setting boundaries with sister's newborn

[omishev]

My sister just had a baby (3 weeks) and my 6yo DD has been sooo excited ever since she found out they were expecting. We are very close and see her at least 2x a week. She has spent a lot of time around my babies so I expected her to be pretty relaxed. But we have seen them four times and DD has only gotten to hold the baby once for about a minute. I thought it was because my two younger sons were around and she didn't want the boys to hold the baby. They didn't even want the kids in the same room as the baby and were on them about being quiet. This has been very disappointing for DD but she has had a good attitude. I have tried to explain to her about babies being fragile and needing to sleep a lot but I think my sister is being ridiculous. DD held her brothers plenty when they were NBs and she was 2 and 4 when they were born. Yesterday my sister brought the baby over during naptime so the boys were sleeping so I thought this would finally be a good visit but DD still wasn't allowed to hold her. My sister wouldn't even let her touch the baby's feet because "she was suppose to be sleeping" and again was on DD's case about being quiet and not getting too close. I did Babywise so I get it, I was really into naps but....I feel like this is extreme.

At this point I think the visits are doing more harm than good. My sister is just getting irritated with my kids for making any noise or getting too close to the baby. And my DD is newly disappointed every time that she doesn't even get to touch the baby and is constantly scolded and shooed away. I know as a a mom my sister needs to set boundaries to protect the best interest of her baby. She is doing what she thinks is best for the baby. But at the same time, I feel like I might need to set some boundaries too. Suggestions?

[omishev]

She is a first time mom but since she has spent so much time around my babies I expected her to be pretty chill. She has seen my DD love on her baby brothers with no harm done. My kids are the oldest on both sides of the family and we didn't really have friends with kids yet when we had our first so there were no kids around my first newborn. Maybe I would have been that crazy too. 

We have always hosted family dinner on Friday nights. My parents, brother, sister and her hubby (and now baby) come over. I don't want to uninvite them but.... I feel like we need to have a talk.

[Paige]

The baby is 3 weeks old, so your sister is still probably all hormonally wrecked even if it was the most perfect birth ever. I'd try to give her some grace and just go along with whatever she wants. If she's still acting like this when the baby is 6months old, then maybe it'd be worth saying something, but right now I'd let it go. 

You might want to ask your sister if she wants some space for a while because it seems like your kids are stressing her out. 

[TheReader]

What Arctic Mama said. 

If this is your sister's first baby, and it sounds like it is, then she gets to decide contact level, etc. Well, even if it's her tenth baby. 

I'd talk with your daughter about how every mom has different rules for their baby, and how you know she loves her new cousin, but her aunt wants the baby left alone, and teach your dd that she should wait to be invited to touch/hold the baby (especially if baby is sleeping), and that as baby grows up and becomes awake more of the time, playing, etc. her aunt will probably (hopefully) let them interact more. Until then, though, she has to "look but not touch" unless her aunt invites her to do so. 

In the meantime, maybe you can come up with an activity for your dd for when the baby is over? Maybe she can read the baby a book while your sister holds the baby? Color a picture "for the baby" to take home (maybe find a coloring book with a theme that matches the baby's nursery...?)? Remind her that babies need their sleep, and since this baby doesn't live in a house with big sisters and big brothers, she's not used to noise, tickles, touching, etc. so wakes up more easily than her brothers did, so even though the baby is visiting your house, she still needs to follow her aunt's rules.

And maybe you and your sister together can invest in a separate pack & play, bassinet, etc. that baby can sleep in at your house to be a little less tempting than being held. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I would tell sister to not come over until she was comfortable having her baby around your kids.  It's her right to choose her holds her child, but it is not her right to scold your kids in their own home for just being kids.

[marbel]

2 minutes ago, ChocolateReignRemix said:

I would tell sister to not come over until she was comfortable having her baby around your kids.  It's her right to choose her holds her child, but it is not her right to scold your kids in their own home for just being kids.

I agree with this. Your sister should stay home if she doesn't want people around her baby.

So I think I would say something like "hey, it seems like my kids are stressing you out with the new baby. Maybe we should take a break from the Friday night dinners for a while, till you feel more comfortable."  If she protests, you can go deeper with "I understand you are doing what is best for your baby, but I am not comfortable telling my kids to be quiet and tiptoe around their own house."  I would say everything gently and with a smile, because she is probably very sensitive right now and might easily be offended.  Put it in terms of her comfort but also be firm that your kids have to be able to live in their own house.  I wouldn't bring up how disappointed your daughter is, because, well, that's not your sister's problem, though in the future she may regret being so strict about your kids.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

You don’t get to set boundaries over HER newborn. It doesn’t matter if you think that she’s overprotective etc (which I agree that she is as a new mom). 

You do get to set boundaries over YOUR kids. As in you can request that dhe be kind to them in general and reduce visits if you feel like the visits aren’t good for them. 

Boundaries are there to protect people. They aren’t there to force someone else to do things the way you want them done. 

[freesia]

I agree with the pps. 

I would also resay that I think you need to chill a bit about your dd getting to hold or touch the baby. This doesn't need to be such a big deal. I sense maybe your sister is getting irritated that it is still an issue. I think you need to be clear with dd that auntie doesn't want her to touch the baby yet and to stop asking or trying. Don't be all apologetic-- just matter of fact that different moms are different. Then send her out if the room if she tries. Tell sis that it completely in her court to decide when she is comfortable. Your dd will be fine and the cousin relationship will be fine  

The noise thing is tough. My guess is that sis is exhausted and on sensory over load. 

[regentrude]

I am puzzled about the title - these are your sister's boundaries, since she has the right to decide who gets to hold her newborn. She is not required to be "chill" and let other children hold her baby. I wonder how your DD developed the expectation that she should be holding her cousin and should ask repeatedly even if she has been told that her aunt does not want her to. 

I sympathize with your sister being worried about sleep, and it would never occur to me that people should wake a sleeping baby just so they can touch it. My baby had colic, I ran on almost no sleep for months, and the minutes the baby actually slept were sacred. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by regentrude

[ErinE]

I wouldn’t disinvite the sister. It seems a harsh step to take towards someone we can recognize is adjusting to her new reality. It’s only been three weeks! Offer her a room if she needs quiet for the baby. I’ve never been to a family gathering where people where expected to be quiet while the newborn slept, but quiet rooms were always offered to mothers who might need it.

 

As far as your daughter, I’d just ask her to wait to hold the baby. It’s tough with your DD being so young and excited but the mother’s preferences should prevail for a baby so new. If this goes past two months, I’d recommend having a chat with your sister in a neutral area, like a park or a coffee shop. But it’s way too soon to “set boundaries” on your post-partum sister regarding her newborn child.

Edited August 4, 2018 by ErinE

[bolt.]

I think you will be happier if you find a soft spot for your sister’s nerves and rules about her baby. Parents are so different. It’s really important to respect her. If she thought that it was bad luck for people wearing blue to hold her baby: it’s still important to respect her.

Expecting a full-on quiet zone is a bit too much of a challenge, given the ages of your children — but her other plans about not letting kids hold the baby are within normal ranges, and quite rational.

You might also ask yourself why you think she doesn’t have good reasons for her limits. She isn’t raising your kids. This baby has different ‘settings’ than yours might. It be sensitive, colicky, or have special needs. At this no one knows anything about the baby except the mom’s gut feel. It’s worth wondering why (other than your dd6’s hurt feelings) you don’t think her requests are reasonable or her precautions are necessary.

[Lanny]

Your sister may be damaging her relationship with your DD6.  Worse yet, she may be damaging your DD6.

If your DD6 is seated when she is holding the baby, she should be fine.

It may be that in 6 years, your sister will want your DD who is now 6 to babysit for the newborn and your DD  who is now 6 will remember this and not want to babysit.

Protect your DD 6.  I understand your sister wanting to protect her baby, but if your DD6 is loving and careful, which I suspect she is, there should be no risk to the baby.

[Ellie]

See, *I* wouldn't want another child holding my baby, either. I know that lots of people let their older children hold their younger children, but I.just.can't.

Since you asked, I would tell you to respect your sister's wishes and tell your children to back off. that they will have plenty of time to play with their little cousin when she's older, and that they don't need to hug all over the baby right this minute, and all of this without in any way making your sister seem to be in the wrong. In fact, take the initiative and be direct with your children about backing off before your sister has to.

This, too, shall pass. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just now, Lanny said:

Your sister may be damaging her relationship with your DD6.  Worse yet, she may be damaging your DD6.

If your DD6 is seated when she is holding the baby, she should be fine.

It may be that in 6 years, your sister will want your DD who is now 6 to babysit for the newborn and your DD  who is now 6 will remember this and not want to babysit.

Protect your DD 6.  I understand your sister wanting to protect her baby, but if your DD6 is loving and careful, which I suspect she is, there should be no risk to the baby.

Nonsense (in my opinion). No child is going to be damaged by not getting to hold a newborn. 

[regentrude]

5 minutes ago, Lanny said:

Your sister may be damaging her relationship with your DD6.  Worse yet, she may be damaging your DD6.

How on Earth is it damaging to a kid not to be allowed to hold a baby? Where does the notion even come from that she is entitled to hold a newborn? 

Kids are not damaged by not being allowed to do certain things. They can learn to accept that "no" means "no".

Edited August 4, 2018 by regentrude

[RootAnn]

Agreeing with most of the PPs that your sister can insist on anything she likes since it is her baby. Also agree that perhaps your sister not visiting with you & your kids for awhile might be the way to go. In addition, if your sister insists on quiet, you & your kids should attempt to accommodate. (I was the same way with dd#1 both because she was my first & because she had crazy colic & sleeping issues.)

Gently, just because your sister was around your kids doesn't mean she has had one of her own before. Being an aunt & being a mom are completely different. (Even though my sister claims she practically raised my SIL's kids herself. She isn't The Mom.)

Note I'm going to winky smiley this so you see the joke:  ? Perhaps your dd can look forward to holding a baby (sibling) in around 10 months?

[Lanny]

12 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How on Earth is it damaging to a kid not to be allowed to hold a baby? Where does the notion even come from that she is entitled to hold a newborn? 

Kids are not damaged by not being allowed to do certain things. They can learn to accept that "no" means "no".

 

I agree with you that she is not "entitled" to hold a newborn.

I think, based on her past, with her younger siblings, that she can do this.

The mother is 100% correct to be concerned for the safety of her baby, and can place a requirement that DD6 be seated on the Sofa or in a big chair, before she is allowed to hold the baby and cannot stand up or walk around, while holding the baby.

And I agree that "no" is a word children need to respect.

[EKS]

I don't see why a 6yo needs to hold or touch a newborn.  Just tell your daughter that she will have to wait until the baby is bigger, that you will let her know when the baby is big enough, and that she is not to ask.  End of discussion.

Heck, I don't touch or ask to touch another person's baby unless the parent brings it up--and I'm an adult.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

In fifteen years, 6yo dd can hold all the babies she wants, that she brings into the world or that she is hired or volunteers to care for. It would be very natural and normal and nice for auntie to let her hold the baby now and then, but it's hardly a right, or a necessity for child development! I agree with Jean. This part of the problem is a lot of nonsense.

I would speak very frankly (but kindly) to Sis, in the moment next time. If she is telling the toddler and preschooler that they have to leave the room, speak up in a mild tone. "Sis, Billy and Tommy don't have to leave the room." If Sis is shooing and scolding dd6, you intervene, with dd: "Patty, auntie said you may not hold the baby. It's time for you to stop asking." And then say to Sis, "I'm sorry, she is trying to remember." If Sis persists with, "Make her leave the room, she's disturbing the baby!" tell her that you aren't going to do that, the children live here and we will all work on getting along.

You have to be the mom and the big sister in this situation.

If she doesn't like it, she may take baby home where there are no cousins, and hopefully come back soon.

 

 

[Lawana]

I am concerned that the 6yo may be getting the message that she is entitled to touch and hold another person. Of course a newborn can’t  express autonomy for herself, and requires the physical care be done by another, but the mother absolutely has the right to establish autonomy on behalf of her baby. The mother of the 6yo needs to be teaching her children to respect autonomy, not feel entitled to violate it, even if it is a newborn baby. 

[WendyLady]

When my oldest dd was born, we lived near my husband's older brother and his family.  He had 3 kids from about 1-7 years old.  They were a lot of fun, but I also had reservations about how much responsibility and freedom they gave their oldest daughter.  She was like a little mama, carrying around the toddler and doing lots of grown up things - bouncing the older baby on her hip, getting the baby/toddler out of the crib, even changing diapers!!  It was cute in their family, but I didn't want her to be the mama to my new precious baby.  I know my sil saw it as maturity and independence and teaching her daughter to one day be a mother, but I felt like her oldest was still very young... 

I'm sure I was the emotional crazy sister in law who didn't let the kids hold the new baby and offended the kids and adults...  I know that we took a break from family gatherings for a while - it just stressed me out to be around so many little ones who wanted to touch and hold my perfect only baby. And if I finally got the baby to sleep and one of the older kids started screaming and the baby woke up, I would practically be in tears!!  I know I relaxed (a little) as the baby got older, and by the time I had my own 3rd baby I totally had my oldest daughter holding and rocking and helping all over the place!  

Things are just different when you have your first baby.  Things change in ways you don't expect.  Hormones.  No sleep. Trying to figure out things that seem to come so easy to everyone else. Whew!  It is just a hard time.  It would be a kindness if you could just love on your sister and let her lead the way with how she wants her baby to be cared for.  Be gentle with her!!  She will learn, too!

*one more story about my sister in law.  She offered to babysit so we could go on a date when our oldest was a few months old.  I imagined that she would be ready to fully focus on my precious perfect only baby.  When we got there to drop off the baby, she had the entire neighborhood at her house for a cook out.  Kids and pets running in and out of the house, the sprinkler on for the kids to run through, etc.  I was in shock!  I know now that of course she could hold a baby and still talk with her friends and keep and eye on the kids, but at the time I was completely shell shocked!  How could she offer to babysit my one perfect baby and have other things going on...  It honestly took me having my second, third, or 4th baby to really appreciate what a great mom my sil was/is.  When I had just one baby, I thought she was crazy!!  So much chaos going on at her house!!  Now I can see that she is awesome at juggling a lot of things and she is a wonderful hostess who welcomes everyone.  - it just may take your sister a while, even years, to see how amazing you are!! 

(as I'm writing this, my oldest is 24 years old.  Those early memories of babies stay with you all your life!)

 

[Guest]

I do think, since it sounds like the OP has a close relationship with this sister, OP should be able to say (without the kids around), “Sister, you’re acting like a nutjob. My daughter isn’t going to shatter your baby into a thousand pieces by touching her feet.” I agree that no cousin or auntie or anybody has a right to hold or touch the baby, but if it’s that stressful to New Mom, she needs to just stay at home and limit her interactions to her own house where she can invite or not invite people in however she likes. 

I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if New Mom feels pressured into going and then it stresses her out. I certainly did feel pressured into taking my babies to the family dinners and then it was miserable for me because my baby was colicky. 

[Penelope]

Agree with others.

Its her first baby, it’s only been three weeks, and unless sister herself promised the six year old she could hold the baby, that shouldn’t have been the expectation. 

Also, older siblings holding the baby isn’t the same thing as a cousin. It just isn’t, even with how close you all are. 

Dd needs to stop asking sister. When baby is a little older, maybe you could ask again for her. But also agree that children should not have to be super quiet for a sleeping baby, especially if sister understandably wants to keep baby right with her among the rest of the family. Sister is being too sensitive. 

[Just Kate]

I’m just guessing here (although I’m not the OP so I really have no idea), but I bet that the aunt has been a very important part of the 6yo’s life. Like maybe the doting auntie with no kids of her own. They probably spent a lot of time together and when the aunt found out she was expecting, it was probably a very exciting thing for the 6yo. Since the 6yo is the oldest child, she probably feels very big herself! Now that the baby is here, I bet that the 6yo just assumed that she would get to be part of sharing in this new baby just like all of the other relatives. It is probably disappointing to her that she’s not able to. 

I absolutely think that the OP needs to respect her sister’s wishes about the baby. However, if they are close, maybe the OP could have a talk with sister just to explain that the 6yo is feeling hurt.  She could do it from the perspective of not trying to change sister’s mind, but just letting sister know, since I bet she has always had a special relationship with her 6yo niece  

I could also be completely wrong about my assumptions! Just guessing...

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

Maybe don't call her a nutjob LOL. Ask her questions, get her to open up. But don't name call a mom in a presumably sensitive state.

Yeah, well, I’m a middle-aged woman who is past sugar-coating it, lol! 

The thing bugging me most in the OP was that New Mom doesn’t want the 6yo to touch the baby’s feet. Really? That’s pretty absurd. 

[Arcadia]

There are so many possibilities 

- sensory overload from lack of sleep so any noise triggers an emotional response, might not be as severe as postpartum depression but still bad

- baby is “picky”. DS13 did not allow anyone to carry him, He squirms even if my husband carried him as a baby. DS12 let strangers carry him, even a chef at a korean family restaurant when he was a month old

- family culture, both my husband and my side believe in not carrying relatives’ babies until their neck is stiffer which can be two to four month old babies. DS13’s neck was floppy until he was four months old. Its to prevent hurt feelings if baby wasn’t carried “properly”. 

My maternal aunt has four kids and her youngest was three years older than me. None of her children carried me until I was at least six months old, even her oldest who was twelve years older. My brother is nine years younger than me and my cousins would carry him as a baby only if my mom or me passed him over to one of them. My aunt and cousins babysat me for free and we are still on very good terms.

[Sneezyone]

I babysat the 2-yo child of a first time mom this week, a child who has only ever been in the care of grandma, mom and dad. I get texts multiple times a day from mom AND dad (who's out of state!) asking for pics and info about his day. I have another little boy coming next week (the two will overlap by a week) and this mom is FREAKING OUT that there will be another child in the same house with "the baby". Honestly, while I empathize, this 'concern' is wearing me out. This is not normal. I think some healthy boundaries are in order (and I should be taking my own advice but I had no idea this family would be so 'concerned'). Mom should keep the baby home until she's more comfy with life as most of us know it (and I say this as someone who wore my babies pouch-style to discourage stranger-contact).

Edited August 4, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Bambam]

My baby, I set the boundaries for my baby. Your baby, you set the boundaries for your baby. I really don't care what others thought I should do/not do with my baby or what they should be able to do/not with my baby, I get to set the rules. My husband and I. Not my mom. Not my dad. Not my older sister. Not my MIL. Not my FIL. 

I would respect my sister's boundaries for her newborn. I will instruct my children to respect those boundaries. I'd explain to dd6 that Aunt doesn't want her to hold the baby, so we need to respect that. Maybe later Aunt will let her.  Do not nag Aunt about this. She doesn't want the children touching her baby, I would instruct my children not touch the baby.  As for quiet,  I would try to keep the children quiet in her house, but if they become noisy, I'd say, "I'm sorry, Sister. My kids are having trouble keeping quiet. I'd love to stay and visit, but I can see this is bothering you and new baby, so let's try again sometime soon." If this were my house, I'd say roughly the same thing. 

My older sister wanted to boss me around/define the rules. I ignored them. We are adults now, sister, so give it up. 

[hippiemamato3]

We  had a very similar situation when our nephew was born. Our DS was 6 at the time and had previously been the apple of his uncle's eye. Suddenly he was too loud, too everything...it really did damage to their relationship, long after we pointed out the problem and the uncle (sort of)  tried to patch things up. I should also say that this DS is not loud, not crazy, and was completely respectful. 

7 hours ago, Just Kate said:

I’m just guessing here (although I’m not the OP so I really have no idea), but I bet that the aunt has been a very important part of the 6yo’s life. Like maybe the doting auntie with no kids of her own. They probably spent a lot of time together and when the aunt found out she was expecting, it was probably a very exciting thing for the 6yo. Since the 6yo is the oldest child, she probably feels very big herself! Now that the baby is here, I bet that the 6yo just assumed that she would get to be part of sharing in this new baby just like all of the other relatives. It is probably disappointing to her that she’s not able to. 

I absolutely think that the OP needs to respect her sister’s wishes about the baby. However, if they are close, maybe the OP could have a talk with sister just to explain that the 6yo is feeling hurt.  She could do it from the perspective of not trying to change sister’s mind, but just letting sister know, since I bet she has always had a special relationship with her 6yo niece  

I could also be completely wrong about my assumptions! Just guessing...

 

 

This. 100% this. And just because she's 6 doesn't mean that her feelings aren't valid and worthy of notice. If this was my sister, I'd be telling her that we're taking a break because DD is hurt. And MY child's feelings are important too. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by hippiemamato3

[Lanny]

I am retracting what I wrote before.  I reread the OP again. The mother is correct to want to protect her baby.  There is always risk. There are 3 small children in the home of the OP.  That increases risk.  I feel bad for DD6 of the OP, but the mother has a right to protect her baby as she chooses. 

ETA: Possibly the OP can as she and others suggested in this thread, limit the number of visits.

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Lanny
added ETA

[Roadrunner]

This discussion is strange to me on so many levels. It’s one thing to not want a sleeping baby to be touched (we all know that one), but quite another to look at your 6 year old niece and not let her hold a baby with supervision for couple of minutes at least. It’s just bizarre to me. And why is everything about rights of people and boundaries. I don’t know. Maybe it’s a cultural thing.  She is your sister. I would just ask her, “is it OK to let so and so hold a baby with supervision for a couple of minutes? She is exited about having a cousin.” I can’t imagine at least in my culture and in my family for anybody mentally sane to say no. I am emphasizing under supervision part because I know many could worry about dropping the child. 

[gardenmom5]

It doesn't matter if your sister is a first time mom - or an experienced mom.  her baby, her choice.

why does your dd think she has a right to hold *your sister's* baby?  based on what you have said, it sounds like that expectation is being fed by you. (that she held her younger siblings is irrelevant) that needs to stop.  not your baby, not your choice.   you are the one setting your dd up for disappointment by feeding that expectation.  you need to sit your dd down, and explain the reality is - your sister doesn't want her to hold her baby yet, and you and your daughter are going to respect her choice for her infant.  (just as when your dd is a grown up and has her own baby - you will respect her choices for her baby.)  respecting other people's choices will be good for your dd to learn - so she will get the message her choices also have an expectation of being respected when they concern herself.

the boundaries you can set are: 

•  suggest if your children's noise is bothering her so much - perhaps she come over when the baby is awake so their normal child noise won't bother the baby.  (that babies this age sleep all the time . . . . )  or she can put the baby down for a nap in your bedroom and the kids can stay out.
• she has no right to tell your children, in your home, they have to leave a room (unless it's a bathroom, or a bedroom to which she's been given use to care for baby), or be quiet from normal play.  (if they are being exceptionally loud - perhaps you could suggest they go play outside if they want to use outside voices.)

and I get it with the ridiculous demands of new moms.  2dd wants everyone to have a recent dpt vaccine before they even come to her house.   (i figure part of that is she works in a hospital.)

[Daria]

I'm probably going to seem like one of those crazy mothers of firstborns, but it was very important to me, from an early age, that my kid understood that we only touch people with their consent, or in the case of a tiny baby, with their parents' consent.  

I'd look at this as an opportunity to teach my six year old about healthy boundaries, and respecting "no".  I'd be reviewing with her before the visit that this is Auntie's baby and Auntie's already told her that she doesn't want her touching the baby, so she needs to respect that and not ask or get close enough to touch, and then I'd enforce that limit.  

 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, OKBud said:

 

I agree with this, and I'd assume it's a hormonal problem. Maybe "problem" is too strong a word, but I'd definitely talk to your sister about how that flood of hormones that helps momma protect baby can get out of hand. 

Incidentally, my post-partum depression manifested by making me FURIOUS whenever anyone wanted to touch my baby. Just a thought.

Yup, if this is really out of character behavior, I'd be concerned there is some PPD going on. Ask her how she's doing, reassure her what a great mom she is, etc. Sounds like she's very stressed out, and I'd be addressing that more than anything. 

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Yeah, well, I’m a middle-aged woman who is past sugar-coating it, lol! 

The thing bugging me most in the OP was that New Mom doesn’t want the 6yo to touch the baby’s feet. Really? That’s pretty absurd. 

Agreed, not letting a cousin touch the feet for a moment, and then shooting people in their own homes while the baby "should" be sleeping but isn't sleeping is a bit bonkers to me. 

16 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

This discussion is strange to me on so many levels. It’s one thing to not want a sleeping baby to be touched (we all know that one), but quite another to look at your 6 year old niece and not let her hold a baby with supervision for couple of minutes at least. It’s just bizarre to me. And why is everything about rights of people and boundaries. I don’t know. Maybe it’s a cultural thing.  She is your sister. I would just ask her, “is it OK to let so and so hold a baby with supervision for a couple of minutes? She is exited about having a cousin.” I can’t imagine at least in my culture and in my family for anybody mentally sane to say no. I am emphasizing under supervision part because I know many could worry about dropping the child. 

Maybe suggest to sister (after asking about how SHE is doing, mood, etc) if we could schedule the next visit when it isn't baby's nap time, since that seems to be an issue. And are there any special precautions, or an age, that she wants followed for DD to hold the baby? Like, wash hands and change into a clean shirt first, and do it on the couch with an adult sitting with her? 

[gardenmom5]

59 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I babysat the 2-yo child of a first time mom this week, a child who has only ever been in the care of grandma, mom and dad. I get texts multiple times a day from mom AND dad (who's out of state!) asking for pics and info about his day. I have another little boy coming next week (the two will overlap by a week) and this mom is FREAKING OUT that there will be another child in the same house with "the baby". Honestly, while I empathize, this 'concern' is wearing me out. This is not normal. I think some healthy boundaries are in order (and I should be taking my own advice but I had no idea this family would be so 'concerned'). Mom should keep the baby home until she's more comfy with life as most of us know it (and I say this as someone who wore my babies pouch-style to discourage stranger-contact).

that's a child who desperately needs a younger sibling.   the parents wont' have the energy to do that for two children  . . . they'll be forced to chill a bit.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

The thing bugging me most in the OP was that New Mom doesn’t want the 6yo to touch the baby’s feet. Really? That’s pretty absurd. 

According to the OP "the baby was supposed to be sleeping".  What *I* find absurd is people thinking it is fine to wake a sleeping baby just because they want to touch him. As the sleep deprived mom of a non-sleeping baby, I would have gone ballistic if anybody had woken my baby during one of her rare naps just because they wanted to touch her.

I find it rather absurd that people have the compulsion to touch another person's feet and that this urge is considered normal just because it's a baby.

Edited August 4, 2018 by regentrude

[omishev]

4 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You don’t get to set boundaries over HER newborn. It doesn’t matter if you think that she’s overprotective etc (which I agree that she is as a new mom). 

You do get to set boundaries over YOUR kids. As in you can request that dhe be kind to them in general and reduce visits if you feel like the visits aren’t good for them. 

 

Oh yeah I wasn't going to insist she let my daughter hold her baby, that's her decision!

[marbel]

12 minutes ago, regentrude said:

<snip>

I find it rather absurd that people have the compulsion to touch another person's feet and that this urge is considered normal just because it's a baby.

This cracked me up.  I do agree.  I understand little girls wanting to hold babies - most little girls I have known love to hold babies, gaze at them, kiss them.  It's very sweet... but it still doesn't mean they should get to do it all the time.  I also understand new mothers not necessarily wanting little girls to hold their babies.  Neither response is wrong.

I do wonder that people feel they have to touch babies all the time. I think this came up in a recent thread though I don't think it started out about holding/touching babies. Babies are not like goats and lambs in a petting zoo.  (That could probably start a whole other discussion.)  

Note I am not saying that OP and/or her daughter wants to treat her sister's infant like a goat kid in a petting zoo!  It's just what came to mind from reading this thread. 

Maybe I don't get it because I don't love holding/touching/patting babies.  I like babies, I like kids. I just don't get why people, particularly adults, feel like they need and deserve to touch other people's babies.

Edited August 4, 2018 by marbel

[omishev]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

According to the OP "the baby was supposed to be sleeping".  What *I* find absurd is people thinking it is fine to wake a sleeping baby just because they want to touch him. As the sleep deprived mom of a non-sleeping baby, I would have gone ballistic if anybody had woken my baby during one of her rare naps just because they wanted to touch her.

I find it rather absurd that people have the compulsion to touch another person's feet and that this urge is considered normal just because it's a baby.

So maybe some of us have different opinions about what kind of noise/touch babies can sleep through? At 3 weeks there is a lot of gray area between asleep and awake. It was probably my fault for suggesting the feet. DD wasn't allowed to hold her so she was gently stroking her head. Sis didn't like that so I suggested she touch her feet, thinking that would be a safe alternative. I didn't think it would disturb her.

[omishev]

5 minutes ago, marbel said:

This cracked me up.  I do agree.  I understand little girls wanting to hold babies - most little girls I have known love to hold babies, gaze at them, kiss them.  It's very sweet... but it still doesn't mean they should get to do it all the time.  I also understand new mothers not necessarily wanting little girls to hold their babies.  Neither response is wrong.

I do wonder that people feel they have to touch babies all the time. I think this came up in a recent thread though I don't think it started out about holding/touching babies. Babies are not like goats and lambs in a petting zoo.  (That could probably start a whole other discussion.)  

Note I am not saying that OP and/or her daughter wants to treat her sister's infant like a goat kid in a petting zoo!  It's just what came to mind from reading this thread. 

Maybe I don't get it because I don't love holding/touching/patting babies.  I like babies, I like kids. I just don't get why people, particularly adults, feel like they need and deserve to touch other people's babies.

I just got so much joy out of seeing the joy it brought other people to hold my babies. I thought this was universal. Apparently not.

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, omishev said:

So maybe some of us have different opinions about what kind of noise/touch babies can sleep through? At 3 weeks there is a lot of gray area between asleep and awake. It was probably my fault for suggesting the feet. DD wasn't allowed to hold her so she was gently stroking her head. Sis didn't like that so I suggested she touch her feet, thinking that would be a safe alternative. I didn't think it would disturb her.

You may have had babies who were good sleepers, could sleep through noise and commotion, through being touched.

Some of us are not so blessed.

ETA: And for some babies, there is no grey area between sleep and awake. Sleep is when they finally don't cry. Easy to tell.

Edited August 4, 2018 by regentrude

[omishev]

39 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Maybe suggest to sister (after asking about how SHE is doing, mood, etc) if we could schedule the next visit when it isn't baby's nap time, since that seems to be an issue. 

If you are familiar with Babywise (which I did use, but not THAT strictly), it's always naptime. Newborns "should" only be awake about 45 min max and so feeding, burping and changing takes their entire wake time. Maybe by 6 months she will have a long enough wake time and nurse quickly enough to also have a visit before naptime ?

[barnwife]

52 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

This discussion is strange to me on so many levels. It’s one thing to not want a sleeping baby to be touched (we all know that one), but quite another to look at your 6 year old niece and not let her hold a baby with supervision for couple of minutes at least. It’s just bizarre to me. And why is everything about rights of people and boundaries. I don’t know. Maybe it’s a cultural thing.  She is your sister. I would just ask her, “is it OK to let so and so hold a baby with supervision for a couple of minutes? She is exited about having a cousin.” I can’t imagine at least in my culture and in my family for anybody mentally sane to say no. I am emphasizing under supervision part because I know many could worry about dropping the child. 

This pp is said much more nicely than I could have expressed it. I just can't wrap my mind around many things written in this post. In my circle of family and friends it would be very...odd...to not let a 6 yo hold a baby under supervision (assuming of course, baby and child are healthy).

But this post reminded me that when our current youngest was maybe 5 months old, we saw my sister and her kids at a party. my niece would have been not quite 7 yo. We were seated on a patio outside and niece was looking adoringly at baby. i asked if she wanted to hold him and her face just lit up. I plopped baby into her arms and said something like, "why don't you go sit in that chair over there?" My sister observed this and looked very, very nervous, so I asked her if it was okay for niece to hold the baby. She let me know that niece had never done such a thing (carry/hold a baby) and maybe she'll drop the baby etc...By this time niece had already sat down with baby. I asked if she planned on dropping him and she said no. Then I said something like "well, don;t let him jump out of your lap either."

It's stayed with me because that's my sister's third kid. So it never occurred to me that might make her nervous. After all, we let our older three hold the baby pretty darn frequently and they are all younger than her kids.

FWIW, baby and niece were just fine.

All that being said, I do agree that while the choice of the new mom would be weird in my circle, I would certainly teach my children to respect that.

[ktgrok]

27 minutes ago, regentrude said:

According to the OP "the baby was supposed to be sleeping".  What *I* find absurd is people thinking it is fine to wake a sleeping baby just because they want to touch him. As the sleep deprived mom of a non-sleeping baby, I would have gone ballistic if anybody had woken my baby during one of her rare naps just because they wanted to touch her.

I find it rather absurd that people have the compulsion to touch another person's feet and that this urge is considered normal just because it's a baby.

My understanding was the baby was awake, but the mom felt it was "time" to sleep. Not sure why she was even visiting at that time, if she is going to be that strict about nap time with a 3 week old. Basically, sounds like no one can talk around, interact with, touch, or get close to the baby. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

While reading the thread that sounded strange to me, too but then I thought back to when dd was born. We took her to church one weekend (I dunno how old she was exactly) and the boy in the pew beside us kept reaching for her feet and touching on her. Dh is very tall and was holding her and the boy kept reaching for her feet that were dangling. We didn't know how to address it. No one in his family told him to back off. People just think it's okay to reach for baby's toes, I dunno why. It made us very uncomfortable. I think because we have no knowledge that this child has washed his hands and no sense of boundaries. I just think people need to be more thoughtful about what they do. You don't just reach for an adult's feet.

 

Did you know it wouldn't make your baby sick if a person with dirty hands touched her feet? 

Some of this is on parents to be adults. Decide what you care about it, and decide how to respond; don't just go through life having no idea how to address things. DH could have turned to the boy and kindly but firmly said, "Don't touch baby. Thank you." Or you could have traded places, putting yourself between the little boy and dh who was holding baby.

 

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

I do wonder that people feel they have to touch babies all the time. I think this came up in a recent thread though I don't think it started out about holding/touching babies. Babies are not like goats and lambs in a petting zoo.  (That could probably start a whole other discussion.)  

\

I'm guessing that wanting to hold, care for, and dote on infants is hard wired into the species as a survival trait. 

[omishev]

51 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

It doesn't matter if your sister is a first time mom - or an experienced mom.  her baby, her choice.

why does your dd think she has a right to hold *your sister's* baby?  based on what you have said, it sounds like that expectation is being fed by you. (that she held her younger siblings is irrelevant) that needs to stop.  not your baby, not your choice.   you are the one setting your dd up for disappointment by feeding that expectation.  you need to sit your dd down, and explain the reality is - your sister doesn't want her to hold her baby yet, and you and your daughter are going to respect her choice for her infant.  (just as when your dd is a grown up and has her own baby - you will respect her choices for her baby.)  respecting other people's choices will be good for your dd to learn - so she will get the message her choices also have an expectation of being respected when they concern herself.

 

DD has no idea I think there is anything wrong. I have been very supportive and respectful of my sister's wishes in front of her and at other times reinforce that we don't bother people when they are sleeping, babies included. I wish I had known ahead of time because we spent time practicing how to hold a baby. I would have prepped her differently if I had known. My bad for assuming!

I mentioned that DD held her younger siblings to explain that she knows how to do it safely and my sister has seen that and also seen that the younger siblings were not harmed in any way by the "love" she bestowed on them day in and day out.

But yes, it is a good opportunity for learning many life lessons!

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

The constant texting about a 2 yr old. That does sound extreme to me. How old is the other child?

 

The other one is 4.

[regentrude]

11 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I don’t seem to have the urge to hold/touch other people’s kids. I never really have. I was asked to hold a friend’s baby at a baby shower so she could go to her car. I didn’t mind but I wasn’t the type itching to do it, either. Not sure I’ve ever really experienced the intense baby fever many women do, either. 

Same here. Sure, I'll hold the baby to give mom a break - but it's because I care about my friend, not because I want to touch other people's babies or toddlers.  

[Sneezyone]

Just now, heartlikealion said:

Aw I hope they can play together. And the parents can relax. 

 

From your fingers to God's ears! I'm doing BOTH of these moms a GIANT favor!

Edited August 4, 2018 by Sneezyone