I feel sad for my dd (college applications - test scores)

[Joanne]

I realize that this could go on the High School board. If you have specific threads to link me to, that is welcome and I will read it with an open mind!

 

My dd is one of the top of her class. She has taken most of the most difficult classes at her (my) school. Her GPA is over a 4.0. She's active in Student Government, Service Work, Theater.

 

She is not strong in math and math-centered sciences. She also tests poorly.

She took the ACT in June, and her results are........not competitive. Particularly the math and science. In reality, she is an excellent, above average student. She works HARD for her grades, is intelligent, and does well. She will not be going into a profession that needs a "name" school, but she would like to get into a school that has some level of select admissions.

 

She did work through a prep book and used the online help I purchased when I registered her for the test. But I can't afford a course such as Sylvan, etc.

 

Commiseration and ideas welcome.

 

[bettyandbob]

 

 

Are there lower cost prep courses in your area. My community center offers Princeton Review for about a 25 to 30% of what I see other places locally. And they give further breaks based on need.

 

I'm in the midAtlantic so I'm more familiar with SAT.

[Joanne]

Are there lower cost prep courses in your area. My community center offers Princeton Review for about a 25 to 30% of what I see other places locally. And they give further breaks based on need.

 

I'm in the midAtlantic so I'm more familiar with SAT.

 

She went to a free one hosted by a Princeton rep. But last time I looked, there was nothing of major support that was cheap enough for my budget.

[Laurie4b]

Encouragement: Many schools look at grades more than the test scores.

Encouragement re: plan B: If she can't get into the schools she wants, she can switch to the goal of transferring to those schools  Generally, the last two years are when she'd be taking most of her major courses.

Suggestion: Practice makes perfect. Have her try another test prep book and take each test under test conditions. Figure out where the mistakes are made and focus there. If time is an issue, focus on strategies to maximize time. In other words, don't just broadly practice, but practice, then do a diagnostic, then focus on the areas of weakness, then do a broad practice again.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

No suggestions but hoping many will respond.  And I would definitely encourage you to cross post this to the High School board and possibly Gen Ed.  

[lauraw4321]

I'd strongly recommend she look at women's colleges. What you described fit me pretty well (low test scores, high achievement at school). Not only did I get accepted to the women's colleges I applied to, I got scholarships.

[chiguirre]

I'd have her take the SAT. It's more of an aptitude rather than an achievement test, so she might do better. Are her grades high enough to be an automatic admit? If so, I don't think test scores matter much.

 

Here's the link for automatic admission for high school juniors:

 

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/freshmen/decisions/automatic-admission

 

Here's the link for automatic admit if you go to a CC first:

 

http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/transfer/before/automatic-admission

 

These are the links for UT Austin, but you can find similar links for TAMU. If your finances are tight, she might be better off starting at the CC for the core classes and then transfer to a state school (not just UT or TAMU, there's U of H, Sam Houston, Texas State, etc.) There are very clear instructions, including course numbers, for the classes you need to complete in order to transfer from a CC to a 4 year state school by major listed at both the CC sites and the university sites. Here's the link for UT:

 

http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/tccn/

[Greta]

I wish I had advice to offer, because I need it too (so will be following this thread), but alas I have none.  I do have LOADS of sympathy to offer, because I know I'm going to be in your shoes in a few years.  My daughter is super bright and always makes good grades.  But she does not test well.  I had an educational evaluation done when she was pretty young, and the kind, educated, highly experienced woman who performed it told me that my daughter has a high IQ and is super smart, but that the kinds of tests that they do in schools and for college applications will not show that about her.   :crying:  With our experiences with standardized tests so far, her prediction does seem to be coming true.  I am so nervous for her for the ACT/SAT, but trying not to reveal that!  Her own nervousness and lack of confidence is one of the problems (though not the only one).  Looking forward to reading all the advice you get.

[regentrude]

For the ACT: There is a series of free videos on youtube to help prep for the science section. DD found them helpful. Do'nt have the link right now, but I know it was posted several times on the high school board.

 

[Barbara H]

Okay, without knowing her full situation I'll toss out a few general ideas that may be of some help.

 

1. If she attends a traditional school (not homeschooled) she could consider test optional colleges. http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional

 

2.Look at the average test scores for schools she might be interested in. You may have already done this, but just mentioning this in case it helps someone else. Sometimes parents overestimate the scores it takes to be competitive.

 

3. Look at Colleges that Change Lives type of liberal arts colleges. I have worked with a number of "uneven" or "lopsided" kids - such as high verbal and low math, and some schools are very open to that profile. Not every kid needs to be strong across the board. I worked with a student last year who had a 15 on her first math ACT and she ended up being accepted with scholarships to 7 of the 9 colleges she applied to and these were good schools. She had great extracurriculars and wrote fantastic essays. Plenty of people in admissions aren't good at math... there are schools who can understand not every kid is even in everything.

 

4. Keep it in perspective. Test scores are ONE thing admissions considers. They aren't the only thing and in fact they aren't the most important thing. Every year college admissions offices are surveyed and every year they say grades and strength of curriculum are the most important factors considered.

 

5. Try a sample SAT if she hasn't already done so. Some kids do better on the other test and maybe she's one of them. The ACT tends to favor students who work quickly. The SAT doesn't have science so she wouldn't have to worry about that.

 

Overall, just want to say hang in there. This is a frustrating thing but it is a blip in the scheme of her life and it will work out.

[Pam in CT]

Khan Academy.  They have a relatively new test prep unit (here's the link for the SAT preparation: https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat   ; I understand another unit for the ACT is under development.  Since the basic subject tests in math focus mostly on algebra and geometry, she could work through those units as well:

 

Algebra I:  https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra

Algebra II:  https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra2

Geometry:  https://www.khanacademy.org/math/geometry

 

I think the clarity of the lectures / pedagogy / progression / built in mechanisms for monitoring progress (self- or teacher) are brilliant, and if the various motivational bells and whistles appeal to some kids, that's groovy too.  Salman Khan has done an extraordinary thing, leveling the playing field - for some kids, these (free) resources are game changing.

 

Good luck to your daughter  :grouphug: .  Testing's a nightmare.

[Liza Q]

Encouragement here.

 

My 21yo daughter also did very poorly on the math section of bot the SAT and the ACT. She had several reasons for wanting to stay home, so her best affordable, local option with those scores was community college. She could have tried for NYU etc. but she was totally demoralized by her poor grades and did not even want to try for scholarships.

 

Now, she has transferred from the CC to Hunter College, which is still affordable and a pretty good school. She is in a special program that has allowed her to create her own major (German and International Business). She actually loved the cc, where she got a lot of help and encouragement from her professors, especially in math. And - No Debt!

 

All in all she is thankful for how things turned out, as she loves the program, which is full of personal attention.

 

I realize that a CC is not anyone's dream school, but it worked well for us.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I'll just share our story.  This has to do with my oldest dd, who will be starting her 3rd year of college.  She is a sweet, hard working woman, but she is also dyslexic.  It's not bad, but it made testing difficult.  She did ok.  With lots of prep she got her score up to 22.  During high school she took classes at a local University that offered  dual enrollment.  She worked hard in those classes.  She got A's and B's, but more A's than B's so her overall GPA from the college classes was over 3.5.  

 

She ended up at a small, private college that was an excellent fit for her major (music ed, with piano and vocal).  That school not only accepted her, but offered her a lot of money.  Not quite 100% tution, but not too far off.  She earned it from her grades (and audition). 

 

Not everything comes down to that ACT or SAT score.  A good score can help open a lot of doors, but it isn't the only factor when it comes to college.  Don't let your dd become discouraged.  You work with what you have, and you learn to make it work.  Look for schools that are a good fit, and don't be afraid to apply.  

[freesia]

I have heard that one of the best ways to prep is to take the practice tests and then work through every problem you get wrong until you understand why you got it wrong. The more practice, the better, but always have her work through what you miss!

 

I have not BTDT with one of mine, but I was a very poor test taker/excellent student who made it into a highly selective woman's college that is now test optional. FWIW, my SIL even got into Yale with low test scores (but first generation college, interesting ECs). That was 20 years ago, of course, but it is just to say that while she should work on test prep, certainly, all is not lost.

[bluemongoose]

I realize my experience was from a few years ago, but I was like your dd. I had a 36 gpa, graduated with honors and college credits, but I test poorly. My PSAT said not college bound on it. I went to a private university that was pretty selective. They looked at my whole package not just the test scores (which were dismal). They let me in on academic probation for the first year. I had to pull a 3.0 gpa that first year or I would be asked to leave. I did well and graduated missing cum laude by .01 (that was a bummer let me tell ya!).

 

This school was not the only one I applied and was accepted to, but it was my first choice school. The others were state schools that were also very respected schools, and they didnt have the academic probation caveat, but they were not my first pick.

 

All that to say...there is hope.

[Melissa B]

Have you checked your local library?  Our libraries offer free ACT and SAT test prep for high school students.

[chocolatechip]

I've heard that some students do better on a certain one of the two tests; ACT vs. SAT. Maybe she could try the SAT?

[TammyS]

I think you need to try to figure out why "she doesn't test well".  Is it anxiety?  Lack of test taking skills/strategy?  Poor test organization (as in, does she get the answers right, but then end up filling in the wrong bubble and moving everything over one line?)?  Time management issues?

 

Whatever it is, I'm pretty sure it's not genetic or fate.  Try to find someone you know to give her a practice test and sit with her while she takes it.  Let them observe HOW she takes it. Or, if you are reasonably good at tests, then you do it. 

 

You can figure this out and then start working on it.   Maybe she never becomes a stellar test taker, but if her grades are good (which begs the question....how does she manage tests in school?), then she should be able to bring her score up significantly.

[Twolittleboys]

Not sure this is helpful but - I did really, really well in those kinds of testsand think at least part of it is practise/strategy. The first couple of times I tried them I didn't do very well at all! But working through a couple of books helped a lot.

 

It sounds like she doesn't mind working hard so it might help to just get several of the practice tests/prep books and really work through them. Also maybe you could find a college student who did do well on those tests and have him/her spend some time with your daughter to go over strategy/techniques. I do agree that test scores are just a small part of the whole admission process which means she doesn't have to get great scores, average should be fine.

 

Good luck!

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that with her grades she will qualify for a lot of scholarships.  Schools that are not Ivy League shovel money at kids who have proven themselves like that. 

 

Here are some options to apply to:

University of Iowa--that is a fantastic, large university that is not impacted.  It's got the second best dorm food of anywhere we visited, and absolutely awesome clubs and bookstores.  it's a top 50 institution that is easy to get into, and I'll bet she would get a bunch of aid.  Absolutely outstanding safety systems for girls, too, with free on call busses in the evenings.  You can study anything there.

 

Regis College, Denver--a small, Jesuit liberal arts college.  Lots and lots of scholarship money available.  Very self-contained campus.  Lovely place.  But small.  Lots of kids there are studying English or secondary medical professions.

 

University of Nevada, Reno--not as nationally renowned as U of I, but a good, solid education, not impacted, good scholarship money, cheaper than most to start with anyway, nice environment, medium sized.

 

Concordia University, Irvine--a small, Lutheran liberal arts college.  Very, very impressive faculty, excellent tie in program of coordinated classes.  Again, lots of scholarship money.  Extremely safe.  Conservative moral rules there, but no mandatory 'faking it' chapel.  Lots of students are studying to become teachers.  Very large, quiet library.  Best cafeteria anywhere, bar none, hands down. 

[unsinkable]

I posted this on the HS board but for anyone else reading here. It's the first of a series of prep videos for the science part of the ACT.

 

 

[ThisIsTheDay]

My experience is limited, as I've only sent one to college, but:

 

I was surprised at the variations in dd's test scores from ACT to SAT. Her ACT equivalent was 250 more than her SAT score.  I'd always heard that some kids might do better on one test, but I didn't really believe it.

 

The "science" portion of the ACT is much more reasoning and analysis than a measure of what you know about biology, chemistry, etc.  Taking the SAT would eliminate any testing of science at all.

 

Many students (most, right?) take each test more than once. 

 

More and more schools are giving non-test options for applicants.  Our largest state university has an option to apply without test scores (although it's not available for homeschoolers).

 

Community college and then transferring for her last two years.

 

[TranquilMind]

I realize that this could go on the High School board. If you have specific threads to link me to, that is welcome and I will read it with an open mind!

 

My dd is one of the top of her class. She has taken most of the most difficult classes at her (my) school. Her GPA is over a 4.0. She's active in Student Government, Service Work, Theater.

 

She is not strong in math and math-centered sciences. She also tests poorly.

 

She took the ACT in June, and her results are........not competitive. Particularly the math and science. In reality, she is an excellent, above average student. She works HARD for her grades, is intelligent, and does well. She will not be going into a profession that needs a "name" school, but she would like to get into a school that has some level of select admissions.

 

She did work through a prep book and used the online help I purchased when I registered her for the test. But I can't afford a course such as Sylvan, etc.

 

Commiseration and ideas welcome.

There are schools that are test optional.  Maybe she can apply there?

 

Her GPA over the long run should carry more weight than a single test.  Perhaps she can retake them? 

My oldest also scored higher on the ACT than the SAT. 

[Tammi K]

Encouragement: Many schools look at grades more than the test scores.

Encouragement re: plan B: If she can't get into the schools she wants, she can switch to the goal of transferring to those schools 

:iagree: Transferring into a select school can have some advantages over direct admission. My oldest graduated high school in Australia. As you can imagine, the opportunity to take SAT?ACT was rather slim ;)  She came back to the USA, did a year at a local community college (in Pa- all state community college courses are excepted at the State universities so there wasn't an issue of transferring credits). After a year she applied to Drexel - a somewhat competitive school, and was accepted without so much as an interview.

 

Coming in as a transfer student or non-typical student ( a few years older) can be a major advantages. If this is something she would consider, don't dismiss it lightly.

[Lanny]

Has she taken the SAT? Some students test better on the ACT. Some test better on the SAT. GL to your DD!

[Seasider]

In a similar boat with one who evaluates as gifted mathematically but has reading issues not quite serious enough for testing accommodations but enough to heavily impact timed test scores. Hard working and highly successful at school, I'm confident this kid will do well in actual college classes It is quite frustrating to watch this from a parent's perspective.

[In The Great White North]

Works hard for her grades?  Tests poorly?

 

I would recommend looking at her reading speed.  These tests are primarily reading comprehension tests, even the math sections.

 

Also, I 2nd or 3rd the recommendation to try the SAT.  Some kids really do score significantly better on one than the other.  The SAT has only two subject areas (English and math) to focus on.  If she is a rising senior, I also recommend taking it in Oct, so she can take it again in the fall before admissions deadlines.

[Carol in Cal.]

Also consider St. John's College, which has tons of scholarship money, mostly need-based, and which I'm sure she would get into.  It's a top 10 liberal arts college.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: Have her try the other test, and consider retesting again.   Consider contacting the actual schools she wants to attend.

[Jann in TX]

My middle dd: 4.0 high school GPA  28 cred hours dual enrollment with 4.0 average (local CC).

 

ACT 18  SAT below 700.

 

She took both tests twice.

 

She did not make the test scores needed and was 'rejected' by her choice state university. 

 

We sent in a letter asking them to reconsider-- and included the first chapter of a novel dd was working on.

 

We had an acceptance letter less than 2 weeks later (and an invitation for dd to meet with the head of the English department!).

 

Most universities will make consideration if there is a big discrepancy between the test scores and the GPA.  The writing sample gave them justification to admit her.  Unfortunately dd was 'scholarship material'--but that did not happen due to the poor test scores... it has been PAINFUL paying full price for college for TWO students.

 

My oldest (an aspie who did not pass the standardized tests either) graduated from college with honors last year.

 

Middle dd (described above)  is set to graduate next spring with HONORS!!!!

 

I have no faith in the ACT/SAT testing systems-- other than a way for them to make money.

 

 

[littlebug42]

Look at St. Edward's University in Austin.  That is my alma mater and I know they are good at judging the individual by more than test scores and grades.  I had a wonderful experience there and would recommend it to anyone.  They are also generous with scholarship money.  

[Joanne]

I think you need to try to figure out why "she doesn't test well".  Is it anxiety?  Lack of test taking skills/strategy?  Poor test organization (as in, does she get the answers right, but then end up filling in the wrong bubble and moving everything over one line?)?  Time management issues?

 

Whatever it is, I'm pretty sure it's not genetic or fate.  Try to find someone you know to give her a practice test and sit with her while she takes it.  Let them observe HOW she takes it. Or, if you are reasonably good at tests, then you do it. 

 

You can figure this out and then start working on it.   Maybe she never becomes a stellar test taker, but if her grades are good (which begs the question....how does she manage tests in school?), then she should be able to bring her score up significantly.

 

 

I have to admit up front that I am defensive in answering this post. If that comes through, I want to acknowledge in advance that the feeling exists.

 

Yes, a significant percentage of it IS anxiety. I'm skilled at helping with that, and what we have now is the reduced anxiety version. In terms of strategy, she read and comprehended the guides. Or test organization is fine; her organization and executive function in general is above average - also her time management across the board.

 

As far as the last "begged question", it is not uncommon (as evidenced by this thread) to be an above average student and not test well. She manages at school because the anxiety is less, the study is more intuitive, and her homework and other grades pull up lower test scores.

 

 

Not sure this is helpful but - I did really, really well in those kinds of testsand think at least part of it is practise/strategy. The first couple of times I tried them I didn't do very well at all! But working through a couple of books helped a lot.

 

It sounds like she doesn't mind working hard so it might help to just get several of the practice tests/prep books and really work through them. Also maybe you could find a college student who did do well on those tests and have him/her spend some time with your daughter to go over strategy/techniques. I do agree that test scores are just a small part of the whole admission process which means she doesn't have to get great scores, average should be fine.

 

Good luck!

 

She attended a Princeton Review test prep event and worked through 2 books. She did not test blind or unprepared.

 

Works hard for her grades?  Tests poorly?

 

I would recommend looking at her reading speed.  These tests are primarily reading comprehension tests, even the math sections.

 

Also, I 2nd or 3rd the recommendation to try the SAT.  Some kids really do score significantly better on one than the other.  The SAT has only two subject areas (English and math) to focus on.  If she is a rising senior, I also recommend taking it in Oct, so she can take it again in the fall before admissions deadlines.

Thanks for mentioning it. She actually IS a slow reader, which impacts test taking AND anxiety over test taking.

To those recommending CC first, I think my dd at this point would rather attend a lesser 4 year, traditional out of the home college than start at a CC. I realize that this may not be the most practical choice budget and otherwise, but I get (and honor) it from a developmental standpoint.

[PinkInTheBlue]

I completely understand. My oldest son just graduated high school and his ACT was, well, not good at all. :( He was in a funk for a while but you take what there is and move forward. He's enrolled to take classes this fall at one of our community colleges and because of all his theater experience he will be getting a theater scholarship. He's happy about that. He also did decent, but not great, on his entrance exams.

 

It wasn't all I had hoped the result of our homeschool education would have been but he's never been very motivated to work very hard and is dealing with the consequences of that. That's also an invaluable education of its own. Reap what you sow and all that. :)

[Chris in VA]

Mine didn't do well AT ALL on the SAT. I don't even think he mentally showed up for the ACT.

 

He did great in college.

 

What does your dd want to study?

 

If she's in the arts at all, Virginia Commonwealth in Richmond is a very strong school, and their requirements for the SAT are low.

 

I taught with Princeton Review for a few months--they mostly teach strategy, not content. So I'd guess it's her reading speed, as some have mentioned.

 

I'd def have her test two more times (SAT)--fall and winter.

 

And then look at schools with lower average test scores, strengthen her application all you can (I mean, have HER do it...lol) and try not to worry. ((Joanne))

[Joanne]

Look at St. Edward's University in Austin.  That is my alma mater and I know they are good at judging the individual by more than test scores and grades.  I had a wonderful experience there and would recommend it to anyone.  They are also generous with scholarship money.  

 

 

I texted her and told her to check it out.

[Joanne]

Also consider St. John's College, which has tons of scholarship money, mostly need-based, and which I'm sure she would get into.  It's a top 10 liberal arts college.

They actually send her stuff all the time. She likes the idea, but is hesitant to go so far away.

 

[GinaPagnato]

No advice, but I sympathize. One of my dc is exactly like this. In fact, he got A's in science and math classes, but still really struggled with those stupid tests.

 

Here's hoping the admissions counselors "get it."

[Laurie4b]

Encouragement here.

 

My 21yo daughter also did very poorly on the math section of bot the SAT and the ACT. She had several reasons for wanting to stay home, so her best affordable, local option with those scores was community college. She could have tried for NYU etc. but she was totally demoralized by her poor grades and did not even want to try for scholarships.

 

Now, she has transferred from the CC to Hunter College, which is still affordable and a pretty good school. She is in a special program that has allowed her to create her own major (German and International Business). She actually loved the cc, where she got a lot of help and encouragement from her professors, especially in math. And - No Debt!

 

All in all she is thankful for how things turned out, as she loves the program, which is full of personal attention.

 

I realize that a CC is not anyone's dream school, but it worked well for us.

 

Many kids from around here are going to cc for 2 years. For one thing our cc's are very good and students nearly always will get accepted at the flagship state universities if they get good grades there. But the price of tuition has kicked a lot of middle class parents in the rear and the families need the less expensive cc option for those 2 years. I think it's changed the perception of cc's. They are not  seen as "less than" and we are in an area that is really rich in excellent colleges and universities.

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

From here it looks like New Mexico is really close to Texas.  I guess it's all relative.  (Re. St. John's College)

[bettyandbob]

St. John's has two locations: New Mexico and Annapolis, Maryland.

[Joanne]

St. John's has two locations: New Mexico and Annapolis, Maryland.

 

It's New York that is interested in her. LOL

[Carol in Cal.]

Oh, I think that is St. John's University?  The Catholic one? 

The one I mentioned does have sites in New Mexico and Maryland, and it is secular.

[Joyofsixreboot]

My oldest dd was very similar to your dd. salutatorian , excellent grades, involved but not a stellar test taker. She still got a very good scholarship to her desired small, private school from her high school record and personal interview.

[Vida Winter]

Do prep on Khan Academy for math and other sources for language/science (for ACT) and have her take the test again. My kids improved a great deal after focused study and re-testing.

[Liza Q]

Oh Joanne - St John's is a pretty great place! Expensive, but in an attractive, safe neighborhood. Good academics. Nice dorms. Expensive. Tons of majors.

 

My nephew just finished his first year there. Let me know if there is anything I can find out for you!

[mamakelly]

My son didn't test well either. I think he got a 1400 something on the SAT. But with his great grades, he got into every college he applied for.

[Starr]

I haven't read the others. But my dd took the test several times and studied through two or three different books. It's important not to make careless errors on the math she knows. A review of Algebra and Geometry is good. I would focus on knowing what she knows well rather than learning new things. It helps to know how to eliminate answers. Good luck. It's so exhausting. 

[elfgivas]

is she thinking of re-testing?  if so, we have found that doing practice exams under test conditions every weekend for the six prior to the exam, and then working thru every question, noting what was right and why, and what was wrong and why each week helps a lot.  our third dd is high anxiety and dyslexic, but insists on doing tests without accommodation.  she ended up with a 4 on AP bio, having been the top of her class.  

 

its laborious, but helps.  

 

you've had lots of great suggestions of colleges for her to apply to with what she has though.  

 

good luck!

ann

[mom2samlibby]

I'd look into this program http://www.johnbaylortestprep.com. I heard him speak at our homeschool convention. He said that after going through his program, most students raised their test score by 5 points or more. He gives a lot of tips on how to succeed on test day.

[Freckles]

Has she considered Angelo State University in San Angelo, TX. They are a great school that now falls under the Texas Tech umbrella. If she has great grades, I'm pretty confident that acceptance won't be an issue. It's affordable, and the housing for freshman is all new. I earned my RN there. I loved it.