Can messy people truly change?

[Epicurean]

I'm beginning to wonder if messy people can permanently change.

 

My DH and I are slobs. We always have been. It might have something to do with the fact that we both came from homes where, for various reasons, almost everything sentimental to us was thrown away. As adults, we seem to be making up for it with hoarding tendencies. I will say that in our defense, our place isn't really gross in terms of food or trash...but everything else? Chaos.

 

It's hard to know how to rank our messiness compared to others. I guess one way you could do it is by asking how many minutes away we are to presentable if someone were to stop by unexpectedly. I'm guessing maybe an hour? That is, if I'm allowed to haphazardly throw things in closets and other hiding spots. It wouldn't be so bad if we were okay with being messy, but neither of us like it. Especially me.

 

I've read blogs and books and articles about picking up better habits. If I could put all the hours spend reading about cleaning into actually being clean, we might be okay. ;) I read and loved the Konmari book (with the exception of the pantheism), but nothing seems to cure our ways. Even when we do get it pretty close to perfectly clean (because I read x book or my parents are coming or whatever), it doesn't stay that way. Purging just puts the cycle on reset (although maybe I need to do a much bigger purge than I have been?).

 

It reminds me of those studies tracking the success of people who try to lose a significant amount of weight. Statistically, very few people can keep the weight off long term. I mean, that's obviously not a reason to throw up your hands and just eat all the donuts, but it does speak to how hard it is to maintain those lifestyle changes.  I wonder if it's similar for messy people who try to change their ways.

 

Do you have a conversion story about how you used to not be able to have people over, and now your house is almost always close to respectable? I'm not so much looking for how-to tips, because honestly, I feel like I've read every single one out there...but obviously there is a disconnect for me, so feel free to preach about a method if it really works for you.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Epicurean

[DawnM]

Following.

 

I am fairly good at keeping the main areas clear:  Kitchen, living room, dining room, sunroom

 

But even that has gotten cluttered, dusty, and needs vacuuming since I have gone back to work.

 

But the basement, bedrooms, and office are a true disaster.  

 

I am like you, I don't have gross stuff all around, but people just don't pick up.  I have piles of sheets, clothing, and books in my bedroom that I don't even notice anymore because I just don't have the energy to actually do anything about it.  And don't even mention the attic, garage, or closets.  

 

I need to just have some goals:

 

Clean my bedroom this weekend

Go through the basement over Thanksgiving/Christmas break

ETC

 

But lots of times during breaks, I just want to do NOTHING or just do the fun stuff.

 

All that to say, WE ARE RIGHT THERE WITH YOU!

 

 

[Laurel]

DP and I are definitely better than we used to be, by far, but no where near perfect. People coming over unannounced/unexpected is fine (as long as they're not getting in my car!) There was no magic bullet, or moment, or system. It's been a slow, gradual process that hopefully will continue. I've developed some good routines (for me), that have spilled over into how DP acts, and it's easy to get back into the swing of things after an upset (like an exceptionally crazy week, or when we've been sick).

 

You made the comparison to losing weight, and I think it's accurate here. The people who are the most successful at keeping the weight off are the ones who slowly make gradual lifestyle changes. It's easy to maintain a new system for a week or three, or a couple months. But when life gets in the way, it's hard to get back to it.

 

Have you read the blog A Slob Comes Clean? That might be the kind of conversion story you're looking for, with a heavy dose of reality.

[HomeAgain]

My habits changed over time.  I used to have a messy house.  I grew up in a messy house, lol, and never learned different.  I was envious of those who could keep on top of it all.  I had to learn my brain did not work the same, neither did my habits.  I now refuse to have things that are too difficult to put away - I use baskets and bins, no lidded boxes, I keep clutter to a minimum, and I do cleaning in spurts: walking through a room I'll pick up and put away 5 things.  Or I'll stop doing dishes to wipe down one counter.  I'm not going to lie, Flylady helped immensely in setting small habits (like wiping down the sink, or tossing in laundry on the way to the kitchen in the morning).

 

My house is still not perfect by a long shot, but it's comfortable and that's all I was aiming for.

[PrincessMommy]

Yes and no. I was very messy (but not with hoarding tendencies). I think having kids did change me a bit, as did hiring a house cleaner when the kids were smaller and I was homeschooling multiple kids. I got used to and now I really do appreciate a tidy living space. There are still areas that are messy for longer periods,like our bedroom. But it does eventually get tidied up. I think as I've aged it affects me more. Also, we instituted a weekly cleanup with the kids when our house cleaner moved away

 

But, I still have trouble finding motivation to do it everyday. So things like the kitchen and dining room can get pretty messy for days at a time. Dustbunnies will collect all week until our appointed cleanup day. AND if, for some reason, we can't do that, vacuuming rarely gets done until the next week.

[bettyandbob]

I keep thinking I have something to add, but my thoughts are messy too.

 

This thread did prompt me to declutter in my kitchen and dining room.

 

My whole house is not clean and it is very unlikely the whole house will ever be clean unless we move. However I work to keep the public areas mostly declutter all the time. I hate being embarrassed when someone stops by. Also clutter agitates me. So, I'm kind of a messy person, but I don't do well with mess. I think clutter causes too much sensory input for me. Anyway I work to keep a few rooms clean. Bedrooms are not clean. Basement rec room is not clean.

 

When I can I work on another space. Maybe my room or the basement. Or I work on something smaller like a drawer or a shelf.

 

I do make a point of regularly donating stuff. We always have clothes to get rid of. I have I need ds who is always saying he needs new pants or whatever. I refuse to buy him new anything until he gives me the worn out/outgrown one. So sometimes he wears whatever is worn out longer. Not because of emotional attachment, but he's obstinate and doesn't see the point. My DD has started clearing her closet regularly without prompting. She's realized she loses things if she has too much stuff. She gets frustrated when she loses things.

 

Anyway, my approach is to pick a space and always maintain it. Do other spaces when you can. Don't expect dh to do the work with you at first. Routines are hard to make and old habits are easy. Tell him what you are doing and ask for help, but don't get upset if he doesn't. If he does help be happily surprised.

[Carrie12345]

Yes and no.  I have a bit of an issue with the word "permanently".  I've had periods of serious messiness and periods of respectable tidiness.  Much of it has been about life stages.

 

I was just getting into another great groove when small children came back into my life.  I've chosen sanity over neatness for the time being.  I'm very much looking forward to reclaiming a clean house!

[teachermom2834]

Dh and I both grew up in extremely messy houses in poor repair. My mom tended towards hoarding but my dad kept it in check. MIL is extereme hoarder like you see on the TV show. So we had no example. I want a clean house. My dh doesn't care.

 

When first married we lived like slobs. I remember pulling an all nighter once to clean our little apartment for company. Twenty years later I keep a pretty tidy house. I look around and see things that need to be done but I am not at all embarrassed for someone to drop by. If I knew someone was coming by 10 minutes would have us in really good shape.

 

I have to continually work at it. The kids getting older has helped a lot. I use the Motivated Moms app (just a daily checklist of chores). For some reason that has worked for me when other systems have not. I do think I will always have to work at it. Some days I just don't do it. For no reason at all. Currently I will catch up missed chores before the end of the week but I can see just letting it slide indefinitely sometime. I can't really make sense of it. Once it is under control the daily chores are quick and easy. But for some reason sometimes I just don't.

 

So, yes there is hope! But, yes, it probably always is hard.

[Paige]

Yes, you just have to be properly motivated and disciplined. Unfortunately, since your DH is also a messy, the motivation is probably not as high as it could be! DH and I are messy too, so no judgement.

 

My brother, on the other hand, was the messiest person ever. His room was a mess, when he moved out with some guys, their apartment was super disgusting, when he lived alone, it was pretty bad. And I'm saying this as a person who has a high messy tolerance.

 

Then he met my SIL, who is very neat and high maintenance, and everything changed. Now he's so neat he's uptight! He's just like my dad who wouldn't let the sun set on dust or a piece of lint on the floor! It's pretty funny. I don't know how SIL got him to do it or if he figured out he needed to present a different image to keep her, but it happened quickly. 

 

I wish I could have half of my brother's motivation to keep things clean, but I'd rather do just about anything. My brother also has fewer kids, they go to school, and he and his wife work out of the house, however, and I think that makes a huge difference. It's easier to keep a house clean if it's only occupied half the day.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Paige

[RoughCollie]

We moved to a house in which the living space is about half the size of our former home. We could not move all that stuff with us. At that point, I didn't have time to care. In the end, it didn't matter because I didn't miss the stuff. I didn't need any of it.

 

My neighbor's house (a single elderly man) and my mother's house (a single elderly woman) made an impression on me. I felt relaxed in both places because they were so neat and pretty and didn't have a bunch of stuff lying around.

 

So I went home and made sure that everything had a place and was in its place. I moved the excess stuff to the basement, then I gave it away to thrift stores. If we didn't use it in a year, out it went. I still do that every year.

 

Then I added a routine to my day. I hate routines, but it turns out they make life simpler because if I don't "work my routine" everything gets messy. I begin my chores by going to every room and doing daily clean-up. This takes maybe 5 minutes per room. I put everything my DD (all grown up now, but messy) leaves lying around in common areas in trash bags on the porch. The rule is that anything left on the porch will be put in the cans on trash day. Silly thing to do for a girl who is going to be 21 next week, but needs must.

 

I also made sure that my stuff was in check. I have enough clothes. If they don't fit (too small or too large), I keep them in storage boxes for one year. If they still don't fit, they go to a thrift store. I do not have enough clothes to outfit wardrobes for more than one person. I like to have an 8-day supply of clothes per season. Right now I'm about to give away nearly all my clothes because they are too large. (I am going to try to alter some of them.) If I keep them around, I will gain the weight back, that much I know about myself. It is easier to gain weight back when I know I won't have to go naked.

 

I generally don't re-read books. So after I read a book, I give it away. If the book doesn't get 3-5 stars on my personal rating system, I throw it in the trash. If I want to read a book again, I go to the library or to abebooks. Most of my books are stored on my Kindle now. I don't forget which books I've read because I keep a list on my computer.

 

I have a small kitchen and right now have a plastic bin in the basement with kitchen things I never use. Once it has been there for a year, I will donate the stuff to a thrift shop. Aldon Brown has a great book that hails the idea of not having an over-stuffed kitchen: Aldon Brown's Gear for Your Kitchen. It's at the library. It helps while reading it not to think that his kitchen is probably so large he doesn't need his own book!

 

I have a binder in which I keep recipes that I've copied from cookbooks, magazines, and the internet. If I don't make those recipes in a year, they are tossed.  This keeps the number of cookbooks I own way down from a high of several hundred. I also borrow cookbooks from the library -- let them store the books.

 

So, I'm perking along, feeling very tidy, when three things happen:

 

My neighbor confesses that his house is so tidy, organized, streamlined, and clutter free because all his stuff is stored in various outbuildings on his several pieces of property. His outbuilding are climate-controlled.

 

My mother, well she has lots of closets and they are all neatly stuffed to the gills. She lives alone in a stuffed 3-bedroom house -- you can't see the stuff unless you snoop, is all. I snooped. She has over 100 kitchen towels! No point in going through what else she has, just suffice it to say that many trips to thrift stores are in my future (hopefully far away future).

 

My husband moved his office into our home. His former office had been home to his things that there wasn't a place for in our home. He brought most of it home. He cannot bear to throw away ties (over 200 of them), clothes (enough to wear something different for every day for about 6 weeks), and books (which he will never re-read, but he doesn't like e-books).

 

So now I'm starting over, finding a place for everything so I can keep everything in its place.

 

And I will do it simply because I feel much less stressed out when my house is tidy and organized and I have a daily routine to keep it that way. DH has been warned -- if it won't fit, out it goes!

 

My kids are adults. Their personal belongings stay in their rooms. I am happy to help organize, but they don't want me to. They keep their doors closed anyway, so our dog doesn't get into stuff. Except for DD, who leaves stuff all over the place, and in whose bed the dog buries his marrow bones.

 

Keep in mind that I have fought this battle since my kids could walk. Success came along when they were teenagers. When I was homeschooling (a full-time job in itself), I would get one room organized and tidy, and move to the next. While I was doing the next room, the previous one would become disorganized and untidy.  It was a losing battle, and I think that any SAHM who homeschools has at least 2 full-time jobs, so no wonder.

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by RoughCollie

[AMJ]

My habits changed over time.  I used to have a messy house.  I grew up in a messy house, lol, and never learned different.  I was envious of those who could keep on top of it all.  I had to learn my brain did not work the same, neither did my habits.  I now refuse to have things that are too difficult to put away - I use baskets and bins, no lidded boxes, I keep clutter to a minimum, and I do cleaning in spurts: walking through a room I'll pick up and put away 5 things.  Or I'll stop doing dishes to wipe down one counter.  I'm not going to lie, Flylady helped immensely in setting small habits (like wiping down the sink, or tossing in laundry on the way to the kitchen in the morning).

 

My house is still not perfect by a long shot, but it's comfortable and that's all I was aiming for.

 

 

Putting in another plug for Flylady here, especially her Baby Steps.

 

I am NOT a neat and tidy person.  My home is not neat and tidy, it is lived in (in more than one sense of the phrase).  However it is presentable enough if anyone stops by -- this is partly due to certain Baby Steps habits, and partly a change of mindset.

 

OP, consider checking out Flylady again and read up on Stinkin' Thinkin' and Baby Steps.  Then start doing the Baby Steps.  

 

There are a lot of people who think they have "failed" Flylady, but there is no grade, no pass/fail here.  I, myself, have gone through several cycles of starting over again, and I'm still in one now -- a medical diagnosis requires some major life changes for me, and that coincided with several other demands that dragged me down and led to my house being quite a mess again.  But every time I go through another cycle I realize that a few more of the basic habits had stuck so thoroughly that I never backslid on them.

 

Part of what I had found (pre-Flylady) so discouraging was trying to get everything cleaned up, only to have it undone again before I finished.  This is part of the mindset change I needed -- what actually constituted "clean".  I had a rather particular mother who taught me particular standards of "clean", and these were further ingrained when I worked as Head of Housekeeping at a guest ranch.  The cabins at the ranch, however, had nice furnishings but little clutter other than what the guests brought with them and so they were quick and easy to clean to standards.  My Mom had places for everything and was a bit OCD about making sure everything was put back in its place, so her house was also quick and easy to clean (even when I lived there).

 

My Dad, on the other hand, is a piler, and he flits from project to project, topic to topic, task to task.  I take after my Dad.  And I married a similar guy.

 

This means we always have a lot of stuff out and about because we are in various stages of working on all of it.  We don't have a place for everything so everything doesn't get put away in its place.  This makes it harder to clean because we have to clean around stuff and clean all of that stuff sitting out as well.  When this gets too out of hand I go back and restart the Baby Steps again.

 

One habit added each day, along with practicing the habits learned from previous days.  Starting small is less daunting, less likely to make one quit just because of the sheer size of the whole project.  Start small.  Change your mindset -- drop any ideas of perfection.  Any cleaning and tidying you do is progress, and recognizing that progress makes it easier to do more.  Look at what you have managed to do and look for the next piece to do.  Don't focus on the whole mess.

 

Yes, messy people can change, but it takes deliberation and determination.  It also takes a realistic mindset, not some expectation of reaching a magic picture of tidy that doesn't match one's lifestyle.  

If Flylady just doesn't do it for you then there's another tactic to take which will at least keep you working at it -- pick whatever bothers you most at the moment and work on that.  Be considerate of yourself and those you live with (don't throw out someone else's stuff), and maybe have a family meeting to discuss what bothers each person most and have each person pick ONE task to take care of.  Then repeat weekly.

 

Whatever you decide just do something, and keep on doing something.  And stop to recognize and appreciate what you and anyone else in your home has actually done.  Then go do another something.

[Sarah CB]

I'm not sure I could have changed if my dh was messy, too. Most of the arguments we had early in our marriage were over housekeeping. He grew up in a home where a stray crumb on the counter was noticed and towels in the bathroom had to be folded a certain way. I grew up in a clean but lived in home (not sure where my major messy tendencies come from...). 

 

The biggest help for me was FlyLady. I didn't last long on it - dh said it was the best 3 weeks of his life. But, some of the routines stuck. So I have little rules for myself built out of those routines. Like I can't actually leave the kitchen until it's clean. So, after dinner I finish the kitchen before I sit down to do something else. I make my bed as soon as I get out of it in the morning. I also put away all of my clothes and tidy my bathroom as I'm leaving it. 

 

I like what the FlyLady said about creating a relaxing living space for my family. I do feel more relaxed when the house is clean and inviting. So I try to put things where they belong instead of on the coffee table and I run around and do a quick tidy before I leave the house - so that I come home to a clean and relaxing place. 

 

I still have problem areas. Like my car. It's clean today, but it's usually full of all kinds of horrible things. My laundry room used to be horribly messy and full, but now that it's on the main floor I actually keep up with my ironing and laundry. 

 

I would try the FlyLady - maybe even set yourself a minimum amount of time - commit to it for 30 days or something. I am willing to bet that 30 days on FlyLady (reading all the emails, too) would make some of her daily routines permanent for you.

[gardenmom5]

yes.  years ago, I was loaned a book on housekeeping methods.

 

it was written by two sisters who were slobs/hoarders. (their mother was neat, and tried to teach them.  she even had saturday room fits trying to get them to clean.)  they came up with a very organized method, which they actually used in their lives.  one sister even ended up dumping her husband because as she changed - she realized what a negative undermining guy he really was.

 

one thing that sticks out - they were having coffee/tea with a friend and asking for advice on how to clean.  they were slobs/hoarders.  the friend tried to think of what to say, and focused on the used tea bags sitting on the counter.  she told them, when you're done with the tea bag - throw it away.  something that basic was still an epiphany to them.

 

dh has very strong feelings the dishwasher needs to be unloaded as soon as it's done - so dirty dishes will go in the dishwasher, and not on the counter.   i prefer to have the kitchen clean when I go to bed - so I can work in a clean kitchen in the morning.

 

[Anne in CA]

Flylady is awesome at cheerfully helping you to let go of things you don't use. I really recommend Flylady because she is so upbeat and makes throwing out your trash and decluttering fun.

[fairfarmhand]

Yes, it is possible, because I have done it. First thing, that I needed to do, was to edit down my possessions to a manageable for me Amount. Remember this is not a one time thing. I have to constantly be on alert for can I get rid of this thing ? is it broken? Does it still fit? Is it in good repair? If not how likely am I to get it to Usable state in a reasonable amount of time? It's really remaking your mindset with regard to your stuff. Don't ever feel that your wasteful for getting rid of items that may be usable. Think about blessing other people with your stuff. And the time that you will save not having to look for things, not being depressed because your house is a dump, and just making your home and life and mental state flow better is valuable too.

 

Second take the time to invest in workable practical storage solutions for your home. I just now bought four new book cases that I've been thinking about for over 10 years. My husband and I consistently talked about when we build those bookcases; bookcases are easy to build. But it wasn't getting done. So finally I just bought them and I'm glad I did.

 

Third don't feel that you have to go minimalistic right away. take your time and be patient with yourself.

 

Fourth don't procrastinate. Get in the habit of putting things away immediately after you use that thing. I had to stop going to bed when the kitchen was a mess. Mess attracts mess. If I allow one corner of clutter to grow on my counter, soon I will not be able to see the counter at all.

 

Fourth finish the job. This means if I've spent 40 minutes cleaning the living room, why not spend an extra five and vacuum the carpet so it really looks good. I found that a nice tidy clean room attracts less mess and I'm more likely to keep it clean then if I don't complete the job.

 

Fifth my messy friend told me once that hosting a weekly Bible study at her house was the best thing for her housekeeping. She was accountable each week to have her bathrooms clean, the living room, and the public areas of the house done because people would be there. So rather than avoiding having company. I do better if I invite people over more frequently because I am more motivated to keep things tidy.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ellie]

According to the authors of the Sidetracked Home Executives, the Messies Manual, and the Flylady (who got her start from the Sidetracked Home Executives), yes.

 

I especially appreciated the Sidetracked Home Executives follow-up book, where they discussed how life went with their families, who were used to living in squalor and who had to be retrained.

[Carrousel]

Mostly commiserating, as we are messy people who don't like mess too. I read the Kon Mari book and did a major whole house declutter and that helped jump start me, although I don't think mine was a one and done type event like she suggests. It did help me become more choosy about what I bring into the house, and I find myself thinking about where something will go and how much it will be worn or used before I buy it.

 

Small routines and habits have worked best for me so far. Bed made, bathroom sink wiped, empty kitchen sink, all help me feel like our house is decently presentable. Basement rec room and kids rooms are almost never presentable on a moment's notice but I'm not sweating it yet. The "one touch" rule is helping too-- you touch something one time-- when you take off shoes or a coat, you don't lay them on the couch or leave them by the chair, you touch them once-- they go straight to their put away spot. Same for purses, backpacks, sports equipment, etc.

 

My biggest challenge is horizontal clutter--- kitchen island, dressers, desk all have piles on them that are dropped there or "sorted" but not dealt with or filed, etc. I keep visualizing empty counters and a cleared off dresser, and am trying to figure out how to make that a reality in our house! I find when I have a vase of flowers on the kitchen island, I don't want anything messy around them so I clean it off. If only I could have fresh flowers there all the time! :)

[dirty ethel rackham]

I haven't read all the replies so I hope I am not repeating something.  I think that change is possible.  But, it can be overwhelming.  For many people, it means taking baby steps to start new habits.  Picking one area to focus on and do what it takes to make that a habit. 

 

For me, that is a daily list.  I have to carve out time every day to make my daily list.   I have had to work on making that list reasonable and realistic.  I only put on that list what is realistic for today.  I may put on the side of that list a brain dump of other things that I think needs to be attended to and may put them in my calendar if any of them are time sensitive.  When it comes to my house, I focus on one area.  Lately, it has been my kitchen.  That room gets the messiest several times a day.  That is the room where I make the decisions on what gets past the kitchen to the rest of the house.  That is the room where I focus on being neat because I use it several times a day. 

 

I did hire a professional organizer to help me when I was completely overwhelmed (like I was paralyzed and couldn't do my taxes because the paper was so overwhelming.)  She helped me with some clutter-prevention ideas.  In the kitchen, I am working on a mantra of "nothing leaves this room without a place to go."  I ask myself "Is it necessary?" "Do I need it in this form?"  "Why do I want to hang on to it?"  "Is it reasonable for me to keep it?"  I have been taking advantage of my camera on my phone, my scanner on my printer/copier/scanner, and my shredder.  So far, my house has only been 1 hour away from "I won't be too embarrassed to have someone over"  (provided I have some help from the family to help do a crisis straighten/clean.)  That is an improvement.  As someone who suffers from depression and has had some big life challenges, this is huge!!  (Seriously, hiring the organizer helped and was like therapy.  I actually started to bawl in front of  her when faced with a decision about some school papers and she told me that I could give myself permission to keep some things, but just make a place for them.) 

 

I hope you can find something that works for you ... even just a little thing that can help you take small bites. 

[happi duck]

yes. years ago, I was loaned a book on housekeeping methods.

 

it was written by two sisters who were slobs/hoarders. (their mother was neat, and tried to teach them. she even had saturday room fits trying to get them to clean.) they came up with a very organized method, which they actually used in their lives. one sister even ended up dumping her husband because as she changed - she realized what a negative undermining guy he really was.

 

one thing that sticks out - they were having coffee/tea with a friend and asking for advice on how to clean. they were slobs/hoarders. the friend tried to think of what to say, and focused on the used tea bags sitting on the counter. she told them, when you're done with the tea bag - throw it away. something that basic was still an epiphany to them.

 

dh has very strong feelings the dishwasher needs to be unloaded as soon as it's done - so dirty dishes will go in the dishwasher, and not on the counter. i prefer to have the kitchen clean when I go to bed - so I can work in a clean kitchen in the morning.

This book is Sidetracked Home Executives.

 

The card method in this book comes the closest to helping me.

 

During times of stress our house is very cluttered and I hate it.

 

(hugs)

[Garga]

I don't have answers other than to pass on a few thoughts:

 

1. I tell myself, "This house is not the show house. This house is not the museum replica. This house is the house being used on a day-to-day basis." So often we feel like our houses should look like the show house in a development or should look like the replica of a home found in a museum. No. This house is in active use. That makes me feel better. My kitchen isn't the model of Julia Child's found in the Smithsonian museum. My kitchen is being used, 5-6 times a day.

 

2. I tell myself, "Which house was better? The Dursley's or the Weasley's? Which house was spotless and which was a mess? Which one would I want to live in?" I'm quite happy in my Weasley home with all the crazy colors of paint on the wall and odd little tchotchkes and antiques I've picked up over the years.

 

3. The bible does not say that cleanliness is next to Godliness. Why is it even a thing for a house to be spotless? Who really cares? As long as people aren't getting sick and there aren't health hazards, then honestly, really, think about it---who cares? Why is this a social thing at all? Why does a clean house somehow seem linked to morality? There's no good reason.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Garga

[Garga]

I realized about 5 years ago that I honestly don't care about having a cluttery house. My dh cares. So, there's the problem.

 

If I lived alone, one of two things would happen:

 

I'd go total Kon Mari and live ridiculously simply. I can't do that now. While DH doesn't like clutter, he does like things. And...kids. But if I was in total control? I could have the house empty and spotless and would love it.

 

OR

 

I'd go the opposite way. I'd live in a cluttered mess and be happy as a clam. I wouldn't sink to having health hazards. But I would live like a messy professor, hidden away in an easy chair with stacks of books around my feet and cats lying all around and knickknacks everywhere.

 

I'm really not sure which way I'd go: sleek and spotless or cluttered with pots of tea and stacks of books.

[heartlikealion]

Following. I'm messy. I don't always put things away right away or things don't have a "home." I was just thinking about the bad habits ds has and how I probably started them. I need to designate a place for his belt because "put it in your room" is not working.

 

My goal is to decrease the amount of things I own and organize what I do have. I also read Konmari, but throwing a pile of clothes down and sorting through it sounds like a disaster. The pile would probably just sit there, toddler would run off with items, etc. When I read that book I wondered if she ever helped families or just single people with no kids lol.

[SKL]

Since you asked - based on my lifelong observations, on average, it may get better, but messy people on average stay on the messy side of average over time.

 

I think a big part of it is not being willing to part with things.  So I think I would focus on that.  One thing I try to do in my house is if I'm bringing something new in, something old (or preferably more than one thing) needs to go out.

 

The other thing is to break it down so it doesn't get you down.  Can you just spend 10 minutes a day - or 10 minutes 2 days a week - doing some cleaning that normally doesn't get done?  Something that doesn't involve moving clutter from one spot to another, but will have lasting results.  You still won't be on the cover of House Beautiful, but you will feel better, and that's more important IMO.

 

I can't say much - I currently have areas of my house that are pretty bad since I prioritize other things over housework.  It would be worse if I didn't have to clean for the maids once a month.  :P  And I *like* cleaning.

[happi duck]

I just realized that I don't mind messy if I know that it won't stay that way.

 

So a stack of books being used during the week but have a home where they will go eventually is fine. But a stack of books that don't have a home would bug me.

[bettyandbob]

I keep coming back to this thread, then getting up and organizing something. I've out a few more things in my giveaway pile too.

[Garga]

I just realized that I don't mind messy if I know that it won't stay that way.

 

So a stack of books being used during the week but have a home where they will go eventually is fine. But a stack of books that don't have a home would bug me.

 

Yes! This is true for me, too. My in-laws moved to a smaller house recently and my DH came home day after day with a lot of their stuff that they got rid of.

 

It's great stuff...but I live in a house that's smaller than their new house. Smaller. And my house is already packed to the gills. So...they were getting rid of stuff for their new 1600 sq ft house by giving it to my dh who lives in a 1300 sq ft, packed, house.

 

There are piles of things and I honestly have no idea where to put them. No idea. I hate it.

 

As you said, if something has a home, I don't mind if it's out. But if it doesn't have a home, I am Not Happy.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Garga

[Artichoke]

Another Slob Sisters and Flylady devotee, here.  These ladies and their systems changed our lives for the better.   Training myself and my family to put things away when we were finished with them was by far the biggest game changer in our housekeeping habits.  That along with weekly routines and de-cluttering has kept our home tidy and comfortable for a lot of years.   I've had several people  tell me that they feel like my home hugs them while they're here.  I always tear up when I hear this because I never thought I could open my home to others much less make them feel hugged.  Best wishes as you find what works for you and yours. 

[SKL]

I have a daughter who hates it when I clean (before the maids come), because she feels more comfortable with crap lying around her room.  She'll go around and pull stuff out just to feel more comfy.

 

I don't have much hope for that child.  :p

Edited October 13, 2016 by SKL

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Following.

 

I am fairly good at keeping the main areas clear:  Kitchen, living room, dining room, sunroom

 

But even that has gotten cluttered, dusty, and needs vacuuming since I have gone back to work.

 

But the basement, bedrooms, and office are a true disaster.  

 

I am like you, I don't have gross stuff all around, but people just don't pick up.  I have piles of sheets, clothing, and books in my bedroom that I don't even notice anymore because I just don't have the energy to actually do anything about it.  And don't even mention the attic, garage, or closets.  

 

I need to just have some goals:

 

Clean my bedroom this weekend

Go through the basement over Thanksgiving/Christmas break

ETC

 

But lots of times during breaks, I just want to do NOTHING or just do the fun stuff.

 

All that to say, WE ARE RIGHT THERE WITH YOU!

 

This. I don't have the energy to stay on top of people who leave their stuff behind. I just can't nag that much. The house might be cleaner, but we'd all hate each other, and I'd be miserable because I'd be angry all the time. And there always seems to be something higher priority to do. Thankfully, we're not hoarders. We just don't see all the STUFF, especially when it's sat there forever already. 

 

I do think people can change in the long term, but I think it's really difficult and fairly uncommon. 

[TravelingChris]

Both dh and I tend to have piles.  But we have managed to whittle piles down and with about one hour's notice, I would have everything neat.  Even with no notice, I am not ashamed to have someone over.  They would see that we are readers.  Our coffee table is full of books, magazines and newspapers.  That is the area I would tend with notice.  But I am doing much better with messes now.  My bedroom is neat except for one pile of clothes on a small dresser.  My office has tubs and some piles but basically neat.  My living room has that coffee table.  But there are no piles on my nightstand, on my desk, on the dining room table, on the counters between the kitchen and the living room, or on the bench next to the front door.  So yes, we have reformed and kept our messes tidy.

[skimomma]

I was very messy growing up and have slowly evolved to the other end of the spectrum.  

 

For me, it was not about learning to organize, declutter, or clean.  It was not really even about habits although I have developed some that make it easier to be neat.  The biggest factor was distance from the house I grew up in.  My mom is a hoarder.  It was not quite as bad when I was growing up as it has gotten after I left home, mostly because my dad was still alive and did keep the hoarding down to a dull roar.  I would say the house was always very cluttered and often this prevented thorough cleaning so it was also dirty.  Having grown up in it, it was my "normal" and I had inherited a lot of the same habits.  But with time and distance, I came to realize how truly uncomfortable and visually chaotic (and just plain DIRTY) my mother's house was.  That was enough to change ME.

 

It was not instant.  It took years to get to the spot where I could declutter.  I knew I had arrived when I finally boxed up the last of the knickknacks (AKA dust collectors).  My house is very much "lived in" and certainly does not look like a magazine.  But every night when I go to bed, the house is a clean slate.  The kitchen counters are cleared off and clean, all dishes either put away or in dishwasher, all tables, couches, chairs, floors, etc, are void of stray items.  Kitchen sink is clean.  Bathroom counters are clear and clean.  Laundry is either clean and put away or in hampers.  Floors swept.  I am the person who does pick up the towel left on the ground or glass abandoned on a coffee table.  I do not find this counter to "living in" a space.  I see it as far easier to start that next project or meal or chore when I don't first have to pick up.  

 

The habits I have developed really fall into three main habits.  I subscribe to the handle-one-time rule.  For instance, when I bring in the mail, it is immediately sorted into recycling (put into bin right then) or needs-to-be-taken-care-of which is a specific location in a specific cabinet that gets addressed weekly when I do the bills.  Or when I do laundry, if I am holding something as I take it out of the dryer, I have committed to folding and then putting away that item.

 

The second is habitual decluttering.  I am ruthless.  I never get rid of another family member's belongings without permission but common items or things that belong to me have to be useful if they want to stay.

 

And the third is careful attention to storage.  I live in a very old house that lacks closets and I do not have any "safe" storage in my wet basement or not-climate-controlled attic.  This means that my furniture has to include storage.  I have created spaces for projects-in-progress and other barriers to clutter-battle.  Dd can make the biggest multi-day art-project mess, but when she is not actively working on it, there is a place behind a door that it can go.  If something is parked there for more than a few days with no attention, it gets an eviction notice.  Same with school stuff.  Dd cannot seem to keep it organized despite my help and providing every possible organizational tool known to man so we have a large cabinet (with DOORS) that she can put her school stuff in.  It is not pretty but at least I don't have to look at it.

 

 

[MyLittleBears]

My hubby is the messiest person I know. He's clean, but hopelessly messy. I have been trying hard to help him reform for years and he does want to change but it only has gotten slightly better. I can't function in a messy environment so he really tries but I end up decluttering all...the...time. So no, I don't think it is possible to have a complete turn around, maybe just slight improvement.

[Katy]

I've developed systems to change, BUT I am not particularly super clean at heart.  I don't get up and clean things until everything is spotless.  I'm not a Monica, but I do like things to look nice.

 

I guess it's better to explain how our lives work.  DH and all of us have some degree of ADHD.  DH is a total slob, though he will putter around and clean things up occasionally. I figured out when we got married that I would have to clean up my act.  One too many 4-am key, belt, shoe, or wallet hunts convinced me something needed to change because missing sleep early in the morning was more of an inconvenience than figuring it out.  I read a ton.  Fly-lady, books on organizing for ADHD, books on designing a self-cleaning home, etc.   So those concepts in my head help me develop systems that work for us, without a ton of extra effort on my part.

 

Having said that, DH is a midlevel engineer for a large corporation.  We move every few years, and while on paper we could probably afford a McMansion with tons of storage, we refuse to buy one.  We prefer financial security to conspicuous consumption. Once DH is done with grad school and his student loans are paid off and the kids college and wedding funds are paid for and we have enough to comfortably retire, we might build a house on a lake that is perfectly tailored for easily keeping clean, but that's a big maybe someday.

 

The reality is that every few years we move to a slightly smaller house in a more expensive area.  So for about a year after moving, our house is a cluttered mess. Eventually, slowly, I get everything in place where it's easy to get realtor-ready in less than 15 minutes.  But that is not instant, and those systems are challenging to figure out.

 

Things that really helped me to change:

• Read flylady.  My kitchen sink is almost never clean. I hardly ever wear shoes in my house, even when I take the time to put on a dress in the morning, so I don't follow her systems by the book.  Her advice is still valuable, because it changes your perfection mindset.  Home cleaning done imperfectly still blesses your family. Doing something for only 15 minutes once a week still gets more done than procrastinating and working for 4 hours every six months only to quit out of overwhelm.  Also, a quick swish and swipe in the bathroom every morning and a load of laundry a day works wonders for keeping your house feeling clean.
• Have a place for everything.  It's impossible to clean if everything doesn't have a home, and if everyone who uses it doesn't know where it belongs.  This is the most challenging system for me to set up, and it's why my house is slightly cluttered right now.  If you have something that you use every day, have it in a logical place near where you need it.  If you have something you only use a few times a year, or a few weeks a year, build storage. For example:  I have a couple of sewing machines.  I don't sew a great deal anymore, mostly only need to hem or repair things occasionally.  My sewing stuff no longer has a place in the house unless I'm using it right now.  I got a couple large plastic bins.  One is for my fabric and thread stash.  One is for my sewing machines.  Both are labeled and are up in plastic bins on storage shelves in the garage. Keep stuff you need or want to keep, but keep it put away in a labeled bin.  If you want it to look really great, get matching bins. 
• Do not keep stuff on horizontal surfaces.  Perhaps one centerpiece per table, or one tray on the entry table to hold mail and your keys, but that's it.
• Konmari is interesting, but you can get the gist and learn the folding technique without the irritating animism on YouTube.
• If you have ADHD, strongly consider reading books about the self-cleaning home and organizing for ADHD.  Having systems in place where things are visible and easy are very helpful.  For example- no one in my family can close a cabinet door except me.  It used to drive me crazy, but then I switched to open shelves on top and self-closing drawers on the bottom.  This house doesn't have that yet, but it will before we move again.   Another example:  raising the counter on the living room side of a great room kitchen island might not be as trendy right now, but it's totally worth it. It's still open, but you can't see the breakfast dishes piled up by the sink.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I guess I'd consider how necessary it is to change.  There is messy and then there is disgusting to a level that's hazardous.  If you are only messy, then meh, why bother?  It's not a big deal IMO. 

 

 

[Tess in the Burbs]

I was a slob as a teen, but now i keep a tidy house.  I don't deep clean as much as I want, but my house is tidy clean.  So yes, I made HUGE changes to become this person.  Not sure what happened or motivated me to it though.  

[Ausmumof3]

I have a daughter who hates it when I clean (before the maids come), because she feels more comfortable with crap lying around her room. She'll go around and pull stuff out just to feel more comfy.

 

I don't have much hope for that child. :p

I am a little like this. If things are too tidy I feel a bit edgy.

[heartlikealion]

I guess I'd consider how necessary it is to change.  There is messy and then there is disgusting to a level that's hazardous.  If you are only messy, then meh, why bother?  It's not a big deal IMO. 

 

Depending on the person and level of mess it can affect us mentally. I think I feel better when the home is cleaner. But I don't need it cleaned to perfection, either. Right now I have laundry baskets of clean clothes and they drive me nuts. Everytime I try to do anything I get interrupted so they often sit there way too long. Dh promised a folding party with me so I'm going to see if he's coming to the party tonight LOL

[SparklyUnicorn]

Depending on the person and level of mess it can affect us mentally. I think I feel better when the home is cleaner. But I don't need it cleaned to perfection, either. Right now I have laundry baskets of clean clothes and they drive me nuts. Everytime I try to do anything I get interrupted so they often sit there way too long. Dh promised a folding party with me so I'm going to see if he's coming to the party tonight LOL

 

Well some tasks are never done.  There are always dirty clothes, dirty dishes, dust, etc.  You just keep going and going and going with those things.  I guess I'm thinking this is related to having a lot of stuff.  You just hang onto stuff.  I'm not attached to stuff at all because I grew up being unable to hang onto anything due to a lack of space.  Interesting how I turned out with my attitude verses the OP because she basically went in the other direction because she was never allowed to hold onto her stuff.  It is what it is.  If the stuff brings comfort and isn't interfering with functioning, then to me it's not a huge deal.  If it is a problem for whatever reason, then yeah I suppose.  I do think it's difficult to change drastically and I believe most people don't change drastically.

[Ausmumof3]

Yes and no. I was tidy during my two flylady years but I also feel like I lost a little of myself in the process and became less creative. I was busy with routines and had less time or headspace for my family. Though in other ways I probably achieved more with the tidiness. Some of the changes definitely helped like daily laundry as I grew up with weekly and always had piles.

 

Kon Mari helped a little. But one thing she says in her book is "there's two types of messy - people that can't throw anything away and people that don't put anything away". I more the latter which makes life long change harder I think because there's no magic bullet of letting stuff go and then being organised.

[heartlikealion]

Yes and no. I was tidy during my two flylady years but I also feel like I lost a little of myself in the process and became less creative. I was busy with routines and had less time or headspace for my family. Though in other ways I probably achieved more with the tidiness. Some of the changes definitely helped like daily laundry as I grew up with weekly and always had piles.

 

Kon Mari helped a little. But one thing she says in her book is "there's two types of messy - people that can't throw anything away and people that don't put anything away". I more the latter which makes life long change harder I think because there's no magic bullet of letting stuff go and then being organised.

 

I think once I focus on the first it'll be easier for everything to have a home and easier to work on putting things in their home. This is what I tell myself, anyway  :lol: 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I think you can neaten up, but you have to either be willing to purge OR you need ample out-of-sight storage. More stuff doesn't create a messy look unless it's all out and scattered. I had an aunt with TONS of stuff, but it was all organized and had a home. Her house was so neat. I'm NOT that naturally organized, nor do I have her closet space, so I have to purge to maintain order.

[Janeway]

I would be perfectly happy if I never had to worry about what others think. I am sick of ridding of stuff. I ran across a dress in storage a yesterday that I would never use now. But when I saw it, the memories flooded back, happy memories. I want to keep it.