Age or maturity level - makeup, cellphone, babysitting, dating

[alysee]

My oldest is 12. She is quite mature and helpful since she is the first born. We have always said those big adolescent events would happen when our kids were in high school typically age 14.

For my second born I can see the age of 14 being good for her but for my first we have been thinking about softening the rules for her to maybe 12. 

Have you ever had different rules for different kids based on maturity and how they act? What do you think I should do in this situation? 

[Bambam]

For us, privileges were based on maturity and illustrated responsibility levels.  Cell phone was also based on need (child left at places and needed to be able to contact me if she needed to be picked up early). 

If I had been telling my kids that you get this privilege when you are 14, and that's what they have been expecting, I'd have to really sit down and think it through how this will play out for the youngers, and how I'm going to have to explain to them. I would still probably expect accusations of unfairness/playing favorites/etc (your kids may be different!)

I think this is definitely something to sit down with DH and discuss and think about. Something else to consider - does oldest want these things now? 

[HomeAgain]

We tie privilege to responsibility.  It's not the age so much, as the demonstrated ability to handle the increased responsibility.

I will say that I don't have a girl, but our plan if we did was always to teach responsible makeup: sitting down and going over age appropriate out of the house wear vs. experimenting in the house, and how to do make up well.  And while dating could be seen as a maturity thing, the fact is that two people's maturity levels need to be factored in.  We spent a lot of time with our oldest in middle and high discussing and showing what responsible dating looked like: getting to know each other in a group, being comfortable and friendly, what physical steps are safeguarded...we would not have been okay with him dating at 12 or being a part of that pressure from outside sources.  We would have been (and were) fine with him going to a dance and having a mixed group of friends.

[Emba]

Well, however you explain it, your 2nd born will probably still expect that if older sister got to do things at 12, so will she and will feel it’s unfair if she don’t get to. Whether it is unfair is a different matter, but it will probably be a headache.

[teachermom2834]

I found it worked better to be flexible and not have the hard and fast rules tied to age. Kids are different, family dynamics, social settings, finances, etc. just change over time. Sometimes we learn from our oldest kids and want to adjust. So all those responsibilities and privileges came on as needed or warranted basis.  
 

Other families stick hard to those age milestones and feel like that works really well for them and keeps things “fair”. We really needed the ability to adjust and flex with life and kids and I don’t regret it at all. In some ways it is harder because you have to be constantly evaluating rather than just having a rule but it is better for us. 
 

My oldest is a 24 yo man now. Phones and life were a lot different ten years ago and the rules he had at 14 yo wouldn’t make sense for my current 14 yo dd. But we had kids every couple years in there and if we had been going by milestone rules without adjusting per life and kid we would be either enforcing the same rules on her or being “unfair”. 
 

In general we have so few hard and fast rules. Always adjusting to circumstances and players. It is exhausting in the short term but we just have needed to flex to make things make sense. 
 

Eta: I was thinking more about phones than makeup. My boys weren’t into makeup so that wasn’t a rule I’m referring to. More like phones and other freedoms and responsibilities 

Edited September 23, 2022 by teachermom2834

[regentrude]

29 minutes ago, alysee said:

My oldest is 12. She is quite mature and helpful since she is the first born. We have always said those big adolescent events would happen when our kids were in high school typically age 14.

I am confused about the bolded -I don't consider wearing makeup remotely in the same league as babysitting or dating.
My kids got cell phones when they needed them. Which was at different ages; one at 10, the other at 12. I see no point in an arbitrary age cutoff.
Dating - clarify what that means. No, I would not let a12 year old, no matter how mature, go out alone with a young man, but I'd have no problem with a mixed-gender group going to the movies. What I would permit would also depend on the boy, and not just on own my kid, so with that additional factor, I can't see a hard age limit making sense.
Babysitting: definitely depends on maturity, your state's laws, and the child's desire to even do that. I would not let a mature 12 y/o take responsibility for other people's children when they are barely old enough to legally stay home alone.

Any privilege requires enough responsibility. that responsibility is something I assess for each child and each situation; it does not automatically come at a certain age. My kids were different, and they did different things at different ages when I deemed them ready.

Edited September 23, 2022 by regentrude

[kirstenhill]

Cell phone has been tied to need at our house too.  Oldest had a very basic pre-paid phone at age 11, because at that point she was staying home alone at times and had no house phone.  Next oldest got one at 12 after it was needed for a trip we were taking to an event (he and I were going to be in different places at a competition event, and he needed to be able to contact me), and he would have needed one soon after anyway because older DD was gone at work more often and he was starting to be home alone/babysitting younger brothers.  We now have an old cell phone w/only wifi that DS13 could use when he is home alone by himself or with DS10, but he has very little interest in it (I try hard to keep it charged for the possibility of 911 calls), but he would tend to send me a chat message on the computer if he has a non-emergency question while I'm gone. 

As far as babysitting, I would definitely see that as by maturity (and following laws in your state of course - it is allowed at age 11 where I live).  DD took a babysitting course at age 11 and was in demand as a mother's helper in our neighborhood we lived in at the time.  I think she started watching her brothers for short periods of time around age 12 and then for babysitting for neighbors, when they were comfortable with it (but at first I was always home and she was within walking distance if anything went wrong).   None of my DS's have had any interest in babysitting for anyone outside the family, so older boys watching younger boy(s) has again been by maturity.  Oldest DS has always been able to command the respect of his brothers, and they listen to him.  DS10 and DS13 tend to squabble more, so honestly it is harder to leave the two of them alone for very long, and DS13 is TBH less responsible.  So I rarely leave the two of them home alone together very long if I can help it.

Make-up and Dating...well DD was just very uninterested in either, and was probably over 16 before she asked to wear make-up and still has never dated anyone...none of my boys are the make-up types and none of them seem to be thinking about dating either, so we really haven't had to deal with that.  I think if I had a bunch of girls who were interested in makeup, I would set an arbitrary line of 12 or 13 for that, and find someone to teach them about tasteful makeup (I don't like wearing make-up so I wouldn't be able to teach that skill!).   Dating (at least, exclusive romantic dating) is not something we would really encourage as a part of our family culture, so TBH we would probably discourage that "going steady"/exclusive type of dating relationship until at least age 16 even if any of them were interested.

Edited September 23, 2022 by kirstenhill

[Ali in OR]

Things are often earlier for younger kids. Like older kid didn't get a phone until sophomore year in high school but I learned that she really needed it as a freshman because there was no way for her to call home if band practice got out early, no way to be in touch when she went to a band event, etc. So her younger sister had a phone before she started high school. And they got into makeup about the same time (they knew how to use it from years of ballet recitals at a younger age but experimented with more regular use when older was in high school and younger was in middle school).

Older started dating her boyfriend at age 20--I'm okay with that! Youngest never had a boyfriend in high school. I don't get to hear all the college details, but I don't think she's had one yet. I will say from teaching high school freshmen that it's best to avoid that drama at age 14/15. I would be okay with older high school years and of course college age is probably ideal for finding people with common life goals and interests.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Ali in OR

[Momto6inIN]

Remember all that hs'ing advice that said not to plan a full K-12 education for your preschoolers but to teach the kid in front of you at whatever level they are currently at taking it a year at a time? Same advice applies here 🙂

My advice is: Don't have hard and fast rules about when you do what that apply across the board regardless of circumstances and temperament. Parent the kid in front of you as an individual and try not to look too far into the future and make decisions about a mythical block of future teenagers that you haven't even met yet 😉

[Bootsie]

I did not find that it made sense to set ages beforehand of when a child would be allowed to do certain things.  Much depended on the maturity of the child and the particular situation.  My children got phones at a much earlier age than I would have thought they would if you had asked me when they were 8 or 9, but part of that was due to societal changes--quickly changing technology, the lack of pay phones, etc.  I could have spent a long time worrying about the right age for things like makeup and it would have been a total waste of time; DD is now in her mid 20s and doesn't have a clue of the difference between mascara and eyeliner and her response when asked if she would be a bridesmaid was "not if I have to wear makeup".  Same thing with pierced ears.  In my area many people pierce baby girls ears, for others it is a big event that at Age X you are allowed to get your ears pierced.  I know parents have agonized about whether that should be 8, or 12, or 13, or ....  It was never an issue with DD because she has never wanted her ears pierced.  

Some depends upon a child's interest and the environment in which it is taking place.  If I had a 12 year old who was really wanting to wear makeup, I would work with the child about types of makeup and places for it to be worn, encouraging a health self-image and good grooming.  If I were going to tie it to maturity at all, it would be that you can have makeup that you earn the money for and purchase.  I don't see much sense in setting rigid ages that it is "allowed".  That can be setting up unnecessary power struggles.  

[73349]

A parenting mantra I have retained (baby is now 14) is Watch the baby, not the clock.

The answers don't have to be the same for each topic (e.g., cell phone vs. dating), let alone for each child.

At our house, the cell phone was a Christmas present right before turning 14. DS had a good track record of keeping up with belongings (like a water bottle). The charging cord was not part of the gift--the phone is turned over to a parent for the night and charges where the he can't access it until it's returned to him in the morning. Rules include no downloading new apps without a parent's permission, no disclosing real name/age/location, and no texting people we don't know. We've got pretty good habits in place and will be comfortable loosening the reins as needed. We haven't had any issues.

Make-up would be an at-home pastime at first--an art hobby. Babysitting would be contingent on completing a Red Cross course and demonstration of maturity. Dating... I can't see allowing dating before high school with any kid; completion of a comprehensive sex ed course and indications of social maturity would be prerequisites. (DS is not there yet.)

[Rachel]

My oldest is only 14 and a boy, but I wouldn’t necessarily allow all those responsibilities at the same time. I have three kids with three very different personalities. They are also responsible in different ways about different things. 
 

I agree about not having hard and fast rules tied to age for these things. My 12 year old daughter has permission to wear makeup, which she very rarely chooses to do. I’ve allowed her to babysit in very specific situations but would not be comfortable with her babysitting in most situations. We didn’t give my son a phone until he was 14 and a freshman.

When my kids ask how old they have to be to have certain privileges I tend to approach it as, “your dad and I think 14 is an appropriate age for xyz, but are willing to discuss allowing earlier in the right situation.”

[Elizabeth86]

My oldest is just 10, so nothing major yet. My boys are 1.5 years apart with the oldest one being rather immature and the younger one very mature, so we have pretty much treated them the same forever. So anything the oldest can do, the younger is usually more ready already. 🤣 So, yeah we don’t have set ages, it just depends on the kid.

[marbel]

 We also went by need and maturity. I never set ages for anything as my mother had for me. 

1. phone: for a while the kids shared a phone as they didn't need it often and mostly didn't overlap. Then one started doing a lot of babysitting and we found that the people she babysat for had no landline, and thus without her own phone she would have no way to call for help, or to get a call from parents. That coincided with the other one having more activities outside the house with other people driving, etc. That probably happened around age 12 for the older, 11 for the younger. (My 2 kids are 18 months apart.)

2. babysitting: only one of mine babysat. Mostly she did mother's helper stuff in the beginning, till she took a Red Cross babysitting course, then "advertised" among people we knew. She also helped out in nursery and Sunday school in church so had exposure to helping care for little kids. 

3. makeup: I never bought makeup for my daughter, not even play makeup. When she started earning money by babysitting she started buying her own. We talked a bit about appropriateness of makeup in various situations, and left it at that. She always had a good eye for it and it was fine. My own mother had told me I could wear makeup at 18 (!) and so I would put mascara and such on at school and then clean it off before coming home. I didn't want my kid to be sneaking makeup. I think she was about 13 then. 

4. dating: this was a nonissue for us as my kids really had no one they were interested in dating till they were older. So I have nothing to say there. 

It was all pretty easy for us because of only 2 kids close in age, and their phone needs pretty much coincided. I will admit that I was afraid my son would be losing his phone all the time, but he never has. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by marbel

[catz]

For me it depends on circumstances, but there is no way I would set a hard age for one kid and change it for another in such a way that it would breed resentment.  Like for phones, they got one when I needed them to have one.  For my son that was at age 13 when he did his first regional youth theater production, he was the youngest in the cast and rehearsals would get out early and he would need to get ahold of us.  For my daughter, she was dancing 4-5 days a week at age 10 and they didn't have anyone regularly answering their phone or checking messages at their studio.  Their first phones had no data and were wifi only.  We had firm rules on use and docking them in a certain place.  They didn't go to bedrooms.

I don't see any particular reason to allow makeup early unless 12 year olds using make is a norm at a kid's school or something.  My daughter used makeup for dance/shows, so the shine was off that pretty fast.  She pretty much never wears makeup outside of performance now.  But I was open to her wearing a little starting at like 13.  

Dating seems circumstantial to me.  My kids have had crushes and a few dates/short term relationships through high school starting maybe about 15.  My son had all sorts of girls chasing him when he was younger.  But even my college student now doesn't really talk about dating and is just pretty academically focused.  We did encourage teens to be very academically engaged and to have a lot going on in general.  My kids did a lot of extracurriculars, but I would have pushed a job if they had a lot of free time.  But if they would have developed a strong interest in dating someone in particular, we likely would have rolled and compromised with that.   Honestly, I kind of feel like my dating in high school was ok but I did expend too much emotional energy on it.  I never push relationship expectations or norms on my kids.  I feel like it was expected you'd have serious relationships in high school when I was there.  

Babysitting seems circumstantial too.  Like I didn't let my kids babysit until they were willing to do a babysitting training course.  Only one kid did it and she was 13.  She babysat a little, but only for people we knew.  It seems like a kid wouldn't be excited about the course until they were motivated and ready to at least babysit a little bit.   And most parents these days aren't leaving infants with young kids.  

[PronghornD]

I don't understand why people even worry about makeup. My kid started experimenting with makeup at junior high age and didn't really get it right at first. But what is the risk? The kid looks a little silly? Kids gradually get better at it when allowed a free rein. And hopefully they don't develop the idea rampant in our culture that our appearance is all about attracting the opposite sex.  Makeup and dating have no inherent connection at all. I say let the kid experiment with how they want to look without any value judgment put on it.

[Carrie12345]

Things are pretty much based on maturity here, with no hard rules. My girls are 13 months apart, and were basically a pair, so most things happened together.

Non-gender-specific, I used to leave 16, 13, 12, 8, and 4yos home alone together. These days, I avoid leaving the now 15 and 11yos alone together any longer than absolutely necessary for fear of a duel to the death or house implosion. 
(No concerns when it’s only 1 of them.)

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Ali in OR said:

Things are often earlier for younger kids. Like older kid didn't get a phone until sophomore year in high school but I learned that she really needed it as a freshman because there was no way for her to call home if band practice got out early, no way to be in touch when she went to a band event, etc. So her younger sister had a phone before she started high school. And they got into makeup about the same time (they knew how to use it from years of ballet recitals at a younger age but experimented with more regular use when older was in high school and younger was in middle school).

Older started dating her boyfriend at age 20--I'm okay with that! Youngest never had a boyfriend in high school. I don't get to hear all the college details, but I don't think she's had one yet. I will say from teaching high school freshmen that it's best to avoid that drama at age 14/15. I would be okay with older high school years and of course college age is probably ideal for finding people with common life goals and interests.

This is what I have told my kids. Now is the time to be learning who you are and how to be friends with all kinds of people. Dating is a method of finding the person you might marry. If you are not ready to get married, don't date. Just be friends. It can be very difficult to disentangle the emotions once you start dating and go back to being "just friends"

[Clemsondana]

For those sorts of things, we don't have master plan - spouse and I discuss things as they start to become relevant so that we are on the same page.  For phones...at a certain point we got a third phone that we could send with either kid when they were at something that had a variable end time so that they could call us to pick them up.  That worked for years, until both kids got on sports teams that used the GroupMe app to communicate.  There is 1 account for each phone, so both kids would be in each others' groups under a common name.  That doesn't work, so we got another phone.  The kids have different rules for it's use.  For older, who only uses a phone for communication, there are no rules.  For younger, use is tied to completing school work and a few other responsibilites.  Older doesn't need a priviledge tied to responsibility because they are just a naturally responsible kid.

For make-up, I got some as soon as kid showed an interest, sometime in middle school  I got non-dramatic stuff - a creme-to-powder foundation, a blemish stick, a pale blush, a neutral eyeshadow crayon, some mascara, and some tinted lip balm.  That's what I usually wear when I'm wearing make-up, so it was easy to teach.  After a week, kid rarely wears it but is happy to have it in case she wants it.  But, if kid wanted to wear it every day, I'd be fine with it since it's a natural look.  

[SKL]

With the cell phone, I gave my kids theirs at the same age, but monitored and restricted based on how they behaved.

Babysitting - I wish either of my kids would want to do this.  🙂  I would allow it as soon as any responsible, trustworthy family wanted to employ them ... though there may be laws about this where you live.  My first babysitting job was when I was 10yo.  I started leaving my own kids "home alone" for short time periods at age 7 or 8 iirc, so I would definitely trust them to watch a younger kid by age 12.  (Of course excluding very young infants or otherwise fragile children, large numbers of kids, etc. ... logical limits.)

Makeup - any age can play with it at home.  Going out, my rule (until high school) was that I shouldn't be able to tell they were wearing make-up.  If a person looking at you can notice you're made up, it's too much.  My eldest was pretty good at using it without looking like a painted lady, so I was fine with that.

Dating - I don't know what to say about this.  Neither of my kids had that much of a crush before age 15.  Even now (going on 16), the one who is "dating" wants her sister or friend in the room with them at all times, which I totally approve!  I think 12 is too young for "dating" regardless of maturity.  Some 13yo girls may be ready for pairing off while still being in a group.  I really don't know when I'd feel comfortable letting them be alone together.  I'm not there yet.  Maybe age 35???

[HomeAgain]

51 minutes ago, PronghornD said:

I don't understand why people even worry about makeup. My kid started experimenting with makeup at junior high age and didn't really get it right at first. But what is the risk? The kid looks a little silly? Kids gradually get better at it when allowed a free rein. And hopefully they don't develop the idea rampant in our culture that our appearance is all about attracting the opposite sex.  Makeup and dating have no inherent connection at all. I say let the kid experiment with how they want to look without any value judgment put on it.

The risk is a child of 12 or 13 looking more like 17.  I would not want my middle schooler applying make up in such a way to make herself look older and attracting the attention and relationships of high school graduates.

You can say that makeup and dating have no connection, but that's not true in all situations.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

The risk is a child of 12 or 13 looking more like 17.  I would not want my middle schooler applying make up in such a way to make herself look older and attracting the attention and relationships of high school graduates.

You can say that makeup and dating have no connection, but that's not true in all situations.

IME a tween misusing make-up does not look older or more mature.  🙂  And properly-applied makeup doesn't make a tween look like a boy-chaser.

High school graduates who would pick a girl, "not knowing" her age, based on the use of excessive make-up, are predators.  Just my opinion.

[teachermom2834]

Random aside about the makeup- my parents had some very weird/very strict rules about makeup that have given me baggage into adulthood. So I have been very careful not to assign some sort of morality or power to this inanimate object 🙂 I don’t think anyone on this thread is doing that but I think we have discussed it here and other women have had similar experiences. My dd was never super into it but I definitely would have allowed playing with toy makeup, playing at home, experimenting and having fun with it, etc and then little by little as interested and not made it a big deal. 

[Elizabeth86]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

IME a tween misusing make-up does not look older or more mature.  🙂  And properly-applied makeup doesn't make a tween look like a boy-chaser.

High school graduates who would pick a girl, "not knowing" her age, based on the use of excessive make-up, are predators.  Just my opinion.

Tween aren’t misusing make up! They do a better job than I do. This was once the case, but not these days. 

[rebcoola]

We never made age based rules.  We always did things as they made sense for them/us.  My MDD needed a phone fairly young because of the their outside activities and we added features to it as they got older. Makeup is not a milestone at all here they can wear it when they ask are interested.  Babysitting they both took the classes at 12 but whether they were actually allowed to babysit depended on the situation.  Dating hasn't really come up here my Oldest isn't interested but again it would depend on group vs. alone etc

 

[Alice]

Makeup- I have no rules. My daughter just turned 13 and she’s experimented with makeup on and off for the past few years. I really do’t think she’s trying to make herself look older as much as it’s just fun to experiment with things like clothes and makeup and hair. 

Cell-phone- For us it was tied to need also. I will say with three kids that each kid tended to get things earlier. Part of that was personality/need and part of it was family culture. For example, my oldest went to college this year. I had resisted a lot of social media for my daughter and still don’t love it but she convinced me that her brother would Snap her on Snapchat as a way to communicate. And that has been true, I think they have some contact daily through Snapchat. So if you are really wedded to the idea of waiting until high school....I would be careful opening it up to your older daughter earlier. Your second daughter is just going to want whatever that much earlier. It’s easy to say it’s "maturity based" but that can be hard for a kid to understand and may just seem like favoritism to them. 

Babysitting- I would have been ok with my daughter babysitting this past summer , and she has just started to be asked. (Well, she did get asked last summer and then when I told them she was 11 they reconsidered. :)) I think that depends on your local laws and also on the situation and the kid and how responsible they are.

Dating- We don’t have hard and fast rules about this either but have just discussed it a lot and when it’s come up some have talked about it. My middle son has had a few "girlfriends". One was when he was 12-13. All that it meant was that they talked on the phone more than he did to other people. This summer (age 15) he had a girlfriend and they hung out at the pool together a few times and once went to the mall. He hung out at her house once with her parents there and she came to a family party we had here. They have since broken up, but are friends (I can’t really tell the difference.) Our experience has been if they can’t drive, it’s pretty easy to be very involved as a parent anyway because they can’t really go anywhere without you. I don’t love the idea of dating at a young age, I think it’s kind of a distraction and I’ve told my kids that. But at the same time, I’ve realized I can’t stop feelings. If they like someone, they will like them. I’d rather they tell us about who they are interested in and if they are "dating" and know what they are doing than have them keep it a secret. I’m not naive enough to think that if I outlaw dating that will stop the feelings. We know several families who do not allow dating under the age of 18 and in every scenario I know that their kids have dated someone behind their parents back. 

[bolt.]

I don't really have rules about these things.

I allow makeup experimentation (under supervision) from toddlerhood. I tend to oversee and give advice on the quality and price-point of the makeup they buy, but I don't make rules about style or application. (I'm not above trying to influence it a little though!)

They got a cellphone (no sim card, wifi only at first) when we gave them one, mostly for audiobooks. When they started to have need for texting and calling *us* we moved towards a sim card and a phone plan for them.

Babysitting was allowed any time after they completed a babysitting course -- which they could sign up for any time they met the age requirements for the course. One did it. The other has no interest in babysitting.

Dating is like friendship: no adult is going to tell you what to do with your heart.  Whether you call someone a dating partner name, or whether you are just friends, or who you are telling about your relationship status are all personal decisions. I give advice (carefully!) but I don't take a making-rules approach. I do make rules about where they can go, how often, how late, and 'Will parents be there?' -- but I have that permission-giving role in all of their friendships because they have to ask me if they are allowed go and do things. I govern that, but I don't govern how they feel about people or what labels they put on it.

So, there's a lot more coaching and a lot less rule-making in my family, I guess. I don't even know at what age I allowed this-or-that for each kid, and I don't think the kids memorized exactly how old each sibling was at each event. Like, was she 13y4m12d when we first got a tube of mascara instead of sharing mine? I don't know! Neither does anybody else.

Edited September 23, 2022 by bolt.

[Emba]

Phones have definitely happened only in an “as needed” basis, and my two older kids share a phone, with the older one having it more often.

i babysat in town at 12/13, people drove me out to their rural residences to babysit at night when I was 14 or 15, but I have not felt comfortable letting my DD babysit her youngest sibling at our rural house at night until she was able to drive. I did let her for shorter daytime periods at 15, but I definitely wouldn’t have let her babysit for other families until she was able to drive. But also, part of it has to do with personality. She would not have felt comfortable babysitting at the age I did ( though I do wonder a bit what people were thinking.)

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

The risk is a child of 12 or 13 looking more like 17.  I would not want my middle schooler applying make up in such a way to make herself look older and attracting the attention and relationships of high school graduates.

And what do you so when a child appears much more mature than their age completely without makeup? Makeup is no substitute for demeanor,  eloquence, and poise, all of which can make a young teen appear like an adult, without face paint.

Edited September 23, 2022 by regentrude

[SKL]

Yeah, one of mine has been told various times that she seemed older based on apparent maturity, but I don't think it's make-up.  I think my kid's make-up is age-appropriate, but she presents as a calm, "think before you act/speak" person in social situations.

Possibly, the same kid chose to use grade-appropriate makeup in middle school in order to not look like a baby.  When she was in upper elementary, some 8th graders asked her if she was from the KG class.  At middle school age, girls aren't trying to look like little kids.  😛

[bolt.]

14 minutes ago, regentrude said:

And what do you so when a child appears much more mature than their age completely without makeup? Makeup is no substitute for demeanor,  eloquence, and poise, all of which can make a young teen appear like an adult, without face paint.

That's absolutely true. Recently a young woman started coming to my church. She came alone, wore a mask, and was non-white. She seemed shy and was quite soft-spoken, her English was workable but not perfect. I began talking to her as if she was an ordinary adult newcomer. I found out she had recently moved from Syria, I learned her name, etc. Then I asked if she had a job here yet? And she told me she was in 8th grade, but should be in 9th, but they set her back a year to help with language learning etc... so, no, she didn't also have a job.

That was a fun moment for me. I thought I was making new friends. It turns out she was the same age as my daughter. No makeup required! (Yes she was shorter than the average woman, but lots of women are shorter than average!)

[HomeAgain]

22 minutes ago, regentrude said:

And what do you so when a child appears much more mature than their age completely without makeup? Makeup is no substitute for demeanor,  eloquence, and poise, all of which can make a young teen appear like an adult, without face paint.

This is an unrelated issue to a child trying to make themselves look older and more mature than they actually are.

 

[Ellie]

5 hours ago, alysee said:

My oldest is 12. She is quite mature and helpful since she is the first born. We have always said those big adolescent events would happen when our kids were in high school typically age 14.

For my second born I can see the age of 14 being good for her but for my first we have been thinking about softening the rules for her to maybe 12. 

Have you ever had different rules for different kids based on maturity and how they act? What do you think I should do in this situation? 

I had dc before cell phones were invented, so that wasn't an issue. 🙂

Make-up: 16. IDK how "mature" they are, they should not look like they're older than they are, which is what make-up tends to do. Back in the day when "make-up" pretty much meant lipstick, I might allow it sooner, but in today's world, "make-up" includes a heckalot more, and I wouldn't want to break it down into which make-up type or style is allowed at what age. Just say "no" to it all.

I don't think we had actual different rules for each child, but y'all, they are *old* now, and I might not be remembering clearly at all, because I am also old. 🙂

[Soror]

We did phones as needed.  Dd2 got one right after 12 as by then there had been several occasions she had needed to get ahold of me and couldn't. If they were only ever with me then it wouldn't be an issue.

Makeup is NBD. I don't outright have any rules for any of my girls on it.  Occasionally dd9 wears mascara. None of them wear much.  Dd15 usually only wears lip gloss and some mascara. Dressing up she'll do a light foundation, blush and light lipstick. She gets hit on all the time. Last time she had just finished a tennis game. She might have had a bit of mascara left on after the sweating. She had a crazy messy bun. She answered their come on to , "I'm 15" and they left 🙂 dd12 is starting to get it too. No coincidence to whether she has on her usual clear lip gloss and mascara. It has a lot more to do with the fact that's she's skinny and well endowed for her size and cute. Because she's already developed she looks older no matter if she wears makeup.

Disproportionately accusations of dressing and acting older are leveled against minorities and girls that mature early. And wat too often used to excuse bad behavior by older guys. It's a major hot button issue for me. 

Dating has natural limitations due to transportation, as a pp mentioned. Dd1 didn't go on dates until 14 but had group hangs before then. I'm very against the courtship model that dating is only for marriage. I think that teenagers wanting to date/go out is a very natural thing. Some are not interested at that age but a large number are and have been historically. Dating shouldn't be that serious. Go out, have fun, figure out if you want to know them more or not. Hard to do that unless you spend time with someone. And you don't have to get serious with any of them to enjoy dating as long as expectations are made clear on both end.

Dd1 was interested in boys by 12. My nearly 13 still thinks boys are gross and stupid. Ds really didn't have interest in girls until 16 or 17, didn't have a girlfriend until 17.5. 

[Tanaqui]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

And what do you so when a child appears much more mature than their age completely without makeup? Makeup is no substitute for demeanor,  eloquence, and poise, all of which can make a young teen appear like an adult, without face paint.

Or, more to the point, curves. Curves + height can make a 12 year old look 15, and vice versa.

But usually, anybody who talks to a 12 year old for more than 15 minutes, no matter how eloquent and poised they are, can tell that they are, in fact, not 15 or older - and that's assuming that they don't reply to advances with "Gross, I'm twelve!" in the first place. Those hypothetical high school graduates are not going to be interested in somebody's kid sister, no matter how much makeup she wears... or if they are, the makeup isn't the issue here.

[gardenmom5]

 

make-up.  depends upon what is included.  lip gloss at 12, maybe some mascara, etc.  more make-up at they got older.  I had a horrific eye infection that put me off ever wearing mascara (so why bother with the rest?) so my girls didn't really get into make-up much until they were adults.  

cell-phone.  when it's needed.  I'm paying for it . . . I think I got one for dudeling when he was around 11/12.  He's a hermit, but I wanted to be able to contact him.  He uses it as a kindle as well.  he's a hermit . .

babysitting - absolutely based upon maturity level!  I know kids who were great babysitters at 12, and others I wouldn't trust as adults.

dating: we didn't allow splitting off in actual pairs until 16 (going places as part of groups was fine), it helps to control the boy/girl crazy teen until they're a little more rational.   1ds is the one girls were really chasing.  He was totally oblivious and didn't care.  The only girl who he actually talked to in high school (never dated) was in his CCNA classes. iow: she could talk nerd.   (Because she was one.)

[gardenmom5]

1 minute ago, Tanaqui said:

Or, more to the point, curves. Curves + height can make a 12 year old look 15, and vice versa.

But usually, anybody who talks to a 12 year old for more than 15 minutes, no matter how eloquent and poised they are, can tell that they are, in fact, not 15 or older - and that's assuming that they don't reply to advances with "Gross, I'm twelve!" in the first place. Those hypothetical high school graduates are not going to be interested in somebody's kid sister, no matter how much makeup she wears... or if they are, the makeup isn't the issue here.

not necessarily.  I was frequently asked what my MAJOR was when I told people I was in school.  

I've also met 20something independent adults who acted like extra-dizzy high school students (and as an adult - couldn't understand what was wrong with their very juvenile behavior. or why I didn't want them around my tween daughters . . . . )

one of my older brother's (extra scummy) friends continually hit on me, even though I was underage.  I finally had to lock myself in my room whenever he was in our house for my own safety.  (not going into family dynamics, but I was on my own to protect myself.)  It was a wonderful day when my brother went into the military and was gone except to visit for 20+ years.

 

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

not necessarily.  I was frequently asked what my MAJOR was when I told people I was in school.  

Yep. My 15 y/o DD volunteered at the tutoring center for calc based engineering physics at our uni. She didn't disclose her age so the engineering students (mostly sophomores) wouldn't feel bad. They did try to ask her out.

Funny conversations like: "Wanna study together some time? I 'll give you my number. What's your major? What, you're in highschool? So, you're,  like, 17? OMG, 15???? Never mind then."

She never had a situation where the guy didn't immediately back off once they found out.

Edited September 23, 2022 by regentrude

[Tanaqui]

I'm really sorry your family didn't chase that guy away, gardenmom5 - but I think we can all agree that the problem was his behavior, especially considering that he knew your age, not your mode of dress.

[Eos]

16 for all, with a lot of discussion as to readiness when the age arrived. We're weird that way.  They were all pretty mature - my kids have all had outside jobs before they've had phones, dated, or babysat. I don't wear make-up so there never was any to play with, though they did paint their faces a fair amount.  I'm not saying ours is the best way, this is just what it was for us.

[Wheres Toto]

My oldest could pass for 18 when she was 12 years old, whether or not she was wearing makeup.    She was a dancer so wore makeup for shows starting when she was 4 or 5, so she mostly didn't see it as a big deal.  She occasionally wore light makeup to school starting in Junior High.    

Younger dd has no interest in makeup.  I very rarely wear makeup and with her being homeschooled, my preferences may have influenced her more. 

Cell phones are when needed.    It varied from 10 to 15, if I remember correctly.   We don't have a home phone so there was a cell phone that was the "house" phone that the kids could take with them if they went somewhere but wasn't technically their phone. 

Dating hasn't come up for the youngers.  For older dd, she was allowed to have a "boyfriend" younger but couldn't date until she was 16. 

Older dd started babysitting her younger siblings when she was about 15.  That had a lot to do with their ages, since I didn't want to leave her with very young infants at a young age.  By the time she was 15, they were 2 and 4 and much easier to manage.  

[kiwik]

I would go with age.  If you let your oldest do things now your younger will expect it too.  And if you have a non NT kid they might have to wait until they leave home.

[HazelAnne]

On 9/23/2022 at 10:15 AM, marbel said:

phone: for a while the kids shared a phone as they didn't need it often and mostly didn't overlap

This worked well for us too. Until our kids are driving, they have a shared phone. (We’d get one for a child sooner if they were away from home often). I know so many kids (and adults- too often myself included) who are seemingly always attached to their phones, and I didn’t want my kids to be this way. By sharing the phone, it generally stays in the kitchen and whoever is needing it takes it when they go out.

As to your main question- that is a hard one. My kids have been ready for things at different ages…and without me even vocalizing at what age things are “allowed” the younger kids have been keeping track on their own for when it’s their “turn”. (And the older ones point out how much their younger siblings get to do that they couldn’t).

In general, we have an age to reach for certain things, but tell the kids if they don’t show responsibility in that area, then the freedom to do that thing will be put on hold till they show more maturity. (We haven’t had to do that yet).