11th grader dropping out--WWYD?

[cave canem]

This kid is smart but not at all interested in academics.  First entered public school for 10th grade after homeschooling.  Hated it and wanted to drop out.  Just *hates* school.

For 11th grade he is homechooling again with two CC classes and one class at home using a curriculum that only requires grading from us.  We thought he could stick out eleventh grade with this sort of course load.  He has been planning to accumulate a minimal number of credits so he can get a diploma from us, which would be faster than dealing with public school.  He works a minimum wage job, takes driver education, and goes to the gym every day. 

His plans for supporting himself seem unrealistic to us for his skill set--things like starting a company in an industry that seems cool but that he doesn't have expertise in and that most people get a specialized degree for or being a youtube personality. He does not want training in any sort of trade.

He has interest in being a personal trainer but may be on the young side for that.  There are also some unhealthy aspects to his fixation on the gym.

Without knowing my kid at all, what do you think your impulse would be in this sort of situation?  Pressure him to finish school?  By withholding something?  Knowing all the reasons we think this idea is terrible has not dissuaded him.

Would you change your expectations of him as a housemate?  I know he plans to work a lot of hours, but I still think he would likely be a disruptive presence for the younger student trying hard to master difficult subjects. 

 

  

 

  

[Twolittleboys]

I know it may be difficult to achieve (because real life is not as easy as we'd like) but my first inclination would be to say that finishing highschool in not negotiable. Either at public school or at home. I would be open to adjusting the homeschool schedule (e.g. more parental involvement or more unschooling with an emphasis on things he enjoys doing) if that would help. 

[Liz CA]

I would probably try to push him through high school if at all possible BUT then I would allow him to explore the world. If he works and lives at home, he may need to pay some rent. Or he can move out and try living on his own. The second option would be better because it would likely teach him a lot. You can always have your home open to him in emergencies but not to enable him or support him indefinitely. He may surprise you.

[J-rap]

Not knowing your ds at all, of course, I would do everything I could to get him to finish high school.  Is he refusing to do his current coursework, or just complaining about it?  If he's just complaining about it, what would he do if you just said "Tough luck, kiddo.  This is a requirement."  If he's actually refusing, could there be other issues going on?  Depression?  Or even if not, would he be open to some kind of counseling?  Otherwise, how about going more of an unschooling route, as Twolittleboys suggested.

When one of my dd's was 16, she developed chronic daily migraines and soon after those began we had a family tragedy which played out over a couple of years.  She was a really bright gal, but from then on, she lost interest in school.  She knew she had to finish -- that was non-negotiable.  (Although in our family, college is optional.)  I really did everything I could to get her through.  For history, she watched movies and documentaries.  (We usually all watched them together, which was fun.)  For music, she played her guitar.  For literature, I let her pick out books she wanted to read.  She enjoyed writing so I let her pretty much write about anything... summaries for each class, or short essays about things she thought particularly interesting, etc.  The two hardest to do that way were math and science, but we got it done.  (I won't go into details here but you can PM me if interested.  :))

I let her choose her time schedule, which was generally in the evenings.  I tried not to pressure her beyond that, and she felt pretty independent.  She did graduate, and of course chose not to go to college.  She is very bright though and is slowly finding her way.  She's a musician and also was just promoted to managing an entire country club.  (She started as a waitress.)  (I'm saying all of this just to give you some hope!)

One thing we dangled in front of her was a program she wanted to participate in in England after graduating from high school.  We assured her that we'd pay her way to do that once she graduated.  You know, whatever it takes!  She did have a fairly good attitude though, which helped a lot.  

Anyway -- that's my first instinct, but of course if I knew more details, it all might change.  

[Soror]

(hugs)

Fwiw I had a friend whose son was similar, he ended up dropping out, he got his GED and is apprenticing now. She said it has been good for him, he was just ready to start life and not interested in careers associated with college. He's much more focused now.

I can well understand the feeling, I know I felt HS to be very annoying.

I *think* I'd continue on the path you are taking. Have him complete whatever the minimum requirements are to graduate and issue him a diploma. I'd even see if he wanted to buckle down to complete those requirements sooner so he was just done.

Alternatively, if you've not considered it so far check out Vo-Tech, here they have training for kids in highschool for all sorts of things from computers to hairdresser.

Best wishes in whatever path you choose. 

[mom@shiloh]

Ideally, I would say that finishing high school, or at least getting a GED would be a non-negotiable term for continuing to live in your house.  In a real world, I know that ultimatums don't always work the way we'd like. Still, I think I'd stick with that.  Give him a reasonable amount of time to get it done, and then follow through on consequences if he doesn't. 

[PeterPan]

7 hours ago, cave canem said:

He has interest in being a personal trainer but may be on the young side for that.  There are also some unhealthy aspects to his fixation on the gym.

You might want to let him pursue this further. He only needs to be 18 and he must finish his high school diploma or have the equivalent to do the training. It might take a while to develop a practice that is a living wage, but it might better than you think. Around here, people earn minimum wage at the Y but with that personal trainer cert (1 year thing), they can clock out and do private at $45 an hour. Not shabby for a one year cert in something he actually likes.

When you say his fixation is unhealthy, is it the gym itself (drug use culture, something, whatever that is red flagging to you) or is it that he seems to have a perseverative interest? Have you ever wondered if he was on the spectrum or had ADHD? I can tell you that a LOT of people who work out regularly at the gym are ADHD. Like, not to state the obvious, but that's why they're there. And if you watch a big longer, there's a contingent that is on the spectrum or maybe VERY ADHD with the social thinking deficits that push toward spectrum. I've been told there are some other sports (biking for instance) that attract spectrum. 

I think you can try to take people away from perseverative interests, but they are who they are. Sometimes it's easier to harness it and work with it. If he sees that finishing his high school diploma with you could get him something he wants, he might be more inclined to do it. You might be able to tweak his remaining courses to fit with that personal trainer interest. For instance, it would be pretty logical then to do some anatomy and physiology. I would give him credits for what he's doing at the gym. Maybe have him do some job shadowing. Maybe have him get a job at a supplement place that caters to bodybuilders. Those people might give him some straight talk too. The people who work out where I work out are pretty successful, focused people. It takes focus and dedication to make a plan and stick to it with your weight lifting, and they carry it over to their personal lives. There's a lot of setting goals and kicking your butt to do it. Might be a GOOD environment for him, because these are people who do hard things. At least where I work out that's the culture. Maybe help him find another gym if where he's going isn't healthy.

I would try to avoid the GED. I think your plan for structured courses is wise, because he sounds like he has a lot of entropy to himself right now. And this just me, but if he's under 18 I would consider psych evals. There's probably something more going on (ADHD, ASD, whatever) and maybe you could get some words to it. Your ability to make that happen gets a lot harder after 18. It might tweak the discussions or how he thinks of himself or turn things more positive. People think psych evals are all negative, but at this age they will spend time talking about his future, strengths, what is realistic, how to get there, what supports he needs, etc.You wouldn't need a neuropsych eval unless you suspect learning disabilities. Just a psych with some experience with ADHD and ASD to run some screening tools and have those discussions. He might find he'd like to continue some counseling with that person then on how to set goals or problem solve or whatever. 

[elegantlion]

Work on an accelerated plan for graduation, with a combination of CC and a few self-designed courses. Are they interested in being a self-employed personal trainer? I would insist on courses like personal finance or business math (probably not from me) and a basic core of classes (math, science, English, history).  I would see what the CC offers in the spring and summer. I'd work with him to craft a plan to graduate at least a semester early. If my child were insistent that they wanted out of school sooner than later and did not want to pursue college, I would ensure they at least get a diploma so as to not have them start with a GED, which still holds negative stigma in many areas. 

 

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

business

Yes, this! Or even choose CC classes that would get him close to getting an associates in business by the time he graduates from high school. An associates in business is actually an employable thing, earning a living wage, and the skills would be highly useful to someone trying to run their own business or keep track of taxes as they earn while working another job, etc.

Edited October 1, 2018 by PeterPan

[Bambam]

Personally, I'd strongly push for finishing high school. I would probably try to tailor it to help him achieve his goals - so if he wants to be a personal trainer, I'd include courses for business - business management, accounting, business law (?), marketing, and try to find some Kinesiology courses at my local CC. 

I'd also have child do this reality check from TX. You may not be from TX, and if your state has one, I'd have him do that instead. But this is useful in that it gives kids an idea of how much it costs to live, and then what careers would support that lifestyle.  https://texasrealitycheck.com/

Edited October 2, 2018 by Bambam

[gardenmom5]

if you can't get him to finish high school

I would force them to find a job, and somehow set up a "this is how much it costs to be a grown up".  rent, food, utilities, car, insurance, clothes, entertainment, etc.  when they can't afford what they want, it can give them the incentive to develop marketable skills.   and that's even harder without a high school diploma (homeschool or public), or GED.

[catz]

I might throw a bribe in for finishing high school (help buying a car?  Quarterly finishing parents?).  I'd do the minimum to make it happen.  I like elegantlion's ideas about tying it into a interest or future job.  

If it were a hard no, kid would have a 3 month notice to start paying rent or move out.  If finding a job and staying organized and at least moving forward with baby steps in adulting was too much, I would very quickly be looking at neuropsych testing and psych screening depending on the hold ups.  

[City Mouse]

It really depends on how bad things are.

i grew up with a brother who absolutely refused to do high school. To meet the legal obligations, My dad dropped him off at school every day for two years and watched my brother walk in the front door. Before first period was over, he walked right out the back door - every day. Once he was old enough to officially drop out, he didn't even pretend to go to school. He was so much happier working - even in "dead end" minimum wage jobs. He did move out of my parent's house in his early 20's and 20 years later, he is happy with his life. It isn't the life that I would choose., but my DH has a phrase that he likes to use that I think came from a movie "The world needs ditch diggers too" 

It his case, I do think it would have been much better for my parents to support the idea of a GED.

If you can bribe him to finish up (or give incentives) that is great, but if he refuses to cooperate, you are wasting time, energy, and possibly money for nothing. 

[SKL]

If he's under 18, I would insist on him finishing high school or getting as close to it as possible (if he is very close when he turns 18, it will only make sense to finish).  Is there any chance of graduating him early?

I would have him sit down and budget out the next few years of his life, assuming he pays full expenses upon finishing / quitting high school.  I agree with giving him a financial or other support incentive to finish.  I would tell him he doesn't live with you post 18yo unless he is out of the house working or attending school for a minimum of __ hours per day.

[KungFuPanda]

In the real world you have to do things you don’t want to (like work or finish school) to get what you do want or even survive. I’d tie that diploma to something essential like the internet or car insurance or rent payments. Make it “cheaper” for him to further his studies. It may be that your particular kid has it in him to work more and truly pay his own way.  That might not be so bad.  However, if he can only get by due to a false Parent Economy in your house, you are crippling his future independence. 

If self-study is a bust, you can require that he take, and pay for, a continuing education class every semester. It can be anything that interests him; business, sports physiology, TV production, auto mechanics, wood working, ANYTHING that will accumulate some life skills. Maybe sweeten the deal by offering to pay if he takes, and passes, two or more classes. I’d get him on the slow road to an AA until something clicks for his life. Once he has some college classes and a transcript, nobody is asking about his high school diploma anymore. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by KungFuPanda

[nixpix5]

Can you work in high school completion credits to a bigger overall interest or goal like the gym or YouTube? Doing research and writing about a business plan, a day in the life of someone with this job, steps to getting a business license and starting your own business, making a video about lifting...whatever could motivate to finish credits while meeting the needs of someone interested in these paths. He could use applied math for a faux business model and bookkeeping or applied math for running a household budget and bills. You may need to think way outside the box on this one but I wouldn't let graduation be negotiable if he isn't yet over 18. If you still cannot persuade him or force his hand then the discussion about his adult life choice should include how much money for rent, food and utilities he will be providing. You can take that money, without telling him, and save it for when he launches and needs move in money or start up money for his goals. It isn't about money but teaching accountability at this point. 

[Dmmetler]

You also might want to look at something like the American School with him. That might be a way to get a “get it done” diploma. I’d look for a part-time job that suits his interests, or even volunteering. 

Depending on your state, it can be possible to get a high school equivalency from a community college. It’s worth looking into. 

[73349]

With his interest in fitness, might a career in the Marines or something interest him? That would require him to finish high school and involve lots of fitness challenges.

I might also help him shop around for local apartments and see what is a realistic budget, and see how that compares to his present earnings.

Edited October 1, 2018 by whitehawk

[Scarlett]

38 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

You also might want to look at something like the American School with him. That might be a way to get a “get it done” diploma. I’d look for a part-time job that suits his interests, or even volunteering. 

Depending on your state, it can be possible to get a high school equivalency from a community college. It’s worth looking into. 

Penn Foster is another. 

[Arcadia]

My maternal cousin didn’t like school and has been rebellious towards academics since middle school. His grades in 11th and 12th were low. He went on to community college and was happier there. He is interested in sales since young and is still a sales manager.

My brother went to community college at 16 to pursue an associate in mechanical engineering. It makes more sense for him to get an associate in something he is passionate about than to stay in high school.

Without knowing your son, I would be tempted to get him to pursue an associate degree in business or whatever field interest him. It isn’t rare for public school kids to make use of the school district middle college program to graduate high school with a high school diploma and associate degree. The good thing for completing an associate degree would be that most subjects would be more focus on his interest.

[Scarlett]

How old is he?  My answer depends a lot on that....

[SKL]

I assume he has looked into what the Vo-Ed has to offer?  When my brother was "done" with high school and wanted to be more "out in the world," he found a Vo-Ed program that let him design his own specialization.  Initially he was doing musical instrument repair, and later nursing assistant.  He had to do some core courses (the minimum English & Soc Studies remaining to earn a diploma) and he was given credit for the "work study" hours.  (Which he also got paid for as these were actual jobs.)

[GoodGrief]

His age would be a huge determining factor for me in deciding what course to take. If he is 16 that is a different situation than if he is 18+.

I'd also consider how he uses his time. Is he generally productive, albeit unorthodox, in his use of his day? The impact of his presence and activities on the other kids would be a consideration as well. I would want to get a handle on his mental health too. Is there a learning issue that keeps him from being able to complete a basic program of study? Is there a coping mechanism/workaround for that?

Probably I'd put some effort into incentivizing high school completion. I find that generally to be more effective in getting my kids to do something out of their comfort zone/preferences than punitive measures are. But again, it depends on many factors. High school completion is going to open up so many more opportunities.

In the end, my goal would be to get the kid functional enough to live independently by, say, 21, in whatever way made the most sense.

 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

My son basically dropped out in place (just didn't do the work) his senior year.  It was so painful.  Mercifully, we had done a very good job with planning his schooling, so even with this last disaster, we were able to put together a good transcript--not the one he could have had--and get him entry into two colleges.  He had zero interest in going, and did not go.  One thing we had him do was to finish out the pre-calc class at Brightmont academy.  He LOVED it.  And he got 95%s and so on because he didn't have to do endless repetition of worksheets.  It was completely personalized.  So, he's 23 now.  A mentor took him on and he's part of a startup and he's moved out and it's all a lot better.  That's the very brief version, omitting the endless tears and grief and sense of loss.  

The thing I want to ADD to this conversation is this:  the biggest worry for me between ages 16-18 for a non-conforming kid was that we were 1) legally responsible and 2) powerless to do much.  (No comments from the peanut gallery if you haven't been there.  Thanks.)  I thought very hard about pursuing minor emancipation.  

It really is a bad time period....when they have decided they are an adult and they go about making their own decisions...yet parents are still legally responsible.  My  brother gave my poor mother fits from 14-18.  And even a single mom gets no help from the authorities.  But anyway, sorry to go on about that because it doesn't sound like the OP's ds is on a destructive path...just non conforming. 

 

[theelfqueen]

Yeah... that. Lots of that. I'm EXHAUSTED by it.

51 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

The thing I want to ADD to this conversation is this:  the biggest worry for me between ages 16-18 for a non-conforming kid was that we were 1) legally responsible and 2) powerless to do much.  (No comments from the peanut gallery if you haven't been there.  Thanks.)  I thought very hard about pursuing minor emancipation.  

 

[HS Mom in NC]

My senior year in high school I took College Prep English.  We had to do a research paper about what we wanted to do as adults, including interviewing 2 people who actually did that for a living.  It covered what kind of schooling/training was needed for the job, who was hiring, what the current salary was, related fields....

I had mine read several books about personality and careers/work environments, each from a different angle.  I had them color code each based on their reactions: red for negative, yellow for neutral, and green for positive. Spending time developing self-awareness is worthwhile that this age.

[livetoread]

Like others said, I would try my hardest to come up with an education plan that got him graduated. If he was still refusing to do anything scholastic after my nagging and bribing, I’d tell him if he could pass a practice GED, I’d give him his diploma. That would only be a last ditch effort though, after I was sure he wouldn’t finish high school otherwise.

editing to add that I would not kick him out unless he was being insufferable and hard to live with. If he was working and earning money and reasonably pleasant, I’d let him stay

Edited October 1, 2018 by livetoread

[umsami]

I would try and tailor courses towards his career goals....so for science, do Anatomy and Physiology--as it will help with his personal training goals.  Can he take that at CC? If so, he may decide to go to nursing school or something else in a few years and it would mesh.  Can he do psychology or something along those lines and have it count towards something?  Business math/accounting/etc.  Copywriting instead or English or perhaps an intro to marketing or digital marketing course?

Perhaps if he feels like it's not a waste and will be used for his career, it will help. 

[lmrich]

Finish high school. Earn that diploma. 

[kiwik]

Here the school leaving age is 16 and a lot of kids do still leave then.  Until relatively recently most people left before the final year of  high school.  I would encourage but I don't see being able to force the issue.

[Reefgazer]

If finishing high school is absolutely not gonna happen, I would make sure he got GED at minimum.  In this case, I believe a GED is appropriate.  I would use a bribe to get it done (perhaps assisting him in starting a fitness center?).  This would be a last-resort thing, after maybe dual-enrolling for the remainder of high school.  But if dual-enrolling won't get him to a diploma, then absolutely push that GED.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Reefgazer

[J'swife]

5 hours ago, Reefgazer said:

If finishing high school is absolutely not gonna happen, I would make sure he got GED at minimum.  In this case, I believe a GED is appropriate.  I would use a bribe to get it done (perhaps assisting him in starting a fitness center?).  This would be a last-resort thing, after maybe dual-enrolling for the remainder of high school.  But if dual-enrolling won't get him to a diploma, then absolutely push that GED.

 

This!  I find nothing wrong with going the GED route, especially if he is seriously interested in pursuing personal training. I've known several homeschoolers that have chosen that route and done just fine for themselves.

 

[Scarlett]

I don't belive the OP came back to the thread.  OP a friend of mine had success with her son who wanted to drop out of school by asking him to finish high school for her.  He had a fairly rough year after he did graduate but he is back home and working full time plus at a food service job.  

Another young adult I know had a lot of family problems and for various reasons she was not able to finish her high school courses. She got her GED along with a scholarship to pay for a bookkeeping course which she is now doing from home. If  I didn't have  teen boys in my house I would invite her to live with us bcause she has no parental support.  

So your son, who obviously does have good parental support can do well if he makes a plan even if it is a non traditional plan.  

Edited to add-- my Dh had a terrible time in high school.  But he was making good money in construction so he just dropped out in his senior year.  He told me last night ( when I asked) that he wishes he had at least got his GED.  I think the biggest reason he did not attempt it is because he had reading difficulties.  As an adult he taught himself to read well and by the time he was in his early 30s he broke his back and had to find different work.  He went to college and did very well...4.0 .. And got an associates degree. He could have done that MUCH earlier if he had only finished/got his GED. But he neded help with reading.....as mentioned maybe your son has a similar issue he needs help with.  

Edited October 2, 2018 by Scarlett

[Amy in NH]

Have him take the GED (Hi-SET in NH) and get a full-time job.  He needs a dose of real life to discover for himself what his real passions are so that he has the intrinsic motivation to work toward his own goals.

[Jaz]

I'd go with the minimum you can to graduate him as early as possible. I agree with other posters to create credits based on his interests - CPR certification and shadowing trainers for a Jobs study course, personal finance so he can see how much apartments, car insurance, utilities, etc are in your area. 

[Amy in NH]

Homeschoolers here don't get any sort of accredited diploma unless they are enrolled in a distance learning program which provides one.  Credits really don't matter.

[kiwik]

43 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

Homeschoolers here don't get any sort of accredited diploma unless they are enrolled in a distance learning program which provides one.  Credits really don't matter.

here too.  You have to do The Kura (NZ correspondence school), find a school who will let you do assessments for NZCEA or Cambridge exams or use ACE unless you want to wait until you are 20 to go to university.

[Lori D.]

It's tough to force a kid to finish who is just "done".

I think you might have more success by giving him a big incentive to finish by paying him per course that he finishes. Also consider a sliding scale so the higher the grade, the more the reward. Also, only reward for a C and above, since that is what would transfer to a possible future college, or would count towards a possible future Associate degree. Example:

$500 = community college course with an A
$400 = community college course with a B
$150 = community college course with a C

And pay per semester for the year-long homeschool course
$250 = for the semester with an A
$200 = for the semester with a B
$75 = for the semester with a C

So if he completes the 2 community college classes and the first half of the homeschool course this semester, and does the same next semester, at most it costs you $2500, which he can use towards starting his own business -- and hopefully he will find that incentive enough to do that again for 12th grade, and come out with as much as $5000. In the grand scheme of things, that would be a pretty low expense for you if it gets him to finish his high school diploma AND complete a number of community college courses that might help him towards his future. And, it is *realistic* because that's what we do in real life -- pour time/energy/effort into a job (in this case, school is the "job"), in exchange for a paycheck. Some students need that tangible connection (i.e., $$ in hand) to see the value of spending time on school.

I do agree with above posters, that if he absolutely refuses to finish high school, require the GED so at least has that in hand for future jobs -- because job applications DO want you to either have a diploma (parent-awarded is just as valid as school-awarded), or a GED.

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

[Tina]

On 9/30/2018 at 11:49 PM, cave canem said:

This kid is smart but not at all interested in academics.  First entered public school for 10th grade after homeschooling.  Hated it and wanted to drop out.  Just *hates* school.

His plans for supporting himself seem unrealistic to us for his skill set--things like starting a company in an industry that seems cool but that he doesn't have expertise in and that most people get a specialized degree for or being a youtube personality. He does not want training in any sort of trade.

He has interest in being a personal trainer but may be on the young side for that.  There are also some unhealthy aspects to his fixation on the gym.

Without knowing my kid at all, what do you think your impulse would be in this sort of situation?  Pressure him to finish school?  By withholding something?  Knowing all the reasons we think this idea is terrible has not dissuaded him.

 

  

 

  

I would pressure him to finish, but I would head the unschooling route, too.  Maybe he needs to do a 'class' where he researches starting his own business.  What does it take?  Are there places to get help starting out?  SBA or ??  Map it all out.  Research options for becoming certified as a personal trainer.  (My sister did this online, I think.)  What other career options could he find based on his interests?  Physical therapist, etc?  

Sally Clarkson has some books you could check out for other ideas.

[Tina]

On 10/1/2018 at 2:45 PM, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

My senior year in high school I took College Prep English.  We had to do a research paper about what we wanted to do as adults, including interviewing 2 people who actually did that for a living.  It covered what kind of schooling/training was needed for the job, who was hiring, what the current salary was, related fields....

I had mine read several books about personality and careers/work environments, each from a different angle.  I had them color code each based on their reactions: red for negative, yellow for neutral, and green for positive. Spending time developing self-awareness is worthwhile that this age.

Yes.  There are books out there on careers without a degree, careers with apprenticeships, etc. 

[cave canem]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 4:09 AM, J-rap said:

She's a musician and also was just promoted to managing an entire country club.  (She started as a waitress.) 

This is the sort of thing I could see happening with him. 

Or, starting as a teller and having a management position in a bank branch, if bank teller-ing had not become a college degree job.

[cave canem]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:58 AM, mom@shiloh said:

Ideally, I would say that finishing high school, or at least getting a GED would be a non-negotiable term for continuing to live in your house. 

That is not an option here since he just turned seventeen.  We are not at liberty to make him leave for another year, but we cannot require him to be in school either.

[cave canem]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.  We have been on a roller coaster this month.  For now he is continuing the CC classes and seems to be passing them.  He hasn't looked at the Oak Meadow workbook.

He still threatens to quit school.  We don't react.

The arguments for getting a diploma are well known in our household.  We haven't pushed the GED route, of which he is aware, because he once planned to enlist in the military, and I wouldn't be surprised if he came to that again.

We have talked about mental health evaluation/support with him and he adamantly REFUSES to cooperate with anything like that.  I understand that theoretically he cannot make that decision, but practically I don't see how to effect this without his cooperation.  He loves to tell us that he is only X months away from 18, as if this is meaningful when X doesn't equal zero.

He is not easy to live with.  For my own health I don't think we can allow him to stay after he turns 18 if his behavior doesn't change.  Some days he is eager to leave, but others he says he wants to stay past his birthday.  He has researched places to live and thinks he can make it in his min wage job, but this is a high COL area.  I am skeptical.

He spends a lot of time researching business ideas, but I am not sure whether it is substantive or just browsing entertainment.  I told him we could work up some sort of credit for that he would log what he is doing.  We have offered relevant CC classes.  I have advised him to look into some legal aspects of his intended business, and we could fund some early launching expenses if he would write up what they will be.  He did warm to that for a bit but is now saying he'd rather not have any help.

Thanks for letting me know it isn't crazy to insist on certain minimum achievements.

[cave canem]

On 10/1/2018 at 8:13 AM, PeterPan said:

You might want to let him pursue this further. He only needs to be 18 and he must finish his high school diploma or have the equivalent to do the training. It might take a while to develop a practice that is a living wage, but it might better than you think. Around here, people earn minimum wage at the Y but with that personal trainer cert (1 year thing), they can clock out and do private at $45 an hour. Not shabby for a one year cert in something he actually likes.  Do you know where to get the cert?

When you say his fixation is unhealthy, is it the gym itself (drug use culture, something, whatever that is red flagging to you) or is it that he seems to have a perseverative interest? Have you ever wondered if he was on the spectrum or had ADHD? I can tell you that a LOT of people who work out regularly at the gym are ADHD. Like, not to state the obvious, but that's why they're there. And if you watch a big longer, there's a contingent that is on the spectrum or maybe VERY ADHD with the social thinking deficits that push toward spectrum. I've been told there are some other sports (biking for instance) that attract spectrum.  I haven't had a child without a perseverative interest.  Is this considered bad of itself?  I have never heard of that, but I don't think it is hard to imagine unhealthy interests.  There is no way this kid is on the spectrum, but I suppose attention problems are possible.

I think you can try to take people away from perseverative interests, but they are who they are. Sometimes it's easier to harness it and work with it. If he sees that finishing his high school diploma with you could get him something he wants, he might be more inclined to do it. You might be able to tweak his remaining courses to fit with that personal trainer interest. For instance, it would be pretty logical then to do some anatomy and physiology. He is not going to do any courses like these, or the business-related ones mentioned by other posters.  School has nothing to teach him.

I would give him credits for what he's doing at the gym. Maybe have him do some job shadowing. Maybe have him get a job at a supplement place that caters to bodybuilders. Those people might give him some straight talk too. The people who work out where I work out are pretty successful, focused people. It takes focus and dedication to make a plan and stick to it with your weight lifting, and they carry it over to their personal lives. There's a lot of setting goals and kicking your butt to do it. Might be a GOOD environment for him, because these are people who do hard things. At least where I work out that's the culture. Maybe help him find another gym if where he's going isn't healthy.  We all understand the benefits of working hard toward goals.  A different gym would be nice but hard to find so far.

 

[Lori D.]

I'm so sorry things continue to be rough.  ((((cave canem)))

At the end of the spring semester (or even the end of this fall semester, if it looks like he's NOT doing anything school-wise in the spring), if you can at all legitimately graduate him with a homeschool diploma (have a minimum credit requirement that he has completed between his homeschooling, public school, and dual enrollment), it might help *you* with closure of this stage, and mentally moving him on into his adulthood. And having a diploma would help him work-wise in his future.

But even if things explode or do not finish off neatly or as hoped, please do not beat yourself up. All you can do is make the best choices for you and for your part of the relationship with him. And you have been doing that. You have done everything you can to help him transition from school to life, childhood to adulthood, as best you can, and you do not have control over his choices. (((more hugs)))

Edited October 20, 2018 by Lori D.