Alicia64 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Dh is adamant that our kids won't fly w/ TSA doing their "pat downs." He says he won't let the kids be subject to something that's "just plain wrong." He also says that the TSA issue is a slow erosion of our rights. Ex: they'll start with the airlines, then do the trains, then do the stadiums etc. We have friends who visit Israel often and say that the way security is being handled at airports here is a joke -- that these pat downs aren't protecting anyone like the Israel methods are. Here's my problem: my family is on the opposite coast of us. I'm wondering how the heck we're supposed to visit grandparents?? But my real question: is anyone actually not flying because of TSA's methods? Alley Edited July 5, 2011 by Alicia64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Do a little research on your airports, many of them do not have the latest and greatest TSA equipment. If you fly to smaller (less convenient, more expensive) airports, they are even less likely to have it. They don't do the pat downs unless you refuse the naked scanner, and if they don't have the naked scanner, they just walk everyone through the old x-ray machines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLG Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Really, it is a true PIA but what can you do if there are long distances and you need to get there quickly? The degree of personal intrusion varies by airports as we have seen lately. The larger ones are the worst, imo. I agree completely with your dh that this is an erosion of our rights and it has been ever since 9-11 but the degree has escalated in the past year. There was a local guy who refused to have the pt down, went to court and the judge sided with him! Maybe your dh is onto something. Do think that the kids need to have a clear explanation prior to venturing into that fray however, if you do fly with them. I voted that we fly when necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We avoided flying for a while. And, whenever it's practical, I still prefer to drive. My son, especially, is very unhappy about TSA procedures. However, sometimes, it just doesn't make sense to drive. Last month, we took a family trip to New York to celebrate my daughter's graduation. We grumbled, but we chose to fly. So, I'd have to say that, while we have flown for something less "mandatory" than a funeral, we are still being selective about what is important enough to justify the TSA experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We live in a major metroplex and airline hub, so the equipment surely is in place. Last spring, with disappointment, we did not accompany DH to another major city, cross-country, even though we could have stayed at no charge in his hotel room. I can roll with an X-ray, if unavoidable. Nobody on earth, however, is going to rub down my children! (I've read some of the horror anecdotes.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We flew to Hawaii a month ago. We found TSA to be very accommodating with the kids. Talking and joking with them. Both ways, they sent dd's and I through the standard metal-detectors. Both had the scanners. One of them, they made dh do the scanner. I don't know if that's official policy or not. But, it did happen in 2 different airports. ETA. I've read the horror stories and I was worried. But, that just wasn't our experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 It's very unlikely we'll be flying for a while. However, TSA policies have nothing to do with it, and I'd have no problem with my children going through security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I fly a lot. Several times a month, typically. My children sometimes accompany me, but usually I'm flying for business. In all of the many, many flights I've taken I have never once been subjected to a pat down. In fact, you almost never have to as long as you accept the alternative equipment, and if you prepare properly so that you don't set off the machines. It really isn't hard to do as long as you educate yourself in advance and do what you're told once you're there (e.g., take everything out of your pockets, remove your shoes and outerwear, belt, heavy jewelry). Here's the thing.....I don't like it, either, and I know it's just window dressing and isn't really protecting us from a thing. But flying is not a "right" in this country. Since I don't have a choice but to fly or lose my job, I choose to travel educated and have never once been delayed (or even endured a pat down) by TSA. And for what it's worth, my children will not endure a pat down, either. I'll be sure they are prepared and, if necessary, go through the enhanced x-ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I recently flew through Atlanta and Hartford/Springfield with no issues at all. Nothing other than the usual scanner (not the nay-nay one) and normal stuff. I am not at all excited about the new procedures, but graduations only happen once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 DS had a scouting adventure in early June that required a round trip flight to FL. If he wanted to go on the high adventure trip he had to fly, there were no other travel options. He wasn't concerned about security and reported nothing out of the ordinary upon his return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Our experience with the increased security measures has been just fine. The first time we went through the scanners, my daughter didn't understand that she was supposed to hold perfectly still, and since she moved her head following the scanner with her eyes, she had to be patted down. They called for a female agent, who explained to both dd and I exactly what she was going to do. She was kind and patient and professional. It was no big deal, and my dd was not at all traumatized. As far as personal rights go, I feel that I have a right to get on a plane where no one is carrying a weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Poll: Are you allowing your kids to fly? Personally my kids can flap there arms as much as they like, but they are not allowed to jump off the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 As far as personal rights go, I feel that I have a right to get on a plane where no one is carrying a weapon. Sadly, nobody in knowledgeable places seems to think that TSA is doing anything for air safety. As another poster said, the TSA methods are all "window dressing." If these security measures were actually doing some good -- I'd be totally with you! (Who wouldn't??) I can't understand why they don't adopt the methods that Israel -- known for top notch security -- is using. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Sure. I let my kids scour the airport for lost boarding passes and let them fly anywhere the boarding passes will take them. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I can't understand why they don't adopt the methods that Israel -- known for top notch security -- is using. On that, I COMPLETELY agree with you! I don't know how effective the new TSA methods/standards are. I know that the people that I have personally heard complain about them were not complaining about ineffectiveness, but about their rights to privacy being violated. I'm just not sure how much "right to privacy" a person should be entitled to when getting on an airplane. I think the right to safety of all the other passengers and crew takes first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We live in a major metroplex and airline hub, so the equipment surely is in place. I just flew JFK without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Flying out of Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion airport recently, after covering the outbreak of violence between Israel and Hizballah, I got the usual treatment for a gentile foreigner: half an hour of questioning by a young security agent before I even got to the counter. From: http://www.examiner.com/populist-in-national/exactly-what-are-israeli-airport-security-measures-and-would-they-work-here Disclaimer...this is from a quick google and I don't really know his qualifications, but the guy appeared to have multiple experiences of going through Israeli security. Take it for what it's worth.:) I don't think people would like their methods either. How many airports does Israel have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Do a little research on your airports, many of them do not have the latest and greatest TSA equipment. If you fly to smaller (less convenient, more expensive) airports, they are even less likely to have it. They don't do the pat downs unless you refuse the naked scanner, and if they don't have the naked scanner, they just walk everyone through the old x-ray machines Here is a list of airports using the scanners. I was able to avoid them on my last trip. (I'm a breast cancer survivor who had a mastectomy, which means the whole body scanner would show an "anomaly" and I would get stuck with a pat down even if I submitted to the scanner. So I REALLY want to avoid the scanners.) I looked on this list and found out that only one terminal of our local airport had the scanner. So I chose an airline that used the other terminal (this airline ought to use that fact in their advertising, LOL). It worked! I flew into an airport without the machines, and just walked through the metal detectors in both places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 From:http://www.examiner.com/populist-in-national/exactly-what-are-israeli-airport-security-measures-and-would-they-work-here Disclaimer...this is from a quick google and I don't really know his qualifications, but the guy appeared to have multiple experiences of going through Israeli security. Take it for what it's worth.:) I don't think people would like their methods either. How many airports does Israel have? Well, you might be right! :001_smile: This was not the sort of thing that came to my mind when I thought of Israeli security measures. I was thinking more of things like the cockpit being protected in such a way that no passenger could infiltrate it in-flight for any reason whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We fly all over and don't think twice. Often my daughters fly alone. It's never been a big deal and personally I'd rather feel safe on a plane, even though I know the detectors/pat-downs don't catch everything. For me, there are bigger issues to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murmer Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Refuse to fly with my children....driving 5 days cross country to visit my family this summer from VT to CA...So worth it to avoid TSA...by the way TSA is now doing random screenings at trains, buses, ferries, and use the technology for see through machines at truck stops on the road...at this rate there is a chance that in 10 - 20 years or sooner you can't leave your house to travel without having to tranverse TSA its not about the "right" to fly but it is about the right to travel without being forced to be touched or xrayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnitaMcC Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) I voted for "if we have to". But it is a bit more than that. As long as it is left up to me, we will fly if the drive is more than a 16 hr drive. But honestly the only time the distance would be longer than 16 hrs, is if we went to FL (which is about a 20 hr drive with minimal stops) and we likely would fly then. But I don't like to fly (I really hate the take off and landings and turbulance-LOL). I just rather have the freedom of driving. It isn't the TSA that is bothering me about flying. I don't like their measures of "security" but I also am not going to let them stop me from getting to where I am wanting to go. But I also don't like suspension bridges-LOL. So either way I usually get a bit anxious at some point in travel. Edited July 5, 2011 by AnitaMcC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lilreds in NC Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I hate to fly anyway, and this nonsense with security is just one more reason not to do it. If we *had* to, I would, but honestly, it's such a pain to fly now that I'd rather not go than fly if I have a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We live outside the US. If we want to see our family, we have to fly. There's just no way around it. We've flown once (round trip, three airports visited each way) since the new regulations. They did NOT send our kids through the backscatter machine (the so-called virtual strip search) NOR do an "enhanced pat down" on our boys. My husband was chosen for the backscatter machine 2x out of the 6x we went through security; no pat down after either one. The rest of us went through the normal, pre-backscatter stuff (bags through x-ray, us through metal detector). No problem. We will not alter our travel because of the TSA. Even if we could, we wouldn't. Having experienced it first hand, it's just not worth fussing over, at least, not worth isolating ourselves from family. If our air travel were purely recreational, we might reconsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLVD Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We don't get to travel much due to cost. This it the year that I want to travel with DD. We will fly, no issue with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We live in a major metroplex and airline hub, so the equipment surely is in place. Last spring, with disappointment, we did not accompany DH to another major city, cross-country, even though we could have stayed at no charge in his hotel room. I can roll with an X-ray, if unavoidable. Nobody on earth, however, is going to rub down my children! (I've read some of the horror anecdotes.) I just flew through SFO and though the scanner was present, it only occupied 1 of about 8 lines. I just chose another line. Ditto Denver. Dh is all about speed, so he jumped into the shortest line without noting the scanner. I made fun of him for going through the "naked scanner." No pat downs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We have flown several times (we end up flying about 4-6x/yr), and we've always been sent to the "Family line", which has just the metal detector, even though the airports we've been through have been major ones (Memphis, Orlando, Atlanta, Miami), and that seems to be typical-that young children go through the metal detector, and that families aren't split up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mynyel Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I want to visit family in CA, I live in NC. In order to do that I will need to fly. Economically I can't do it any way else. Train's cost an arm and a leg. So my solution was to use a local airport. I won't be using the big airports. It does cost more than using a big airport but much less than the train. You also run less risk of invasive pat down at a small airport because there is more familiarity with people from the area. At least in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) I am no a shrinking Violet lemming, but I want to fly. I recently got a scan in Logan, and a pat -down in CA. The pat- down was done right in the open, and it was honestly no big deal to me. Very 'professional', very unemotional. Whether it helps the terrorism efforts remains to be seen. But traumatic to me in any way, shape or form? Heck, no. To make it easier on all, in case, I wore a sleeveless, fitted sundress andof course my sandals were already off :). No big deal. It was the first time I had been sent to either of those lines. It took seconds. If you want to fight the fight to stop these, OK, but I don't think not flying is going to help the cause. And if you want to fly, you might get the pat down, you might not. In case, wear simple clothing. ;) There was no groping. She looked like she wanted to be doing it as much as one wished they were planning to be eaten alive my misquitos. Edited July 5, 2011 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Refuse to fly with my children....driving 5 days cross country to visit my family this summer from VT to CA...So worth it to avoid TSA...by the way TSA is now doing random screenings at trains, buses, ferries, and use the technology for see through machines at truck stops on the road...at this rate there is a chance that in 10 - 20 years or sooner you can't leave your house to travel without having to tranverse TSA its not about the "right" to fly but it is about the right to travel without being forced to be touched or xrayed. :iagree:I am not travelling anytime soon, but if the issue does come up I will not be getting on a commercial airline and my daughter definitely will not. Charter airplanes are another kettle of fish entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 It makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever. If I have the opportunity to travel somewhere with my children, we would definitely go. I can't imagine turning down an opportunity because of the security measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K&Rs Mom Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Here's my problem: my family is on the opposite coast of us. I'm wondering how the heck we're supposed to visit grandparents?? But my real question: is anyone actually not flying because of TSA's methods? We're not. My inlaws live in Oregon (we're in Michigan) - next month we're driving out to see them. It's going to be a 5000 mile roundtrip, which we've never done before but this is probably the only way we'll get out there now. I agree with your dh - my kids & I will not be going through this process (and I LOVE to fly, so sad to give it up). Luckily we have the time right now to take our time driving, making stops at cool places & turn it into a big vacation. If we have to get out there quickly for a funeral, it's pretty much a 3-day straight trip, so that's going to stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 It makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever. If I have the opportunity to travel somewhere with my children, we would definitely go. I can't imagine turning down an opportunity because of the security measures. Even if TSA does a pat down like they've done to kids?? I'm not being rude -- I'm just wondering if you're heard/read what some of these TSA people are doing. One was recently caught/fired for having a horde of child porn. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We've flown with our kids with absolutely no problems whatsoever, and we will continue to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 They don't do the pat downs unless you refuse the naked scanner, Wrong!!! That's what I had thought, too - but on our recent flight out of Philadelphia, I had to go through the scanner AND was patted down afterwards (my family walked through the old X-ray and that was it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 All our family is in Germany. Both sets of grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins... we have nobody in the US. plus, our parents are elderly. There will be only so many times we get to see them - so we fly, no matter how inconvenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Two years ago, we drove down to Orlando for our first Disney trip. It was 20 harrowing hours of mostly closed rest stops, alligator jerky stands, and tons of truckers on I10. We were absolutely zapped once we finally got there. Took at least a few days of our vacation to recover. Last year, we said, screw it. Despite all the unpleasantness entailed in flying these days, we went ahead and purchased some tickets on Delta from DFW to MCO, with a connection in ATL. Let me tell you. They could have had us strip, do a pole dance, and re-dress in drag, and I still would have chosen flying over the drive. And I don't even like flying! TSA never patted any of us down, at either DFW or at MCO. We took off our shoes, walked through the scanner, and recollected our things. It took us less time to go through security than it did for me to write this paragraph. In fact, at DFW, we didn't even have a line at the check point. We just walked through. Then, we relaxed at the gate, until boarding time. Pushed back from the gate, took off on time, and after a 1.5 hour flight, landed in ATL, and another 1 hour flight from there, and we were in MCO. It was beautiful. SO MUCH BETTER THAN DRIVING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I have told my kids to refuse the Xray scanner but the radio scanner is okay. I have had a patdown because I refused the XRAy scanner. There was a line of us, actually. I was number two in the line. It wasn't much more than what the patdown was before the enhanced procedures. It certainly wasn't felling under my bra or up my other privates. Nothing like that. I don't like to fly but have had to several times this year. We were visiting colleges and all of them were more than a day's drive. We couldn't afford the time to drive or we wouldn't have been getting the schoolyear done. I think the TSA procedures are completely idiotic and infuriating. Several points - in the same week they made a 93 year old female leukemia patient take off her wet depends, they allowed a Nigerian with expired boarding pass in another name board an aircraft and fly. He had 15 other boarding passes in his bag. Hmmm= what else have Nigerians done-= well a few Christmases ago, one tried to set a plane on fire and cause a plane crash over Detroit but ended up just burning his privates because of the actions of brave passengers. TSA hasn't stopped a single terrorist incident but they sure have humiliated and acted rudel;y towards thousands of innocent passengers. I say profile - and no, not just by nationality. But 92 yo grandmas are not the typical terrorist. On the other hand, they are typical Depends wearers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by In The Great White North They don't do the pat downs unless you refuse the naked scanner, Wrong!!! That's what I had thought, too - but on our recent flight out of Philadelphia, I had to go through the scanner AND was patted down afterwards (my family walked through the old X-ray and that was it) __________________ But they had a scanner. I've never seen them do a pat down alone when they didn't have a scanner. They've always gone to pat downs (or searches) when the x-ray/scanner/metal detector turned something up (supposedly.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Just flew cross country and back. No problems. No pat downs. I saw lots of kids and no pat downs there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeFe Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 My son (14) will fly for the first time on Monday. He will be with his youth group, not me. I'm a little nervous about it but it's not because of the pat-downs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitworth Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Travel by airplane is by far the safest form of travel. One takes his life in hands every time one ventures onto a highway. Long distance driving at best produces fatigue, stress, bickering spouses and cranky children. Not the best way to start a family vacation. The hymn “Eternal Father Strong to Saveâ€, found in every Anglican hymnal, petitions God for safety of travelers and seamen against the “restless wave†and “mighty ocean deep†was written at a time when travel by sea was the most perilous mode of transportation. Today, what is needed on an uncertain venture to Disney World is a hymn for auto and turnpike. Nearer my God to thee is an appropriate selection; the musicians on the Titanic certainly thought so. That and clenching a rosary with a blessed medal of St. Christopher may provide some solace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 TSA has just changed its policy with regard to children and pat downs. http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/06/TSA-Screeners-will-try-to-avoid-intrusive-patdowns-of-kids/48752944/1 That being said, I am not a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 As far as personal rights go, I feel that I have a right to get on a plane where no one is carrying a weapon. :iagree: I think denying your children a relationship w/their grandparents in protest of TSA policies is a little extreme. I haven't had any problems with security and my kids. We don't fly that much, but it's been fine when we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) We flew to Hawaii a month ago. We found TSA to be very accommodating with the kids. Talking and joking with them. Both ways, they sent dd's and I through the standard metal-detectors. Both had the scanners. One of them, they made dh do the scanner. I don't know if that's official policy or not. But, it did happen in 2 different airports. ETA. I've read the horror stories and I was worried. But, that just wasn't our experience. This was our experience. I went through the regular metal detector with the kids and DH was told to go through the scanner. No one was patted down. What do they do in Israel? Edited July 5, 2011 by Kleine Hexe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 My younger two were with us this morning and are in Jamaica on a mission trip as I type, so... I voted yes. ;) They aren't that young, but even if they were, that wouldn't have stopped us from letting them fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 But my real question: is anyone actually not flying because of TSA's methods? Alley The farthest we would have to travel is 900 miles which is driveable. Even if flying was cost effective, I would not fly because of the way security is being handled. I absolutely refuse, adamantly refuse, to allow anyone to touch my child's body or my body in the name of safety. I know they don't know me, but I know that we are not terrorists so I'm not going to subject any of us to proving we are okay. If an emergency happens with my MIL or any of my in-laws that live 900 miles away, DH can decide to fly if he feels the need to get there quickly but I will be driving with my children. Period. No negotiation. I'm stunned and disgusted at the horror stories, like the most recent one where the 95-year old wheelbound dying lady was forced to remove her Depends because it felt hard to the security officers. OMG! Our regular visit is yearly anyway, so driving is not that big of a deal. If we were supposed to visit monthly, I could see where it would become more of a hassle. But I would still choose driving over flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We will fly if it's convenient to do so. I don't care--not one iota--how nice the TSA agents might be or how well trained. I have had negative experiences with TSA agents as well as neutral. It's the principle. Our Constitution protects us against unreasonable search and seizure. The searches will not protect us effectively, and they are being conducted upon people who have not given cause. Our country is subjecting law-abiding citizens to searches as though we are criminals. I also object to being forced to accept a new and poorly tested medical procedure (scanners). This is a massive experiment that may or may not have ramifications for our health. I object to the idea that a stranger gets to see my naked body or that of my child, or that we have to subject to being groped. This is offensive. We will no longer be a free country if we continue to accept the erosion of our personal liberties in the name of "safety." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 we fly often. the children were only patted down going into israel two years ago. we would not stop flying... fwiw, ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 My dh just went through some different major airports on business trips and said that the full body scanners weren't being used and no pat-downs were taking place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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