Parenting an adult child. I'm so lost. Warning long rant.

[Only me]

I really appreciate all the help.  I've decided to delete the post due to privacy reasons.  I am hoping to talk to my therapist tomorrow regarding how I can help her.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mom of 8 paws

[Guest]

Oh wow, that's stressful! Hugs!

[38carrots]

:grouphug:

[Bambam]

I have no answers, either, but I did want to offer my sympathy. 

 

Since our oldest is away at college now, I plan to read the comments to see if I can gain any wisdom for the future. 

[maize]

It sounds to me like she is not mentally and emotionally stable. A brain that is not functioning properly does not manage organization and other executive function skills well (leading to messy room, bathroom, chores undone...) as well as having impaired decision making skills.

 

The dating behavior, since it sounds like a significant departure from her past normal, makes me wonder if the depression diagnosis might actually be bipolar (often misdiagnosed as depression). Bipolar II is particularly likely to be misdiagnosed as depression.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_II_disorder

Edited November 13, 2016 by maize

[Arctic Bunny]

I'm sorry, that sounds like a lot going on in all the parts of your life.

 

I know it's JAWM, so take this with the smile and hug that's intended.... You could send pics of her bedroom and bathroom to the boyfriends!

 

Seriously though ((hugs))

[Only me]

It sounds to me like she is not mentally and emotionally stable. A brain that is not functioning properly does not manage organization and other executive function skills well (leading to messy room, bathroom, chores undone...) as well as having impaired decision making skills.

 

The dating behavior, since it sounds like a significant departure from her past normal, makes me wonder if the depression diagnosis might actually be bipolar (often misdiagnosed as depression). Bipolar II is particularly likely to be misdiagnosed as depression.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_II_disorder

 

NM

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mom of 8 paws

[JFSinIL]

Time to start charging rent (you can save it for her to pay down student loans if you like, but do not let her know this yet).  Or, tell her this arrangement is not working out since she can't do even the few "chores" you asked of her, so she needs by a certain date to find an apartment.   She is an adult.  If she wants to live in squalor, she can do it in her own place. Let her find roommates ( who may or may not put up with her messes) and her own apartment.

 

She possibly is unconsciously not doing chores since she dislikes having left the freedom of college to live back home.  It is not easy. 

 

 

 

[Incognito]

That sounds very hard.  I remember being the daughter home after university, but my kids aren't that old yet.

 

Would it help to have a small amount she pays as rent/cleaning fee?  Have a hired maid come 2-4x month and clean the bathroom and perhaps another little bit with the $$?  Then things would be cleaner, you wouldn't have to do it, and your daughter wouldn't have to do it either.

 

For meals, would it work for you to just assume she won't be there, but would want the leftovers for her lunch the next day (so you'd make enough for her to eat too)?  That way, you wouldn't end up frustrated and disappointed wondering if she would come, but if she did come for supper you'd have food to serve her?

 

For the life choices, it must be so hard to watch.  I know my parents watched me make some pretty unwise choices as a young adult.  I don't know how a parent does it with grace, but you can.  You've gotten this far.  I don't know how you can help her, perhaps there are ways you can ask her to buddy with you on growing certain healthy behaviors, and that might lead to her working on them with you?  I really don't know.  

 

Hugs.

 

[Kassia]

:grouphug:   I'm sorry you have so much stress going on right now.  I agree that having adult children living at home can be tough, but this is an unusual situation and I don't think the normal consequences would be effective.  

[maize]

:grouphug: I'm sorry you have so much stress going on right now. I agree that having adult children living at home can be tough, but this is an unusual situation and I don't think the normal consequences would be effective.

Yes. If mental health is behind the behavioral difficulties, consequences will not be effective at all.

 

As a parent, this is a really tough situation to be in and there just isn't much you can do.

[Retired]

I have a 23 yo living at home saving up.   He and my 19 yo share a bathroom.  I don't mess with their room or bathroom.  THey can live like single guy or whatever.  I know at some point they will grow up and take care of there own home.  So I say don't stress about that.  I only make a big deal if we are having company.  They will clean up when I ask but I can guarantee you if you tell them like they are children they tend to act like children.

 

I don't expect them to check in with me except to let me know if they will be home vs staying at a friends  or out of town.  THey both are good about giving me a text.

 

Now my youngest sons is dating another college student that also lives at home.  Her parents pretty much have the same view.   She and her sister help mom out with general stuff like loading the dishwasher but there bathroom and room are there to live like pigs or clean LOL  this comes from

 

My son whoms room is not the neatest says girlfriend is a pig pen so lord that must be nasty LOL

 

THe kids work, study and have college so I get they are busy and just dont' push it.

 

Now the op daughter is like my oldest son an independent adult.  I know we moms expect things but honestly the best  thing you can do is do just row with it and build a relationship adult-to adult.

 

You dont' tell another adult how to live or guide there actions.

 

You just have to bite your tnghe and be their for them.  They will grow up.  I've seen great changes in my older (problem child)  He has is finally making more reasonable decisions ..  Thank goodness

 

As for our marriage I'm so sorry you are having issues lord knows my dh and I are figuring out life with just the 2 of us.

 

The boys live here but have their separate life.  I only cook for him and I.   I will cook for the boys when they let me know they will be home.  THey dont' tell me then they can get their own food !

 

I've learn to be my sons best friends.  They feel open to share anything (I mean anything) I'm glad they can confide in me.  They also know I'm a Christian and don't' always agree.  But what they do know is I never preach or guilt them.  I'm just a wise old lady. ;)   They both along with there friends tell me I'm always right after the fact LOL. 

 

I wish I could stop them from doing hurtful stupid stuff but I had to learn the hard way and sadly my oldest son is like me.  Thankfully my youngest son is making wise choices.

 

:grouphug: â€‹  Middle age life is not for sissy's :willy_nilly: 

 

[maize]

Yes I'm afraid I agree with you. I've actually tried to gently bring up the possibility that she may have more going on than her current diagnosis and mentioned possible bipolar. I tried to be very nonjudgmental about it and just told her I'm here for her if she needs help. She got very upset with me. She sees a therapist but I have the feeling she isn't being honest with her or her psychiatrist.

 

It is hard for even a good therapist to see through whatever story a client presents if they don't have some kind of outside input. People struggling with mental health typically have warped perceptions of reality, and while therapists know that, they don't have the omniscience to know exactly which bits are being warped, exaggerated, or left out in discussions with a client.

 

I wonder if there is any way for you to share your observations and concerns with the therapist? They won't be able to discuss your daughter's case with you without her explicit permission, but you may be able to share your point of view either in person or through a letter or email.

 

Is your daughter taking any kind of medication?

Edited November 14, 2016 by maize

[happi duck]

(hugs)

 

If this is related to depression etc I hope she opens up to more help.

 

If it isn't health related I hope things turn around...it doesn't sound healthy for anyone.

 

She isn't even behaving like a good roommate.

 

(hugs)

[Only me]

I have a 23 yo living at home saving up. He and my 19 yo share a bathroom. I don't mess with their room or bathroom. THey can live like single guy or whatever. I know at some point they will grow up and take care of there own home. So I say don't stress about that. I only make a big deal if we are having company. They will clean up when I ask but I can guarantee you if you tell them like they are children they tend to act like children.

 

I don't expect them to check in with me except to let me know if they will be home vs staying at a friends or out of town. THey both are good about giving me a text.

 

Now my youngest sons is dating another college student that also lives at home. Her parents pretty much have the same view. She and her sister help mom out with general stuff like loading the dishwasher but there bathroom and room are there to live like pigs or clean LOL this comes from

 

My son whoms room is not the neatest says girlfriend is a pig pen so lord that must be nasty LOL

 

THe kids work, study and have college so I get they are busy and just dont' push it.

 

Now the op daughter is like my oldest son an independent adult. I know we moms expect things but honestly the best thing you can do is do just row with it and build a relationship adult-to adult.

 

You dont' tell another adult how to live or guide there actions.

 

You just have to bite your tnghe and be their for them. They will grow up. I've seen great changes in my older (problem child) He has is finally making more reasonable decisions .. Thank goodness

 

As for our marriage I'm so sorry you are having issues lord knows my dh and I are figuring out life with just the 2 of us.

 

The boys live here but have their separate life. I only cook for him and I. I will cook for the boys when they let me know they will be home. THey dont' tell me then they can get their own food !

 

I've learn to be my sons best friends. They feel open to share anything (I mean anything) I'm glad they can confide in me. They also know I'm a Christian and don't' always agree. But what they do know is I never preach or guilt them. I'm just a wise old lady. ;) They both along with there friends tell me I'm always right after the fact LOL.

 

I wish I could stop them from doing hurtful stupid stuff but I had to learn the hard way and sadly my oldest son is like me. Thankfully my youngest son is making wise choices.

 

:grouphug: ​ Middle age life is not for sissy's :willy_nilly:

 

NM

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mom of 8 paws

[Only me]

Yes. If mental health is behind the behavioral difficulties, consequences will not be effective at all.

 

As a parent, this is a really tough situation to be in and there just isn't much you can do.

 

NM

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mom of 8 paws

[gardenmom5]

btdt.

 

charge rent.  she's an employed in a real job adult.  what you charge will still be less than what an apartment would cost.  if she doesn't like it - she's welcome to go rent an apartment with friends to save money.

 

if she doesn't let you know she'll be home for dinner - assume she won't be and do NOT set her a place. do NOT hold dinner for her.

 

I'd dump  wet towels and dirty laundry left lying around the house on her bed.  it's her problem.  her bed gets wet?  her problem.

 

she leaves stuff in the bathroom?  box it up.  when it's clean she can have it back.

 

1dd was similar.  she now has a house of her own -she's gotten much better about cleaning up after herself.

eta: including the health issues.  she was seriously vit d deficient (which can lead to volatile moods), and hypoadrenal - it took years to get that diagnosed.

Edited November 13, 2016 by gardenmom5

[QueenCat]

As to the bathroom, it might be easier to have her pay either brother or you $20 a week to clean it. Sounds like a lot but it should be enough to be worth it to brother. And to make her think about which choice she wants to make: clean or pay.

[Wheres Toto]

Is it possible that the stress in your marriage may also be affecting her?  Sounds like she has a lot going on, newly graduated, new job, and coming home to family stress, in addition to her own mental health issues.

 

My oldest graduated in May and is currently living with my mother.   It's been a hard adjustment at times, after living on campus for four years.   They basically have the same rules we had here when she came home on breaks.  She's in charge of her space as long as it's not a fire hazard.  If she wants it to be a mess, that's up to her.   She does her own laundry living with my mother, but I would do her laundry only if it was in the hamper when I was planning to do laundry, otherwise she was on her own.  If we didn't know she was going to be home for dinner, there might not be anything for her but she could always make something for herself.  We did ask to know if she was not going to be home all night so we could lock the door and turn off the outside lights.

 

I don't get involved with my daughters relationships unless she directly asks for my opinions.  She is an adult and needs to make her own choices about how she wants to live her life.

 

ETA: I like the ideas of charging rent and/or charging her for someone else to clean the bathroom, IF it was just laziness or lack of time.  If the real issue is her mental health situation, that probably needs to be addressed before anything is going to help.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Where's Toto?

[Granny_Weatherwax]

:grouphug:

 

.

[Bluegoat]

One thing that came to my mind is that sometimes, young adults who are pretty moderate in their behavior when they are in their teens or first out of the parental home - say in high school university - can have a sort of "wild" period later on when they are just a bit older.  I think if that's what is going on with her dating, she may well grow out of it, just like kids do when they are younger.

 

It might be that depression is part of why she isn't keeping up her end of housework and such, OTOH, it is so easy for a young adult to fall back into kid mode when at home with parents.  I think it's perfectly fair to insist on a housework agreement - roommates have them too and that's what being an adult means, not being able to impose your work on other people.  She really is asking to have her cake and eat it too.  Being able to cope with hanging out with friends and traveling to meet a boyfriend but not to empty the waste basket sounds to me like taking advantage.

 

 

[City Mouse]

This is rather timely for me. My DD who is almost 22 recently informed me that she will not be returning to school after Christmas break. This is not a total surprise, but I had really hoped I could convince her to finish up as she would graduate this time next year. I have been thinking about how we will handle things here.

 

I think you need to stop thinking of it as "parenting" at this point. Treat her like a tenant. Charge rent even if it is just a token amount. have her sign a contract even if it is homemade and not an official agreement. Spell out your expectations in writing. If she chooses not to clean the bathroom, charge her extra for being her maid, or have her pay the brother to do her share of cleaning. Stop doing her laundry. If the dirty towels on the floor bug you, make her buy her own towels, or at least give her own towels to take care of separate from the rest of the household. Since it bothers you when you don't know if she will be home for dinner, Stop planning for her to be home at dinner, and don't worry about feeding her. She can eat the leftovers later if you have any or choose to allow that, or give her a small part of the fridge and pantry to keep her own food.

 

In her defense, the first year of teaching is extremely difficult even without a previous diagnosis of depression and anxiety. My first year of teaching, I consided a good day to be any day I didn't come home and cry after work.

 

Worst case, let her know now that she needs to plan to move out before the next school year starts. That will give her plenty of time to find somewhere to live.

Edited November 14, 2016 by City Mouse

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Some of it is the age. My DD's closest friends are messy, even the married ones. They are not ashamed to discuss their messiness either. The difference is DD's friends live on their own; not one of them lives with their parents. For them, it's not big deal.

 

OP - you are not alone BTW. I've struggled with where to set boundaries and how to create appropriate consequences for my adult DD who lives with us. We get the bonus of also having DGD, too! If it's any consolation, I haven't figured it out yet. At times I feel like an ogre; other times I feel like a doormat. We have two very different ideas and tolerance levels about clutter, messes, cooking, and general responsibility. Some days I look at my DD and wonder where she came from; that's how different we are.

 

It's a difficult situation to be in and there aren't any one-size-fits-all answers. 

[Aura]

As to the bathroom, it might be easier to have her pay either brother or you $20 a week to clean it. Sounds like a lot but it should be enough to be worth it to brother. And to make her think about which choice she wants to make: clean or pay.

This is what I was going to say.

 

My oldest has graduated but is still at home. I told him he was an adult and should expect to be treated like that. I wouldn't treat him like a kid w/ chores and curfews, etc., but he had to take some adult responsibilities in return. He could work it off or pay it off. He chose work it off...but then didn't do it.

 

I warned him that if it wasn't done by a specific date, I was going to hire someone else to do it. I also warned him that I was going to treat him like an adult and not harp on him, so don't expect reminders. He didn't get it done.

 

So, I told his brother to do it and then billed him. I really expected him to fuss and complain when I gave him a printed invoice, but he just opened up his wallet and handed me the cash.

 

Your dd is working, she can afford a small amount to pay for cleaning. Either pay it to a sibling, or hire someone to come in and clean.

 

On top of that, she may find that it is worth $100/month or whatever to pay to have a clean environment to live in. I have found that when dealing with mental problems, even small things like keeping a clean room can be huge drains.

 

As for the dating trouble, all I can offer is  :grouphug: .

[Barb_]

As to the bathroom, it might be easier to have her pay either brother or you $20 a week to clean it. Sounds like a lot but it should be enough to be worth it to brother. And to make her think about which choice she wants to make: clean or pay.

 

I agree.

 

I think you've got three problems here. The first one is the physical burden of having her there. The mess. I would sit down with her and tell her you know she's short on time so she has to pay x per week as a housekeeping service. Don't have her pay her brother because that may stir up a weird dynamic between them. Then either you or he can do the cleaning and you can pass out the money.

 

The second problem is that you're taking her choices personally. She's all grown and it sounds like she's in a late rebellion against her upbringing. It's really difficult but if you want her to stay with her, you should stop giving unsolicited advice :( It's so hard because it feels like they are hurtling toward a cliff's edge you can see but they can't. But they've got to make their own decisions. Wait to be asked for advice if at all possible.

 

Third, I agree she sounds bipolar II. If you back off of the advice giving, maybe she will agree to allowing you to see her therapist. A family member was diagnosed bipolar I over the summer and even thought she'd been seeing a therapist for intractable depression for over a year, she'd been lying to him and withholding information. She admitted as much once she received a diagnosis and the right medication.

 

I would also stop including her in meal planning. Tell her it's difficult to plan around her so from now on you'll be wrapping hers up with the leftovers or she can buy and make her own food, whichever.

 

I'm afraid the only advice I can give right now is to try and disengage emotionally for a while.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Barb_

[Melissa in Australia]

I will have my oldest returning home sort-of-ish in 2 days after 5 years away at UNI - I have no advice as yet BUT I am sure that we will drive each other insane very quickly. 

 

 ds21 living remote and turning up about once a month unannounced. If he doesn't  ring and say he will be here for meals than there is nothing saved  for him.

 

ds19 works long hours and gets home at irregular times ( he is doing 3 different jobs, one full time ). I save a meal for him and leave it out on the bench. 

 

I would charge her for cleaning- simple solution for that problem.

 

Boyfriend issues are way out of my league - I would be tempted to encourage her to find her own place.

 

 

 

[alisoncooks]

In her defense, the first year of teaching is extremely difficult even without a previous diagnosis of depression and anxiety. My first year of teaching, I consided a good day to be any day I didn't come home and cry after work.

 

Yes to this...

[bolt.]

I currently have a mid-20's boarder/roommate/guest -- and I think she is excellent at training me for when my kids become young adults. With her it is so easy to tell which things actually bother me versus other things I don't quite approve of. The emotional distance helps.

 

With the distance, I know (for example) that leaving dishes in her room is a bad habit, but I find I don't really care if she has a few bad habits. I only mind if I start running out of dishes, or if it has a tangible effect on my life in some other way. I haven't invested 20 years of my life into her habits... So I quite naturally feel the (obvious and noticable) difference between my responses of: 'that's not great for her' and 'this is a problem for me'.

 

I'm absolutely sure that she doesn't always hang wet towels (her towels), and she hasn't got good boundaries with her bf (or anyone), she keeps late hours, and she is intermittent about dinner -- but it's not my circus, so I just don't take it seriously. (I cook enough for her most nights, because leftovers are good for everyone.)

 

It won't be that easy with my own. I know it won't. It's obvious that it will feel totally different... But I think my ability to ask myself, "Why is xyz bugging me now, when it didn't when so-n-so did the exact same thing?" -- will help me sort my thoughts and feelings with the kind of logic that tends to calm me down.

 

Maybe that could help you too. Maybe if you know which feelings are, 'because I'm a loving mother, closely bonded with this person' feelings, and which feelings are, 'because I am a space-sharing homeowner with a young person in my space' feelings... It could help you to wonder, "Is this something that would bug me if she was a friend-of-the-family boarder who had moved here for work? What would I do/say if she was?" (And then see how you answer yourself.)

[Only me]

nm

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mom of 8 paws

[maize]

I wonder if you could present her with the idea of paying for housecleaning she doesn't want to do or doesn't feel up to doing as an alternative option--an adult sort of choice to make. Since she is a working adult, she doesn't have to do household chores--the work needs to be done but she has the option of either doing it herself or paying for someone else to do it.

 

Maybe she'll buy into the idea of paying if it is presented as an opportunity not a penalty.

Edited November 14, 2016 by maize

[Only me]

Yes to this...

NM

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mom of 8 paws

[TrixieB]

Yes I'm afraid I agree with you. I've actually tried to gently bring up the possibility that she may have more going on than her current diagnosis and mentioned possible bipolar. I tried to be very nonjudgmental about it and just told her I'm here for her if she needs help. She got very upset with me. She sees a therapist but I have the feeling she isn't being honest with her or her psychiatrist.

 

You didn't say if she is taking meds, but if she is, antidepressants can cause manic or hypomanic behavior in some people.  If this were to be the situation, could you call the psychiatrist to report behaviors/symptoms?  The dr wouldn't be able to tell you anything without your daughter's consent, but he/she would then be aware that something possibly med-related is going on.

[Only me]

You didn't say if she is taking meds, but if she is, antidepressants can cause manic or hypomanic behavior in some people. If this were to be the situation, could you call the psychiatrist to report behaviors/symptoms? The dr wouldn't be able to tell you anything without your daughter's consent, but he/she would then be aware that something possibly med-related is going on.

NM

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mom of 8 paws

[maize]

You didn't say if she is taking meds, but if she is, antidepressants can cause manic or hypomanic behavior in some people. If this were to be the situation, could you call the psychiatrist to report behaviors/symptoms? The dr wouldn't be able to tell you anything without your daughter's consent, but he/she would then be aware that something possibly med-related is going on.

This is a very good point and is one reason that the frequent misdiagnosis of bipolar II as unipolar depression is problematic. It is very common for people with bipolar II to fail to recognize or report hypomanic symptoms. Irritability, by the way, is one of the most common symptoms of hypomania. Treating bipolar with antidepressants often makes these symptoms worse.

 

I think it would be worth trying to communicate your observations and concerns to your dd's Dr. I would put everything in writing. Even if the Dr. will not talk to you they may read your observations and take them into account in working with your dd.

Edited November 14, 2016 by maize

[Laurel-in-CA]

Make a list of the things in her life you are NOT in charge of. Ask her if you've left anything out. Modify the list as needed. In your place I would shop for ingredients but not cook for her. My 22yo does his own cooking if he's not home for dinner, his own lunches and breakfast. All I do is keep cereal in the cupboard and milk and tortillas etc. in the refrigerator. If he wants special ingredients, he buys them. I am thinking laundry would also go on this list. No clean clothes? Sorry, I'm not in charge of that. I've told my kids there are things in their life I won't comment on -- my oldest's dating behavior is one of those -- but I will always be praying for them and I will always listen. Of course I will have an opinion, because I'm their mom and I love them, but I will be silent on certain topics unless they ask.

 

Then make a list of the things that she is responsible for completing that you will hire done if she doesn't do them -- and I am thinking the bathroom is one of them. I would, seriously, get an OUTSIDE estimate for cleaning it twice/week top to floor, and have her sign something. Your back doesn't need that and your heart doesn't need the worry.

 

My 19yo is incredibly sloppy (and I was too when I was her age). I carry a pile a day up and put it on her bed....and then I SHUT the door. I can't deal with her room and remain nice. If it's on her bed, at least she has to do something with it before she can sleep. I will fold her clothes if she starts the load, but I will not run it thru the washer -- that's her job because I am not going to take care of items that need special temperatures/handling.

 

You might want to talk to a therapist on your own about how to deal with your daughter. I doubt her therapist would talk with you, but a neutral third party might be able to help you see not just your daughter but the whole situation in a better perspective. It sounds like you and your dh have friction, too, and talking to someone might help you with that as well.

 

And I would ask her what I CAN do to help her first year teaching a success without infringing on her adulting. It's hard to learn the lessons of adulting while at home, hard on both parent and child. It's also very hard as a parent to have your kid learn their adulting lessons far away and NOT be able to help. It can be very hard to get those tearful, I'm miserable or I screwed up phone calls, too.

 

God's grace and strength to you.

[Barb_]

Yes to laurel's post. Please don't be afraid of upsetting her. You are allowing her to hold you emotionally hostage, whether or not that is her intention. Don't enable the behaviors that make your life more difficult. By all means, stop doing her laundry. Just tell her you've realized you aren't doing her any favors by allowing her to get too cushy. It's best she learn to manage her time and her activities of daily living while she's still home.

 

Also, ETA to add I'm also sending you the strength that only a mama who has been there can offer

Edited November 14, 2016 by Barb_

[BooksandBoys]

Yes she is taking meds. Maybe I will try calling. I have the feeling they won't let me talk to the doctor but I will try.

The doctor likely won't be able to confirm that he/she is your daughter's doctor, but most will listen and take notes even while not acknowledging.

 

When I was a therapist, the required reply to a concerned person (relative or not) was, "I can't confirm or deny that I treat (person's name), but I'll listen to anything you have to tell me.

[Retired]

As far as the bathroom the problem is that she shares it with her brother who then has to deal with the mess. Yes he could clean it but he has his own responsibilities around the house. She doesn't listen to him either. I don't think it is fair to him to have to deal with garbage falling out of the trashcan (used female products) and all the rest of the mess. We will also need to use that bathroom for company in 2 weeks and it's going to be such a big job now. I never say anything about her room but get so frustrated when she leaves wet towels in a pile on he floor and then they get all gross. It affects the rest of the towels.

 

I do understand and I had issues like that with my oldest for awhile.    I finally told him he could clean  up or he would need to pay his brother to clean the bathrrom.  He didn't like it at first and was making excuse.  I finally told him he could leave or do his share.  Then showed him how much apartment etc are in our area.   He decided to pay brother.

 

I don't think its fair that your son clean up your daughters femanine stuff.   I think its time you may have to tough love.   I don't know your daughter personality but I've got a passive aggressive pain the ass older son.  I love him but he totally would leave everything up to his younger brother.   I don't' know the age difference between the 2 but it took the younger brother finally speaking up and not allowing older brother to walk-all-over him.

 

I also think your daughter has similar issues in that she is self center and doesn't think about anyone but herself.  I know my oldest is like that along with a mental health issue that when he was younger I did give him a bit more slack cause it just wasn't worth the fights

 

But now I just treat him like an adult.  I tell him he is a adult in this house and since he is one of our room mates we expect him to take up the slack or he will need to find another house.

 

I feel your frustration and hurt cause we love our kids.   I know with my son him living with us is honestly the best thing for him  but I also have to do what best for my younger son.

 

I'm glad he decided to stay and everything is working out

 

I wouldn't want your son cleaning up but maybe her paying you.  I wouldn't' do it for her without payment.  She is an adult and if she doesn't want to clean then she needs to pay for the service.

 

and for my guys there bathroom my  youngest is getting better with the cleaning they are almost up to my standard but just not often enough.

 

I  missed the part about her being bipolar.  I'm not dealing with that but my son has issues with depression  so I understand sometimes wanting to just give in.

 

He see's his own doctor and has been stable for years but I can feel your pain and feel regarding your daughters behavior.  My sister is bipolar and its been an emotional roller coaster for year

 

I totally feel for you

 

I hope you have resources IRL to help you out.

[Scarlett]

Well first, disclaimer, I have only 15 and 16 year old and my big complaint is my 15 yo takes too long in the bathroom.

 

I would not allow an adult child to live in my home while living contrary to my moral values. So there is that. YMMV. But it is your home and she isn't in charge. She should be paying rent and doing her share of chores. Anything less is just rude and you do her no favors to allow it to continue unchecked.

[Scarlett]

And I am sorry about your marriage. Is your Dh her dad?

[Only me]

And I am sorry about your marriage. Is your Dh her dad?

NM

Edited November 16, 2016 by Mom of 8 paws

[Scarlett]

Yes and it doesn't help things. We try to not fight in front of them. He puts me down a lot though in front of them and I think it has worn off on my daughter. He resents that I don't work full time but we have plenty of money. I have a lot of medical problems that cause severe pain. I can't work. I do what I can. My house is far from perfect but far from being a disaster. I have to focus on one area at a time so one day I might vacuum and the next clean up clutter so the house is rarely "company ready". But I cook every day and clean the kitchen every day. I get groceries etc. I usually have a doctor's appointment or physical therapy several times a week. He just feels that since he works full time that he shouldn't have any responsibilities at home and since "I do nothing all day" I shouldn't ask him to do anything.

Well I had that problem in my first marriage. A husband who made plenty of money but felt I wasn't doing my fair share. Because you know, doing everything goes at the house and homeschooling our son wasn't enough. He is sure sorry now....I hope your Dh can figure it,out before it is too,late.

 

But either way, all the more reason to have your dd step up and be an adult.

 

(((Hugs))

[Sneezyone]

This behavior sounds exactly like my younger sister who is diagnosed bipolar. The extended time in school, mania, travel, hasty and ill-advised intimate relationships, bathroom messes, irritability, all of it. No one on the outside would ever know b/c she keeps up appearances but behind the scenes it's all a big mess.

 

If your DD is holding down a job that's awesome but I'd be shocked if some of these things weren't impacting job performance as well. My sister always feels blindsided when she's eventually let go. Since she has a steady income, I second the suggestion of having her pay something, either to have a family member clean or to pay for a service to come regularly. Taking that off her plate and eliminating the nagging and confrontations will help.

 

Also, is she actually saving? My sister has never been able to do that consistently even when working. She constantly blew the money on travel. Every $ she got in in-kind support meant one more dollar she could spend on movies, road trips and eating out. Charging rent meant my mom could eventually afford to move DD into her own place, pay the rent 6mos to a year in advance, and get my sister into the habit of paying bills first.

 

ETA: if, upon further discussion w/her physician (and you may want to suggest a family therapy visit to become acquainted), bipolar is the cause you may also want to begin the time-consuming process of establishing SSID eligibility. You receive no support when working full time but if/when employment is interrupted due to the illness, there's a safety net in place.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Sneezyone

[AimeeM]

Is she ADHD by any chance? My dyslexic, ADHD teenager absolutely still has to be walked through - and reminded - to do things as simple as putting laundry in her laundry basket... and I suspect she may have to be walked through those things even as a young adult. The things that jumped out at me when I was reading your post was "impulse control," "time management issues," and "executive function skills." All of which my daughter has problems with. 

[Pippen]

I would consider my "help" to her as providing a low cost place to live. Otherwise treat her like a boarder. She is using your generosity to manipulate you, and the only way to put a stop to this is to set new boundaries if she's going to remain under your roof.

 

She's had a few months to adjust to the school year, so I'd stop doing her laundry. I'd expect she leave all but what she's currently washing in her bedroom and I'd haul any back that is left down there--both dirty and clean.

 

I'd buy her her own set of towels for Christmas if she doesn't already have some for college. She stops using the family towels and can do whatever she wants with hers. She managed in college and can manage now.

 

I wouldn't worry about her meals. If I were making something I know she likes I'd make extra, but otherwise I'd carry on as usual. If she's not home at mealtime leftovers may or may not be in the fridge when she lands. Whatever.

 

I'd let her know now this isn't working well for you and starting ie January 1 she can choose to stay provided she pay rent and do bare minimum of upkeep that impacts the family. IMO this would be keeping her clothes and stuff inside her room, emptying bathroom trash weekly, and once a month bathroom cleaning. I'd also set a date for her being out, i.e. before school starts in fall.

 

We know you're helping her out a great deal, but she doesn't realize that yet. If she hasn't realized that yet, it's not going to happen until she's out of the house.

[kroe1]

He who hath the gold rules.

 

Write out a contract. Define all the rules in the contract. Kick her out if she does not fulfill the contract. Simple.

[bettyandbob]

I d make a contract.

 

I'd also have a look at her financial and professional goal setting. Id say doing this is part of the contract to live with you because ultimately the goal is to move out and be independent. She's living with you to pay off loans and save to move out. How is her budget. Does she have have accounts specifically for loan payment, long-term savings, and a tiny bit fun money? Paying for cleaning can be in this budget.

 

Professional goals. Ask her what are the steps to get licensed in Florida. What has she done toward them. Make a timeline for each step. At the same time she wants to do well at her current job. What has to happen. Are you able/willing to be a sounding board/brainstorming assistant an hour a week for revamping her lesson plans. After she drafts them, you could go through them with her to give her new ideas.

 

And yes, the very basics of living in your house would be not to subject anyone to a trashcan of her overflowing hygiene products. That's gross. She knows it. I might start taking the trash to her bedroom.

 

ETA when you are dealing with mental illness "get tough" strategies don't work. I'd only use the "kick her out" option if she were a danger to others in the house.

 

I think trying to help her build a lattice of small steps she can control in her personal, professional and financial life might work better. But be aware getting her to even work on that will likely be difficult.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Diana P.

[Sneezyone]

Just to follow up, if she is dealing with a serious mental illness like bipolar none of the traditional 'get tough' stuff will work without medication and/or ongoing psychotherapy. These individuals can get physically aggressive and violent. In the absence of appropriate care (and sometimes with it) they are not thinking clearly and expecting them to rationalize their way to appropriate behavior/personal choices won't work. You'll just end up with a young person on the street or in some other unsafe environment. With or without a diagnosis, you may want to visit or look for a family support group that helps parents in your situation. This online forum was helpful when I was struggling with my feelings toward my sibling. Both sufferers, caregivers (parents-spouses-significant others), and siblings post there since the illness affects everyone.  http://www.mdjunction.com/parents-of-bipolar-children Reading/following made me feel less alone and you may come across some good coping strategies.

[Ottakee]

I agree with the checking out the bipolar issue. You can call the doctor and therapist and tell them things, they though can not tell you things without her permission. It might help guide them into asking the right questions so that she will share more. Young adult time is often when bipolar will come out.

 

Also, treading carefully here, if this is a more sudden change in her is there a chance that she was sexually abused recently, had an abortion, etc? I have seen young adults where these things cause extreme guilt and lots of behavior changes. Suddenly going from guy to guy, etc as they feel worthless about themselves (even if it was something terrible done TO them).

[BlsdMama]

So, a couple things - how are you doing right now?  Sounds like you have a lot of turmoil too and this is that "one more thing", kwim?  The straw, the camel, the same old story.

 

Can you draw her closer?  Could you get up early for devotion time with her and make it about both of you in your Bible, praying for one another, drawing closer to the Lord?  There are some very practical things you could do to get the bathroom clean, etc., but I think that's probably giving cough medicine to stop an annoying cough rather than boosting the immune system to kill the cold, kwim?  

 

Because if she draws close to the Lord, well, His Holy Spirit is so much more powerful than you, kwim?  I'd focus on the root, not the fruit. ;)  

 

This is super hard.  I've really struggled with knowing what parenting looks like with just a twenty year old living at home so I have no easy, pat answers.  I will tell you, even in a mentally healthy young woman who is doing well at school (and I'll leave the fact that she's expecting and getting married - notice the order) out of it, she has a *very* hard time juggling things and yes, cleaning really does drop to the bottom of the list.  It's unacceptable and we've had our share of fights about it, but some kids really struggle with how to get it all done.

 

And, you know, I look back to my early adulting and I *really* struggled the same whether it was juggling work/home or school/home, I had a really hard time not wanting to crash when I expended so much energy outside.  And, on the guy side of things, it is very powerful to a young woman when she realizes she *has* power over guys.  She doesn't realize that she's hurting herself by giving away her heart or other parts.  This is where her value in Christ comes in- to know that she is created in His amazing image and that He has a plan for her and for her life and that that is worth praying over.  She isn't valuing or loving herself very much right now and she needs to know she is valued, has worth.

 

On the sexual side of things - is she acting out sexually?  Was she an ADHD child? I ask because the physical outlet can be very soothing and because the impulsiveness is hard to resist if  you don't know how you're hurting yourself, kwim?