Oscars/Will Smith

[gardenmom5]

13 minutes ago, Katy said:

Jada looked stunning, medical condition or not.

The skirt was a bit . . . overly generous (I can't imagine how heavy that was to drag around.).  But I really appreciated she was modestly dressed.  It was much more flattering than those who dressed like strippers leaving little to the imagination.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

The fact he did NOT submit this joke for pre-vetting to the academy (as required) implies he KNEW it was over the line.

Yeah—-I kind of agree that says it all. Maybe it was a last minute random joke, but I always thought nothing was really random at the Oscars.

[YaelAldrich]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, but you could seriously get arrested! ☹️

I have never gotten into a fight in my life so I know my limits. But I know when people insult my people my hackles get raised. If it happened on an international stage that might be the thing that would do me in. 

[Lisa]

CR's comment was totally out of line and should apologize to JPS.  However, WS reaction was also wrong and under other conditions, should have been escorted out of the Oscars for assault. 

I'm so glad I don't watch the Oscars. The rude and crude jokes are so inappropriate and not funny.

[catz]

6 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

The skirt was a bit . . . overly generous (I can't imagine how heavy that was to drag around.).  But I really appreciated she was modestly dressed.  It was much more flattering than those who dressed like strippers leaving little to the imagination.

Calling women who don't dress to your modesty standards as "dressed like strippers" is perfectly ok though?  Ok then.  

[Corraleno]

2 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

🤷🏽‍♀️ I'm hotheaded and very loyal to those who are loyal to me. 

There are a million ways you can express love and loyalty, and support someone who has been hurt, without resorting to violence. Trying to frame lack of self control as something righteous and honorable and a normal expression of love and loyalty may make the perpetrator feel better, but it rarely helps the actual victim and often makes things worse.

 

[teachermom2834]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

There are a million ways you can express love and loyalty, and support someone who has been hurt, without resorting to violence. Trying to frame lack of self control as something righteous and honorable and a normal expression of love and loyalty may make the perpetrator feel better, but it rarely helps the actual victim and often makes things worse.

 

Right. Like Will Smith could have had self restraint in the moment and then made an actual powerful statement in his speech and then refused to ever support any project CR was in or allow CR to have any involvement in any of his projects going forward, etc. Like there are other ways of showing loyalty.

If someone insults my kid I don’t need to hit them or even make a shouting scene to be loyal. I have had people lie about my kids or question their integrity and spread rumors, etc. I have behaved in ways that were loyal to them that never involved making a scene. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by teachermom2834

[YaelAldrich]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

There are a million ways you can express love and loyalty, and support someone who has been hurt, without resorting to violence. Trying to frame lack of self control as something righteous and honorable and a normal expression of love and loyalty may make the perpetrator feel better, but it rarely helps the actual victim and often makes things worse.

 

Absolutely true. It isn't logical, rather it hearkens back to a different (not better) time. But I'm not going to say I think physical reactions are never off the table. You may feel differently.

[Corraleno]

8 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

Absolutely true. It isn't logical, rather it hearkens back to a different (not better) time. But I'm not going to say I think physical reactions are never off the table. You may feel differently.

As someone who endured years of sexual abuse because I knew my father would literally kill the person involved if he found out, I don't think violent retribution is ever justified. My childhood would have been very different if I'd been able to trust him to do the right thing instead of the thing that would make him feel better. So basically I sacrificed myself to keep two families from being destroyed because I knew my father would think violence was not only justified but "honorable" and expected. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Corraleno

[SKL]

To the comment that this is the workplace and not the place for dramatic reactions - well that's news to me.  I thought it was THE place for celebrities to fly all their flags and make their statements.

Also, the idea that the Oscars are where we expect to see adults acting like we want our kids to act?  Seriously.  There's a reason we don't watch that show.

I'm not saying I liked seeing the slap.  I do think the "joke" deserved some response in the moment, because yes, that WAS the time and place to make a "statement."  Really not sure what WS's response should have been.  Maybe getting up and walking out so Chris Rock could stuff it when it was time for the best actor award acceptance.

I don't understand why anyone ever watches that crap.

[Kassia]

@Corraleno I'm so sorry.  

[gardenmom5]

19 minutes ago, catz said:

Calling women who don't dress to your modesty standards as "dressed like strippers" is perfectly ok though?  Ok then.  

Did you see how some of the women were dressed? would you dress that way?   There were a lot of dresses I wouldn't wear due to my "modesty standards" that I don't consider looking like something a stripper would wear.   

some of them . . .  I've seen bikinis that were more modest.

[Forget-Me-Not]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

It’s like Will Smith saw his opportunity to look like the knight in shining armor, protecting his wife… on camera in the middle of the Academy Awards, so he could be sure the whole world would see it. 

 

Yes. The phrase “white knighting” came to mind. I watched the unedited video and it was weird because he was shown laughing and then suddenly he’s on the stage walking toward Chris Rock to hit him. I too am not sure the whole thing wasn’t staged, except it really took the dignity away from his win. 

Bad behavior on both sides. 

[Forget-Me-Not]

58 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

So I absolutely love my family and I’d do anything for my kids including jump in front of the proverbial train for them. But I wouldn’t punch someone who insulted them. 
 

Does that make me weak? I love them less? This whole thing just doesn’t even compute for me. 

Yeah, same. I think my reaction would be more along the lines of “OK we’re done here” and walking away. 
 

Not really the same situation, but I’ve mentioned here before that my very mild-mannered, non-confrontational DH stood up for me during a scary childbirth experience when I could not advocate for myself (literally, I was under general anesthesia). He had a show-down with a doctor over what I wanted—and he prevailed. No violence required. That experience means more to me than any Will Smith “don’t disrespect my woman” kind of theatrics.  I couldn’t speak, but HE could and, more importantly, I had been heard by him and he knew what I needed and wanted. I can’t imagine him ever hitting someone for me, but I know he has my back 1000%. 

[Janeway]

Hollywood was whining about their lack of attention at the Oscars. I really think there is a good chance that this was staged to get attention.

[Sneezyone]

38 minutes ago, SKL said:

To the comment that this is the workplace and not the place for dramatic reactions - well that's news to me.  I thought it was THE place for celebrities to fly all their flags and make their statements.

Also, the idea that the Oscars are where we expect to see adults acting like we want our kids to act?  Seriously.  There's a reason we don't watch that show.

I'm not saying I liked seeing the slap.  I do think the "joke" deserved some response in the moment, because yes, that WAS the time and place to make a "statement."  Really not sure what WS's response should have been.  Maybe getting up and walking out so Chris Rock could stuff it when it was time for the best actor award acceptance.

I don't understand why anyone ever watches that crap.

Umm, no. It is, in fact, a workplace (there are tons of people working, including the honorees). On camera dramatic reactions are expected in the entertainment industry, not a physical assault.

[mathmarm]

Will Smith committed assault on International TV and received no repercussions because he's rich and famous. Boo!

Jada Pinkett Smith is a celebrity. They trade their privacy for fame and fortune--I was unaware that she had alopecia, but apparently she's been public with it for some time. Wonderful for her and for the people who are comforted by her public experiences with this disease.

JPS does not have a terminal illness. She's not caused pain from her disease.

Tens of thousands of women choose to be bald as a cultural or fashion choice and add in the women who cut their hair for non-health related reasons as well as the women who have alopecia and it's not like she's exactly alone with having a bald head. As a celebrity, being talked about (positively and negatively) is a part of the price you pay for your fame and fortune.

[rebcoola]

I think their is a good chance it was staged but if not I'm sure more like it will be staged given the attention it's getting.

[bolt.]

I think Chris Rock should press charges.

There is a weird acceptability on screen not only in real-life events like the Oscars, but also in TV drama and movies, that people (or characters) can just lose their tempers and hit someone who offends them in public. I'm thinking of many trope-y scenes of bar fights between men and the slapping of bad boyfriends -- to name only a few.

There are never consequences. The person who gets hit is never really hurt (even if they are knocked unconscious) and nobody ever mentions that this is a crime and you can go to jail. The worst that ever happens is that they get thrown out of the bar.

I was watching TV with my teen daughter with a bar fight scene involving a 'good' character. He threw a punch in response to an insult. I said to my daughter, "Oh, no! He's going to get arrested, and miss his big exam tomorrow. He may fail the semester. He could even be sentenced to significant jail time." And she said, "No, the other guy deserved it. Our guy won't get in any trouble. You heard what the other guy said."

She really thought that it wasn't against the law to assault someone if 'they deserved it' and you had witnesses. I had to explain that assault is assault no matter who insults you.

I wonder how many people really grow up thinking that when it feels like 'the right thing to do' -- throwing a punch (or a slap) is totally okay. I'd love to see a storyline where a character really does have his/her life totally derailed for entering a fight like that. That's why I hope Chris Rock shows the world that in real life you can't hit people just because they are mouthy about your wife.

[lynn]

I just figured out what this was about.  My 2¢  Will Smith should have had an off camera conversation with Chris Rock.  It would have been much classier.

[Terabith]

My favorite post I've seen about this is from Father Nathan Monk:  

A few years back, I found a lump in my chest. When I decided to talk about what was happening publicly, it was terrifying. Somehow that made it real. A friend of mine reached out to me right after that because her cancer had just come back, and she was starting chemo again. She was losing her hair for the second time. We met for drinks to talk about it. She told me about how she didn’t feel beautiful anymore. About how she wasn’t sure she could do this again. “Maybe it’s time to just check out.” Before I could even respond, an acquaintance of ours walks up and says, “Hey, baldy!” And rubbed her head.

 

We both laughed. It wasn’t funny.

 

I suppose we laughed because that’s what a lot of us do in uncomfortable situations where we don’t know how to stand up for ourselves.

 

A few weeks later, right before I got my test results, I was out with Tashina and some friends. They were trying to cheer me up and convince me everything would be okay. A friend of ours walked up and made a joke about how he would probably come to my funeral if the cancer got me. Then he said, “if for nothing else to hit on your newly single wife.”

 

In both of these situations, I saw red. My heart was pounding outside of my chest. I could feel my hands turning into a fist. I wanted to do something violent.

 

I didn’t.

 

But the feeling was there. There have been countless situations where people have made jokes at someone else’s expense that made me want to react. Sometimes I’ve stood up against those people with words. Sometimes I’ve sat silently with fear or anger.

 

Tonight, as I watched Will Smith go through those range of emotions, I felt a lot of empathy. He laughed at the joke that wasn’t funny. I’ve been there. He made s choice that I can understand, even if I don’t think it was the right choice. I think it would have been better if he had used his words instead of his fist. I think it would have made a bigger impact if he had found just the exact right words to say, but he didn’t.

 

However, I think if we are all honest with ourselves, we’ve had moments where that’s what we wanted to do, even if we didn’t.

 

Jada has been open about her health struggles for a long time now. It’s been part of the public discourse, and the joke Chris Rock made was in poor taste. It was ableist and cruel. It was the definition of punching down, and that makes it not a joke but bullying.

 

As I’ve watched some of the public discourse happening, I think there are a lot of things at play here all at once.

 

First, two things can be wrong at the same time. Will Smiths' reaction was wrong, but so was Chris Rock’s joke. We can’t lose sight of how wrong what Chris said was just because his wrong was met with another wrong.

 

When that acquaintance made that joke to my friend, my fear was that she would think this was the final justification for her to choose to no longer life here with us anymore. That was what we were discussing, and then she was met with a cruel joke. At that moment, I was so angry. I made a different choice than Will did at that moment. But we have no idea the conversations that have happened privately between them. Life is not always easy.

 

I also think racism is playing a huge part in this. I’ve seen so many comments that have made me cringe. You could see it on Denzel Washington’s face; you could see it in Tyler Perry’s reaction, and in the words of Diddy. They knew instantly how public perception was going to be. And I’m seeing it in many of the comments.

 

I’ve also seen a lot of comments justifying hatred toward Will and Jada because they are open about the non-monogamous structure of their relationship. As if that has anything to do with this? How consenting adults construct their relationship is none of anyone's business. It certainly doesn’t justify cruelty.

 

Ultimately, they are famous, and people love to imagine that with fame comes entitlement to their existence. But they are just human beings dealing with pain like everyone else.

 

I wish Will had just used his words, but he didn’t. He will have to deal with the consequences of that, just as Chris must face the consequences of his cruel joke. But I’m really sad to see some of the exterior conversations happening around this unfortunate situation. I think everyone should take a real step back and realize how cringe it is when you use phrases like, “he should have acted like a professional.” Professionalism has been weaponized against the Black community for a long time. I’ve seen folks make commentary about what Jada should do to conceal her baldness. Let me tell you, right now, Black women's hair has been weaponized too. So let’s just not.

 

Two wrongs happened tonight.

 

Chris Rock made a cruel and ableist joke.

 

Will Smith chose hands instead of words.

 

But one wouldn’t have happened without the other. Be mindful that even though Jada and Will are rich and powerful and will likely never hear your words about them. But someone you love who is struggling with their body does near you. They hear you loud and clear. And maybe it’s time the whole world gets a metaphorical slap to the face as a reminder that punching down is never okay.

 

In moments like this, I’m reminded of the Terry Pratchett quote, “Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire; it's bullying.”

 

[SKL]

4 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I think Chris Rock should press charges.

There is a weird acceptability on screen not only in real-life events like the Oscars, but also in TV drama and movies, that people (or characters) can just lose their tempers and hit someone who offends them in public. I'm thinking of many trope-y scenes of bar fights between men and the slapping of bad boyfriends -- to name only a few.

There are never consequences. The person who gets hit is never really hurt (even if they are knocked unconscious) and nobody ever mentions that this is a crime and you can go to jail. The worst that ever happens is that they get thrown out of the bar.

I was watching TV with my teen daughter with a bar fight scene involving a 'good' character. He threw a punch in response to an insult. I said to my daughter, "Oh, no! He's going to get arrested, and miss his big exam tomorrow. He may fail the semester. He could even be sentenced to significant jail time." And she said, "No, the other guy deserved it. Our guy won't get in any trouble. You heard what the other guy said."

She really thought that it wasn't against the law to assault someone if 'they deserved it' and you had witnesses. I had to explain that assault is assault no matter who insults you.

I wonder how many people really grow up thinking that when it feels like 'the right thing to do' -- throwing a punch (or a slap) is totally okay. I'd love to see a storyline where a character really does have his/her life totally derailed for entering a fight like that. That's why I hope Chris Rock shows the world that in real life you can't hit people just because they are mouthy about your wife.

All that is true, but it's also true that in real life, you don't publicly insult a person who's sitting right there and get cheers and big bucks in return.  Unless you're a rich celebrity.

[Sneezyone]

Can someone pls. explain to me how being compared to a TOTALLY SHREDDED Demi Moore in GI Jane is an insult? Make it make sense.

[Amy in NH]

Will Smith wrote in his autobiography about how he was traumatized as a child by his father's regular abuse of his mother. He has felt like "a coward" since his inaction as a 9-year-old watching his mother spit blood after his father punched her in the head.  Perhaps standing up to someone bullying his wife has allowed him to gain more self-respect.

Chris Rock made a documentary about the importance of hair to black women.  He should have known better.

There is a lot more history and context than many people recognize.  Will's reaction may not have been right, but it was righteous.

 

[mathmarm]

Chris Rock said something that (with context) was in poor taste.

Will Smith did something that was illegal.

[Sneezyone]

14 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

Will Smith wrote in his autobiography about how he was traumatized as a child by his father's regular abuse of his mother. He has felt like "a coward" since his inaction as a 9-year-old watching his mother spit blood after his father punched her in the head.  Perhaps standing up to someone bullying his wife has allowed him to gain more self-respect.

Chris Rock made a documentary about the importance of hair to black women.  He should have known better.

There is a lot more history and context than many people recognize.  Will's reaction may not have been right, but it was righteous.

 

I have two close alopecia sufferers in my family and had no idea Jada had the disease. People in Hollywood go bald all the time as a fashion statement/choice. I get that for her it may have been more sensitive/touchy but that doesn't mean the joke was off color or insensitive. Her spouse was up for a major award and they have been VERY public with their troubles. I feel like people have lost all sense of perspective here. JPS was compared to a fellow a-list celebrity in a movie for which she was declared a badass and we're supposed to see that as an insult? In his feelings about other slights (related to his wife's public behavior), WS gets up and open-handed slaps another man (I still think that was a total ***** move...like...you can't even throw a solid punch?) and that's righteous? No. Just no.

I feel VERY sorry for WS. I think he's a closet traditionalist who loves and married a 'heathen' with very different values and expectations related to sexuality and relationships. That's hard. They need to work through that privately, and, for the love of God, get their kids into therapy. Their son's reaction was abhorrent.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Sneezyone

[ktgrok]

27 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

Will Smith wrote in his autobiography about how he was traumatized as a child by his father's regular abuse of his mother. He has felt like "a coward" since his inaction as a 9-year-old watching his mother spit blood after his father punched her in the head.  Perhaps standing up to someone bullying his wife has allowed him to gain more self-respect.

Chris Rock made a documentary about the importance of hair to black women.  He should have known better.

There is a lot more history and context than many people recognize.  Will's reaction may not have been right, but it was righteous.

 

Righteous would have been demanding CR make an apology, then and there, to "take it back". MAYBE if at that point it escalated, and WS said something about taking it back or he'll "make him" And THEN it came to blows, maybe. 

This was losing one's temper in the moment. And as somehow who has a bad temper, who has lashed out like that, I can promise you it NEVER increased my self respect. Losing control doesn't make someone feel more confident. It just doesn't. Because you know you didn't REALLY act out of righteousness, you did it because you lost control of your temper. Losing control is not manly, it is not mature, and it doesn't make you feel good...it never feels good to feel out of control. 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

 People in Hollywood go bald all the time as a fashion statement/choice. I get that for her it may have been more sensitive/touchy but that doesn't mean the joke was off color or insensitive. Her spouse was up for a major award and they have been VERY public with their troubles. I feel like people have lost all sense of perspective here. JPS was compared to a fellow a-list celebrity in a movie for which she was declared a badass and we're supposed to see that as an insult?

Agree. I think claims that he was bullying her or mocking her disability or whatever are off base — he compared a beautiful actress with a buzz cut to another beautiful actress with a buzz cut, it's not like he compared her to Telly Savalas or Don Rickles or something. And she literally posted a photo of herself on Instagram last summer after she shaved her head with a caption saying "my 50’s are bout to be divinely lit with this shed!" and another photo of her and Willow together with both of their heads shaved. If Jada was upset by the joke, she could have approached Chris Rock later and told him it was a stupid, hurtful thing to say and demanded an apology — which she likely would have gotten. 

The idea that physically assaulting someone for telling a bad joke is ever remotely justified, let alone "righteous," is just bizarre to me. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Corraleno
typos

[sassenach]

The range of responses to this are really interesting to me. I really didn't expect it.

 

 

[Terabith]

I also finding myself wondering how much of Will Smith's response is because assaulting someone for saying something mean about a loved one is what many of the characters that he has played would have done?  

I think Smith was 100% wrong.  

And yet, my heart kinda cheered when he did it.  I'm not proud of that reaction, but it was there.  

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I also finding myself wondering how much of Will Smith's response is because assaulting someone for saying something mean about a loved one is what many of the characters that he has played would have done?  

I think Smith was 100% wrong.  

And yet, my heart kinda cheered when he did it.  I'm not proud of that reaction, but it was there.  

He’s an actor and, imo, was playacting outrage. I can’t think of any man I know who’d smirk and openhanded slap someone in a rage. That’s right up there with pulling hair and scratching at the eyes. It’s a reluctant move, not a confident, angered/enraged one. After watching it last night, I woke DH to tell him b/c I knew it would be a topic of office conversation today, lol. His response, “I blame her.” I LOLed. Obvs, she didn’t smack Chris Rock. DHs sleepy point was that WS feels emasculated and ineffectual and this was his breaking point. Still 110% wrong.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Sneezyone

[J-rap]

I know a couple people who are maybe like Chris Rock (who obviously I don't know at all) and words just come out of their mouths without thinking.  Hopefully he'll learn from that experience.  I assume he didn't know about her medical condition.  I can understand WS's strong feeling of anger and wanting to defend his wife, but going up on the stage and slapping him was not the answer.  

Of course more and more people these days seem to think violence is a justified answer to situations that make them feel angry.  It isn't, and it's getting tiring.

WS had other options that would have been a much better statement.

[Sneezyone]

23 minutes ago, sassenach said:

The range of responses to this are really interesting to me. I really didn't expect it.

 

 

I’m not surprised, just horrified, lol.

[Grace Hopper]

6 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I think Will Smith was overcompensating for the fact that he had laughed out loud at the joke before he realized that Jada was upset. So to me it looked less like a spontaneous expression of anger and more like a contrived performance to cover his ass with Jada for laughing at the joke to begin with. Not that assaulting someone in response to an insult is ever okay, even if it's genuine and spontaneous. But the fact that it seemed so artificial made it even worse IMO.

+1

[Melissa Louise]

Dreading reading this thread in case it's like the rest of the virtual world and full of b/s about violence being ok if 'love made me do it' aka the abusers charter. 

CRs joke was tasteless. Even more tasteless was a whole room of people later standing up and applauding WS. 

The whole debacle was foul, but if forced to choose who to be in a room with, I'd take the guy who runs his mouth, but responded to physical violence with words and not hands.

JC, this is what I teach in kindergarten. 

The footage of WS back in his chair, jaw clenched, telling CR to get *my* wife's name etc was genuinely triggering for me, and no doubt many other women who've been around that type of controlled ego-rage, and I don't usually find myself triggered on that way. 

Anyway, maybe I just won't read this thread, because I can't bear to read any more WS apologia. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Melissa Louise

[Forget-Me-Not]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

Can someone pls. explain to me how being compared to a TOTALLY SHREDDED Demi Moore in GI Jane is an insult? Make it make sense.

Because his joke referenced her hair loss, not her muscle tone. 

[Grace Hopper]

5 hours ago, Storygirl said:

I watched it live, and it was shocking. The audience was clearly shocked, and the producers blocked out some of what happened by muting the sound and replacing the video with a logo temporarily. I thought Chris Rock's joke was in poor taste, but that is what he does and digs at the the stars are common. I'm not defending that, because I don't like it, but searing jokes are often part of the annual awards show. Would I want my loved ones' disabilities to be the target of a joke on national television? Absolutely not. But Will Smith striking the comedian was way out of line. I was sorry that he won the Oscar after that, and that his behavior upstaged what should have been a career-high moment for him. Always from now on, the incident will be remembered whenever his achievement is discussed.

it kind of has me wondering if from here on out the Academy will have the second place winner in a back up envelope, in case someone pulls another similar shenanigan. I personally believe Smith should’ve been made to forfeit his award.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

Because his joke referenced her hair loss, not her muscle tone. 

It didn’t reference hair loss at all, it referenced her ‘look’ which many women wear by choice, and not in a negative way. It’s a look that JPS, herself, seemed to ‘own’ and embrace. A friend of mine recently shaved her head for locs of love. She’d be thrilled to be compared to GI Jane.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

Ok, like an idiot I read it. 

Thank you @Catwoman for being a voice of sanity. Thank you @Corraleno for sharing your experience and giving insight into how 'honor' harms victims of abuse. Thank you WTMers who don't romanticize  violence. 

 

 

[Corraleno]

4 minutes ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

Because his joke referenced her hair loss, not her muscle tone. 

The joke referenced her haircut, and compared it to the haircut worn by another actress in a successful movie. Willow has the same haircut, and if Jada did it for the same reason her daughter did, it would have been a nonissue. Chris Rock obviously did not think through the fact that the reason for the haircut (assuming he knew the reason) might be a sensitive issue for her, despite posting photos of herself saying she was rocking the look. That was thoughtless and insensitive of him — but then again that's basically how he makes his living. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

All that is true, but it's also true that in real life, you don't publicly insult a person who's sitting right there and get cheers and big bucks in return.  Unless you're a rich celebrity.

Maybe not always big bucks, but certainly our culture often rewards those who publicly insult others. Just check out school board meetings, city council meetings, etc. during the pandemic. Lots of applause and even standing ovations for people attacking public health officials, scientists, doctors, etc.

Also, talking about hitting and violence against those you disagree with is now obviously acceptable for high level politicians to do. It’s not that long ago that I think most people would have found it unacceptable and maybe even shocking, but that all disappeared six years ago and now it’s pretty much anything goes. There really doesn’t appear to be any generally agreed upon standard of behavior anymore and most people don’t seem to have a solid line in the sand as to what they will or will not accept. Lying is fine. Cheating others is fine. Mocking is fine. Encouraging violence is fine. Being rude and disrespectful is fine. And not just fine, but a good section of our population actively cheers such behavior. The ends justify any means.

[Ausmumof3]

The whole thing was weird and to be honest I wondered if it was scripted. I watched it closely a second time and Will’s laugh seemed more of an uncomfortable laugh than an amused laugh and her face was pretty clearly devastated. Slapping is definitely not the answer though. That was just weird and makes me wonder if there’s something more going on. That said I wonder if peoples reaction would be the same if she had cancer or something. 
 

DH reassured me that he’d do the same thing. Ugh… please don’t! It’s almost always going to make things worse.

I also hate celebrities getting away with stuff that normal people wouldn’t.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Stacia]

Stand-up comedians often roast people (& by its nature, roasting hits people where it hurts) & have plenty of cringe-y moments in their onstage careers. I think many stand-up comedians like pushing those buttons as they feed off audience reactions both good & bad. If you don't like it (meaning their content which can sometimes be offensive), don't watch shows with stand-up comedians. Was CR an a@# for making that particular joke about that particular person? Maybe. Was he doing his expected job for this particular occasion? Yes. (Also, please note, even when slapped, CR did not retaliate or escalate in any way. He didn't even put his hands up to defend himself.)

WS, otoh, was wrong. Physically assaulting someone because you don't like what they said is wrong. He could have booed & encouraged others to boo also (which is a reaction some audiences give to stand-up comedians). He & JPS could have walked out. Or, if he felt strongly about addressing it that very moment, he could have gone up on stage, taking the microphone from CR, saying something along the lines of, "It's 2022 & not funny to make a joke based on someone's appearance due to a medical condition. It's a low blow & completely uncalled for. I challenge you to go volunteer for x number of hours in the month of April with people facing medical challenges. If you do so, I'll donate x amount of money to the group(s) you volunteered with, and double that amount to any group that Jada chooses." Or something similar. Basically he could & should have chosen to turn it around & point out (a) that we should be better at this point in human history & (b) actually model behavior to emulate. Sadly, he instead chose violence. He could have also stood back & let JPS take the lead. She's a strong, empowered woman. If she's willing to roll her eyes & maybe make a statement later, then WS should have followed her lead.

[Katy]

There is no chance Chris Rock is going to file charges. They apparently spoke backstage and made up immediately. 

Calling his next comedy tour “B*tchslapped!” and continuing to make fun of them both for the next few years IS a distinct possibility though. 

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Can someone pls. explain to me how being compared to a TOTALLY SHREDDED Demi Moore in GI Jane is an insult? Make it make sense.

From reading this whole conversation, I think I honestly can't make someone understand who hasn't been there or doesn't instinctively get it. Having cousins with alopeica doesn't mean you get it, honestly. And it's not going to be experienced the same by every person. When my kid lost their hair, they handled it like a champion. Everyone was super impressed with how unaffected they were. They weren't there when it was actually happening though and my kid would never have shown their inner feelings about it to anyone other than me. They are tough on the outside. It was a traumatic experience that no one else realized was traumatic.

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

I have two close alopecia sufferers in my family and had no idea Jada had the disease. People in Hollywood go bald all the time as a fashion statement/choice. I get that for her it may have been more sensitive/touchy but that doesn't mean the joke was off color or insensitive. Her spouse was up for a major award and they have been VERY public with their troubles. I feel like people have lost all sense of perspective here. JPS was compared to a fellow a-list celebrity in a movie for which she was declared a badass and we're supposed to see that as an insult?

When it's not a choice, it's entirely different. Going back to the cancer analogy. If someone loses their hair due to chemo and is sad about it, we don't say "suck it up buttercup" because lots of other people choose to go bald as a fashion statement. The slap was totally wrong and I'm not defending that, but I'm disturbed that people are adamant that someone with a medical condition that is very physically apparent to others shouldn't feel insulted to have that used as the butt of a joke.

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

 Chris Rock obviously did not think through the fact that the reason for the haircut (assuming he knew the reason) might be a sensitive issue for her, despite posting photos of herself saying she was rocking the look.

This point has been brought up several times. The fact that she posted photos saying she was going to "rock this shed" does not mean she is happy about having this condition and having little other choice but to embrace it or forever be trying to cover it up. She didn't have a choice to move forward with hair. She made the choice to be brave about it and not hide it any longer. That doesn't make it not still a sensitive topic that she has likely shed a good deal of tears over.

[Sneezyone]

22 minutes ago, KSera said:

From reading this whole conversation, I think I honestly can't make someone understand who hasn't been there or doesn't instinctively get it. Having cousins with alopeica doesn't mean you get it, honestly. And it's not going to be experienced the same by every person. When my kid lost their hair, they handled it like a champion. Everyone was super impressed with how unaffected they were. They weren't there when it was actually happening though and my kid would never have shown their inner feelings about it to anyone other than me. They are tough on the outside. It was a traumatic experience that no one else realized was traumatic.

When it's not a choice, it's entirely different. Going back to the cancer analogy. If someone loses their hair due to chemo and is sad about it, we don't say "suck it up buttercup" because lots of other people choose to go bald as a fashion statement. The slap was totally wrong and I'm not defending that, but I'm disturbed that people are adamant that someone with a medical condition that is very physically apparent to others shouldn't feel insulted to have that used as the butt of a joke.

This point has been brought up several times. The fact that she posted photos saying she was going to "rock this shed" does not mean she is happy about having this condition and having little other choice but to embrace it or forever be trying to cover it up. She didn't have a choice to move forward with hair. She made the choice to be brave about it and not hide it any longer. That doesn't make it not still a sensitive topic that she has likely shed a good deal of tears over.

It does suggest that she’s open to talking about it and is interested in making lemons out of lemonade. Joking about a new professional opportunity that might come from it is in the same spirit. Neither she nor her condition were the butt of the joke.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

I mean what if a person was open about having autism and CR got up at the Oscars and said "are you gonna play Rain Man 2?"

Edited March 28, 2022 by SKL

[catz]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

I mean what if a person was open about having autism and CR got up at the Oscars and said "are you gonna play Rain Man 2?"

That would also be inappropriate and it also wouldn't be an excuse to provoke violence or lay hands on someone.  

[Sneezyone]

12 minutes ago, SKL said:

I mean what if a person was open about having autism and CR got up at the Oscars and said "are you gonna play Rain Man 2?"

Same thing, assuming the individual was sanguine and OPEN about it. Every personal quirk, including Jennifer Hudson’s weight, makes one more or less suitable for a role. We haven’t, I must repeat, even heard from JPS about her feelings on the matter. So, yeah, an eye roll was it.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Catwoman]

37 minutes ago, KSera said:

From reading this whole conversation, I think I honestly can't make someone understand who hasn't been there or doesn't instinctively get it. Having cousins with alopeica doesn't mean you get it, honestly. And it's not going to be experienced the same by every person. When my kid lost their hair, they handled it like a champion. Everyone was super impressed with how unaffected they were. They weren't there when it was actually happening though and my kid would never have shown their inner feelings about it to anyone other than me. They are tough on the outside. It was a traumatic experience that no one else realized was traumatic.

When it's not a choice, it's entirely different. Going back to the cancer analogy. If someone loses their hair due to chemo and is sad about it, we don't say "suck it up buttercup" because lots of other people choose to go bald as a fashion statement. The slap was totally wrong and I'm not defending that, but I'm disturbed that people are adamant that someone with a medical condition that is very physically apparent to others shouldn't feel insulted to have that used as the butt of a joke.

This point has been brought up several times. The fact that she posted photos saying she was going to "rock this shed" does not mean she is happy about having this condition and having little other choice but to embrace it or forever be trying to cover it up. She didn't have a choice to move forward with hair. She made the choice to be brave about it and not hide it any longer. That doesn't make it not still a sensitive topic that she has likely shed a good deal of tears over.

But the thing is, Jada Smith chose to go public about it, and she apparently made it very clear that she was ok with it, and that she was proud of her new look, so it seems a little disingenuous to act like the victim in this situation, where it seems that Chris Rock didn’t even know about her condition, and his joke was a one-liner in the middle of a monologue that wasn’t even focused on her alone. 

And as I said earlier, if Jada is truly that self-conscious about her hair loss, she certainly has all of the money in the world to have beautiful, comfortable wigs made for her to wear to public events.

The issue here is that she wasn’t even the one who confronted Chris Rock. We don’t even really know how she felt about the joke. It may have shocked her, but it seemed like she was going to let it go. It was her idiot husband who decided to grandstand and behave like a caveman. The only reason any of us is talking about this right now is because Will Smith made it into a big issue. If he had let it go, and perhaps spoken with Chris Rock privately after the ceremony, the joke would have been immediately forgotten by everyone but the Smiths.