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If you could live in San Francisco or NYC...


Aspasia
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...which one would you choose?

 

My husband is still in process with the NYC bank opportunity I mentioned a few months ago. But now a head hunter has contacted him about a job at a bank in San Francisco. This is a hard decision for us! I mean, he doesn't have an actual offer or salary figure from either bank (though NYC bank is flying him up for a 7th and final interview right after Christmas and the head hunter for SF seems sure he could get a very good amount in SF, and says NYC won't be able to match it—who knows? He sort of has an ulterior motive.)

 

The cost of living seems comparable. 

 

Pros of SF:

-weather is always perfect

-access to outdoor activities

-closer to our families, in Utah

-closer to Hawaii

-we can get more living space for the same price

 

 

Pros of NYC:

-It's NYC! It's the capital of the world!

-more diversity

-access to more museums and theater opportunities

-the adventure of city living (SF just isn't the same)

-closer to Europe

-I've always wanted to live there

 

What do you guys think? 

 

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Depending on how much money your dh will be making, it is somewhat doubtful that you will be living right in the middle of NYC. You are more likely to live in a suburb and your dh will commute in and out of the city for work every day -- which can add up to a long and stressful day for him.

 

I have never lived in SF, but as someone who has lived in NYC, I have to say that it may not be as glamorous as you anticipate unless your dh will be paid a very, very high salary.

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If it were me, probably I would pick NYC, because I like being on the east coast, my sister lives there, and personally, I like deciduous seasons. I want snow now and then; I like to wear boots and sweaters.

 

But if I had family in Utah, that would probably sway me to SF. Plus, yeah - HI is closer.

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NYC. No questions asked. SF is nice, but not NYC.

 

I had a job for a while that I was home for 3 weeks, and in SF for about 3 weeks. SF was nice, but I got the worlds worse cab driver that told me that where I was staying was a former landfill and if there was an earthquake, it would go into the sea. 😳😳 Snow storms are not as scary. Not to mention it is NY! If you can't find it there, you can't find it anywhere!

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I've lived in both.  If you'll be in the city proper, I'd vote NYC hands down.  I still miss New York!  But if you'll be in the 'burbs, San Francisco.  We're leaving the Bay Area at the end of the month, and we're really going to miss it.  But as far as cities go? NYC will always have my heart.

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No advice but I'm glad you posted - I was wondering what you had decided to do based on your lasts posts about NYC.  :lol:

 

Yeah, that process has taken forever! His former boss contacted him about it months before it was actually posted, and thus jump started my anxiety. :)  And then they finally posted it last month, so...he's been interviewing and all that jazz. He was supposed to fly up this Monday for the final interview, but he decided to postpone in order to buy some time to explore the San Francisco thing, which is already posted and actively seeking candidates. 

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I've lived in both.  If you'll be in the city proper, I'd vote NYC hands down.  I still miss New York!  But if you'll be in the 'burbs, San Francisco.  We're leaving the Bay Area at the end of the month, and we're really going to miss it.  But as far as cities go? NYC will always have my heart.

 

If we do NYC, we'd do either Brooklyn (Park Slope) or the UWS or UES. We don't want any long commutes. We already have that here (in DC) and it has ruined our lives. Even if we stay here, we're going to move closer to DC, but dh is kind of looking forward to getting out of government work. He used to be excited about it, but he's just kind of tired of the constant crises, all-night emailing, urgent papers for high-level officials, etc. He doesn't get home until after 8:00 every night. And this is just our norm. We're used to it. All his friends who have left for the private sector rave about their new lives: they're eating dinner with their families every night, working from home a couple days a week, coaching their kids' soccer teams, etc. Oh, and making tons more money.

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I'd stay in NYC, because I don't really want to have to move :)

 

But if my whole family up and moved to the West Coast, and I had the opportunity to move closer to them with the same cost of living and income and all, I probably would do that. I like being near family. So, with your family being in Utah, that is a definite push in that direction as far as I'm concerned.

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San Francisco is one of the few place that makes family living in NYC look affordable. You can find good options closer, at w better price, than SF and the surrounding area. The commutes to find affordable housing in SF can be two or three hours, and most of my Jersey and NY friends can get into and out of the city in under 90 minutes, especially with public transportation.

 

Also, California absolutely stinks. Even with commutes or subway I'd still recommend NYC first.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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San Francisco is one of the few place that makes family living in NYC look affordable. You can find good options closer, at w better price, than SF and the surrounding area. Also, California absolutely stinks. Even with commutes or subway I'd still recommend NYC first.

Everyone keeps saying this, but the same rent that gets us a tiny little 3-bedroom in Park Slope (and an even tinier 3-bedroom in the UWS or UES) can get us a nice updated house with a yard in Berkeley or Walnut Creek. Then we compared buying. $1 million can get a very nice 3- or 4-bedroom, updated home with a yard within a 40-minute commute of San Francisco. In Park Slope, you can't buy ANYTHING for less than $2.5 million, and nothing in good shape for less than $3 million. 

 

Everyone says SF is more expensive, but I'm just not seeing it.

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I think SF is lovely. I love visting. I live near NYC. I am from, and love DC. I would chose SF over NYC anyday. Living in NY, especially homeschooling, drives me nuts. No one is happy here. Everyone is grumpy. NYC is fun to visit, but if I had to choose a city that wasn't DC, SF would be in the top 5.

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I vote for SF, since that's where my husband is working and we're pretty happy here. :-)  Living in (some parts of) the East Bay isn't that expensive -- what's really pricey is being in the city or closer to the tech jobs in the South Bay / Peninsula.  I'd recommend looking at El Cerrito and the adjoining areas, where you can buy a 3 BR house in walking distance of BART for well less than $1 million.  Or try Alameda, if a commute by ferry sounds good.  

 

I saw that you had a thread earlier about putting your kids in public school because it worked well for your family for you to have a break from your big kids.  Areas with better public schools are going to be more expensive, of course.  The charter school options in CA might work well for you if you want to try homeschooling again with 1 day per week off.  Some offer enrichment classes, while others give you stipend money that can be used toward classes with outside vendors.  The one we're with doesn't offer quite enough to cover full-day weekly classes for a whole year, but it comes close.

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I grew up in NJ, 20 miles outside the city.  For three years we lived in Long Island while husband did a residency at LIJ.  We currently live 45 miles outside SF, but locals call it "just outside SF".  

 

I would pick NYC in a heartbeat.  

 

We were so disappointed in SF.  It is FILTHY!  There is so much more to do in and around NYC than in SF.  So muchy more history and culture to pick from in NY.  Communting into and out of NYC is so much easier and so much better set up than SF.  Plus you have the whole east coast of things to do.  Here, everything is an hour plus away.  Well that is what it is supposed to be.  There is always that extra hour of traffic to add to anywhere you want to go.  I will take the NYC bridge and tunnel traffic any day over the SF area traffic.  

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No earthquakes, either.

 

Very few earthquakes, anyway, and they're not strong. We had one a few years ago. After the ground rumbled for quite a while I thought "Wow, that train's taking a long time to pass!" and then had the sudden, disconcerting realization that a. we were half a mile from the nearest train station and b. it's above ground.

 

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San Francisco. Unless you are tightly wound and like it that way, you will find the West Coast more relaxing...more bucolic.

 

Honestly, are you an East Coast Family and cannot imagine living "out" West? Would you like to trade in humid summers and brutal winters for a temperate climate? Do you like a rugged coastline? Could you live without seeing as many trees turn fall colors? There are just so many factors not to mention the work environment for your dh.

Edited by Liz CA
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That's hard. In banking, NYC is definitely going to be the epicenter, but the QOL is going to be better in SF. Personally, I would take QOL. I much prefer So Cal to SF, but, having read your previous post about relocating from DC, I think you will be happier on the west coast. Good luck with the decision!

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I live just outside SF. Would his job depend at all on the financial markets? People here who need to be on top of the markets are often at work by 4:30-5:00 am, although they're done early too, which can be handy.

 

I'm just trying to come up with any considerations not mentioned yet.

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Everyone keeps saying this, but the same rent that gets us a tiny little 3-bedroom in Park Slope (and an even tinier 3-bedroom in the UWS or UES) can get us a nice updated house with a yard in Berkeley or Walnut Creek. Then we compared buying. $1 million can get a very nice 3- or 4-bedroom, updated home with a yard within a 40-minute commute of San Francisco. In Park Slope, you can't buy ANYTHING for less than $2.5 million, and nothing in good shape for less than $3 million.

 

Everyone says SF is more expensive, but I'm just not seeing it.

It's NEVER a 40 min commute to the city (says someone who has lived in both Berkely and Walnut Creek), unless your DH will work within walking distance of BART. Not that NYC traffic is a whole lot better, but you do have more transit options into and within the city.

 

The East Bay really is fantastic, esp if you plan to hike and be out and about. I'm sick about leaving behind weather that lets us be outside basically 360 days a year. And, again, if you are going to end up in a bedroom community, I would definitely lean towards SF. However, getting into and around SF is a real pain if you live out. It's much more of a driving city than NYC, so traffic and parking are always an issue.

 

Living in Park Slope or the UE/WS is absolutely not comparable to Berkely or WC. You are comparing apples to oranges in terms of locations. Look at houses outside the five boroughs for more comparable lifestyles.

 

Again, if you are able to afford living in NYC and will take advantage of the urban living, than I would say 100% go with NY. However, if you would rather look at something more suburban and deal with the commute, than San Francisco is probably your better option.

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I thought you were moving to Park Slope, Brooklyn?

 

Or do I have you confused with someone else?

That was me. We're just fielding different opportunities and trying to decide which one we would prefer. :)

 

I vote for SF, since that's where my husband is working and we're pretty happy here. :-)  Living in (some parts of) the East Bay isn't that expensive -- what's really pricey is being in the city or closer to the tech jobs in the South Bay / Peninsula.  I'd recommend looking at El Cerrito and the adjoining areas, where you can buy a 3 BR house in walking distance of BART for well less than $1 million.  Or try Alameda, if a commute by ferry sounds good.  

 

I saw that you had a thread earlier about putting your kids in public school because it worked well for your family for you to have a break from your big kids.  Areas with better public schools are going to be more expensive, of course.  The charter school options in CA might work well for you if you want to try homeschooling again with 1 day per week off.  Some offer enrichment classes, while others give you stipend money that can be used toward classes with outside vendors.  The one we're with doesn't offer quite enough to cover full-day weekly classes for a whole year, but it comes close.

We're probably going to be homeschooling again. Long story, but I'm not getting the break I thought I would get, and we all really miss homeschooling! So we're going to restructure some things so that I get some more breaks in other areas.

 

San Francisco. Unless you are tightly wound and like it that way, you will find the West Coast more relaxing...more bucolic.

 

Honestly, are you an East Coast Family and cannot imagine living "out" West? Would you like to trade in humid summers and brutal winters for a temperate climate? Do you like a rugged coastline? Could you live without seeing as many trees turn fall colors? There are just so many factors not to mention the work environment for your dh.

Well, I guess we have sort of built our family on the East Coast (we've been here for six years), but dh and I are from Salt Lake City. So we're definitely westerners. I would definitely prefer a more temperate climate (with a yearly, week-long winter trip to a rented cabin in the mountains). The weather and proximity to the coast is the big draw for me. I mean, we're obviously close here, too, but not like in SF.

 

I live just outside SF. Would his job depend at all on the financial markets? People here who need to be on top of the markets are often at work by 4:30-5:00 am, although they're done early too, which can be handy.

 

I'm just trying to come up with any considerations not mentioned yet.

No, he would be in compliance.

Edited by Bucolic
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Living in Park Slope or the UE/WS is absolutely not comparable to Berkely or WC. You are comparing apples to oranges in terms of locations. Look at houses outside the five boroughs for more comparable lifestyles.

 

 

I know the lifestyles are totally different, but I'm thinking in terms of commute times.  The commute from Park Slope to Midtown looks to be about 40 minutes. Same with Berkeley to the Financial District in SF (which is my first choice city in the Bay Area--my dad lived there for a few years, so I spent a lot of time there and I love it.) So for the same commute time, our money seems to go a lot farther in the Bay Area.

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I grew up South of SF, but I'd pick NYC.  I really love NYC;  to me, it's so much easier to navigate than SF.  And it feels more condensed, with little neighborhoods, etc., whereas SF feels more sprawling.  Plus I think the cost of living would be less in NYC.  I wouldn't need to hesitate for even one second:  NYC.

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SF. First, it's closer to family, and your kids would get to grow up seeing their relatives more. That means a lot. 

 

Second, um, weather. And third and fourth, lol. 

 

Plus it seems prettier, from the photos my girlfriend posted when she lived there. NY just seems so industrial. 

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I have been in both but know NYC better since I live on the East Coast. So, I would pick NYC. There is so much to do and I know more people there. I do like the weather, lack on winter, in San Fran and for you, it is closer to family. Not so sure about the difference in cost of living. You could always live slightly outside actual NYC (or SF?) and commute in easily.

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That's funny. I'd say New York. Because... California. ;)

I need to be rich enough to never ever have to ride the subway in NYC (or DC, for that matter) before moving there again, but I also cannot abide the tech nonsense and attendant existential crisis now playing out in those parts of California. Plus, earthquakes.
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Wow, for me, this decision could be grounds for divorce.  Chances are I'd tell him to take the SF job (if offered) and I'd live in HI and visit SF a time or two when I was in the mood.   :coolgleamA: We'd never actually be in that position since my hubby feels the same way about cities as I do.   :hurray:

 

We have quite the diversity on the Hive.  It's part of why I stay long after homeschooling is finished TBH.  

 

Best wishes with your decision!

 

 

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Something that hasn't been mentioned here is that NYC has a 1%+ income tax. That is on top of the NYS income tax and Federal.... I don't know if SF has that but if it doesn't SF would be potentially more lucrative for your family. 

 

DH was recently up for a job that sounded GREAT on paper in NYC. I was really hoping he would get it. Then we sat down and figured out the commute cost every year, minus the cost of taxes in NYC vs what he was making, then we figure out how much he would have to make just to be making what he was at the time, and realized that he would never be offered that much.  So then he got a job elsewhere and now he really has a low cost for commuting, and taxes. :giggle: 

 

My point is if you are looking to move to the UWS or UES I am assuming you are talking about big bucks. We couldn't afford to live there even in a studio (studio with 2 kids and a dog, yeah that would be fun!). So when you get into those higher tax brackets 1% here or there can make a HUGE difference. 

 

I suggest you figure out basic costs on paper and make your decision based on that. I would also factor in cost for visiting family into the equation. I assume you would do that. Hawaii (which didn't impress me but to each their own) and Europe is more manageable if you have lots of disposable income regardless of where you live.

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Something that hasn't been mentioned here is that NYC has a 1%+ income tax. That is on top of the NYS income tax and Federal.... I don't know if SF has that but if it doesn't SF would be potentially more lucrative for your family. 

 

DH was recently up for a job that sounded GREAT on paper in NYC. I was really hoping he would get it. Then we sat down and figured out the commute cost every year, minus the cost of taxes in NYC vs what he was making, then we figure out how much he would have to make just to be making what he was at the time, and realized that he would never be offered that much.  So then he got a job elsewhere and now he really has a low cost for commuting, and taxes. :giggle: 

 

My point is if you are looking to move to the UWS or UES I am assuming you are talking about big bucks. We couldn't afford to live there even in a studio (studio with 2 kids and a dog, yeah that would be fun!). So when you get into those higher tax brackets 1% here or there can make a HUGE difference. 

 

I suggest you figure out basic costs on paper and make your decision based on that. I would also factor in cost for visiting family into the equation. I assume you would do that. Hawaii (which didn't impress me but to each their own) and Europe is more manageable if you have lots of disposable income regardless of where you live.

 

I thought the NYC city tax was 3.5%. And SF also has a 1.5% city tax. But NY's state taxes are higher than CA's, so it all kind of balances out...to a whole lot of extra taxes.

 

And yeah, we wouldn't go if he didn't get big bucks. We aren't interested in taking a cut in our standard of living. :)

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What may be a deal breaker or maker for any of us may be inconsequential to you, so I think you need to describe what you are looking for a bit more (and not looking for) in more detail.

 

For me, though, when I've visited San Francisco proper, the city has always struck me as kid-unfriendly, in a way that's hard to put a finger on.  I've never gotten this vibe from NYC.

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I've never been to NYC, but I've been to SF numerous times. Are you thinking about the actual city itself? The cost of living is through the roof. I lived in the East Bay (Concord) for a couple of years and, while the COL is high there, too, it's a little more reasonable and the area is more livable. Also, the SF culture may not appeal to some (trying to be diplomatic here), so, depending on your lifestyle, beliefs. Etc. you may want to investigate all that before making the move to the City itself.

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