Taking a baby out of the carseat on a long trip? - Update in #96

[Outdoorsy Type]

No. I know someone whose baby died while being held in a car 50+ years ago. She never got over it. 😢

[Garga]

Nope. I'm stern about seatbelts and carseats. I don't let my 14 yo sit in the front seat with the airbag because I've heard that a person's bones are too weak to handle the power of an airbag until they're 16. My MIL and FIL try to get away without wearing seatbelts in the backseat, but I just sit there until they put them on. I don't want a 150-pound person crashing into the back of my neck.

 

Babies fly out of your arms in an accident. Everyone is in a carseat or seatbelt, every time.

[wendyroo]

There is no such thing as a baby being "too used" to being held most of the day. Babies are hardwired to want to be in-arms and that is a good thing.

 

I tend to think that an older baby gradually learning a teeny, tiny bit of independence is a good, healthy thing.  Baby might not like it, but being content playing right next to me for a couple minutes while I sit on the floor dressing a sibling is a really important skill.  Or sitting in the high chair pulled up to the school table while I do a science experiment with the older kids.  Or riding in the stroller for a walk around the block when he or she would rather be carried.

 

I'm not saying that doing those types of things would necessarily lead to baby being happy in the carseat, but I think babies are also hard-wired to adapt to how things are done in their cultures.  They learn to like the foods their families eat.  They adapt to being cared for by their parents or grandparents or sibling or aunts or daycare workers or whoever cares for children in their culture.  They learn to imitate the behaviors they see others using - here babies imitate talking on phones, but I'm betting in Amazonian villages they imitate behaviors common to their culture.

 

I agree with you there there isn't any problem with a baby being used to being held "most of the day", but I also, personally, wanted my babies to come to terms with the fact that sometimes being held was just not an option.

 

Wendy

[JumpyTheFrog]

There's no such thing as holding a baby too much. ITA with Ravin.

 

The baby fussing, wanting to nurse, and being highly uncomfortable in a car seat can be signs of reflux. If they are using a bucket seat, sometimes the larger (still RF) convertible seats are more comfy. You could approach it by suggesting they move on to another seat, but I'd be prepared for it to be taken defensively. It's really, really unsafe, but they'd have to live under a rock not to know that these days. Are they recent immigrants?

 

I'd never criticize a mom for nursing "too much," but it would be really hard to stay quiet on the car seat issue.

 

 

I'm not criticizing the mom for nursing "too much" or even holding her so much. The only reason I even brought it up was to mention that their parenting philosophy might be making it harder for them to accept the idea that sometimes babies cry in the car, but that they still need to stay in the car seat.

 

When I mentioned the baby being clingy, I didn't mean after the long car ride (which would be a totally understandable time to be clingy). The mom says she seems clingy most days, all afternoon. I guess that isn't really relevant to the car seat discussion.

[happypamama]

Absolutely not. Never ever. In fact, when one of my toddlers needed to be transported via ambulance (non emergent, but that's how they transfer between hospitals), I requested that they bring his car seat. They buckled him into it and anchored it to the stretcher. In a normal moving car, no way.

 

I remember reading in some parenting magazine a mom's account. Her mother was driving her baby around town, and the baby started to fuss, so Grandma took her out and held her on her lap while driving. A couple of minutes later, a teenager ran a stop sign, causing a collision, and the baby was killed. I can't imagine how awful that must be.

[nd293]

It's a terrible, terrible idea.

 

That said, driving for hours with a child that won't stop screaming doesn't particularly facilitate driver concentration.

 

And sitting on the side of the road screaming at each other because everyone knows you have to start driving again and everyone knows that the baby will start crying the moment you do and no one knows how to fix the problem isn't much fun either.

 

I can actually feel my heart rate going up just thinking about it again. It's probably not about not wanting the baby unhappy. It's probably about knowing you have to get to the other end of the journey and making a conscious decision about trade offs between safety and sanity. If you haven't had a baby that screams in the car there's no way of knowing how torturous it is.

[Carrie12345]

 I may have thought about throwing myself off a bridge,

 

 

Um, you do know that driving off a bridge would risk everyone's safety too, right? Probably best to pull over, at that point, but if it's between baby in lap vs driver thinking about driving off a bridge, I'd go with baby in lap.

 

Hey, hey, hey!  I specified THROWING MYSELF off a bridge, not driving my family off!  :tongue_smilie:

[SKL]

It's illegal.  But I understand and would not judge.  I would try to find some suggestions for other ways to deal with the problem.

[gingersmom]

It boggles the imagination that anyone would think this is a good idea.

[City Mouse]

No way!

As a teenager I used to volunteer at a local hospital. After all these years, I don't remember most f the patients, but I will never forget the toddler that was severely injured Ina car crash where no one was belted in. Imagine an 18 month old little boy that went head first into a windshield. Is only good luck was that he was not ejected. Even worse- parent were in the crash were hurt even worse and this poor little boy was alone in the hospital for several days. I spent two days holding that boy because the nurses did not have time for that.

 

That being said, when my DD was 6 weeks old and we were traveling cross country, I did take her out of her car seat when we were stuck in a 3 hour traffic jam due to flooding. We did not move more than about 500 yard in 3 hours.if it had not been so hot, I could have just walked with here.

[luuknam]

Hey, hey, hey!  I specified THROWING MYSELF off a bridge, not driving my family off!  :tongue_smilie:

 

I know. It's just that for some people, one thought can lead to another, and the other thought could potentially lead to undesirable action.

[BooksandBoys]

No.

I had a severely colicky baby for 9 months who continued his very vocal displeasure of the car seat until he was 4 years old. We had to do many cross country car trips. Still no. Never. Liberal screen time, lots of singing, lots of snacks.

[HomeAgain]

Nope, though I have gotten tired of the screaming and replaced the seat with a different, more comfortable one.  I wouldn't ride without my seatbelt so I won't let my child do it, either.

[katilac]

You are giving me flashbacks to f-i-l's constant refrain when my kids were babies: Why don't you just take her out? Can't you take her out? Why don't you just hold her for a minute? We didn't have carseats back in my day!

 

I had a car-screamer and frequent nurser. Nope, didn't do it, not worth it. If we had gotten into a wreck in that few minutes, I would never have forgiven myself. 

 

However, I am here to tell you that it is not impossible to nurse a baby secured in their car seat  :laugh:

[eternalsummer]

I'm not criticizing the mom for nursing "too much" or even holding her so much. The only reason I even brought it up was to mention that their parenting philosophy might be making it harder for them to accept the idea that sometimes babies cry in the car, but that they still need to stay in the car seat.

 

When I mentioned the baby being clingy, I didn't mean after the long car ride (which would be a totally understandable time to be clingy). The mom says she seems clingy most days, all afternoon. I guess that isn't really relevant to the car seat discussion.

 

I don't think this is a parenting philosophy issue.  I don't let our babies cry (that is to say, I comfort them or provide what they need to stop crying immediately, every time) and I would never ride with a baby unbuckled.  I do, however, lean over to nurse, or stop the car.  I'd have to be being chased by zombies or something to be willing to drive for hours with a crying or fussing baby; every other option (except unbuckling) comes first.  

 

I think they just don't have enough coping mechanisms for this specific circumstance, and need some good ideas.  One they have already come up with: don't take baby on long car trips.  Maybe the mom could be taught how to do the lean and nurse thing?  Are they opposed to pacifiers?  A pacifier might really help in this kind of situation.  We always bought special thisses and thats for trips like this (even just 2-3 hour trips); even a young baby will like a shiny new thing, especially if it makes an obnoxious noise, ime.

[ktgrok]

My babies suck in cars. We took the train instead for long trips, so I could hold and nurse them the whole way. 

[ktgrok]

My babies suck in cars. We took the train instead for long trips, so I could hold and nurse them the whole way. 

 

Edited to add: Can you suggest that they fly or take a train, since taking the baby out of the car seat isn't a safe thing to do again?

[amy g.]

No. Never okay.

 

I had kids who screamed in the car seat. When Dh was driving, I leaned over and nursed them without taking them out.

 

I would never have risked their lives just so we could have quiet.

[momto10blessings]

I know several families who just throw their kids in their vehicles, no buckling of carseats at all. So crazy. My kids aren't allowed to ride with them.

[momacacia]

It's a big no here too...even before the story of the family with a bunch of kids in a Suburban who were in a big car crash and the entire family survived except the 12yo, who was the only one unbundled.

 

Seatbelts save lives.

[mamiof5]

No, never. Know someone who's 9 old dd was the only fatality in a car accident, baby was held, person holding her couldn't hold unto her during the collision.. baby landed on head and died.

 

This was a long time ago, prior to carseats. Carseats were invented for a reason.

[Mbelle]

I found this interesting.  I'd like to see more research, but quite compelling.  I want to make sure the carseats are actually safer for my 4 year old and this sheds doubt.  It seems they are safer for infants, but other buckling systems are better for older kids.   

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_levitt_on_child_carseats?language=en

 

 

[Laura Corin]

 

As for airplanes there is only one documented instance in the last 30 years of a lap baby dying on a plane crash that was otherwise survivable and in that case, the airline attendant told the mother to do something ridiculous like squish the baby under a seat or something. Not recalling the details now. Long time since I was a car seat tech volunteer. The only reason we ever took a car seat on the plane was for the comfort of the child and the convenience of being able to strap him in so he wasn't wiggling under the seats. Airplanes are already so much safer than cars that the safety of a car seat isn't really a measurable factor.

 

I never worried about plane crashes, but I did about turbulence.  A friend was on a plane that hit turbulence and a baby was thrown out of a passenger's arms and hit its head on the luggage lockers overhead.  There was no airport to divert to, but it had not regained consciousness by the time they landed.  I know this is rare but I always used the  seat-belt extenders (different from those for large people - these put the baby in its own loop, not squashed against the adult) whenever my baby was on my lap, and I had him strapped into his own seat whenever possible.

 

http://www.skyart.com/aircraft-accessories/infant-aircraft-seat-belt/

 

[katilac]

I never worried about plane crashes, but I did about turbulence.   

 

Good point. 

[shawthorne44]

I'll add to the no ways! When dd9 was 6 months old we moved cross country. I drove 5 long days with her in the car and she was always buckled. I sang and listened to the same song over and over to calm her. We stopped a lot to rest/nurse but we did it.

 

The same song.  Yup. Totally relate to that.   I got so tired of that song I'd sometimes ask DH to stop singing it because I'd rather listen to the crying.  Then, I'd ask him to start singing again, then I'd ask him to stop, repeat.  But, only that one song would do.   We even named our dog after that song.  

 

As a tiny baby, only one song (a different one, Dance Little Baby) would get her to stop crying.  I didn't mind that one.  We called it the "Torture Daddy" song.   

[ashfern]

 

 

Plus, a baby who learns that a moving car equals being buckled in makes it easier to have a toddler/preschooler/kid who travels without getting out of the carseat while moving.   It's torture now but it pays off in the years to come. 

 

Yes! Mine all hated being in the car as babies. My 2 yo will yell at DH to put his seatbelt on because he unbuckles it to back the van into the driveway (I don't know why DH does that).

[HomeAgain]

I found this interesting.  I'd like to see more research, but quite compelling.  I want to make sure the carseats are actually safer for my 4 year old and this sheds doubt.  It seems they are safer for infants, but other buckling systems are better for older kids.   

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_levitt_on_child_carseats?language=en

 

Until race car drivers say their 5pt harnesses are unnecessary and a seat belt is good enough, I'll keep using 5pt harnesses for children who are apt to wiggle, fall asleep falling over, and are too small to fit a shoulder/lap belt combo or are more apt to hit the hard sides of a car during a crash. The fact that he based his TED talk off of a Penn & Teller show is astounding.  Also, since a child goes through great spinal changes between 1 and 3 years of age (gaining more bone, less cartilage), flinging them forward in a crash is really a bad idea.

There used to be great crash tests comparing harnesses to lap/shoulder belts (boosters).  I can't find them anymore, but it was astounding to see. 

 

Also, consider the fact that 8/10 car seats are NOT installed properly and parents don't even know what they're doing wrong.  What we need to do is make a standardized, easy to use seat that parents can't screw up - like a seat belt.  Seat belts automatically retract, harnesses do not.  LATCH has to be tightened.  Seatbelts holding the seat have to be manually retracted. Your kid only gets the protection YOU give them, not what is automatically available.  So the argument he should be making is for proper seat use, and easy to use seats, not faulty data based on the 8/10 misuse rate.

[EmseB]

Until race car drivers say their 5pt harnesses are unnecessary and a seat belt is good enough, I'll keep using 5pt harnesses for children who are apt to wiggle, fall asleep falling over, and are too small to fit a shoulder/lap belt combo or are more apt to hit the hard sides of a car during a crash.

 

 

OT/Tangent, but:

Keep in mind that race car drivers also have a system in their car that keeps their head stabilized during a crash with their harness. With a kiddo in a harness facing forward, there is no give and their whole head flies forward while their body stays put.

 

There really is no data that a 5-point harness is safer than a regular seatbelt properly fitted and used. As you point out, it is definitely better if a kiddo is too small for a seat belt with a HBB booster or if they are not mature enough to stay in place in their seat, but for a NT kid who is big enough to use a seatbelt w/a booster it is not less safe just because it's not what a race car driver is using.

Edited August 10, 2016 by JodiSue

[ktgrok]

I found this interesting.  I'd like to see more research, but quite compelling.  I want to make sure the carseats are actually safer for my 4 year old and this sheds doubt.  It seems they are safer for infants, but other buckling systems are better for older kids.   

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_levitt_on_child_carseats?language=en

 

I'll have to look into this more. My gut reaction though is that race car drivers wear a full harness rather than a seat belt for a reason, it protects them better. 

 

I know that many times mom and dad end up with bruising and soreness after an accident that the kids in the 5 point harnesses just shake off, with no issues at all. 

 

Heck, after the accidents I've been in, where this was the case, i wish I had a 5 point harness!

[dirty ethel rackham]

It's a terrible, terrible idea.

 

That said, driving for hours with a child that won't stop screaming doesn't particularly facilitate driver concentration.

 

And sitting on the side of the road screaming at each other because everyone knows you have to start driving again and everyone knows that the baby will start crying the moment you do and no one knows how to fix the problem isn't much fun either.

 

I can actually feel my heart rate going up just thinking about it again. It's probably not about not wanting the baby unhappy. It's probably about knowing you have to get to the other end of the journey and making a conscious decision about trade offs between safety and sanity. If you haven't had a baby that screams in the car there's no way of knowing how torturous it is.

 

Oh, I do know. BTDT.  Lived that torture.  That is why, after that one trip, we did not go anywhere that required more than 30 minutes of driving until we could turn that carseat around.  Back then, the recommendation was 1 year, but now, it is older than that.  If we had needed to take a longer trip, we would probably have driven overnight with the hopes that the baby would spend at least some of that time sleeping.  But it still would have been torture.  But, there is no way on God's green Earth that I would have driven with her out of the car seat.  I had a serious injury from a relatively minor crash due to not being restrained.  I had removed my seatbelt at a stoplight to get some directions out of my purse which had fallen to the floor of the passenger side.  I forgot to rebuckle.  I nearly lost all the teeth in my mouth.  If the steering wheel had not stopped me, I would have hit the windshield, as did the passenger in the other car involved in the accident.  A baby's body and brain could not have gone through that impact without major injury.  The thing is, you can't predict when a crash will happen.  If you could, you would prevent it. 

 

About whether or not babies can adapt ... babies are hard-wired to be held.  Their brains crave human contact because that is what makes their brains grow.  They learn best through human interaction, not stuff.  While some babies do adapt well to cultural expectations, if it was something they were easily capable of, there would not be volumes of books written about how to try to make babies easier.  Some just don't adapt - and it is evident in their very noisy and bothersome behaviors when placed in situations that are not what they created for.  I was blessed with two like that.

[SKL]

Yeah - I just want to say I feel for anyone in that no-win situation.  I have never had that exact problem, thankfully.  But when I adopted my kids, in the hotel the day before we were to fly home, they both screamed continuously all day long.  Oh my.  At least in my case there was a door I could shut and I wasn't trying to operate a motor vehicle.

[QueenCat]

I do believe we have one of those rare consensuses by everyone here....

[Guest]

I do believe we have one of those rare consensuses by everyone here....

Mark down that nobody believes a kid should be allowed to become a deadly projectile, even if the kiddo really think it's a better idea than the stupid car seat :lol:

Edited August 10, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Samm]

Baby will cry even louder next time if nobody takes him out to hold him.  Parents are the ones that have to be resolute and unequivocal about it.

 

Babies fuss all the time, no reason to dangle his life by a thread just because he's fussy ... http://giveitlove.com/twins-become-adorably-jealous-of-each-other-during-food-time/

 

If people can drive and stop to let the dog out for a stretch, they can do so for babies too.

[Jyhwkmama]

TRIGGER

 

 

You could tell her the story I heard first hand in a mom's group meeting. A paramedic came to speak with us and told us about the first call he ever had. He and his partner were called to the scene of a car crash. The parents had tired of hearing theit child cry and had taken him out of the car seat. The child was thrown from the vehicle and had to be recovered from a tree. I will never forget the paramedic saying, "Sadly, they will never their child cry again."

 

You can also recommend the vacuum cleaner CD from amazon. It is a recording of a vacuum cleaner that you can loop on your CD player. Worked surprisingly well on my high needs first child.

[LMV]

Echoing everyone who is adamant that the only safe place for a child in a moving car is safely restrained in an appropriate car seat.

 

I do see a lot of posters chiming in with how they managed to nurse their baby in the moving car without moving them from the car seat.  I completely get that you all meant well at the time  but if you consider the impact of the gravitational force from the crash then you can see that this really is not safe. Very sadly children have died in accidents this way when crushed by  their mother's chest.[There are also risks to mom (increased risk of head and neck injuries) and if mom unbuckles her own seat belt to accomplish this there is also the potential of her body becoming a projectile putting others in the car at further risk.] I hope no one takes offense at this part of my post, I'm mentioning it because it seems that there are a lot of misconceptions that this is safe and the consequences of this error could be deadly. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by LMV

[bolt.]

I suppose the wrong twist at the wrong moment with the forces of the collision being just terribly unfortunate -- yes there's a risk there. I don't like to compare those kinds of risks (a person could be leaning for any reason, at just the wrong moment; any object near a baby poses a risk in case of a collision) in the same category as the abject foolishness of removing a baby from the safety of their seat.

[StaceyinLA]

All but one of my grandbabies have HATED the car. They have never been taken out of the seat while the car was moving (with the exception of our dead-end gravel road if they were hysterical and we didn't see a need to let them scream until we got to the driveway, but we drive 10 mph on there). With my middle dd's husband in the military, these kids have also spent their fair share of time traveling in the car.

 

The screaming in the car is what prompted me to buy iPad minis for all the grandkids. Mickey Mouse is amazing at calming even a 6 month-old, and frankly, I'd rather them have the screen time than scream (and so would my daughters).

 

We are about to do a Disney trip and dd's youngest still doesn't enjoy long car rides. We plan to stop plenty, have safe car snacks for him, have him where she can sit next to him and safely nurse him in his seat if needed, and have LOTS of Mickey episodes loaded on his iPad for him to watch!

[Mimm]

I just recently took my daughter to visit family for the first time since she was born. She was 2.5 by the time we went down because I knew she couldn't handle the car ride. She's happy in the car generally. We bought a dvd player and new toys that we could get out whenever she was getting grouchy. And we usually make the 12 hour drive in a single day but we broke it up and stayed in a hotel halfway. Because no, it's NOT ok to drive with a baby out of their seat. If the child can't handle it (and the parents can't handle the screaming, which, who can blame them) then put off the trip, break it up over two or three days, do whatever you need to do to travel safely.

[Bluegoat]

No, I am not a huge proponent of being safety crazy, but I wouldn't do this.  I've unbuckled a baby to adjust her in the seat once or twice, but that is as far as I'd go.  I don't think I'd unbuckle myself to nurse in a weird position either, I think that is pretty unsafe for mom and baby too.

 

The main thig I would say is that with a baby in a car, you have to be prepared to take a lot of breaks.

 

About the being held a lot thing - I don't know that I think a baby can be held to much.  However, I have met quite a few moms (and one or two dads) who have been taught that a baby crying any amount of time or being stressed is very dangerous.  I've even met people who consider that even fairly short times of being unhappy are really unacceptable - things like crying for 5 or 10 min in a crib. Even when it isn't stated explicitly in these circles, the problems that will come out of the stress for baby are often used as reasons to avoid all kinds of things, so the message it gives is that it is a Very Bad Thing.  It sounds like the friend might be under the influence of that kind of thinking. 

 

I think this can probably impact situations like this in three ways.  One being that the weight the parent put on stopping the crying will be much greater, because they think it I so serious.  The second being that they will be very uncomfortable with hearing the crying. 

 

The third though is that it might be that a baby who gets told "no" to being held in more situations might be able to be more comfortable out of arms.  This is not a sure thing and age is a real factor, but I think that getting used to things does make a difference for babies, and it can at first cause crying if the baby doesn't like it. I generally think it is worthwhile to let baby try and learn to sit alone when mom has a pee, or even a shower, or to allow some crying with sleep training at a certain age if the parents are really having sleep deficits, or to allow baby to cry while with a caregiver he does not prefer. Maybe he will just cry, but that short amount of time will not be a big deal, and the baby might learn to get used to it. 

 

Others really disagree, but that seems like it limit their options in a case like this - if even a little crying is a problem, then stopping may be the only option, even to the point of not taking the trip at all.

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bluegoat

[JumpyTheFrog]

However, I have met quite a few moms (and one or two dads) who have been taught that a baby crying any amount of time or being stressed is very dangerous.  I've even met people who consider that even fairly short times of being unhappy are really unacceptable - things like crying for 5 or 10 min in a crib. Even when it isn't stated explicitly in these circles, the problems that will come out of the stress for baby are often used as reasons to avoid all kinds of things, so the message it gives is that it is a Very Bad Thing.  It sounds like the friend might be under the influence of that kind of thinking. 

 

Yes, I think she might be. Were were talking today and she asked me if she should avoid using the word "no" with her baby and just say stuff like "We don't do that". Another mom (who has twins) and I tried to emphasizing that saying no is fine (not being mean about it), especially once babies are crawling and walking. The other mom pointed out that most kids are about two before they have the vocabulary to understand things like "Stop, that isn't safe," rather than just hearing the word "no". I tried to assure the mom that when the baby gets teeth and bites her when breastfeeding, it is totally normal to be startled and yell out "ouch" or "no" and that it won't scar her baby for life.

 

I think the overall theme with my friend is that she seems very concerned that everything will damage her child emotionally. I am trying to reassure her that babies are more resilient than she thinks. I am also trying to steer her toward the important things like getting the baby gate installed near the stairs since her baby will be crawling soon.

[Guest]

She needs to figure out that he best place for baby advice is other moms with more kids, not a parenting board filled with only first time parents like many birth clubs are. I rarely if ever see such nonsense, to where one would think crying or 'no!' Is more harmful than stairs or unbuckling a car seat in a moving vehicle, in places where parents have more experience and have gained some wisdom in the actual practice of raising kids.

 

That's probably why we all agree on here - been there, done that, tee shirts for all. She needs less parenting 'advice' and more common sense. But unfortunately it's difficult to impart that to someone unwilling to listen.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I talked to the mom today and somehow manage to luck out and make the conversation seem fairly casual (I think). She said she wouldn't take the baby out of the car seat again. She seemed to agree that it isn't a good habit to get into. I mentioned the story someone else mentioned in the thread about the paramedic whose first call was to the accident where the baby flew out the windshield. I think that may have made an impression. I also suggested the vacuum CDs if the vacuum has a soothing effect on her daughter.

 

Their next trip is only four hours away, so they can easily do it all during the night. 

 

I am so relieved that I managed to have the conversation and have her not seem defensive or angry about it. Thanks for all the suggestions about how to phrase things, everyone. They were much more helpful than the real life response someone gave me of "Well, they own the baby. If they want to do something dumb with her and she dies, it's not your problem." (The verse in Proverbs of there being wisdom in having many counselors comes to mind.)

[JumpyTheFrog]

She needs to figure out that he best place for baby advice is other moms with more kids, not a parenting board filled with only first time parents like many birth clubs are. 

 

Ah, I wonder if she is part of one of those. I'm pretty sure she told me she doesn't really read parenting books other than the "What to Expect" series. I read those too, I don't remember anything in them that would lead to such fear, but it's been a long time since I read them.

[Guest]

I wouldn't be surprised, that's very common and has been even from when I had my first. Most of us with more than one kid drop off after two or three birth clubs because it's filled with too many obsessive, judgy, everything-must-be-perfect-and-then-I-will-have-flawless-children kinds of women. It can be very cliquey. Some groups are nicer than others but overall they're tiresome.

 

Especially women who don't have a ton of real world connection with other moms in their family or through something like church, the birth club kind of ends up being he substitute village, except it's filled with n00bs :lol:

 

/had three birth clubs before finally ditching the whole concept in disgust

Edited August 11, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[JumpyTheFrog]

Yes, they are new to the area (been here about a year) and I suspect she is the first of her friends to have a baby.

[Spring Flower]

Ear plugs. 

 

All of my babies were so colicky no matter what I did that I just had to get used to screaming. I wished I had learned the ear plug trick before my 3rd kid. 

[ktgrok]

Agreed. I never let my babies cry if I don't have to. I pick them up immediately if I can, wear them a lot, nurse them to sleep, etc. But....I also know that if I'm doing that 90 percent of the time, the few minutes they cry while I am taking a shower, or stirring dinner on the stove, or changing the other kid's diaper, they will be just fine. It's about balance. I think sometimes that balance message gets lost, especially with the first kid. With the second you realize baby is going to cry sometimes, while you deal with kid number 2. 

[HRAAB]

I have had children who cried (screamed bloody murder more like it) during car rides; I know what it's like.  The only thing to do is pull over and tend to the child.  In fact, it was safer for me to pull over instead of listening to my child cry because I wouldn't be focusing on my driving like I should.  No way would I take my child out of her car seat in a moving car.

[Bluegoat]

I wouldn't be surprised, that's very common and has been even from when I had my first. Most of us with more than one kid drop off after two or three birth clubs because it's filled with too many obsessive, judgy, everything-must-be-perfect-and-then-I-will-have-flawless-children kinds of women. It can be very cliquey. Some groups are nicer than others but overall they're tiresome.

 

Especially women who don't have a ton of real world connection with other moms in their family or through something like church, the birth club kind of ends up being he substitute village, except it's filled with n00bs :lol:

 

/had three birth clubs before finally ditching the whole concept in disgust

 

I'm part of an online group that is a bit like that, about  99% are moms of one younger child, sometimes a preschooler/infant combo.  There is a really noticeable tendency for them to be very worried about things that more experienced moms would probably be far more blasé about - like worrying about letting their daughters have pink toys.