Are we talking about this impending cold weather?

[Carrie12345]

I feel a little bit stupid, because my brain did not consider we might have a windchill of -29.  Not sure why.

The puppies don’t mind. The little man does.

[BlsdMama]

13 hours ago, Quill said:

For us: dh is building a fire in the fireplace. We have a generator but we can only run a couple things on it. Dh turned it off for now. 
 

For the chickens: no. I literally bought a new heat bulb yesterday because of the forecast but now it makes no difference. They are shut in their coop but it’s probably twenty degrees in there. 

The chickens will be fine. It’s better they don’t have the heat bulb due to condensation or something I don’t understand well. Chickens cope well with cold. 

[Carol in Cal.]

15 hours ago, MEmama said:

Normally it would be plenty cold out, but weirdly it’s 48 degrees right now (dropping to 15 overnight so in the morning that’ll be a good option. I keep a cooler in the enclosed but uninsulated 3 season porch for this purpose).

A freezer thermometer is a good idea. I’ll look into those for the future.

My trick for the big chest freezer in the basement with Lots Of Stuff in it is to fill a Tupperware with ice cubes and park it near one of the sides.  I look at it after an outage.  I figure the ice cube edges would soften if there was a true thaw.

[fairfarmhand]

So yesterday was…interesting. The well froze up. No idea if it’s damaged or not, guess we’ll find out when things thaw out. We Had to turn on the city water (we can do either, well water goes to the livestock, city water to the house) for the cows. 
then, one of our automatic livestock waterer messed up so we had to thaw that out. 
then my dhs new truck wouldn’t run. We left it outside and we think the diesel gelled because it got so cold. 
our hvac hasn’t been working right and if it doesn’t work well we can’t go out of town Monday and Tuesday because nobody will be here to feed the fire and keep the water in the house from freezing up. 
our electric company is starting rolling blackouts today. The email was in the box this morning.

[Lady Florida.]

6 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Mrs Spy Car took a cute picture of our little angel, Desmond--have I mentioned I'm beginning to grow somewhat attached to this little guy?

He makes me smile. I hope he makes you smile.

Bill

Aw, he's adorable. Cats love Christmas trees! Both of ours love to sleep under the tree.

[Faith-manor]

14 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Does a pellet stove work without electricity? We need an insert for our fireplace and I’m having so much trouble choosing between wood, pellet, and gas. 

Kungfu,

Pellet stoves all require electricity. You could get a generator to run the electric components (the big problem being the auger and you should not run it without the auger working) but you need to think about where you would run the generator which is a safety issue, and where you would store the fuel, how you would store it. Also, one of the biggest issues with pellets is whether or not you have a manufacturer within 400-500 miles of you. As a general rule they get very price unfriendly if they have to be shipped further than that, and in some areas of the country, finding pellets is not easy. Tractor Supply often carries them however, they are rarely a reasonable price if they are being shipped from very far.

Wood, less efficient BTU wise, is the most simple method of back up heat source. Your basic fireplace if used only for emergency and ambience is a good option. If all you were doing was burning wood for something like a 3-4 day storm, a face cord of wood will suffice. A facecord , depending on the region, will run anywhere from $60-$200. You can't burn pine, ever, due to creosote build up, but you could harvest downed hardwoods on state land if you watch for the announcements. Usually it is a limited time, and you would need your own trailer, chain saw, and splitting axe, but this is one way to get free wood. A blower greatly increases circulation and of course that runs off electricity, but I also know folks that have battery back up just for the blower. Consult an expert about the batteries. Off gassing is a thing so you do not want a blower in your living space hooked up to car batteries in your living space. Wood stoves can, if the ducting/ventilation is set up properly, heat an entire house with great efficiency BUT they are of course a lot more expensive, and the installation of all the ductwork, the higher efficiency chimney, etc. is not wallet pleasant.

Corn burners are popular in some midwest states. They are more efficient than wood, but there are draw backs because the sugar molecules crystallize as they burn, and form nuggets of hard nastiness that must be removed often. It is also controversial as an alternative energy source due to the diverting of cornfield production from food and ethanol (I have feelings about ethanol which is a subject for a different day) to heat. It isn't practical either if you do not live in a heavy corn producing state.

Kerosene is the cheap, go to emergency heat source for some folks. Kerosene heaters are way cheaper than having any kind of alternative energy installed in your house. But, and this is super important, the fumes can be dangerous if the area is not super well ventilated, and even then some folks, like myself, are so sensitive that we get pretty much instant migraines as soon as a kerosene heater is powered up. I would not even recommend anyone use a kerosene heater inside a home without a window in the room being left open an inch, and that of course can defeat the purpose entirely. A lot of local folks only use them to heat garages, take the chill off, when doing woodworking or repairing cars in the winter. They are only on intermittently, and in such a large space with non sealing garage doors usually just fine.

Other options, which are really expensive but are long term solutions to having heat and even cooling that is not dependent on the power grid are:

Geothermal - I am a big, big fan of this. It is generally only done for new construction since that is the easy time to do it, but in some instances can be added to an existing home. We have friends who spent the up front pricey ouch dollars when they built their new home, new about 22 years ago, and have never regretted it. While others are paying $200 or so a month IF on natural gas (in this county only two towns have natural gas) or $300-500 a month for propane (worse if on fuel oil), and they pay at worse, and friends pay $60 in electricity per month to run the system. They have just enough solar panels wired to a battery pack, in a closet in the basement to keep those electronics going in the winter when power is down. Geothermal is a sustainable energy source, and of course it keeps their house at a steady 68° all year round so they also do not pay out the nose for cooling.  A closed loop system costs more than an open loop so they went with an open loop and that was their one regret. A closed loop system keeps reusing the same groundwater over and over again, and that water goes through a filtration system so over time all the mineralls are removed. In an open loop system, it just dumps water and then pulls in new water. In terms of water use, it is very efficient, and in our area, we have a ton of groundwater and none of the water is being lost so it is environmentally fine. BUT the water is extremely mineral hard. So at about the 10 year mark, many mechanical components of the system began to wear out due to mineral deposits and erosion. The replacements parts cost them about $2000 and the installation would have been easily that much as well with what geothermal contractors cost in the area (there are not many at all), but friend and my Mark were able to do that work together and save the labor charges.

Solar is the most popular alternative. If coupled with a geothermal system for heat and cooling, it is probably the most environmentally friendly. It is not cheap!! Now that said, if one were only looking to run electrical components of a heating system off grid for power emergencies, probably two or three solar panels from Harbor Freight, and the inverter they carry would get that job done, but you need to be able to do the installation yourself.

Cheap but varying in success depending on how well insulated the house is, and how many are installed, are earth tubes. You can install these yourselves if you want to rent the excavator to do the digging. I highly recommend the excavator.and especially if the frost line in your area is deep because you have to get below that to install the lines. Doing that with a spade is a back ruining thing, like digging a well by hand. You can find YouTube vids on earth tube installation or if you want to see the dirty, fast fix, you can watch the episode of Homestead Rescue on Discovery Channel in which Marty installs this for people who will be living in a ConEx steel container, tiny house in the desert. It is not nearly anything as good as a professional, geothermal system. On the other hand, for a very small investment, a homeowner can make a couple rooms of the house minimally heated, minimally cooled and especially if they go deep with those tubes.

This ends the TED Talk from "Faith's dad owned a heating and cooling business, and grew up heating with a variety of alternative energy options so Pa could show off the house as part of the business and take tax deductions for them and then compelled Faith and her brother to help fetch and stack endless wood piles so when she went to college and later got married thought those days were behind her but her husband had the bright idea to heat the house with in-floor heating run off a wood boiler, and here we go round the mullberry bush again". 😁

 

[Pawz4me]

Despite leaving the water trickling and the cabinet doors open last night we have a frozen pipe to the kitchen sink. Trying to get it unthawed by running a heater, hoping it won't burst. The sun won't get around to that wall for another hour or two, and I don't know how much help that will give anyway.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Pawz4me

[Faith-manor]

Kungfu, I forgot one. Waste oil furnace. Unless you run a lot commercial vehicles who have frequent oil changes, this one is not particularly practical unless you are going to run around area businesses, collect their discarded oil, and then store it for your emergencies, not mention that waste oil furnaces are rather expensive. It works for Mosquito Control in the county west of us. My dad installed their system many years ago, and they rarely ever have to buy any oil to supplement. Very cheap heating doe the county given how many years of use they have for the return on investment. I think it has been going for 25 years ish.

[momto3innc]

28 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Despite leaving the water trickling and the cabinet doors open last night we have a frozen pipe to the kitchen sink. Trying to get it unthawed by running a heater, hoping it won't burst. The sun won't get around to that wall for another hour or two, and I don't know how much help that will give anyway.

We had the same in our bathroom yesterday. My husband took out the drawers, cut a hole in the subfloor, and blew a hairdryer down there directly on the frozen pipe. It thawed really quickly and is still okay today. We were so nervous it would burst! 

[gardenmom5]

Yesterday -dh called the city and asked for  our hill to be sanded.

yesterday morning - we had an ice storm.  We didn't even dare walk up the hill to reach our car parked at the top.   (we started to - black ice, even the sides of the ditch/gravel was so thick with ice you couldn't walk on it.)

last night, it warmed up and started raining - which will make the ice melt relatively quickly.

at 6am - there was a sanding truck/plow. . . . . he refused to come down the hill.  This was AFTER the rain had started, and I had thrown down a few POUNDS of salt.  By this morning, the hill was crunchy slush,  a lot of bare-wet, not slick black ice).  bawk bawk bawk . . . .

Oh well - maybe Christmas gifts will arrive today and I can go to the store. . . 

Edited December 24, 2022 by gardenmom5

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Kungfu,

Pellet stoves all require electricity. You could get a generator to run the electric components (the big problem being the auger and you should not run it without the auger working) but you need to think about where you would run the generator which is a safety issue, and where you would store the fuel, how you would store it. Also, one of the biggest issues with pellets is whether or not you have a manufacturer within 400-500 miles of you. As a general rule they get very price unfriendly if they have to be shipped further than that, and in some areas of the country, finding pellets is not easy. Tractor Supply often carries them however, they are rarely a reasonable price if they are being shipped from very far.

Wood, less efficient BTU wise, is the most simple method of back up heat source. Your basic fireplace if used only for emergency and ambience is a good option. If all you were doing was burning wood for something like a 3-4 day storm, a face cord of wood will suffice. A facecord , depending on the region, will run anywhere from $60-$200. You can't burn pine, ever, due to creosote build up, but you could harvest downed hardwoods on state land if you watch for the announcements. Usually it is a limited time, and you would need your own trailer, chain saw, and splitting axe, but this is one way to get free wood. A blower greatly increases circulation and of course that runs off electricity, but I also know folks that have battery back up just for the blower. Consult an expert about the batteries. Off gassing is a thing so you do not want a blower in your living space hooked up to car batteries in your living space. Wood stoves can, if the ducting/ventilation is set up properly, heat an entire house with great efficiency BUT they are of course a lot more expensive, and the installation of all the ductwork, the higher efficiency chimney, etc. is not wallet pleasant.

Corn burners are popular in some midwest states. They are more efficient than wood, but there are draw backs because the sugar molecules crystallize as they burn, and form nuggets of hard nastiness that must be removed often. It is also controversial as an alternative energy source due to the diverting of cornfield production from food and ethanol (I have feelings about ethanol which is a subject for a different day) to heat. It isn't practical either if you do not live in a heavy corn producing state.

Kerosene is the cheap, go to emergency heat source for some folks. Kerosene heaters are way cheaper than having any kind of alternative energy installed in your house. But, and this is super important, the fumes can be dangerous if the area is not super well ventilated, and even then some folks, like myself, are so sensitive that we get pretty much instant migraines as soon as a kerosene heater is powered up. I would not even recommend anyone use a kerosene heater inside a home without a window in the room being left open an inch, and that of course can defeat the purpose entirely. A lot of local folks only use them to heat garages, take the chill off, when doing woodworking or repairing cars in the winter. They are only on intermittently, and in such a large space with non sealing garage doors usually just fine.

Other options, which are really expensive but are long term solutions to having heat and even cooling that is not dependent on the power grid are:

Geothermal - I am a big, big fan of this. It is generally only done for new construction since that is the easy time to do it, but in some instances can be added to an existing home. We have friends who spent the up front pricey ouch dollars when they built their new home, new about 22 years ago, and have never regretted it. While others are paying $200 or so a month IF on natural gas (in this county only two towns have natural gas) or $300-500 a month for propane (worse if on fuel oil), and they pay at worse, and friends pay $60 in electricity per month to run the system. They have just enough solar panels wired to a battery pack, in a closet in the basement to keep those electronics going in the winter when power is down. Geothermal is a sustainable energy source, and of course it keeps their house at a steady 68° all year round so they also do not pay out the nose for cooling.  A closed loop system costs more than an open loop so they went with an open loop and that was their one regret. A closed loop system keeps reusing the same groundwater over and over again, and that water goes through a filtration system so over time all the mineralls are removed. In an open loop system, it just dumps water and then pulls in new water. In terms of water use, it is very efficient, and in our area, we have a ton of groundwater and none of the water is being lost so it is environmentally fine. BUT the water is extremely mineral hard. So at about the 10 year mark, many mechanical components of the system began to wear out due to mineral deposits and erosion. The replacements parts cost them about $2000 and the installation would have been easily that much as well with what geothermal contractors cost in the area (there are not many at all), but friend and my Mark were able to do that work together and save the labor charges.

Solar is the most popular alternative. If coupled with a geothermal system for heat and cooling, it is probably the most environmentally friendly. It is not cheap!! Now that said, if one were only looking to run electrical components of a heating system off grid for power emergencies, probably two or three solar panels from Harbor Freight, and the inverter they carry would get that job done, but you need to be able to do the installation yourself.

Cheap but varying in success depending on how well insulated the house is, and how many are installed, are earth tubes. You can install these yourselves if you want to rent the excavator to do the digging. I highly recommend the excavator.and especially if the frost line in your area is deep because you have to get below that to install the lines. Doing that with a spade is a back ruining thing, like digging a well by hand. You can find YouTube vids on earth tube installation or if you want to see the dirty, fast fix, you can watch the episode of Homestead Rescue on Discovery Channel in which Marty installs this for people who will be living in a ConEx steel container, tiny house in the desert. It is not nearly anything as good as a professional, geothermal system. On the other hand, for a very small investment, a homeowner can make a couple rooms of the house minimally heated, minimally cooled and especially if they go deep with those tubes.

This ends the TED Talk from "Faith's dad owned a heating and cooling business, and grew up heating with a variety of alternative energy options so Pa could show off the house as part of the business and take tax deductions for them and then compelled Faith and her brother to help fetch and stack endless wood piles so when she went to college and later got married thought those days were behind her but her husband had the bright idea to heat the house with in-floor heating run off a wood boiler, and here we go round the mullberry bush again". 😁

 

That was very thorough.  Thank you for the master class.  I do own a kerosene heater because I was raised to have a back up heat source in case of power outages.  Our power lines are buried so we've never used it.  I guess it's a good idea to keep just-in-case kerosene on hand, but it goes bad eventually. 

You left off converting the open fireplace to gas. 😆

The landscaper I work for sells firewood.  We're in a HCOL area.  Right now a FACE cord of oak is going for $410 and hickory is more.  That's before delivery and stacking.  I could easily schedule a deliver to my house or bring it home 1/4 cord at a time in my van, but even with my discount I'd barely get a 1/2 cord for $200.  We do have a few cords of mixed hardwood available that are true cords, but they don't really move because modern stoves are too small.  I also recently discovered that you can burn bio bricks in a wood stove so now that complicates the decision making process. This indecision, and the fact that every option seems to start at 5k, has led me to putting off updating my open fireplace for a decade.

[KungFuPanda]

13 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

We built this this year. It’s wood. It has a blower to circulate the heat but will still work if power goes out.

This is gorgeous.  My fireplace is just a plain 70's brick number.  I love starting and having fires, but we're not doing it in this weather because we don't want to cool down the rest of the house.😂 Or deal with smoke if we can't get it to draw right away.  Today would be a really tricky day to use an open fireplace with all the wind and cold.  The room that houses the fireplace has been turned into ds's accessible bedroom.  It has two doors to the rest of the house.  Since ds moved in, he likes to keep it closed up for privacy.  This means his room (family room on a slab with no upper level and three exposed sides) has it's own climate.  I'd like to cozy it up more.

Installing a mini-split would probably be the most practical and budget friendly option, but my heart wants a wood burning insert and I can firewood at work with so little effort.

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Kungfu,

Pellet stoves all require electricity. You could get a generator to run the electric components (the big problem being the auger and you should not run it without the auger working) but you need to think about where you would run the generator which is a safety issue, and where you would store the fuel, how you would store it. Also, one of the biggest issues with pellets is whether or not you have a manufacturer within 400-500 miles of you. As a general rule they get very price unfriendly if they have to be shipped further than that, and in some areas of the country, finding pellets is not easy. Tractor Supply often carries them however, they are rarely a reasonable price if they are being shipped from very far.

Wood, less efficient BTU wise, is the most simple method of back up heat source. Your basic fireplace if used only for emergency and ambience is a good option. If all you were doing was burning wood for something like a 3-4 day storm, a face cord of wood will suffice. A facecord , depending on the region, will run anywhere from $60-$200. You can't burn pine, ever, due to creosote build up, but you could harvest downed hardwoods on state land if you watch for the announcements. Usually it is a limited time, and you would need your own trailer, chain saw, and splitting axe, but this is one way to get free wood. A blower greatly increases circulation and of course that runs off electricity, but I also know folks that have battery back up just for the blower. Consult an expert about the batteries. Off gassing is a thing so you do not want a blower in your living space hooked up to car batteries in your living space. Wood stoves can, if the ducting/ventilation is set up properly, heat an entire house with great efficiency BUT they are of course a lot more expensive, and the installation of all the ductwork, the higher efficiency chimney, etc. is not wallet pleasant.

Corn burners are popular in some midwest states. They are more efficient than wood, but there are draw backs because the sugar molecules crystallize as they burn, and form nuggets of hard nastiness that must be removed often. It is also controversial as an alternative energy source due to the diverting of cornfield production from food and ethanol (I have feelings about ethanol which is a subject for a different day) to heat. It isn't practical either if you do not live in a heavy corn producing state.

Kerosene is the cheap, go to emergency heat source for some folks. Kerosene heaters are way cheaper than having any kind of alternative energy installed in your house. But, and this is super important, the fumes can be dangerous if the area is not super well ventilated, and even then some folks, like myself, are so sensitive that we get pretty much instant migraines as soon as a kerosene heater is powered up. I would not even recommend anyone use a kerosene heater inside a home without a window in the room being left open an inch, and that of course can defeat the purpose entirely. A lot of local folks only use them to heat garages, take the chill off, when doing woodworking or repairing cars in the winter. They are only on intermittently, and in such a large space with non sealing garage doors usually just fine.

Other options, which are really expensive but are long term solutions to having heat and even cooling that is not dependent on the power grid are:

Geothermal - I am a big, big fan of this. It is generally only done for new construction since that is the easy time to do it, but in some instances can be added to an existing home. We have friends who spent the up front pricey ouch dollars when they built their new home, new about 22 years ago, and have never regretted it. While others are paying $200 or so a month IF on natural gas (in this county only two towns have natural gas) or $300-500 a month for propane (worse if on fuel oil), and they pay at worse, and friends pay $60 in electricity per month to run the system. They have just enough solar panels wired to a battery pack, in a closet in the basement to keep those electronics going in the winter when power is down. Geothermal is a sustainable energy source, and of course it keeps their house at a steady 68° all year round so they also do not pay out the nose for cooling.  A closed loop system costs more than an open loop so they went with an open loop and that was their one regret. A closed loop system keeps reusing the same groundwater over and over again, and that water goes through a filtration system so over time all the mineralls are removed. In an open loop system, it just dumps water and then pulls in new water. In terms of water use, it is very efficient, and in our area, we have a ton of groundwater and none of the water is being lost so it is environmentally fine. BUT the water is extremely mineral hard. So at about the 10 year mark, many mechanical components of the system began to wear out due to mineral deposits and erosion. The replacements parts cost them about $2000 and the installation would have been easily that much as well with what geothermal contractors cost in the area (there are not many at all), but friend and my Mark were able to do that work together and save the labor charges.

Solar is the most popular alternative. If coupled with a geothermal system for heat and cooling, it is probably the most environmentally friendly. It is not cheap!! Now that said, if one were only looking to run electrical components of a heating system off grid for power emergencies, probably two or three solar panels from Harbor Freight, and the inverter they carry would get that job done, but you need to be able to do the installation yourself.

Cheap but varying in success depending on how well insulated the house is, and how many are installed, are earth tubes. You can install these yourselves if you want to rent the excavator to do the digging. I highly recommend the excavator.and especially if the frost line in your area is deep because you have to get below that to install the lines. Doing that with a spade is a back ruining thing, like digging a well by hand. You can find YouTube vids on earth tube installation or if you want to see the dirty, fast fix, you can watch the episode of Homestead Rescue on Discovery Channel in which Marty installs this for people who will be living in a ConEx steel container, tiny house in the desert. It is not nearly anything as good as a professional, geothermal system. On the other hand, for a very small investment, a homeowner can make a couple rooms of the house minimally heated, minimally cooled and especially if they go deep with those tubes.

This ends the TED Talk from "Faith's dad owned a heating and cooling business, and grew up heating with a variety of alternative energy options so Pa could show off the house as part of the business and take tax deductions for them and then compelled Faith and her brother to help fetch and stack endless wood piles so when she went to college and later got married thought those days were behind her but her husband had the bright idea to heat the house with in-floor heating run off a wood boiler, and here we go round the mullberry bush again". 😁

 

I enjoyed your TED Talk.

It reminded me of a very interesting experience (to me anyway) I had back in the 90's. I was working on a documentary film up in Carmel, CA and became very friendly with the head of the local cultural heritage society. His family had been in the area for generations.

One weekend, my wife and I were invited out to his family's ranch out in Big Sur. Beautiful place. Much of the ranch home was constructed by his father--an artist--during the 20's and 30s.

One wing of the house (the "later" wing) was built during the Depression.

What was fascinating to me was that this wing of the house had pipes imbedded into the smooth concrete flooring and hot water could be circulated through the pipes to provide radiant heat when it was cold--as it was when we were there.

I'd never experienced anything like this before. Such gentle warmth. So cozy.

I understand that modern versions of radiant floor heating have been developed. I was surprised this old ranch had such innovations back in the 30's. 

Bill

 

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I nderstand that modern versions of radiant floor heating have been developed. I was surprised this old ranch had such innovations back in the 30's. 

Well... the Romans already had underfloor heating... we've forgotten about many amenities of civilization 

[Spy Car]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Well... the Romans already had underfloor heating... we've forgotten about many amenities of civilization 

Somewhere in my memory bank I recall that the Romans would plant some of the more delicate plants that they imported from conquered territories in beds that were built above bricked in compost heaps (that could be replenished from access doorways below). The natural heat would evidently keep the plants warm.

I believe Victorian gardeners in England used the same technique.

Underfloor heating does make a lot of sense. 

Other than that, what have the Romans ever done for us? 

Bill

 

  

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

That was very thorough.  Thank you for the master class.  I do own a kerosene heater because I was raised to have a back up heat source in case of power outages.  Our power lines are buried so we've never used it.  I guess it's a good idea to keep just-in-case kerosene on hand, but it goes bad eventually. 

You left off converting the open fireplace to gas. 😆

The landscaper I work for sells firewood.  We're in a HCOL area.  Right now a FACE cord of oak is going for $410 and hickory is more.  That's before delivery and stacking.  I could easily schedule a deliver to my house or bring it home 1/4 cord at a time in my van, but even with my discount I'd barely get a 1/2 cord for $200.  We do have a few cords of mixed hardwood available that are true cords, but they don't really move because modern stoves are too small.  I also recently discovered that you can burn bio bricks in a wood stove so now that complicates the decision making process. This indecision, and the fact that every option seems to start at 5k, has led me to putting off updating my open fireplace for a decade.

$410???? Faint. Frankly, that is INSANE price gouging.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Faith-manor

[KungFuPanda]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

$410???? Faint. Frankly, that is INSANE price gouging.

It’s the going rate here. Firewood needs to be seasoned a year or two ahead. That seasoned wood was burned at a MUCH higher rate once so many people stayed home for the pandemic. Supplies of seasoned wood are low and a lot of people are still working remotely here. Also, there’s a labor shortage and a truck driver shortage. You have to pay people to cut and load the supply trucks. We have to pay men to stack that wood once it arrives on site. Then we have to pay them to stack it into premeasured racks to sell and to load onto trucks for delivery. We pay them to deliver it, and we pay office staff and overhead. My boss is scrambling to source wood to replenish our supplies and he’s protecting his vendor sources like it’s a state secret. These sources are coming from another state. We deliver in the Baltimore-DC area and business has been insane since late fall. The profit margin has not changed with the price increase last year. 
 

I get that wood is free if you do everything yourself, but if you’re paying people to bring it to you, or even if you pick up on site, that’s just what it costs right now in this area. This is absolutely not price gouging. 

[prairiewindmomma]

A note on the solar comment made above….winter generation numbers can be terrible, depending on your latitude. Yesterday, during the storms, we generated only .1kWh the entire day. .1 kWh. We used 40.5kWh. The day previously, before the storm, we generated only 6.1 kWh due to our latitude.
 

Solar is not a viable winter alternative energy in our area. 

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I enjoyed your TED Talk.

It reminded me of a very interesting experience (to me anyway) I had back in the 90's. I was working on a documentary film up in Carmel, CA and became very friendly with the head of the local cultural heritage society. His family had been in the area for generations.

One weekend, my wife and I were invited out to his family's ranch out in Big Sur. Beautiful place. Much of the ranch home was constructed by his father--an artist--during the 20's and 30s.

One wing of the house (the "later" wing) was built during the Depression.

What was fascinating to me was that this wing of the house had pipes imbedded into the smooth concrete flooring and hot water could be circulated through the pipes to provide radiant heat when it was cold--as it was when we were there.

I'd never experienced anything like this before. Such gentle warmth. So cozy.

I understand that modern versions of radiant floor heating have been developed. I was surprised this old ranch had such innovations back in the 30's. 

Bill

 

I experienced this heating for the first time in Korea in the early 90s.  At first it felt weird, like the floor was alive, but I would dearly LOVE to have it throughout my home.  Radiant heating would be nice too, but I don't know that I'd live long enough to recover the cost of putting it everywhere.

Edited December 24, 2022 by KungFuPanda

[Pawz4me]

It took a long time, but we finally got our pipe unthawed. Now if we can keep it that way . . 

[popmom]

@Quillhow are y'all faring today?

 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, popmom said:

@Quillhow are y'all faring today?

 

We got power back around 10, 23 hours after it went out. However, dh has been busy all day trying to fix issues. The coils on the heat system froze in two places so our second floor is still very cold. He’s a handy guy, fortunately, but we don’t know yet whether any of these pipes split. 
 

My chickens survived. We camped in the basement last night. The cat (who is typically outside) spent the night meandering between myself, dh and Ds. I even spotted the Blue Collar Guy giving her a pet several times. 😁

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

We got power back around 10, 23 hours after it went out. However, dh has been busy all day trying to fix issues. The coils on the heat system froze in two places so our second floor is still very cold. He’s a handy guy, fortunately, but we don’t know yet whether any of these pipes split. 
 

My chickens survived. We camped in the basement last night. The cat (who is typically outside) spent the night meandering between myself, dh and Ds. I even spotted the Blue Collar Guy giving her a pet several times. 😁

Oh man. I’m glad you got your power back. I was debating if the basement would be warmer or a tent in the living room if it came to it. 
 

Im glad your chickens pulled through. 🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓

[Mom_to3]

just came back to check on people. Glad the chicken survived! Not so glad to hear of the frozen pipe issues even when keeping the water dripping...

[Indigo Blue]

Well, by the end of this week, we will be up to 70 degrees for a high. How nice! I can’t believe it. It was 9 degrees just two days ago. 

[Just Kate]

We’ve been trying to get home for Christmas for three days now. Flew from Punta Cana yesterday (Christmas day) to Baltimore. Our connecting flight to Columbus didn’t happen (they never cancelled it, but the flight is gone) and no more flights to Columbus on Southwest until Wednesday!!! They booked us on a flight to Cincinnati and we have a car rented when we get there. Will have to drive to Columbus airport to get our car and then 3 hours to our home in WV. Oh and we just learned that at this time, there are only 2 flight attendants assigned to our flight and they need 3. Hoping one more shows up somewhere. 
 

So we slept in the airport for the first time. We are tired and exhausted, but have met people who have been stuck in airports since Friday. This is such a mess!!!

[MEmama]

5 minutes ago, Just Kate said:

We’ve been trying to get home for Christmas for three days now. Flew from Punta Cana yesterday (Christmas day) to Baltimore. Our connecting flight to Columbus didn’t happen (they never cancelled it, but the flight is gone) and no more flights to Columbus on Southwest until Wednesday!!! They booked us on a flight to Cincinnati and we have a car rented when we get there. Will have to drive to Columbus airport to get our car and then 3 hours to our home in WV. Oh and we just learned that at this time, there are only 2 flight attendants assigned to our flight and they need 3. Hoping one more shows up somewhere. 
 

So we slept in the airport for the first time. We are tired and exhausted, but have met people who have been stuck in airports since Friday. This is such a mess!!!

I hope the rest of your trip  is uneventful! 

[Starr]

We are still stuck in travels since Wednesday night. Pray our flight gets out today! I wouldn’t mind so much if you just knew you were stuck but it’s the endless hours trying to get info, and going back and forth to the airport only to have another flight cancelled. We did find some fun, good food and lovely church services tucked in between the chaos. 

[math teacher]

2 hours ago, Just Kate said:

We’ve been trying to get home for Christmas for three days now. Flew from Punta Cana yesterday (Christmas day) to Baltimore. Our connecting flight to Columbus didn’t happen (they never cancelled it, but the flight is gone) and no more flights to Columbus on Southwest until Wednesday!!! They booked us on a flight to Cincinnati and we have a car rented when we get there. Will have to drive to Columbus airport to get our car and then 3 hours to our home in WV. Oh and we just learned that at this time, there are only 2 flight attendants assigned to our flight and they need 3. Hoping one more shows up somewhere. 
 

So we slept in the airport for the first time. We are tired and exhausted, but have met people who have been stuck in airports since Friday. This is such a mess!!!

Praying you get home today.

[math teacher]

50 minutes ago, Starr said:

We are still stuck in travels since Wednesday night. Pray our flight gets out today! I wouldn’t mind so much if you just knew you were stuck but it’s the endless hours trying to get info, and going back and forth to the airport only to have another flight cancelled. We did find some fun, good food and lovely church services tucked in between the chaos. 

Praying you get home today and glad you have had some rays of sunshine.

[ScoutTN]

Our church had sprinkler pipes burst in both the sanctuary and the fellowship hall. Dh spent some time yesterday evening helping with clean up. 
 
Temps are much higher here this morning, mid to high 20’s, but now it’s snowing, which will paralyze our city. No getting out today. Tomorrow is supposed to be low 40’s and sunny. 
 

Re: firewood prices. I just got a half rick of seasoned, mixed hardwood delivered and stacked in my back yard, for about $170. Some pieces are too large for my fireplace and neither of my guys have the skill or the tools to split/cut it smaller. I will find someone who can later. We have enough to get us through mid-February, when it begins to begin to be spring here. 

[KungFuPanda]

2 hours ago, Just Kate said:

We’ve been trying to get home for Christmas for three days now. Flew from Punta Cana yesterday (Christmas day) to Baltimore. Our connecting flight to Columbus didn’t happen (they never cancelled it, but the flight is gone) and no more flights to Columbus on Southwest until Wednesday!!! They booked us on a flight to Cincinnati and we have a car rented when we get there. Will have to drive to Columbus airport to get our car and then 3 hours to our home in WV. Oh and we just learned that at this time, there are only 2 flight attendants assigned to our flight and they need 3. Hoping one more shows up somewhere. 
 

So we slept in the airport for the first time. We are tired and exhausted, but have met people who have been stuck in airports since Friday. This is such a mess!!!

Did you consider driving from Baltimore?  I’ve done the Baltimore to WV drive a lot and that seems less daunting than adding another flight. It takes about 5 hours to get all the way down to Raleigh County. 

[Pawz4me]

Amidst all the bad, a good story --

Ten South Korean tourists were stranded in a blizzard near Buffalo (Yahoo News)

[JennyD]

Hope everyone makes it home soon!

We had a pipe burst late Saturday evening.  It was a pipe leading to an outdoor spigot -- DH had wrapped it and left it dripping, but I guess it wasn't enough.  The dog and I were startled by very loud grinding sound and then shortly thereafter we lost water pressure.  We could hear the water rushing out, so DH turned off the water to the house.  I called the (very expensive) 24/7 plumbing and heating service but of course seeing as it was Christmas Eve, nobody was available, so I had resigned myself to us not having water until Monday or Tuesday.   

But!  We are very good friends with another family in which the husband does a lot of contracting work, and they lived in our house for much of 2020 so he knows it very well. My kids were over there playing and when i called to say we'd be late for dinner and BTW could my boys take showers there?  he came rushing over with a toolbox of plumbing supplies, DOVE into our crawl space, cut the pipe, capped it, turned the water back on, and less than an hour later we were all at their house eating latkes.

Feeling very grateful for friends, and a warm house. and running water! 

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

Temps are much higher here this morning, mid to high 20’s, but now it’s snowing, which will paralyze our city. No getting out today.

I had no idea it was supposed to snow today!  Scratching all of those errands off my list -- not going out in this.

 

[ScoutTN]

4 minutes ago, JennyD said:

Hope everyone makes it home soon!

We had a pipe burst late Saturday evening.  It was a pipe leading to an outdoor spigot -- DH had wrapped it and left it dripping, but I guess it wasn't enough.  The dog and I were startled by very loud grinding sound and then shortly thereafter we lost water pressure.  We could hear the water rushing out, so DH turned off the water to the house.  I called the (very expensive) 24/7 plumbing and heating service but of course seeing as it was Christmas Eve, nobody was available, so I had resigned myself to us not having water until Monday or Tuesday.   

But!  We are very good friends with another family in which the husband does a lot of contracting work, and they lived in our house for much of 2020 so he knows it very well. My kids were over there playing and when i called to say we'd be late for dinner and BTW could my boys take showers there?  he came rushing over with a toolbox of plumbing supplies, DOVE into our crawl space, cut the pipe, capped it, turned the water back on, and less than an hour later we were all at their house eating latkes.

Feeling very grateful for friends, and a warm house. and running water! 

I had no idea it was supposed to snow today!  Scratching all of those errands off my list -- not going out in this.

 

Hooray for helpful and skilled friends!! Glad to know y’all are back.

[stephanier.1765]

I can't believe, here in FL, we are going to have our third hard freeze tonight. It's supposed to be back up to 79 by Sunday.

[JennyD]

16 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Hooray for helpful and skilled friends!! Glad to know y’all are back.

Yes, we got back Tuesday, before all the crazy weather.  It is so good to be home!

[JennyD]

10 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

back up to 79 by Sunday.

Whoa!

[mommyoffive]

3 hours ago, Starr said:

We are still stuck in travels since Wednesday night. Pray our flight gets out today! I wouldn’t mind so much if you just knew you were stuck but it’s the endless hours trying to get info, and going back and forth to the airport only to have another flight cancelled. We did find some fun, good food and lovely church services tucked in between the chaos. 

What a nightmare.  I hope you get home soon.

[mommyoffive]

4 hours ago, Just Kate said:

We’ve been trying to get home for Christmas for three days now. Flew from Punta Cana yesterday (Christmas day) to Baltimore. Our connecting flight to Columbus didn’t happen (they never cancelled it, but the flight is gone) and no more flights to Columbus on Southwest until Wednesday!!! They booked us on a flight to Cincinnati and we have a car rented when we get there. Will have to drive to Columbus airport to get our car and then 3 hours to our home in WV. Oh and we just learned that at this time, there are only 2 flight attendants assigned to our flight and they need 3. Hoping one more shows up somewhere. 
 

So we slept in the airport for the first time. We are tired and exhausted, but have met people who have been stuck in airports since Friday. This is such a mess!!!

Oh man I am so sorry.  I hope you get home soon.

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I can't believe, here in FL, we are going to have our third hard freeze tonight. It's supposed to be back up to 79 by Sunday.

I'm further south and possibly closer the coast than you but it's still cold. Our high will only be 56 today but tonight will be warmer than previous nights at 44. New Year's Eve day the forecast high is 83 and we'll start the new year with a high of 79. Lows will be in the 60s.

We had a sort of White Christmas. There was sleet here on Christmas morning. I noticed it was cloudy but didn't think it was cloudy enough for precipitation. Now I wish I had gone outside to look. I'm in Viera, one of the towns mentioned in the article below.

If you scroll to the second video about halfway down - look for the dog - you'll see Floridians being Floridians over frozen water falling from the sky. The little girl is so happy! 😂

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-snow-christmas/42338895

Edited December 26, 2022 by Lady Florida.

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

Amidst all the bad, a good story --

Ten South Korean tourists were stranded in a blizzard near Buffalo (Yahoo News)

What a sweet story. Thank you for sharing that.

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Did you consider driving from Baltimore?  I’ve done the Baltimore to WV drive a lot and that seems less daunting than adding another flight. It takes about 5 hours to get all the way down to Raleigh County. 

I think she said the family car is in the Columbus airport.

@Just Kate, I hope your trip ends well and quickly! Cincinnati to Columbus to WV is a bit boring but not usually onerous. It definitely gets prettier in WV! 

[*Jessica*]

8 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Amidst all the bad, a good story --

Ten South Korean tourists were stranded in a blizzard near Buffalo (Yahoo News)

Buffalo, the city of good neighbors.  There are stories like this all over our news. ❤️

[KungFuPanda]

8 hours ago, kbutton said:

I think she said the family car is in the Columbus airport.

@Just Kate, I hope your trip ends well and quickly! Cincinnati to Columbus to WV is a bit boring but not usually onerous. It definitely gets prettier in WV! 

Ok, that makes more sense.  I thought a rental was waiting in Columbus.  I'm in full holiday and weather drama recovery mode and cannot read.

[Starr]

Made it to ds in Newfoundland today. And I didn't mind sitting on the plane for an hour while waiting for luggage to be put on the plane! Everything arrived and we can have a belated Christmas and some moose burgers. 

[pinball]

9 hours ago, Starr said:

Made it to ds in Newfoundland today. And I didn't mind sitting on the plane for an hour while waiting for luggage to be put on the plane! Everything arrived and we can have a belated Christmas and some moose burgers. 

I’m glad you made it!

what do mooseburgers taste like?

can you share why your son is in Newfoundland?

[fairfarmhand]

We did end up able to leave town to visit family overnight, despite more snow in the Nashville area. However our departure from home was delayed for over an hour when we discovered that one of our automatic livestock waterers was completely frozen up yesterday. Thawing if entails heating gallons and gallons of water on the stove and hauling it out to the barnyard. Did something to my back during this fiasco yesterday and I’m now twingy when I move

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

We did end up able to leave town to visit family overnight, despite more snow in the Nashville area. However our departure from home was delayed for over an hour when we discovered that one of our automatic livestock waterers was completely frozen up yesterday. Thawing if entails heating gallons and gallons of water on the stove and hauling it out to the barnyard. Did something to my back during this fiasco yesterday and I’m now twingy when I move

Ugh. I hope you can rest and that your back is not a serious injury.

[kbutton]

On 12/26/2022 at 6:49 PM, *Jessica* said:

Buffalo, the city of good neighbors.  There are stories like this all over our news. ❤️

I think that general part of NY is accustomed to helping in bad weather. As a kid, my mom was stranded in NY once in a snowstorm and sheltered in a church overnight.