REALLY shy kids at New Year's Eve Party

[AndyJoy]

Apparently not all PS kids are perfectly socialized :)

 

We went to a New Year's Eve party tonight with DS (3). We were told there would be other kids there, so we brought a bucket of LEGO bricks (and his Mobigo in case no other kids showed). A 7-year-old girl and 5-year-old boy arrived and DS was so excited! He ran up to them and said, "My name is Keaton! What's you name? You want to play LEGOs?" They wouldn't even say hi! After they had an hour to "warm up" they still wouldn't respond to anything. Their mom let them hang out in a back room to watch TV and play Nintendo DS. The boy eventually said, "Yes," when I asked him if he was in kindergarten and, "Seven," when I asked the girl how old she was, but that was it. She nodded no when I asked if she was in 2nd grade and yes when I asked if she was in 1st grade. Keaton was so disappointed. He kept saying, "Her won't talk to me!" Their mom said they aren't usually that shy and I found it really odd that she didn't expect them to acknowledge DS with a "Hello," and "No thank you," to his requests to play with LEGOs at least! It was very strange to spend 3.5 hours with kids who literally wouldn't say a word! They wouldn't even respond to her questions about whether they wanted a drink with more than a nod.

 

My kid doesn't have a shy bone in his body, so social coaching with him is mostly explaining about personal space and not hugging/hand-holding an uncomfortable random 5-year-old you played with for 5 minutes on the playground. Is it unreasonable to expect a somewhat shy (but not typically very shy) kid to at least say hello to a new kid (who is much younger, and thus not really a "threat")?

[Lucy in Australia]

All 3 of my kids were quite shy, but knew they had to say basic "hellos" & "thank yous" by age 3. Also, they were never shy with other kids, just adults. I don't think shyness was those kids' problem; sounds more like they were never taught how to be considerate to younger kids.

[Arcadia]

Their mom said they aren't usually that shy ...

 

Sometimes mums say that because they feel awkward about their kid's shyness. I have one that have traits of selective mutism and would not talk to strangers (even kids). He also gets very suspicious when anyone ask him questions, other than teachers asking academic questions. The other would run to me and hubby and ask if its okay to talk/play with the "requesting" kid.

 

Is it unreasonable to expect a somewhat shy (but not typically very shy) kid to at least say hello to a new kid (who is much younger, and thus not really a "threat")?

 

My neighbor's kids are a mixed of private school, public school and homeschooled. Most would not talk to strangers even if the strangers are kids their age. They are not shy though. Also most would look to their parents before answering things like which grade they are in or what school they attend. Maybe my neighborhood is generally more wary about privacy.

 

Another thing that might play a part is that the 7 and 5 year old are siblings. My boys are a year apart and prefer to stick together and talk when attending public events.

 

3.5 hrs of silence is pretty long though

[sparrow]

Apparently not all PS kids are perfectly socialized :)

 

We went to a New Year's Eve party tonight with DS (3). We were told there would be other kids there, so we brought a bucket of LEGO bricks (and his Mobigo in case no other kids showed). A 7-year-old girl and 5-year-old boy arrived and DS was so excited! He ran up to them and said, "My name is Keaton! What's you name? You want to play LEGOs?" They wouldn't even say hi! After they had an hour to "warm up" they still wouldn't respond to anything. Their mom let them hang out in a back room to watch TV and play Nintendo DS. The boy eventually said, "Yes," when I asked him if he was in kindergarten and, "Seven," when I asked the girl how old she was, but that was it. She nodded no when I asked if she was in 2nd grade and yes when I asked if she was in 1st grade. Keaton was so disappointed. He kept saying, "Her won't talk to me!" Their mom said they aren't usually that shy and I found it really odd that she didn't expect them to acknowledge DS with a "Hello," and "No thank you," to his requests to play with LEGOs at least! It was very strange to spend 3.5 hours with kids who literally wouldn't say a word! They wouldn't even respond to her questions about whether they wanted a drink with more than a nod.

 

My kid doesn't have a shy bone in his body, so social coaching with him is mostly explaining about personal space and not hugging/hand-holding an uncomfortable random 5-year-old you played with for 5 minutes on the playground. Is it unreasonable to expect a somewhat shy (but not typically very shy) kid to at least say hello to a new kid (who is much younger, and thus not really a "threat")?

 

There's a good chance my formerly shy dd would not even have left my side long enough to hang out in a back room at that age. Yeah, it was bad. She may peek out for a "Hi", but not every time.

 

It's been discussed here before, but 9 seems to be the magic age for shy kids to come out of the cocoon. My dd is quite a social butterfly now, but back then, I could definitely see the possibility of a quiet 3.5 hours.

[Samiam]

Didn't sound like a big deal. A party full of adults, a strange woman asking questions, a toddler asking them to play...eh, wouldn't expect much more, they are young children and thus still grasping the social etiquette world we adults seem to expect. The whole judge not lest you be judged thing goes all ways.

[jujsky]

The shy thing, no. I don't think that's weird. Some kids are like that, and if you throw them into a situation where they're at a party with a bunch of strangers, I can see it. Your son is 3 so there is a bit of an age difference. My kids tend to look at anyone under 4 or 5 as a baby (though they will make an effort to talk/play with them). The mom not making her children respond -- that's weird. Shy or not, manners count for something. I would have coached them to respond politely, even if it was just a "No thank you." It's rude not to acknowledge someone when they're speaking to you.

[MistyMountain]

My kids are a little shy but at parties they can be really shy. My older 2 are very sensitive to noise and just get a little overwhelmed when there are a lot of people they don't know ad noise. I do encourage them to say hi but I don't force it or make them feel bad. My oldest is getting much better with time and warms up much faster but she doesn't like being put on the spot. My 4 year old is especially sensitive to noise and crowds and he acts very different depending on where we are at and how loud it is and how many people are there.

[lynn]

My youngest 2 are very shy. They warm up after a while but at 5 and 7 my son just would have stared and barely answered in most situations. My dd is 7 now and she is getting better will still signals me to answer for her sometimes.

[Reya]

That would not have been acceptable behavior for my AUTISTIC brother by seven. He would have been required to respond to the child's attempts to engage him.

 

I have no sympathy and think the parents are raising their children badly. Shy or not, common courtesy is common courtesy.

[AndyJoy]

Didn't sound like a big deal. A party full of adults, a strange woman asking questions, a toddler asking them to play...eh, wouldn't expect much more, they are young children and thus still grasping the social etiquette world we adults seem to expect. The whole judge not lest you be judged thing goes all ways.

 

 

Not a big deal, just odd and kind of disappointing. It was a small quiet party and they knew all the adults there except me and DH. I was mostly perplexed by the mom's lack of attempt to get them to do/say anything. Maybe they are shyer than she was willing to admit. They ate their food silently, ignoring all attempts at conversation. DS offered to play LEGOs, and when they didn't respond she immediately offered TV. Maybe she knew they wouldn't "warm up" like she claimed and was giving them an out. When another adult asked where her kids were, she rolled her eyes and said they were "being pills" and "just wanted to play DS and watch movies."

 

I understand that kids are still learning social etiquette but I am always interested when I see how different parents handle it. My best friend and her three younger siblings were the most painfully shy kids/teens I've ever known. They couldn't even look peers (let alone adults) in the eye until their late teens. One of the three has not overcome her shyness and even at 25 and barely can function in the adult world. But as young children their mom expected that they at least summon the strength to say hello, good-bye, yes, no, please, and thank you and they all did. It was odd to see someone not even try with kids that age.

[2squared]

Well, no one knows what happened in their day before they came to the party. Perhaps they were being pills, and the mom was avoiding unpleasant scenes by letting them have quiet time. Maybe they played all day with friends and they were "done" with people for the day. I wouldn't expect a 7yo girl to play with a 3yo boy, but I'm surprised the 5yo boy wasn't tempted by the Legos. 3yo is pretty young, though. Sorry it wasn't much fun for your little guy.

[SJ.]

My oldest is very shy and my youngest sometimes follows in his footsteps. In group events DS1 shuts down, he becomes overwhelmed by all of the people, the noise, the smells, basically it is too much. In these events he will stay right by my side and barely mumble a hello. Depending on how uncomfortable he is i will encourage him to talk to other children that are present but if I sense he is extremely uncomfortable I will not do this. Over the past year his comfort in these situations has improved dramatically. In the situation you list there is a chance he would have played with your son but a couple years ago, no way. He would have been stuck to my side like glue.

 

OP, it is hard for you to understand because your ds is outgoing. Perhaps when your child was upset you should have explained to him that the other children were obviously very uncomfortable, that sometimes others are uncomfortable with people they don't know/in big groups, and that it would be appropriate to give them some space until it seemed like they were more comfortable.

[OrganicAnn]

There is some evidence that 'shyness' is an inherited trait. Which always seems strange because it is also a set of behaviors (how someone reacts to a situation). Parents can't control whether their child is shy or not. They sometimes can help them develop new behaviors, but is is not a simple or easy thing.

[elegantlion]

Honestly, it sounds like something happened prior to the party. Maybe they were being pills earlier, maybe they had enough social interaction. My ds is quiet around people he does not know. There are times when you know your kids have had enough and you don't force interaction. Perhaps they were there.

[Nakia]

My now 9 year old, would have probably acted the same way at that age. Poor thing was terribly shy. She still is at times, but she now understands she must, and is able to, extend "hello," "please" and "thank you" when approached. When she warms up, she is very pleasant and gets in to things! She has really come out of her shell over the last year.

 

I don't have any opinion about letting the kids play video games in another room. My kids have never owned hand-held video games.

 

These kind of threads, which come up often here, make me feel sad for the children and parents.

[kokotg]

When my oldest was that age it would have been a huge struggle to get him to say even a single word to a stranger, particularly in a setting like that. He has a severe hearing loss in one ear that makes sorting out sounds in group settings very difficult, and at that age he was so painfully shy that he was pretty much incapable of saying anything at all to people he didn't know well. Of course, I wouldn't have told someone at a party that he wasn't usually shy, and I have no idea what's going on with these particular kids....but it was pretty common that his extreme shyness was perceived as rudeness, so I'm still fairly sensitive to that. It's easy to say, "I wouldn't let my kid act like that" when your kid's not the one with such severe anxiety that saying "hello" is an enormous struggle. I was more concerned about my kid feeling safe than other people feeling like he had good manners. A stranger repeatedly trying to engage him in conversation at a party would have made getting him to the next party at all that much more difficult. Incidentally, he's 11 now, and, while still on the reserved end of things, you'd never guess what he was like at 5 and 6 if you met him now.

[SJ.]

My now 9 year old, would have probably acted the same way at that age. Poor thing was terribly shy. She still is at times, but she now understands she must, and is able to, extend "hello," "please" and "thank you" when approached. When she warms up, she is very pleasant and gets in to things! She has really come out of her shell over the last year.

 

I don't have any opinion about letting the kids play video games in another room. My kids have never owned hand-held video games.

 

These kind of threads, which come up often here, make me feel sad for the children and parents.

 

 

Me too. I can easily see something like this about our family, especially a couple year ago. No one wants to be so uncomfortable in a social setting that they feel they can hardly speak. I am sad to think some would have thought my son rude when in reality he is extremely kind and loving with a compassionate heart, he values friendships and when amongst his buddies he is as rambunctious as everyone else.

[Word Nerd]

Even as an adult, the thought of spending 3.5 hours somewhere I don't want to be while people ask me questions and prod me to engage in conversation or get me to play something sounds rather unpleasant. I have the option to stay home when I'm not in the mood for social interaction and pretending I enjoy small talk. These kids did not have that choice and probably would have been better off staying home with a sitter. This is the time of year when it's easy to get overstimulated and worn out from back-to-back holiday activities, straying from normal routines, illness, etc. I would keep that in mind before reaching any conclusions about her parenting or the kids' socialization based on what you witnessed during a snapshot in time.

[2squared]

My oldest is very reserved, and my others are reserved as well. They would never be the kids that run up to other kids, especially in a new environment with a lot of adults around.

 

I've also noticed that my kids know when other kids are not a good fit for them far before I see it, so I tend to give them freedom in deciding if they want to play with other kids. Just the other day my oldest dd told me that she didn't like a particular cousin's kids b/c they were naughty. Those kids hadn't hit my radar so I just took the comment at face value. Well, at our family Christmas, the oldest of the bunch came up to my 6yo, jumped on him, and started hitting him. It was just me, dh, and some kids around (since we were doing the follow-the-2yo-everywhere thing). I instantly understood my 10yo's assessment.

 

So, not saying that your 3yo is naughty, but just saying that sometimes kids just know when other kids aren't a good match for them.

[2squared]

Even as an adult, the thought of spending 3.5 hours somewhere I don't want to be while people ask me questions and prod me to engage in conversation or get me to play something sounds rather unpleasant. I have the option to stay home when I'm not in the mood for social interaction and pretending I enjoy small talk. These kids did not have that choice and probably would have been better off staying home with a sitter. This is the time of year when it's easy to get overstimulated and worn out from back-to-back holiday activities, straying from normal routines, illness, etc. I would keep that in mind before reaching any conclusions about her parenting or the kids' socialization based on what you witnessed during a snapshot in time.

 

And here is my confession....I felt this same way at dh's family Christmas this year. He has 8 siblings with large families, and there is just so much going on. I have a difficult time with it sometimes, and especially all the annoying small talk. I was also on toddler duty the whole time, so I was pretty crabby overall. I probably didn't socialize well either. I probably should have been watching TV in another room or better yet -- left at home.

[Myra]

In a party situation, my children would have been overwhelmed by any child that was overly an extrovert esp a child that doesn't yet pick up on social cues like personal space/holding hands/zealous greetings, etc. (Not a negative towards your son at all as he is only 3 years old!) But that's what makes the world go round - everyone is different. My kids tend to be quieter and slower in their approach of new people. And at that age, I wouldn't have even addressed it or even cared if they didn't converse with other kids - esp. younger ones. Now - if they were 10 and older, I'd encourage them to say hello and that's it. And guess what - I think that's fine. I guess this might be a good reminder for all of us ( for as your son matures, he, too, might lose his youthful exhuberance and become quiteter or if he doesn't he'll need to learn how to react to different personalites) to be more aware of different levels of comfort in adults and children. .

[Wheres Toto]

My kids are not at all shy. They are the kids who run up to a new child, say hello, introduce themselves, ask if they want to play. They will talk to strange adults, children, pretty much anyone. They will walk away from dh and I in a house full of strangers without a second thought. In fact, they did at a party after Christmas.

 

BUT, if they had the choice between playing with a 3 year old (who, I'm sorry but they would see as a "baby" especially my son) or watching tv and playing video games, they'd probably chose the video games. If I was there to see the behavior, I would have them answer another child politely and say hello, but they wouldn't have the patience to be questioned and would probably give a short answer and then walk away.

[DianeW88]

Some children are very uncomfortable being around boisterous, more aggressive kids at a young age. If your son had approached my oldest that way....mine would have totally backed off and found your son's approach threatening. If your ds had continued to talk or begged my son to play throughout the party, that would have definitely irritated him. Where your son is saying "her won't talk to me", my kid would have been saying, "that boy won't leave me alone". Socially aggressive kids can definitely be annoying and distressing to children who are naturally shy. And, at three, even the five year old might have considered him too babyish. Now, my socially forward youngest ds would have played with your son immediately, despite the age gap and would have had a blast. It's strictly personality at that age.

[AndyJoy]

OP, it is hard for you to understand because your ds is outgoing. Perhaps when your child was upset you should have explained to him that the other children were obviously very uncomfortable, that sometimes others are uncomfortable with people they don't know/in big groups, and that it would be appropriate to give them some space until it seemed like they were more comfortable.

 

 

Well, that would be a bit much for my 3-year-old, but I did explain to him that the other kids didn't want to play right now, that not everyone wants to do the same things as him, and they want some space right now. For the first hour the were holed up we hung out in the main room. Then he found them and tried to engage them again, which I thought was pretty patient for 3. We played LEGO on the floor and watched the same movie when they ignored him. DS sat by the boy and watched him play DS (LEGO Star Wars, ironically) for a few minutes, which didn't seem to bother him. He looked over at the LEGOs interestedly a few times but never joined.

[AndyJoy]

Ah, but it's so fun, and easier, to hold your own parenting skills up and paint events with one big brush!

 

 

If if this is directed at me I think its a bit harsh and unfair. I don't see me ranting or holding myself up as awesome. I know my son's outgoing/friendly nature has very little to do with my parenting and much to do with my genes. He was enthralled with strangers at the grocery store at 3 mo. old. and has "friends" who know his name at every store we frequent. I admitted my child is not at all shy and opened it up for input/perspective. I haven't argued--just clarified additional information. I was about to go through and "like" several posts that defend/explain their behavior. I was genuinely surprised at the dynamic given some of the circumstances (they knew the home and the majority of the adults, the mom thought they (esp. the boy) would be interested in LEGO initially, she never tried to have them respond to a thing my child said, etc.) Sheesh.

 

I'm one of the what, 10?% of extroverts on this board, so I wasn't expecting everyone to "agree with me," particularly since I don't have a strongly settled opinion on the issue and was just looking for other views.

[JFSinIL]

Could be the party was more for the adults, and the two kids had been promised the tv and Nintendo since a babysitter could not be found. To them, too, a 3-yr-old with Legos would not be as attractive as the media away from the adult party.

[AndyJoy]

Some children are very uncomfortable being around boisterous, more aggressive kids at a young age. If your son had approached my oldest that way....mine would have totally backed off and found your son's approach threatening. If your ds had continued to talk or begged my son to play throughout the party, that would have definitely irritated him. Where your son is saying "her won't talk to me", my kid would have been saying, "that boy won't leave me alone". Socially aggressive kids can definitely be annoying and distressing to children who are naturally shy. And, at three, even the five year old might have considered him too babyish. Now, my socially forward youngest ds would have played with your son immediately, despite the age gap and would have had a blast. It's strictly personality at that age.

 

 

I understand about the social aggressiveness. He's always the most friendly kid on the playground and has weirded out older kids from the time he was 1.5/2 with his desire to actually play with them. He wants to know every kid's name and play with them, whether they are interested or not. He is perplexed when others kids balk and dismiss him out of hand for whatever reason. I spend a lot of time trying to help him navigate the disappointment of rejection from other kids. We haven't yet found him a friend who's a good verbal match, though he does have one friend who can match him in action level.

 

It's interesting to hear that his initial greeting would be that off-putting. I didn't let him follow them around and subject them to the verbal barrage I get to listen to every day. He asked them to play 3 times with no answer, and then I told him the kids must not want to play right now. An hour later he asked them again. I invited the boy to join us once. When he tried to ask again, I shut him down and distracted him. The "her won't talk to me" comments were all directed to me and only one was in their hearing.

 

I actually "claimed" my best friend by being relentlessly socially aggressive with her. She was new to town and my church and I was in search of a best friend and picked her for my mark. :) She was 12 and I was 13.5 I asked her questions, but when all I got were one-word mumbled answers I would just talk to her. If she wouldn't answer my (very basic getting-to-know-you-type) question I would just move on and tell her things about town and my funny stories. I befriended her mom through some volunteer work, and she encouraged me to pursue Amy. Amy's mom had me pick out a t-shirt for her at a book fair, buy crafts supplies for her birthday, invited me to events, etc. I was close to giving up after 6 months but finally broke through while on a ski retreat weekend with her and my youth group. Now Amy loves telling the story of how I "made" her be my best friend and how "scary" I was with my outgoing nature and how glad she is I didn't give up on her. Of course this took lots of time and we had regular contact every week at church that made this possible. I understand this can't happen immediately at one party, but I just wanted to say that friendly outgoingness can be a good thing and melt down barriers rather than just crashing through them.

[AndyJoy]

In a party situation, my children would have been overwhelmed by any child that was overly an extrovert esp a child that doesn't yet pick up on social cues like personal space/holding hands/zealous greetings, etc. (Not a negative towards your son at all as he is only 3 years old!) But that's what makes the world go round - everyone is different. My kids tend to be quieter and slower in their approach of new people. And at that age, I wouldn't have even addressed it or even cared if they didn't converse with other kids - esp. younger ones. Now - if they were 10 and older, I'd encourage them to say hello and that's it. And guess what - I think that's fine. I guess this might be a good reminder for all of us ( for as your son matures, he, too, might lose his youthful exhuberance and become quiteter or if he doesn't he'll need to learn how to react to different personalites) to be more aware of different levels of comfort in adults and children. .

 

 

I think I'm discovering these kids must be more typically shy than their mom let on. Because he wasn't invading personal space, trying to hold hands, etc. I listed those as examples of things we've dealt with, but they weren't at play here because I was hyper-vigilant when I saw they were uncomfortable. He did greet them confidently as I listed above and asked 3 times for them to play LEGO when they didn't respond before I stopped him. I find it interesting that you wouldn't at least encourage a child younger than 10 to say hello, especially to a younger child, who is likely to feel more acutely rejected!

 

We encounter a lot of older kids ignoring him just because he's younger and I find that sad. I understand older kids not wanting to play with a "baby" (though they usually have no problem making off with his toys...), but for them to not even acknowledge his perfectly articulate greeting with a "Hi." is off-putting.

[texasmama]

Your son appears to be pretty far over on the extrovert scale. Perhaps the kids at the party were introverts, which is not synonymous with "shyness", a form of social anxiety. Personality type and introversion/extroversion does not have a cause/effect relationship with schooling choice. It is inaccurate to draw this correlation.

[SJ.]

I think I'm discovering these kids must be more typically shy than their mom let on. Because he wasn't invading personal space, trying to hold hands, etc. I listed those as examples of things we've dealt with, but they weren't at play here because I was hyper-vigilant when I saw they were uncomfortable. He did greet them confidently as I listed above and asked 3 times for them to play LEGO when they didn't respond before I stopped him. I find it interesting that you wouldn't at least encourage a child younger than 10 to say hello, especially to a younger child, who is likely to feel more acutely rejected!

 

We encounter a lot of older kids ignoring him just because he's younger and I find that sad. I understand older kids not wanting to play with a "baby" (though they usually have no problem making off with his toys...), but for them to not even acknowledge his perfectly articulate greeting with a "Hi." is off-putting.

 

Because it isn't as easy as just saying hi for some of these kids. When DS1 was 6 he had a panic attack at his best friend's birthday party because I kept encouraging him to participate.

 

OP, it sounds like you handled your son just fine the night of the party. When you encounter these situations just keep reminding him that some kids have a hard time saying hi and that is ok.

[Embassy]

Your son appears to be pretty far over on the extrovert scale. Perhaps the kids at the party were introverts, which is not synonymous with "shyness", a form of social anxiety. Personality type and introversion/extroversion does not have a cause/effect relationship with schooling choice. It is inaccurate to draw this correlation.

 

 

:iagree:

 

This has nothing to do with school choice or a child being socialized. It is more to do with personality. I would not force or spend much effort coaxing my child to say something to someone if he didn't want to. I might prompt my kid to say hi, but I wouldn't press the issue at all. Western society promotes the idea that outgoingness is good and introvertedness is bad. It takes a bit of extra effort to help an introverted child become comfortable with who he is in this society.

 

The only school issue I can think of would be a 3 year old playing with an older child. You might find that homeschooled children are more willing to play with a younger child, but public schooled children have built-in peer pressure to not do anything that would be considered babyish. Playing with a 3 year old would be considered babyish.

 

I've also had an experience where my child went to other kids the same age asking to join in and had no response. This child wasn't really shy or outgoing and the kids asked weren't either. Sometimes it is just the age.

[skeeterbug]

 

 

That's basically what I thought. And maybe they weren't interested in playing with a 3 year old. Harsh as that might sound, a three year old probably seems like a toddler/baby to them.

 

But they could have at least said hello, and 'no thank you' when asked to play. I think that's what the op is getting at. It's just polite, and op is saying that the mom made no effort to get her children to be polite. I understand the kids may not have wanted to speak, imo the mum should have at least asked them to do so whether they complied or not. Even to a 3yo, because we should be polite no matter the age. Of course it helps if they have younger siblings, or family friends or cousins, or a homeschool group (!) where they've had practice interacting with youngers. I suppose many kids just don't get that practice and don't know how to respond to a 3yo.

 

[kalanamak]

Didn't sound like a big deal. A party full of adults, a strange woman asking questions, a toddler asking them to play...eh, wouldn't expect much more, they are young children and thus still grasping the social etiquette world we adults seem to expect. The whole judge not lest you be judged thing goes all ways.

 

At seven I would have been hiding the bathroom. A house full of strange adults and a toddler? Gad. (My favorite spot was in the cabinet under the sink. I used to play solitaire if there was any light.)

[Alte Veste Academy]

I have one shy child. I have one child who has always been outgoing and social with everyone right out-of-the-gate. I have one non-shy child who appears shy because of being slow to warm up. There is no superior child in my group of three. They are all normal, on a continuum. You happened to get a 10 on the extremely shy--->not-at-all shy scale. I am searching for a way to say this politely... I can hear in your phrasing that you admire this about him. Yes, you admit that it can be hard sometimes. Yes, he gets hurt feelings and you have to restrain him at times. Still, I hear pride in your words. But I personally think it is misplaced pride, because it is not something that is good or bad. It just is.

 

Your OP got to manners, but not until the end. Yes, I personally think good manners dictate that the kids should have been led to say hi and at least give a "no, thank you" at the first offer to play. After declining the first offer to play, good manners dictate that your DS not ask repeatedly. But the bulk of your post was about how they wouldn't play or talk with him and how he was affected by that, as if because he is so friendly and social, they should have played with him. Honestly, for shy and slow-to-warm kids, instant boisterous friendliness is extremely off-putting. And yes, some kids won't want to play with a "baby." I also agree in wondering if the older kids were just frazzled that day. The whole family might have had "one of those days." I don't know and, of course, neither do you. I just bristle a bit by the implication (however unintentional it may be) that extremely social kids are...I don't know exactly what... Honestly, I felt a kind of gloating vibe about your posts in this thread. You're a nice person, and I don't think you intended it at all! I think your DS is like you and you dig him and this thread was kind of a vehicle for saying so. But those of us with shy kids bristle. Personally, I have seen my three on both ends of the same situation. The situation described in the OP isn't about kids being "perfectly socialized." It is about kids realizing that everyone is different and respecting those differences.

 

Signed,

No shy-bone-in-my-body either, in possession of one mini-me kid (who teaches me lessons about myself and life every day) and two non-mini-me kids (who teach me lessons about myself and life every day)

[Izzy]

My oldest is very shy and my youngest sometimes follows in his footsteps. In group events DS1 shuts down, he becomes overwhelmed by all of the people, the noise, the smells, basically it is too much. In these events he will stay right by my side and barely mumble a hello. Depending on how uncomfortable he is i will encourage him to talk to other children that are present but if I sense he is extremely uncomfortable I will not do this. Over the past year his comfort in these situations has improved dramatically. In the situation you list there is a chance he would have played with your son but a couple years ago, no way. He would have been stuck to my side like glue.

 

 

This is my 7 year old. He has gotten so much better in the past year though. There was a time when he would actually turn around and pretend like someone speaking to him wasn't there. I will usually just answer for him and try to encourage him to say something. He will warm up MUCH quicker now but there was a time when social situations would bring on anxiety for him.

 

I'm also painfully shy and it's not fun. If there was an extrovert pill I could take I would surely take it. Or a magic wand. :D

[Izzy]

Oh, and I have a very social 13 year old. He's been this way since he was a baby. People love him and he loves people. He loves public school but has to homeschool because of learning disabilities. I have always wondered where this child gets his personality because it's not from me. lol

[KungFuPanda]

My own shy kid got freaked out by socially aggressive kids especially when they had a parent backing them up. If she managed to escape the situation, and the child and parent tracked her down, she would have felt horribly uncomfortable. Luckily, she has a brother who loves to play with strangers and their toys, so the situation would be diffused that way.

 

One pattern I have noticed is that most younger kids and their parents very strongly believe that the older kids should WANT to play with them. Most older kids, homeschooled or not, seem to really prefer hanging with their own general age group to playing with significantly younger ones.

 

In homeschooling circles, there's almost this expectation that the teens will corral the little kids and something is wrong with them if they'd rather not do that. I once saw a lady get miffed that the 9-year-olds 'excluded' her 6-year-old daughter, but bristled at the suggestion that her daughter play with the 3-year-olds who were interested in her company.

 

My point is that it's EASY to get wrapped up in your own child's needs and not consider that those needs might conflict with another child's equally valid needs.

[2squared]

In homeschooling circles, there's almost this expectation that the teens will corral the little kids and something is wrong with them if they'd rather not do that. I once saw a lady get miffed that the 9-year-olds 'excluded' her 6-year-old daughter, but bristled at the suggestion that her daughter play with the 3-year-olds who were interested in her company.

 

My point is that it's EASY to get wrapped up in your own child's needs and not consider that those needs might conflict with another child's equally valid needs.

 

So true. My 10 and 8yos are expected to (and do) play with my 4 and 2yos, but I do not expect them to play with other little kids since they would rather not.

[crazyforlatin]

Not all 7-year olds want to play with 3-year olds. Even DD is a reserved when a much younger child wants to play with her. It's not the kind of play where she gets to be herself, especially if there is a parent hovering. She has to be extra careful not to accidentally hurt the child, has to teach the child all the rules, and has to figure out what level of conversation to carry with a young child. It's not peer-to-peer play even if the 3-year old is very sociable.

 

 

[GraciebytheBay]

It sounds like you handled the situation very well. My oldest two boys were quite shy, one to the extreme of hiding behind my leg when meeting new people or when someone showed him attention. While I respected his personality, I did require him to say hello when spoken to and answer questions. He did not have to have long conversations, and I would rescue him if I felt the person talking to him didn't understand his boundary. We talked about how to handle these situations in the car on the way to a function and even practiced at home. He knew what was expected and he also knew that he would have many "opportunities" to practice in social situations and that he would not be in trouble if he couldn't handle something.

 

All of this to say that I do think that parents do their children a disservice if they use the "he is just shy" line in front of the child and do not ask them to go a bit beyond their comfort zone for the purpose of social interaction and manners. It is not unreasonable to expect a child to say hello and respond, but I wouldn't be offended if they didn't because of my understanding of naturally shy children and the pain they experience. Please know I am not talking about situations in which the child is exhausted or has been in many stressful social situations prior (but then I would probably not have my child attend yet another function if that has been the case). All bets are off when it comes to tired, stressed kids!

 

Btw, it does occur to me that perhaps they were working on this issue and this was the best they could do at that time and was even an improvement over previous outings. There is no way for us to know what happens in other families.

[AndyJoy]

I'm sorry if I came across as prideful or gloating. I did not mean to hurt the feelings of parents of shy kids or imply that they are inferior. This was not my intention. I wanted advice, and I'm getting it. I will admit it hurts to have my motives questioned. I did not really know where I was going with this thread when I started it. I just was putting some thoughts out there that were spinning around and wanted some input.

 

I do appreciate his outgoing nature because it makes my life fun and is easier in some ways, but I will say it is not a walk in the park and I often minimize the strain it is to work with his personality because I have NO ONE who understands the intensity of his personality IRL right now. I know I can come off as Pollyanna sometimes in real life because I don't like to share my doubts/struggles/hurts with just anyone so I mask them with chatter and optimism and general outgoingness. I'm sure this can come off as gloating to some if I'm not sharing the bad. I'm actually crying as I type this out. Friends IRL say off-hand things like, "He's so friendly! He's so outgoing. Wow you're lucky he's so easy," but it is hard. He is also insanely energetic, every-waking-hour intense, constantly talking, and is often frustrated and disappointed with other kids who brush him off for whatever reason. He craves interaction so much he's been crying when other kids (who he just met) left the park since he was less than 2. Because he is 3, he is obviously still learning that others feel differently than him so there is a lot of emotional hurt because all he feels is rejection. It is exhausting and difficult to walk him through this. Maybe I should start a thread on dealing with the emotional needs of outgoing kids, because I assure you it is not easy, and I'm not gloating. My heart hurts for him a lot.

 

The "not perfectly socialized" part was a joke due to how often homeschoolers get bashed for their social skills.

 

I just want to summarize what I was/am thinking in this.

 

The mom SAID her kids are not usually very shy. She SAID she thought they would love to play LEGO with DS. They knew the house and all the people in it except my family. When they wouldn't acknowledge DS with a single word, I was surprised that she didn't say a word to them about it, then whisked them away to a back room without trying to get them to engage. Had she made a simple comment like, "They're pretty shy so they may not want to hang out tonight." I probably wouldn't have found it as odd. Instead she said things like, "They'll warm up later," and "T loves LEGO," so I didn't think it was rude to wait 1 hour before letting DS ask again. I didn't know at the time that there would be no second chance, that they were very reserved and an outgoing greeting or age difference was too much to overcome. I didn't "write off" DS's chance to play with another child that evening immediately because I took her at her word. We didn't hound them, we gave them time, and they were shyer than we realized. If I meet them again, I won't expect them to respond to us.

 

It's hard knowing when to have my son back off, you know? If he doesn't get a response to "Hello!" at the park, should we move on? Or can he try again to engage the child as long as he's not "in their face"? Usually he "wins over" kids by offering to play ball or monster trucks. It often takes several tries. How are we to know when someone is so shy this is too much if the parent doesn't say a word? If your child is one who would be really uncomfortable with, "Hi, I'm Keaton. What's you name? Do you want to play LEGO?" how is the outgoing child to know to give up? I didn't see strong enough body language to know that the kids were anxious/uncomfortable. Do you say something when another kid is failing at engaging your child?

 

I guess my biggest frustration with this situation was that the mom didn't speak to either her kids or me about what was going on. But maybe she wasn't concerned and thought it would work itself out without her help. I'm sure I'm devoting much more time to thinking about it than she is.

[Whereneverever]

Not all 7-year olds want to play with 3-year olds. Even DD is a reserved when a much younger child wants to play with her. It's not the kind of play where she gets to be herself, especially if there is a parent hovering. She has to be extra careful not to accidentally hurt the child, has to teach the child all the rules, and has to figure out what level of conversation to carry with a young child. It's not peer-to-peer play even if the 3-year old is very sociable.

 

This is a good point. My almost nine year old, especially, would have felt this was more like babysitting then having fun.

[Joker]

All it would have taken for me to retreat into myself at that age was one person I did not know. These children did not know your family and you and your child were both trying to draw them out. I have one who is very outgoing and one who is very shy. At those ages I did not force my dd to say anything if she didn't want to. We would talk with her alone or afterward (which is something you would not know or witness), but I wouldn't get into a power struggle or force her to do something uncomfortable at that moment during a party. I was just like her as a child and I am so very thankful my parents didn't become all crazy and make me talk when I did not want. I turned out just fine and came into my own by about age 10. My own shy dd is much more outgoing now at 10 as well, so I think we parented her exactly as we should have.

[Joker]

 

 

My youngest can be extremely shy around everyone including grandparents and relatives that she sees on a regular basis. The only people that she's not shy around is us - her immediate family. I role play with her when we know that we will be around family or friends, but it doesn't guarantee that she will actually talk.

 

By the way, I think it's great that your ds is so excited and willing to play with the other kids!

 

This is something important to note as well. My dd who is shy used to take days, not hours, to warm up to family she had not seen in months. Strangers just never had a chance. Like I said, she's much different now at 10.

[Snickerdoodle]

When your son asked the other kids to play, did that mean with you as well as him? Your son is 3, so I take that to mean that he probably was within your reach most of the time? Were you playing legos too?

 

I'm just curious. I find this thread interesting.

[crazyforlatin]

All it would have taken for me to retreat into myself at that age was one person I did not know. These children did not know your family and you and your child were both trying to draw them out. I have one who is very outgoing and one who is very shy. At those ages I did not force my dd to say anything if she didn't want to. We would talk with her alone or afterward (which is something you would not know or witness), but I wouldn't get into a power struggle or force her to do something uncomfortable at that moment during a party. I was just like her as a child and I am so very thankful my parents didn't become all crazy and make me talk when I did not want. I turned out just fine and came into my own by about age 10. My own shy dd is much more outgoing now at 10 as well, so I think we parented her exactly as we should have.

 

DD was reserved as a young child, but I let her be herself, and now she is usually comfortable talking with most people. But I often had to endure people voicing their opinions in FRONT of her. This one woman had a loud and sudden laugh that actually startled DD and made her turn away. I had to quickly get DD out of there before another "she's so shy" comment could be made. It's really too bad that kids are labeled so early by their parents and by other adults. If there were only sociable kids, they would find that there would be no one to listen to them.

[AndyJoy]

My own shy kid got freaked out by socially aggressive kids especially when they had a parent backing them up. If she managed to escape the situation, and the child and parent tracked her down, she would have felt horribly uncomfortable. Luckily, she has a brother who loves to play with strangers and their toys, so the situation would be diffused that way.

 

One pattern I have noticed is that most younger kids and their parents very strongly believe that the older kids should WANT to play with them. Most older kids, homeschooled or not, seem to really prefer hanging with their own general age group to playing with significantly younger ones.

 

In homeschooling circles, there's almost this expectation that the teens will corral the little kids and something is wrong with them if they'd rather not do that. I once saw a lady get miffed that the 9-year-olds 'excluded' her 6-year-old daughter, but bristled at the suggestion that her daughter play with the 3-year-olds who were interested in her company.

 

My point is that it's EASY to get wrapped up in your own child's needs and not consider that those needs might conflict with another child's equally valid needs.

 

 

I guess I need to pay attention to context because at church he has no problems with rejection from older kids. They are clamoring to play with him, especially the 3-6 year old boys and the 6-9 year old girls. It didn't occur to me that these kids would not be interested (assuming it was the age thing and not just shyness.) I never expect the older kids to watch him, though. I'm always close at hand and won't let him drag his 16-year-old babysitter away from her friends at church when he tries. At the park, I understand when the older kids are playing their own game that they don't want a tag-a-long, but in a closed situation like this I find it very rare for kids of any age to completely ignore little ones. As for backing him up, I will say again that I don't feel we were being very aggressive, though I know others disagree. They were alone for an hour before DS asked them one last time to play. When they wouldn't, we played on the floor with LEGOs, watched the same movie, and didn't say a word to them for the next 2 hours.

[AndyJoy]

When your son asked the other kids to play, did that mean with you as well as him? Your son is 3, so I take that to mean that he probably was within your reach most of the time? Were you playing legos too?

 

I'm just curious. I find this thread interesting.

 

 

Initially it would have been just him, because the party was in a large semi-sectioned room. He had his LEGOs spread out in the open area behind the couch and the adults (including me) were watching funny videos within sight. Once the other kids went into the back, I set him up with his video game for a while and then played LEGO with him because he kept trying to find the kids and I knew they weren't ready to play yet and wanted to give them space. Once DS excitedly found them an hour later, I stayed back there in the room with him because I was uncomfortable leaving him alone in a stranger's house. By then the adult party was devolving anyway, so I thought it was reasonable for DS to at least watch the same movie as long as he wasn't pestering them. The boy did smile at me and looked like he wanted to play a few times, but never left the bed or his DS.

[sparrow]

I guess my biggest frustration with this situation was that the mom didn't speak to either her kids or me about what was going on. But maybe she wasn't concerned and thought it would work itself out without her help. I'm sure I'm devoting much more time to thinking about it than she is.

 

First :grouphug: . This parenting gig can be tough. Not only do we have our own kid's idiosyncrasies to deal with, but throw in other kids' and it's hard to know what to do. I think what you did was fine, but I also think you're wasting a lot of energy worrying about this mom did, or didn't do. She knows her kids. You know your son. If we were at a house party, and my older kids were quietly entertained, it honestly wouldn't cross my mind to check and see if they were engaging a 3 year old as well.

[Embassy]

DD was reserved as a young child, but I let her be herself, and now she is usually comfortable talking with most people. But I often had to endure people voicing their opinions in FRONT of her. This one woman had a loud and sudden laugh that actually startled DD and made her turn away. I had to quickly get DD out of there before another "she's so shy" comment could be made. It's really too bad that kids are labeled so early by their parents and by other adults. If there were only sociable kids, they would find that there would be no one to listen to them.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I remember as a child the adults would put GREAT pressure on me to talk to them. By great pressure I mean they would say things like "cat got your tongue" or words like "too shy" directly to me. It made talking to them an even bigger deal than it was in the first place. I could go on. I determined that if my child was quite introverted I would do the opposite and accept it as part of who he is. I did have a child reluctant to speak and even look at strangers at a young age. He grew up and is more on the quiet contemplative side, but has no difficulties speaking to most anyone now.

 

When I worked as a speech therapist with little kids I often ran into little ones that had an introverted nature who reluctant to talk to me, a stranger. I lowered the pressure to talk and listened. You can still listen when kids don't say a thing. It is the expectation that a kid will say or should say something that brings pressure. It can prevent a child from communicating. I had success when I lowered expectations and connected with the child without much talking on my part.