setting boundaries with sister's newborn

[catz]

Maybe the OP could drop a freezer meal at her house for a few weeks and to let her know when she's feeling up to a family visit.

With my babies, letting the cousin hold the baby meant asking them to wash their hands, sitting right next them on the couch, putting down a boppy pillow, setting baby on the boppy with a hand on the baby, having big cousin look overjoyed for about 30-60 seconds.  And then say they were done. 

I really think new moms can set whatever boundaries they want.  But parenting a 2, 4, and 6 year old isn't without stress either.  If these visits are stressful for the OP she has the right to boundaries too if her kids can't just be normal kids whenever baby is in range without even getting into baby holding territory.   The OP doesn't get to decide who's going to hold her sister's baby. But the sister doesn't get to dictate how the OP's kids can act in their own home.  

[KungFuPanda]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Who said anything about hosting? My family gets together a lot and no one expects a new mom to host. The price of admission is being comfortable around others and the normal noise of family gatherings. She's not. You don't even have to get to the cousin holding issue; she wants silence.

I agree with you on the silence. She definitely loses that battle. A house with extended family is just noisy. Unless “silence” means “please don’t yell 3 inches from my baby’s ears” she gets no sympathy on that one. 

[catz]

2 minutes ago, omishev said:

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments! The subject actually came up today in church. They sat with us (their choice) as usual. DD ended up sitting between my sister and I. My brother-in-law was holding the baby, thankfully. My sister spent the first half of the service scolding DD for moving around and making noise (there is no children's church for her age in the summer), and she really wasn't that bad but I was on it if she was. Finally when my sister got on her case for chewing too loudly (she was eating raisins!!!) I snapped at her. This is very out of character for me. I have a cold and have my period and spent the whole morning cleaning and cooking (because my in-laws were coming over) despite feeling lousy. So... I snapped at her, "This is my child, I will deal with it. You have been on her case non-stop." We sat is silence for the rest of service but afterwards I apologized for snapping at her and she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. Then we each explained why we were in bad moods today (not that she needs an excuse!!) and proceeded to have a normal discussion. I feel terrible for being so snippy with her when I should be giving her grace right now but maybe it was for the best. I will follow up with her and apologize for DD being a pest and try to figure out a plan moving forward.  

Oh I think you were totally fine!  Berating a kid for chewing raisins and basically just being a kid is over a line.  LOL.  She sounds like she is a bit touchy and it's perfectly acceptable if you have boundaries too.  It sounds like you have a healthy relationship!  Glad you can communicate.

[hippiemamato3]

41 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

The 6-year-old’s behavior issues are not hers to solve OR worth damaging your relationship with your sister. 

The 6 year old does NOT have behavior issues. She is a little girl who wants to love her new cousin. I can't believe the snarkiness of some of the people toward a small child who simply wants to hold her baby cousin.

[hippiemamato3]

7 minutes ago, omishev said:

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments! The subject actually came up today in church. They sat with us (their choice) as usual. DD ended up sitting between my sister and I. My brother-in-law was holding the baby, thankfully. My sister spent the first half of the service scolding DD for moving around and making noise (there is no children's church for her age in the summer), and she really wasn't that bad but I was on it if she was. Finally when my sister got on her case for chewing too loudly (she was eating raisins!!!) I snapped at her. This is very out of character for me. I have a cold and have my period and spent the whole morning cleaning and cooking (because my in-laws were coming over) despite feeling lousy. So... I snapped at her, "This is my child, I will deal with it. You have been on her case non-stop." We sat is silence for the rest of service but afterwards I apologized for snapping at her and she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. Then we each explained why we were in bad moods today (not that she needs an excuse!!) and proceeded to have a normal discussion. I feel terrible for being so snippy with her when I should be giving her grace right now but maybe it was for the best. I will follow up with her and apologize for DD being a pest and try to figure out a plan moving forward.  

You really don't owe her an apology. You do, however, need to stand up for your DD. Your sister isn't being loving toward her at all. 

[KungFuPanda]

6 minutes ago, omishev said:

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments! The subject actually came up today in church. They sat with us (their choice) as usual. DD ended up sitting between my sister and I. My brother-in-law was holding the baby, thankfully. My sister spent the first half of the service scolding DD for moving around and making noise (there is no children's church for her age in the summer), and she really wasn't that bad but I was on it if she was. Finally when my sister got on her case for chewing too loudly (she was eating raisins!!!) I snapped at her. This is very out of character for me. I have a cold and have my period and spent the whole morning cleaning and cooking (because my in-laws were coming over) despite feeling lousy. So... I snapped at her, "This is my child, I will deal with it. You have been on her case non-stop." We sat is silence for the rest of service but afterwards I apologized for snapping at her and she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. Then we each explained why we were in bad moods today (not that she needs an excuse!!) and proceeded to have a normal discussion. I feel terrible for being so snippy with her when I should be giving her grace right now but maybe it was for the best. I will follow up with her and apologize for DD being a pest and try to figure out a plan moving forward.  

You and your sister both sound very very sweet.  I know it’s HARD now, but I’m about five minutes those kids will all be teenagers and ignoring you both. You’ll still have each other to talk to. ? 

My sister and I are in that phase now. It’s like the roles have reversed and we’re begging our kids to pay attention to us. Sisters can be a real blessing. 

[Sneezyone]

It really does sound like she needs a quiet space, a good book, and regular deliveries of hot tea and food. Maybe she's feeling pressured to keep up normal routines and needs permission to hibernate.

[catz]

13 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

The 6 year old does NOT have behavior issues. She is a little girl who wants to love her new cousin. I can't believe the snarkiness of some of the people toward a small child who simply wants to hold her baby cousin.

I don't really get some of the tone in this thread about  OPs kids either.  I haven't seen any indication that these kids aren't being anything but normal sweet kids.  All kids are precious and should have loving, age appropriate expectations.  And not to be treated like annoyances just because there is now a new baby cousin in town.  

I actually think it's super healthy the OP laid down the law a bit on nagging the 6 year old for basically existing.  

[KungFuPanda]

9 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

The 6 year old does NOT have behavior issues. She is a little girl who wants to love her new cousin. I can't believe the snarkiness of some of the people toward a small child who simply wants to hold her baby cousin.

Of course she does. She’s 6! She’s not nearly fully formed in the manners, empathy, or impulse control departments. I didn’t say she was exhibiting abnormal behavior for her age. When you’re six you want what you want when you want it. We can’t just hand them everything to avoid them being sad or learning to cope; especially not newborn babies. 

I feel for her. She actually sounds very sweet. I absolutely understand the mother’s impulse to just want the aunt to give her the baby more. However, since this isn’t a JAWM thread I offered an objective opinion. This doesn’t mean that I don’t adore 6-year-olds or that I’m being snarky. 

[unsinkable]

The best line is the one where the 6 year old can't hold the baby until.she learns to read nonverbal cues.

Hee hee hee! Ha ha ha! Ho ho ho!

/Count Olaf

[marbel]

34 minutes ago, omishev said:

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments! The subject actually came up today in church. They sat with us (their choice) as usual. DD ended up sitting between my sister and I. My brother-in-law was holding the baby, thankfully. My sister spent the first half of the service scolding DD for moving around and making noise (there is no children's church for her age in the summer), and she really wasn't that bad but I was on it if she was. Finally when my sister got on her case for chewing too loudly (she was eating raisins!!!) I snapped at her. This is very out of character for me. I have a cold and have my period and spent the whole morning cleaning and cooking (because my in-laws were coming over) despite feeling lousy. So... I snapped at her, "This is my child, I will deal with it. You have been on her case non-stop." We sat is silence for the rest of service but afterwards I apologized for snapping at her and she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. Then we each explained why we were in bad moods today (not that she needs an excuse!!) and proceeded to have a normal discussion. I feel terrible for being so snippy with her when I should be giving her grace right now but maybe it was for the best. I will follow up with her and apologize for DD being a pest and try to figure out a plan moving forward.  

Your sister scolded your daughter in church while you were sitting right next to her?  For moving around and eating, like a normal kid who isn't used to sitting in church?  Just guessing, obviously, but I wonder if your sister is totally overwhelmed with the new baby and is struggling more than you think.  Is she home alone with the baby all day already or does her husband have some time off work?  (You don't have to answer that, of course.)

[ktgrok]

59 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It really does sound like she needs a quiet space, a good book, and regular deliveries of hot tea and food. Maybe she's feeling pressured to keep up normal routines and needs permission to hibernate.

 

28 minutes ago, marbel said:

Your sister scolded your daughter in church while you were sitting right next to her?  For moving around and eating, like a normal kid who isn't used to sitting in church?  Just guessing, obviously, but I wonder if your sister is totally overwhelmed with the new baby and is struggling more than you think.  Is she home alone with the baby all day already or does her husband have some time off work?  (You don't have to answer that, of course.)

 

Both of these. Honestly, this screams to me that your sister is overwhelmed, trying WAY to hard to get everything perfect for the baby, and is possibly dealing with some post partum depression or anxiety. Time to figure out how you can help her. And reassure her over and over she's doing fine, and the baby doesn't need her to be perfect. That there is no such thing as perfect. 

Could the schedule that worked so well for you be not working for her, and she feels you will judge her on that? Like, she's trying so hard to stick to this perfect schedule because that's what she thinks you did? 

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, omishev said:

she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. 

This is about more than whether or not your child can hold the newborn baby. It seems that overall, parenting boundaries in the family may need a serious reset. If she's been scolding your DD for her entire life, then you need to establish the boundary that doing this is not acceptable, you will correct your daughter if and when you see fit. Everyone will breathe much easier in the long run if everyone is responsible for their own "stuff" and it will free the cousins up to be cousins, the sisters up to be sisters, etc.. I highly recommend the book Boundaries by Cloud & Townsend - it's a great resource.

ETA: I'm glad you told your sister to knock it off today in church. That's what needs to be said. Hopefully the two of you will work together on this. I'm sure she doesn't want you to mother her children any more than you want to mother hers.

Edited August 5, 2018 by TechWife

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, hippiemamato3 said:

The 6 year old does NOT have behavior issues. She is a little girl who wants to love her new cousin. I can't believe the snarkiness of some of the people toward a small child who simply wants to hold her baby cousin.

Yeah, me neither. Some of the things said here about the poor 6 yo have really surprised me. Um, she's 6 and asked one time each visit and was visibly disappointed and touched his feet once and had the audacity to wiggle and chew her raisins during church. Good lord, that's not a behavior problem. 

I think it's just a case of a lot of very small level misunderstandings on both sides. And hopefully it'll all get worked out over time. The 6 yo in question sounds lovely. The sister in question sounds like a normal, tired, unsure new mom who will be fine as she finds her footing. The OP sounds very understanding of both of them and only made very minor missteps of the kind we all make. No one really needs to be scolded.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, omishev said:

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments! The subject actually came up today in church. They sat with us (their choice) as usual. DD ended up sitting between my sister and I. My brother-in-law was holding the baby, thankfully. My sister spent the first half of the service scolding DD for moving around and making noise (there is no children's church for her age in the summer), and she really wasn't that bad but I was on it if she was. Finally when my sister got on her case for chewing too loudly (she was eating raisins!!!) I snapped at her. This is very out of character for me. I have a cold and have my period and spent the whole morning cleaning and cooking (because my in-laws were coming over) despite feeling lousy. So... I snapped at her, "This is my child, I will deal with it. You have been on her case non-stop." We sat is silence for the rest of service but afterwards I apologized for snapping at her and she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. Then we each explained why we were in bad moods today (not that she needs an excuse!!) and proceeded to have a normal discussion. I feel terrible for being so snippy with her when I should be giving her grace right now but maybe it was for the best. I will follow up with her and apologize for DD being a pest and try to figure out a plan moving forward.  

what???? please tell me she was being hyperbolic!  if that was serious and accurate - time for you to step up  and protect your child.  parenting your dd is your job - not your sister's. as has previously been mentioned - boundaries.  time to learn about them, and use them.

[Roadrunner]

9 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

I didn't let anybody hold my first-born.  Probably not for 3 months.   I was just (insanely, jealously) protective of him.  That eventually wore off and I've been much better with the other kids- better at suppressing my desire to rip my baby out of other people's arms, not actually better at not feeling that way.  

I suggest you prepare dd by managing her expectations before sis arrives.  It is irrelevant whether or not she can safely hold a baby.  

 

I was so happy every time anybody came over so I could literary hand over the baby. ? Mine needed to be held all the time, so anybody willing to rock my newborn was welcome to do so for as long as they wanted. In the meantime I got to take showers, brew coffeee, or just say have minimal life one can expect as a new mom. I must be lacking some sort of a defensive mommy gene, but never once I felt any jealousy toward anybody else holding my kid. More the merrier. ?

[omishev]

34 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

 

Both of these. Honestly, this screams to me that your sister is overwhelmed, trying WAY to hard to get everything perfect for the baby, and is possibly dealing with some post partum depression or anxiety. Time to figure out how you can help her. And reassure her over and over she's doing fine, and the baby doesn't need her to be perfect. That there is no such thing as perfect. 

Could the schedule that worked so well for you be not working for her, and she feels you will judge her on that? Like, she's trying so hard to stick to this perfect schedule because that's what she thinks you did? 

I appreciate the comments about pp hormones/anxiety/depression because it really never occurred to me that this could be the manifestation. I had pp anxiety/depression with my first but it manifested differently. 

I actually consider myself to be a Babywise failure. haha! I tried with all but struggled to actually get the babies to fall asleep at the right time and stay asleep for the recommended duration until they were at least 6 months, sometimes 10 months (though I was pretty loose with it at the beginning). At the time it stressed me out and in hindsight I regret being so set on the schedule because it caused me to miss out on sweet moments or be upset over normal NB/baby patterns or lack thereof. It hurts to see her making the same mistakes (IMO) as I did but with an even younger baby. I think she is so desperate for sleep and the promise of a schedule is improved night sleep so that has become her one focus. Please don't make this thread into a discussion on the merits or perils of Babywise!

[fairfarmhand]

Sounds like sis is way overwhelmed and needs to hear “hon, baby’s less than a month old. You can come to church or not. You can come to my house or not. If you have a bad night, it’s fine to rest.” She has an automatic out for at least 6-8 weeks for anything she’s not up to doing. Be the big sister and “give her permission “ to not be okay. 

Some churches and families do have an unspoken pressure to keep up even with newborns. Tell her it’s ok to take time to heal and rest with baby.

and go over the list of ppd. Some people are irritable with it.

[ErinE]

Conversation topics that should be off limits for a three weeks post partum mother:

* How tired she looks and how she should sleep more

* When is she planning on losing that baby weight

* Her parenting methods towards her newborn child when they are perfectly safe

I’m surprised at how many people think it’s normal to pull aside a new mother and tell her she needs to let her niece hold the baby. It’s not appropriate at all this early in the baby’s life. I don’t care about “family culture”. If the mom’s not comfortable letting a young child hold her baby, respect her wishes.

Edited August 5, 2018 by ErinE

[fairfarmhand]

By the way, your sis may be really being hard on herself. She may be really struggling with the realities of life with a newborn and wondering what she's doing wrong. You may need to share some stories about what your experience with your oldest was. She may be saying "Dear me, Big sis managed a newborn and several others and she did fine.What's the matter with me?" Even if you were very transparent, in the fog of post partum and fatigue she may be thinking this.

[ktgrok]

45 minutes ago, omishev said:

I appreciate the comments about pp hormones/anxiety/depression because it really never occurred to me that this could be the manifestation. I had pp anxiety/depression with my first but it manifested differently. 

I actually consider myself to be a Babywise failure. haha! I tried with all but struggled to actually get the babies to fall asleep at the right time and stay asleep for the recommended duration until they were at least 6 months, sometimes 10 months (though I was pretty loose with it at the beginning). At the time it stressed me out and in hindsight I regret being so set on the schedule because it caused me to miss out on sweet moments or be upset over normal NB/baby patterns or lack thereof. It hurts to see her making the same mistakes (IMO) as I did but with an even younger baby. I think she is so desperate for sleep and the promise of a schedule is improved night sleep so that has become her one focus. Please don't make this thread into a discussion on the merits or perils of Babywise!

I promise, not trying to debate the merits, just wondering if it is contributing to her stress to feel she is "failing" at something. Maybe she thinks you did it well, and she can't? Have you told her you were looser in the beginning, have regrets, etc? I have similar regrets, and wish someone had told me it was okay to loosen up, that it wouldn't "ruin" my baby the way the books said it would. 

[vonfirmath]

11 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Just to support OP, it is normal in my family culture for cousins to hold newborns as well. As soon as the cousins met my younger, at 24 hours old, they got to hold her. But - with no prompting on my part my sister had them wash hands, put on a clean shirt, and sit on the couch cross legged (large couch) with a pillow on their lap to lay the baby on. So really, the baby was laying on a pillow, not their arms. And then an adult (my mom or sister, forget who), was RIGHT THERE to make sure the baby was okay. 

They only held her for maybe 15 seconds each, but they were so excited, and it was adorable. 

 

Yeah. My friend came to the hospital with my eldest and brought her kids. (Who were 8 and 12 at the time I think) I didn't think twice about letting them hold my newborn (While they were sitting down). I've got tons of pictures of friends all over the place (location and age) when they were feeding a bottle to one of my babies.

Edited August 5, 2018 by vonfirmath

[ktgrok]

Just now, Arctic Mama said:

Yeah.  Newborns were a cakewalk once I a) wasn’t fighting postpartum depression and b) realized they’re JUST babies and it isn’t nearly so hard as I was making it by being an anxious perfectionist.

Yup. When you think your baby is "bad" and you are dooming them to a life of no impulse control and such, it's really stressful. A zillion diaper changes and sore boobs are hard enough without worrying that you are also contributing to the delinquency of a minor, lol.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, omishev said:

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments! The subject actually came up today in church. They sat with us (their choice) as usual. DD ended up sitting between my sister and I. My brother-in-law was holding the baby, thankfully. My sister spent the first half of the service scolding DD for moving around and making noise (there is no children's church for her age in the summer), and she really wasn't that bad but I was on it if she was. Finally when my sister got on her case for chewing too loudly (she was eating raisins!!!) I snapped at her. This is very out of character for me. I have a cold and have my period and spent the whole morning cleaning and cooking (because my in-laws were coming over) despite feeling lousy. So... I snapped at her, "This is my child, I will deal with it. You have been on her case non-stop." We sat is silence for the rest of service but afterwards I apologized for snapping at her and she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. Then we each explained why we were in bad moods today (not that she needs an excuse!!) and proceeded to have a normal discussion. I feel terrible for being so snippy with her when I should be giving her grace right now but maybe it was for the best. I will follow up with her and apologize for DD being a pest and try to figure out a plan moving forward.  

I’m so glad you told her off for nagging your child, even if it did come out snippy. It sounds accurate and she needs to relax. 

 

[Paige]

2 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

 

Please give her permission to chill and stay home and just be visited.  She sounds like she is doing too much right now.  That sort of irritability isn’t normal, and definitely could be exhaustion, anxiety, or PPD.

I agree she's doing too much, but I don't think her irritability is abnormal. I think it's quite normal because exhaustion, anxiety, and PPD are all very, very normal when baby is so young and irritability is a normal reaction. It doesn't mean it's ok to let your DD be picked on all day, but I would just back off and give her lots of time and space.

I can't believe she took a 3 week old to church- so many people/germs, so much leaky boobs, and so much exhaustion! FWIW, it's also pretty common for pediatricians to tell parents not to let school aged kids touch the baby until they've at least had their first shots. If this is her first, she may be taking it to heart a little more than I would since not letting Baby be around his 4 older siblings is kind of ridiculous.

[EMS83]

On 8/4/2018 at 4:13 PM, marbel said:

 

Sure. I think that is particularly why little girls want to hold babies so much. I do believe there is a maternal instinct. But as an adult, I was happy to hold, care for, and dote on my own infants, but I have never felt the need to hold other peoples'.  Maybe I will feel differently if I have grandchildren.  And, I am pretty confident that if I found myself in a situation where a baby needed me to hold and care for him or her, I would do it without a thought. And I am always happy to hold a baby when a mom/dad needs me to. 

ETA: But people offering the baby to me and saying "do you want to hold him/her?" I am just standing there thinking, "no thanks."  I just don't get that. I mean, can't comprehend why people do that.   

I never would have asked other people to hold my babies, because I loved holding my babies. ?  People had to ask.

 

*edited for clarity*

Edited August 6, 2018 by CES2005

[Daria]

33 minutes ago, Paige said:

I agree she's doing too much, but I don't think her irritability is abnormal. I think it's quite normal because exhaustion, anxiety, and PPD are all very, very normal when baby is so young and irritability is a normal reaction. It doesn't mean it's ok to let your DD be picked on all day, but I would just back off and give her lots of time and space.

I can't believe she took a 3 week old to church- so many people/germs, so much leaky boobs, and so much exhaustion! FWIW, it's also pretty common for pediatricians to tell parents not to let school aged kids touch the baby until they've at least had their first shots. If this is her first, she may be taking it to heart a little more than I would since not letting Baby be around his 4 older siblings is kind of ridiculous.

So much of this is about personality, though.  For some people, feeling isolated is a big part of the stress of parenting a newborn.  I have friends who just wanted to spend that time cocooned at home, and other friends who were desperate to get out.  

[maize]

2 minutes ago, Daria said:

So much of this is about personality, though.  For some people, feeling isolated is a big part of the stress of parenting a newborn.  I have friends who just wanted to spend that time cocooned at home, and other friends who were desperate to get out.  

Yeah, I took a three day old infant to Costco because two days cooped up in a hospital room had just about driven me crazy.

I was back at church the first Sunday with my oldest.

With later babies I stayed home longer but that was primarily about keeping my toddler and preschooler away from the church nursery germs.

[catz]

7 minutes ago, maize said:

Yeah, I took a three day old infant to Costco because two days cooped up in a hospital room had just about driven me crazy.

I was back at church the first Sunday with my oldest.

With later babies I stayed home longer but that was primarily about keeping my toddler and preschooler away from the church nursery germs.

LOL - I made my DH go to a restaurant on the way home from the hospital.  I took my 2nd to family music class with my preschooler starting at 2 weeks.  Everyone has different comfort levels.  Leaving the house doesn't mean you're letting people drool and cough on baby.  My 2nd was born in June, so that was nice.   I got squirrely home with an infant very fast.  

[goldberry]

3 hours ago, ErinE said:

I’m surprised at how many people think it’s normal to pull aside a new mother and tell her she needs to let her niece hold the baby. It’s not appropriate at all this early in the baby’s life. I don’t care about “family culture”. If the mom’s not comfortable letting a young child hold her baby, respect her wishes.

 

I must have missed that, because I didn't see anyone saying it.  Talking to her about not scolding the 6yo for doing normal things, asking when or under what circumstances DD *would* get to hold the baby, if there were any, so that this might be communicated to DD... Did someone say "tell her she needs to let her niece hold the baby."?  Even those of us that don't think it's entirely normal or healthy still think the mom has the right to decide.

[BarbecueMom]

Sounds a lot like major sensory overload.  I struggled with this big time when breastfeeding, to the point that if my own 6yo so much as giggled across the the house, I would start dry heaving.

I finally stopped puking because my kids were happy after weaning.  Now I’m just queasy when they all talk at the same time. ?

[ktgrok]

Another who wanted to go out - but I'm talking a stop for a burger at Wendy's at 2 days old on the way back from the pediatrician. And I was back at the dog park at 5 days old with the last one. But church and crowded close quarters waited a while. But either way, she seems really stressed out. 

[Garga]

On 8/4/2018 at 3:59 PM, goldberry said:

 

I like this response best to the shushing and noise issue.

Regarding the holding, if there is a close relationship as you say,  I would ask her directly, it seems like you don't want DD6 to hold the baby.  Is there a reason for that we can fix, or is there something I can tell her so she will know when she will be allowed to hold her?  In a few months or whatever? I just want to clear it up so DD6 doesn't keep asking until you are ready.

I find the comments that DD6 is feeling inappropriately "entitled" a little weird.  She is a 6 year old who is super-excited about a new baby very close in her life.  Of course she wants to hold her and touch her.   Yes, she should take no for an answer.  Mom can explain, all moms are different and Auntie doesn't want anyone holding the baby.  I know you are disappointed, but you have to listen to your auntie. 

She is full of love, and yes, I think Auntie is making a mistake by derailing what could be a close relationship by not even wanting her to touch the baby.  Auntie has that right, but there is nothing entitled about a 6yo falling in love with a new little cousin.  She's not going up to strangers and trying to co-op their babies.  This is someone who has been part of her family.  Her behavior seems totally normal to me.  

Yeah, the word “entitled” seems like too strong of a word.  I don’t think it’s being “entitled” for her to have assumed she’d hold the baby.  Why in the world would she think she wouldn’t hold the baby?  Her thought process is:  I’ve held babies before. This baby isn’t a stranger; it’s my cousin. Babies like to be held.  I will get to hold the baby!   

I wouldn’t say she’s acting/feeling entitled.  She simply assumed.  As adults, we know it can be a mistake to assume.  But at 6, you don’t know that yet.

New mom sounds pretty normal in her new mom craziness.  Each new mom is different.  I worried constantly about my guy’s safety and creating the perfect little environment for him.  Kids that had seemed small before he was born, suddenly seemed like lumbering, clumsy, germy giants.  They were dangerous!  Stay away giants!

Anyway, I’m impressed that she’s leaving the house at all right now.  And I can understand her being crazy-over protective.  But she can’t tell your kids how to be in their own home.  She might have to wait until baby grows up a little more to come over to your house, or as someone else said, you might want to provide a quiet place for her to sit with baby (for an hour or two if necessary) when she’s at your house.  Instead of chasing your kids away when they’re being lumbering giants, she may need a place to retreat to.

And tell her that if she wants to stay home, that’s fine!  The family won’t be offended!  I’m surprised at how much she’s leaving the house now, though she might be the type who wants to get out.  I preferred staying in.  It was such a crazy hassle to leave the house.  I stayed at home for a good 4 months, happily hibernating.

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

A zillion diaper changes and sore boobs are hard enough without worrying that you are also contributing to the delinquency of a minor, lol.

 

I love that line!!!

[Catwoman]

6 hours ago, omishev said:

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments! The subject actually came up today in church. They sat with us (their choice) as usual. DD ended up sitting between my sister and I. My brother-in-law was holding the baby, thankfully. My sister spent the first half of the service scolding DD for moving around and making noise (there is no children's church for her age in the summer), and she really wasn't that bad but I was on it if she was. Finally when my sister got on her case for chewing too loudly (she was eating raisins!!!) I snapped at her. This is very out of character for me. I have a cold and have my period and spent the whole morning cleaning and cooking (because my in-laws were coming over) despite feeling lousy. So... I snapped at her, "This is my child, I will deal with it. You have been on her case non-stop." We sat is silence for the rest of service but afterwards I apologized for snapping at her and she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. Then we each explained why we were in bad moods today (not that she needs an excuse!!) and proceeded to have a normal discussion. I feel terrible for being so snippy with her when I should be giving her grace right now but maybe it was for the best. I will follow up with her and apologize for DD being a pest and try to figure out a plan moving forward.  

 

Why does your sister assume she has the right to discipline your child? 

You had every right to be annoyed with her — you were right to defend your daughter. 

I don't agree that you need to follow up and apologize for your dd being a pest. Your dd is only 6 years old!  If anyone should be apologizing, your sister should be the one apologizing to your dd for scolding her so much. It’s not her place to discipline your child, particularly when you’re right there with her.

You also mentioned in your OP that your sister scolds all of your children when she is in your home. Why do you allow that? It’s your house and your rules, and it’s not up to your sister to decide how your kids are allowed to behave in their own home.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Catwoman

[Ellie]

On 8/4/2018 at 1:47 PM, omishev said:

I just got so much joy out of seeing the joy it brought other people to hold my babies. I thought this was universal. Apparently not.

"Other people" doesn't necessarily include 6yo children.

Also, I don't understand that thought process anyway. Maybe it's cultural or something. It never occurred to me to let other people hold my babies because it brought me joy. 

[Sneezyone]

Goodness, I loved seeing my grandma, aunts, uncles and cousins hold my babies. Those pics still make me smile, especially as some of them have since  passed. We have a pic of DD(3) holding her baby brother in the hospital. She climbed in bed with me and DH came alongside to help her. It was a special time; she was so gentle and protective. Still is.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Bootsie]

9 hours ago, omishev said:

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful comments! The subject actually came up today in church. They sat with us (their choice) as usual. DD ended up sitting between my sister and I. My brother-in-law was holding the baby, thankfully. My sister spent the first half of the service scolding DD for moving around and making noise (there is no children's church for her age in the summer), and she really wasn't that bad but I was on it if she was. Finally when my sister got on her case for chewing too loudly (she was eating raisins!!!) I snapped at her. This is very out of character for me. I have a cold and have my period and spent the whole morning cleaning and cooking (because my in-laws were coming over) despite feeling lousy. So... I snapped at her, "This is my child, I will deal with it. You have been on her case non-stop." We sat is silence for the rest of service but afterwards I apologized for snapping at her and she apologized for scolding DD so much her whole life. Then we each explained why we were in bad moods today (not that she needs an excuse!!) and proceeded to have a normal discussion. I feel terrible for being so snippy with her when I should be giving her grace right now but maybe it was for the best. I will follow up with her and apologize for DD being a pest and try to figure out a plan moving forward.  

Has this been the case?  Has she been scolding your daughter her whole life? If so, boundary issues seem to be beyond new baby related.

If this had been my daughter and sister, my daughter would not have remained sitting between me my sister for the entire service; I would have been sitting in the middle.  

But, maybe you approach things differently.  I have several friends who grew up in cultures (and choose to rear their own kids in the culture) where all of the aunts and uncles are disckpline all of the kids just as if they are their own.  It seems to work for them (It would drive me crazy).

[Jean in Newcastle]

35 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Goodness, I loved seeing my grandma, aunts, uncles and cousins hold my babies. Those pics still make me smile, especially as some of them have since  passed. We have a pic of DD(3) holding her baby brother in the hospital. She climbed in bed with me and DH came alongside to help her. It was a special time; she was so gentle and protective. Still is.

Sure. But that isn’t the only way to be close to someone. Different family culture. Different ethnic culture. Different personalities. Different babies. 

I personally didn’t mind others holding my babies. Including seated children with supervision. But my first child (who not coincidentally is an Aspie) was super reactive to noise. Unfortunately my MIL and one of dh’s cousins were the kind of people who almost attacked babies in their shrill enthusiasm. They meant well but even as a newborn ds would scream if he heard them coming.  Dd wasn’t as reactive. 

[Sneezyone]

21 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Sure. But that isn’t the only way to be close to someone. Different family culture. Different ethnic culture. Different personalities. Different babies. 

I personally didn’t mind others holding my babies. Including seated children with supervision. But my first child (who not coincidentally is an Aspie) was super reactive to noise. Unfortunately my MIL and one of dh’s cousins were the kind of people who almost attacked babies in their shrill enthusiasm. They meant well but even as a newborn ds would scream if he heard them coming.  Dd wasn’t as reactive. 

 

Well, yes, different, but not at all unusual or unfathomable or strange. Big, close families are often like this. I remember holding my baby cousins when they were little too. Now those babies have babies of their own. ? *cue the circle of life*

[AimeeM]

11 hours ago, goldberry said:

 

Again, this is not a random child or adult, this is a close relative who the mom has been around at least weekly apparently for many years.  There's nothing wrong with putting parameters on it like you describe.  But a 6 year old very close cousin touching a baby's head is not a horrible thing or treating a baby like a doll.

Sorry, I agree with OP.  You (and the auntie) have every right to that behavior, but no, I don't think it's either normal or healthy in the family situation described (close family who know each other well, are around each other often, neurotypical 6 year old, etc.)

 

I'm very close to my middle sister. I still would have been hesitant about my niece holding my sons when they were NBs at about the age the OP's daughter is now -- especially not if there were younger children running around the same area. Even the most well behaved six year olds can be easily distracted and my NBs have had a tendency to randomly startle and "flail" (even when sleeping), which can easily -- in turn -- startle the child holding the baby. One of my boys did it so frequently I rarely let adults hold him until he was many months old. 

This mom is likely running on fumes and little sleep. ALL of my kids have been touch-sensitive when sleeping. Touching them woke them up, even as NBs. And if there was one thing guaranteed to put me on edge as a sleep-deprived mom it was the idea of my sleeping (or even just "content") baby being woken up.

To the OP, I say this gently. Your DD's enthusiasm may be what is unsettling your sister. It would have made me nervous in an already-edgy state of being to have an enthusiastic child wanting to hold my NB, touch my NB, etc. -- no matter how close the relationship. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by AimeeM

[marbel]

7 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Sure. But that isn’t the only way to be close to someone. Different family culture. Different ethnic culture. Different personalities. Different babies. 

<snip>

Right.

But it also doesn't matter - in the context of this thread - what any of us, or other family members, did with our babies.  If the OP was the new mom, and was trying to figure out when it would be safe to let her niece hold her infant, those stories of letting little kids hold our babies might be encouraging. But she's not, so it doesn't matter what any of us did, or what our family culture is like. 

It doesn't even matter what the older sister was like as a new mom. I'm sure I was very different from my sister when we were new moms. And my MIL - I scandalized her with things I did - crazy stuff like breastfeeding past 2 months ("why don't you just give him cereal in a bottle now?"). Even within a family there can be big differences.  

Edited August 6, 2018 by marbel

[Barb_]

I’m really late to this thread but I’ll stick my nose in here at the bottom. 

I think the issue here isn’t whether or not the child is allowed to hold the baby. I think the issue is that the aunt isn’t treating the child kindly or fairly each time she raises her hopes and then crushes them. I think the aunt should be expected to pull the child aside and explain exactly why she doesn’t want to have her hold the baby and reassure her that SHE is still very special to the aunt and always will be.

This poor little girl is being very brave and trying hard to please and every time they visit she is being strung along and then given the message she is no longer important. It stinks and the adult needs to fix it.

[Daria]

41 minutes ago, Barb_ said:

I’m really late to this thread but I’ll stick my nose in here at the bottom. 

I think the issue here isn’t whether or not the child is allowed to hold the baby. I think the issue is that the aunt isn’t treating the child kindly or fairly each time she raises her hopes and then crushes them. I think the aunt should be expected to pull the child aside and explain exactly why she doesn’t want to have her hold the baby and reassure her that SHE is still very special to the aunt and always will be.

This poor little girl is being very brave and trying hard to please and every time they visit she is being strung along and then given the message she is no longer important. It stinks and the adult needs to fix it.

I agree that the little girl is having her raised raised and then crushed, and she needs explanation and reassurance, but I don't see that as the aunt's doing, or the aunt's responsibility.  It seems like mom's job here is to gather her daughter up, snuggle her close and tell her "Becoming a mom is a big change.  It's a wonderful change, but Aunt is still getting used to being Billy's mother.  Sometimes when moms have brand new babies they feel nervous about other people touching them, and we need to respect that.  I remember when I was a brand new mom with a new baby.  Who do you think that baby was?"  and then pull out the photo album, and tell her all your stories about when she was a baby, and throw in some about some silly overly anxious thing you did.   Finish up by saying "Auntie loves you.  She will always love you, but Billy is her own baby, and right now she needs to concentrate on him.  Let's think about some things we can do to help Auntie and Billy so she feels less tired.  Did you know that oatmeal helps new mommies make milk?  Should we make some Auntie and Billy some baked oatmeal to take home with them?  

[Selkie]

Since you said she has been scolding your dd her whole life, it doesn’t sound like this is a postpartum issue. Rather, it sounds like the problem is that your sister is uptight about normal kid behavior. Maybe she will change her tune as her own child gets older and she realizes that little kids aren’t perfectly programmed little robots.

[Barb_]

42 minutes ago, Daria said:

I agree that the little girl is having her raised raised and then crushed, and she needs explanation and reassurance, but I don't see that as the aunt's doing, or the aunt's responsibility.  

If this were a visiting relative from out of state I would agree, but the the aunt has an existing close relationship with the child and owes the child respect. The aunt is the one who is telling the child, “In a little while,” or “later,” rather than setting appropriate boundaries and explaining them. The mother’s job is to back up the aunt’s boundaries, not to make excuses for her behavior. Moms aren’t responsible for smoothing over family mistreatment of their children. That is where long term family dysfunction begins. 

If I were the OP I would pull my sister aside and tell her I understand if she doesn’t want 6yodd to hold or touch the baby, but would ask her to spell out exact what she allowed to do so she understands the rules and reassure her that she is still loved. It isn’t fair to make a little girl (as well as her mom) guess at rules that are completely different than they are used to. The child is being made to feel loud, dangerous and dirty even in her own house. Not cool.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Barb_
Typo

[katilac]

12 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Why does your sister assume she has the right to discipline your child? 

 

 

This could be family culture. The only thing I would regard as unusual is fussing her when mom is right there; otherwise, I have observed many families where aunts and uncles and grannies routinely correct other people's children. It's not a problem if everyone is on the same page. Kid misbehaves, the nearest adult corrects them.  

[SKL]

It strikes me as bizarre to hear "what is the plan for my 6yo to hold your baby."  There is NO obligation for a mother to EVER let a child hold her baby.  That is a privilege to be earned by showing how mature one is.

I don't know the 6yo in question.  Everyone is giving OP the benefit of the doubt that 6yo is totally ready to hold this wee baby.  If it's my baby, I will decide that myself based on how I perceive the 6yo thinks and acts.  She may be a perfectly lovely child but she may NOT appear ready to hold my wee baby.  The fact that she seems unable to be patient about it & unwilling to keep her hands to herself only confirms that feeling IMO.  (Yes I know OP let her hold her siblings, but that is not the same thing.  Small siblings have to put up with each other and share things that aren't generally shared.  Might as well start early.)  Besides, as others have pointed out, this specific baby may react differently than OP's own babies react to stimuli.

I don't understand what the emergency is about the baby holding.  Many of us go through our whole childhoods without ever holding a baby cousin.  In this case, it is likely to happen sometime before 6yo graduates high school, so that's great.

Edited August 6, 2018 by SKL

[Daria]

17 minutes ago, Barb_ said:

If this were a visiting relative from out of state I would agree, but the the aunt has an existing close relationship with the child and owes the child respect. The aunt is the one who is telling the child, “In a little while,” or “later,” rather than setting appropriate boundaries and explaining them. The mother’s job is to back up the aunt’s boundaries, not to make excuses for her behavior. Moms aren’t responsible for smoothing over family mistreatment of their children. That is where long term family dysfunction begins. 

If I were the OP I would pull my sister aside and tell her I understand if she doesn’t want 6yodd to hold or touch the baby, but would ask her spelling out exact what she allowed to do so she understands the rules and reassure her that she is still loved. It isn’t fair to make a little girl (as well as her mom) try to guess at rules that are completely different than they are used to. The child is being made to feel loud, dangerous and dirty even in her own house. Not cool.

She's been a parent for 3 weeks.  She probably doesn't have a clue when she's going to feel ready to let her niece hold the baby, and she doesn't need to sort that out.  She just knows that right now it feels wrong.  At 3 weeks, it's all about getting through today, not long term planning.   

Mom can easily clarify the "later" by saying "let's ask again in a few months", and not as "maybe when your brothers go down for a nap."  Then if auntie changes her mind sooner than that, it will be a pleasant surprise.  Whether or not mom feels that it's normal for aunt set this limit, she needs to act as though she does, so that the little girls sees this as "mommies and daddies like to keep their tiny babies in their own arms ", and not as "there's something wrong with me that I don't get to hold the baby."   She can tell her daughter "In many families, only big sisters and brothers get to hold the baby."  Then if auntie changes her mind next week she can say "Wow, that's really special that auntie asked you to hold the baby.  You must be so important to her." 

[Barb_]

1 minute ago, Daria said:

She's been a parent for 3 weeks.  She probably doesn't have a clue when she's going to feel ready to let her niece hold the baby, and she doesn't need to sort that out.  She just knows that right now it feels wrong.  At 3 weeks, it's all about getting through today, not long term planning.   
 

Maybe you’re crossing my post with others but I didn’t infer there should be a plan for the child to ever hold or touch her cousin, only that the aunt is responsible for clearly and kindly spelling out her current rules and boundaries while reassuring her niece of her love for her. It’s not fair to snap and scold over boundaries that haven’t been clearly spelled out. Children need to be told what to do rather than snapped at after the fact for not figuring it out for themselves.

[Barb_]

Being a new Mom is difficult, I get that. But stress and anxiety don’t absolve one from tending to existing relationships. These families seem to see each other enough that the children are almost like siblings. We would think this was truly odd and borderline cruel behavior if a mother treated her older-born child in the same way. If the aunt is close enough to the child that she scolds her for her behavior, she is a formative authority figure for the child. Her treatment toward the niece is going to affect her greater than if she were a friend of the family or a distant relative

Edited August 6, 2018 by Barb_