Am I supposed to get excited about this wedding?

[mom@shiloh]

I need to preface this by saying that I am a conservative Christian and I believe that living together before marriage isn't the way God means for it to be.  

 

So, my niece is getting married.  They've been living together for about five years and did secretly get married (for pragmatic reasons) about a year ago.  No one is supposed to know that though.  For my brother's sake I'd like to go to the wedding, but it grates on me to be part of something that is going to be done as this huge happy celebration and I just see it as being disrespectful to her parents' beliefs and a huge farce.  

 

 

 

 

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[LucyStoner]

Part of being an adult is being happy for other people's generally positive life events even if they don't share our identical beliefs and values. Unless there is something sinister about the match, I would put on a happy face here. Under the general idea of better late than never maybe.

[Harriet Vane]

I think you can honestly celebrate the fact that they are getting married. The marriage is absolutely NOT an offense to God. Marriage is what God wants us to do when we love someone and want to spend our life with that person.

 

As for the living together, it really doesn't matter what a person's parents believe. Not one of us is expected to live according to someone else's beliefs. Does your niece believe in God? Does she claim to be a Christian? If so, then living together outside of marriage was extrabiblical. If not, then she cannot be expected to live by what she does NOT believe. The issue to be addressed in that case is the issue of belief, not lifestyle. (Sweetly, respectfully, kindly.) Either way, getting married is inside of biblical bounds--the marriage is a thing to celebrate.

[Prairie~Phlox]

We are not ones to be the judge!!

[Mama Geek]

You don't have to be excited about it, but you should probably go.  My brother made a really bad decision in his wife and everyone but him knew it and many of us tried to talk to him.  I went to their wedding because I love my brother.  They are now in the process of getting a divorce which the only surprising thing is that they lasted a year or 2 longer than we thought they would.  (And no their not making it wasn't because of our views on her, she has many many problems.)

[mom@shiloh]

"Part of being an adult is being happy for other people's generally positive life events even if they don't share our identical beliefs and values"

 

Right.  I agree.  Maybe part of it is a sadness that we don't share our beliefs.  She professed faith, and so did the boyfriend initially, but after they'd been together for awhile they abandoned that.  

[DawnM]

At this point, for them not to be married would requite a divorce.  So, now, the marriage has already taken place anyway.  Go, enjoy, pray for her and her husband, and decide to love them anyway.

[grantmeawish]

Please be happy for this couple and don't judge.  I lived with my DH for 5 years before we were married.  During those years up to now my faith and knowledge in Christ has grown and I would not encourage living together before marriage and hope my kids make that choice, but unless I was asked my opinion, I would not state it.  Go and be happy for them!  If they are Jesus followers, pray they will grow in their faith.  I don't think it would bode well for you to go with a judgmental attitude.

[bettyandbob]

Why would you not celebrate. 

 

Do you think because they lived together first, they should never get married. If marriage is something you value, I would think you would celebrate more than others that this couple has decided to do the thing you value. 

 

Is it disrespectful to get married. Is it disrespectful to stay living together. The message I'm getting niece is just disrespectful and always will be. That's pretty harsh. Maybe that's not the message you want to give. I wouldn't think that the message you want to give a couple starting a marriage. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you. 

[GreenKitty]

I would only not go if I didn't like weddings in the first place. Other than that, its hard enough making decisions for my own life I'm so glad I dont have to live others.

[justasque]

Family is family, you know?  Your brother would like you to join him in celebrating that his daughter has found someone who vows to love and cherish and care for her for the rest of her life.  That's a joyful thing for a parent!  The wedding is a time to celebrate this, as well as to gather as a family, to catch up with distant relatives, to make conversation with and perhaps give advice to your family's young people, to listen to wise elders, to model and act out your faith in the graceful way you treat others.  Your niece has made choices that you would not have made.  She is still your niece - still family.  Your stable presence in her life can be a good thing in the long run.  Go to the wedding.  Eat, converse, dance.  Love on your family members.  Set a good example for how we treat others with grace.

 

[Chris in VA]

Aside from the living together thing, it seems what bothers you is that they are already married, and pretending that they are not.

 

I can see how that would be icky.

 

I do wish more folks would take advantage of the "blessing of a civil marriage" that is available in many denominations/churches. It's where the minister acknowledges that they are already married, but adds the church's blessing. You can still do all the wedding-y things without the element of deception that seems to be the rub for you.

 

Too bad they couldn't opt for that. 

 

I guess I'd just go and keep quiet, and teach my own kids a better way. And yeah, pray for them. 

[PrincessMommy]

"Part of being an adult is being happy for other people's generally positive life events even if they don't share our identical beliefs and values"

 

Right.  I agree.  Maybe part of it is a sadness that we don't share our beliefs.  She professed faith, and so did the boyfriend initially, but after they'd been together for awhile they abandoned that.  

 

Instead of looking at it like a farce - maybe look at is a completion of their commitment together.  I can understand that having a wedding after the wedding (especially if it was done secretly) is a bit over top and I'd probably be a bit annoyed by that aspect too.

[mom@shiloh]

I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental.  Bear with me, just trying to walk through my emotions on this and no, I'm not really sure I have the right attitude.  At this point it feels like they're saying, "Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families.  Come celebrate with us."  

 

 

[LucyStoner]

They are creating their own offshoot branch of the family tree. Their values don't need to be the same. But they are still on the family tree.

 

I've never known a family where there is complete agreement on religion or other weighty ideology across all branches of the tree.

 

I think it is good that you are exploring these feelings and hopefully can let go of the sadness in time to join the festivities with genuine happiness for them in your heart.

 

I agree the secretly already being married thing is lame and silly.

[ktgrok]

I get being against living together, and against premarital sex. But....wouldn't that make you even more excited that they are fixing it and getting married? Better late than never!!! I'd be thrilled that they decided to do "the right thing". I don't get your disapproval?

 

Oh...they are already married. Well, I would wish it wasn't secret, that seems silly and like lying, but wanting to have a big celebration later isn't uncommon. We got married overseas, and family couldn't make it. So we had a big celebration at our new house a month later. Celebrating a wedding/marriage seems like a good thing, right? I mean, if you are going to hold a grudge or be dissaproving about their premarital sex even AFTER they get married, why bother getting married? Should no one that had premarital sex get married? Or should no one attend or celebrate those weddings?

[ktgrok]

I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental.  Bear with me, just trying to walk through my emotions on this and no, I'm not really sure I have the right attitude.  At this point it feels like they're saying, "Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families.  Come celebrate with us."  

 

 

But, they aren't asking you to celebrate them rejecting everyone's values. They are asking you to celebrate their return to everyone's values!  Think Prodigal son!!!!!

[LucyStoner]

At this point it feels like they're saying, "Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families. Come celebrate with us."

As a rational being you have to see that this is more about you than them. Their wedding is not meant to be about them not sharing your values.

 

When I married a non-Catholic outside of the Catholic Church in a non-religious ceremony I was most certainly not asking my Catholic family to come and celebrate me not being a Catholic. When my husband married a Catholic girl he was not asking his decidedly Protestant family to come and dance on the grave of that in his life. We were asking our families to recognize and celebrate with us that we had found each other and were using that love and bond to create a whole new small family within a much larger extended family.

[Trish]

Is she disrespecting her OWN beliefs?

[mytwomonkeys]

If you can't be happy for them then don't go. I would not want someone at my wedding that was that unhappy about it. I think your niece getting married should be a celebration with friends and family rejoicing. If you can't do that, stay home.

[mytwomonkeys]

I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental. Bear with me, just trying to walk through my emotions on this and no, I'm not really sure I have the right attitude. At this point it feels like they're saying, "Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families. Come celebrate with us."

If you have to preface a statement with, "I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental..." -- chances are you are being harsh and judgmental.

[Hikin' Mama]

I share your beliefs about living together before marriage. However, this couple has decided to make a serious commitment to one another. That is what you are celebrating. I'm afraid that if we could only celebrate marriages in which the couple had remained pure before marriage, we would have few to celebrate. In fact, mine would have been one of those not worthy of celebration, as I had a child before marriage (by a man other than the one I married).

 

Because I believe in God's commands in the Bible, such as not having extramarital sex, I also believe in offering the same grace to others as He offered, and still offers, to me. So that is where I would be coming from in this situation.

[J-rap]

I think most definitely you can be happy for them!  Sure, it's not the way you would have done it, but if they're getting even just a little closer to the way you feel God desires us to live, then every step in the right direction is a good thing, no?

 

 

[marbel]

I have several nieces and nephews and some of them have done some pretty wild things, including a secret marriage.  I know a little of how you feel. I'd be happy that the marriage is coming out in the open and is being "finalized" so to speak (and as at least one pp has already said).   I pray for my nieces and nephews a lot.  Some of them have made dramatic changes for the good over the years.  You never know what's going to happen with people in the future.  Take heart!   Love them as best you can and be an example of grace.  We all need it.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Tess in the Burbs]

My sister got married without telling my parents but then had a wedding ceremony later that winter.  I never knew when I should send an anniversary card since I knew both dates ;-)  I suspect my dad might know and not care, but my mom would be living if she knew even now.  

 

Go and have a good time.  It's a celebration of their love and they are wanting others to share with them.  Just later than  you personally think it should happen.  Consider it a late reception :-)

[zoobie]

Do you check for virginity of the bride and groom before going to other weddings? Not living together does not equal not having sex. I'm not a professing Christian now, but when I went to church, there was a whole lot more to the faith than sex. And it was pretty clear that everyone sins and you were supposed to keep your judgment out of other people's lives and focused wholly on your own.

 

If the couple is operating a kitten/orphan murdering brothel combo and being secretly married was key to the dastardly operation, I could understand feeling like they're rejecting their family's values. But if they're perfectly lovely, grown adults who likely had premarital sex before they got married in a civil ceremony, and now they're having a private ceremony to celebrate with their family, and you're pissed that they chose a different path than you, then yes, you should get over it and go to the wedding. Because love is worth celebrating. If you're going to be sour faced and have a judgmental heart, stay home so your negative energy doesn't dampen their day.

[mom@shiloh]

I have several nieces and nephews and some of them have done some pretty wild things, including a secret marriage.  I know a little of how you feel. I'd be happy that the marriage is coming out in the open and is being "finalized" so to speak (and as at least one pp has already said).   I pray for my nieces and nephews a lot.  Some of them have made dramatic changes for the good over the years.  You never know what's going to happen with people in the future.  Take heart!   Love them as best you can and be an example of grace.  We all need it.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Thank you.  This is helpful.  I know that's the way I should be feeling about it.  I wish that I didn't know that they were already secretly married.  I wouldn't be opposed to a public celebration after the fact if they were being up-front that this is what it is.  

[Cera]

I wouldn't have any issue with the fact that they have been living together but the lying about already being married would bother me.  Why not call it what it is...a vow renewal, celebration of their marriage, etc.  Just don't call it a wedding.  That would bug me.

 

 

eta:  And I'm looking at it from a nonreligious perspective.  I just don't like lying.

[mom@shiloh]

If you have to preface a statement with, "I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental..." -- chances are you are being harsh and judgmental.

 

Sheesh people, read the rest of the sentence.  I already admitted that my attitude here needs work.

[SKL]

I would do what would make your brother most happy.

[FaithManor]

I agree with much of what everyone else has said. So I'll just add this. Most conservative

Christians, a term you used to describe yourself, believe in two things a. Living your life with grace and

mercy so others see Jesus in you and b. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you... if you

were to ever experience a fall from grace, I would imagine you would want others to respond with mercy

and compassion.

 

Jesus had dinner with lepers and prostitutes. He drafted a member of the ancient IRS...a person most

despised by the community...me thinks that the wedding, nothing more than a formality with dinner, is a

no brainer.

 

Now that being said, if you have already burned a bridge with this niece and there is animosity, don't

go and ruin their day. Buy them something nice with a "please forgive me for my harsh words" note, a

congratulations we love you message, and leave that ball in their court.

 

I have only once not attended a family wedding in protest and that was of a cousin and it had to do with

my legal conscience...she married a slime that was on parole for something vile and there was every

reason to believe her children from a previous relationship would be victimized. I couldn't

physically watch this party go on. But, I didn't actually make a stink about it, just RSVP 'd our regrets

and then bought her some groceries and things for the children whenhe was arrested a few months later.

 

I had burned that bridge with her - and believe me the temptation torewm her out before the wedding for

her collosal stupidity was definitely there - she might not have accepted the help which the children

desperately needed.

 

Faith

[Ellie]

I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental.  Bear with me, just trying to walk through my emotions on this and no, I'm not really sure I have the right attitude.  At this point it feels like they're saying, "Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families.  Come celebrate with us."  

 

:grouphug:

 

Or "Woohoo! We've been getting all the benefits of being married without actually having to, you know, get married, and now we get to have gifts and a party, too!"

[mytwomonkeys]

Sheesh people, read the rest of the sentence.  I already admitted that my attitude here needs work.

 

 

I did read all of your posts.  The thing is, this is your niece.  Loving her exactly where she is will not compromise where you are.  I don't condone living together before marriage or premarital sex either.  

 

One of my dearest friends is about to be a grandmother for the first time. Her daughter (and the boyfriend) live in my friend's house unmarried and the girl is now pregnant. She is only 19 & her husband to be is a devout athiest.  Really, there are things I could think, say, or do that would be unsupportive. But that just isn't what my friend or her daughter need. I can meet them right where they are with genuine love and support, and in no way does that compromise who I am.

 

That's all I mean.

[suzybluecheese]

Sheesh people, read the rest of the sentence.  I already admitted that my attitude here needs work.

 

So maybe some people on here are being a little harsh and judgmental to someone who sees the error of her attitude and is trying to change it?

[KrissiK]

I understand how you feel. And it puts you in a bind. I've been there on several occasions. However, if you make a stand like this, it probably won't change her mind ( you don't want her to, anyhow. She is getting married as opposed to continuing to just live together) and it would probably damage your relationship. And relationship is the most important thing. I knew a man once who took a very strong stance against divorce. So much so that when a couple of his kids happened to get divorced (one because of terrible abuse) he cut them off. And what did that accomplish, besides driving a wedge in his family? I don't think going to this wedding would say you condone living together, it would say that you love your niece.

[gardenmom5]

there is a difference between being excited and being supportive.

if they've already been secretly married - they aren't currently "living in sin", no matter what anyone else in the family thinks.  technically - it's a renewal of vows.

to look for the positive in this - maybe they've reached the point they feel more committed to each other and want their family to see they are ready to show they've reached that point.

 

or you could be cynical and look at it as they just want a big fancy party and presents and don't care about marriage per se.

 

whatever you do - follow thumper's advice.  if you can't say nothin' nice, don't say nothin' at all.

[mom@shiloh]

But you said you don't mean to be harsh and judgmental.  If this is not you being harsh and judgmental, I'm wondering what that looks like.  Must be scary.  LOL

 

Sorry.  I get being disappointed that people do stuff you don't agree with.  But it is what it is.  If this is something sinful or hurtful in your family's view then why don't they get a chance to rectify the situation?  Is it all over for them?  They can't do anything about it?  KWIM?

 

Without verbal inflections and facial cues, I guess that didn't come across the way it was in my mind.  I just object to only taking part of my sentence.  No, I DON"T mean to be harsh and judgmental, yet I admit to that being the attitude I'm struggling with.  

 

For those who remind me that we all need grace -- thank you.  That's what I needed to hear.  

[gardenmom5]

 My brother made a really bad decision in his wife and everyone but him knew it and many of us tried to talk to him.  I went to their wedding because I love my brother.  They are now in the process of getting a divorce which the only surprising thing is that they lasted a year or 2 longer than we thought they would.  (And no their not making it wasn't because of our views on her, she has many many problems.)

keeping the door open would have made it emotionally easier for him to admit he made a mistake.  he wouldn't have had the fear of hearing "I told you so"s.

[Anne in CA]

IME, wedding where the "bride" and "groom" were already married tend to be stressful for everyone.(And as a caterer I have gone to a LOT of weddings) If you think you are not excited, other people feel that way too. Her parents are spending a lot of money and time on a ceremony and celebration that is important to them for whatever reasons, and I think honoring that is the Christian thing to do. Please go with a sweet attitude, because I would bet that this will be a stressful day for all the people involved and your behavior will be remembered for years, so you want to be remembered as the good one who just came, loved, enjoyed and brought happiness.

[zoobie]

The secret civil wedding is odd (and how did you get put in that position? Was someone gossiping and breaking the couple's trust?), but I've had a few friends get married in a civil ceremony for practical reasons and celebrate it (or bless it?) in a religious ceremony later. I've never heard anyone complaining the church wedding was a fraud. One couple--the husband was in the military and got deployed to a risky situation before their planned church ceremony. They got married in a private, civil ceremony and postponed the church wedding until he returned. It was a beautiful wedding, and the bride's mom died very unexpectedly a couple of months later. The bride thought the wedding hoopla was silly but did it for her mom, and she has said so many times that she's so happy she did it because of the time she got to spend with her mom, planning and celebrating. My friend's brother was diagnosed with Hodgkin's and got married in a civil ceremony before starting treatment, then celebrated with a church ceremony after he completed it. Lots of couples who have destination weddings get married in a civil ceremony first to ensure legality. The church ceremony is just that--a *ceremony*--a formal event to celebrate some occasion. Do we have to know every couple's reasoning to judge whether this church wedding is more worthy than others? That's a lot of private business being exposed and a lot judgment being passed around! I don't understand why this wedding ceremony would be any more of a "gift grab" than any other wedding. I know my parents spent more on my wedding (church ceremony, important to them, torture to me) than we received in gifts, so if that's what this couple is doing, they could be sadly disappointed. Whatever their reasonings for having had a *private* civil ceremony earlier, they are now having a *public* ceremony to celebrate their union. If you love them, go and be happy. Eat some dry chicken and overly sweet cake. Hug and kiss your relatives and friends. If you think it's a gift grab, you can always stiff them. But it's so much better than being invited to a funeral!

[suzybluecheese]

:grouphug:

 

Or "Woohoo! We've been getting all the benefits of being married without actually having to, you know, get married, and now we get to have gifts and a party, too!"

 

Wouldn't Miss Manners say that gifts should be appreciated, but never expected?  If you think a couple is doing it for the gifts, just give them a nice card.

 

As for the party. I'm happy any time there's a reason to eat cake.

[Tammyla]

They are already married, so this is more of a wedding party than getting married. 

 

It wouldn't bug me, but I wouldn't get all excited and give a super gift to a couple that had been together 5 years vs. a couple setting up their first household.

[Catherine]

I don't mean to be harsh or judgmental.  Bear with me, just trying to walk through my emotions on this and no, I'm not really sure I have the right attitude.  At this point it feels like they're saying, "Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families.  Come celebrate with us."

I don't understand how their choice to live together is a rejection of everything that is important to their families.

 

It sounds like you are saying that virgin marriage is "everything that is important" to your family-do you really mean that? Are your beliefs totally based on this one principle? Or would it be OK with you if they pretended they were virgins, but weren't, and got married with all the trappings?

 

I'm asking honestly. Christianity is a bigger idea than this, IMO.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

"Woo-hoo, we've rejected everything that is important to our families.  Come celebrate with us."  

 

That kinda has echoes of old-timey marriages that were all about uniting families for political gain, increasing fortunes, adding another castle to the collection -- when marriage was about power, not love.

 

I can appreciate parents wishing children to carry on in certain beliefs they were exposed to growing up, but it's unrealistic to assume that will, or even should, always happen.  Would the discomfort be similar if the couple was mixed-race, or mixed-faith, or no faith, or same sex?  Any of those combinations have, and unfortunately will still upset some parents, which is too bad.

 

Love has little in common with continuing an ideological legacy.

 

 

Edit -- Go watch The Birdcage.

[momto10blessings]

I haven't read the other replies, but I would not judge them whether you think they are sinning or not. Their sins are really none of your business, that is for them to work out and deal with.

[Danestress]

These "kids" are actually adults.  They should not have to pretend to agree with their parents on all matters in order to have their marriage celebrated.  No one who doesn't want to come should have to either.  Adults make their own decisions about getting married, how and when, and adults make decisions about accepting or not accepting invitations to those weddings.

 

As people get married, that's a pretty good time for them to figure out how they want to function as a couple and what things they value and beliefs they hold.  It's a great time to feel the personal freedom to reject what their parents say is true and right.  Even without a marriage, people don't always agree.

 

As an adult, I don't like how it feels when I start worrying about what my Mother would think about something I do or say,  That is an annoying burden.  As the mother of an adult, of course I want to see my child be a good person and conduct himself honorably.  And in a way, even in the smaller things, I stubbornly wish he agreed with me.  But if he doesn't, he doesn't. I want an honest relationship with him more than I want him to fake agreement with me, and I think it is very healthy for him and his wife to explore their OWN values and beliefs without being tied to mine (even though I think mine are right, lol).  It's probably part of being a healthy adult.

 

Think about it this way. All of the first Christians had to reject some of what they had been told by their parents growing up.  Jesus recognized on a number of occasions that what he called people to might be difficult for their families.  Can you imagine if Paul and felt obligated to publically spout the beliefs and ideas his parents had held, lest they have their feelings hurt or be mad at him?

 

 

 

 

[Ellie]

Wouldn't Miss Manners say that gifts should be appreciated, but never expected?  If you think a couple is doing it for the gifts, just give them a nice card.

 

As for the party. I'm happy any time there's a reason to eat cake.

 

Yes, that is exactly what Miss Manners says. :-)

 

I, too, would go to the wedding and be all smiley-face, because if I loved my brother and his daughter, I would want to be able to stay in their lives, even if in my heart of hearts I had misgivings about the whole timing and whatnot.

[PrairieSong]

Are you sure the church wedding is your niece's attempt to be disrespectful toward her parents and their faith which apparently she does not share? Maybe she's just trying to make them happy. Maybe she and her fiancée just want to celebrate their marriage with their friends and family, who were obviously not part of the secret, civil marriage.

 

I'd go and smile and be pleasant, and bring a gift or at least a card with money. That's what I did when my niece who had been living with her boyfriend for several years got married. Their 3-year-old daughter was the flower girl. If I had stayed away, the only thing that would have been accomplished would have been hurt feelings. Now they are happily married and have two little girls. We have a good relationship with them.

 

Give them your love and support. At least that's what I would do.

[Ellie]

I haven't read the other replies, but I would not judge them whether you think they are sinning or not. Their sins are really none of your business, that is for them to work out and deal with.

 

If people claim to be Christians and live together without being married, then it is sin. That is not judgmental.

 

If people don't claim to be Christians, and they live together without being married, it isn't sin. I don't think it's a good idea, but I don't expect non-Christians to follow what I understand to be God's "requirements" for His children.

 

In either case, it feels strange, not right, to me for people to live together for a number of years as if they were married, and *then* to have a big wedding. A nice celebration, small, informal get-together, yes; a big wedding in the church with the big reception and wedding cake and all that, no. That isn't judgmental, either. It would be bad form on my part to discuss it with anyone IRL other than Mr. Ellie, but I might come over here where I could put my thoughts in writing and sort of chew them over with my boardies. :-)