DawnM Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I was going to write my own opinion, but decided to let it stand as is to get others' opinions first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Drug use. My brother used to do drugs. Left needles around the house...had scary people knocking on the door looking for him as well as police. Other then that I'm pretty lenient. So long as they are not engaging in anything criminal or hazardous to the safety of the other family members living there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Violence towards family members. Behavior that makes it unsafe for younger siblings or parents themselves. I am very fortunate not to know what I am talking about, since my teens are great kids who are a joy to have around. I am not convinced that evicting a troubled teen helps the teen in any way; I have a hard time imagining how pushing him further towards undesirable friends/drugs/crime would be beneficial. But I can see that parents could be in a situation where they had to sever ties to protect themselves and other children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolittleboys Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Drug use (not talking about some experimenting with pot though) or violence towards family members. And there are a bunch of other reasons that would make me "encourage" an adult child to move out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 The absolutes: Ongoing drug abuse with unwillingness to seek treatment. Significant abuse of sibling (beyond their usual squabbles!) - everyone in my home deserves a safe environment. Abuse of others and unwilling to seek treatment - e.g., abuse of a girlfriend. Then there is the grey area - not actively schooling or seeking work, while lounging at home and living the good life with little contribution to the family...tolerable for a time, but the consequences would grow with time (e.g., eliminating cell phone, tv, video game systems, restricting car privileges, might be moved from a room of his own to a couch, no laundry service...generally make life at home drab and unpleasant, but short of kicking out). I would not kick out a child who is actively schooling or working and willing to pitch in with the family. Unplanned child - wouldn't kick out, but would expect the level of responsibility to step up a notch. All so easy to say. My brother's son, 26 years old, is an addict, drops in and out of treatment, lost his job for theft and now can't get another, dropped out of college - every parent's nightmare. SIL wants to let him move in fully with free room and board, phone, etc, take care of him, not require anything, because "he's my baby." I've been backing up my brother's stance - a place on the couch, basic food, not much else except rides to the treatment center when requested - but it is agonizing for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okra Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Consistent, habitual, drug use. I would do my best to get said child into treatment, not just kick them out. These kids need help, so hopefully the situation would be that the child would be okay with going into treatment. But, that being said, if the kid is an adult I can't change the choices they make. But, I do not think I would let a kid live in my house knowing about habitual drug use. Not concerning drug use: Adult kids that just need help are a slippery slope I think. Sometimes people need help. Family is there to help, and should help in many situations. But, if I found an adult child living with me for an extended period that I felt was able and not working towards certain goals in life, whatever those goals may be, just kind of leaching off my income, I would have some serious talks with them about moving out. This might turn into a situation where I would definitely ask them to leave, but it's a bit more difficult to say, as each situation is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Drugs, violence, ....and if the 18 year old is done with high school, they get six months to either be in college or have a job. If in college full time can live at home if close, rent free. Part time school, better get a job as you are paying some rent to remain at home. No college and still want to live at home? Pay full rent. ( note, if possible parents bank rent to gift back to kid when they do move out and go to school etc.etc.) My one dd was all "I am an adult now and can make my own life choices!" (She wanted to live at home for free, spend her temp. Job money on herself, and not go to the local cc yet " I need a year to decompress from high school" (which she had basically blown off, hence the cc as only college option). My, wasn't she surprised when I retorted that her dad and I were also adults, and did not chose to support her if she did not go to college, and rent was (reasonable amount) if she didn't go....or she could move out. Ps, I give up trying to correct all the little typos I get from using the iPad. I am truly not as dumb as my iPad makes me look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I thnk there is a difference between a "kick out" that involves puttng a kids stuff on the curb and changing the locks vs. telling a child he needs to move out and setting a time frame for that. I think kids ever 18 generally need a good bit of parental support. And I intend to provide financial emotional and practical support to my children through their early 20s as they pursue college or professional goals. However my home is my home, and I intend to live here in peace. Living in my home as an adult is a privilege that carries some responsibility. I have expectations including treating other family members with civility and kindness, helping out with upkeep, and actively pursuing adult goals. While I would not physically kick a kid to the curb for rude behavior or an unwillingness to work, I would eventually let a child know if his or her behavior did not meet our family's expectations. I am simply not willing to live with and support an adult who does not treat other family members well. I don't charge rent, I don't require help with utilities, and I'm happy to keep food on hand even for an adult to child living at home. But I do absolutely expect that person to be kind, helpful, and pleasant to live with. So if adult child who was unwilling to make himself pleasant, he or she would need to find another place to live. I probably could be more patient with professional procrastination then with interpersonal strife. But enforcing that would not include a sudden and physical removal of a child from my home. It would be more of a process. While I know that sounds inexact, I do think relationships are complicated and individual. So that's my general policy but how it would be acted out in reality would depend on a lot of factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Anything illegal or not following a reasonable plan of going to school or working towards saving money to move out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It would have to be something pretty extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Before about age 24 or so, it would have to be really extreme. Not just drug use, but drug abuse without any counseling, for example. Violence toward members of the household or serious illegal behavior all without getting professional help. After about age 24 or so, I would be more open to kicking an adult child out for refusing to work, refusing to go to college, not having a life plan in a consistent sort of way. In part because I would have been working nearly exclusively with them on doing those things in various ways and eventually there does have to be a consequence. I'd probably still end up doing the legwork of finding a way for that to happen - an apartment, a program, whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Well, crap. I just wrote the most brilliant post ever, and then my computer bombed. Anyhoo... I agree with the serious issues listed above. Especially if there are other children living at home. But I also feel that even without serious behaviors, at some point it is time to part ways. Usually the kid takes the initiative, but I think that, more than people often admit, the parent(s) gradually push in that direction. For example, setting restrictions that are not age-appropriate, charging rent that is similar to what would be paid in independent living, re-assigning bedrooms so the eldest ends up in the least comfortable spot, and dropping not-so-subtle hints that it's time to look for a job / place. And I don't think any of that is wrong, depending on the individual(s) involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I plan on pushing my kids before age 18 to get ready for independence (if they need pushing at all). I hope I would never kick them out, but I don't want their hanging around to be because they don't have the confidence / abilities to do otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLMom Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Drugs, violence, untreated mental illness if it includes the other things I mentioned, other illegal activity that they won't get help with, not trying to better self like attending college, trade school, or working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 But I also feel that even without serious behaviors, at some point it is time to part ways. Usually the kid takes the initiative, but I think that, more than people often admit, the parent(s) gradually push in that direction. For example, setting restrictions that are not age-appropriate, charging rent that is similar to what would be paid in independent living, re-assigning bedrooms so the eldest ends up in the least comfortable spot, and dropping not-so-subtle hints that it's time to look for a job / place. My mother lived with her mom. She got married, and she and my dad lived with Grandma. She had children, and she and my dad and me and two siblings lived with Grandma. After my parents bought their own house when I was 10, they brought Grandma with them. She lived with us until the day she died. Adult children living at home does not have to equal dysfunctional losers. They can simply be a functional, multi-generational family. Which is very much the norm elsewhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It would have to be pretty extreme. Physically violent , but then there would have to be more going on because he's so laid back normally. Drug abuse? I don't know. Since it's just me, I'd almost rather have him and make his life miserable until he got help. Drug abuse is pretty high in our area and kicking him out wouldn't help the situation. I could make him go live with his dad, who would pretty much give him more trouble than me. On the other extreme, I can see him living here for years. I have no issue with a generational household as long as there is a peace, but it not in his long-term plans. He wants different things out of his life. He may start college while living at home and transfer, as he does better by easing into things. I don't think moving on with his life will be an exception. So I could see gently kicking him out to overcome some of his own fears, not necessarily over bad choices he was making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 My mother lived with her mom. She got married, and she and my dad lived with Grandma. She had children, and she and my dad and me and two siblings lived with Grandma. After my parents bought their own house when I was 10, they brought Grandma with them. She lived with us until the day she died. Adult children living at home does not have to equal dysfunctional losers. They can simply be a functional, multi-generational family. Which is very much the norm elsewhere in the world. In my original comment which got lost, I noted a difference with girls vs. boys. I think basically in nature it is unusual for there to be more than one dominant male, and the male tends to grow up to be more or less dominant or to reject the dominance of the previous male. Hence time to move out. I also noted (in my lost comment) that my own parents were much more comfortable letting the daughters stay vs. the sons. Some societies have figured out how to keep some families happy with more than one adult male (not including elderly grandpas) in the same household, but it doesn't seem to be the norm and it doesn't seem to be easy, even where it is considered the ideal. I know a lot of people will look at this as a sexist comment. ETA: I have friends in countries where the males are supposed to stay with their parents forever. However, in the families I know, the homes are designed more like apartments where each mature man and his family has his own space, or one of the brothers is pursuing business in another city, or some other arrangement where they are not actually living on top of one another. And also, most of the families I know in such places don't have multiple sons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I can't really think of anything. Dd is an only child, so I wouldn't have to kick her out to protect other children. And in the case of something like drugs or mental illness, I'd rather have her here and safe than out on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Apparently, nothing. At this rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Reading this thread I'm kind of reminded of all the not yet parents who have firm opinions on what they will or won't do when they are parents. Keeping that in mind, I think this is a topic I can't reply to. Because I haven't BTDT, I just don't know what factors (if any) might cause me to kick one of the boys out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It would have to be flat out abuse or violence that wasn't tied to a treatable mental health issue. Or long term heavy substance abuse with absolute refusal to seek treatment. He some fairly signifigant executive functioning issues, so we are actually encouraging him to start slowly with dual enrollment and do at least the first few years of college while living at home. Both for the help we can offer with managing things, but also to save money. Honestly, I would be content to have him and his future family live next door, we genuinely enjoy him as a human being and I don't feel like the bonds of family should drastically change at some arbitrary age. We took in a teen about 10 years ago. We love him to the moon and back and seeing him make his own way in the world is amazing. That being said, because we love him, living in the same house isn't a great idea. However, even at 25 we have offered unconditional emergency housing, possible garage conversion, or even plunking down a "tiny house" or camper on our lot should he ever want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I like Regentrude's answer. I think violence that makes our home unsafe for other family members would be it. Drug use would have to be extreme. Fwiw, I was a kid smugly told to not bother coming home at night, because I had been caught sneaking out. I was 16. I was not violent or using any illegal substances. There were enough caring adults in my life that I eventually landed on my feet. My oldest turns 16 this month. I cannot fathom how he could do anything to make me want that life for him. Now or two years from now. When it comes up in conversation with my teens I make sure they know they're more than welcome in our house. We *want* them to stay until they're ready to forge their own way. The only caveat I've ever added is unless you plan on being 40 and still playing video games in the basement all day. (They laugh and clarify they will be contributing members of society.) Eta: My relationship with the person who showed me the door is nonexistent today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Our then 19yo was kicked out of an apprenticeship program and we did not allow her to move back home. The reasons were, she had refused to do things she needed to for the apprenticeship, such as do homework, be on time, complete some counseling that would help her be less passive-aggressive and easier for them to work with. She had an apartment that was one bedroom all utilities included for $350 a month, so we told her to get a job and keep her apartment. All the reasons she was not welcome in the program were reasons she was not welcome home. Her passive aggressive behavior was always directed at me even though I have made HUGE sacrifices for her and always put her needs ahead of my wants. My younger children needed to be the most important and her drama always made sure she was getting the most attention. We allowed her to live with us last year for a few months, and even gave her the best job she had ever had and she spent all the time she was here causing drama, poisoning people against each other, being disrespectful to her father and I even though she was 25. I had some harsh words with her and she left. The damage she managed to do in a few months was amazing. We are just now over it. I am NOT going to allow her to move in with us again, ever. She called last night to say she got a second job so that she could afford her current lifestyle. It was really comical how upset she was over getting the second job. She was only working two days a week and doing a little babysitting here and there. She has always seen her dad and I work hard for everything we have. She really just wants to work very, very little and have us supplement her. The second job is going to be very easy, and she wasn't doing anything but watching TV in her spare time, but it is making her very upset to have it, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Our then 19yo was kicked out of an apprenticeship program and we did not allow her to move back home. The reasons were, she had refused to do things she needed to for the apprenticeship, such as do homework, be on time, complete some counseling that would help her be less passive-aggressive and easier for them to work with. She had an apartment that was one bedroom all utilities included for $350 a month, so we told her to get a job and keep her apartment. All the reasons she was not welcome in the program were reasons she was not welcome home. Her passive aggressive behavior was always directed at me even though I have made HUGE sacrifices for her and always put her needs ahead of my wants. My younger children needed to be the most important and her drama always made sure she was getting the most attention. We allowed her to live with us last year for a few months, and even gave her the best job she had ever had and she spent all the time she was here causing drama, poisoning people against each other, being disrespectful to her father and I even though she was 25. I had some harsh words with her and she left. The damage she managed to do in a few months was amazing. We are just now over it. I am NOT going to allow her to move in with us again, ever. She called last night to say she got a second job so that she could afford her current lifestyle. It was really comical how upset she was over getting the second job. She was only working two days a week and doing a little babysitting here and there. She has always seen her dad and I work hard for everything we have. She really just wants to work very, very little and have us supplement her. The second job is going to be very easy, and she wasn't doing anything but watching TV in her spare time, but it is making her very upset to have it, lol. Reminds me of one or more relatives I have. "Waah, I have to work in order to eat." Well .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 This is a complicated question for me. On one hand, I'm of the "as long as everyone is getting along and moving forward appropriately with their lives, staying in the same house is fine" persuasion. At one point, we looked at houses to rent that had some kind of separate entrance or "mother-in-law" apartment, thinking that kind of arrangement would allow our daughter to have some independence while not having to strike out completely on her own. And, if we had found the right arrangement, I can see that situation might have lasted for a good number of years and been perfectly happy and healthy for all of us. However, we live always in the shadow of the story of one of my husband's brothers. He was a bright, funny, charming guy who just never got his stuff together. There were certainly substance abuse issues later, but I don't think any of us can pinpoint when that became the problem. All we know is that, although he made a few attempts at getting out on his own, he could never hold a job or keep up with rent and bills for very long. After a few months, he'd wind up back at his parents' house. At some point, he just quit trying and gave up years of his life to hanging out in the garage, smoking and drinking beer and watching bad TV. By the time their second parent died and the house had to be sold, he was in his mid-40s. He tried various things, lived with a girlfriend for a while, then with a buddy, then on his own in a series of increasingly dingy and depressing places, covering expenses by drawing on the money his parents left him (which was not a fortune, by any means). He went to the hospital repeatedly for mostly alcohol-related health problems. He died at age 50, pretty much flat broke. I don't pretend to know what the "right" thing to do would have been. At what point "should" his parents have made the decision to refuse to give him a soft place to land? But there surely must have been a time between 18 and, say, 25 when his life would have been salvageable? When, with support and a loving kick in the butt, he might have been able to get out into the world and have a real life? So, the point is that my mother's heart says my kids are welcome to stay here as long as they need us, but I am all too aware that there are dangers to certain kinds of long-term dependence. We've talked with our kids very openly about these issues and made it clear that, while they will always have a place to come in times of emergency or transition, we love them too much to allow them to wallow or stagnate sitting at home. I don't think 18 is a magic number. Our daughter graduated from college early and then lived with us until she was 19 1/2, but she was working and building her resume and her nest egg with a solid plan in mind. We've told our son the same opportunity is open to him once he graduates, but he would strongly prefer to get out on his own as soon as possible. I also think violence or other unsafe behavior would change the picture for me, although I don't have younger kids at home to worry about. I like to think that, since such behavior in either of my kids would probably be a symptom of a legitimate mental/emotional health problem, I would find a way to get that person into some kind of treatment rather than simply kicking him/her out of the home, but I'm realistic enough to know that you can't always make another adult cooperate with such a plan. The whole question hurts my heart. I have nothing but compassion for those who have had to face it up close and personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 mil kicked bil out. not sure what exactly her reasons were as it was before I knew dh. bil refused to work, expected others to support him. had opportunity to go to college, but blew that. had a real disdain for others. he moved in with long-time family friends - who ended up also throwing him out. he always stayed with us at thanksgiving - and he always gave me the creeps. I do think he had untreated mental illness - but I also considerd him potentially dangerous. that was before I heard he pulled a knife on mil - though I don't think that was why she finally threw him out. he later ripped a phone out of sil's hands and the wall when she was calling to report him to 911. (eta: he died several years ago as a result of his lifestyle catching up with him.) If a child became dangerous, drug use (especially if it endangered other family members. my brother used, grew, and dealt when I was growing up. I have no tolerance for it, and felt my mother put me at risk by not holding him accountable. she was raised to never rock the boat.), disrespect for others, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinRTX Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It really is all speculation until you have to deal with unacceptable to your household situations with adult children. I will not talk details but for most parents this is a hard situation and usually come about because nothing else is working. Details are not necessary. The child can also make it seem like he/she is the innocent party and does not deserve the treatment. I would not judge. It can be very hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Illegal activity or violence...would be the only reasons for a swift kick out. Adult kids that aren't making an effort in some form or another to become independent adults will be encouraged to step it up or leave. I haven't crossed that bridge, so I don't know what that would look like for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Endangering my other children. (drug use, violence, drunk driving) A feeling of entitlement with no desire to care for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It really is all speculation until you have to deal with unacceptable to your household situations with adult children. I will not talk details but for most parents this is a hard situation and usually come about because nothing else is working. Details are not necessary. The child can also make it seem like he/she is the innocent party and does not deserve the treatment. I would not judge. It can be very hard. Indeed. I have BTDT: I have more than one t-shirt. I would NOT kick out a child for drug or alcohol "use" or experimentation. The problem is in my home, putting drugs or alcohol into any one of these bodies is a direct line to addiction. I would kick out a child whose drug/alcohol substance abuse is: willingly untreated impacting the safety of the family creating behavior that results in stealing creating an atmosphere that is life diminishing for other members of the household (Non substance abuse related) I would also consider giving an adult child a deadline for change if: They are not working, in school, looking for a job They do not contribute functionally to the household in terms of household management, finances, etc They treat any residing family member (including furry ones) with chronic disrespect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 There are too many variables at play to be too specific, but this sums it up nicely... Endangering my other children. (drug use, violence, drunk driving) A feeling of entitlement with no desire to care for themselves. I am willing to enable college educations, a savings account built from a meager paycheck hard earned by a 18-20something, a pleasant and safe living arrangement choice vs terrible roommate, a risky fledgling entrepreneur, physical & mental health. I am already telling my kids to work hard every day, go be awesome, and send me postcards from everywhere you go! When they are grown, I'm going to live in an RV. There are 4 of them, so I'm going to park at each house for 3mo out of the year. I'm only slightly joking about the RV. My family is always open and caring during hard times, whether that means we need a place to stay for 2 weeks while in the midst of a move or just a place to spend the weekend where people care about us. I want to do the same for my kids. A soft place to land, and a stable place to find encouragement as you move forward. If I found myself with a 20yo who just wanted to play video games in the basement all day???? I think I'd start charging rent, and put the rent money in a savings account for the 20yo that he could have the day he found a place of his own. No easy answers, and I agree that it's much easier to think about with kids who are all under 12yo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I don't think I ever would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It would have to be something pretty extreme. Yes. My mother lived with her mom. She got married, and she and my dad lived with Grandma. She had children, and she and my dad and me and two siblings lived with Grandma. After my parents bought their own house when I was 10, they brought Grandma with them. She lived with us until the day she died. Adult children living at home does not have to equal dysfunctional losers. They can simply be a functional, multi-generational family. Which is very much the norm elsewhere in the world. . I lived in a fairly rural area for about three years, and it was common there too. It made no financial or logistical sense for older, sometimes unmarried adults to own and pay for their own homes while they still participated in the family farm. Some did build or put homes on parent's property, some didn't. It wasn't weird, it just was. It will be a couple of months until I have an 18yo so I am not really qualified to answer, but I am raising children from a sibling who is in their 30's and is just now possibly getting it together. We tried helping support said sibling for a bit and quickly realized we were enabling the behavior more than helping. Raising these children, in a way, also enables by freeing said parent of certain responsibilities. Yet, the children shouldn't live with those consequences, so here we are. I don't know that it is a black and white issue even when all the facts are known. I do know it would take a lot for me to kick out an 18 yo. I can't see myself doing it, but I've come to learn enough about the world to know you shouldn't become an expert at that which you have not experienced yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 A real possibility of physical danger to others in the house due to their behavior/choices would be the main thing where I can see tossing them out with little or no warning. Significant stealing. Possibly cases of extremely unpleasant but not actually dangerous behavior if the adult child had the means to handle it, or if paying for a few weeks at a hotel to give them a chance to find a different situation seemed preferable to having them stay. I don't have any real desire to draw a hard and fast line for minor drug use that wasn't putting other family members at risk, but I've heard of nurses losing their license due to drug possession by a member of their household (presumably when the item in question was prescription drugs that coincided with items missing from the nurse's place of employment), so that might be an area where we'd have to set strict rules. I would work with an adult child to get them moved out if it seemed that this would be in either their or the rest of the households' best interest for whatever reason. I'm another who is (at this point!) happy to have kids stay if there is room and they are being contributing members of the household. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 In my original comment which got lost, I noted a difference with girls vs. boys. I think basically in nature it is unusual for there to be more than one dominant male, and the male tends to grow up to be more or less dominant or to reject the dominance of the previous male. Hence time to move out. I also noted (in my lost comment) that my own parents were much more comfortable letting the daughters stay vs. the sons. Some societies have figured out how to keep some families happy with more than one adult male (not including elderly grandpas) in the same household, but it doesn't seem to be the norm and it doesn't seem to be easy, even where it is considered the ideal. I know a lot of people will look at this as a sexist comment. ETA: I have friends in countries where the males are supposed to stay with their parents forever. However, in the families I know, the homes are designed more like apartments where each mature man and his family has his own space, or one of the brothers is pursuing business in another city, or some other arrangement where they are not actually living on top of one another. And also, most of the families I know in such places don't have multiple sons. Not all males have issues with each other ya know? My BIL lived at home until nearly 40. DH lived there until 27. His father wouldn't have cared if they never moved out. Grandparents lived with them until they passed away. My dad often comes and stays for weeks. There is no alpha male display that goes on between my dad and my husband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Well, I was kicked out as an underage teen, as were 2 of my 3 siblings. No drugs, violence, or defiance was involved. Our mother just went in and out of abusive/controlling relationships and didn't want kids from previous relationships tying her down. The one sibling who wasn't kicked out happened to come of age while our mother was between relationships. I was lucky in that I had a scholarship to a good university and could take care of myself, but my younger siblings had a much harder time. It shattered their lives. So this obviously colors my view greatly. I can't imagine ever kicking my child out. To me the phrase "kick a child out" encompasses a general attitude of apathy and anger toward said child. I can't imagine feeling that way toward my child. I can imagine looking for alternative living arrangements for a child in need of help due to drugs or mental illness, but I would not be kicking the child out. I would be helping him/her find the safest environment in which to seek help. It was hard to be on my own at 17 with no one and nothing to fall back on. It's monumentally different from living and supporting yourself independently when you have the emotional support of loving parents in the background. I would never want my children to feel that way, regardless of their mental health situation or poor choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Another parent here, who would be happy to have ds stay as long as he wants, with exception for things like abuse or destructive behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Indeed. I have BTDT: I have more than one t-shirt. I would NOT kick out a child for drug or alcohol "use" or experimentation. The problem is in my home, putting drugs or alcohol into any one of these bodies is a direct line to addiction. I would kick out a child whose drug/alcohol substance abuse is: willingly untreated impacting the safety of the family creating behavior that results in stealing creating an atmosphere that is life diminishing for other members of the household (Non substance abuse related) I would also consider giving an adult child a deadline for change if: They are not working, in school, looking for a job They do not contribute functionally to the household in terms of household management, finances, etc They treat any residing family member (including furry ones) with chronic disrespect Your non-substance abuse list...yes, this, plus experimenting with drugs. If you (general thread you) have not had a kid flunk out of college (bye, bye scholarship...) move home and refuse to get out of bed except to go hang out with really unsuitable friends. Experiment with drugs. Can't hold a job (because you do have to show up from time to time) and general horrible disrespect...you simply cannot know the pain involved. I cannot tell you how bad it was. Finally for the sake of our younger son, our own sanity, and YES, to help our oldest grow up, we said if you can't live with these rules, move out. We stood firm enough that he moved out. He started by living with friends in another city, couch surfed when the friends kicked him out. Lived in his car for several weeks. After a time, we did pay his rent simply to keep him from needing to live at home. It got a bit worse before it started to get better, but it did eventually get better. Today he is married, has a daughter, and a terrific new job. He lasted 5 years at his previous job. We never gave up hope, but it was very, very, very hard--and YAY! we have a pretty decent relationship now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinRTX Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 We never gave up hope, but it was very, very, very hard--and YAY! we have a pretty decent relationship now. Yes! There is always hope! It is easy to have kids under 18 and say I will never do this, but until the problems hit you in the face and pull the rug out from under you, no one knows what they will do, maybe what they need to do to help the adult child. The road from child to adult is not easy. For some, it is harder than for others. I don't think anyone on this board would "kick a child out" for no reason. After 18 years of raising them and having them home to educate, the decision can be heartrending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 My mother lived with her mom. She got married, and she and my dad lived with Grandma. She had children, and she and my dad and me and two siblings lived with Grandma. After my parents bought their own house when I was 10, they brought Grandma with them. She lived with us until the day she died. Adult children living at home does not have to equal dysfunctional losers. They can simply be a functional, multi-generational family. Which is very much the norm elsewhere in the world. yeah this. The American thing of one being magically 100% independent at 18 (for what? So they work a minimum wage job to be able to afford a car so that they can drive to said minimum wage job to earn enough to be able to afford the car payment? That's the golden standard?) baffles me to no end. And we have these huge houses. To the OP, it would have to be something very extreme, like others have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I like Regentrude's answer. I think violence that makes our home unsafe for other family members would be it. Drug use would have to be extreme. Fwiw, I was a kid smugly told to not bother coming home at night, because I had been caught sneaking out. I was 16. I was not violent or using any illegal substances. There were enough caring adults in my life that I eventually landed on my feet. My oldest turns 16 this month. I cannot fathom how he could do anything to make me want that life for him. Now or two years from now. When it comes up in conversation with my teens I make sure they know they're more than welcome in our house. We *want* them to stay until they're ready to forge their own way. The only caveat I've ever added is unless you plan on being 40 and still playing video games in the basement all day. (They laugh and clarify they will be contributing members of society.) Eta: My relationship with the person who showed me the door is nonexistent today. I have seen this thing on Pinterest where the parent posted a sign on the door that they locked the kid out at curfew time and left a pillow/blanket on the patio. I am shocked by the number of people that seem to think that is a good idea. If that had happened to me, I would have turned around and slept at my boyfriends. Probably not the outcome the parent was hoping for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cera Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Drug use, physical violence, complete unwillingness to move toward adulthood. The first two wuld be a case by case basis dependent on if the child was actively trying to work through the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 It really is all speculation until you have to deal with unacceptable to your household situations with adult children. I will not talk details but for most parents this is a hard situation and usually come about because nothing else is working. Details are not necessary. The child can also make it seem like he/she is the innocent party and does not deserve the treatment. I would not judge. It can be very hard. That is so true. In fact the child probably also really believes that he/she is the innocent party. I never think the parent is in the wrong when I her about those kind of situations. I know that they probably already gave the kid a zillion chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 But we are. *wink* We also respond to others on a biological level (synchronized cycles of women living in close proximity). That said, I do agree that more than one generation of male can indeed live in the same household, and I think it's a darned shame that multi-generational households aren't more common in the USA because I can see they offer lots of benefits. I like what Danestress and regentrude have added already I do not subscribe to this dominant male philosophy at all really. My grandfather and grandmother lived with her parents while my grandfather recovered from TB. We are not apes. We can form relationships without our hormones dictating our reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I have not read all the posts yet, but I DID kick my son out at 19, right after his birthday. He was living at home while attending college and did great the first year. The second year, I found out at the end of the first semester that he stopped attending all but 2 of his classes so failed almost everything. I sat him down for a long talk and he promised to do better the next term, but he did exactly the same thing again. He of course, lost his financial aid, and I told him if he wanted to continue living with me, he needed to find a job. A couple of months passed with him "just not getting any interviews." I gave a deadline for a job or move out and even extended it once. In the meantime, he was having his band friends over at all hours, living in squalor in his room, ruined the carpet in there with all the spills, and basically staying up all night and sleeping the day away. I was a single mom working part time and going to graduate school full time so could not police him like I would have liked. After the 2nd deadline passed without a job, I made him give me his key, moved his belongings to the garage, and told him he had to leave. It was one of the hardest things I have done and spent the following days alternating between crying and anger at the situation. He slept on a friend's couch and lo and behold, miraculously had a job within 2 weeks. He stayed with friends another few weeks, moved back in with me for a month but I would not let him have his room back as I had a friend crashing there a couple of nights a week while she was teaching in town, and finally moved out for good. He has been renting with room mates ever since and has managed to always have a job. I still help him financially quite a bit, but our relationship is much better with him living somewhere else. He is still figuring out what he wants to do with his life (he is 21). I have offered to help him get back in school one class at a time, but he is not ready yet. He has finally figured out that he can't make a living on minimum wage even with full time hours which is why I make his car and insurance payments. He has thanked me for kicking him out and told me he was not really looking for a job that hard before then and said he would probably still be lounging around the house playing video games if I had not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I don't know. I hope I don't find out. Circumstances would have to be dire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeteranMom Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 If my 18+ kid doesn't go to advanced schooling, he/she will have to find another place to live. I would not allow drug use in my house, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I don't know that it is a black and white issue even when all the facts are known. I do know it would take a lot for me to kick out an 18 yo. I can't see myself doing it, but I've come to learn enough about the world to know you shouldn't become an expert at that which you have not experienced yourself Right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Forging checks, stealing, embezzlement, physical abuse of a younger sibling or parent, drug and or alcohol addiction if they wouldn't seek help. (Note: these are things I've lived with in my family….so that's why I feel strongly about them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I am thinking I may be facing this in the near future. My daughter has limited herself only to apply to 2 schools she was already in last year. My husband already put his foot down and said no way to the one. The other, she needs to get her scholarship back and it is not a guarantee. Both of us have told her many times she needs to apply to other schools and she refuses. She says she only wants to go to school near her boyfriend and he will transfer to the 2nd school if we won't let her go to the first. So she might very well find herself past all the application deadlines and not in to a school that she will be able to afford. Plus, she is a nightmare at home. She has a mood disorder and flies off the handle at me all the time. I am so sickened by it, but she has no place to go. If spring comes and there is no plan at all for where she is going to go to college come August, then she will need to move out. And I do not think it should wait until August. If the decision is made by January that she decided not to go anywhere in August and she plans to just work, then she needs to go. But, she literally has no place to go, not a single friend, nothing, just the one boyfriend. I am completely unsure what to do and am getting very worried about this. My husband is now suggesting we apply to other colleges for her. I am not sure about that. But she NEEDS to move out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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