Where did YEC begin??

[Moxie]

Since I haven't done enough damage today...

 

Really, I'm not fighting on this thread, just curious.

 

I never heard of YEC until I started homeschooling 9 years ago. I admit, I was not a great student and the sweet Sisters at my Catholic school weren't trained teachers so maybe I missed it.

 

Have certain religions always believed in a young earth? Was there a certain person who read the Bible and said, "Wait, we've been wrong all along"? When did you first hear about YEC? Were you raised with it?

[carriede]

My aunt who's Catholic believes YEC. FWIW, the Church doesn't take an official stance on it, but does say belief one way or the other is not necessary for salvation (as you mentioned in the other thread). No idea where it originated, but I doubt the Protestants were the first.

 

MAJOR edit. Woah.

[Joker]

I grew up in a southern Baptist Church and never heard it until I started homeschooling and moved to Florida. It was discussed in all the Baptist churches we attended here. We're Catholic now and happy not to have to deal with it at church anymore. I have no idea where it started as the big deal it is today.

[carriede]

Don't orthodox Jews believe in the literal creation story? Don't they count years from the beginning of Creation? So like 6000+?

 

Oh! It's the year 5775. :)

[Ellie]

I became a Christian in 1974; at that time, Institute for Creation Research (which promotes young earth/special creation) was already well established. Mr. Ellie grew up in a Southern Baptist home; he has always believed in Young Earth.

[goldberry]

I never heard of it before homeschooling.  Raised very conservative Christian.  DH never heard of it either.  We were raised in the Bible belt and I never heard of it.

[Mimm]

Definitely more than nine years ago. My science curriculum taught YEC when I was a kid (I'm in my 30s now). My grandfather, a pastor at a Baptist church, heard what I was learning and was horrified and told my mom to use something else. I don't recall us switching to another curriculum or my parents taking a different stance on the age of the universe issue so YEC was the viewpoint I was raised with most. That is not the viewpoint I hold now. We can raise our children and teach them but in the end, they decide for themselves what they believe. In a sense that's unnerving but it's also a comfort to me. I can only screw them up so much. ;)

 

ETA: This was a homeschooling science curriculum, just so we're clear. I don't know how common YEC is outside of homeschooling circles.

[Loowit]

It was never a topic of discussion in the church I grew up in which was a community non-denominational church.  Sunday school teacher all had a bit different take on creation and when things began, but it was never an issue.  When I was in High School my father heard about a speaker coming to town to do a series of talks on the subject and we decided it would be interesting to go and hear.  I was very impressed by the speaker and it was the first time that I really put much thought into the subject.  This would have been over 25 years ago.  The bio of the person who gave those talks says he has been doing this for more that 40 years.

 

I don't think that the idea of a young earth is a new idea.  Many people even hundreds (thousands?) of years ago believed in a young earth because of a literal reading of the Bible.

[LizzyBee]

The Teaching Company/Great Courses has a course on The History of Evolution. He talked about how early on, Christians accepted evolution, but at some point, people began to see evolution as an attack on faith. I don't remember all the specifics, but it was pretty interesting. I might have to check it out of the library again to refresh my memory.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

The Teaching Company/Great Courses has a course on The History of Evolution. He talked about how early on, Christians accepted evolution, but at some point, people began to see evolution as an attack on faith. I don't remember all the specifics, but it was pretty interesting. I might have to check it out of the library again to refresh my memory.

I'm going to need to check that out.

[TracyP]

Despite being raised in a very conservative Protestant Christian home, I had never heard of YEC until I began homeschooling. I have since met many people - including 2 pastors - who are completely unfamiliar with the entire concept. It seems to be much more common in homeschooling circles than anywhere else.

[sarasue7272]

As far as I know all Christians prior to the 19th century took the Bible's creation account literally. Other religions have their own creation stories.

What else would people have believed?

 

As a child I never noticed the cognitive dissonance between the Bible and 'millions of years' I learned in school.

[Alessandra]

When I was in school, we learned about James Usher (17th century )dated the Earth to a particular minute of a particular day in 4004 BC. Our jaws just dropped.

 

Fast forward to homeschooling sites. I was astonished to find creationism was accepted by so many people, but now I am sort of used to it.

[PrincessMommy]

I don't know when the belief started per-se, but I think the fact that it's become a hot-button and/or salvation issue amongst some Protestants probably harkens back to the Monkey trials.  I think they just took the rhetoric to a new level, esp. for state vs church people.

 

 

[PrincessMommy]

oh, and I saw your other thread...  I loved what you wrote, but it's already 4-5pages long and I can only imagine how heated it's gotten. :grouphug:  

[Pawz4me]

I was in either Baptist or Methodist churches until I was 39.  And I never remember anyone discussing YE until we started homeschooling.  Mostly I don't remember it being anything other than a "woo woo" idea until I joined this board and learned that people actually take it seriously

[creekland]

Is this a trick question?

 

Isn't the answer supposed to be somewhere around 6000 years ago?   :coolgleamA:

[MFG]

I believe the idea of a young earth has been present throughout history. The YEC movement in recent American evangelicalism seems to date to the 1961 publication of The Genesis Flood by Whitcomb and Morris. If not its beginning, YEC got a big boost at that time.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Genesis_Flood

[GoVanGogh]

An interesting book on the topic:

The rocks don't lie: A geologist investigaes Noah's flood by Montgomery

[Mama Geek]

Interesting question, I have grown up Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and just did a search on Martin Luther and evolution.  I know where I stand, really wasn't 100% sure where Luther stood.  So just out of curiosity I looked.  He was a YE creationist.  He was alive from 1483-1546.

[Guest]

Don't orthodox Jews believe in the literal creation story? Don't they count years from the beginning of Creation? So like 6000+?

 

Oh! It's the year 5775. :)

 

No.  We don't assume it is a literal account. 

 

If you want to be technical, the years are counted from day "6", not "day" 1.

[FarmingMomma]

I am a Christian, raised Christian, and I'd never heard of the YE theory until last year when I started homeschooling.  I made the mistake of ordering an Apologia science book :(  I was flipping through, got to the part about "dinosaurs living at the same time as people," and promptly listed the book for resale.  I asked our current and retired pastors about it, the retired pastor said he'd heard of the movement, but was shocked when I told him about the Apologia "Science" and how popular it seems to be in homeschooling.  

[carriede]

No. We don't assume it is a literal account.

 

If you want to be technical, the years are counted from day "6", not "day" 1.

Hmm maybe not now, but that's the historical belief, yes?

[Guest]

Hmm maybe not now, but that's the historical belief, yes?

 

The non-literal perspective has been written about since medieval times at least. (How long before that depends somewhat on how ones classifies Kabbalistic texts and traditions and/or how one interprets some of the Kabbalistic discussions.) There is no textual evidence to assert that one position or another was held before that.

 

This is not to imply that there are not literal readings, but multiple strands of interpretation are not uncommon in our historical approach to our sacred texts. 

[carriede]

The non-literal perspective has been written about since medieval times at least. (How long before that depends somewhat on how ones classifies Kabbalistic texts and traditions and/or how one interprets some of the Kabbalistic discussions.) There is no textual evidence to assert that one position or another was held before that.

 

This is not to imply that there are not literal readings, but multiple strands of interpretation are not uncommon in our historical approach to our sacred texts.

Very well. Thanks for the insight. :)

[Lady Florida.]

I never heard of YEC until I started homeschooling 9 years ago. 

 

I never heard of it until we started homeschooling 10 years ago but once I did hear of it, it seemed to be everywhere. Some politicians are YEC, yet I had no idea. I didn't know that it existed, and yet it's apparently been around a while.

 

ETA: I was raised Catholic, then became United Methodist. Never heard of it in either of those church communities.

[QueenCat]

My aunt who's Catholic believes YEC. FWIW, the Church doesn't take an official stance on it, but does say belief one way or the other is not necessary for salvation (as you mentioned in the other thread). No idea where it originated, but I doubt the Protestants were the first.

 

MAJOR edit. Woah.

 

And it's not something all Protestant denominations adhere too.................... from what I've seen, most don't. It's a small minority overall with some large pockets in certain areas. Even where I'm at in the Bible Belt, it's not the norm outside of a few groups.

[fraidycat]

I first heard of YEC right here at The Hive, four years ago when I started researching homeschooling.

 

I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic Jr. High school.

[Ellie]

And it's not something all Protestant denominations adhere too.................... from what I've seen, most don't. It's a small minority overall with some large pockets in certain areas. Even where I'm at in the Bible Belt, it's not the norm outside of a few groups.

 

"A small minority"? Huh. I don't think so. Of all the Protestants I knew for 30 years, I can say without fear of contradiction that all believed in YE. I attended mostly Assemblies of God and Calvary Chapels, but I also had many friends who attended non-denom groups. I have no doubt that all of the pastors would have said they believed in "young earth," although that particular term is itself quite young; challenging how old the earth is has not been as important as whether or not the earth was created in a literal six days or that it evolved over millions of years from slime on a rock. 

[Guest]

I would contend that if we are looking at the entirety of church history the aberration is old earth or theistic evolution, not believing the biblical creation account is plainly stating what it means to say. The framing of these sorts of discussions always seems odd to me since I believe what Christians across the globe have believed for centuries, up to the point secular humanism and associated ideas began infiltrating seminary in the 19th century.

 

There are some very fascinating resources describing which schools and denominations and why, as well as the evolution (pardon the pun) of places like Harvard and Princeton from inception to now.

[PeacefulChaos]

YEC by name, I hadn't heard of until the last few years.  

BUT pretty much all the people I knew believe that the Bible is literal, etc.  So while we were never like, oh, we're YEC, that's just what we were.  If that makes sense.

[Jasperstone]

Don't orthodox Jews believe in the literal creation story? Don't they count years from the beginning of Creation? So like 6000+?

 

Oh! It's the year 5775. :)

I'm not a Jew, but just want to point out that the creation of man (approx.6000) doesn't necessarily mean that the earth was made then.

 

Some Christians while still believing a literal view of creation have seen scriptures in the Bible pointing to an old earth etc...

[QueenCat]

"A small minority"? Huh. I don't think so. Of all the Protestants I knew for 30 years, I can say without fear of contradiction that all believed in YE. I attended mostly Assemblies of God and Calvary Chapels, but I also had many friends who attended non-denom groups. I have no doubt that all of the pastors would have said they believed in "young earth," although that particular term is itself quite young; challenging how old the earth is has not been as important as whether or not the earth was created in a literal six days or that it evolved over millions of years from slime on a rock. 

 

I think if you look overall at Christians in the US, you will find it small. If asked if they believe in Creationism, many will say yes. But if you ask "young earth creation", outside of certain regions, where the denominations you mentioned are prevelant, you will hear "no". And that would include their pastors too.

 

[leeannpal]

I became a Christian in 1974; at that time, Institute for Creation Research (which promotes young earth/special creation) was already well established. Mr. Ellie grew up in a Southern Baptist home; he has always believed in Young Earth.

 

Interesting. I, too, grew up in a Southern Baptist home in Alabama, no less, and had never known anyone who was a YE believer until a few years ago. I honestly thought the idea was cultish when I first heard of it.

[Guest]

I was raised to believe in Creation and to believe that anything having to do with evolution was incompatible and therefore false. I remember the ACE paces used at the Christian school I attended discussed creationist apologetics.

[Slache]

I was raised to believe in Creation and to believe that anything having to do with evolution was incompatible and therefore false. I remember the ACE paces used at the Christian school I attended discussed creationist apologetics.

 

Growing up you didn't believe in natural selection? Variation within a species?

[LucyStoner]

It may not be the majority of Americans, but it is the plurality.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

[Guest]

Growing up you didn't believe in natural selection? Variation within a species?

Once I was an adult, those were areas where the idea began to fall apart.

[Slache]

It may not be the majority of Americans, but it is the plurality.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

Very interesting. I think people are overestimating their own knowledge when it comes to evolution.

[Rosie_0801]

I can't remember when I didn't know about YEC, but I can't remember how I would have known about it because that's not the sort of conversation people have with other people's children. Perhaps it was one of Mum's "some people believe" conversations.

[Slache]

Once I was an adult, those were areas where the idea began to fall apart.

Well for what it's worth I know those things to be true, as do most (if not all) YECers I know. :)

[QueenCat]

It may not be the majority of Americans, but it is the plurality.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx

 

I'm not seeing what you see........... I don't see the poll separating a young earth creation from old earth. In fact, the stats you present focus on when HUMANS were created, not the earth.

[Guest]

I meant to put this here as well, since it's applicable.

 

Actually, the founder of AIG is Australian. When I lived in China and worked in a Christian International school in Guangzhou, my co workers were mostly YE. They were from America, New Zealand, India and Scotland. It may be more prevalent in American churches, but it definitely is found in other countries.

That has been my experience as well. Outside of Western Europe and the British Commonwealth it's pretty common in Christianity, and the only place it seems fought over is the US. There are reasons why Western Europe and the Commonwealth don't contend on this issue, but it is quite complex :). And of course there are variances on both sides of the issue.

[Ellie]

Interesting. I, too, grew up in a Southern Baptist home in Alabama, no less, and had never known anyone who was a YE believer until a few years ago. I honestly thought the idea was cultish when I first heard of it.

 

"Young earth" is a very new term. Before someone came up with that, the emphasis was on the fact that God created the earth, not that it evolved out of nothing. I'm sure my daughters would say they never heard of "young earth," either, and that would be because no one I knew used that term. However, they were always taught that God created the earth in six days. We never discussed how old the earth actually was.

 

Back in the 70s when I became a Christian, it was Creation vs Evolution (or more particularly, Special Creation). I don't know when "Young Earth" vs "Old Earth" became a thing. I have my suspicions, though...

[SeaConquest]

The non-literal perspective has been written about since medieval times at least. (How long before that depends somewhat on how ones classifies Kabbalistic texts and traditions and/or how one interprets some of the Kabbalistic discussions.) There is no textual evidence to assert that one position or another was held before that.

 

This is not to imply that there are not literal readings, but multiple strands of interpretation are not uncommon in our historical approach to our sacred texts.

If anyone is interested in this topic, you might look at the books by (Orthodox) Jewish physicist, Gerald Schroeder. He wrote several books attempting to reconcile Genesis/Biblical accounts and the Big Bang/modern science.

[Nemom]

I must have lived in a bubble my whole life. Grew up in middle America and have attended various churches throughout the years. I never knew Christians believed in anything other than a literal YEC-until I came here. I had never heard of an OEC view. Attended public school so I am very familiar with evolution.

 

I have found myself in an interesting situation the last couple of years because I no longer believe in YEC. So now I am trying to repair the damage I have done teaching my kids to believe in YEC and shun evolution. It is confusing to them when I tell them to ignore parts of what they are hearing at church especially since their Dad still isn't on board...

[Wheres Toto]

I never heard of YEC until I came on these boards about 5 years ago.  And even then I didn't realize that it was such a widespread, sincere belief.  I grew up United Methodist, went Catholic for a while (and my mother's entire family is Catholic) and currently attend UMC.  Never heard the idea at any of them.

 

As far as literal interpretation being a long-held belief - isn't there some discussion about the Hebrew/Aramaic word for "day" also possibly meaning "era" or period of time?  So, even a literal interpretation of the original language does not necessarily lead to a YE conclusion?

 

I also thought that many of the earlier churches went with a more allegorical rather than strictly historical interpretation of things?

[QueenCat]

 

 

As far as literal interpretation being a long-held belief - isn't there some discussion about the Hebrew/Aramaic word for "day" also possibly meaning "era" or period of time?  So, even a literal interpretation of the original language does not necessarily lead to a YE conclusion?

 

Exactly!

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I hadn't heard of YEC until homeschooling.

 

 

I still hear very little about it outside of homeschooling circles.

[ScoutTN]

I think the age of the earth has been debated as early as the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers, so before 325 A.D.

 

I remember reading some in grad school, but it has been a long time.