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@Not_a_Number, @whitestavern

It looks like the the Modena placebo was also saline (quote from the clinical study protocol:

 

"Investigational Product, Dosage, and Route of Administration:

The mRNA-1273 IP is an LNP dispersion of an mRNA encoding the prefusion stabilized S protein of SARS-CoV-2 formulated in LNPs composed of 4 lipids (1 proprietary and 3 commercially available): the proprietary ionizable lipid SM-102; cholesterol; 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3 phosphocholine (DSPC); and 1monomethoxypolyethyleneglycol-2,3-dimyristylglycerol with polyethylene glycol of average molecular weight 2000 (PEG2000-DMG). The mRNA-1273 is provided as a sterile liquid for injection and is a white to off-white dispersion in appearance, at a concentration of 0.2 mg/mL in 20 mM Tris buffer containing 87mg/mL sucrose and 10.7 mM sodium acetate at pH 7.5.

The placebo is 0.9% sodium chloride (normal saline) injection, which meets the criteria of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Penelope said:

I don’t. Only to the extent that someone who feels like they might be coming down with something, or thinks they might have flu, feels comfortable wearing a mask if they have to go out. 
 

I do not see us becoming a culture that masks every winter. 
Although if we did that this winter, and maybe some communities will, it would be a good test of masking, and maybe someone will study it. 
 

If they do work, I am not sure of the long term effects of preventing infection with mostly benign respiratory viruses in young, healthy people. Isn’t there a chance that would come back to bite us with inadequate immunity later on? 
 

What would be cool is if they reduced not infection, but viral load of an infection, so that we could develop some immunity without getting sick. 

In Asian countries masking is the norm.  I’ve never seen anything saying they have weaker immune systems generally.  I wonder if there are studies on that. 

If masking to avoid illness lowered immunity in general, I wonder why we don’t see that as an issue with hand washing.  That lowers our exposure to germs, so it should have same effect I would think.  Are there cultures that don’t wash hands less frequently in general?  I wonder if they have stronger immune systems.  
 

To the bolded, some doctors have speculated that masking does exactly that. 

Edited by HeartString
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22 minutes ago, HeartString said:

In Asian countries masking is the norm.  I’ve never seen anything saying they have weaker immune systems generally.  I wonder if there are studies on that. 

If masking to avoid illness lowered immunity in general, I wonder why we don’t see that as an issue with hand washing.  That lowers our exposure to germs, so it should have same effect I would think.  Are there cultures that don’t wash hands less frequently in general?  I wonder if they have stronger immune systems.  
 

To the bolded, some doctors have speculated that masking does exactly that. 

I think a lot of people don't wash hands in according with guidelines.  In fact, I would guess the % is like 90% if not higher.

I do think there are costs to preventing exposure to the usual mild diseases.  It may be worth it in the short run, but in normal times, I wouldn't recommend masking well children except in particularly high risk situations.

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I don't imagine I (or my kids) will be masking all the time or even seasonally post covid (or post pandemic. I don't know that post covid will ever happen), but I can see them being useful in a lot of situations....like as a precaution in those "probably just allergies" situations, or on public transportation. Or inside at Disney World. My kids hardly ever get sick, but someone managed to pick up something every time we went to Disney World, and often something pretty nasty. But, yeah, I don't think it's reasonable to expect kids to wear masks all day at school (and, of course, kids should be able to be vaccinated by late fall anyway) in normal times, but I can definitely see it in situations where there's a lot of close contact with people from all different places. Personally, I don't mind my kids picking up colds every now and then, but I'd much rather avoid the latest imported stomach bug at Disney World and that kind of thing. 

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2 hours ago, Penelope said:

I think it wasn’t introduced very much due to lack of travel. It never broke out in the Southern Hemisphere last summer, either. And everyone there wasn’t masking everywhere. It could have been a fairly light flu year even without Covid, since we have those every so often. 

Have you seen the charts though? This was way beyond a light flu year. There were just enough cases to show there was a tiny amount circulating, but it was a flat line at the bottom of the chart (I will try to insert a flu chart).  There was a single pediatric flu death, compared to the usual ~150-190. I agree we can’t know which elements contributed most to that, but it was obviously something. I do expect lack of travel helped a lot. Especially in Southern Hemisphere countries. The other interesting (but in a bad way) aspect of the almost non existent flu season is to see how flu was so suppressed, but Covid still managed to rage. Demonstrates how much more contagious than flu it is. 

B31E689A-C0E6-41A7-8E05-064DAE4EF727.png

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Well, Maine's Gov just said she's dropping the mask mandate for all. I don't get it. So a week ago people unvaccinated should still mask, and now they don't have to? Wondering what this means for schools and businesses. 

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3 hours ago, Penelope said:

We’ll never know. And there is much that isn’t known about influenza. This just came out, showing that about half of flu infections are asymptomatic, and that asymptomatic infected people can transmit to others. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214109X21001418

Good advertisement for the flu shot. 😉 

3 hours ago, Penelope said:

I don’t. Only to the extent that someone who feels like they might be coming down with something, or thinks they might have flu, feels comfortable wearing a mask if they have to go out.

What would be cool is if they reduced not infection, but viral load of an infection, so that we could develop some immunity without getting sick. 

It would be cool if we could get to a point where people mask when they don't feel well, or they mask proactively, say, it's near a major holiday, and they mask to avoid catching something that they'll pass along to family. 

I think it would also be nice for it to be seen as not unusual to mask. Those who want to mask even more often are free to do so. 

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32 minutes ago, Kanin said:

Well, Maine's Gov just said she's dropping the mask mandate for all. I don't get it. So a week ago people unvaccinated should still mask, and now they don't have to? Wondering what this means for schools and businesses. 

Our governor completely dropped the mask mandate last Friday. But from what I can tell the vast majority of people are still masking inside businesses.

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10 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Our governor completely dropped the mask mandate last Friday. But from what I can tell the vast majority of people are still masking inside businesses.

I just went shopping up in 'live free or die' NH yesterday, where I think the mask mandate has been largely dropped, although I'm not sure if it's still in effect for the city of Nashua, where they've been generally more strict.  Anyway, happy to see not a single unmasked person, not even outside in the Home Depot garden center...

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28 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I just went shopping up in 'live free or die' NH yesterday, where I think the mask mandate has been largely dropped, although I'm not sure if it's still in effect for the city of Nashua, where they've been generally more strict.  Anyway, happy to see not a single unmasked person, not even outside in the Home Depot garden center...

I'm noticing that here, too. The mask mandate is now up to individual stores to manage, but most businesses still have their signs up and people are still largely masked. I'm relieved.

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1 hour ago, KSera said:

Have you seen the charts though? This was way beyond a light flu year. There were just enough cases to show there was a tiny amount circulating, but it was a flat line at the bottom of the chart (I will try to insert a flu chart).  There was a single pediatric flu death, compared to the usual ~150-190. I agree we can’t know which elements contributed most to that, but it was obviously something. I do expect lack of travel helped a lot. Especially in Southern Hemisphere countries. The other interesting (but in a bad way) aspect of the almost non existent flu season is to see how flu was so suppressed, but Covid still managed to rage. Demonstrates how much more contagious than flu it is. 

B31E689A-C0E6-41A7-8E05-064DAE4EF727.png

Yes.  Canada has had 68 lab confirmed flu this season for the whole country.  Usual annual numbers are approx 50,000.  That's a nearly thousand-fold decrease.  Three orders of magnitude.  And 31 of those 68 cases were associated with viral shedding secondary to live attenuated vaccine (ie Flumist), and hence do not represent community acquired flu:

"To date this season, 68 influenza detections have been reported (Figure 2), which is significantly lower than the past six seasons where an average of 49,641 influenza detections were reported for the season to date. All provinces and territories are closely monitoring indicators of influenza activity this season. Data in the FluWatch report represent surveillance data available at the time of writing, and may change as updates are received.

Thirty-one of the influenza detections reported to date this season are known to be associated with recent live attenuated influenza vaccine (LAIV) receipt and do not represent community circulation of seasonal influenza viruses. LAIV strains are attenuated but can be recovered by nasal swab in children and adults following vaccination with that product (i.e., "shedding")

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5 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I had the same sort of thing-hives for several days following the vaccine dose. But, I have hashimoto's, and I'm one of the lucky people who gets hives as a result when my immune system is upset at all. So, while I reported them to VaxSafe, mentally I'm considering that a side effect of Hashimoto's, not necessarily the vaccine. Because yeah, that's a logical reason for my immune system to be upset, but I'm getting the same symptoms now, and it's probably because we have L's grad party tomorrow!!

Right, and correlation is not the same as causation.

I broke out into hives a few days before my first vaccine. I did so because it's peak pollen season here, and I've been off my immunosuppressants since the beginning of April in prep for the vaccine. I also had a flare in the hours before that first dose.  Right, there's no causation as no dose had been administered. But those symptoms could have just as easily started a couple of days later and I would have thought causation if I wasn't particularly attuned to this issue. 

Same deal round 2. The night of my second dose I ran a low grade fever and I felt a bit achey.  This is exactly how I feel during a flare. I have no idea if one triggered the other or if both just happened to happen side by side. 

---------------

5 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I am really hoping all these young kids keep the habits of hand sanitation intact. And that schools keep stocking soap and paper towels in supply. Seriously, that has been one of the major changes in the pandemic-we actually have soap, so the kids CAN wash their hands!!

Same.  The elementary was always out.  The hand sanitizer stand outside of the cafeteria was present year round, but I NEVER saw sanitizer in it prior to covid despite checking several times a week. One of the things that has come out of covid is that everyone is sanitizing hands upon entering the building (don't think that will continue in the fall) and they bought several hand washing stations (I do hope that will continue). The current building design cannot accommodate kids washing their hands before eating or after return from recess without those additional stations.

-------------------

It's the end of the week here.  AFAIK, we went from fully masking everywhere indoors at the beginning of the week to only needing to mask in schools, at healthcare offices, Home Depot, and at one grocery store chain.  Everyone here is largely unmasked. I'm super interested to see what happens with new infection rates this month. I think they will continue to decline as the weather is lovely and people are out a lot and we have had some decent vaccination numbers.....but I'm not too sure of my prediction. 

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Posted (edited)

Wonder if this the sort of reaction the CDC was hoping for:

Quote

Nearly 100 people refused to wear face masks as required or leave the Thursday night meeting of the Gwinnett County Board of Education, shouting and arguing until board members left and convened the meeting in another room.

https://www.ajc.com/news/anti-mask-crowd-disrupts-gwinnett-school-board-meeting/IYO7R6GHJ5DTLEFCQHER7V3GBA/

nice work, folks:

Quote

As the crowd shouted and argued with each other, many foreign language students who were waiting to be recognized for their achievements left with their families.

 

Edited by kokotg
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2 hours ago, kokotg said:

I don't imagine I (or my kids) will be masking all the time or even seasonally post covid (or post pandemic. I don't know that post covid will ever happen), but I can see them being useful in a lot of situations....like as a precaution in those "probably just allergies" situations, or on public transportation. Or inside at Disney World. My kids hardly ever get sick, but someone managed to pick up something every time we went to Disney World, and often something pretty nasty. But, yeah, I don't think it's reasonable to expect kids to wear masks all day at school (and, of course, kids should be able to be vaccinated by late fall anyway) in normal times, but I can definitely see it in situations where there's a lot of close contact with people from all different places. Personally, I don't mind my kids picking up colds every now and then, but I'd much rather avoid the latest imported stomach bug at Disney World and that kind of thing. 

Just a jumping off point for my musing…I don’t want or plan to mask all of the time, or want others to. I’d love it if masking could become the normal thing for someone to do when they are out and sick.  

Little Johnny threw up last night but you all just had to come to church today? Mask.  

You’ve been sick but want to try to come to co-op anyway and plan to just leave early if you start to feel bad? Mask.

 Running into the store to get meds for your cold because you’re the mama and no one else can go.  Mask. 

Also at the doctor.  How many times have I taken a kid to the doctor for something mild and everyone gets the flu?  Can we also keep up waiting in our car instead of germy waiting rooms? I ❤️ that.  

I could also see masking myself when I have something is coming up that I’d rather not miss due to illness, like a trip, or before a friend or family members birth if I want to see the baby, or on an airplane or other known vector for disease. 

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1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm noticing that here, too. The mask mandate is now up to individual stores to manage, but most businesses still have their signs up and people are still largely masked. I'm relieved.

I think we still have a mandate for a couple of weeks. Stores have signs up, and the people that were masking before are still masking. It really does depend on the store--our local Lowe's clientele has always had fairly poor mask compliance for some reason, and it still does. Other stores have had a higher number of maskers than I expected given what it was like before we had a mandate.

1 hour ago, Plum said:

This is why I liked that the CDC is empowering people to decide for themselves and I didn’t believe there are nearly as many liars as people think. 

I do think we'll have changing circumstances that can't be predicted, but masking here was super poor until it was mandated. Our governor literally told people that he was expecting us all to rise to the occasion because we're good people, etc. Didn't happen. He reluctantly finally mandated it, and the honest folks masked up. Until we had a sustained surge where people were dying and the hospitals were sometimes just a bed or two from all out chaos, the holdouts would not mask, and it was a pretty darn large group. There were some that never did mask, and there are lots of people that deny their noses are part of their respiratory tract. Some schools even had poor compliance.

I am not sure what will happen the day our mandate expires. 

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6 hours ago, kokotg said:

So many kids were in school, though--I think it was 50% by winter. That would explain a big reduction in flu, but not it being almost non-existent. Most of the kids who were in school were wearing masks, though. I suspect people being more likely to stay home when they were sick this year had something to do with it, too. It would be interesting to see numbers on whether flu was more prevalent in areas where kids were in school and also to see if mask mandates (in schools, especially, but elsewhere, too) correlated with local flu numbers. 

I do think it's enough to explain it being almost non-existent.  Flu is like covid, it only gains a foothold if, on average, each person who has it infects more than one other person.  In typical years, the R0 for flu (the number of people the average person with the flu infects) is between 1 and 2.  So, if we halved that number, by having the number of people the average person is exposed to, then the number will be below 1, and cases will drop steadily, or never really start.  

 

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1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 Everyone here is largely unmasked. I'm super interested to see what happens with new infection rates this month. I think they will continue to decline as the weather is lovely and people are out a lot and we have had some decent vaccination numbers.....but I'm not too sure of my prediction. 

I saw an interesting article in the Washington Post today breaking out the case numbers across the country to show what they actually are as a portion of the unvaccinated population in each area. What it showed, is that the risk level to unvaccinated people is still the same as it was during the January surge in many places across the country right now. It's much lower for the vaccinated, but unvaccinated people might be getting a false sense of security by looking at the case numbers averaged over the whole population, but it's a much different story when looking at them as a proportion of unvaccinated people. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, KSera said:

I saw an interesting article in the Washington Post today breaking out the case numbers across the country to show what they actually are as a portion of the unvaccinated population in each area. What it showed, is that the risk level to unvaccinated people is still the same as it was during the January surge in many places across the country right now. It's much lower for the vaccinated, but unvaccinated people might be getting a false sense of security by looking at the case numbers averaged over the whole population, but it's a much different story when looking at them as a proportion of unvaccinated people. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/

This is true here. When I look at case incidence numbers, we look like February. We had a huge jump a month ago, coincidentally when schools opened for in person learning. When you look at variant genotyping of the cases here, it’s not surprising why we also see increased transmissibility. I also see a ton of people who don’t know if they have allergies or covid and aren’t getting tested. So??? The good news is that deaths are down. Hospitalizations spiked a month ago, but are trending back down, slowly.

ETA: it’s this on the scenes data plus the dropping of the mask mandate that has me keeping my young kid at home. With her asthma, she doesn’t even handle a basic cold well. I hate the “all young kids are fine” rhetoric I hear. I do see kids getting severe cold level sick and needing nebulizer treatment. They just aren’t being hospitalized, so it’s considered minor. 

Edited by prairiewindmomma
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Interestingly enough since most stores here have now dropped the mask requirement, I’m seeing more people wear masks. 🤷‍♀️ Yesterday and today I have been shocked that so many were wearing masks when I was out. These are the same stores that just a week ago had few masked people. 

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20 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

Interestingly enough since most stores here have now dropped the mask requirement, I’m seeing more people wear masks. 🤷‍♀️ Yesterday and today I have been shocked that so many were wearing masks when I was out. These are the same stores that just a week ago had few masked people. 

That is interesting. All I can think is maybe it’s unvaccinated people wanting to protect themselves from all the vaccine supposedly floating through the air 🤷‍♀️😂

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, KSera said:

That is interesting. All I can think is maybe it’s unvaccinated people wanting to protect themselves from all the vaccine supposedly floating through the air 🤷‍♀️😂

I went to Wal-Mart this morning.  The signs outside still said masks required, but there isn't a local mandate in effect and corporate said they're not requiring them from vaccinated people.  Probably 90% were still masked, but I just can't figure out why so many people had them under their chins or noses.  If you don't want to wear it and nobody is checking your vax card, why not take the dang thing off instead of pretending?  They just look so amazingly dumb.

Edited by Syllieann
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1 hour ago, Joker2 said:

Interestingly enough since most stores here have now dropped the mask requirement, I’m seeing more people wear masks. 🤷‍♀️ Yesterday and today I have been shocked that so many were wearing masks when I was out. These are the same stores that just a week ago had few masked people. 

I think in some cases, that's happening here as well. I wonder if it's because it's optional, so it is no longer a political statement to go maskless. Or, possibly, now that I'm expecting to see more maskless people, I'm noticing those that are masked more, while previously everyone was supposed to be masked, so I really keyed in on those without them. 

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I would love to still see intermittent masking. Personally, when we have travel coming up I am always so paranoid one of my children will get sick and it will spoil the vacation. It would be great to have them mask in crowded situations for a week ahead of time. 

Also we live in the land of "it's just allergies," which is almost certainly only true half the time. It'd be nice if those folks (including my DD) masked when out.

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6 minutes ago, Sk8ermaiden said:

I would love to still see intermittent masking. Personally, when we have travel coming up I am always so paranoid one of my children will get sick and it will spoil the vacation. It would be great to have them mask in crowded situations for a week ahead of time. 

Also we live in the land of "it's just allergies," which is almost certainly only true half the time. It'd be nice if those folks (including my DD) masked when out.

And, honestly, masking has helped my allergies more than practically anything else. If I don't wear a mask outside because I'm not going to be near anyone else, it definitely makes a major difference in my symptoms, especially when the trees are trying frantically to reproduce.  

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I'm on a facebook group for moms in our town, and someone posted a question today asking if kids too young to be vaccinated were required to mask when out in public indoors, and everyone was saying, "Nobody knows/ It's confusing/ You go by what the store's signs say."  Some of the people saying that there was no way to know if kids had to mask were people who I know are very pro mask and pro vaccination, so I kind of am wondering if the information is genuinely confusing?  

I posted that the CDC was very clear that everyone who is unvaccinated, including young children, needed to mask in public indoors, and that I would mask in solidarity with the kids.  But the amount of confusion even from people who are in favor of masks really concerns me.  

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1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

And, honestly, masking has helped my allergies more than practically anything else. If I don't wear a mask outside because I'm not going to be near anyone else, it definitely makes a major difference in my symptoms, especially when the trees are trying frantically to reproduce.  

That’s why the Japanese mask (Koreans and Chinese too), it is useful for hay fever as well as flu season.

 

I’m in Sacramento waiting for my oldest to finish his CHSPE. None of the parents and kids are masking while waiting outside the lobby door. We are the only ones masking. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm on a facebook group for moms in our town, and someone posted a question today asking if kids too young to be vaccinated were required to mask when out in public indoors, and everyone was saying, "Nobody knows/ It's confusing/ You go by what the store's signs say."  Some of the people saying that there was no way to know if kids had to mask were people who I know are very pro mask and pro vaccination, so I kind of am wondering if the information is genuinely confusing?  

I posted that the CDC was very clear that everyone who is unvaccinated, including young children, needed to mask in public indoors, and that I would mask in solidarity with the kids.  But the amount of confusion even from people who are in favor of masks really concerns me.  

I can see some of that though.  Where I live masks weren’t required under 10 for awhile. Then it was 5.  But at the doctor’s office is 2.  So it’s weird for kids between 2-10.  Especially 2-5.  If I hadn’t been making my 3 year old mask because he’s under 5, am I supposed to start making him now?  
 

I have also noticed a certain amount of….being determined to find everything confusing.  

Edited by HeartString
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2 minutes ago, HeartString said:

I can see some of that though.  Where I live masks weren’t required under 10 for awhile. Then it was 5.  But at the doctor’s office is 2.  So it’s weird for kids between 2-10.  Especially 2-5.  If I hadn’t been making my 3 year old mask because he’s under 5, am I supposed to start making him now?  
 

I have also noticed a certain amount of….being determined to find everything confusing.  

Right.  I think we might be in the same state, because we had the same dynamic with the original order being for 10 and up and then switched to 5 and up, but CDC/ doctors said 2 and up.  I can see how it would be confusing if you had littles, especially if they are very mask resistant.  My oldest has sensory issues and at 17, definitely understands the rationale behind masks but absolutely hates them.  If the pandemic had hit when they were 2, I'm not sure I would have been able to keep a mask on them.  In practice, they just would have stayed home, but there are times when I don't know what I would have done.  (Doctor's visits, emergency grocery runs, etc).  

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Our county just called it: masks recommended instead of required for schools as of June 1, because with the new CDC guidance it would be "impractical" to try to figure out who's vaccinated and who's not. Or they could, you know, just keep following the CDC guidelines for schools, which the CDC says haven't changed. School's out before June 1, so I don't really have it in me to get that worked up, but the willful ignorance drives me a bit crazy: "what could we DO?! The CDC made us do it!" It's the county the CDC is literally located in, so if they didn't see this kind of thing coming, they really should have. 

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10 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm noticing that here, too. The mask mandate is now up to individual stores to manage, but most businesses still have their signs up and people are still largely masked. I'm relieved.

Here too.

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9 hours ago, kokotg said:

Our county just called it: masks recommended instead of required for schools as of June 1, because with the new CDC guidance it would be "impractical" to try to figure out who's vaccinated and who's not. Or they could, you know, just keep following the CDC guidelines for schools, which the CDC says haven't changed. School's out before June 1, so I don't really have it in me to get that worked up, but the willful ignorance drives me a bit crazy: "what could we DO?! The CDC made us do it!" It's the county the CDC is literally located in, so if they didn't see this kind of thing coming, they really should have. 

Right now it's pretty easy. Anyone under 16 will not be fully vsccinated by June 1. 

 

Here, they actually do know most of the teachers and school staff that are because they were eligible before high risk adults, and the big school districts did pop ups for their staff. And even most of the teachers outside of school districts (like me) went through pop ups specifically for teachers, so we signed in with not just our name, but our employer as well. I know my suburb was bragging about vaccinating over 90% of their school staff. 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Right now it's pretty easy. Anyone under 16 will not be fully vsccinated by June 1. 

 

Here, they actually do know most of the teachers and school staff that are because they were eligible before high risk adults, and the big school districts did pop ups for their staff. And even most of the teachers outside of school districts (like me) went through pop ups specifically for teachers, so we signed in with not just our name, but our employer as well. I know my suburb was bragging about vaccinating over 90% of their school staff. 

Right--I'll make it easy for you, schools: 0% of the elementary school students have been vaccinated, so 100% of them should still be wearing masks. Part of the announcement was bragging that 80% of staff that responded to a survey they sent out have been vaccinated. Clearly they deliberately pushed it back to after school was out so that it wouldn't matter that much (is there in person summer school for elementary students? I don't know), but it would be nice if for once they just had the courage to say, "we're sticking with CDC guidelines, because we think they're a better source of information than the random angry parents who are making our lives difficult right now."

Edited by kokotg
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I have a mug that says “I knit so I don’t kill people.” There's this gal in my knitting circle, and, well, let's just say I knitted harder and at a tighter gauge than I have in my life when the group met this week. We are still meeting outdoors, rotating between each of our porches. Anyway, this woman is very anti-mask, and has been from the beginning, although she did get vaccinated because she has diabetes and high blood pressure, and MS. This week, she announced that “The CDC dropped the mask mandate and everyone should stop masking because we need to see what happens if we don’t wear masks, and we need to see where the surges will be.”  🤯 (Feel free to imagine a witty, data-packed reply I could have used here. I was too gobsmacked by her utter stupidity to do anything except knit on in silence and try to suppress my desire to poke her in the eye with a sock needle.) 

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Did anyone see this?  Encouraging news.
 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-05-21/breakthrough-coronavirus-infections-of-vaccinated-people-exceedingly-rare-in-l-a-county?fbclid=IwAR3s7n3XDd04XBvZe7rvCq5ddccfZskdn16nnnLa_y_2gzvOkPaKSq19n8c

Of the 3.3 million L.A. County residents fully vaccinated as of May 7, only 933 — or 0.03% — later tested positive for the coronavirus, including people who showed no symptoms but were tested anyway because of workplace requirements, Ferrer said.

 

 

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1 minute ago, HeartString said:

Did anyone see this?  Encouraging news.
 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-05-21/breakthrough-coronavirus-infections-of-vaccinated-people-exceedingly-rare-in-l-a-county?fbclid=IwAR3s7n3XDd04XBvZe7rvCq5ddccfZskdn16nnnLa_y_2gzvOkPaKSq19n8c

Of the 3.3 million L.A. County residents fully vaccinated as of May 7, only 933 — or 0.03% — later tested positive for the coronavirus, including people who showed no symptoms but were tested anyway because of workplace requirements, Ferrer said.

 

 

I wish they'd say what the percentage was for people who aren't vaccinated!

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Much to my surprise, even though I live in an area with a very high vaccination rate, people are still 100% masking around here. I expected some people to still be masking—even most, but 100% is actually shocking me. 

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1 minute ago, freesia said:

Much to my surprise, even though I live in an area with a very high vaccination rate, people are still 100% masking around here. I expected some people to still be masking—even most, but 100% is actually shocking me. 

I think people in high vaccination areas are the people who are going to keep masking 😛 . I don't think this is going to go quite like the CDC wants, although I'm glad it prompted a few people. I wonder if there were more effective prompts, though... 

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2 hours ago, HeartString said:

Of the 3.3 million L.A. County residents fully vaccinated as of May 7, only 933 — or 0.03% — later tested positive for the coronavirus, including people who showed no symptoms but were tested anyway because of workplace requirements, Ferrer said.

 

I wonder what percentage of those tested were positive, since not all 3.3 million were tested. Still, very encouraging!!

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1 hour ago, freesia said:

Much to my surprise, even though I live in an area with a very high vaccination rate, people are still 100% masking around here. I expected some people to still be masking—even most, but 100% is actually shocking me. 

When my wife and I went out for our first adventure around Los Angeles (after 14 months) last Sunday, I did not see a single person in an indoor space who was unmasked.

It was highly gratifying.

Bill

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1 minute ago, Spy Car said:

When my wife and I went out for our first adventure around Los Angeles (after 14 months) last Sunday, I did not see a single person in an indoor space who was unmasked.

It was highly gratifying.

Bill

I just went to a Whole Foods in a Boston suburb. I didn’t see a single unmasked face.

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Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I just went to a Whole Foods in a Boston suburb. I didn’t see a single unmasked face.

By coincidence, we also went in to a Whole Foods. They opened a brand new gleaming super-store in Sherman Oaks--a bit much for my taste--but I need some Siggi's filmjölk to use as a starter. Everyone masked. The same was true all over town.

Including stores where the clientele was more comprised of "everyday people."

Bill

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Posted (edited)

I have been out and about more in the past week than in the past year+. Every.single.person indoors has still been masking properly, even in the mall. Because there is still total compliance with common sense, I didn’t feel nearly as nervous/apprehensive as I thought I might, and feel encouraged by re-integration.

I did just return from a track meet and masking was around 50/50. I’m fine with that outdoors, especially since people were pretty well spaced out. Earlier this week I even had coffee outdoors in the park with a friend I hadn’t seen in 6 months, and felt comfortable not masking (though we did on our walk, when we couldn’t be distanced). ETA we are both fully vaccinated and vaccination rates in my area are very high.
 

 

Edited by MEmama
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It is nice to see some areas are still masking, even some without mandates.  Sadly, my area is not.  We have a lot of people who "identify as vaccinated" and businesses that just plain don't care.  We still have a mask mandate, though I am not sure if we have switched to the CDC guidelines or not.  The state website still has the same information as it has for months, so I am not sure when the vaccinated people can stop masking most places takes affect.

I am seeing less and less masks every time I go out.  Last night DH and DD went to pick up take out and said only one person was wearing a mask.  We also have several restaurants that opened when they weren't supposed to and are fighting huge fines right now.  A lot of people in my area are very anti-mask and anti-vax.  Our numbers have gone down after spiking in March, but I think are starting to trend up again.  Surprisingly we have 41% of eligible people fully vaxed and 50% of eligible people who have initiated.  I don't think the percentages will go up much, but I hope I am wrong.

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I went to the grocery store this morning. They’ve taken down their “masks required” signs and none of the employees were masked.  But every single customer was.  
 

Future epidemiologists studying this pandemic are going to have to do a lot of work to sort out mask wearing vs mask mandates when trying to determine the effect of interventions.

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Question - and maybe this is the wrong place to ask.  I'm fully vaccinated and so is my family.  Our area has very few new cases of Covid.  Would it be bad for me to be unmasked in the store?  My feeling is that my risk of getting sick is very low - lower than when I go out during flu season.  I hardly ever go out so I wouldn't be transmitting anything (I haven't been out in almost two weeks).  I hate wearing masks, but don't want others to think I'm being inconsiderate or worse.  

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7 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Question - and maybe this is the wrong place to ask.  I'm fully vaccinated and so is my family.  Our area has very few new cases of Covid.  Would it be bad for me to be unmasked in the store?  My feeling is that my risk of getting sick is very low - lower than when I go out during flu season.  I hardly ever go out so I wouldn't be transmitting anything (I haven't been out in almost two weeks).  I hate wearing masks, but don't want others to think I'm being inconsiderate or worse.  

If your state or city doesn’t still have a mandate and the store doesn’t have a masks required policy then you’re fine.  
 

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7 minutes ago, Danae said:

If your state or city doesn’t still have a mandate and the store doesn’t have a masks required policy then you’re fine.  
 

No mandates and the stores where I shop dropped the mask requirements.  Thank you!  

 

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4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think people in high vaccination areas are the people who are going to keep masking 😛 . I don't think this is going to go quite like the CDC wants, although I'm glad it prompted a few people. I wonder if there were more effective prompts, though... 

Not sure what the CDC wants but I can tell you in my area, which never had a mask mandate, now hardly anyone is wearing a mask, including people I know who were doing so before, but have now stopped, despite not being vaccinated. Before you say I may not know, believe me when I say the ones I know definitely have not been vaccinated.

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31 minutes ago, Kassia said:

No mandates and the stores where I shop dropped the mask requirements.  Thank you!  

 

I think you are fine to go unmasked if you aren’t concerned about possibly picking up a variant or something, but if cases are very low in your area, you are probably pretty safe.

I have to admit that if I saw you unmasked in a store, I would avoid you like the plague, but I would never say anything rude to you. I am just treating anyone who is unmasked as being potentially unvaccinated, and because my family has to be extra-cautious, I am trying to steer clear of anyone without a mask on. 

But that’s my issue to deal with, not yours!!! 

 

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