Apps that Stalk? Which ones are we missing??

[easypeasy]

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE.

Ugh. I'll provide some background information, because it's probably necessary & good for me to maybe see it written out:

So. Recent events with “David” since DD has graduated high school.

Edited Version: there have been several events/places that DD has attended - where David has just popped up 

 

• He DID take her phone at the fair to take a group photo with a prize-winning pig (lol). DD left her phone locked and told him to swipe to get to the camera, but he said it wasn't working, so she unlocked her phone. They took the pictures and moved on and it was a few minutes before DD realized she hadn't gotten her phone back from him.
• We have checked the settings on Snapchat. That awful map thingy is turned OFF.
• We have checked the settings on her iPhone. She is only sharing locations with me, her sister, and her brother. We checked this with DHs phone and he can't see her location (he never set up the sharing locations because he thinks it's creepy to stalk his wife and kids, lol)
• We have checked Instagram and she isn't sharing locations there so far as we can tell.
• She has Facebook, but not Messenger, on her phone.
• She deleted WhatsApp and a couple other Group Text apps since she doesn't currently need them for anything.

 

What could we be missing??!! We considered there might be a tracker on her car, but she wasn't driving on the date or at the movies. She didn't even have her regular purse with her on the date - just a small clutch with her phone in it.

 

So. How's he finding her? 🤔 What are we missing? We'll re-set her phone if we have to but would rather find if there was a setting changed and re-set it.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by easypeasy
removed personal details

[Sneezyone]

I would, quite frankly,  get a new phone and phone number. Change her email address and only add contacts she wants. Make abundantly clear to everyone in her circle that she is NOT to be tagged in any photos they post or have her activities or whereabouts discussed with this young man or posted online. Ensure the location settings are NOT turned on with her phone, including (sadly) find my iPhone and "Find Friends". 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Sneezyone

[itsheresomewhere]

Driving the same car to all these places?  I would have the car looked over or take another car ( if she can swap with you or dad) and see if it keeps happening.  There are tracking devices you can put on cars.  Easy and cheap.  
 

You could do a factory reset of her phone.  Just make sure she as all her contacts copied and pictures saved.  

[Bambam]

We purchased a used car about a year ago. About 8 months after we purchased it, someone riding in it noticed an odd thing plugged into the steering column. It was removed and turned out to be a tracker. We assumed the car dealer put it on there in case he needed to reclaim the car. It was a small black box - actually looked like part of the steering column. I'd check for one of those. We found it online for $20 when we googled it. 

And, I agree that she should have that talk with him. Tell him to back off. 

[gardenmom5]

there are tracker apps, but they must be installed and activated on the person's phone (I used one for dudeling.).   has he had access to her phone?  scrolling through installed apps would reveal it.  have you taken the phone apart to see if there is a piece of hardware hiding under the battery? 

it's possible he somehow linked to her phone's GPS signal.

otherwise - new phone. and absolutely let her friends know not to tag her in anything.

do keep a record of all of these (*especially* if you find anything indicating a tracker).  she may end up needing to file a restraining order.

It doesn't sound like it's her car - if he's finding her even if she goes with someone else.   

I would be interested if someone else took her phone and car - if he would show up.

 

[TechWife]

46 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I wouldn’t rule out the old-fashioned method - that he is simply following her around. 

I'd probably be calling the police nonemergency number for advice, even before she has “a big talk” with him. That could trigger a reaction, if he truly is unbalanced. 

It surely seems something purposeful on his part is going on. 

This is exactly what I was going to say. Also, the police are likely to have a list of apps that track people in case he slipped something onto her phone. I know our PD occasionally publishes a list of apps parents need to be aware of for various reasons. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Oh goodness, this takes me back to the early 90s when I had a stalker whose name was actually David. He would just happen to turn up in the most unlikely places and at the most unlikely times and multiple times a day. He seemed friendly, until it got just too weird and then it was just creepy.

No mobile phones or apps back in those days, so I was being physically followed and my schedule and known places were regularly checked by him (I know because I got cluey and hid and watched him walking by and looking around *shudder*).

I ended up confronting my stalker. If your daughter does this, I'd suggest she's not alone at the time, if possible.

This may be a police matter. I'd keep my eyes wide open and be careful of how charming and friendly he seems.

I wish you all well.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I'll also add that I changed all of my habits. I started catching different trains from different stations, walking from A to B by new routes, eating in different places, entering buildings from different doors etc. I shouldn't have had to do these things, but this was how he was following me - I was a creature of habit.

[regentrude]

A quick google search revealed that there are many different illicit spyware apps that are hard to detect.

I would get her a new phone and new phone number.

[*****]

Yes, it is hard to know whether this is just infatuation or actual stalking. But she needs to make it very clear, when she has a friend with her that it is getting weird, she is not interested and he needs to leave her alone.  

I just finished reading: The Gift of Fear, survival signals that protect us from violence by Gavin De Becker. It talks about and cites real life situations such as this one. Mainly, he is reminding us to listen to our gut.  If something feels off, listen to it, because most likely something really is off.  If you read the first chapter, not to scare you, but for all women/children to be mindful of our gut, not our head or heart.  It usually is correct.  

If she has been clear that she is not interested, then he continues to follow her and she feels creeped out, that would be a problem.  Please try to read this book, it talks about restraining orders and when they can be avoided (they can cause escalation behaviors).  I'm sorry this is happening. Have her be extra vigilant, perhaps he is just following, rather than using his electronics.  Keep us posted!

[easypeasy]

n/a

Edited October 16, 2019 by easypeasy

[easypeasy]

On 10/8/2019 at 6:19 PM, regentrude said:

A quick google search revealed that there are many different illicit spyware apps that are hard to detect.

I would get her a new phone and new phone number.

Could he have installed something on her phone *that* quickly though? He didn’t have her password to download an app...

We can get her a new phone this week though if we need to - maybe keep the # though.e.

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by easypeasy

[easypeasy]

4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

It definitely sounds like he believes there is more between them than there actually is. 

In his imagination, maybe! It’s really the oddest thing!

[easypeasy]

n/a

Edited October 16, 2019 by easypeasy

[Selkie]

25 minutes ago, ***** said:

Yes, it is hard to know whether this is just infatuation or actual stalking. But she needs to make it very clear, when she has a friend with her that it is getting weird, she is not interested and he needs to leave her alone.  

I just finished reading: The Gift of Fear, survival signals that protect us from violence by Gavin De Becker. It talks about and cites real life situations such as this one. Mainly, he is reminding us to listen to our gut.  If something feels off, listen to it, because most likely something really is off.  If you read the first chapter, not to scare you, but for all women/children to be mindful of our gut, not our head or heart.  It usually is correct.  

If she has been clear that she is not interested, then he continues to follow her and she feels creeped out, that would be a problem.  Please try to read this book, it talks about restraining orders and when they can be avoided (they can cause escalation behaviors).  I'm sorry this is happening. Have her be extra vigilant, perhaps he is just following, rather than using his electronics.  Keep us posted!

I was just going to recommend Gavin De Becker's book, too.

OP, I think you need to talk to someone who is an expert in handling stalkers. This is downright scary - your description of his behavior is one big, screaming red flag. It is obvious he is obsessed with your dd, and I really think you should talk to someone who knows how to best defuse these situations.

[Katy]

Has she talked to her other friends when he's not around and mentioned that she's starting to feel creeped out?

When I had weird stalker-ish but not quite bad enough to call police yet situations at that age I found male friends were really good at defining boundaries for me.

That and sometimes I just decided to get a boyfriend, even though I wasn't interested in long term commitment with any of them at the time.   I found having a boyfriend around made other male friends back off and get their own girlfriends.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, easypeasy said:

Could he have installed something on her phone *that* quickly though? He didn’t have her Apple ID password to download an app... 

spyware can be installed through phishing, i.e. sending an email or message with a link. It does not require physical access to the phone.

In any case I would have her switch off GPS location on her phone, and disable apps that have location data like fb or twitter and access those sites through the browser

Edited October 9, 2019 by regentrude

[BeachGal]

He could be using multiple methods — something on her phone, a secret tracker on her car, pestering friends and looking through social media, and just driving by places where he knows she is likely to be and then following her. Creepy.

My roommate in college was stalked by the father of her friend back home, over 800 miles away. It was disturbing to say the least. The school gave her some kind of protection and her father ended up confronting the man back home which, thankfully, ended it.

Be careful.

ETA This link has some sites that explain how to secretly track someone using iPhone. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+secretly+track+someone+using+their+iphone&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Edited October 9, 2019 by BeachGal
added link

[Tap]

Unless she needs a new phone, just try resetting it back to factory.  It will uninstall any apps. Also remember that smart watches have the same info! 

I would then delete all emails from a computer and not open any on her phone. If she needs to send an email from her phone, or check one from a store or what not, she can, but avoid personal emails. 

Turn off location on phone, and manually enter her location in Google maps/Apple maps if she needs it.

Go to the Apple store and ask for help turning of any Apple apps with trackers on them.  There are so many preinstalled apps, that it may be almost impossible to do without help.

Check to see what apps use location services that are installed on her phone. Apple store may be ablet to help with this, if you can't find it on your own.

Do not use Gmail or Google that is logged into her account on her phone. 

Read!!!!! any app permission statements before installing them in the future. This will alert her to apps that may be tracking her, that she isn't aware of. It could be an old app that she doesn't even realize is on her phone! 

Tell her friends to NOT tell him, if they know where she is. He could simply be getting information from them, without knowing it.  OR tell them to purposefully give him false information if they feel cornered. 

 

Another method, would be to reverse the process and start watching his location to figure out the leak. If she knows a way that she can see his location..... Leave everything alone on her phone and try one thing at a time.  Especially if she knows he is not busy.  Send a message to a girl friend that says something like "Im going to study at Starbucks on Main for a few hours if you want to join me". Then watch his location and see if he follows. Put her car somewhere similar, and watch his location.  This will also help to identify if he is watching her, since you can watch his location and see if it follows hers.  

Good luck!  He sounds like a decent guy on paper, but is obviously not IRL and  overstepping many, many boundaries!  Time to tell him to back off!! But it would be nice if you could figure out how he knows what he knows first! That way he isn't still stalking her in silence.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Tap

[Ann.without.an.e]

If you initiate the stalker type apps then they download in the background unknown to the owner.  Did he have enough time with her phone to simply click install on something? If it was a quick pic then probably not.  

Reset phone to factory settings and see if that helps?

[Arctic Bunny]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/apples-new-location-alerts-show-how-often-other-companies-track-you.html

[Tree Frog]

4 hours ago, easypeasy said:

Could he have installed something on her phone *that* quickly though? He didn’t have her Apple ID password to download an app... 

Unfortunately, she owns a small business and is a working musician. Changing her number is a big, big hassle on multi levels. And it would probably be super-easy for him to get the new one since people are used to giving others that info fairly freely for “gig” communication purposes. 

There’s no way to not have people tag or photograph her, etc since she’s a musician!  It just happens! 😕

We can get her a new phone this week though if we need to - maybe keep the # though. Maybe a trip to the Apple store is in order before.

 

If he knew what he was wanting to do and he had access to her unlocked phone for a couple of min, yes, he likely had time. Did he actually take the pic?

I like the idea of going back and doing a factory reset to see if it solves the problem.

I also wonder if she should tell him to knock off following her via a group text. My DD had a friend who had a male stalker who was part of their friends group. She tried to handle things privately and was very specific when she told him to stop, but it wasn't until she told him off publicly via group text that the other men friends realized how bad things were getting and started running interference for her. Sometimes peer pressure can be used for good. 

[Chris in VA]

Honestly, I would get parental over this and have Dad tell him to leave her alone . But that may not be best, just what I would do. If he didn't, I would get police involved. Again, maybe not best since I hear it can escalate things. Just my gut reaction. 

[Sneezyone]

You can always set up call forwarding from an old number to a new one and keep the old one just for business purposes.

[J-rap]

That's really creepy...  I'm glad you're taking steps to do something about it.  I'd be very, very curious to know what would happen if you and your dh or you and a friend took her car and her phone and went to a location for an evening, someplace where he would otherwise probably never go, like a hole-in-the-wall cafe or something.  Sit there for a couple hours -- eat dinner there.  Watch the door and see what happens.  If he comes, I think that would be proof that there was a tracking device or spyware on her car or phone.  I'd probably not confront him though, because if he's really obsessed enough to do that, then he may be unbalanced enough to be dangerous.

I had a stalker when I was in college, and weirdly, his name was David too.  He'd follow me from school to my part-time job (usually trying not to let me see him, but I knew he was there).  From my office window, I could see him outside just pacing the sidewalk.  I finally alerted the office staff there about it, and they began watching for him.  After he did this a number of times, they decided to call the police.  A squad car came right away, and they walked right over to him and talked to him.  Of course they didn't have any concrete evidence that he was really following me, but they asked him questions like, "What are you doing here?  Are you waiting for someone?" etc.  Turns out it really scared him, and he never bothered me again.

I'd probably stop by the local police department and talk with a police officer in the non-emergency area.  Explain the situation and ask them for advice.  (You could call them too, but I always like to do things in-person when I can.)

[gardenmom5]

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

spyware can be installed through phishing, i.e. sending an email or message with a link. It does not require physical access to the phone.

In any case I would have her switch off GPS location on her phone, and disable apps that have location data like fb or twitter and access those sites through the browser

but you have to click on the link.

[maize]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

but you have to click on the link.

He had the unlocked phone in his hand though, he could have gone to some site and clicked on a link himself that downloaded something.

She said he took the phone for the photo, insisted she unlock it for him rather than just swiping to the camera, then sometime after the photo was past realised he still had not given the phone back--he definitely had time to do something.

We know this guy is very smart, valedictorian of his class and all. I would definitely talk to someone at the police department who deals with stalkers. High IQ plus apparently long-lasting obsession with this young woman makes me think this fellow will likely have put multiple tracking methods in place.

Personally I might buy a new phone and save the old one without a factory reset in case things escalate and it might have evidence of some kind, but maybe that is overkill.

Edited October 9, 2019 by maize

[PrincessMommy]

8 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

Honestly, I would get parental over this and have Dad tell him to leave her alone . But that may not be best, just what I would do. If he didn't, I would get police involved. Again, maybe not best since I hear it can escalate things. Just my gut reaction. 

I was going to suggest that you and dh take dd's phone and go out to a restaurant or coffee shop.  When the guy shows up have a come to Jesus conversation with him.  Hopefully that will scare him off. 

Also, isn't it illegal to put spyware on someone else's phone without permission?  That may be one way to get the police involved.

Does this guy still live at home?  Maybe bring his parent's into the conversation.  They may need to intervene too 

 

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, maize said:

He had the unlocked phone in his hand though, he could have gone to some site and clicked on a link himself that downloaded something.

She said he took the phone for the photo, insisted she unlock it for him rather than just swiping to the camera, then sometime after the photo was past realised he still had not given the phone back--he definitely had time to do something.

We know this guy is very smart, valedictorian of his class and all. I would definitely talk to someone at the police department who deals with stalkers. High IQ plus apparently long-lasting obsession with this young woman makes me think this fellow will likely have put multiple tracking methods in place.

Personally I might buy a new phone and save the old one without a factory reset in case things escalate and it might have evidence of some kind, but maybe that is overkill.

I missed that.

and I agree, talk to the police BEFORE confronting him.  My concern is, if he's more obsessed - he will "go underground" with following her around.  
considering stalkers - I don't think there is such thing as overkill.

9 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

I was going to suggest that you and dh take dd's phone and go out to a restaurant or coffee shop.  When the guy shows up have a come to Jesus conversation with him.  Hopefully that will scare him off. 

Also, isn't it illegal to put spyware on someone else's phone without permission?  That may be one way to get the police involved.

Does this guy still live at home?  Maybe bring his parent's into the conversation.  They may need to intervene too 

 

yes it's illegal - it's also hard to prove who did it.  Though he had opportunity, and is the one showing up.

[Lecka]

I would contact the police and see what they suggest.  

It's already at a point that is concerning.  

[Lecka]

If she has driven to these places, he could have put a tracker on her car.  

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

If she has driven to these places, he could have put a tracker on her car.  

sometimes she rode with other people.

[Jaybee]

This is so creepy. I agree with pp above that I would go in person to the police station to talk with them about it. (See if he shows up there!) And I'd do it before confronting him. I might would try handing off her phone to friends first to see if he shows up, but not mention it to him at that time.

[Tree Frog]

I would be concerned that dad having a talk with him wouldn't matter because he'd still know where she is, even if he isn't following her as much.

My friend called the police when her friends warned her the stalker drove to her city to find and talk to her. She happened to be out of town, but called the police as she was driving in. They told her they couldn't do anything until the guy did something to her first. They were useless helping her. I hope if the op's dd goes to the police they will have some suggestions or otherwise be of help.

[Tree Frog]

According to this  NY Times article, there are apps that would allow someone else to see private texts. Is there a possibility this young man is monitoring the dd's texts as well as her location? If so, he likely knows she's upset and on to his shenanigans if she's been texting about it.

[Laura Corin]

In England you would be able to apply for an injunction to a court (not via the police) to tell the person to leave her alone.  Breaking that injunction can lead to penalties - criminal or civil.    Is there something similar and would that be an option? 

https://www.suzylamplugh.org/faqs/stalking-and-civil-law

[Angie in VA]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:58 PM, ***** said:

Yes, it is hard to know whether this is just infatuation or actual stalking. But she needs to make it very clear, when she has a friend with her that it is getting weird, she is not interested and he needs to leave her alone.  

I just finished reading: The Gift of Fear, survival signals that protect us from violence by Gavin De Becker. It talks about and cites real life situations such as this one. Mainly, he is reminding us to listen to our gut.  If something feels off, listen to it, because most likely something really is off.  If you read the first chapter, not to scare you, but for all women/children to be mindful of our gut, not our head or heart.  It usually is correct.  

If she has been clear that she is not interested, then he continues to follow her and she feels creeped out, that would be a problem.  Please try to read this book, it talks about restraining orders and when they can be avoided (they can cause escalation behaviors).  I'm sorry this is happening. Have her be extra vigilant, perhaps he is just following, rather than using his electronics.  Keep us posted!

 

Yes to Gavin de Becker's books The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift. (I also like Child Lures wrt younger children) I think every woman should read those books. Sorry I have no clue about apps. 

You've gotten good advice here. Talk to him with witnesses (for several reasons) asap, put the friends on alert, and consult the police right away for advice. I know phones can be pricey, but, yeah, new number and phone is probably a good idea. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

In England you would be able to apply for an injunction to a court (not via the police) to tell the person to leave her alone.  Breaking that injunction can lead to penalties - criminal or civil.    Is there something similar and would that be an option? 

https://www.suzylamplugh.org/faqs/stalking-and-civil-law

a restraining order. it could be a challenge to prove he's "stalking".

[Arctic Bunny]

I just discovered you can also share your location with google maps on your phone, and that is somewhat buried in the menus. Of course, this might be one of those things everybody but me knew!

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, arctic_bunny said:

I just discovered you can also share your location with google maps on your phone, and that is somewhat buried in the menus. Of course, this might be one of those things everybody but me knew!

If you have shared your location, you will get frequent email reminders of this, at least I do.

[maize]

7 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

If you have shared your location, you will get frequent email reminders of this, at least I do.

Possibly this is because of European internet privacy laws? I know some things are stricter over there.

[Tanaqui]

1. New phone. Anybody who gets the new number (and email address, etc) should be told NOT to share it with other people, especially David, no matter what. Sounds like they're all looped in already but a reminder never hurts. Anything on social media should be kept on lock, and friends should be asked not to post anything about her, even vaguely, under public privacy settings.

2. Since he's such a classic missing stair, she should also immediately inform any friends in that circle that she will NOT attend any events if David is invited. Period. If David shows up and isn't promptly shown the door, she should plan on immediately leaving. Again, sounds like they're on the alert, but reminders never hurt.

3. Document, document, document. If you end up having to escalate this to the authorities, you want a paper trail.

4. Since she's bound to get ambushed by David at least one more time, she should rehearse what she'll say: "David, I don't want to talk to you or see you. We're not friends. GO AWAY. LEAVE ME ALONE." It can be hard to make a scene in public, but this is what being in public, around bystanders, is for.

[Farrar]

I know you're planning to delete this post, but all the more reason to cut and paste it and save it for yourself. I was going to say the same thing that Tanaqui said about documentation. Document it all, even if it's just writing it all out.

This is so unfortunate, but I don't think your instincts are off. I'd also get a new phone, as much as a hassle and cost that it is.

[Laura Corin]

Would a lawyer's letter sent by registered post be useful?

[Tree Frog]

4 hours ago, arctic_bunny said:

I just discovered you can also share your location with google maps on your phone, and that is somewhat buried in the menus. Of course, this might be one of those things everybody but me knew!

Last week I realized all my pictures are tagged with the date and the location the pic was taken. I don't know if that transfers to pictures I share or post, but I don't like it. I've tried to turn it off, but to do that, I have to turn off all location apps, including Google maps, which I use frequently.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

14 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

Last week I realized all my pictures are tagged with the date and the location the pic was taken. I don't know if that transfers to pictures I share or post, but I don't like it. I've tried to turn it off, but to do that, I have to turn off all location apps, including Google maps, which I use frequently.

 

It depends on what you use to post photos to social media.  Imgur, which I use to post pictures here, deletes that location data from all pictures it posts. 

[Arctic Bunny]

1 hour ago, wilrunner said:

Last week I realized all my pictures are tagged with the date and the location the pic was taken. I don't know if that transfers to pictures I share or post, but I don't like it. I've tried to turn it off, but to do that, I have to turn off all location apps, including Google maps, which I use frequently.

 

I use Pixelgarde to remove the geodata from any pictures I share. I reverse checked my Facebook photos; it seems to strip them.

[Tree Frog]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It depends on what you use to post photos to social media.  Imgur, which I use to post pictures here, deletes that location data from all pictures it posts. 

 

25 minutes ago, arctic_bunny said:

I use Pixelgarde to remove the geodata from any pictures I share. I reverse checked my Facebook photos; it seems to strip them.

Thank you both! I'll look into those! How do you see if the info had been removed when you post?

[Arctic Bunny]

1 hour ago, wilrunner said:

 

Thank you both! I'll look into those! How do you see if the info had been removed when you post?

Go to the site, save your photo as though you’d never seen it before, lol, and look at it in the program. When I first got it, I experimented with a few pictures on here. I don’t anymore, out of respect for people’s privacy, but the couple I checked were not stripped.

[cave canem]

My 16 yo daughter read this and has this to say:

1st of all this David dude is messed up. like wHaT?!!?

2) I agree with "Date" that somebody needs to kick David's a$$. I personally would've done it right then and there 🤣 He needs to get knocked in the head sooner or later.

3) How can David think that he and DD have a "strong connection" if they never ever talk? That was like a 🤦‍♀️ moment

4) I agree with everybody else: get a new phone and number. Or if the number is too hard since she does gigs and such, at least get a new phone. And maybe even get a phone that isn't an iPhone... okay and last thing... I promise:

I think it would be awesome if you took her phone with you and went somewhere and see if he shows up. Then you would see if it's her phone that's allowing him to know where she is. I think it would be funny.

Anyway this David guy is pretty messed up and if I had someone stalking me like that I would be way too afraid to actually still go on with my normal life - so kudos to her.