17/18yo mixed-sex trip?

[Laura Corin]

Many of Calvin's friends are girls.  He was invited to join a group of them for a week in a Highland cottage before they all dive into their final work towards IB exams.  There will be no parents along.

 

One or more of the other sets of parents is not happy with a boy joining the girls, so he has been asked not to come.  He's very sad but has accepted the situation.  I have also accepted it and will not be making any comments to the other parents.  His school reports describe Calvin as 'respectful', 'mature' and 'polite', so I don't think that the parents are objecting to him individually, but to his being a boy.  FWIW, I'm really proud of him for the way he can treat girls as friends.  

 

All the pupils will be 17 or 18 at the time and will be going away to university within six months after the trip.  

 

If you would allow such a trip at all, would you allow a mixed trip?  Why or why not?

 

ETA: although this is not relevant to any of the pupils' intentions, for the sake of not side-tracking the discussion: the age of consent for sexual relations in Scotland is 16, and there is no over-18-under-18 relations law.  

 

One is legally an adult here at 18, so there will be legal adults present.

 

L

[Melissa in Australia]

To tell you the truth I Would be more concerned with  overdrinking ( mostly) and  drug use (possibly)

[Laura Corin]

To tell you the truth I Would be more concerned with  overdrinking ( mostly) and  drug use (possibly)

 

Three boys have just been sent away from the school for smoking weed, so I'm sure that's something to consider.  This particular group is more likely to get drunk.

 

L

[Heather in Neverland]

I would not allow my child to go to a mixed-gender trip without chaperones for a multitude of reasons.

[Laura Corin]

I would not allow my child to go to a mixed-gender trip without chaperones for a multitude of reasons.

 

Would that be the same after s/he has left home to go to university?

 

L

[Heather in Neverland]

Would that be the same after s/he has left home to go to university?

 

L

Yes if I am still the one supporting him. He might legally be an adult at 18yo but until he is supporting himself, I expect him to abide by our family's values. If he decides to live by a different set of values when he is older, that is his decision but until he is truly a self-supporting adult, he will need to honor our boundaries.

[Melissa in Australia]

Would that be the same after s/he has left home to go to university?

 

L

well this is why I voted other.

 

 3 years ago I would have said no way.

 But my oldest ( at 17) had to shift 400 km away to go to university. He went backpacking with some uni students around South Africa last summer (18). He is living on campus which is made up of mostly between 18-23 year olds, Mixed genders.

[Tress]

To tell you the truth I Would be more concerned with overdrinking ( mostly) and drug use (possibly)

This would be my greatest concern.

 

If the parents of the girls are this concerned about a mixed-sex trip, they should arrange for some of the adults to accompany the girls. Because there is nothing to prevent the girls from inviting a couple of local guys into their cottage.

 

I'm sorry Calvin can't go on the trip. I would not have had a problem with him being present.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I would allow it.  

[Lanny]

 

I am sad for Calvin. Especially if the invitation from the girls was unanimous. However, there should probably, IMHO, be an Adult (by that I mean someone much older than 18) along with the group. I would suggest that, whether it is all girls, all boys, or mixed. I'm trying to think how we would look at this, if DD was one of the girls going to the cottage.

 

Last year, TTUISD had a Summer Camp. I believe most or all of the students who went were from Brazil. We hope they will have more Summer Camps in the future and yes, we want to send DD. I believe they had a number of Adults, to accompany that “mixed sex†group of teenagers.

 

This is certainly much different than when 3 people from a web forum I participate in came up from Lima, Peru, to Bogota, Colombia, for a concert, in May 2009. They stayed in the same little hotel I stayed in. There were 2 married men and a woman. But, they are all adults (well over 18) and there were 3 beds in the room. They didn't need a Chaperone, but IMHO, Calvin's friends do...

[Joules]

I would care more about the character of the people along than their gender.  I would just want to know they'd be safe.  (I'm all for the "designated brain" concept, a bit like designated driver, except one person stays sober each night to make sure no one does anything stupid, even if there is no car involved.) 

They are the age most of the kids were that moved into the freshman dorm when I was in college.  I just don't see a magic dichotomy when you graduate.  It's more of a gradual spreading of wings.  It's best to have early unchaperoned events with friends you trust rather than strangers.

 

BTW I feel just awful for Calvin.  Lately in many of our events, ds has been the only male.  I can already see this being an issue for us someday.

[AdventureMoms]

Well I attended similar mixed group outings as an older teen. With my particular group there was not a lot of drinking or any drug use. There was some sex I'm sure, but behind closed doors and between established already sexually active couples. Removing the boys would not have kept any of the girls virgins, kwim? Wouldn't really even stopped all the sex.

 

I don't see why a young man in a group of young women is a huge problem if the women are comfortable with him. Is he the only male invited?

[Pawz4me]

Yes, I would probably allow it.

 

Our oldest DS will be 18 in November.  In June following high school graduation he's planning on going to the beach with a group of boys.  They'll be renting a house and very close by a group of girls from their high school will be renting another house.  The trip is our graduation gift to him.  While not technically a mixed trip since they'll have different houses, it's pretty much the same thing for all intents and purposes, I think.

 

But you know -- two months after that they'll all go off to college somewhere, and there sure won't be supervision in the dorms or anywhere else (I can't say "adult supervision" since they all ARE adults legally by then).

 

So I guess my thinking is that sooner or later you have to cut the cord, let them grow up and accept the fact that legally they're now responsible for themselves.  That's the point where you take a deep breath, hope and pray that you've raised them right, and let them go.

[Carrie12345]

I voted "other". It would likely depend on how well I knew the majority of the kids.

 

Most places in the US won't rent anything (rooms, houses, *cars*...) to anyone under 20-something because the risk of damage is too high with teens and young adults.

[DawnM]

No.  And if it is a girls' trip and some girls can't come because he is going, I would feel bad letting him go to the detriment of the others.  There will be plenty of things to do in mixed company once he is off to college or on his own.

 

Just my .02

[Caroline]

I am sorry Calvin was treated like that.

 

I voted yes. Mine went camping with a group the summer before they all went away to college. He is now away at college. He could have a gaggle of women in his dorm room every night, I suppose. He is his own mature person, and I don't control him.

[Pawz4me]

Most places in the US won't rent anything (rooms, houses, *cars*...) to anyone under 20-something because the risk of damage is too high with teens and young adults.

 

We're in North Carolina.  Almost everybody here knows somebody who has a beach house or condo.  So it's not hard at all to find a place.

[J-rap]

My first reaction was no, but really, it depends very much on the maturity and character of the group involved. When one of my daughters was a senior in high school, she and her pals went camping for a long weekend, and it was a mixed group. I knew this group well, knew their character, knew there wouldn't be any drinking or dumb stuff. Girls in one tent, boys in the other. And honestly, I felt more comfortable knowing there would be boys around. I've also had a daughter who when 19, traveled for three months with mixed genders, staying in the same hostel rooms, etc. Again, I felt safer knowing she was traveling with some young men (especially in the areas where they were traveling). This was a group that was very respectful of each other, there was no drunken parties or anything of that sort! It was a very sweet group of young people.

 

So, it really depends. If it's a group whose character or actions I questioned, then I don't think a mixed crowd is a very smart idea at all. But, if I questioned the character or actions of that group, I wouldn't let my son OR my daughter go, mixed group or not.

[Mandamom]

I'm not sure.

 

I was 17 when i graduated high school (late birthday) and for our senior week (where most/many of the students in the state head down to the beach for a week) a group of us decided to head down to Assateague Island and camp for the week. (Away from the all the crazy seniors.) We had been very good friends before and more likely to read too much than do anything else. There were girls and boys tents. We had a blast reading, talking good books and enjoying the island. One day we drove over to the mainland where everyone else was for dinner but otherwise we just hung out together. No sex, no drugs, no alcohol. It is typical that those 3 happen on the mainland where the seniors continue to go each and every year. Looking back I'm amazed that my parents let me go. I went off to college 2 months later. 

 

I now have a 13 year old 8th grader and need to start considering what freedoms she will have as a high schooler. Currently her focus is gymnastics and not boys her requests have been easy. 

 

My stepsons have always been given more freedom by my dh and their biomom than I sometimes am comfortable with, as legal adults -- well 1 in 1 month), they have both made good choices and have turned into capable men. 

 

I guess my instinct would be to say no to the trip  because I tend to be fairly conservative in parenting, I could easily find myself saying yes depending on the additional circumstances given my past. 

 

 

 

[Danestress]

L

We're in North Carolina. Almost everybody here knows somebody who has a beach house or condo. So it's not hard at all to find a place.

Agreed. Kids here have no trouble finding places I rent and borrow. It is a regular part of life.

[Carrie12345]

L

Agreed. Kids here have no trouble finding places I rent and borrow. It is a regular part of life.

Well that's frustrating, lol.

When we were a young family, I had to get my parents to sign the rental leases in NJ, PA, and GA b/c dh and I didn't meet the owners' age requirement.

Here in the Poconos, owners typically set an age somewhere between 21 and 25. Even then, they're often busy doing repairs and extra cleaning.

 

I don't hear much from parent-owners, but I'm guessing that's because their kids either have more respect for their parents' property, or it just doesn't get talked about if it does happen.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I voted "other".  It would depend.  It would depend on how well I knew all of the kids.  Are any of the kids a couple?  Would any of the kids bring alcohol or drugs? Do I know the other parents well enough to get in contact with them if anything happens (I don't mean if you're friends with them, just have contact info). 

 

At that age, yes, they will be off to college soon and will be independent, but that is also the age kids don't seem to realize that things can get out of hand quickly.  It doesn't take much. (FWIW, even if it was just a large group of girls, I would still have concerns).

 

If I was the parent of a girl, and a boy was going that I didn't know, I might object. But if it was only 1 boy, I might try and take the time to find out more about him.  Only 1 boy seems like less of an issue than 2 or 3.  

 

I'm sorry Calvin is missing out.  

[MomtoCandJ]

I would allow it if this was with an established group friends.

[regentrude]

I would have no problem. Those young people will be away at a mixed sex university in a few months anyway.

I did mixed trips when I was a teenager and when I was in college. Nobody would have expected chaperones to accompany private trips of 16 year olds. I never had a problem with my male trip mates overstepping boundaries.

 

Btw, at this day and age, people should be well aware that sexual experimentation can happen between people of the same gender, if that is what they are concerned about.

And if they are worried about drugs or drinking: it does not take a guy to get girls in trouble with that.

 

 

I am sorry for your son.

I hate the message society sends that (young) men are not trustworthy and are unable to control their impulses.

[NotSoObvious]

I would probably allow it, and I certainly did mixed overnights at that age, BUT it would 100% depend on the kids going.

[Chris in VA]

No for me--drinking and drugs would be my major concern. They lower inhibitions, too.

 

But I'm sorry he can't go. Hopefully there will be lots of other fun times ahead. 

 

ETA: Want to add, I wouldn't let my teen go on a trip with friends and no chaperones before college, mixed sex or not, honestly. 

[Guest submarines]

I would allow it if this was with an established group friends.

 

This. An established group of friends is very different than a random mixed group. 

 

My kids are younger. In the future, if it were a random group, I'd like to think that I'd raise above the "allow / not allow" logic for an almost adult "child".

 

ETA: if it were a random group, I'd be as concerned for one boy in a group of girls. A boy's reputation can easily be ruined, never mind any legal issues. 

[Laura Corin]

I would allow it if this was with an established group friends.

 

It's an established group of friends.

 

L

[Wheres Toto]

I would allow it and did with my oldest when she was in high school.  She was part of a group of friends, boys and girls, that hung out together all the time.  There were a few dating relationships among the group but mostly they were just friends.  I knew all the kids because I was one of the few parents willing, and with a big enough vehicle, to drive them around.

[MomtoCandJ]

I don't see an issue then, but that's me.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I'd be fine with it.

[Χά�ων]

I would allow it.

[Truscifi]

In this situation, with a responsible ds and an established group of friends soon to be off living on their own at university anyway, I would have no problem with it. 

 

I'm sorry Calvin won't get to go.  I hope he doesn't take it as a personal judgment.  It is just as possible the parents who objected don't trust their daughter as that they don't trust your son.

[Spryte]

From what you've described - I'd allow it, too.  It's a group of friends, and Calvin just happens to be a guy.

[Haiku]

I would allow it. Young adults that age need to be mature enough to handle a situation like this.

[LucyStoner]

I would allow it. I travelled and camped in mixed groups at that age and no one behaved inappropriately. People who did weren't invited.

[Renee in NC]

I would allow it.  I don't assume that a male present = sex.

[Ipsey]

I would allow it with an established group. I voted #2, just to have some idea what the kids had in mind. 

I went on mixed trips. No biggie.

 

[bolt.]

I think I'd allow some overnight unsupervised mixed gender activities... But not quite the 'having a blast at a cottage alone for a week' variety. I'd be fine with camping trips or going to an event out of town, or something... But the idea of just hanging out for fun, it sounds like trouble.

 

But I don't even know if we'd be in the dynamic of allowing/not by that point. Probably not, really. It's hard to say.

[Jenny in Florida]

My response to this may be colored by my own understanding of my kids' friends. But if the concern is preventing the kids from engaging in sexual acts, I feel I must point out the obvious fact that a single-gender group does not guarantee that things will remain chaste.

 

We have hosted several over-night get-togethers with my son's friends over the last few years. The group is made up primarily of (biological) males, most of whom identify as straight. However, there is one who is transgendered, biologically female but identifies as male. And we often have a couple of girls, including one who was at the time she stayed over officially dating the transgendered kiddo.

 

So, I ask those who are concerned with keeping groups "safe" by requiring all participants to be the same gender, how would you handle the group I've described?

 

What we do is supervise, albeit subtly. I stay in the next room, out of the way but quietly present, for as long as I can stay awake. And then my daughter, who is older that the rest of the group by two or three years and now officially an adult but treated as the unofficial big sister of the younger kids, hangs out with them until morning.

 

But the kids we're hosting are also younger than Calvin and his friends. Honestly, some of them are legally adults, and all of them are within a few months of having to function as adults in college. I can't imagine forbidding them to have this time together.

[KungFuPanda]

I voted other. I don't see 'allow' coming into play. I might not PAY for it, but it seems silly to try and micromanage people who will be on their own in five minutes. What's the point in putting your child on track to graduate and leave home at 17 if not to give them a jump on adulthood?

 

I went to basic training with 17-18 year olds.

[Orthodox6]

 "No" from me. 

 

As my father used to say to me when I was a young driver:  "I trust you just fine.  It is the other drivers on the road whom I do not trust." 

[In The Great White North]

 

But not quite the 'having a blast at a cottage alone for a week' variety. I'd be fine with camping trips or going to an event out of town, or something... But the idea of just hanging out for fun, it sounds like trouble.

 

 

ETA: Want to add, I wouldn't let my teen go on a trip with friends and no chaperones before college, mixed sex or not, honestly.

 

I'd be unlikely to allow, let alone pay for, this trip, whether Calvin came along or not.

 

 

I went to basic training with 17-18 year olds.

 

As I remember it, basic training was heavily chaperoned and had a purpose for every waking moment.  Not much time to "hang out" and get into trouble.

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I'd be unlikely to allow, let alone pay for, this trip, whether Calvin came along or not.

 

 

As I remember it, basic training was heavily chaperoned and had a purpose for every waking moment. Not much time to "hang out" and get into trouble.

True, but after a few weeks, those same late-teen-aged people moved on to AIT where there was a precipitous drop in supervision. A few weeks or months don't make that much of a difference in this, or the OP's scenario, and that was my whole point. These kids are as ''raised' as they're going to get and last minute supervision won't alter their problem-solving skills this late in the game.

[Tap]

Wow, I am really stumped on this one.  

 

I have a 19yo son and a 14yo daughter.

 

My gut says that t I would want them to graduate high school first before they are making co-ed trips But then I am not one for arbitrary rules so it makes me question why my gut and my brain are at odds.  The fact that ds had already finished 2 years of college before he was 18, especially makes me question my gut instinct.  I took co ed trips with my boyfriend starting at 16 (long story) and while yes, there was sex and champagne, we were also responsible and respectful teens. Our personalities and morals didn't magically change just because an adult was or wasn't around.  

 

I am okay with my kids growing up at their own pace, so I think I would talk my gut into letting go.  

 

Since someone else is uncomfortable, then I would ask my son to step out of the trip, but it wouldn't really be fair to him.  I doubt anyone is asking if any of the girls are lesbians.  Boys and girls are necessarily the only ones seeking off for some private time.  

 

 

If it was my 17 daughter and a group of guys....hmmmmm.  It may be harder to talk my gut into that one.  LOL 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm wondering if there might be some opportunity for compromise? Could Calvin and another male friend find a place to stay nearby but not "with" the girls, for example? They could get together and hang out during socially appropriate hours, but go to neutral, gender-defined spaces at night? Would an arrangement like that make the objecting parents more comfortable? (I mean, it's not like these girls aren't going to see a male human being while they are on this trip, right? They won't be completely isolated in their single-gender tower for a week, even if Calvin isn't around?)

[Incognito]

Ah, to be a kid again.  When I was 18 I told my parents I was going on a trip with a group of guys...  My poor parents.

 

Would I want to allow it?  Well, a group like you are describing I would also be more concerned about drugs/alcohol.  But really, sex, drugs or alcohol are either a part of something the kids will do or not, I don't think one weekend of their lives is going to be that different from others.

 

 

[Camelfeet]

I'd allow.  18 is an adult to me.  

 

 

[madteaparty]

I am sorry for your son, and I am really resentful in general of society making boys into big bad dangers to protect girls against. FWIW, I have both a son and a daughter.

I would of course permit my child to go, if he was the only boy I would advise him generally about "optics" of the situation (just because I know my son, and like you say about yours, I would have no issues regarding actual behaviour). I would have a mild worry about, say, drinking and driving, but then I would have that worry anytime they left my doorstep at that age.

I am sorry.

[Laura Corin]

I am sorry for your son, and I am really resentful in general of society making boys into big bad dangers to protect girls against. FWIW, I have both a son and a daughter.

I would of course permit my child to go, if he was the only boy I would advise him generally about "optics" of the situation (just because I know my son, and like you say about yours, I would have no issues regarding actual behaviour). I would have a mild worry about, say, drinking and driving, but then I would have that worry anytime they left my doorstep at that age.

I am sorry.

 

Thanks.  I don't think any of them can drive - you can't even start learning until you are 17.

 

L