Weekend discussion topic: jumping tiers for CV vax UPDATED: appointments releasing in ten minutes!

[Ginevra]

What do we think about people “fudging” a bit to get vaxxed for COVID when their tier is not offered yet? I was initially irritated by someone I knew who got a vax through a college pass he has because he works in a trade on campus. So, he is tier-jumping. 
However! Lest you think I’m acting superior, I also became aware that “first line judicial support” members can get vaxxed now. It’s surely debatable if that would include a legal assistant, but I can’t say I will pass up the opportunity if I can get through on appointments. (So far, no appointments open.)

Just wondering what the Hive thinks about jumping tiers. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Quill

[Katy]

I don’t think your college worker is tier jumping. He’s working on campus, he’s more likely to be exposed.
 

Go ahead and get the vaccine as soon as you’re eligible. You aren’t responsible for determining the order. 

[Roadrunner]

I think in couple of months they will be begging people to take a vaccine. We will have a ton of supply and fewer takers. 

[TheReader]

I have mixed feelings about this. 

A county near me (a 2-ish hour drive...) has excess vaccine, so opened up all tiers, and you do not have to be a resident of their county to sign up (since these are federally distributed vaccines).  We signed up (although the website is glitchy, so I'm not 100% confident the appts are really there).  

On the one hand-- we are within the open tiers at that location. On the other hand -- in our own county, we'd be tier jumping (some of us). 

At this point, with distribution increasing so rapidly, it bothers me way less than it would have/did in the beginning (ex: a friend works at a hospital, but is/has been/will continue working from home, and even when friend is "on campus" at the hospital, has zero patient contact at all.......yet, friend's hospital made the vaccine available to all employees, period, even when the state designation for that tier was healthcare workers with patient contact; that irked me, because at the same time, my grandma could not find the vaccine anywhere, even though she's 85 and owns an art gallery so is interacting with the public daily.....).

So, early days when people in the correct tier couldn't find the vaccine w/o searching seemingly zillions of websites, calling around, etc., waiting weeks to get called.......I would not have signed my family up in the other county before first making sure people I knew in the "right" tier were signed up ahead of us. 

These days, everyone I know who is in the "right" tiers, is already vaccinated or halfway there (first dose, waiting on 2nd).  Or is refusing to get it, but has had the chance.  So at this point, taking advantage (not lying, but utilizing an appt at a county with excess that has opened their distribution to all tiers) of an opportunity to get it, even though for most of my family it's "not their turn" -- we feel pretty guilt free about that. (and are sharing the info with folks local who may be willing to drive). 

Similarly, those in the right tiers now (at least by us) can get an appt easily -- the day after it was announced that teachers were eligible, I was able to sign up through CVS, for a location only about 20 mins from me. My mom who had been waiting on her city list, but not the county list, enrolled with the county and signed up through CVS, got an appt with CVS and an email from the county just moments later (whereas, when my grandma signed up with the county a few weeks ago, she didn't hear back for a few days).

So.....at this point, it seems like not too long before the next tiers will open, and so not nearly as irksome as it would have been in the early days of distribution. 

[maize]

I don't think people should lie to get the vaccine, but I'm fine with people who borderline fit a legitimate category getting it. I think drawing tight boundaries around some categories is more likely to hurt people who really are in the intended group.

My tier just opened here and I have an appointment for Monday, but I've also started calling local pharmacies near the end of the scheduled vaccination day to see of they have any leftover doses, hoping to get a family member in.

 

 

 

[Laura Corin]

I would be upset to hear about it.

It would be hard to do here though: only health/social  care workers are eligible by profession,  and I  think vaccination is happening in workplaces. Otherwise it's  doctor-certified fragility or simple age, and people are invited based on GP lists. I think the only category that you could fudge would be unpaid carer, but I  think a doctor would register that too - I received free flu jabs under that category when Mum lived with us. 

[Ailaena]

I think I said this elsewhere, but people are doing it here often because they don’t check ID or verify your tier.  I do not begrudge people who are tier jumping. Not even a bit annoyed.

However, I have had three appointments that I could not bring myself to go to (even though I spend time around unmasked kids) so I gave them to people who were officially qualified.  What a stupid thing for me to be all guilty about 😕

My son’s violin teacher mentioned she heard some talk show saying that people should not feel morally guilty for line jumping because everybody needs to be vaccinated ASAP and nearly everybody who IS line jumping feels like they are exposed more than they should be. 

[Pawz4me]

13 minutes ago, maize said:

I don't think people should lie to get the vaccine, but I'm fine with people who borderline fit a legitimate category getting it.

 

I agree. Many of the guidelines seem very fuzzy to me.

What really burns me are people who are flat out lying in order to jump the line. Or people who have minimal risk factors inflating those to jump ahead of people are really, truly high risk. It seems that a lot of people I know think if they've ever had a bad cold that puts them in the high risk category. And yet my DH, and so many of the patients on the cancer board I belong to--people who are truly, unarguably at very high risk--can't get a vaccine. That infuriates me if I think about it much. As long as it's at least fuzzy I'm trying to be okay with it. A lot of the guidelines don't make sense to me, but I realize I'm not a public health expert, and there have to be some guidelines even if they aren't perfect.

[teachermom2834]

Where we are it just opened up to anyone 16+ with any comorbidities. This is so many people. They have already done teachers and front line workers. They announced last week, I think, that all nursing homes in the state are 100% vaccinated (I assume that means those who want it) and visitation is opening back up.  At this point that is such a wide number of people that I don't have any issue with the fuzzy qualifiers getting it. I feel like the people that really need it have had the opportunity. 

I wouldn't have felt that way in the beginning but I do at this point. I'm going to start trying to make an appointment this week. I qualify because I have a BMI over 30. While I am clearly overweight, I am actually otherwise super healthy and strong. I am most anxious about getting the vaccine because the people in my life who I feel are very at risk (my dad and some elderly friends) don't want the vaccine. Getting it will make me feel more comfortable seeing them. I know they can still get Covid anywhere and from anyone (even possibly me) but I can't make them take the vaccine. At this point, feeling somewhat confident that I am not likely the one passing it to them is going to be the best I can do. I feel like the more people that can get and do get it will make those older folks who are unwilling to get the vaccine safer. 

I can't make my dad get the vaccine but I'm not going to never see him again. So my family will get vaxxed and have peace.

 

[Katy]

We have a family member who is a pharmacist in a different state & encouraged DH to drive over & get vaccinated. They have more vaccines available than local people are interested, so anyone in any federal essential worker field from any state is welcome to come. They live near the opposite corner of a neighboring state, but I take it because the area is conservative not many people believe it’s a real thing at all, let alone something to vaccinate for. 

[Soror]

I think it is morally repugnant to lie to get the vaccine jumping ahead of those that are actually qualify. I feel it is murkier signing up to get it when you technically qualify but have less risk factors than others. Locally I think supply will be outpacing demand in the not so distant future so it will be a moot discussion. I live in a conservative area- obviously this is a positive for me in that I was able to get the vaccine due to excess supply at an event- but has been a big negative throughout the pandemic in the response to the pandemic (or mostly lack of response). 

I do feel for those in charge deciding who gets a shot, there are so many different factors to weigh. I don't think any one response is the only fair option. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, teachermom2834 said:

Where we are it just opened up to anyone 16+ with any comorbidities. This is so many people. They have already done teachers and front line workers. They announced last week, I think, that all nursing homes in the state are 100% vaccinated (I assume that means those who want it) and visitation is opening back up.  At this point that is such a wide number of people that I don't have any issue with the fuzzy qualifiers getting it. I feel like the people that really need it have had the opportunity. 

I wouldn't have felt that way in the beginning but I do at this point. I'm going to start trying to make an appointment this week. I qualify because I have a BMI over 30. While I am clearly overweight, I am actually otherwise super healthy and strong. I am most anxious about getting the vaccine because the people in my life who I feel are very at risk (my dad and some elderly friends) don't want the vaccine. Getting it will make me feel more comfortable seeing them. I know they can still get Covid anywhere and from anyone (even possibly me) but I can't make them take the vaccine. At this point, feeling somewhat confident that I am not likely the one passing it to them is going to be the best I can do. I feel like the more people that can get and do get it will make those older folks who are unwilling to get the vaccine safer. 

I can't make my dad get the vaccine but I'm not going to never see him again. So my family will get vaxxed and have peace.

 

I am in that same boat with my very high risk parents. It is part of the reason I want it sooner than later. 

[AmandaVT]

I'm not ok with the people dressing up as little old ladies to jump the line. Or the really rich dude who flew into rural Canada and pretended to be helping the remote villagers to jump the line.

I am ok with anyone that qualifies, even in a less direct way, like campus worker or you, working in a law office. I think states are trying to make things as orderly as possible (maybe not RI because they're a mess) while trying to get people vaccinated as quickly as possible. I didn't mind assistants to occupational therapists getting vaccinated even though they're all mostly working remote because the more people that get vaccinated, the quicker this will be over. 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Katy said:

We have a family member who is a pharmacist in a different state & encouraged DH to drive over & get vaccinated. They have more vaccines available than local people are interested, so anyone in any federal essential worker field from any state is welcome to come. They live near the opposite corner of a neighboring state, but I take it because the area is conservative not many people believe it’s a real thing at all, let alone something to vaccinate for. 

I also thought about doing this because neighboring DC seems more organized than MD. I dont know if they are checking licenses, though. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Quill
Typo

[City Mouse]

I was uncomfortable when it was suggested to me that I lie about pre-existing conditions on the state registration website in order to be eligible for a specific vaccination event. Lucky for me, I didn’t need to do that.

I don’t see anything wrong with traveling out of your area to get vaccinated in a location with no restrictions. The vaccine is only good for a set amount of time once taken our of cold storage. I would much rather that it all get used instead of wasting doses to adhere to set guidelines.

[edelweiss]

I definitely think that there are some line jumpers who are so morally wrong, while others are a bit of a grey area for me.  

I think I mentioned this somewhere else on this board, but my BIL is a doctor.  So, he legitimately got the vaccine a couple of months ago when they first came out.  He then lied about his mother and my mother working in his office, so that they could get the vaccine too.  I wasn't really upset about that because they were in an eligible age group.  He just made it easier for them by being able to set up the appointments for them rather than them having to find an appointment somewhere.  HOWEVER... he also said that my 49 year old sister with no co-morbitities worked in his office (she doesn't), so that she could get the vaccine.  AND... he said that my perfectly healthy 16 year old niece also works in his office (she doesn't), so that she could get it.  I honestly have no respect for my sister and BIL at all.  I shouldn't be surprised because they have always been very selfish, only-in-it-for-themselves types of people, but I honestly couldn't believe that they even took it as far as having my niece vaccinated. S 

Meanwhile... my husband's 84 year old aunt hasn't been vaccinated yet.  Sigh...

[Danae]

I think anyone who qualifies, even “technically qualifies, but” should get vaccinated as soon as they can.  
 

And while I don’t think anyone should lie to get it, the liars and cheaters might actually be helping, in that they make the vaccine look like a good and valuable thing and might tip some borderline not-sure people into the yes column.  It won’t be long before willingness rather than supply is going to be the limiting factor in progress toward population-level immunity.

[Ali in OR]

10 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Since were discussing it, can I get yall's opinion?  In Georgia, our phase 1B opens Monday.  I decided not to try for it, but it feels like I could and not be considered an awful person, but idk.   
Phase 1B allows parents who have children with chronic illnesses (diabetes is one listed) to be eligible.  My T1D 'child' is 19.  He lives here, but I'm not exactly his "caretaker", unless he gets sick and then I am.   I do cook his meals several times a week, obviously we live in the same home, I clean common areas (not his room), but I don't consider that to be hands-on.    Technically, I guess I could check that box and be eligible.  But at the same time, there's guilt, ykwim?    He's an adult, not a 4yo.   But at the same time, if I get sick, there's a chance he'll get it.  Although now that dh had it in this little house (less than 1200sqft) and none of us got sick, I don't know that ds's chance is exactly high.  He does work out in public, wears a mask, etc.  anyway, I've talked myself out of it again now, lol.  But I'll leave this, because I think it illustrates why people may 'tier skip' but also justify it, without being total a-holes, ykwim?   I'm not looking at blatant, ridiculous tier-skipping, just the normal 'do i fit in this box or not, but maybe I do...' kind of thing.  

Somewhat similar case here. My 23 yo is severely disabled. Our strategy to keep her safe has been to just keep her at home (she can't mask). I was surprised when her county caseworker called in early January to tell us that our state put disabled people at a very high priority level (just after healthcare workers and people in long-term care facilities). AND the safest thing for them is to make sure that those who live with them or care for them get vaccinated as well. So our whole family (except college kid who is back on campus) got our first shots in mid-January. My healthy 18 yo was vaccinated before seniors in Oregon. While I can't say I would have placed us that high on the priority list, we definitely took advantage of it. And even though disabled dd still stays home (masks required everywhere here), it does keep her safer as the rest of us who go out won't be bringing home illness. So in your case, I would be willing to check the box, not because you're a caretaker for your son, but because the healthiest thing for him is to have a little herd immunity around him, a cocoon of vaccinated people. That's the recognized view of my state that included families and caregivers with disabled people (I'm so happy to live here!)

[AmandaVT]

24 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Since were discussing it, can I get yall's opinion?  In Georgia, our phase 1B opens Monday.  I decided not to try for it, but it feels like I could and not be considered an awful person, but idk.   
Phase 1B allows parents who have children with chronic illnesses (diabetes is one listed) to be eligible.  My T1D 'child' is 19.  He lives here, but I'm not exactly his "caretaker", unless he gets sick and then I am.   I do cook his meals several times a week, obviously we live in the same home, I clean common areas (not his room), but I don't consider that to be hands-on.    Technically, I guess I could check that box and be eligible.  But at the same time, there's guilt, ykwim?    He's an adult, not a 4yo.   But at the same time, if I get sick, there's a chance he'll get it.  Although now that dh had it in this little house (less than 1200sqft) and none of us got sick, I don't know that ds's chance is exactly high.  He does work out in public, wears a mask, etc.  anyway, I've talked myself out of it again now, lol.  But I'll leave this, because I think it illustrates why people may 'tier skip' but also justify it, without being total a-holes, ykwim?   I'm not looking at blatant, ridiculous tier-skipping, just the normal 'do i fit in this box or not, but maybe I do...' kind of thing.  

I'd sign up. If he gets sick, he'll be at a higher risk of severe infection right? It's an extra layer of protection for him. Is he eligible too? 

[SKL]

No line jumping via fraud, of course.

But to save unused vaccines at the end of the day, if there are no other takers, I am in favor.

If they are vaxing campus students without any special requirements, then I don't see why a trade guy should be excluded if he technically qualifies.  If he didn't qualify, then why was he so eager to get the vax early?  Does he have special considerations such as a very at-risk family member?  Morally, it might be right even if he used a little white lie to get in.

I don't think legal assistant is what they mean by front line judicial support, unless you work in the courtroom or directly with people who are going through judicial process [I assume they mean defendants and similar].  If you are able to reliably distance yourself from people in your job, then I don't think they mean this for you.

[SKL]

30 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Since were discussing it, can I get yall's opinion?  In Georgia, our phase 1B opens Monday.  I decided not to try for it, but it feels like I could and not be considered an awful person, but idk.   
Phase 1B allows parents who have children with chronic illnesses (diabetes is one listed) to be eligible.  My T1D 'child' is 19.  He lives here, but I'm not exactly his "caretaker", unless he gets sick and then I am.   I do cook his meals several times a week, obviously we live in the same home, I clean common areas (not his room), but I don't consider that to be hands-on.    Technically, I guess I could check that box and be eligible.  But at the same time, there's guilt, ykwim?    He's an adult, not a 4yo.   But at the same time, if I get sick, there's a chance he'll get it.  Although now that dh had it in this little house (less than 1200sqft) and none of us got sick, I don't know that ds's chance is exactly high.  He does work out in public, wears a mask, etc.  anyway, I've talked myself out of it again now, lol.  But I'll leave this, because I think it illustrates why people may 'tier skip' but also justify it, without being total a-holes, ykwim?   I'm not looking at blatant, ridiculous tier-skipping, just the normal 'do i fit in this box or not, but maybe I do...' kind of thing.  

I think you are probably technically eligible, but if the vax is in high demand where you live, personally I'd defer for parents who have to do a lot more hands-on care.  They have to be breathing on their kids whether they want to or not.

[catz]

Thatboyofmine, I think living with a diabetic if that falls into the tier is totally fine.  I know 19 year olds are technically adults.  But as the parent of a 20 year old, I am still definitely parenting that one.  If he needed to be released from the hospital you would be the designated caretaker.  

I know high numbers needs to be vaccinated before we are going to start to step out of this mess and logically I just want them rolling them out as fast as possible.  That said, I am super jealous of those in my demographic who have been vaccinated.  AND I can't figure out how they are doing it.

In my state, they are doing health care workers, age 65+, pre-k to grade 12 educators and child care, long term care residents.  That's it.  Our governor said we wern't moving on to our next phase until 70%+of seniors were vaccinated.  Over 90% of our covid deaths have been that senior bracket, so that actually makes sense to me.  We are now over 50% of that demographic. Yesterday someone my age who I know who has been working at home since covid began got vaccinated at a site  that was advertised 65+ only.  Another friend my age got vaccinated and said it was because her mom lives in a nursing home.  Well DH and I each have an elderly parent that lives alone that got vaccinated in the same time frame.  DH and I in our 50's with troubling family history.  My dad died of heart disease caused by a viral infection.  I don't see how we will get it before May/June?  I know people who've crossed state lines.  

I also don't have a lot of patience for the "what about me?" crew especially if they are someone who can be primarily just be home.  We all want out.  We all want a vaccine.  I really see the merits of just working backwards through ages.  That said, I am all in favor of the last minute call people in to use up vaccines for the day system.  I absolutely do not want to see vaccines wasted.

I do wonder how compliance and demand plays into it by area.  I know we have high compliance in our metro and high demand.  My 75 year old mother with multiple comorbidities got her first vax yesterday.  My 89  year old FIL got his 2nd this week.

[MEmama]

4 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I think in couple of months they will be begging people to take a vaccine. We will have a ton of supply and fewer takers. 

Well I envy everyone for whom this is true!

My state just changed the tiers to strictly age based (since then they’ve added teachers and school support staff). My high risk kid just went from getting vaccinated this month to maybe July? I’m just hopeful he can get it before he starts university, since I assume it will be a requirement. DH and I still have to wait at least a month or two, respectively, which of course doesn’t help DS at all. 

My sense is that in most of the country they will be begging people to get vaccinated because so many people will refuse to. 🤬

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

Well I envy everyone for whom this is true!

My state just changed the tiers to strictly age based (since then they’ve added teachers and school support staff). My high risk kid just went from getting vaccinated this month to maybe July? I’m just hopeful he can get it before he starts university, since I assume it will be a requirement. DH and I still have to wait at least a month or two, respectively, which of course doesn’t help DS at all. 

My sense is that in most of the country they will be begging people to get vaccinated because so many people will refuse to. 🤬

Which state? I thought you were in CA?

I was strictly speculating based on the number of doses that will become available (saw a graph at CNN) and the percentage of people who are willing to vaccinate. 
 

I really believe prioritizing based on age and preexisting conditions is the only way to do this. Mortality statistics show the overwhelming majority of death are elderly and/or preexisting conditions. 
I am sorry 😞 

[MEmama]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

Which state? I thought you were in CA?

I was strictly speculating based on the number of doses that will become available (saw a graph at CNN) and the percentage of people who are willing to vaccinate. 
 

I really believe prioritizing based on age and preexisting conditions is the only way to do this. Mortality statistics show the overwhelming majority of death are elderly and/or preexisting conditions. 
I am sorry 😞 

I’m in Maine. Overall I think compliance is terrific here, as is generally true throughout New England, but we all know that isn’t universal in this country. 
 

I agree that age is a significant factor in vaccine prioritisation, although I think refusing vaccines to high risk groups is a terrible mistake (not only because 2 of 3 of us in my family fall into that group). 
 

I hope it’s true the country will be overrun with vaccines in the next couple of months, but I have a very hard time seeing it. I’d love to be proven wrong. 🙂 

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

I’m in Maine. Overall I think compliance is terrific here, as is generally true throughout New England, but we all know that isn’t universal in this country. 
 

I agree that age is a significant factor in vaccine prioritisation, although I think refusing vaccines to high risk groups is a terrible mistake (not only because 2 of 3 of us in my family fall into that group). 
 

I hope it’s true the country will be overrun with vaccines in the next couple of months, but I have a very hard time seeing it. I’d love to be proven wrong. 🙂 

CDC specifically said to prioritize elderly and people with preexisting conditions. I really don’t know why states can’t honor that. I am sorry. 

[Lanny]

@QuillInteresting topic. I only know what I've read on the web site of the largest newspaper in the city of Cali, here in Colombia.  That can get one 5 years. In the slammer. Prisons here are not as comfy as in the USA.  I doubt that anyone has gone to prison here so far but it's a possibility.

Here they are going by groups. They are doing Group 1 now which includes Medical/Health professionals and those 80+   Here in our Department (like a State or Province) they are having a huge problem trying to locate most of the people who are 80+   They know how many of them there are, but they can only locate a small percentage. They think many of them have changed their phone numbers or not updated their information (address, phone number, etc.) with their Obligatory Health Plan.  I updated mine...

I am in Group 2 which also includes Medical/Health professionals and includes those between 60 and 79 years of age. 

My belief is that Colombia did well in arranging to buy (or have options to buy) from a number of providers. There are 5 or 6.   The first vaccine (Pfizer/BioNTech) arrived on an ABX cargo jet (mostly DHL freight) from Europe (Belgium?) with a stop in Miami, about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

At first, I was not planning to get vaccinated, but I believe in the future it will be mandatory and now I know several people, my age or older in the USA who have been vaccinated, including one man I believe is 90 or more years old.

Our next door neighbor was vaccinated about 8 or 9 days ago.  My wife spoke with him the next day. He is 87 years old.

In my case, if and when they contact me, I will ask which company made the Vaccine. My first choice is Pfizer/BioNTech.  I don't think they have purchased the Moderna vaccine, which would be my 2nd choice if available. Maybe the Janssen (Johnson and Johnson) which only requires one shot.  Last on my list is the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is actually 2 different ones. One is made in South Korea and I think the other one is made in India. A few weeks ago in South Korea they decided not to give AstraZeneca.  They are not dumb in South Korea IMO so I don't want AstraZeneca.  And after I read about South Korea and AstraZeneca I Googled AstraZeneca and  discovered that a lot of people in a number of European countries are refusing to take it, and I believe where there is smoke there is fire, so I do not want AstraZeneca.

If I am getting it free I won't have a choice. It will be whichever vaccine they have on hand that day, so I don't know if I am going to get it or not at this time.  If I can't get the vaccine I want free, eventually I can go and pay for it.

[Roadrunner]

Just now, kand said:

I’m frustrated that classification of preexisting conditions doesn’t seem to be based clearly on the data of which conditions are most risky. The most recent study I’ve seen indicates age, obesity and hypertension are most highly correlated with severe disease and death. Hypertension is left off most lists of priority comorbidities, though. Less risky conditions are included. 

Damn. I didn’t realize hypertension was an issue. That just moved DH into high risk. 😞 

I thought it was autoimmune, cancer, diabetes, schizophrenia, autism, obesity. 

[Lilaclady]

I don’t feel bad about it. Any one who can should js my opinion. I feel bad about the vaccines being wasted than about someone getting it but will like if more effort is out into signing up older people as I feel more of them  and minorities are not getting signed up and a lot of the support services like libraries are not open or operating at minimal capacity.

[SKL]

I wonder if the autism thing is because many of them can't wear a mask?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

We have more vaccines locally than people interested, and I know one of the counties just got a large shipment of Johnson and Johnson vax.  Here, at least, I wish they’d open it up to anyone interested and just get as many who want it vaccinated quickly.

I understand the point of tiers, but there’s a lot more vaccine here right now than people that want it.

[Farrar]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I also thought about doing this because neighboring DC seems more organized than MD. I dont know if they are checking licenses, though. 

Only this week did we finally surpass having vaxxed more DC residents than MD/VA ones. And I get why, but it was frustrating for it to take this long.

They are checking though. I mean, all the MD/VA people we've vaxxed work here.

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I agree. Many of the guidelines seem very fuzzy to me.

What really burns me are people who are flat out lying in order to jump the line. Or people who have minimal risk factors inflating those to jump ahead of people are really, truly high risk. It seems that a lot of people I know think if they've ever had a bad cold that puts them in the high risk category. And yet my DH, and so many of the patients on the cancer board I belong to--people who are truly, unarguably at very high risk--can't get a vaccine. That infuriates me if I think about it much. As long as it's at least fuzzy I'm trying to be okay with it. A lot of the guidelines don't make sense to me, but I realize I'm not a public health expert, and there have to be some guidelines even if they aren't perfect.

Oklahoma seems to have plenty of vaccine and a fair amount of appointments. All three of us have been vaccinated with first shot. I know a ton of people who getting it here. Native Americans have their own facilities so a bunch of young people are getting it there that might now qualify for current tier.  
 

In AR my critically ill friend (the one who almost died last fall) is not eligible....not even close.  Apparently in AR they haven’t even started on the over 65 group, much less those with underlying conditions.   Seems like some states just aren’t managing it as well as other states.  

[1234]

This is the one thing I like about how my state is doing it. It’s mostly strictly by age. We’re at the 50+ group at the moment. The only medical condition at this time allowed is those 16+ with sickle cell disease and you get a link from your doctor to sign up. Healthcare workers and first responders are the only occupation that is allowed to sign up through our system. I think since Biden announced the teacher thing they can do that here but only through those select pharmacies, not through the main state sign up site. Dh and I should be in the next age group and it’s supposed to open by the end of the month!

[Farrar]

My understanding is that a lot of places are trying to strike a balance between likelihood to be exposed vs. likelihood to experience complications/death if you do get exposed. A young person without comorbidities but in an institution isn't likely to die from Covid, but is more likely to be exposed, for example.

[kristin0713]

It has been disgraceful here in NJ. Rich hospital donors were jumping the line back in December at our county hospital. Here it is March and so many seniors still can't get an appointment. The online system is impossible for them.  I was sent a link through our state health system weeks ago to schedule and the closest site taking out of county residents is two hours from me. There are appointments available closer but not accepting anyone out of county.  However, my 75yo MIL did not get her link to schedule and so she can't access the system that I can which is a specific link tied to my information.  By sheer luck I was able to snag an appointment for her at CVS.  Since I am not super high risk, I am not stalking the CVS appointments for myself. There are so, so many people who are much more at risk than me. I will take one when there are plenty or when I don't have to drive two hours. 

[1234]

Just now, Seasider too said:

How are they determining to move through the tiers? (This question can be answered by anyone w/regard to your area.)

In a conservative state, I fear that they are basing it on percentage of population in each tier that receives vaccine. Like they will move to the next tier when 50/80/whatever percent of the open tier is vaxxed. 
 

I am afraid that’s too slow. Because in the more rural areas of our state, many elders are deciding not to be vaccinated (likely thanks to false beliefs). I think it’s sad to hold a tier open longer than people are actively coming for it. Am I making sense? I wish my tier would open sooner. I know a lot of people who would happily get the ones being turned down by people who don’t want it. 

I’m honestly not sure. The move down to 65+ seemed to go slow but then we jumped to 50+ rather fast. 

[Laura Corin]

12 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

How are they determining when to move through the tiers? (This question can be answered by anyone w/regard to your area.)

In a conservative state, I fear that they are basing it on percentage of population in each tier that receives vaccine. Like they will move to the next tier when 50/80/whatever percent of the open tier is vaxxed. 
 

I am afraid that’s too slow. Because in the more rural areas of our state, many elders are deciding not to be vaccinated (likely thanks to false beliefs). I think it’s sad to hold a tier open longer than people are actively coming for it. Am I making sense? I wish my tier would open sooner. I know a lot of people who would happily get the ones being turned down by people who don’t want it. 

That's how it's being done roughly here, but there have been people going door to door offering vaccines to people in the tier who are housebound for example.  The take up is in the 90 plus percent range so far. The current tier is age 60-65. I assume they are keeping an eye on appointment availability before opening for the next tranche. 

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n221

Edited March 6, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Jaybee]

For you, personally, Quill, if you feel you are on the line of "murky," I would think that the cancer would push you over that line to the vaccinate side. I don't know what the ones in charge of your area would think.

[Ali in OR]

16 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

How are they determining when to move through the tiers? (This question can be answered by anyone w/regard to your area.)

In my conservative state, I fear that they are basing it on percentage of population in each tier that receives vaccine. Like they will move to the next tier when 50/80/whatever percent of the open tier is vaxxed. 
 

I am afraid that’s too slow. Because in the more rural areas of our state, many elders are deciding not to be vaccinated (likely thanks to false beliefs). I think it’s sad to hold a tier open longer than people are actively coming for it. Am I making sense? I wish my tier would open sooner. I know a lot of people who would happily get the ones being turned down by people who don’t want it. 

We have a rough schedule announced by the governor (and I believe a commission that did the planning part). So dates have been known in advance: educators started 1/25, over 80 on 2/8, the next Monday over 75, the next Monday, over 70 and I believe as of 3/1 we're at over 65. She has announced that anyone over 16 will be eligible by July 1. I've lost track of everything in between. This is all tentative based on supply, but the recent news has them saying it could be earlier rather than later. I think I heard the supply of vaccines our state receives will double this week as production has been ramping up. Our county is doing well with 20% now vaccinated (I think that means at least one shot, not necessarily done)--that's higher than neighboring counties that are now at 13-17%.

[1234]

Yeah, even though we’ve moved mostly by age and are at 50+, we only have around 10% of the state fully vaccinated and around 16% have had the first dose. I have no idea what the breakdown is by county. 

[kokotg]

I have a problem with people actually lying to get the vaccine in places where there's clearly still more demand than supply for eligible populations (here there's a lot of abuse of the "caregiver" designation for example). But I'm going to a neighboring state where I'm eligible to get mine on Monday. I keep checking the place I made an appointment every day, worried that I'm kicking some Tennessee Grandma out of line, but there are tons and tons of appointments available every time I check. I read that TN expanded eligibility for next week because they don't have enough demand in the current categories. I don't believe they've expanded eligibility to grocery workers yet, and that's the part I don't love....I think they should be going ahead of me (I'm eligible based on medical condition--in this case just my BMI). But in this case the choice seems to be a lot of unfilled appointments or me taking one--I don't get to decide which groups are eligible. 

[Laura Corin]

39 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

That’s great for you! So efficient. Wish that were the case here. 

Considering the car-crash level governmental incompetence in all other aspects of UK response to Covid, most people are astonished it is going this well.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

No line jumping via fraud, of course.

But to save unused vaccines at the end of the day, if there are no other takers, I am in favor.

If they are vaxing campus students without any special requirements, then I don't see why a trade guy should be excluded if he technically qualifies.  If he didn't qualify, then why was he so eager to get the vax early?  Does he have special considerations such as a very at-risk family member?  Morally, it might be right even if he used a little white lie to get in.

I don't think legal assistant is what they mean by front line judicial support, unless you work in the courtroom or directly with people who are going through judicial process [I assume they mean defendants and similar].  If you are able to reliably distance yourself from people in your job, then I don't think they mean this for you.

He didn’t at the time, but in a remarkable twist of fate, I just learned today that his brother, who cares for their very elderly, frail mom, just tested positive. So mama is going to stay with the vaccinated “tier-jumper” son for a few weeks. Funny how stuff works out. 

Your second paragraph: yeah, I expect it does not really mean me. I do not think it is 100% honest to say I fit in this category. It’s rather moot at the moment, because I can’t find an available appointment right now anyway. But it does amaze me a bit when people who *do* legit fit the tier, won’t get it because XYZ. My parents are in that category. My mom thinks she will feel sick as a side-effect - which is probably accurate - but probably not as sick as she’s going to feel if she gets covid. 

[melmichigan]

Every county seems to be doing their own thing here, with different guidelines.  Then you have the large hospitals, and even private practices that are vaccinating their own patients by their guidelines.  Companies are vaccinating their own employees.  Really the only places I see following the tiers are the health departments and some of the pharmacies, and even then there are often doses leftover that are just going into arms.  

Many people are getting vaccinated wherever they can, be it half-way across the state because our county isn't getting much vaccine.  In my county 15% of people have been vaccinated, compared to 17% of the state, 35% of those 65+ have been vaccinated.  The state just changed it again and anyone 50+with conditions, and those in more areas of the workforce are coming eligible as of Monday.  Our county health department opened pre-registration to everyone in the county at the same time, pulling from that list first come first served based on priority.  I put myself, and  my kids, on the list when they opened it so they will be called when eligible.

I got an early vaccine because I pre-registered, so they had my information, and I was able to be there at the drop of a hat when they had vaccine that needed to be given. I have no regrets and I don't fault anyone else that does the same.  My husband was vaccinated back in January as a priority employee.  His company just opened vaccine to anyone in the company and they can't get people to take it. 🤷‍♀️

Edited March 6, 2021 by melmichigan

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Your second paragraph: yeah, I expect it does not really mean me. I do not think it is 100% honest to say I fit in this category. It’s rather moot at the moment, because I can’t find an available appointment right now anyway. But it does amaze me a bit when people who *do* legit fit the tier, won’t get it because XYZ. My parents are in that category. My mom thinks she will feel sick as a side-effect - which is probably accurate - but probably not as sick as she’s going to feel if she gets covid. 

My mom won't get it either.  She says she had a horrific reaction the one time she got the flu shot.  She has never gotten any other vax.  She is on a protective antiviral med for another condition, has type O blood, takes vitamin D, almost never leaves the house [for real], and doesn't have any of the big risk factors other than being 75 and somewhat overweight.  While I'd feel more comfortable if she'd had the vax and it was long enough that we didn't have to worry about reactions, I have to admit that she's probably right about being at low risk for major problems should she catch Covid.  And again, the choices aren't get vaxed or get Covid ... they are get vaxed or don't get vaxed.  Not everyone who doesn't get vaxed is going to get Covid.

[Katy]

The thing about the categories...  People who work with lawyers and judges can get those essential services shut down if they are a super spreader.  Courthouse hallways are not exactly well ventilated.  A hospital clerk who doesn't do patient care but who breathes the same air as hundreds of employees who do in the sky walk from the employee parking ramp to the hospital each shift could also get a lot of people sick.  Just go ahead and get it when you're eligible (if you can get an appointment) and don't worry about it.   Lying is tier jumping.  Going when you're allowed, even if you don't consider yourself high priority, is not.

[Pam in CT]

CT this week jettisoned all plans for future tiers, and instituted access on a purely age-based system. There were a couple of reasons to do so -- I think the determinative reasons were that other tier categoires were introducing a level of complexity/ related roll-out costs and difficulty in documentation of the categories/ related equity issues... both of which were slowing the rollout down... but resentment about tier-jumping may also have been a concern.

Now, all anybody has to demonstrate is their age/ date of birth. A very wide range of documentation of age is accepted. No discretion, no subjectivity, no doctor notice, just age. The idea is to zoom through the age ranges as fast as possible (the current expectation is that the current tier, teachers (who were already tagged in the prior rollout) and 55+, will be done by 3/22; then there will be an expected 3 weeks for 45+, then another 3 weeks for 35+, then everyone 16+ by May 3.

So far only Maine has joined us in this route, but on balance at this point -- now that the elderly cohort where the death & complication rate is so high has had their chance -- it does seem to me to be better to get AS MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE GAME AS POSSIBLE, AS FAST AS POSSIBLE than to mess with other hurdles and all the associated complexity and resentment.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, SKL said:

My mom won't get it either.  She says she had a horrific reaction the one time she got the flu shot.  She has never gotten any other vax.  She is on a protective antiviral med for another condition, has type O blood, takes vitamin D, almost never leaves the house [for real], and doesn't have any of the big risk factors other than being 75 and somewhat overweight.  While I'd feel more comfortable if she'd had the vax and it was long enough that we didn't have to worry about reactions, I have to admit that she's probably right about being at low risk for major problems should she catch Covid.  And again, the choices aren't get vaxed or get Covid ... they are get vaxed or don't get vaxed.  Not everyone who doesn't get vaxed is going to get Covid.

Yes, that’s true. For my mama, though...I sure do hope she does not get COVID. I do not think she would survive. She has several advanced health problems and is on oral chemo medication currently. I also think there is a very high chance she would not go to the hospital or would make that decision too late. 

[Bootsie]

I have concerns that the people I know that have had the most difficulty getting vaccinated are over 65, retired, but in relatively good health, so not in an institutionalized setting.  Most of the people I have known who have been able to get a vaccine have been able to do so through their employer even though they may be totally working from home.