CDC mask announcement (a new thread)

[regentrude]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think people in high vaccination areas are the people who are going to keep masking 😛 .

and in the low vaccination areas, it's the vaccinated folks who are still masking out of consideration and to reduce the minimal residual risk. The people who hated the short lived mask mandate and dismiss the vaccine are the ones who are unmasked.

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

you would be fine - but there will be others who think that you are inconsiderate because they can't know that you are vaccinated. You just have to accept that some will think that you are probably one of the anti-mask anti-vaxxers that are abundant in many places. 

There are lots of vaxed t shirts out there now. If someone was particularly self conscious about this, wearing a shirt could be one way to put people at ease. 
 

Im still not seeing anyone unmasking around my area. 

[Kassia]

31 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I have to admit that if I saw you unmasked in a store, I would avoid you like the plague, but I would never say anything rude to you. I am just treating anyone who is unmasked as being potentially unvaccinated, and because my family has to be extra-cautious, I am trying to steer clear of anyone without a mask on. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, regentrude said:

you would be fine - but there will be others who think that you are inconsiderate because they can't know that you are vaccinated. You just have to accept that some will think that you are probably one of the anti-mask anti-vaxxers that are abundant in many places. 

This is what I'm concerned with.  I'm torn between not wearing a mask because I really don't feel it's needed and I don't like it and wearing one just to make others more comfortable and not feeling judged.  My area is kind of mixed as far as masks.  Actually, I got the feeling that most were anti-mask, but DH was at the store a few days ago and said more than 50% of people wore masks, which really surprised me.  He did even though he dislikes them more than I do (my reason is just comfort, he's not uncomfortable but doesn't like them for other reasons).  

 

ETA - I hate that masks and the vaccines are dividing our country even though I do understand it.  

Edited May 22, 2021 by Kassia

[Pawz4me]

6 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

This is what I'm concerned with.  I'm torn between not wearing a mask because I really don't feel it's needed and I don't like it and wearing one just to make others more comfortable and not feeling judged.  My area is kind of mixed as far as masks.  Actually, I got the feeling that most were anti-mask, but DH was at the store a few days ago and said more than 50% of people wore masks, which really surprised me.  He did even though he dislikes them more than I do (my reason is just comfort, he's not uncomfortable but doesn't like them for other reasons).  

I think a lot of people are struggling with it, and it's going to take a few weeks to sort out. The first few days after our mandate was lifted almost everyone was still masking. Yesterday I was out and there were definitely fewer people masking, but still the majority were. Everyone seems to be handling things quite well, though. Everyone I noticed was going about their business, not giving anyone the stink eye whether they were masked or not. I've been very pro-mask all along, but at this point it's not bothering me at all to see people unmasked. We went into Lowe's yesterday. I put my mask on. DH had one in his pocket but forgot to put it on. I didn't say anything because I assumed he'd decided not to put it on (we're all fully vaccinated). But he said later he just forgot all about it.

[Ditto]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I have to admit that if I saw you unmasked in a store, I would avoid you like the plague, but I would never say anything rude to you. I am just treating anyone who is unmasked as being potentially unvaccinated, and because my family has to be extra-cautious, I am trying to steer clear of anyone without a mask on. 

This is how I feel as well.    I am very glad that the vast majority of people here are still masking.  The few we saw unmasked made me extremely uncomfortable we we actively moved as far away from them as possible.  My family is fully vaccinated but will continue to double mask everywhere we go.  

[rebcoola]

Went to a funeral today.  I would say maybe 40% masked.   They also didn't require any kind of distancing.  So really everyone should have been masked since it was indoor.  We are mandated to follow CDC guidelines but people seem to think the mandate has been lifted not changed.

[Clarita]

23 hours ago, Terabith said:

If the pandemic had hit when they were 2, I'm not sure I would have been able to keep a mask on them.

My little girl was a few months shy of 2 when the mask mandates started. Actually it wasn't too hard to keep mask on the little ones. After months of not being able to go anywhere (we live in CA) I just had to say "We'll have to go home if your mask comes off." The mask falls off and I have to fix it sometimes because she is not so coordinated, but in terms of fighting me on it, it only took one time of heading back to the car for her to comply. I had zero issues getting my neuro-typical 3 year old to comply. 

I think it was actually easier for younger kids, because they don't remember a time when they didn't. My now 4.5 year old had a much harder time with the lockdown stuff (definitely had some depression last year) than my now almost 3 year old. 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Ditto said:

This is how I feel as well.    I am very glad that the vast majority of people here are still masking.  The few we saw unmasked made me extremely uncomfortable we we actively moved as far away from them as possible.  My family is fully vaccinated but will continue to double mask everywhere we go.  

It’s very sad that many of us are viewing unmasked people with suspicion, but because there are so many unvaccinated people who are now refusing to mask, it's hard to give people the benefit of the doubt. 😞 

[TexasProud]

I am about to conclude that this board is chicken little. So many dire predictions and i have spend the last year in fear because people didn't mask. It really has not been a big deal. It just hasn't.  The county at large has approximately 30 percent of us vaccinated.  It feels more like 60 percent of my friend group is vaccinated.  Church-wide, honestly, I'm not sure because I don't ask. But almost everyone I've talked to about it has vaccinated. Anyway, all that to say. Masks have completely gone away.  My husband and I were the last hold outs, and we have dropped it. I refuse to live in fear anymore. I am just done worrying about everyone dying. 

[Terabith]

2 hours ago, Clarita said:

My little girl was a few months shy of 2 when the mask mandates started. Actually it wasn't too hard to keep mask on the little ones. After months of not being able to go anywhere (we live in CA) I just had to say "We'll have to go home if your mask comes off." The mask falls off and I have to fix it sometimes because she is not so coordinated, but in terms of fighting me on it, it only took one time of heading back to the car for her to comply. I had zero issues getting my neuro-typical 3 year old to comply. 

I think it was actually easier for younger kids, because they don't remember a time when they didn't. My now 4.5 year old had a much harder time with the lockdown stuff (definitely had some depression last year) than my now almost 3 year old. 

Oh yeah, in general, I think most young kids do fine with masks.  My younger kid would have done fine with it, although she probably would have chewed on it.  I'm saying that this particular kid, with some major hard core sensory issues that had her at 17 electing to pretty much never leave the house rather than wear masks would have really struggled at 2, when their sensory issues were more severe and also when they didn't have the cognitive ability to overcome things they find distressing for a greater cause, let alone for a cause they aren't especially interested in (doctor's visits, emergency grocery runs, etc).  

[Spy Car]

We have lost more than 589,000 Americans (to say nothing of the 3.5 million or so lost around the world).

For perspective, we've had more domestic deaths from Covid than from combat deaths in WWII, The Civil War, and WWI combined (and these were our most deadly wars). We will likely surpass the totals adding in Vietnam.

Nothing remotely "chicken little" about it, and the pandemic isn't over.

Bill

Edited May 23, 2021 by Spy Car

[TexasProud]

7 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

We have lost more than 589,000 Americans (to say nothing of the 3.5 million or so lost around the world).

For perspective, we've had more domestic deaths from Covid than from combat deaths in WWII, The Civil War, and WWI combined (and these were our most deadly wars). We will likely surpass the totals adding in Vietnam.

Nothing remotely "chicken little" about it, and the pandemic isn't over.

Bill

But in my community nothing has really happened.  Whether cautious or not has not made a difference. The only difference seems to be that I missed out.

[Spy Car]

10 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

But in my community nothing has really happened.  Whether cautious or not has not made a difference. The only difference seems to be that I missed out.

Be happy that you missed out.

Too many people ended up on ventilators, dead, or burying loved ones.

Bill

 

[regentrude]

10 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

But in my community nothing has really happened.  Whether cautious or not has not made a difference. The only difference seems to be that I missed out.

I do not understand this statement. In your community, nobody was ill with Covid, or died from it? And the people who took precautions fell ill at the same rate as the ones who did not?

I just talked to a friend who had Covid in October and is still not able to breathe normally. How can your community be the one bubble that has been spared?

 

[regentrude]

20 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

We have lost more than 589,000 Americans (to say nothing of the 3.5 million or so lost around the world).

For perspective, we've had more domestic deaths from Covid than from combat deaths in WWII, The Civil War, and WWI combined (and these were our most deadly wars). We will likely surpass the totals adding in Vietnam.

Nothing remotely "chicken little" about it, and the pandemic isn't over.

The world. Exactly. Do people think the Italians made it up that they had to store their dead in refrigerated trucks because the morgue was running out of space? or that India is running out of wood to burn the corpses? 
I very happily miss out on that.

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

The world. Exactly. Do people think the Italians made it up that they had to store their dead in refrigerated trucks because the morgue was running out of space? or that India is running out of wood to burn the corpses? 
I very happily miss out on that.

This has been a heartbreaking world-wide catastrophe. And it's not over yet.

We are very privileged to have access to vaccines (if we are not under 12) in this country. Meanwhile, we have citizens refusing to mask and refusing to get vaccinated, while many desperate  Indians are dumping their deceased loved ones into the Ganges.

Jesus wept.

Bill

[Clarita]

46 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm saying that this particular kid, with some major hard core sensory issues

Those are the parents and people I really feel for. Those with sensory issue beyond the usual discomfort (whether young or old). 

[happi duck]

Is the Hive "living in fear"?  Not that I've seen. 

I'm not living in fear.  That said, I am *extremely* cautious and I have found ways to live well within covid precautions.

 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

I am about to conclude that this board is chicken little. So many dire predictions and i have spend the last year in fear because people didn't mask. It really has not been a big deal. It just hasn't.  The county at large has approximately 30 percent of us vaccinated.  It feels more like 60 percent of my friend group is vaccinated.  Church-wide, honestly, I'm not sure because I don't ask. But almost everyone I've talked to about it has vaccinated. Anyway, all that to say. Masks have completely gone away.  My husband and I were the last hold outs, and we have dropped it. I refuse to live in fear anymore. I am just done worrying about everyone dying. 

 

50 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

But in my community nothing has really happened.  Whether cautious or not has not made a difference. The only difference seems to be that I missed out.

 

Are we supposed to feel sorry for you?

For once, instead of whining and feeling sorry for yourself, how about being THANKFUL that Covid hasn’t been “a big deal” for you?

I am pretty disgusted with your lack of concern or sympathy for all of the people who have suffered and died from Covid — and for those who will continue to suffer and those who will die. All you can think about is yourself and how you haven’t been able to do exactly what you wanted to do. 

So go ahead and do what you want to do. But don’t blame anyone else for the decisions you have made over the past year or so. You are an adult. If you thought we were wrong, you could have done something different. 

How nice for you that you that you can be “done worrying about people dying.”  😡

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Catwoman
I make typos when I’m annoyed!

[rebcoola]

If you asked most people around here they would say nothing really happened to anyone.   They know a few people got sick like the flu and got better.  We were one of the hardest hit places in the country last summer.  When they say that they are showing their privilege.  The people sick and dying were not the kinds of people they know.  They were migrant workers, chicken factory workers etc the kind that don't speak English.  The ones who are always forgotten about.

[KSera]

I went to the store today and the new sign out front said that masks were “encouraged” for unvaccinated individuals. Before this, they have been required everywhere. This is not what the CDC guidance was supposed to mean.

[Wheres Toto]

10 hours ago, regentrude said:

The world. Exactly. Do people think the Italians made it up that they had to store their dead in refrigerated trucks because the morgue was running out of space? or that India is running out of wood to burn the corpses? 
I very happily miss out on that.

Exactly.  

We had refrigerated trucks for bodies in New York City, so not even some abstract place "over there".     The majority of people I know have friends or family members that died or were very sick.  It's not at all an abstract thing around here.

Anyone who still feels like covid was no big deal is very lucky and/or very privileged.  

[TexasProud]

10 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Be happy that you missed out.

Too many people ended up on ventilators, dead, or burying loved ones.

Bill

 

 

10 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

 

Are we supposed to feel sorry for you?

For once, instead of whining and feeling sorry for yourself, how about being THANKFUL that Covid hasn’t been “a big deal” for you?

I am pretty disgusted with your lack of concern or sympathy for all of the people who have suffered and died from Covid — and for those who will continue to suffer and those who will die. All you can think about is yourself and how you haven’t been able to do exactly what you wanted to do. 

So go ahead and do what you want to do. But don’t blame anyone else for the decisions you have made over the past year or so. You are an adult. If you thought we were wrong, you could have done something different. 

How nice for you that you that you can be “done worrying about people dying.”  😡

 

 

 

10 hours ago, happi duck said:

Is the Hive "living in fear"?  Not that I've seen. 

I'm not living in fear.  That said, I am *extremely* cautious and I have found ways to live well within covid precautions.

 

I have spent the last 15 months crying my eyes out at night worrying about Honduras, India, Kenya.  I worried about my friend who is battling cancer, taking chemo, yet teaching unvaccinated kids because that is her calling. Working with youth and pouring into their lives when the activities didn't stop.  She is fine.  But I spent so many days and nights over the last 15 months, crying, with this heavy feeling in my chest that the world is ending.  Now all of you are saying that these variants will overwhelm us.  The United States is doomed... 

I just can't anymore. When do I get to smile? I can cry all I want for India ( and believe me, I have) but it doesn't help them.  It doesn't cause any less people to die.  I masked.  I am continuing to mask in certain areas ( like a crowded museum, or doctor's offices, etc.) despite the fact that I am not sure I have to.  I am vaccinated.  In May of 2022, I will get a booster. It is all I can do.  And listening to how horrible everything is on here doesn't help me make anyone's lives better.  At some point, I have to just live life.  Carefully, as I have always done.  If the sky falls, it falls. I have NO power at all as to whether it does or not or whether my friends will die or whether another million people will die in India.  I just have no tears to shed anymore.  

[HeartString]

19 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

 

 

I have spent the last 15 months crying my eyes out at night worrying about Honduras, India, Kenya.  I worried about my friend who is battling cancer, taking chemo, yet teaching unvaccinated kids because that is her calling. Working with youth and pouring into their lives when the activities didn't stop.  She is fine.  But I spent so many days and nights over the last 15 months, crying, with this heavy feeling in my chest that the world is ending.  Now all of you are saying that these variants will overwhelm us.  The United States is doomed... 

I just can't anymore. When do I get to smile? I can cry all I want for India ( and believe me, I have) but it doesn't help them.  It doesn't cause any less people to die.  I masked.  I am continuing to mask in certain areas ( like a crowded museum, or doctor's offices, etc.) despite the fact that I am not sure I have to.  I am vaccinated.  In May of 2022, I will get a booster. It is all I can do.  And listening to how horrible everything is on here doesn't help me make anyone's lives better.  At some point, I have to just live life.  Carefully, as I have always done.  If the sky falls, it falls. I have NO power at all as to whether it does or not or whether my friends will die or whether another million people will die in India.  I just have no tears to shed anymore.  

 Very gently…it sounds like you need an internet break.  You sound unwell.  Maybe you’re too empathic or too anxious by nature.  But you seem extraordinarily sensitive and maybe you need a smaller world to worry about.  Maybe unsubscribe to National and international news and engage more at a local level where it’s not so overwhelming. 
I have to watch my husband with this sort of stuff. I love politics and following it, but he gets so worked up that it worsens his anxiety.  Which means we walk a tight rope between keeping him informed as a citizen without it over taking him.  For him I recommend the NPR Up First or The Daily podcast for news and that’s supposed to be it. Severely limiting it really improves his quality of life and this strategy has been green lit by his therapist. 
 

All of the COVID stuff seems to overwhelm you.  There’s no need to follow every twist and turn if it’s not helpful for you.  Just follow the CDC guidelines and be cautious.  Variants will or won’t come but stressing your self out to this extent won’t prevent anything. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by HeartString

[Spryte]

Our vaccinated next door neighbors were here recently.  They lost two family members to Covid.  Their grief and pain is fresh in my mind as it was a front and center topic, with tears.  

I honestly can’t think of any family that I know well IRL not affected by Covid.  I’m sure there are plenty but our closest friends have all been affected.

That said, though, TexasProud, you often seem stressed out by the boards here, and I think that might be why you come and go so often.  If this is too much for you, maybe a break would help.

[SKL]

15 hours ago, Catwoman said:

It’s very sad that many of us are viewing unmasked people with suspicion, but because there are so many unvaccinated people who are now refusing to mask, it's hard to give people the benefit of the doubt. 😞 

Yes, it's sad, especially since most of the posters who have mentioned how it is in their area since the mask advice changed have said they are still seeing most people masked.

I was kinda hoping people would lighten up on the "most people are evil, dishonest, and don't care if my grandma dies."

To be honest, I'm kinda disgusted with the attitude that people who are following health guidelines and highly unlikely to be infectious are being viewed with suspicion, disdain, etc.

Personally I don't care what anyone else in a store thinks of me.  I will do what I think is right.  I hope others can stop worrying about irrational reactions to rational behavior.

[Ditto]

13 hours ago, Spy Car said:

And it's not over yet

This is exactly right and something that I fear many people are not fully paying attention to.  It is why we (in my opinion) need to keep masking for at least a few more months.  Masks are necessary.   Being vaccinated is necessary.  These are 2 of the most powerful weapons we have to fight this pandemic.

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

 

 

I have spent the last 15 months crying my eyes out at night worrying about Honduras, India, Kenya.  I worried about my friend who is battling cancer, taking chemo, yet teaching unvaccinated kids because that is her calling. Working with youth and pouring into their lives when the activities didn't stop.  She is fine.  But I spent so many days and nights over the last 15 months, crying, with this heavy feeling in my chest that the world is ending.  Now all of you are saying that these variants will overwhelm us.  The United States is doomed... 

I just can't anymore. When do I get to smile? I can cry all I want for India ( and believe me, I have) but it doesn't help them.  It doesn't cause any less people to die.  I masked.  I am continuing to mask in certain areas ( like a crowded museum, or doctor's offices, etc.) despite the fact that I am not sure I have to.  I am vaccinated.  In May of 2022, I will get a booster. It is all I can do.  And listening to how horrible everything is on here doesn't help me make anyone's lives better.  At some point, I have to just live life.  Carefully, as I have always done.  If the sky falls, it falls. I have NO power at all as to whether it does or not or whether my friends will die or whether another million people will die in India.  I just have no tears to shed anymore.  

Your husband has told you numerous times that this board is not healthy for you.  Your therapist has told you that this board is not healthy for you.  We have told you numerous times that this board is not healthy for you (not because we're mean but because you have one breakdown over another).  All you do is to disappear and then change your name (and how many children you have).  It's not healthy for us to feed your need for attention and people to feel sorry for your excessive emotions. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

14 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yes, it's sad, especially since most of the posters who have mentioned how it is in their area since the mask advice changed have said they are still seeing most people masked.

I was kinda hoping people would lighten up on the "most people are evil, dishonest, and don't care if my grandma dies."

To be honest, I'm kinda disgusted with the attitude that people who are following health guidelines and highly unlikely to be infectious are being viewed with suspicion, disdain, etc.

Personally I don't care what anyone else in a store thinks of me.  I will do what I think is right.  I hope others can stop worrying about irrational reactions to rational behavior.

As someone with immune problems for many years, I have had to look at the "other guy" in order to keep myself safe.  I have masked during flu and cold season.  I have backed away from aisles where someone is coughing and spewing their germs.  I use the sanitizing wipes on the grocery carts.  I have actually stopped an ill guest at the door and told her that I was very sorry but I could not let her come in my house when she was obviously very ill (she was running a fever, coughing, etc.)  (Oh and we're still friends.)  What has happened is that more people are having to behave like me because the stakes have risen for them too.

What we are expressing on this board are our opinions on how to handle a health crisis.  We aren't hissing and making a cross at everyone we think might be "contaminated" on the street.  Different people are making different choices for their families per their own area and own risk assessment.  And as long as it fits the general science, "We" are ok with that. 

[freesia]

I think what makes this hard is it's another bump in the risk assessment game.  I don't personally think vaccinated people need to mask (except in crowded venues, as an extra precaution) particularly when local rates are super low.  I just don't think it's necessary.  But we need to give grace to those who still want to wear masks.  And those who are still wearing masks need to look at their local numbers and give grace to those who are vaccinate and chose not to mask.  The vaccines are very very effective.

I also think outdoor spread is so vanishing small, that unless I were unvaccinated and walking down a busy city street, I agree with the CDC that masks just aren't necessary.  But again, everyone needs to do their own risk assessment.

And we need to be patient with one another.  Those of us who struggle with anxiety (and I do) need to zoom out and keep things in perspective.  If you are still really struggling with anxiety over this even after being vaccinated, my advice is to find someone (like a counselor)who can help you put your actual risk in perspective so that your precautions are out of strength of purpose and not fear.

Those of us who are more pragmatic in attitude need to recognize their risk factors may be different than others.  Realize also that there is life experience that those in hard early hit areas have that you don't.  This is can be a truly horrible virus and is so random in how it hits people. Please respect those who, for whatever reason, are really concerned for themselves and their families.  Let's try hard not to judge each other.

[Catwoman]

29 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yes, it's sad, especially since most of the posters who have mentioned how it is in their area since the mask advice changed have said they are still seeing most people masked.

I was kinda hoping people would lighten up on the "most people are evil, dishonest, and don't care if my grandma dies."

To be honest, I'm kinda disgusted with the attitude that people who are following health guidelines and highly unlikely to be infectious are being viewed with suspicion, disdain, etc.

Personally I don't care what anyone else in a store thinks of me.  I will do what I think is right.  I hope others can stop worrying about irrational reactions to rational behavior.

Irrational reactions to rational behavior? Really? 😡

Well, it must be nice to not have to worry about things like whether or not the unmasked person next to you in a store is vaccinated, but some of us really do have to think about things like that. 

I cant speak for anyone else, but when I am cautious around unmasked people, I am not trying to be mean, and I am certainly not saying that I think anyone is trying to kill Grandma.

I am saying that if my dh contracts Covid, it very well might actually KILL HIM, because the vaccines aren’t proving to be effective for organ transplant recipients. So while I do feel badly that I have to view unmasked people with caution, there is simply no way around it. I have to treat every unmasked person as though they are unvaccinated, unless I know for sure that they are vaccinated — and even then, I will be keeping more distance from them than I would if they were masked.

So you can go ahead and feel “kinda disgusted,” but my dh’s life is worth more to me than worrying about your sweeping generalizations about the mindset of those of us who have no other option than to remain extra-vigilant around unmasked people who may be unmasked. 

Instead of judging those of us who have to worry about Covid every time we leave our homes, how about feeling a little sympathy for the fact that we would love to be like you? We would love to be able to toss our masks in the trash and not worry about what will happen if we get Covid. We would love to be able to freely shop in stores and eat in restaurants and have normal lives again. We would love to be able to assume that our family’s vaccinations were totally effective and that we are safe. We really would. But we can’t. 

I’m sorry to be so hard on you, but you seem to be missing the fact that there are lots of people out there who still have very good reasons for being worried when we are around unmasked people. And really, we don’t hate vaccinated people for being unmasked if they feel safe doing so — we just have to be cautious around them because there is no way to tell which people are vaccinated and which people are unvaccinated, and it would be foolhardy in our situations to do otherwise.

Believe me, we are all waiting for the day when we can stop worrying about all of this. It is exhausting and stressful every single day.

[Catwoman]

14 minutes ago, freesia said:

I think what makes this hard is it's another bump in the risk assessment game.  I don't personally think vaccinated people need to mask (except in crowded venues, as an extra precaution) particularly when local rates are super low.  I just don't think it's necessary.  But we need to give grace to those who still want to wear masks.  And those who are still wearing masks need to look at their local numbers and give grace to those who are vaccinate and chose not to mask.  The vaccines are very very effective.

I also think outdoor spread is so vanishing small, that unless I were unvaccinated and walking down a busy city street, I agree with the CDC that masks just aren't necessary.  But again, everyone needs to do their own risk assessment.

And we need to be patient with one another.  Those of us who struggle with anxiety (and I do) need to zoom out and keep things in perspective.  If you are still really struggling with anxiety over this even after being vaccinated, my advice is to find someone (like a counselor)who can help you put your actual risk in perspective so that your precautions are out of strength of purpose and not fear.

Those of us who are more pragmatic in attitude need to recognize their risk factors may be different than others.  Realize also that there is life experience that those in hard early hit areas have that you don't.  This is can be a truly horrible virus and is so random in how it hits people. Please respect those who, for whatever reason, are really concerned for themselves and their families.  Let's try hard not to judge each other.

Thank you so much for this, Freesia. 

[SKL]

9 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Irrational reactions to rational behavior? Really? 😡

Well, it must be nice to not have to worry about things like whether or not the unmasked person next to you in a store is vaccinated, but some of us really do have to think about things like that. 

I cant speak for anyone else, but when I am cautious around unmasked people, I am not trying to be mean, and I am certainly not saying that I think anyone is trying to kill Grandma.

I am saying that if my dh contracts Covid, it very well might actually KILL HIM, because the vaccines aren’t proving to be effective for organ transplant recipients. So while I do feel badly that I have to view unmasked people with caution, there is simply no way around it. I have to treat every unmasked person as though they are unvaccinated, unless I know for sure that they are vaccinated — and even then, I will be keeping more distance from them than I would if they were masked.

So you can go ahead and feel “kinda disgusted,” but my dh’s life is worth more to me than worrying about your sweeping generalizations about the mindset of those of us who have no other option than to remain extra-vigilant around unmasked people who may be unmasked. 

Instead of judging those of us who have to worry about Covid every time we leave our homes, how about feeling a little sympathy for the fact that we would love to be like you? We would love to be able to toss our masks in the trash and not worry about what will happen if we get Covid. We would love to be able to freely shop in stores and eat in restaurants and have normal lives again. We would love to be able to assume that our family’s vaccinations were totally effective and that we are safe. We really would. But we can’t. 

I’m sorry to be so hard on you, but you seem to be missing the fact that there are lots of people out there who still have very good reasons for being worried when we are around unmasked people. And really, we don’t hate vaccinated people for being unmasked if they feel safe doing so — we just have to be cautious around them because there is no way to tell which people are vaccinated and which people are unvaccinated, and it would be foolhardy in our situations to do otherwise.

Believe me, we are all waiting for the day when we can stop worrying about all of this. It is exhausting and stressful every single day.

I never said people shouldn't exercise caution in whatever way that makes sense for them.  I'm talking about the critical and sometimes downright nasty attitudes toward people who are acting rationally.  You can be cautious without having any kind of attitude about anyone else.

I am cautious in some situations also.  More so than a lot of people here.  But I don't feel "suspicious" etc. about other people who make different choices that are legal and rational from their perspective.  Because what exactly does that help?

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

To be honest, I'm kinda disgusted with the attitude that people who are following health guidelines and highly unlikely to be infectious are being viewed with suspicion, disdain, etc.

 

I've mainly seen people concerned about those that AREN'T going to follow health guidelines.  The guidelines are VACCINATED people can go about without masks.  We all are seeing very frequent cases of people, even on here, admitting that they are going to ditch the masks despite not being vaccinated.   That's what has some of us so concerned. 

[Spy Car]

5 hours ago, TexasProud said:

 

 

I have spent the last 15 months crying my eyes out at night worrying about Honduras, India, Kenya.  I worried about my friend who is battling cancer, taking chemo, yet teaching unvaccinated kids because that is her calling. Working with youth and pouring into their lives when the activities didn't stop.  She is fine.  But I spent so many days and nights over the last 15 months, crying, with this heavy feeling in my chest that the world is ending. 

I just can't anymore. When do I get to smile? I can cry all I want for India ( and believe me, I have) but it doesn't help them.  It doesn't cause any less people to die.  I masked.  I am continuing to mask in certain areas ( like a crowded museum, or doctor's offices, etc.) despite the fact that I am not sure I have to.  I am vaccinated.  In May of 2022, I will get a booster. It is all I can do.  And listening to how horrible everything is on here doesn't help me make anyone's lives better.  At some point, I have to just live life.  Carefully, as I have always done.  If the sky falls, it falls. I have NO power at all as to whether it does or not or whether my friends will die or whether another million people will die in India.  I just have no tears to shed anymore.  

Since I was quoted, I wish to make it absolutely clear that never said nor do I believe what you allege here:

Now all of you are saying that these variants will overwhelm us.  The United States is doomed... 

I think that in this country we are getting a handle on Covid, largely thanks to vaccinations combined with mitigation efforts and a degree of acquired immunity.

These efforts could be more successful if we did not have contingents that remain anti-mask and anti-vax. We also need time until children have the opportunity to be vaccinated and achieve immunity. But we are on the way.

Variants are a concern, but to the best of my knowledge our vaccines are holding and I trust the people who developed the vaccines are working on boosters aimed at known variants. I do NOT think the sky is falling. Nor do I think it is time to declare victory. We have a significant portion of our population that remains vulnerable.

We also face a wide-world population that remains highly-vulnerable. We should, out of both our own self-interest and because it is the right thing to do, become an arsenal of vaccines. We should ramp up production exponentially and work with nations that have their own vaccine-making capacities to coordinate the delivery of the raw materials they need to make vaccines with their current technologies and infrastructures (which in the case of a nation like India is massive).

Personally, I feel "liberated." I'm fairly confident after two rounds of vaccination that I'm at pretty low risk of contracting Covid or--critically--of getting others sick. But I will continue to mask in public spaces as children are not vaccinated and I think masking is the right public policy when we have no enforceable mechanism that keeps unvaccinated people from ditching their masks.

The "honors system" only works when those who are entrusted to follow it have "honor," and that's the opposite of the situation with the dominate anti-mask/anti-vax cohort as I see it.

But I'm optimistic we will get past this despite those who seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Bill
 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Spy Car

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

I've mainly seen people concerned about those that AREN'T going to follow health guidelines.  The guidelines are VACCINATED people can go about without masks.  We all are seeing very frequent cases of people, even on here, admitting that they are going to ditch the masks despite not being vaccinated.   That's what has some of us so concerned. 

I understand that, but you are surely aware that many good, careful, vaccinated people are also going to take off their masks.

Some of the above messages are basically pressuring fully vaccinated people into wearing masks to avoid hateful feelings that are unfair and irrational.  If you're OK with that, whatever, but I'm entitled to my opinion on it.

Edited May 23, 2021 by SKL

[SKL]

Do you all think it should be illegal (or is immoral) to drive on weekend nights, while sober, because there are some people who will drive drunk?

Edited May 23, 2021 by SKL

[Catwoman]

Just now, SKL said:

Do you all think it should be illegal to drive on weekend nights, while sober, because there are some people who will drive drunk?

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous comparison I have ever heard.

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous comparison I have ever heard.

Well be happy that you're entitled to your opinion!

[Danae]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

 

 

I have spent the last 15 months crying my eyes out at night worrying about Honduras, India, Kenya.  I worried about my friend who is battling cancer, taking chemo, yet teaching unvaccinated kids because that is her calling. Working with youth and pouring into their lives when the activities didn't stop.  She is fine.  But I spent so many days and nights over the last 15 months, crying, with this heavy feeling in my chest that the world is ending.  Now all of you are saying that these variants will overwhelm us.  The United States is doomed... 

I just can't anymore. When do I get to smile? I can cry all I want for India ( and believe me, I have) but it doesn't help them.  It doesn't cause any less people to die.  I masked.  I am continuing to mask in certain areas ( like a crowded museum, or doctor's offices, etc.) despite the fact that I am not sure I have to.  I am vaccinated.  In May of 2022, I will get a booster. It is all I can do.  And listening to how horrible everything is on here doesn't help me make anyone's lives better.  At some point, I have to just live life.  Carefully, as I have always done.  If the sky falls, it falls. I have NO power at all as to whether it does or not or whether my friends will die or whether another million people will die in India.  I just have no tears to shed anymore.  

Texas, you’re catastrophizing.  It’s a thing you do, and for your own mental health you probably need to back away.  No one here has ever said everyone is going to die.  The sky is not falling, and it’s not anyone here who has said so.  That’s you. But other people here aren’t going to stop posting about their own fears, and precautions, and losses just because it sets off your doom spiral.  Step away if you need to, but don’t accuse other people of being hysterical or fear-mongers.
 

It’s not either-or.  The virus can be a real problem that isn’t over and people still be “allowed” to smile.   You’re right that performative misery doesn’t help anyone and no one is asking that of you.  

[Terabith]

@TexasProud, did you used to have another username?  You seem uncannily like someone else.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Danae said:

Texas, you’re catastrophizing.  It’s a thing you do, and for your own mental health you probably need to back away.  No one here has ever said everyone is going to die.  The sky is not falling, and it’s not anyone here who has said so.  That’s you. But other people here aren’t going to stop posting about their own fears, and precautions, and losses just because it sets off your doom spiral.  Step away if you need to, but don’t accuse other people of being hysterical or fear-mongers.
 

It’s not either-or.  The virus can be a real problem that isn’t over and people still be “allowed” to smile.   You’re right that performative misery doesn’t help anyone and no one is asking that of you.  

I think it takes wisdom to know when to step away. As everyone has said... this is not a healthy place for you right now, @TexasProud. Not because anything's wrong with you, and not because anything's wrong with everyone else, but because you know from much personal experience that this kind of thing spikes your anxiety in a totally unproductive way. 

I know my own triggers and work hard not to set myself off. I'd recommend the same thing for you. 

[HSmomof2]

I’m also still trying to make sense of it in my mind. We have been very cautious this whole time, pro mask and pro vax. We are all fully vaccinated except dd who just turned 16 and will get her second shot next week. Currently some stores/restaurants are still requiring masks, but I expect this will continue to decrease over the following weeks. Dh works in public health and has been learning about and discussing Covid every single day since the pandemic began in meetings with local and state health departments and has listened in on CDC meetings. We were just discussing how we will “re-integrate” back into our area which will be pretty much re-opened in a month. I feel very nervous about it, even though we’re all almost fully vaccinated. We do agree that the CDC’s recommendations were too early and should have required higher vaccination rates before mask mandates were lifted....especially here where we still have 250+ cases/100,000. However, Dh thinks my health anxiety is fueling my nervousness about not needing a mask anymore more than my actual risk. He  in completely comfortable with vaccinated people not wearing masks in most settings. He trusts the vaccines to work as designed and any spread from vaccinated people will be negligible overall. Here, the anti-mask/anti-vax crowd already have not been masking for months and will continue not to do so. My teen son was yelled at by an apparent anti-masker yesterday just for wearing his mask into the grocery store. When I see someone masked here, I assume they are either already vaccinated or not able to be vaccinated, or have some other health condition, since these seem to be the only people still masked. I suppose if the purpose of me wearing a mask is to protect others from me, then it is probably not necessary to continue to wear one anymore once vaccinated in most settings. In our state, we have a surplus of vaccine at this point. Anyone over 16 could have easily been fully vaccinated by now if they wanted to.  I admit I will be uncomfortable without a mask, but that’s probably more psychological than anything else. I will gladly still wear a mask in medical settings or if I were to be around vulnerable people or worked with children. I’ll continue to mask in businesses that request it, but dh may be right that once dd is fully vaccinated, we can start to live more normally again, but it’s going to take me some time to feel comfortable again without a mask. 

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, HSmomof2 said:

I’m also still trying to make sense of it in my mind. We have been very cautious this whole time, pro mask and pro vax. We are all fully vaccinated except dd who just turned 16 and will get her second shot next week. Currently some stores/restaurants are still requiring masks, but I expect this will continue to decrease over the following weeks. Dh works in public health and has been learning about and discussing Covid every single day since the pandemic began in meetings with local and state health departments and has listened in on CDC meetings. We were just discussing how we will “re-integrate” back into our area which will be pretty much re-opened in a month. I feel very nervous about it, even though we’re all almost fully vaccinated. We do agree that the CDC’s recommendations were too early and should have required higher vaccination rates before mask mandates were lifted....especially here where we still have 250+ cases/100,000. However, Dh thinks my health anxiety is fueling my nervousness about not needing a mask anymore more than my actual risk. He  in completely comfortable with vaccinated people not wearing masks in most settings. He trusts the vaccines to work as designed and any spread from vaccinated people will be negligible overall. Here, the anti-mask/anti-vax crowd already have not been masking for months and will continue not to do so. My teen son was yelled at by an apparent anti-masker yesterday just for wearing his mask into the grocery store. When I see someone masked here, I assume they are either already vaccinated or not able to be vaccinated, or have some other health condition, since these seem to be the only people still masked. I suppose if the purpose of me wearing a mask is to protect others from me, then it is probably not necessary to continue to wear one anymore once vaccinated in most settings. In our state, we have a surplus of vaccine at this point. Anyone over 16 could have easily been fully vaccinated by now if they wanted to.  I admit I will be uncomfortable without a mask, but that’s probably more psychological than anything else. I will gladly still wear a mask in medical settings or if I were to be around vulnerable people or worked with children. I’ll continue to mask in businesses that request it, but dh may be right that once dd is fully vaccinated, we can start to live more normally again, but it’s going to take me some time to feel comfortable again without a mask. 

Me too.  My whole family isn't fully vaccinated, but even if we were it will take me time to be comfortable without one, even in situations where I probably don't need one.  

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

Since I was quoted, I wish to make it absolutely clear that never said nor do I believe what you allege here:

Now all of you are saying that these variants will overwhelm us.  The United States is doomed... 

I think that in this country we are getting a handle on Covid, largely thanks to vaccinations combined with mitigation efforts and a degree of acquired immunity.

These efforts could be more successful if we did not have contingents that remain anti-mask and anti-vax. We also need time until children have the opportunity to be vaccinated and achieve immunity. But we are on the way.

Variants are a concern, but to the best of my knowledge our vaccines are holding and I trust the people who developed the vaccines are working on booster aimed at know variants. I do NOT think the sky is falling. Nor do I think it is time to declare victory. We have a significant portion of our population that remains vulnerable.

We also face a wide-world population that remains highly-vulnerable. We should, out of but our own self-interest and because it is the right thing to do, become an arsenal of vaccines. We should ramp up production exponentially and work with nations that have their own vaccine-making capacities to coordinate the delivery of the raw materials they need to vaccines with their current technologies and infrastructures (which in the case of a nation like India is massive).

Personally, I feel "liberated." I'm fairly confident after two rounds of vaccination that i'm at pretty low risk of contracting Covid or--critically--of getting others sick. But I will continue to mask in public spaces as children are not vaccinated and I think masking is the right public policy when we have no enforceable mechanism that keeps unvaccinated people from ditching their masks.

The "honors system" only works when those who are entrusted to follow with have "honor," and that's the opposite of of the dominate anti-mask/anti-vax cohort as I see it.

But I'm optimistic we will get past this despite those who seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Bill
 

Well said. 

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous comparison I have ever heard.

Not a surprising response, however, given the source.

Bill

 

[kbutton]

15 hours ago, rebcoola said:

If you asked most people around here they would say nothing really happened to anyone.   They know a few people got sick like the flu and got better.  We were one of the hardest hit places in the country last summer.  When they say that they are showing their privilege.  The people sick and dying were not the kinds of people they know.  They were migrant workers, chicken factory workers etc the kind that don't speak English.  The ones who are always forgotten about.

I am trying to figure out how people here see Covid. I know some people got it and are upset that others think it's no big deal, but they don't seem to still be particularly cautious. Others are opposed to any and all efforts to contain it even after getting it and having some lingering symptoms. Others had it and since it was no big deal wish they'd ditched their masks early on. 

I have to read between the lines on FB (if I haven't stopped following them entirely) because most of my social world had totally changed in the last year. Many of my "friends" are people I won't see in person except by accident now as we changed churches due to how things were handled.  

There does seem to be a wide streak of "we're all going to get this, so let's get it over with." It's like they have to prove their faith or political point of view even now that there are vaccines to mitigate this. Not everyone is typically anti-vaccine, but many have become so. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I spent part of today with people less cautious than I am with regards to Covid. They aren’t Covid deniers or anti-maskers. Just less cautious. I took extra for precautions so that I could be with them. I don’t feel angry that I have to take extra precautions. And we had a nice time. (But it helps that while they weren’t as cautious as I was, they didn’t say anything snide or rude to me either..). 

[KeriJ]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I spent part of today with people less cautious than I am with regards to Covid. They aren’t Covid deniers or anti-maskers. Just less cautious. I took extra for precautions so that I could be with them. I don’t feel angry that I have to take extra precautions. And we had a nice time. (But it helps that while they weren’t as cautious as I was, they didn’t say anything snide or rude to me either..). 

That's exactly how our extended family dynamic has been throughout the whole pandemic.  We weren't on the same page,  but everyone stayed kind and gracious. 

[kbutton]

16 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I spent part of today with people less cautious than I am with regards to Covid. They aren’t Covid deniers or anti-maskers. Just less cautious. I took extra for precautions so that I could be with them. I don’t feel angry that I have to take extra precautions. And we had a nice time. (But it helps that while they weren’t as cautious as I was, they didn’t say anything snide or rude to me either..). 

I am going to be seeing some people in this category. I hope they keep comments to themselves. There are snide comments from the past about other subjects, and I already warned the other people who will be present that I will address snide comments head on. I don't want to unnecessarily divide, but my experience of the pandemic has been very different from theirs, and I don't have the bandwidth for snide comments. They are fortunate that there were safer options available to them for social and personal contact the entire pandemic. That is not how it was here.