Is this sort of vague communication style... normal? Common?

[Kanin]

My school work situation continues to be strange. I had an earlier post about a coworker who was pushed out because she just couldn't take the pressure anymore. 

I've been having trouble all year with communication. I think I communicate with a fellow teacher, and then find out that said teacher is unsatisfied. This has happened quite a few times. I finally talked to a somewhat "senior" teacher to figure this out. After working here for almost a year, I have a theory about their communication style, so I asked her if it was possible that the teachers were throwing out hints and expecting me to act on the hints. She said, probably yes. An example of this would be someone saying: "We think manners are really important at this school." Apparently that's the hint, and I'm supposed to pick up on it and emphasize manners more with my students. When I don't, people get flustered that I'm not on Team Manners. I tried to explain to this teacher that people need to be REALLY BLUNT with me if they want me to do something differently. I said, "I need people to say, "Hey, Kanin, I think you're not making your students say please and thank you enough. It's upsetting me. I really want you to do that." The senior teacher looked surprised when I said it, and was like, "Ohhhh, so you want people to be that clear with you?"

Um, yes I do! I've never worked somewhere where direct communication is NOT the normal communication style. I do not get offended easily. I've never felt the need to pussyfoot around in conversations with other people. I'm not rude, but I am factual and I think I communicate pretty clearly with people. Working here is messing with my perception of myself and other people. I feel like I can't trust anything certain people say, because we just can't seem to communicate with each other. (I think they're bad at communicating, and they think I'm bad at it!)

Help! How do I fix this?!

[almondbutterandjelly]

That is exactly how my dd’s teachers spoke, with vague hints, in first and second grade. Drove me crazy. 
 

I homeschooled after that.

[Hilltopmom]

I dunno, but a ton of teachers in my building do that too! It drives me crazy- I ask a direct question about things (I’m relatively new to the district) and never get a direct answer. I usually leave a conversation more confused than before.

[bolt.]

In my experience, this is sometimes how people talk when they don't have any actual authority (to give you instructions, or even advice) but they would like to influence you anyways.

[Murphy101]

I can tell you I absolutely really dislike that. I get they claim they are being polite and nice but they aren’t if they are ticked when other people are not psychic about what they want.

If they said that to me, I’d probably just smile and and maybe say “we sure do!” and then not give it another thought.

Because I’m not psychic.

And if they were then unsatisfied and brought it up later, I’d probably tell them the same. I’d try to be diplomatic about it but seriously. People need to learn basic communication skills. 

[Murphy101]

19 minutes ago, bolt. said:

In my experience, this is sometimes how people talk when they don't have any actual authority (to give you instructions, or even advice) but they would like to influence you anyways.

Yep. That too. My husband says sometimes lead people do it when what they want is outside the job scope and they know it but want to make you feel like you aren’t doing a good enough job if you don’t do it anyways. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

The example you gave seems direct to me. It’s just a polite way of putting it. Are you possibly on the spectrum?  I would have to spell it out directly for my son on the spectrum. 

[TechWife]

I’d miss that, too. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Don’t play these passive aggressive games and expect me to join in. No one is a mind reader. Frankly, not having clear expectations and giving clear direction isn’t very professional. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by TechWife

[Rosie_0801]

I'd have thought I was being told off for being unmannerly.

[Kanin]

31 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I dunno, but a ton of teachers in my building do that too! It drives me crazy- I ask a direct question about things (I’m relatively new to the district) and never get a direct answer. I usually leave a conversation more confused than before.

Wow! So weird, right? I'm glad I'm not alone. But I feel your frustration! Does it come from teachers trying to put a positive spin on stuff, or something?

[TechWife]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The example you gave seems direct to me. It’s just a polite way of putting it. Are you possibly on the spectrum?  I would have to spell it out directly for my son on the spectrum. 

Not to me - and I’m not on the spectrum.  On behalf of my son, who is, please don’t attribute one instance of misunderstanding as autism. Sometimes people just don’t communicate in an understandable way. Attributing something as basic as this to autism is the equivalent of crying wolf - it makes it harder for people who do have autism to be taken seriously. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. 
 

[Kanin]

30 minutes ago, bolt. said:

In my experience, this is sometimes how people talk when they don't have any actual authority (to give you instructions, or even advice) but they would like to influence you anyways.

Mmmm. Good thought! I think that could definitely be the case here.

[Kanin]

11 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

And if they were then unsatisfied and brought it up later, I’d probably tell them the same. I’d try to be diplomatic about it but seriously. People need to learn basic communication skills. 

Ha. Yes. This absoutely! 

I've been doing the smile/agree/move on thing, but it's getting annoying to hear through the grapevine that people are dissatisfied with things I'm doing/not doing. And in some cases these are people who are not even involved with my work, at all.... so why do they care? 

[sassenach]

Having lived across the country and in areas with a lot of transplants, this is a very midwestern/southern way of communicating. I don't jive well with it and I definitely think it's part of why I feel so much more at home in California. I think the Northeast part of the country is also more direct. I grew up in a family of Bostonians transplanted to CA and I really prefer people to just say what they mean.

[Kanin]

9 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The example you gave seems direct to me. It’s just a polite way of putting it. Are you possibly on the spectrum?  I would have to spell it out directly for my son on the spectrum. 

Well, that was not one of the more vague examples. I fully get that they think I'm not enforcing manners enough. What they're annoyed about, in this example, is clear. However... exactly what they want me to do to this area is not clear to me. Should I insist that little Johnny never run or skip in the hall? Do they think some of my students are too loud? What exactly is bugging them? These are the details I need. 

[Kanin]

6 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I'd have thought I was being told off for being unmannerly.

Lol. Oh dear, I never even thought it was ME they think is unmannerly! Cue the overthinking. 😆 I desperately do want to be extremely unmannerly! I'm sure they think I'm too blunt. 

[TechWife]

11 hours ago, Kanin said:

Ha. Yes. This absoutely! 

I've been doing the smile/agree/move on thing, but it's getting annoying to hear through the grapevine that people are dissatisfied with things I'm doing/not doing. And in some cases these are people who are not even involved with my work, at all.... so why do they care? 

Can you be straightforward with the person who is telling you about this and say that you don’t appreciate gossip and that problems, or perceived problems, are most likely to be solved when there is clear communication between the parties concerned? It sounds to me like the biggest communication problem at this workplace is gossip. Don’t people have work to do?

Edited May 15, 2022 by TechWife

[EKS]

I think that's the typical female style a style common to females.  This and all of the some other typical common female things are what makes elementary school so difficult for a certain type of student.

Edited May 15, 2022 by EKS

[Kanin]

4 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Having lived across the country and in areas with a lot of transplants, this is a very midwestern/southern way of communicating. I don't jive well with it and I definitely think it's part of why I feel so much more at home in California. I think the Northeast part of the country is also more direct. I grew up in a family of Bostonians transplanted to CA and I really prefer people to just say what they mean.

We're all in the northeast so I'm not sure what's going on here. My DH says it's like a school in Twin Peaks. 

[Kanin]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

Can you be straightforward with the person who is telling you about this and say that you don’t appreciate gossip and that people ms, or perceived problems, are most likely to be solved when there is clear communication between the parties concerned? It sounds to me like the biggest communication problem at this workplace is gossip. Don’t people have work to do?

I have tried. With one person, I specifically asked them if they had ANY issues with anything I'm doing, and they said no. And then I hear that they're griping to someone else about me. I think you're right - workplace gossip is a huge issue here. Plus the indirect communication style. I really want to get to the bottom of things and make this better, rather than lasting another year and switching schools, but it's very wearing. 

[TechWife]

9 hours ago, EKS said:

I think that's the typical female style.  This and all of the other typical female things are what makes elementary school so difficult for a certain type of student.

I think that it’s possible that this is an old fashioned communication style for women - back before we really understood that we are equals and can participate equally at home, in the workplace and in society as a whole. I haven heard someone actually see this as a good communication style for grown women since the early eighties. It takes a generation or two for a norm to change - and this one has certainly changed - even in the SE, where I was born and have always lived. 

ETA-changed “brown” to “grown” - autocorrect problems.

Edited May 15, 2022 by TechWife

[TechWife]

3 minutes ago, Kanin said:

I have tried. With one person, I specifically asked them if they had ANY issues with anything I'm doing, and they said no. And then I hear that they're griping to someone else about me. I think you're right - workplace gossip is a huge issue here. Plus the indirect communication style. I really want to get to the bottom of things and make this better, rather than lasting another year and switching schools, but it's very wearing. 

I’m making a suggestion I might not follow through on myself if I were in your position. Is it at all possible for you to circle back to them and say “I heard that you told Jane xyz - is there a reason you didn’t come directly to me with your concern?”

[KungFuPanda]

16 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Not to me - and I’m not on the spectrum.  On behalf of my son, who is, please don’t attribute one instance of misunderstanding as autism. Sometimes people just don’t communicate in an understandable way. Attributing something as basic as this to autism is the equivalent of crying wolf - it makes it harder for people who do have autism to be taken seriously. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. 
 

In her defense, it is my friends on the spectrum who absolutely require direct, literal communication.  They also make a point of telling you up front that they need it.  Most people grasp the subtleties of general conversation.  It can be a kindness, especially in an elementary setting, to phrase things in such a way so that the person you are correcting doesn't feel directly attacked.   If that doesn't work, you do have to get a bit more targeted with your language, but that's not where most people start the conversation. 

Maybe the example above wasn't a particularly good one?  I would definitely take it as advice to reign my kids in overall.  If their manners were so rowdy that people actually commented on them, there might be work to do.  Usually, nobody is going to criticize a few isolated incidents.  If they say something then the kids have been a bit much for a while.  I'd rather hear "manners are important" than "Your classroom management skills are abysmal and your kids are a menace in the hallway. Why can't you deal with this without someone having to point it out to you?"  

It is entirely possible that this clique of teachers are just an odd group of mean girls who never grew up and are pushing people out with their rudeness.  One teacher did already leave, so that's not a good sign.  As much as I want to jump to the defense of @Kanin because she's OUR friend, you never really know.  There are a lot of us on this board.  Occasionally one of us is going to be the actual problem.  These are elementary teachers.  They CAN absolutely spell things out but they're probably not used to having to be THAT direct to get the point across with colleagues.  Most adults can handle some nuance in conversation.  

It's a weird and interesting situation though and I'm curious to see what they pull next.  It's not monolith strange, but I am intrigued.

[Shoeless]

I would take it as a passive aggressive jab at me. Like, the person that said it doesn't necessarily want me to change, but they *do* want me to know that I don't measure up in their eyes. 

 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, sassenach said:

Having lived across the country and in areas with a lot of transplants, this is a very midwestern/southern way of communicating. I don't jive well with it and I definitely think it's part of why I feel so much more at home in California. I think the Northeast part of the country is also more direct. I grew up in a family of Bostonians transplanted to CA and I really prefer people to just say what they mean.

Yes!

57 minutes ago, Kanin said:

We're all in the northeast so I'm not sure what's going on here. My DH says it's like a school in Twin Peaks. 

It does sound odd. I agree that they seem to be looking for something specific without saying so.

24 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I'd rather hear "manners are important" than "Your classroom management skills are abysmal and your kids are a menace in the hallway. Why can't you deal with this without someone having to point it out to you?"  

There is a very big range of possibilities in between. If the kids are a menace in the hallway, there are ways to be specific--it could be too much noise, roughhousing, hogging the path, all of the above. The teacher could've chosen to say something like, "We've trained the kids to do x in the hallway, and we find that anything less than a totally united front about it leads to problem y--do you mind making sure your students do x?" 

Manners is not always synonymous with good behavior either. Some people use manners to cover up bad behavior. 

[itsheresomewhere]

1 hour ago, Kanin said:

We're all in the northeast so I'm not sure what's going on here. My DH says it's like a school in Twin Peaks. 

I am in the northeast.  Some of my clients have started doing this style of unique communication. Just say what you actually want.  I am not reading minds today, people. Then they get upset we do what they tell us but that is not what they wanted…..  This style of communication has to become extinct soon. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by itsheresomewhere

[regentrude]

Sounds like these people may all be women? Would drive me crazy. That's one more reason why I like working in a male dominated field. The guys say what they mean. Even in the Midwest.

I am totally with you. Ain't nobody got time for mind reading... just tell me straight what it is you want.

Edited May 15, 2022 by regentrude

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I'd have thought I was being told off for being unmannerly.

Yeah, me too. 

I think that's a bizarre way to communicate that someone would like you to do X. 

If they want you to do X, they should ask you to do X. 

(I am in many primary classrooms per day - almost every single teacher wants to moan, groan and complain about other teachers. I think they forget I hear from all of them. It's so unprofessional, but appears to be very normal. So yeah, I can see that you might find yourself in a situation where someone's moaning about you, because that seems to be part of teaching culture.)

 

 

[East Coast Sue]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I'd have thought I was being told off for being unmannerly.

That’s how I would take the comment too. 

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The example you gave seems direct to me. It’s just a polite way of putting it. Are you possibly on the spectrum?  I would have to spell it out directly for my son on the spectrum. 

I don’t know how anyone could get from “we value manners” to “you are not teaching specific politeness skills in your class” unless there was a lot more context. Like Rosie, my first thought is that if it was a criticism, that it would have been of me, not my students.

I am not on the spectrum or even close.

Not everyone speaks passive aggressive. But I do find many people mistakenly think being passive aggressive like this is somehow nicer. And that everyone understands exactly what they’re thinking. As evidenced in this thread, they’re wrong.

[KungFuPanda]

It could be that some people lean more towards a concrete style of thinking/communicating and some are more abstract thinkers/communicators.  Realistically, we're all doing both but if @Kanin is at one end of the scale and her colleagues are at the other I can see the disconnect.  Or, she's just landed in a toxic workplace.  It happens.

I doubt is a sex thing.  I've worked in more than one male dominated field in my time.  The men are as dramatic as any woman could ever be.  They're just not owning up to it.  Maybe this is just a particularly dramatic work week talking.  I'm the only woman there and the only person who didn't have big feelings this week.  

[fraidycat]

Unfortunately, it is common. It is also annoying. Like you, I am blunt and prefer direct communication.

I am not on any spectrum, but "we think manners are important" would mean nothing to me beyond "we" think manners are important. 🤷🏻‍♀️
 

If you want me to enforce an unwritten rule, tell me the rule and how you want it enforced. 
 

I have learned to be even more direct over the years by questioning everything. So for example, if the above manners statement was made to me, I'd respond with a question like "Is there something you'd like me to do with this information, or are you just making a statement about your opinion on manners?" I put the onus back on the communicator to actually communicate, instead of spewing vague word salad and expecting me to read between the lines.

[catz]

To me in this setting it seems unprofessional as described   Like if teacher next door said, “hey could you try and get your kids to quiet down as you walk by our classroom.   It ends up being a distraction before lunch”. Or “hey teacher grade 2, in the fall the expectation is X, would you mind starting to work on that with your kids?”  Those seem like positive ways a teacher might give another teacher feedback.  

Like the example given seems like micromanaging or nit picking to me unless that affects another teacher directly?   Or if there is a school focus on some particular skill or behavior, it should be included with a workshop in the fall and regularly reinforced by admin through the year.  
 

and I’m a female in the Midwest and not on the spectrum.  Lol.  

Edited May 15, 2022 by catz

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

I don’t know how anyone could get from “we value manners” to “you are not teaching specific politeness skills in your class” unless there was a lot more context. Like Rosie, my first thought is that if it was a criticism, that it would have been of me, not my students.

I am not on the spectrum or even close.

Not everyone speaks passive aggressive. But I do find many people mistakenly think being passive aggressive like this is somehow nicer. And that everyone understands exactly what they’re thinking. As evidenced in this thread, they’re wrong.

THIS.

My beloved mother-in-law, one of the kindest and funnest people in my life, really believed that hinting around was nicer. So she'd hint and hint and hint and conversations would go on and on and on until the person finally figured out what she wanted. Often those around her would interpret her hints for others. ("Mar wants you to...")

Or it could be mean passive-aggressiveness, as @MissLemon suggests.

[Ausmumof3]

7 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I'd have thought I was being told off for being unmannerly.

Yes that’s what I thought too! I’d go away wondering when I’d been inadvertently rude!

ETA now I’ve read the whole thread it looks like 3/3 Aussies had the same response so maybe that’s a country specific thing.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Hyacinth]

At a recent meeting, my boss told the 4 of us there that she was going to bring up in a larger meeting the issue of people wearing sweatshirts on Teams calls and how it’s not professional. “I’m not directing this at anyone here, I just wanted you to know…”

Umm…if it’s not directed at anyone here, why are you telling us? If someone is doing something unprofessional, wouldn’t it be more effective to address that person? Are you talking about that one day I wore that purple athletic jacket because I was cold? Was that a problem? Are we REALLY concerned with comfortable wardrobe choices on a freaking department Teams call? 

I spent a lot of mental energy trying to figure out if there was subtext I was supposed to be inferring about that little comment.

I’m firmly on Team Say What You Mean and Mean What You Say. Especially for those in leadership. 

 

[MEmama]

Hmmm, Mainers aren’t exactly known for being anything but blunt! 

Passive aggressive “communication” drives me crazy, I’m sorry you’re being forced to deal with this, @Kanin. I agree with others, maybe there’s a kind but also clear way to turn their comments back on them by asking them to clarify. State your need for specifics—they sound like they are being intentionally vague, whether in an effort to come off “softer” (ugh, woman thing) or simply because they aren’t good at communicating their actual needs. Are they younger by chance? 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Hyacinth said:

At a recent meeting, my boss told the 4 of us there that she was going to bring up in a larger meeting the issue of people wearing sweatshirts on Teams calls and how it’s not professional. “I’m not directing this at anyone here, I just wanted you to know…”

Umm…if it’s not directed at anyone here, why are you telling us? If someone is doing something unprofessional, wouldn’t it be more effective to address that person? Are you talking about that one day I wore that purple athletic jacket because I was cold? Was that a problem? Are we REALLY concerned with comfortable wardrobe choices on a freaking department Teams call? 

I spent a lot of mental energy trying to figure out if there was subtext I was supposed to be inferring about that little comment.

I’m firmly on Team Say What You Mean and Mean What You Say. Especially for those in leadership. 

 

So that when she lectures the whole group you know that none of you four are the culprits who she feels are being routinely unprofessional. This one seems very clear to me. 
 

This is surreal. It’s like the difference between a BBC show and an American counterpart. I think the American shows will deliver a line, then explain the line in the very next line. It’s redundant, but maybe it’s not. Maybe they’re just trying to be clear. Meanwhile, a BBC show will just roll along without pausing for clarification and it feels like a more natural conversation.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall at this school and hear the conversations. Misunderstanding one person could go either way. This is going to happen now and again to everyone. It’s hard to tell if it’s a poor communicator or a poor receiver. Routinely misunderstanding an entire group of people makes it a more interesting situation. Are they Stepford teachers? What is up at that school? It might not be about regional conversation differences at all. They might be wackadoos. I don’t think the OP misunderstands entire groups of people in other settings. This could be a one-off situation. 

[Guest]

I’m with you, Kanin. I cannot stand hint-dropping. I *usually* miss this. I could be on the spectrum. 
 

I am big on say what you mean, mean what you say. 

[Carrie12345]

I feel like I am generally pretty good at reading between lines or catching on to someone’s “vibe”, but I’ve definitely noticed more and more… vagueness, I guess. Not quite the same as passive-aggressive, but something similar.

Is there a generational difference in this case? Because I find it even more difficult with people younger than me (45, near the end of GenX.) My kids have taught me some of the added differences, and I think most of them are ridiculous, but it’s also a world I have to navigate.  I assume that there are going to be people younger than me who don’t understand my communication for no sensible reason, so I have to keep that in mind.

[madteaparty]

To be frank (ha!) I think in your example the first request “we value manners” is in fact vague especially if somewhat outside the scope of the subjects you teach. If someone said that to me I would think they were complaining about my manners!

on the other hand, your amended request seems over the top specific and I think would come across as rude, which is why someone would choose not to be that direct. Especially if their authority to comment on what you teach is limited.  

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

So that when she lectures the whole group you know that none of you four are the culprits who she feels are being routinely unprofessional. This one seems very clear to me. 

Interesting. I agree with Hyacinth. If I’m not the person, you don’t need to tell me. If I AM the person/borderline one of the people, just tell me. I mean, preferably not in a meeting, but still. If it’s, say, ten people out of thirty, then I agree to tell the group at the meeting and the ten sweatshirt-wearers can probably figure out you mean them. If I were the team leader, I would probably say something like, “I have an issue I want to bring up. Recently, some Team members have been wearing sweatshirts on Team calls. This doesn’t match the professional image we wish to convey. From now on, everyone should be wearing a button-down shirt, a company polo or a nice blouse on calls only.” 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited May 15, 2022 by Quill

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

So that when she lectures the whole group you know that none of you four are the culprits who she feels are being routinely unprofessional. This one seems very clear to me. 

That also seems contextually clear to me. Unless some of you were wearing sweatshirts. In which case, I think it might be essentially a mis-speak. "This isn't about anyone here" sounds nicer, and more common maybe? I think what might be meant is something more like, "no one is in trouble and I'm not upset with anyone, but I'm about to give a stern warning about the dress expectations going forward." But it also could be weirdly passive aggressive and two-faced if some people were in the less formal clothes. Because again, that's a thing people do. 

[Guest]

Oh! And here’s a funny thing! One time, a bunch of years ago, a homeschool mom at co-op called a meeting where she prattled on endlessly about Modest Dress. Literally I could not imagine where she was seeing all these slutty clothes-wearers. But then, probably more than a year later, it occurred to me that *I* was likely one of the targeted moms. This was because I later learned that her standards were way more strict than mine. If a bra strap peaked out, it was immodest; if pants hugged form, it was immodest. If a top would blouse out a bit when you bend so someone could see a glimpse of bra or, god forbid, big boobs (which I don’t have, so that part was not about me!), it was immodest. 

[freesia]

I was an elementary teacher for 10 years. One of the things I learned early was how to be less direct with parents. Many parents do not appreciate directness with regard to their children.  I know some of you will disagree, and you are right that some do want it. But I started out direct and 90% get very defensive and angry. You learn fast to only be direct about major issues, although even those conversations go better with some padding. Actually, I’ve noticed the same dynamic in conversations here-many people feel jumped on when others are completely straight with them. 
 

So, I think the indirect approach as culture is a reflection of the communication style they’ve all had to learn as elementary teachers. But, like others have said, it could just be a toxic place. The example of the manners didn’t seem passive aggressive to me—bc I can’t see the aggression involved. I agree it is better to be direct, though. It is just the chances of keeping things low drama are higher with the indirect approach. 

[TechWife]

10 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

In her defense, it is my friends on the spectrum who absolutely require direct, literal communication.  They also make a point of telling you up front that they need it.  Most people grasp the subtleties of general conversation.  It can be a kindness, especially in an elementary setting, to phrase things in such a way so that the person you are correcting doesn't feel directly attacked.   If that doesn't work, you do have to get a bit more targeted with your language, but that's not where most people start the conversation. 

…

I’m aware.  Like I said, my son has autism.  I don’t need a lecture about communication and autism. Not all people with autism are able to ask for direct communication. This is another example of how generalizations can be detrimental to people who have autism. Expecting people who have a communication disorder to be able to explain their disorder does those who can’t explain a disservice. 

FWIW, I think people feel attacked by corrections because they weren’t exposed to good communication at an early age.  If people would model good communication skills to all ages, then being wrong would be seen as the normal, expected growth process for people of all ages and being corrected would not be seen as an attack. 

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Interesting. I agree with Hyacinth. If I’m not the person, you don’t need to tell me. If I AM the person/borderline one of the people, just tell me. I mean, preferably not in a meeting, but still. If it’s, say, ten people out of thirty, then I agree to tell the group at the meeting and the ten sweatshirt-wearers can probably figure out you mean them. If I were the team leader, I would probably say something like, “I have an issue I want to bring up. Recently, some Team members have been wearing sweatshirts on Team calls. This doesn’t match the professional image we wish to convey. From now on, everyone should be wearing a button-down shirt, a company polo or a nice blouse on calls only.” 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree. Telling the group and not talking directly to the people involved is either conflict avoidance. It’s not a good behavior pattern for anyone, much less a manager. 

[Guest]

As I think about this, I realize that whenever I am not happy with something that’s happening and I wish to correct it, I first say something that prepares the person that I am about to say something they may not love hearing. I usually begin with something like, “There is an issue I want to address…,” or similar bracing words. What words I use depends on whom I’m addressing and whether I am in authority over them or not, but there will usually be something said that alerts the hearer that something is about to be addressed. 

[Ellie]

11 hours ago, TechWife said:

I think that it’s possible that this is an old fashioned communication style for women - back before we really understood that we are equals and can participate equally at home, in the workplace and in society as a whole. I haven heard someone actually see this as a good communication style for grown women since the early eighties. It takes a generation or two for a norm to change - and this one has certainly changed - even in the SE, where I was born and have always lived. 

ETA-changed “brown” to “grown” - autocorrect problems.

I have *never* heard anyone suggest that this is a "good communication style" for anyone of any gender. o_0

[shawthorne44]

11 hours ago, TechWife said:

I think that it’s possible that this is an old fashioned communication style for women - back before we really understood that we are equals and can participate equally at home, in the workplace and in society as a whole. I haven heard someone actually see this as a good communication style for grown women since the early eighties. It takes a generation or two for a norm to change - and this one has certainly changed - even in the SE, where I was born and have always lived. 

ETA-changed “brown” to “grown” - autocorrect problems.

 

I agree with this.   Combine that with the suggestion that it is coming from people without the authority.   

I think it is a shitty way of doing things.  My mother does something similar and she thinks she is being polite.   She'll say something like, "Do you want to load the dishwasher?"   As a late-teen I finally said, "No, I don't"   She got upset, but Dad backed me up maybe because she'd been particularly bad about it then.   

I also feel that something is lost with the indirect method of requesting an action.  Say someone requests something directly that is outside your required stuff, and you do it, then you get a sort of brownie points for doing it.  But with the indirect method they think in their head "Well, I never told anyone to do anything so I don't owe any favors."