Well, that was unplanned Updated #143

[LucyStoner]

I am concerned that a young person who suffers from depression would possibly be more likely to question and regret the decision later, especially if made under a sense of pressure. In my experience, anxiety and depression incline a person to self condemnation and feelings of shame and guilt.

 

Abortion is not a choice I could personally embrace or encourage, but for this young woman I am merely hoping she can feel confident and at peace about whatever choice she makes.

Thing is parenting from depression is also a recipe for anxiety, shame, guilt etc. And then it involves the child(ren) who may or may not have their needs fully met depending on their mom's health.

 

In somewhat similar shoes, I made a totally different decision than I assumed or thought I would. I am just glad that it was something where I got to decide with support and love. This young lady is lucky to have a parent like the OP.

[Mergath]

There has been a lot of good advice.

 

I do think that things need to be thought of in as simple terms as possible.... So first is the consideration of what to do with the baby - without worrying about the father, or the education/scholarship.

 

So - trying to just think in those terms - there are really 3 basic options - with some variations in them.

 

In no particular order

1. termination - which could (as she suffers from depression) cause some emotional issues for some while.

2. adoption - a viable choice. (and there are variations. open, closed, within the family, etc.)

3. keeping the baby (assuming her raising it on her own - she needs to be prepared for it to be on her own if she makes the decision to keep - the father/other help is kind of a side-option as in any situation you can't count on it. (ie, even if the father was saying immediately that he would be involved and had a job etc - it isn't unusual for that to change as the pregnancy progresses or the baby is actually born.)

4. keeping the baby with definite extra help from you (ie, the suggestions above of you caring for the baby while she goes to school) - this of course is only an option if you offer it....

 

 

After that is decided - then there is the education/scholarship to look at - which might be affected based on the baby decision. Some options/considerations:

if baby was terminated - is she ready to go to another city and start college - or is she going to need extra support??

if baby is going to be kept/adopted - when is it likely to be due? is going to college a possibility?

medical deferrment possible (if baby being kept/adopted) etc

change to a local college?

etc

But I think the baby question really needs to be settled FIRST without the main worry being the education/scholarship. Figure that part out after.

 

No rush - in my opinion - to decide about the father.... a lot of that is going to be determined by him. I wouldn't recommend a rush into marriage or anything like that.... and a lot of these fathers disappear when baby arrives. (I know a lot don't disappear too - but honestly it can be hard to tell which it is going to be until the baby has been around for a while.)

 

(btw - my step-daughter had a child at age 17 - and I was her step-mom at the time. there wasn't a scholarship to be factored in - but there was everything else. So my advice is with experience. I hope I've expressed myself well.)

Adoption can cause a lot of emotional issues, too. A lot of people have posted that she should consider adoption because abortion could cause emotional distress, but there's no guarantee of or against psychological distress in either scenario.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

 Everyone I know who has terminated has had lifelong regrets.

 

 

 

The few women I know who have said they made a decision to terminate still think it was the right thing to do years later. It really depends on the person.

 

I could see her having regrets. I have two other daughters who come down on the logical side of the Meyers Briggs that might be able to separate thing out but I worry very much about this girl.

 

 And in your dd's case it does seem like she'll have regrets. It's such a difficult choice and not one easily made.

 

I had the child. Didn't marry the father :) My life was also tough. She thought I'd be angry. I told her, "sweetheart, I'm just sad that you went and made your life so much harder than it has to be." It's going to suck no matter what she does.

 

 

 

And this is one of the things that makes you such a wonderful supportive mother.  :grouphug: Hugs to both you and your dd as you help her through this time.  :grouphug:

[Chrysalis Academy]

I know 6 women that I know have had abortions.

1 is still thrilled that she did it and that she doesn't have anything more to do with the (worthless) father

1 regards it as a tragic necessity that she is not really responsible for (she was date raped at 15 or 16.  Her mother took her for the abortion.)

1 utterly believes it was the right thing to do, but felt pretty weird about it when she had an ultrasound of her (wanted) daughter at about the same gestational point as her abortion

1 is totally relieved AFAIK (she was in 8th grade when she went to a party and was courted and seduced by a much older man and got pregnant)

1 hates that she did it and actually eventually went to work as a volunteer to tell her story to those who are considering abortion

1 feels horribly guilty to this day, years later, and it contributes to depression for her

 

There is nothing I know of that is more varied than people's eventual reactions to having had abortions. 

 

Absolutely.  Which is why I cringe when people make pronouncements about what someone will feel if they go through with the choice.  You can't even know for sure what you would feel under the circumstances. You can't know what someone else will feel.

[FO4UR]

Adoption can cause a lot of emotional issues, too. A lot of people have posted that she should consider adoption because abortion could cause emotional distress, but there's no guarantee of or against psychological distress in either scenario.

 

 

A lot of people are posting a lot of things...

 

She needs all of her options and all possible scenarios laid out in front of her so she can choose freely and truly.  Every possible choice will be full of emotional distress. Period. I think that is the only thing that can be certain. That and Peter Pan cannot be depended upon.

 

It's for the OP's dd to decide what sort of distress to live with.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  OP.  I wish you and your daughter the very best in this difficult situation.  Thank goodness she has a caring mother.  I keep reading this thread, thinking of you both and wishing for better days for all of you.

[MedicMom]

everything else aside, there really is only one question that matters. Does she want to continue this pregnancy?

 

If she does, college and career can still happen. It will be hard.

 

If she does not, terminate the pregnancy as soon as possible. It will be hard.

 

(Other random points:

Everyone I have ever met who has given a baby up for adoption has been scarred by the experience, no matter how open it is.

 

I was an emotionally fragile and depressed 17/18/19 year old. I am not at 33. She will not always be 18; she may be a completely different person a few years down the road.

 

A 25-year-old Aspie may have no clue about getting or holding a job. Emotional immaturity due to not being NT is different than someone who is lazy or abusive.

 

I made four different appointments at PP this pregnancy. I realized that deep down in my heart I wanted this baby. I have every reason in the world to terminate, but I had to follow my heart on this one, even though I am a logical INTJ who distrusts emotions. She needs to do what she wants in regards to this pregnancy. Any road will be hard one now. Loving counsel and support is crucial.)

[maize]

Thing is parenting from depression is also a recipe for anxiety, shame, guilt etc. And then it involves the child(ren) who may or may not have their needs fully met depending on their mom's health.

 

In somewhat similar shoes, I made a totally different decision than I assumed or thought I would. I am just glad that it was something where I got to decide with support and love. This young lady is lucky to have a parent like the OP.

 

I agree.

 

I am thinking that her best chance to make a decision she can live with (more or less comfortably) is to feel that she has options and to carefully consider those options before choosing among them.

[livetoread]

Yes, I would echo the others who pointed out that any option, abortion, adoption, keeping the baby, can cause emotional distress, especially for someone prone to depression.

 

I think the key is for her to be able to make her choice based on what she wants deep down and not based on societal pressures or a teenager's often limited view of options.

[Pen]

I've not read all the replies, but wanted to add in that I had a college classmate who had had a son who was being raised by the grandparents at least until the daughter could graduate and get job stable.  I don't know what ultimately happened with that decision. I think the child had technically been adopted by the older generation and the bio mom was in the role of big sister, which more fit her emotional maturity level. I also had college classmates who went the PP route and did not regret it, as well as ones who did. It can all go in any of many ways. A child who tends toward depression is more likely to take any option chosen harder than one who is more carefree.

 

ETA The situation for a possible future child needs to be considered along with your daughter's.  Were the circumstances of the beginnings likely to create health longterm or sadness?  It may be better for your dd to get her education and so on as planned without a child and when she is at a point to do it, with this man or some other, then have a child. Do you think she would make a good parent at this point in her life?  Would both of the two together be able to parent if they had an income?  Or is the lack of job and income only one of many factors in which they are not really there yet?

[Truscifi]

Plenty of advice is being thrown about already, so I will just give hugs.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

 

[TeenagerMom]

No advice, but I just want to say that you are the type of Mom that I strive to be with my teenagers. You are showing the most amazing compassion and support in an extremely difficult situation.

[purplejackmama]

No advice, just Internet hugs.

[Pen]

I'm also thinking if the young man and dd have a future together he needs to be part of whatever is happening... part of her support in visits about this to PP, if any, with her and helping if she has the baby, or if not.  It may be her decision, but if he is not there supporting her, it is unlikely this will last long term in any good way.

 

In most places, she can decide to have or not to have a baby--but if she does have, then the father will have legal responsibilities... and also, he will have legal rights.

 

I also know someone who decided to have a child and raise him as a single parent (this was a woman already out of schooling and with a career) and is now in a legal custody battle with the bio-father.  Although the father may or may not be a Peter Pan or whatever (I only have ever heard the mother's side of the story),  it appears that the court may go toward a joint custody arrangement forever tying the 3 people together, and leaving the mother worried about the man's ability to care for the boy during his times.  Even my thought about grandparental adoption such as the classmate I had had did, may be subject to the father's legal claims on the baby.

[MamaSheep]

First of all, hugs for you Barb! You're a good mom.  :grouphug:

 

You've received a lot of good advice here. I'm glad you're so willing to be supportive of your daughter's decision, and recognize that it is her decision to make. As an "emotionally sensitive" person who has dealt with depression, I definitely sympathize with the emotional impact of having to make a difficult decision, no matter what choice she makes. I hope she can come to a decision that will bring her peace. 

 

In your original post, you said that you felt the PP appt. was made because your dd felt she had no other options under the circumstances. Maybe part of your role here could be information gathering about the options that she does have, so that she can have a clear understanding of what those options would actually look like in real life. So for example, you could make some calls and find out FOR SURE about the possibility of a medical deferment on the scholarship--get a definite yes or no answer from someone who has the power to make that decision, so she's not just operating on an unsupported assumption, for example. You could also find out actual information about day care programs at the college she plans to attend, and family living accommodations on campus (for her and the baby, with or without the boyfriend). Help her clearly understand what her options are in a concrete, real-life manner, so they're not just some nebulous, scary unknown to hold up next to her PP option, which is already a real-life thing for her. As you implied, it's often easier to feel at peace with a decision if you feel confident that you knew what the options really were, and you made the best decision that you could at the time. 

 

I know you said you didn't think she would be willing to consider adoption, but I hope you'll forgive me for suggesting that because this is one of her options, she should also have a clear, concrete, real-life picture of what that would be like. Adoption really has come a long way over the past few decades, and these days most adoptions are as open as the birth mom wants them to be. I have several friends with adopted children who consider their children's birth mom to be part of their extended family, and they regularly send letters and photos, call each other on the phone, include the birth mama in all of the child's important events, and often get together on holidays. One friend just posted a picture on Facebook of him and his wife, their four-year old daughter, and the daughter's college-age birth mom attending Cinderella together. It was a really sweet picture with a lot of love in it. My cousin's family's birth mama recently wrote an article about her positive adoption experience in a major women's magazine, and I know my cousin and his wife consider her a part of their family too. A child placed for adoption in a scenario like this isn't lost in quite the same way that a child who disappears into an anonymous system forever is lost. Is it still hard? Oh yes. Absolutely. But in this scenario, every possible choice is going to be hard in its own way. 

 

It would probably be fair to tell a little about my own situation so you know where I'm coming from with this. I am definitely not unbiased. I am a huge fan of adoption. My oldest brother is adopted, and for a while I thought we might adopt one or more children ourselves. I found out when I was twelve that it would be difficult for me to conceive, and the two children we have are the biggest miracles I can imagine. We always wanted a bigger family, but put off trying to adopt until our son was older because he was a challenging child (he has Asperger's--and I agree btw, with the previous poster who said that not having a job due to issues relating to ASD is not the same as being lazy, though I would add that this doesn't necessarily mean he would be good husband material ). When we felt he was mature enough, we decided to look at possibilities for expanding our family. An infant adoption agency told us we were welcome to pay the big bucks and sign up, but that at that point we were already older than most birth moms are looking for and would probably not be selected. A foreign adoption was extremely expensive, and would require more extended travel than would be good for our family (especially ds). We ended up getting licensed as foster/adoptive parents with the hopes of adopting older children, or hopefully a sibling group. What we discovered is that although nobody will say so (because it would be discriminatory) there is a strong bias in the foster system against placing children in a home where a special needs child is already present. We were presented as an option to the adoption committee several times (they are legally required to have 3 to choose from), but were always told that another family had "more time and resources to devote to the child". Always. It was heartbreaking. Finally, we decided it would be best for our family to get off that emotional roller-coaster and just accept that there will be no more children. About a year later, I became unexpectedly pregnant. (After 10 years of nothing.) I can't even tell you what that felt like--it was a profoundly surreal joy! But then I lost the baby. A few months later, I became pregnant again, and again lost the baby. And before the end of the year, it happened again, only this time time the miscarriage required medical "assistance" to complete. During that last pregnancy I had a stroke (the day after Christmas 2012), partly as a result of the pregnancy hormones interacting with two rare blood disorders that I've apparently been walking around with all this time. Now that we know about the blood disorders, the doctors have told us it would be an extremely bad idea to try to have more children because it could very possibly kill me and leave the two we have without a mother. So that's it. We're done. We're out of options. And it's been a hard thing to wrap my heart around. Don't get me wrong, if someone came to me and said they'd like to place their baby with our family in a private adoption, I can't imagine saying no, but emotionally I am too beat up to go looking.

So yeah, I'm a proponent of adoption, and I hope that one of the options you will help your dd look at seriously is the option of finding another woman out there, somewhere, who is also in a difficult place, whose arms will otherwise be forever empty, and creating a miracle for that other woman. I hope that if she's not prepared to be a mother herself, your dd might at least consider sharing her child with a mother who has been ready for an achingly long, empty time. I can imagine it must be very difficult for a pregnant teen who just wants to get on with her life to put herself in the shoes of someone like me, and be willing to make the kind of sacrifice that goes into an adoption. I know it's breathtakingly difficult for women in my position to hear about the intentional termination of a healthy pregnancy, even if it is unplanned, and emotionally painful, and terribly inconvenient (I should probably not have clicked this link, but I didn't realize what the topic was until I was already in). And I think it's important for women in both positions to be able to find compassion for each other and not judge.  

 

Anyway, I hope you won't just blow off adoption as a possibility without giving it at least a little true consideration. There are so many aching hearts waiting for a woman like your daughter to have the compassion and maturity to reach out to them. I can't tell you how much I wish someone had been willing to do that for me (and my daughter so wanted to be a big sister).

But I truly do wish you and your daughter the best, no matter the outcome of her decision. I hope both of you will have peace with whatever she decides.  And I mostly just wanted to say that I always find that more information makes for better decisions, so maybe the best thing you can do as the mother (or grandmother) in this scenario would be to help your daughter find good, solid, real-life information about all of the actual options in her particular case (like medical deferment, etc.), so that she can feel good about having made a decision based on all the facts available and won't later run into an "if only I'd known" situation. 

[EKS]

 

I think that if she goes through with the usual course of action at PP, she will have lifelong regrets. 

 

I totally disagree.

[TeenagerMom]

I will add, while adoption is always an option, she needs to make SURE the bio Dad is on board with that plan, otherwise it could turn into a VERY messy situation if BioDad & his parents choose to fight for his child. He has as much right to his child as she does once the baby is born. If he were to fight & win (which he has a right to), she would still end up being a parent unless she terminated her rights.

 

There are fathers all over the country fighting (and winning) to get their kids back from unethical adoptions.

[LibraryLover]

((ETA only hugs))

[Carol in Cal.]

Open adoption is working out extremely well for a cousin of mine.  Her son's birth mother and grandmother and the birth mother's subsequent baby are all welcomed at Christmas and at other times.  She is very much a part of her birth son's life, but 'not the mommy'.  I'm very impressed to see it play out like that.  

 

I think that it's important to remember that there is a young girl involved here, and also that there is a baby.  

[Shellydon]

I would strongly encourage adoption. 

[melmichigan]

I have no advice but wanted to send  :grouphug: .

[LibraryLover]

Want to add that this is not a parenting issue.  This is life.  You take care, Barb.

[Sneezyone]

I had a very good friend experience something similar as a junior in college. The school had childcare available, mostly for profs, that they made available to her and also adjusted her financial aid package to reflect her changed circumstances. She became an independent student and was eligible for more aid. Family housing, off campus, was also available at our school. Do you know what is available on or near campus yet? Schools with graduate students often have these sorts of resources. I have no dog in the fight ideologically but hope she works through all scenarios and picks the one that feels right for her. My friend graduated just one semester after the rest of us so it can be done with minimal academic disruption. Full disclosure: I'm an adoptive mom and walked this path as an 18yo and have no regrets about my decisions either time. The choice she makes should be best for her and no one else, including infertile or hopeful adoptive parents.

[Murphy101]

I don't understand why this is her only option?

 

If she has national merit, there should be several schools to choose from?

 

How willing are you to help?

 

If things go well, she will be crazy exhausted, but she wouldn't necessarily have to miss a enough school to fail it. And afterward, she might qualify for more financial aid than now.

 

Does she want the baby?

Does he?

 

If so, this is entirely doable. Hard. And scary. But very doable.

[maize]

I had a very good friend experience something similar as a junior in college. The school had childcare available, mostly for profs, that they made available to her and also adjusted her financial aid package to reflect her changed circumstances. She became an independent student and was eligible for more aid. Family housing, off campus, was also available at our school. Do you know what is available on or near campus yet? Schools with graduate students often have these sorts of resources. I have no dog in the fight ideologically but hope she works through all scenarios and picks the one that feels right for her. My friend graduated just one semester after the rest of us so it can be done with minimal academic disruption.

Having a dependant does make one an independent student for Financial Aid purposes doesn't it? I hadn't thought of that.

 

Don't know what impact if any that would have in this particular situation, but it is another piece of the puzzle to consider.

[SeaConquest]

Having a dependant does make one an independent student for Financial Aid purposes doesn't it? I hadn't thought of that.

 

Don't know what impact if any that would have in this particular situation, but it is another piece of the puzzle to consider.

Exactly what I was thinking. I emancipated myself for financial aid purposes through military service. That fact ended up making college much more affordable. She might end up financially better off than had she taken the scholarship.

[idnib]

As you implied, it's often easier to feel at peace with a decision if you feel confident that you knew what the options really were, and you made the best decision that you could at the time. 

 

I agree this is so important. Since the dawn of parenthood, knowing that a mother or father was doing their best at the time they made a decision has brought so many much-needed peace.

[La Condessa]

I don't know how to make the hugging smileys, but wanted to offer my condolences to you and your daughter both.

 

I also wanted to say that there is no reason to make an either/or decision; it is totally possible to go to college and have the baby. I have known a number of people who were pregnant and parenting while at college. My sister had a ten month old and was 4 months pregnant with her second at graduation. Several friends with kids planned their class schedules together and switched off watching each other's kids during classes. One young dad in my Hebrew classes brought his little boy to class every day, he would crawl around the floor and the professor would hold him for dad during timed tests. Moms due during finals time is the trickiest, and generally included making arrangements in advance with the professors to take finals a week early, unless baby came then, in which case they'd come for finals at the regular time.

[Mergath]

Open adoption is working out extremely well for a cousin of mine.  Her son's birth mother and grandmother and the birth mother's subsequent baby are all welcomed at Christmas and at other times.  She is very much a part of her birth son's life, but 'not the mommy'.  I'm very impressed to see it play out like that.  

 

I think that it's important to remember that there is a young girl involved here, and also that there is a baby.  

 

I don't want to start an argument about adoption, but for the sake of the OP having all the info I just want to point out that the adoptive parents can (and often do) end an open adoption whenever they want and the bio parents have no legal recourse whatsoever.  I don't think a lot of people realize that about open adoptions.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't want to start an argument about adoption, but for the sake of the OP having all the info I just want to point out that the adoptive parents can (and often do) end an open adoption whenever they want and the bio parents have no legal recourse whatsoever.  I don't think a lot of people realize that about open adoptions.  

That is not true in California at least.

 

What is true is that adoptive parents make different levels of commitments to birth parents.  The written agreements are legal obligations and fully enforceable.  The informal, 'why sure, you are always going to be welcome' comments are not necessarily enforceable.

 

I know this because a former friend of mine, who was a lawyer, reneged on her verbal commitments and asserted that it was legal and legitimate to do so, but kept the written ones because she knew darn good and well that they were enforceable.  AS A LAWYER she knew this.  I thought that backing out of the verbal commitments was unethical, and I still do, but it IS legal.  However, backing out of the written commitments is illegal.

 

Typical written commitments here include annual or semi-annual mailing of photos, regular progress updates, and an amount of visitation.  

[MomOfABunch]

First, *hugs* to you Barb.

 

Having a dependent (or getting married) makes her no longer your dependent. She would be able to tap into social services programs like welfare to work, which in a lot of places covers daycare, books and even some tuition. She would likely also get the PELL grant too. I would find out what's available in your county and the county of the college she's going to.

 

You said the school was 2.5 hours away? If she can take most classes online or get them all on 2 days a week and commute, she may be able to still go and take advantage of the scholarship, at least for a while until she could make other plans. I would imagine that most professors would be willing to work with her around her due date.

 

My unplanned pregnancy turned out to be twins. I married the guy and it barely lasted a year. I put myself through school living in my parents basement with toddler twins, making use of the programs I mentioned above. Daycare for both was covered and I got help with some other expenses, like transportation costs and books. My experience with social services was that because they saw I was working hard trying to get credentials so I could support my kids, there was a lot of support available. That's what welfare is really intended for - giving you a temporary boost so that you won't need it any more. It took me about 3 years and I came out of it with a teaching license and the ability to provide for my kids myself. Looking back, this was a truly defining experience in my life. I did that, I can do anything!

[Mergath]

That is not true in California at least.

 

What is true is that adoptive parents make different levels of commitments to birth parents.  The written agreements are legal obligations and fully enforceable.  The informal, 'why sure, you are always going to be welcome' comments are not necessarily enforceable.

 

I know this because a former friend of mine, who was a lawyer, reneged on her verbal commitments and asserted that it was legal and legitimate to do so, but kept the written ones because she knew darn good and well that they were enforceable.  AS A LAWYER she knew this.  I thought that backing out of the verbal commitments was unethical, and I still do, but it IS legal.  However, backing out of the written commitments is illegal.

 

Typical written commitments here include annual or semi-annual mailing of photos, regular progress updates, and an amount of visitation.  

 

Even in California, all the adoptive parents have to do is make the argument that an open adoption is no longer in the best interests of the child, and the court can choose to close the adoption.  And a lot of people are okay with that risk when they're deciding whether or not to give up a child.  But I certainly wouldn't want someone to give up a baby for adoption thinking they can still be involved with the child, because legally it's very shaky in some places and totally unenforceable in others.  

[Spryte]

That is not true in California at least.

 

What is true is that adoptive parents make different levels of commitments to birth parents. The written agreements are legal obligations and fully enforceable. The informal, 'why sure, you are always going to be welcome' comments are not necessarily enforceable.

 

I know this because a former friend of mine, who was a lawyer, reneged on her verbal commitments and asserted that it was legal and legitimate to do so, but kept the written ones because she knew darn good and well that they were enforceable. AS A LAWYER she knew this. I thought that backing out of the verbal commitments was unethical, and I still do, but it IS legal. However, backing out of the written commitments is illegal.

 

Typical written commitments here include annual or semi-annual mailing of photos, regular progress updates, and an amount of visitation.

Whether it's enforceable depends on state law. It is not enforceable in most states, but some are changing - slowly. In most states, again, once the adoption is final birth parents have no legal recourse. It will depend on the state where the adoption is finalized.

 

I am an adoptive parent in two separate and radically different open adoptions. Our adoptions are night and day, and I can honestly say we've got two extremes. Our first - the entire birth family is like extended family. We've been in weddings, vacationed together, and the birth grandparents are grandparents to all my kids. It took an excruciating amount of work to make it happen, despite the fact that we were all committed from Day One to open adoption. We have been written up in articles, and used as a positive example enough to make me feel uncomfortable. Because it is hard beyond belief. And I don't think anyone can begin to predict how they will feel or react or how they will grieve. Our first adoption is with the most determined, strong woman I know. And she still struggles. It would not be the way it is if she were fragile, though she certainly has her fragile moments, I'm sure. (I love and respect her more than I can say, I'm not doing that part justice.). Our second adoption is not even close to the same level of openness. I grieve for that daily. But I understand that though she wanted it ... She cannot do it. We keep the door open, we call, we write, we send pics, but ... It's hard. I hope she will come around, and I accept that she may not. She is emotionally fragile. I worry for her.

 

I hesitated to post this much. But I do feel that it's important not to minimize the grief that a birth mother will experience. Open adoption is wonderful when it works, but I don't believe - as I once did - that it helps birth moms to grieve less intensely. Just differently.

 

Ok. This is off topic, really. OP, if you want to hear how our open adoptions have played out, you are welcome to pm me. We are not looking to adopt again, nor do I know anyone who is, so no fear of pressure! I can, however, share some insight into how very open adoptions can work - or not work.

 

You are doing a wonderful, supportive job. Whatever your DD decides to do, it will be the right choice for her. And she'll have another unknown stranger's support from this end.

[kitten18]

I have nothing but (((hugs))).

[Carol in Cal.]

Even in California, all the adoptive parents have to do is make the argument that an open adoption is no longer in the best interests of the child, and the court can choose to close the adoption.  And a lot of people are okay with that risk when they're deciding whether or not to give up a child.  But I certainly wouldn't want someone to give up a baby for adoption thinking they can still be involved with the child, because legally it's very shaky in some places and totally unenforceable in others.  

 

Well, technically that is true of any custody situation--blood parenthood and possession are nine tenths of the law, and the court can choose a different arrangement if they deem it to be in the best interests of the child.  But having to go to court to make that case makes it extremely expensive and difficult, and barring a compelling 'new news' kind of reason, the case would probably lose anyway.  So it's not as easy as it might sound to sever the written agreement with the birth mother.

 

Like I said, the woman who broke her word to her son's birth mother was a lawyer.  She researched this stuff to death, and she continued with the written commitments.  They had plenty of money and considerable legal contacts to go to court if they wanted to, but she thought that they would lose.  

[creekland]

Barb, I haven't read any of the replies and can't "really" respond on this thread as it's an issue that hits too close to home for me, but not saying anything at all bothered me too, so I'm on now offering my  :grouphug:  and best wishes to you and all involved.

 

No matter what, love stays.  That's the most important thing.

[Hikin' Mama]

Barb, I was that girl, only I was 24 and almost finished with my undergraduate degree. The best thing I had in my situation was awesome parents. I can tell from your posts that you too are an incredible mom. Hugs to you as you support your daughter through this time.

[flyingiguana]

As the mom, I'd think my role would be to get her as much freedom as possible to make this decision.  One thing I would look into would be getting that scholarship deferred.  I'd be calling the college and explaining as much as I could.  I wouldn't leave it up to my daughter to do it.  Hopefully the college will a) be ok with you being involved and   b ) working with your family to allow the girl to do what's right for her without losing the scholarship because she might have to delay a year.  Just get that off the table so that's not muddying up the other decision.

 

I'd also want to provide someone she could talk to about her choices.  Someone who doesn't have a stake in the whole affair and has no agenda one way or another.  If your daughter is going to feel ok about her decision down the road, she needs to not feel forced by circumstances.

 

But keep in mind that if she's got merit aid now, she can probably get merit aid again, even if this particular college fails her.  There are a lot of colleges out there that will work with students who had life get in the way.  You know, kids who ended up pregnant, homeless on the streets, and addicted to hardcore drugs -- who still ended up with a lot of college paid for once they got on their feet.  Your daughter in no way sounds like she's in that bad of a situation (she still has you and a home).

[flyingiguana]

I've known more people who regretted adoption than regretted an abortion.  But that's a small sample size.  A lot of that is going to depend on how the person feels about abortion.  Adoption is hard.  I think you have be a pretty strong person to be able to give up a baby.  Many will feel that about abortion as well.  It's always a path you didn't take, a child that you didn't raise.  Some women are absolutely relieved and happy to have had the abortion.  But not everyone.

 

I've known a fair number of people in college at a young age with a young and unplanned child.  Life happens.  Most professors I know have been pretty cool with it.  They make allowances as they would for any other family situation.

 

In  a very few of these cases, the father stepped up to the plate and the couple are now married with a lovely kid.

 

With some others, the fathers have been complete losers and are no longer part of the picture.

 

If she goes through with the pregnancy, given the situation you've described, I wouldn't depend on the father.  He may grow up.  He may not.  She should make her decision based on the rest of her support network -- govt aid, her parents and extended family  and other friends.  If the father is still around, great.  If not, she knows she can make it without him.

[Laurie]

 

 

 . Can anyone come up with some unusual alternatives?   

 

My approach is that we start by saying that this is a family.  I don't care if there's a legal marriage or not, a family exists/has been created.  My "alternative" thinking would be to find a way to just support this young family rather than figure out who is disposable.  In my belief system, people with diagnosed or undiagnosed ASD are "family" and so are unborn babies. 

 

I hope that the young parents have something in addition to Planned Parenthood to look to for support.   I don't think we can plan every step of our lives and we're fools if we think we can.  And I feel very badly when people would write off their lives as a failure or assume that their lives will "suck" if everything doesn't go according to some plan.  

[EKS]

The few women I know who have said they made a decision to terminate still think it was the right thing to do years later. It really depends on the person.

 

This.  And also keep in mind that many women who have chosen to terminate (and continue to feel it was the right decision) don't go around discussing either the abortion or their feelings about the decision with everyone.  So the folks saying that "everyone" they know who has had an abortion has regretted it are reporting on a very specific subset of women.

[SKL]

Adoption is hard.  But the birth mom gets roughly 9 months to change her mind (after discovering she is pregnant).  A decision to abort has to be made more quickly and cannot be reversed.

 

I've heard from people who regretted that their birth child was adopted, but usually the "regret" is expressed more as resentment for not having had a real choice to raise the child.  Today in the US, most birth moms have a real choice.

 

Another thing.  About the dad.  I have no idea whether he wants to parent this child or not.  But if either parent - mom or dad - wants the child to live, I personally think that needs to be considered.

[Barb_]

I am overwhelmed by the support you've given me on this thread. I posted because I was feeling alone and worried and as the rock of the family, I don't really have anyone to lean on when I feel a little weak in the knees. I try not to post too much about my personal life and I hope I've not made a mistake doing it now, but I just needed to put it out there. Thank you all.

 

I've had a couple of days to process and I'm feeling better in general. I did find out that her scholarship can be deferred as long as the national merit people and the university both agree to do so. A Pell Grant seems less likely because she would have to be providing more than half of her own support and the support of her dependent, which means she likely couldn't live at home. But thanks for all of the ideas. You guys brought up a lot of points I hadn't thought about. Dd seems to be handling everything better than I would have expected. We talked yesterday and will probably talk again tomorrow. She is going to keep her appointment but understands that she is fully in control of the decision. Without giving away too much information on the boyfriend, she understands that he isn't capable of handling things and doesn't resent him for it. I feel badly for him because he needs help but has no support system. It's a complicated situation. Although that is another thread that I plan to post separately from this one later this week.

 

So she understands what the options are, as I can see them. She knows she has them now, and that is the important thing. For those of you who mentioned she should have a neutral third party to talk to, she has been seeming a counsellor weekly for the past 6 or 7 months. He's been a huge help to her and I was so glad she already had a working relationship with him when this happened. I have to trust that she's going to handle this like the adult she's becoming, but I'm relieved she has a network of people to turn to.

 

Barb

[SKL]

I don't trust any statistical or anecdotal evidence of how women feel after an abortion.  Most people don't go around talking about their own experience with that.  Also people tend to rationalize their decisions (about everything) because it beats feeling regretful.  Also I believe the "statistics" mix together people who aborted for all sorts of reasons, including medical considerations etc.

 

I think it's enough to know that there are some people who regret it and some people who don't.  She will have to weigh this as a possibility, but nobody else has any business telling her it will or won't haunt her IMO.

[maize]

Thanks for the update Barb.

 

Best wishes to your DD, it sounds like she has a good support network.

[Stacia]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:grouphug:  I was thinking of y'all this morning! I'm glad that you and DD are feeling a little more supported and loved through all this.

[Barb_]

Barb, big hugs.

 

I would step in with dd but not the bf. No point in applying pressure there. If he's up for it, it should come from him... And either way, actually I would be driving dd to that pp appointment. Of course still her decision but if asked for opinion, I'd say stay in school and have no regrets.

This was my first reaction, which is why I came in here to gain perspective. I wanted to be sure I developed as much neutrality as possible before I talked to her. At first I wanted to have the, "just what are your intentions with my daughter?" conversation, but I'm beginning to realize that this poor kid (because that's what he is) needs some guidance and encouragement and a little tough love to dig out of the hole he has created for himself with (what seems like) a lot of enablement from the people who should be encouraging him to grow up. My daughter has actually asked me to try and talk to him, so I'm going to have to give this piece a lot more thought.

[maize]

Your DD needs to understand that we can't change other people, if she is hoping that you talking to the bf will have some significant impact. If she wants the relationship to continue, it needs to be with the full understanding that what she sees is what she gets. People can and do change over time, but we cannot force that change nor even predict it.

[Guest]

Your DD needs to understand that we can't change other people, if she is hoping that you talking to the bf will have some significant impact. If she wants the relationship to continue, it needs to be with the full understanding that what she sees is what she gets. People can and do change over time, but we cannot force that change nor even predict it.

Amen and amen.

 

My sister had a significant issue with her boyfriend. Then, she had the same issue with her fiancé. Ten years and two kids later, the same issue only now it is a big problem because, two kids.

The man you marry is the man you marry!!!