Would you take this kid on college tours?

[Drama Llama]

My 10th grader didn't do very well on the PSAT and he is kind of freaked out.  I am not surprised or worried, I assumed he'll be applying test optional, but he's in somewhat of a pressure cooker environment, and there is a lot of talk about top schools, and I think it's just triggered his anxiety.

Several times over the next 8 months we are going to be in cities with lots of colleges, and I am wondering about setting up some tours at nice test optional not super selective schools, in hopes that he can see that there will be plenty of nice options, even if his scores aren't amazing.  

But another part of me thinks that 10th grade is just too early.

What has been your experience?

[GoVanGogh]

I would do college tours, but in a very low-key, low stress way. 

[fraidycat]

Do you have to set up formal tours, or could you just go walk around to get a feel for the campus? Maybe take in a game at the school or something since you're in town anyway.

I don't think 10th grade is too early if he's already getting anxious about it. A low key, no pressure campus visit might help dial down the anxiety.

[athena1277]

There’s nothing wrong with going in 10th grade, especially if he is interested.  My oldest was really interested in a particular college at that age that we both heard a lot of good things about, but had never beer too.  We did a campus visit in 10th to see it first hand and get a lot of questions answered.

[Harriet Vane]

I found that my kids as well as other kids in my orbit really appreciated seeing a wide variety of college settings. It demystifies it and takes out the awe and grandeur. I started my kids on college tours as 9th graders. It became a completely ho-hum thing to do. They appreciated being able to process the "feel" of different types of campuses (city, suburban, country, public, private, big, little, etc.).

[Halftime Hope]

10th grade is a great time to inspire, to get a feel for the vibe on different campuses, to go on preview days just to catch a vision for what one possible future might feel like. Although we used the idea a bit later in my daughter's journey, an reasonably appropriate analogy is for the teen to view the visit like trying on an outfit or a costume: what would it feel like to be a part of this particular setting? 

[gardenmom5]

If you are already going to be in the cities, and have time, sure why not.  Does the 10th grader want to do that?
I'd make sure it wasn't overwhelming (you can always cancel a tour), and no pressure.

[Katy]

I’d do it. College visits clarified so much for me as a kid I think it’s a great idea to do it early.

[Hannah]

If you're already there then I'd definitely do it.  It makes a difference to know what a college looks and feels like when it is time to make those choices.  Chat to students if you can.

One of my children realised just how far from home a particular campus really was when we went there and decided to choose one closer to home.  The actual travelling made it real for her.

[Ottakee]

I would say sure, do some low key visits.

as an aside, does your local school ISD offer a tech/career center where students can go half days to learn hands on trades?   If he has any interest in that I would apply for a slot there.   Things like auto mechanics, constriction, paramedic, computers, graphic design, hvac etc. 

[MEmama]

10th grade was perfect for my kid (also, Covid hit the following year so we were extra glad to have started when we did). It wasn't "early" amongst his friends. 

[DawnM]

I might be the wrong person to ask.   My kids all seemed to know exactly where they wanted to go (except my second son, but that is a whole story in itself.).  

We went on exactly ONE college tour per child.   

None of them chose super selective schools and went to the colleges they wanted to go to.   And none got super high SAT or ACT scores but they did get good grades in our local public high school.

It will all be fine.   

[ScoutTN]

Sure, if you are already going to be there. The vibe of a school is important and visiting helps you get that. As others have said, do it super low key. 

[historically accurate]

My middle, then7th grader, tagged along on a college visit for my 10th grader. We just happened to have a spare day since the elevators weren't working in the cave we were planning to visit, so we made a spur of the moment decision to visit the college on the way home. 10th grader was, meh, 7th grader loved it LOL. That college is now, after many more college visits, my middle DD's (now a senior) first choice school.

We did a couple while on vacation as the kids moved into high school, including the one mentioned above. We toured Flagler College more for the Tiffany stained glass than as a college, but one child was intrigued enough to look further into it before discarding it as an option. We did some things at the local state schools while the kids were little partly to get kids used to the "college" look and feel.

The two kids who have done the testing (one is set for comm college and won't need them) didn't get super high scores, although they are more than college ready. Neither have had any trouble being accepted at a variety of schools, although neither of them wanted super selective schools. 

I'd keep it light, but start the process. Oldest didn't get as many school visits in due to covid hitting, and younger decided she's done visiting at this point.

[Terabith]

I wouldn’t take a tenth grader on a trip specifically to tour a bunch of colleges, but I absolutely would tour colleges if we happened to be near them anyway.  I know some folks who were really grateful they’d done that when covid shut everything down while they needed to apply.  

[mlktwins]

I would for sure. That was my plan, but Covid happened. I think it is good to start early and be low stress. It becomes high stress the closer you get to application time and they have a lot of other things on their plates - senior year classes, exams (SAT, ACT, AP), college applications, essays.

[Bambam]

I would. I would prefer the open houses the colleges have here vs. a specific tour set up for us - just because that is more low key, you aren't singled out for any one-on-one conversation. you are just part of a large group. 

My youngest, 3 years younger, tagged along when we started taking her older sister. It was useful to her to start to get an idea of things. We started when oldest was in 10th grade - mostly because we were busy and it was a convenient time and as they get older, they typically get busier, so it was going to be harder to find the time to visit. 

But I would also let kid know that (assuming it is true), he doesn't have to go to college. There are trade schools (never been to one even though there is a good one in the town next to us - and they do open houses in the fall and spring too). And there are other options for what to do post-high school. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Bambam

[Faith-manor]

I had three stair step boys so when the eldest went on college tours, the others tagged along. It was great for them. Middle boy ruled out two colleges during his 10th grade year as not being good fits, but also added one to his list. Youngest had so many experiences that he was quite solid on where he wanted to apply by his junior year just from all the tag- a longs.

One year it was a big road trip. We visited 8 colleges in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota during late September. Mark couldn't take time off from work so my mom went with us. She had so much fun, and the boys loved having her there. She often had some neat grandma insights on everything from the campus feel to dorm layouts to food to well just all kinds of things. College visits can be very exciting for kids and help them ramp up for the pressure of senior year.

We also found it was super helpful to go early because the college app season starts so early these days, has so !such essay writing and what not, process is longer, and the best scholarships and financial aid seems to go to the early birds so on top of dual enrollment, AP's, senioritis, etc. a ton of this happens in September and October right at the beginning of the school year. In addition, kids who get invited to scholarship competitions will have travel as well. Not only is it great to have the list narrowed before even embarking on the process, it is especially nice to not have the "Is this school even an option for me?" type visits over with.

For our dd, 6 years older than her eldest brother, we took her best friend along. BF's parents both worked full time and one had a major health problem so they weren't going to do any college visits. She and DD were interested in several of the same colleges so we just took her with us. We have a ton of wonderful memories of traveling with them, seeing campuses, discussing options, helping them narrow their focus, figuring out good fits.

Definitely do it!

[SKL]

I would look for opportunities to be on the college campuses but not in a "college tour" structure.

Examples:  camps or other activities held on the campus for high school students; enjoying an arts performance/exhibition on the campus; or just having lunch at the campus food court (parking strategically so you can roam around on the grounds before and after).

Ask the nearby state universities what their requirements are for acceptance.  The one my kids applied to has a minimum GPA of 2.3 and is test optional.  It's not a fancy school, but it's a good school with reasonably competitive outcomes (given a student who isn't wow going in).

[EKS]

I'd walk around some college campuses but not take any official tours unless my student was interested in doing so.  I wouldn't make a big thing out of it, just make it another activity.

[teachermom2834]

I have a tenth grader and I’ve encouraged her to dismiss the college talk at her school because I think it is all too much too soon too high pressure when in the end the chips fall where they fall and most of the kids go to decent schools and it all works out and it wasn’t worth all the hyperventilating from middle school on.

That said, while I wouldn’t schedule a tour for her, I am looking at her and realizing that she is in 10th grade and in a blink she is going to be in 11th and then it really is time. She just registered for the ACT (at her own interest) and discussions are starting in a low key way. She is looking at summer programs. 
 

So even though I am very anti- college pressure in early high school even I am saying it isn’t too early and I’d do that for my dd if it was convenient and laid back. So if you can do this for your kid in a low pressure way then sure. 

If it is going to stress him out or if the adults will not be able to contain themselves and stay chill, then I say no. But if you can do it and stay relaxed then yes. Things really do get busy and it just is harder to schedule these kind of visits than it seems like it should be. 

[catz]

I had a younger kid tagging along on college tours too.  We first did a couple tours when my oldest was this age.   I think it is fine doing an official tour if your kid is interested.  But we often found it interesting just walking around, eavesdropping, etc.  I think it was helpful for them to get a sense of what a dorm looks like.  What a big vs. medium vs. small school felt like.  What a rural vs. suburban vs. urban school might feel like.  I even kind of feel like visiting some super competitive schools deflated that bubble a bit for my super high stat kid.  There are still a lot of young people walking around acting like typical young adults.  With fancier laptops and clothes than maybe their state schools or LACs that might give good merit.  I might even visit the closest directional state school, community college, etc.  

This is a good time to get a sense of how you might need to shop for colleges as well in terms of financing.  Like we were merit shopping specifically.  Which is different than being able to be full pay everywhere vs. focusing on those schools that can be generous with need based aid.  Net price calculators and common data sets can paint a picture.  

And whether I had a kid that was good at testing or not, I would severely downplay the competitive college game at home and in college discussion.  There are lots of great, affordable ways to get higher ed and reach academic goals.  I encouraged my kid to keep test scores and schools they were interested in and applying to on the down low.  And if finances may be an issue, throwing your apps to the wind and keeping an open mind is important.  The concept of a dream school is college marketing at work.  Many great options out there for any student.

[wintermom]

4 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I would say sure, do some low key visits.

as an aside, does your local school ISD offer a tech/career center where students can go half days to learn hands on trades?   If he has any interest in that I would apply for a slot there.   Things like auto mechanics, constriction, paramedic, computers, graphic design, hvac etc. 

This is a really good idea, as there are plenty of well-paid highly skilled jobs available at tech colleges. My mom brought myself and my siblings to the open house days at our local tech college. It was really interesting to explore the multitude of professions available. My sister did end up going to this tech college. Many of my own nieces and nephews went to tech college. It's a great way to get in and out of secondary education quickly and get into the workforce. Many programs offer upgrading to degrees as well.

It's nice for youth to see a variety of options available, as so often college is seens at the only means to a good career. 

[catz]

Oh is this your music interested kid?  If you are in these cities visiting otherwise, check the music or theater calendars of these schools.  That can be a great, fun, low key way to take in a college environment/vibe without dedicating hours to a tour, info session, etc. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by catz

[Heartstrings]

I'm not sure I would take him to see top colleges if you don't think they are likely possibilities for him.  I'd be worried that he would be really impressed with the nice colleges and then be really disappointed by the campus and amenities at the "lower tier" colleges that are more likely for him to attend, or decide to bury himself in debt to go the nicer college over more affordable and practical schools. I know we can't afford for my kids to attend top colleges even if they got great scholarships so I wouldn't spend time showing them what they can't have.  My thought is that no one is content with a Honda Civic after test-driving Ferraris, no matter how practical and affordable the Civic is. 

[Ottakee]

47 minutes ago, wintermom said:

This is a really good idea, as there are plenty of well-paid highly skilled jobs available at tech colleges. My mom brought myself and my siblings to the open house days at our local tech college. It was really interesting to explore the multitude of professions available. My sister did end up going to this tech college. Many of my own nieces and nephews went to tech college. It's a great way to get in and out of secondary education quickly and get into the workforce. Many programs offer upgrading to degrees as well.

It's nice for youth to see a variety of options available, as so often college is seens at the only means to a good career. 

And doing a tech program their junior and senior year of highschool is usually free and gives great skills.  They can still go to college when they are done as well.

[Dmmetler]

Yes. You never know what will happen between 10th and 12th grade. 

I had a 2021 senior, and I am very, very glad we'd visited at least some schools in 9th-first semester of 11th so my kid had an idea of what "normal" college operations looked like and it made it easier to visualize what it would be like while making those decisions. 

 

[catz]

2 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

decide to bury himself in debt to go the nicer college over more affordable and practical schools.

Students can only take out federal loans on their own.  Which is typically 5500 freshman year, going up, topping at about 28K over 4 years.  That is the current cap.  Anything else requires a parental loan or a cosign.  Which is really risky unless a parent has the means to comfortably pay it off.

Anyway - this is why it's good to talk early and often about financial constraints.  Not every option is open to every student. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, catz said:

Students can only take out federal loans on their own.  Which is typically 5500 freshman year, going up, topping at about 28K over 4 years.  That is the current cap.  Anything else requires a parental loan or a cosign.  Which is really risky unless a parent has the means to comfortably pay it off.

Somehow people are going into way more debt than that, I’m guessing private loans?  I’ve never dealt with that so I don’t know how it all works. There are plenty of stories of people with $60k+ loans for undergrad.  
 

I agree with keeping financial feasibility in mind. I know that some schools that offered decent scholarships to my son but the school was still far out of our reach.  A$20k per year scholarship seems impressive until you see that that still leaves $20k or $30k a year.  
 

  That was my point about not looking at colleges with amazing campuses that are far out of the price range possible.  It just sets up dissatisfaction with what is affordable.  
 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Terabith]

I think it’s especially important when a kid is in a pressure cooker environment to explicitly show how unusual that is and that you can absolutely go to a good fit for you college ( if you choose) without being the best of the best.  The vast majority of colleges accept the vast majority of students.  And there’s a lot more financial aid out there than a lot of kids think, even for pretty typical kids.  

[catz]

9 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Somehow people are going into way more debt than that, I’m guessing private loans?  I’ve never dealt with that so I don’t know how it all works. There are plenty of stories of people with $60k+ loans for undergrad.  
 

Oh absolutely.  In some cases it is through grad school.  But at that point you are on your own and hopefully have some financial perspective.

But in many cases it's because parents take out parent plus loans on the understanding the kid will make the payments or a parent will consign on a large private loan.  17 year old kids applying for undergrad typically cannot get themselves in this much debt without someone signing on for it.  Maybe some parents walk through what repayment will look like on those.  But plenty of students definitely feel duped after they are in that situation and are making payments.  A 17 year old isn't going to have a lot of perspective on what a $500-$1000+ a month payment looks like for years and years and how it will great limit their options in life.  

Anyway, that is all an aside.  But, I really think the onus is on the adults in the room to set a budget and keep the process real.  If you can do that earlier, it is better.  We did end up visiting some high end schools because my kid was looking at music programs and they don't exactly publicly advertise what music scholarships look like.  We had a much better sense for kid #2.  But we did tell kid #1 out of the gate the bottom line would matter.  So it wasn't super tragic that kid visited a couple high end schools that weren't ever likely to be affordable.  We always just spoke like were looking at fit and we'll see where the financial piece lands.  There was no "dream school".  

[Drama Llama]

14 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I would say sure, do some low key visits.

as an aside, does your local school ISD offer a tech/career center where students can go half days to learn hands on trades?   If he has any interest in that I would apply for a slot there.   Things like auto mechanics, constriction, paramedic, computers, graphic design, hvac etc. 

It does, I don't think it's for him.  He's pretty clear that he wants to be a music therapist or music teacher, and he'd be really good at both of those.  He loves the kids he coaches on swim team and special olympics, loves music, and is something of a child whisperer.  

In reality, there are plenty of great programs in music ed or music therapy that are at schools where the academic bar for entry isn't terribly high.  The music bar is high, and I think he can reach it, but he's worried about his not great not terrible score when the schools I think he'll end up liking are either test optional, or have an SAT range he can hit, or most commonly both.  So, he's very worried about test scores that likely won't matter at all.  

But he's also at a school where the median SAT is more than 300 points higher than the national average, or the median at our local public school.  So, while his scores are decent, most of his friends and classmates got higher scores, and some of them are freaking out about scores that are significantly higher than his.  

[Dmmetler]

If he could visit a school that would likely be a good fit and talk to the faculty, they might put the "test scores aren't good enough" to rest. Because, honestly, even at highly competitive schools, the music department tends to be less concerned about test scores than any other indicator. And if he decides he's happy at a school where his scores are comfortable for admissions and is affordable, that might help him get off the treadmill a bit. 

 

For both music ed and music therapy, you really want a school that won't require debt, because neither is a high paying career, and both have a (usually )unpaid internship requirement to get certified. 

 

And, a little humor....

The Holderness family takes on college admissions!

[prairiewindmomma]

Does he want to go on tours?

Are finances in any way shaping where he will go? IME,  the difficulty is not in where you can get in. There is a place for everyone, somewhere. It's really around what you can afford to take on.  I find it really insane when people talk up universities where tuition + board = a champagne lifestyle when they can't even afford a 6 pack of beer.

[Acadie]

Great ideas on this thread! 

Sophomore year we took our daughters to a few different types of campuses, to help them get a sense if they liked small or large school vibe, rural/surburban/urban, in or out of state etc. I'd keep it low key with just an info session + group tour, so it feels fairly anonymous. Maybe on your own walk through a department or facilities of interest. It's helpful to look around on group tours and see if you can picture your kid finding their people among any of the enrolled and prospective students around you, and I'd definitely focus on schools that seem like a potential fit. 

Love the idea of checking out tech or community college programs in your area to see if any programs seem like a potential fit. Another way to keep things broad and exploratory at this point. You and your teen might identify settings or directions that give you more clarity, focus and confidence for future steps. 

ETA: Seconding @prairiewindmomma about finances and practicality. We only visited schools where cost and logistics seemed doable. You can run net price calculators and check cost of attendance on college websites. For us the geographic limit was a 12-hour drive from home, and given Covid and health stuff with our eldest I'm glad her school is within driving distance. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Acadie

[catz]

DramaLlama, if it helpful at all, my kid that is a freshman this year was a straight music applicant and applied test optional.  She had 2 ACT tests cancelled on her through covid and with the music audition process etc we just kind of gave up on it.  She is kind of a nervous tester even though she'd score super high on individual sections in practice.  

Anyway, honestly, didn't seem to hurt her at all with regards to merit, admissions, etc.  She did dual enroll a lot of credits with a strong (but not perfect) GPA.  I'm sure you'll find a great fit.  And especially with music, I think teacher fit for primary instrument is important.  Music teachers can be quirky and not every teacher is not a fit for every student.

[Drama Llama]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Does he want to go on tours?

I haven't asked him yet.  I think he'd be fine with going.  I really want him to walk around a campus that's got a program of interest with him, where he is likely to get in.  Ironically, if you look at the list of schools that offer Music Therapy, there are only a few schools that are highly selective, and lots of great schools that aren't.  He could get rejected based on music, of course, but I don't think he's going to be turned away based on SATs.  

So, what he's hearing from his classmates, that you have to go to a top 50 school or your life is over, and you need perfect scores and an impeccable GPA to get there, just doesn't seem like reality.  

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Are finances in any way shaping where he will go? IME,  the difficulty is not in where you can get in. There is a place for everyone, somewhere. It's really around what you can afford to take on.  I find it really insane when people talk up universities where tuition + board = a champagne lifestyle when they can't even afford a 6 pack of beer.

Finances are something of a concern, but not a huge concern.  We are kind of the poor relations in the family (we're not poor at all, just in comparison) and so his 529 is pretty well funded through gifts from grandparents and aunts and uncles.  But there are also a lot of state schools that I think would be good fits anyway, although there's not a great option in state.  

[catz]

As you get to know schools and are on campuses, ask how many spots they have specifically for music therapy (or more casually, how many music therapy students are there?  Do many people apply to the program?).  Like our state flagship has a great music therapy program that is on that list and our flagship is not crazy competitive.  But they have limited spots for music therapy students and the program is described as highly competitive.  We happen to know someone on faculty and one of my kids took classes through that school of music.  She did audition there.

I wouldn't do this now, but if you're visiting into junior or early senior year, you can contact music faculty directly for a sample lesson and they may give a lot more info if they are in a talking mood.  Some faculty will set up a meeting over zoom too.

Music admissions is such a quirky beast.  The admissions rate in music might have an average that might be totally different for a voice student vs. a violinst vs a harp  and subcategories balancing with how many auditioners might show up in a given year.   Which may be drastically lower than the acceptance rate for the school overall.  

[Dmmetler]

Music therapy is often fairly competitive, but usually you get into the music school and then apply for the program after a couple of semesters of prerequisites, and it's not uncommon for music ed to be the same. Realistically, the number of people who change majors out of music in the first couple of semesters, realizing that they're happier elsewhere and maybe playing in the band, is super high no matter what school you're at, so it's less competitive than it looks. 

[Katy]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:42 PM, Drama Llama said:

It does, I don't think it's for him.  He's pretty clear that he wants to be a music therapist or music teacher, and he'd be really good at both of those.  He loves the kids he coaches on swim team and special olympics, loves music, and is something of a child whisperer.  

In reality, there are plenty of great programs in music ed or music therapy that are at schools where the academic bar for entry isn't terribly high.  The music bar is high, and I think he can reach it, but he's worried about his not great not terrible score when the schools I think he'll end up liking are either test optional, or have an SAT range he can hit, or most commonly both.  So, he's very worried about test scores that likely won't matter at all.  

But he's also at a school where the median SAT is more than 300 points higher than the national average, or the median at our local public school.  So, while his scores are decent, most of his friends and classmates got higher scores, and some of them are freaking out about scores that are significantly higher than his.  

Most of his peers concerned about test scores are probably taking pricey test-prep classes or getting test-prep tutoring.

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I haven't asked him yet.  I think he'd be fine with going.  I really want him to walk around a campus that's got a program of interest with him, where he is likely to get in.  Ironically, if you look at the list of schools that offer Music Therapy, there are only a few schools that are highly selective, and lots of great schools that aren't.  He could get rejected based on music, of course, but I don't think he's going to be turned away based on SATs.  

So, what he's hearing from his classmates, that you have to go to a top 50 school or your life is over, and you need perfect scores and an impeccable GPA to get there, just doesn't seem like reality.  

Finances are something of a concern, but not a huge concern.  We are kind of the poor relations in the family (we're not poor at all, just in comparison) and so his 529 is pretty well funded through gifts from grandparents and aunts and uncles.  But there are also a lot of state schools that I think would be good fits anyway, although there's not a great option in state.  

Ya. That top 50 thing is an awful lot of hype from those schools to try to make kids think it is true, but it isn't at all. Two of my kids went to "public ivy" U of Michigan, and the education was not half as good as what my youngest got at a well reputed, regional university. The "rankings" have little to do with the intricacies of individual majors. There are some fields where the top 50 is pretty necessary, med school seeking students, several specific niche areas within physics and chemistry, music performance for sure. But music ed and therapy does not need a top 50 music department, and actually can be counterproductive because of the emphasis on tippy top performance for concert careers that are not likely to materialize for 90% of the students.

I think it would be really great to have your student meet some music therapists and talk to them about the job, and their experiences in college.

I feel sad for young people putting so much pressure on themselves. It is college. Not the end of the universe. The vast majority of successful humans did not get into tippy top college. Yet, they are doing great!

 

[Terabith]

5 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

. There are some fields where the top 50 is pretty necessary, med school seeking students

I am actually pretty sure this is not true.  Was at an admitted students day at Roanoke College, which is a good but not in any way amazing or notable liberal arts college of about 2000 students, and their med school acceptance rate for applicants who have a 3.5 is 95%.  

A LOT of small liberal arts colleges have truly excellent med school acceptance rates.  

[catz]

The acceptance rate at our flagship’s music therapy program runs around 10%.  It may have been a bit higher during Covid.   It does make some top 10 music therapy lists and has a clinic on campus which is unique.   When we were first looking at music programs I was pretty surprised by how competitive some programs were for some tracks/instruments.  Even sometimes at schools and programs no one chatters about as a “best” program.   It’s good to have a non auditioned safety option available just in case.   But yes, students drop, other students may try and audition in after admission to another program, etc.    I am sure some are more or less competitive, maybe some can be more flexible with their numbers.  Studio space is pretty finite in a lot of programs.  

But I wouldn’t worry at all about test scores with a kid at a good school with strong academics.  Audition and interview will definitely be more important!  But. on the upside, this kiddo can roll eyes and say “you guys don’t even know!  Music admissions is the worst!” When they start droning on about test scores and options.  And he wouldn’t be wrong.   😂   It really is a ton of extra work and a bit of a guessing game. 

[Drama Llama]

13 hours ago, catz said:

The acceptance rate at our flagship’s music therapy program runs around 10%.  It may have been a bit higher during Covid.   It does make some top 10 music therapy lists and has a clinic on campus which is unique.   When we were first looking at music programs I was pretty surprised by how competitive some programs were for some tracks/instruments.  Even sometimes at schools and programs no one chatters about as a “best” program.   It’s good to have a non auditioned safety option available just in case.   But yes, students drop, other students may try and audition in after admission to another program, etc.    I am sure some are more or less competitive, maybe some can be more flexible with their numbers.  Studio space is pretty finite in a lot of programs.  

But I wouldn’t worry at all about test scores with a kid at a good school with strong academics.  Audition and interview will definitely be more important!  But. on the upside, this kiddo can roll eyes and say “you guys don’t even know!  Music admissions is the worst!” When they start droning on about test scores and options.  And he wouldn’t be wrong.   😂   It really is a ton of extra work and a bit of a guessing game. 

I am very curious what state you are in.

I don't know how to figure out how competitive a program is, separately from the school as a whole.  How did you find that statistic?  

[catz]

12 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I am very curious what state you are in.

I don't know how to figure out how competitive a program is, separately from the school as a whole.  How did you find that statistic?  

You are welcome to PM me if you want a longer version.  I could drone on all day.  😂  My kid was in a music studio at a collge's school of music as a dual enroll student while going through college auditions.  There was a music therapy student in that studio.  We developed a good relationship with that teacher and just ended up being super forthcoming with info about the process with us.  Their website does say the music therapy program is "highly competitive" for admissions.  It does require both an audition and an interview.  I got the feeling at least at this program, it has to be 3 independant YES's - from the admissions office, from the therapy program interview, and from the primary instrument audition team.  And that it might depend on what ensemble needs and studio space are in a particular year.  Such a quirky process.  So it's possible 25% of trombones might get in one year and 60% the next year.  I'm sure this is why most schools don't bother being specific.  Some music programs may have pull in admissions office, this is probably less common in a public university.   

Even if you find stats on music programs, they may not be super meaningful.  You might find some stat, but that number might mean 90% for upright basses and 10% for sopranos in a given year.  Next year if your musician has the opportunity to do some sample lessons, we found some teachers may be  forthcoming with info like this.  They may talk about merit scholarships, studio space, how the process goes, etc.  You can also sometimes chat with people in the music admissions office and get a sense of this.   But otherwise it can be hard to glean exact info.  I had no perspective on any of this before my first kid started the process, it is a little bit bonkers.  

Many music applicants often apply to 6-12 schools.  And then may also have a non-auditioned option or plan B in the wings (and that could just be a BA non-auditioned path).  A good private teacher can really help guide this process too or may have contacts with faculty in programs, etc.  

As an aside, we know a couple students who have attended Baldwin Wallace through auditioned programs and have had a great experience.  These small LAC music programs seem so welcoming, I really imagined my kids at one but other things happened for them.  And again, I would not sweat test optional at all for a music applicant!  Especially one attending a strong school that launches many students to college.