Deleted - thank you.

[lauraw4321]

You’ve given me some great food for thought. Thank you all so much. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by lauraw4321

[historically accurate]

No advice, but hugs to you.

[Alicia64]

((((Lauraw4321)))),

I share your beliefs. Three years ago, I stumbled on this amazing podcast that I've never spent a dime on. And listening to this woman gave me a new lease on life. Sounds dorky, but I'm being sincere.

Again, it doesn't cost to listen to her podcast. She really puts her heart and soul into each 20 min. podcast that comes out on Thursdays. I think now she's on #350 or something, but start at the very beginning. Start on number one go to number two etc.

Several podcasts spoke to me so much that I listened again and again and again.

This is good stuff.

Her name is Brook Castillo and she trains people in becoming life coaches, but the podcasts are for everyone. (For example, I never plan to be a life coach.)

Enjoy, I think you'll be very pleased.

Wendy

[MercyA]

I wish I had some great advice, but I just want to say that I agree with you--staying is the right thing. Of that I am absolutely sure.  to you.

[Anne]

I agree that staying is the right decision.  But so is being emotionally healthy!!  Will he go to counseling?   Even if he won't, you should consider it anyway, especially if you know of a good counselor!

(((hugs)))

Anne

[DawnM]

I am just going to put this out there.   Several of my friends and I have gone through somewhat similar feelings, and when I look back, most of it was during that gawd-awful peri-menopausal years.   Many of us have come out on the other side feeling differently and appreciating our spouses more again.   

Several also went on some sort of low dose anti-depressant, which helped.   Even if they weren't textbook "depressed", just the agitation of general life was lessened by the aid of some sort of meds (even natural stuff.)

Just something to consider.

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

I am just going to put this out there.   Several of my friends and I have gone through somewhat similar feelings, and when I look back, most of it was during that gawd-awful peri-menopausal years.   Many of us have come out on the other side feeling differently and appreciating our spouses more again.   

Several also went on some sort of low dose anti-depressant, which helped.   Even if they weren't textbook "depressed", just the agitation of general life was lessened by the aid of some sort of meds (even natural stuff.)

Just something to consider.

I am depressed but am treated for it medically. I don’t think I’m peri-menopausal yet, based on what my MD told me early this year. 
It feels like when we first got married I was immature and needed to grow and change a lot. And he seems to not have grown. Does that make sense?

[Guest]

The book I have recommended on here again and again is It Takes One to Tango by Winifred Reilly. I need to give that a re-read, in fact. I like that she comes from the standpoint of just deciding on *your* behavior. It really saved me. A lot of the bad blood in relationships has to do with our disappointments of the person not being/doing XYZ (or doing ABC negative things). 

I have also found great help in deciding what *I* am going to do/be. Setting my own goals and making my own plans. Like, for a small example, my dh does not like to travel and has no interest in Europe. So I went there without him (twice). Lots of stuff in that vein: I decide what plans *I* am going to make a reality and if he isn’t going to join me - oh well! 

[DawnM]

5 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I am depressed but am treated for it medically. I don’t think I’m peri-menopausal yet, based on what my MD told me early this year. 
It feels like when we first got married I was immature and needed to grow and change a lot. And he seems to not have grown. Does that make sense?

 

You don't have to answer this, but are you seeing anyone to discuss some of this?

[lauraw4321]

3 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

You don't have to answer this, but are you seeing anyone to discuss some of this?

I hope to next year. I’m think finding a therapist will be daunting, but I’m going to try. 

[lauraw4321]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

The book I have recommended on here again and again is It Takes One to Tango by Winifred Reilly. I need to give that a re-read, in fact. I like that she comes from the standpoint of just deciding on *your* behavior. It really saved me. A lot of the bad blood in relationships has to do with our disappointments of the person not being/doing XYZ (or doing ABC negative things). 

I have also found great help in deciding what *I* am going to do/be. Setting my own goals and making my own plans. Like, for a small example, my dh does not like to travel and has no interest in Europe. So I went there without him (twice). Lots of stuff in that vein: I decide what plans *I* am going to make a reality and if he isn’t going to join me - oh well! 

I was hoping you would respond because I thought you had a good book recommendation. Thank you!

[marbel]

edited

Edited December 28, 2020 by marbel

[Ottakee]

I share the same basic beliefs as you have.  That said, I did find myself divorced . . . after my husband was arrested and convicted as a s*x offender.  Being alone is hard.

First, if your husband is not abusive to you or your kids, then yes, staying is likely the right thing to do.  If there is abuse, then a separation or other measures need to be taken.

Can you find one or two things that you guys enjoy together and do those things?  Then, for other things, find a group of friends to do those things.  Like, if you like hiking and he doesn't, go on day hikes with friends or a local group.

  If you and dh both like pizza, maybe try ordering from various local and not so local places (esp. if weather is decent for a picnic) and then rate the pizzas to find your favorite.  That might be a hokey example, but spending time together on something he enjoys and you also like might help.

But then as other mentioned, you might need a good best friend or friend group to help meet other social and emotional needs.  Some of my friends have great husbands but they are not their "best friend"....they have another woman for that role.

[ktgrok]

A few thoughts. If he is willing AT ALL to work on this  then the Marriage Builders website and books are great. 

That said, I do NOT believe that the only abuse is physical. I've seen many women say they are staying since he doesn't hit them - but he belittles them, controls them, treats them badly and reduces their self esteem. And their kids are growing up witnessing this. And then will have that as thir example of what a relationship looks like. 

I never thought I'd get divorced. I didn't believe in it. But I saw the impact my bad marriage and my husband's neglect was having on my son, and knew I had to leave. Had I not had a son, I might have stayed - in the I made my bed I'll lie in it vein. But my son deserved more. 

So, in case this isn't a friendly thing that just doesn't feel romantic, and is an actual neglect or emotional abuse situation - keep that in mind. 

[lauraw4321]

11 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

I share the same basic beliefs as you have.  That said, I did find myself divorced . . . after my husband was arrested and convicted as a s*x offender.  Being alone is hard.

First, if your husband is not abusive to you or your kids, then yes, staying is likely the right thing to do.  If there is abuse, then a separation or other measures need to be taken.

Can you find one or two things that you guys enjoy together and do those things?  Then, for other things, find a group of friends to do those things.  Like, if you like hiking and he doesn't, go on day hikes with friends or a local group.

  If you and dh both like pizza, maybe try ordering from various local and not so local places (esp. if weather is decent for a picnic) and then rate the pizzas to find your favorite.  That might be a hokey example, but spending time together on something he enjoys and you also like might help.

But then as other mentioned, you might need a good best friend or friend group to help meet other social and emotional needs.  Some of my friends have great husbands but they are not their "best friend"....they have another woman for that role.

That would be a qualifying reason for me as well. 
 

I have a BF, but CV has diminished our relationship. 

[lauraw4321]

Just now, ktgrok said:

A few thoughts. If he is willing AT ALL to work on this  then the Marriage Builders website and books are great. 

That said, I do NOT believe that the only abuse is physical. I've seen many women say they are staying since he doesn't hit them - but he belittles them, controls them, treats them badly and reduces their self esteem. And their kids are growing up witnessing this. And then will have that as thir example of what a relationship looks like. 

I never thought I'd get divorced. I didn't believe in it. But I saw the impact my bad marriage and my husband's neglect was having on my son, and knew I had to leave. Had I not had a son, I might have stayed - in the I made my bed I'll lie in it vein. But my son deserved more. 

So, in case this isn't a friendly thing that just doesn't feel romantic, and is an actual neglect or emotional abuse situation - keep that in mind. 

I completely understand and agree. There is no abuse. Just ... neglect is too strong a word. Disregard? Taking for granted?  More along those lines. 

[lauraw4321]

3 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

A few thoughts. If he is willing AT ALL to work on this  then the Marriage Builders website and books are great. 

That said, I do NOT believe that the only abuse is physical. I've seen many women say they are staying since he doesn't hit them - but he belittles them, controls them, treats them badly and reduces their self esteem. And their kids are growing up witnessing this. And then will have that as thir example of what a relationship looks like. 

I never thought I'd get divorced. I didn't believe in it. But I saw the impact my bad marriage and my husband's neglect was having on my son, and knew I had to leave. Had I not had a son, I might have stayed - in the I made my bed I'll lie in it vein. But my son deserved more. 

So, in case this isn't a friendly thing that just doesn't feel romantic, and is an actual neglect or emotional abuse situation - keep that in mind. 

And RE marriage builders: is it kosher to say I’m not willing to invest that level of effort? I’m tired of trying. Maybe I could convince him and drag him along half-heartedly. Experience tells me nothing would change and he’d just do it to placate me. 

[Not_a_Number]

I'm not religious but I also tend to believe that staying is best for the kids. 

I think @Quill is absolutely that the best thing you can do is to work on your own behavior. If you think the marriage is GOOD for the kids the way it is, then that's the right approach. 

But I also think that @ktgrok has a point, which is that watching bad marriages isn't always good for the kids, either. So I would think about what your marriage is currently communicating to your kids as well. Are you teaching them about how people should be treated? Are they, in fact, getting stability out of your union? 

(I know that however frustrated I get with my DH, my kids ARE getting stability and love out of our union that they would not if we separated. So that influences my own decisions.) 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Amy Gen]

1 minute ago, lauraw4321 said:

Disregard? Taking for granted?  More along those lines. 

When I have felt this way in my almost 30 year marriage, I mentally release Dh from responsibility for my happiness. Then I think about things I can do that make my happy but don’t require anything from him. I take the kids out to lunch. I go visit a girlfriend for deep conversations about the meaning of life. I exercise. I cook what I like to eat. 
 

I’m not being manipulative or trying to make him jealous. I’m just taking care of myself. 
 

Sooner or later, my husband looks up and thinks, “Oh, shoot, they are having a lot of fun. I want to be part of that!” 
 

This only works because Dh really does love us and want to engage. He just forgets that marriage requires attention sometimes. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Amy Gen said:

I’m not being manipulative or trying to make him jealous. I’m just taking care of myself. 
 

Sooner or later, my husband looks up and thinks, “Oh, shoot, they are having a lot of fun. I want to be part of that!” 
 

This only works because Dh really does love us and want to engage. He just forgets that marriage requires attention sometimes. 

 

I think this works better with people who can take a hint, lol. I have the kind of DH who has to be hit on the head with the kinds of things I might want out of him, and it's really tiring. 

[livetoread]

My parents are conservative Christians, and my mother chose to stay in her marriage with my father after he cheated and was generally self-centered. That was thirty-some years ago. He's still self-centered, but much less so, especially as he aged. As one of the children, I do think we benefitted from her staying. I'm not sure she benefitted, but it was the choice she made. They went to counseling which Mom says was marginally helpful for the two of them, but very helpful for her. The therapist pulled Mom aside and told her to build her own life, because Dad was probably never going to be able to be a true intimate partner for her. She did, and while we had to listen to him complain about her independence and how it felt like living with a roommate, it allowed her to be happy. I think ultimately he respected her more, even though he felt more lonely. They are in their 80s now, and he can't say enough good about her, though he is still kind of self-centered when it comes to figuring out how to be with her, lol. Anyway, just wanted to second the whole "you are responsible for your happiness" thing, and people can stay married while not being emotionally intimate. Marriage can be lots of things.

Editing to add that while Mom did build her own life, as far as I know, she was still faithful to him. It makes me sad to think of her never really experiencing what it's like to be loved in a romantic way by someone who is capable of unselfish love, but her faith tells her there are more important things. He loves her, just has trouble seeing her as her own person with her own needs different from his.

Edited December 28, 2020 by livetoread

[lauraw4321]

I tell him what I need / want. He forgets. He has pretty severe ADHD.  But I’m tired of hoping for something that won’t happen. 

[lauraw4321]

11 minutes ago, livetoread said:

My parents are conservative Christians, and my mother chose to stay in her marriage with my father after he cheated and was generally self-centered. That was thirty-some years ago. He's still self-centered, but much less so, especially as he aged. As one of the children, I do think we benefitted from her staying. I'm not sure she benefitted, but it was the choice she made. They went to counseling which Mom says was marginally helpful for the two of them, but very helpful for her. The therapist pulled Mom aside and told her to build her own life, because Dad was probably never going to be able to be a true intimate partner for her. She did, and while we had to listen to him complain about her independence and how it felt like living with a roommate, it allowed her to be happy. I think ultimately he respected her more, even though he felt more lonely. They are in their 80s now, and he can't say enough good about her, though he is still kind of self-centered when it comes to figuring out how to be with her, lol. Anyway, just wanted to second the whole "you are responsible for your happiness" thing, and people can stay married while not being emotionally intimate. Marriage can be lots of things.

Editing to add that while Mom did build her own life, as far as I know, she was still faithful to him. It makes me sad to think of her never really experiencing what it's like to be loved in a romantic way by someone who is capable of unselfish love, but her faith tells her there are more important things. He loves her, just has trouble seeing her as her own person with her own needs different from his.

This was very helpful to me. Thank you. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, livetoread said:

Anyway, just wanted to second the whole "you are responsible for your happiness" thing, and people can stay married while not being emotionally intimate. Marriage can be lots of things.

I agree. It probably sounds silly, but I spent (spend) a lot of time thinking about the fact that, throughout much of history and in most cultures, marriage was a financial and social contract. I’m sure fondness or even love often developed, but having your very own “best friend” was not an aspect of most marriages throughout history, at least when the marriage began. 

I do not have that “best friend” aspect in my marriage. Sometimes, I feel the disappointment of that and wish it were different, but most of the time, I don’t dwell on it. I have other best friends. I have other friends who are my “book friends” or my “practice French” friends or my “drink wine” friends. It would be fun if dh wanted to read avidly and speak French and drink wine, but he doesn’t.  So oh well. 

[hippymamato3]

You only get one life. I don't know that staying in a miserable, disappointing relationship is what God wants for any of us. Just a thought. I know everyone will say to stay, but...it's ok to look for happiness in your ONE life on this earth. 

As far as staying for the children, that may or may not be best for them. It depends on what your relationship is modeling to them for their future. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by hippymamato3

[lauraw4321]

3 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

You only get one life. I don't know that staying in a miserable, disappointing relationship is what God wants for any of us. Just a thought. I know everyone will say to stay, but...it's ok to look for happiness in your ONE life on this earth. 

As far as staying for the children, that may or may not be best for them. It depends on what your relationship is modeling to them for their future. 

I’m not miserable. Nor are the kids. Maybe when they are adults I will re-think. I made a commitment. Moderate unhappiness isn’t sufficient to upend my family. 

[Amy Gen]

17 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I tell him what I need / want. He forgets. He has pretty severe ADHD.  But I’m tired of hoping for something that won’t happen. 

My husband doesn’t have ADHD, but we do have a child with Autism who seems to take after his side of the family. I spent years resentful of exactly what you just said. 
 

Finally I realized that he can’t/won’t change. I need to find my happy way forward that doesn’t include his needing to change. I’ve been happier since then. 
 

I’m just never going to have that marriage in my imagination, but there are things I can enjoy about the marriage I do have. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Amy Gen
Grammar

[Ottakee]

Would your husband treat his adhd?  That might make a huge difference in your relationship.  Prescription meds can make a big difference.  Even a high quality fish oil can help.

[lauraw4321]

2 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Would your husband treat his adhd?  That might make a huge difference in your relationship.  Prescription meds can make a big difference.  Even a high quality fish oil can help.

He is medicated. This is life with him medicated. 😥

[Ottakee]

Have they tried other meds?  Doses?  Supplements?

[marbel]

edited

Edited December 28, 2020 by marbel

[scholastica]

If you are committed to staying married and are looking to get therapy, then a Marriage Friendly therapist is worth looking into. They will not tell you stay in an abusive situation, but if staying married is important to you, they will help you work on it. Even by yourself if your spouse won’t come. 
 

I’m sorry you are going through this. I hope you find peace.

[Carol in Cal.]

I remember when I was single a lot of the advice about how to find a spouse was along the lines of “Be a great person, don’t go looking, live your life, pursue your interests, distract yourself, and let it happen.”  And I think that that is kind of true of marriage at times.  It’s good to pursue one’s own interests, and to be kind, and to be interesting, and to have friends.  Doesn’t mean to be insensitive or throw in this the spouse’s face.  It’s just a tiny smidge of detachment, not much, coupled with genuine other interests and other friendships.  And it can strengthen a marriage not to have all your emotional eggs in one basket.  And if it doesn’t strengthen the marriage at least it takes some of the pressure of expectations off of it.

Also, it’s worth thinking through what drew you to him in the first place, and whether what you’re not liking now is the flip side of that.  When I met DH, he was one of the few people I knew that when he left work, he LEFT WORK.  He didn’t really talk about it much, and he was done for the day, undaunted by it.  And also, he didn’t make a lot of plans, so if I said, hey, let’s head for the mountains this weekend, he would be up for it in a heartbeat.  The flip side of that was, he doesn’t plan, and that sometimes drives me nuts.  But usually I’m like, well, it’s refreshing a lot, so I’ll focus on that aspect of it.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[gardenmom5]

  I believe the proper order of a relationship is: love of God, love of spouse.  And considering Heavenly Father expects us to love our spouses . . . . .Part of how we show Him we want to obey Him, is to love our spouse.  (so the pious "i'm serving God" - while neglecting a spouse is actually someone who is "doing it wrong". - they're neither honoring God - or their spouse.)

 

I believe divorce is unfortunate, but sometimes (sadly) necessary. HOWEVER ----------I believe it's far more than "physically beating, or cheating".    

Psychological abuse is real - and it does longer lasting damage than physical abuse.  Broken bones and bruises heal - but being told how  (eg.) worthless you are over and over - plays over and over in your head perpetuating the self-image of you being worthless.  Even after the divorce is over and you never see them again because you got sole custody of any kids.  It also gets ignored because "you're just too sensitive", "that's just how __ is, and you need to get used to it", "you need to be a good Christian and turn the other cheek"  (response: and if the 'speaker' was being Christian they wouldn't stand by and allow someone to be abused!) . . . . .   (Dr Ramani has a good segment on how this is perpetuated in the workplace, allowing narcissistic/abusive people to continue running roughshod over coworkers.)

The damage caused by a parent who is addicted (drugs, gambling, spending, p*rn, etc., etc. etc.) is real and shouldn't be underestimated.   

Telling a spouse how they should dress, spend their time, etc. - is demeaning and lowering of their spirit.  It is a form of abuse, it denies personhood to that spouse.

 We had a Bishop (minister) with a MFT.  He used to repeat, it takes two people to be married, and one person to be divorced.  If both people are *honestly* trying (as opposed to one-or-both paying lip service without any real effort) - It might be a bad patch that can be overcome.  If only one person is wants to make things work,  . . . . .  There's a reason one simile for a good, working, marriage partnership is two ox - equally yoked.  If only one is pulling, they're not going anywhere.

Cheating doesn't have to be physical - it can be emotional.  It's something that takes attachment away from the marriage.  I've known two couples who broke up because one partner became emotionally involved with someone else.  neither were physical, and both parties believed they didn't do anything wrong because "they weren't having an affair".    (except, their "friendships" led to divorce, and marrying the new "friend")

[lauraw4321]

19 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

  I believe the proper order of a relationship is: love of God, love of spouse.  And considering Heavenly Father expects us to love our spouses . . . . .Part of how we show Him we want to obey Him, is to love our spouse.  (so the pious "i'm serving God" - while neglecting a spouse is actually someone who is "doing it wrong". - they're neither honoring God - or their spouse.)

 

I believe divorce is unfortunate, but sometimes (sadly) necessary. HOWEVER ----------I believe it's far more than "physically beating, or cheating".    

Psychological abuse is real - and it does longer lasting damage than physical abuse.  Broken bones and bruises heal - but being told how  (eg.) worthless you are over and over - plays over and over in your head perpetuating the self-image of you being worthless.  Even after the divorce is over and you never see them again because you got sole custody of any kids.  It also gets ignored because "you're just too sensitive", "that's just how __ is, and you need to get used to it", "you need to be a good Christian and turn the other cheek"  (response: and if the 'speaker' was being Christian they wouldn't stand by and allow someone to be abused!) . . . . .   (Dr Ramani has a good segment on how this is perpetuated in the workplace, allowing narcissistic/abusive people to continue running roughshod over coworkers.)

The damage caused by a parent who is addicted (drugs, gambling, spending, p*rn, etc., etc. etc.) is real and shouldn't be underestimated.   

Telling a spouse how they should dress, spend their time, etc. - is demeaning and lowering of their spirit.  It is a form of abuse, it denies personhood to that spouse.

 We had a Bishop (minister) with a MFT.  He used to repeat, it takes two people to be married, and one person to be divorced.  If both people are *honestly* trying (as opposed to one-or-both paying lip service without any real effort) - It might be a bad patch that can be overcome.  If only one person is wants to make things work,  . . . . .  There's a reason one simile for a good, working, marriage partnership is two ox - equally yoked.  If only one is pulling, they're not going anywhere.

Cheating doesn't have to be physical - it can be emotional.  It's something that takes attachment away from the marriage.  I've known two couples who broke up because one partner became emotionally involved with someone else.  neither were physical, and both parties believed they didn't do anything wrong because "they weren't having an affair".    (except, their "friendships" led to divorce, and marrying the new "friend")

I was being glib and simplistic when I said the beating and cheating. It’s shorthand for the fact that nothing he does arises to the level of abuse. There are no affairs or inappropriate “friendships.”  His “crime” is not noticing me and not caring. He’s hypocritical and doesn’t self-examine. Pretty normal, human stuff. I think *my* existence would be simpler separate. I also think my preferences are insufficient justification to divorce. YMMV. I have very conditioned thinking around this and I haven’t seen much to change my mind. 
I’m sure in his mind he is “working” our marriage. And given what I’ve seen of the males of our species, I know I have little to complain about. 

[Garga]

4 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

I tell him what I need / want. He forgets. He has pretty severe ADHD.  But I’m tired of hoping for something that won’t happen. 

Ah. Yes.

My dh has ADHD. 

About 2 or 3 years ago I finally let him off the hook for fulfilling me emotionally. I told him that it wasn’t fair to expect something from him that he just can’t give. I told him that it wasn’t fair to expect this one person (him) to be everything to another person (me.)  And then I started investing more time in my female friends who could meet my particular needs and I started doing my own activities. Like he hates movies. But I adore movies. So, (until covid hit), I went out to the movies every single week for 3.5 years with a couple of girlfriends and found great refreshment from them.

It took me until 25 years in my marriage to fully understand that ADHD is a real disability and being married to someone with it means that I am living with someone with a real disability.  (I am so sorry if this is offensive to any hiver with ADHD who is reading this. Perhaps your ADHD isn’t like this at all, but DH’s is. I have had to learn how to deal with the ADHD that affects both him and me.)

He simply doesn’t have the ability to give me what I want in some areas. And when I came to that realization, it was very, very sad to me. But I didn’t want to leave him over it and disrupt the family. So I decided to find ways to get what I need and still have a good relationship with DH.  I didn’t want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 

I feel exactly like you (I actually think this about once a week)—where I got married at 19 and was young and immature, but I matured...and I feel like my dh didn’t. I feel like sometimes I’m still waiting for him to grow up.  And he’s 52 now, so....it’s been a long wait.

There is a book called, “Is it you, me, or adult A.D.D?” about dealing with being married to someone with ADHD. I never read the book itself, but read a few of the comments on amazon and people seem to like it. By the time I found out about the book, I felt like I already had made peace with his ADHD and how I was going to handle it so I didn’t read it. But maybe if you read it, it will give you some insights into your own marriage.

Once I came to terms with the fact that I am not married to a neurotypical person, it changed my attitude toward him.  My dh seriously is incapable of meeting some of my needs due to his disability. And after 28 years of this, I’m realizing it’s a very real disability.  It’s not a choice on his part. It’s how he’s made. Part of my own maturity is recognizing that he can’t be something he’s not. I cannot ask him to be something he is incapable of being. So I released some expectations and found peace.

Do I let him off the hook for everything?  Nope. Part of his ADHD means he cuts me off and talks over me excessively. Or he plays non-stop devil’s advocate (while overtalking). I’ve told him that when he does that I will not talk with him anymore. And I’ve followed through. I’ve cut off conversations when he gets this way. I do it politely and without shaming him, but I still do it and he’s improving in that area.

And after 3 years of shutting him out and cutting him off when he talks over me or plays devil’s advocate, I have found myself opening up to him the way I do with girlfriends (accidentally), and instead of him making me regret opening up...he’s actually listened.  Three years ago, he’d have been cutting me off or playing devil’s advocate or telling me why I was doing it wrong, but just tonight, I was talking about a parenting thing and he just...listened.  

So, there might be hope.  But I let go of expecting him to be able to listen to me and hear me and be mature about some things. And I also didn’t let him carry on with his most annoying conversational habits...and things are different now. I can talk to him more now.

When I was at the 7 year mark in my marriage, I was on the verge of leaving him. My thought then was, “Can I live like this for the next twenty years?” and looking at that loooong future living “like this” seemed intolerable. But I stuck around for the same sort of reasons you are sticking around.

Well, it’s been 21 years since then and I’m glad I didn’t leave him. I wonder about what path I might have taken and if it would have been better. But I don’t know. It might have been much worse. He’s a good man and he’s good to me. He loves me. He takes care of us. It’s just that his adhd is a real issue in our marriage and I’m learning now to live around it.

 

Google “married to someone with adhd”.  Here is just one article out of many that I found when I googled it. You’ll probably read it and be like, “OMG! YES! THIS!!!” There are a bunch of articles out there about being the partner to someone with ADHD and the very real challenges involved.  Maybe articles like this will help you. I read a bunch of these back 3ish years ago when I started changing my expectations.  It helped me to let go of my own expectations and be able to love the man I had and not the dream man I wish I had. 

It’s exactly like we tell each other here about our children, “teach the child in front of you, not some dream student that’s only in your head.”  

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Garga

[Scarlett]

I just had a wonderful long conversation with my former Sister-in-law about the marriages we failed at with two brothers. Frankly we both stayed longer than was healthy.  I stayed 26 years she stayed 15.  I do believ in staying married absent abuse,  or infidelity.

[kbutton]

I can’t respond with Garga’s maturity, but some of her suggestions are spot on.

ADHD stinks. Medication only goes so far—it’s far more effective for kids because they can form better habits when they are young. It’s harder for adults to do that, even with effective meds.

ADHD plus 6 or 7 years of peri menopause (early peri menopause!!!) stinks.

ADHD plus parenting kids with ADHD (and more) stinks, and it’s really hard to parent the kids in front of you when you’re responding to the frustration of wanting them to avoid the future you’re living right now. It’s a big distraction and worry—instead of seeing them for who they are, you see what you don’t want them to do when they’re grown. And if the kids do actually do better, then it makes entrenched spousal ADHD behaviors all the more frustrating. If the immature kids with more labels than the DH can get their act together...it’s just unrelenting.

[Tanaqui]

Divorce isn't great for kids... but it's also not great for them to grow up with unhappily married parents who would rather be divorced and are only sticking together out of a vague idea that it's "better for the kids".

Do you want your kids to grow up thinking that this is what they can expect, to be stuck in a marriage with somebody who ignores them and doesn't care about them? Do you want them to think it's okay to treat their partner that way, to ignore the person they're married to?

That's the example you're setting.

[BakersDozen]

2 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

And given what I’ve seen of the males of our species, I know I have little to complain about.

This is what I always come to when sifting through marriage/relationship issues. It seems like a laughable comment but is so very, very true.

[TravelingChris]

6 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

I hope to next year. I’m think finding a therapist will be daunting, but I’m going to try. 

Can I recommend online counseling?  I have found that to be very helpful- not with your issue but actually there are many more counselors who deal with marriage issues than with issues with chronic illness/disability/  And I have read some recent article that a lot of people are finding online counselors very helpful and they think the trend will continue.;

[Kanin]

7 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Divorce isn't great for kids... but it's also not great for them to grow up with unhappily married parents who would rather be divorced and are only sticking together out of a vague idea that it's "better for the kids".

Do you want your kids to grow up thinking that this is what they can expect, to be stuck in a marriage with somebody who ignores them and doesn't care about them? Do you want them to think it's okay to treat their partner that way, to ignore the person they're married to?

That's the example you're setting.

I can only speak for myself, but I was sooo relieved when my parents split up. I finally didn't have to worry about how my parents were getting along and it was great. My mom was really sad for a few years but now she says she can't believe she stayed married as long as she did. 

There has got to be a big difference in how kids perceive two happy adults being married, and two unhappy adults remaining married. 

[scholastica]

There is so much wisdom in what Garga said. I, too, have a spouse with ADHD. He was not diagnosed until he was an adult. He does recognize it and is frustrated by it himself. It is a very real disability and I see how he struggles. Despite that, he is very good at his job and works very hard. 
I had to accept that this was not going to change. I had to accept that part of my loving him was being the frontal lobe for both of us in many areas. When I find myself frustrated, I remind myself of all his wonderful qualities and that I, too, am not perfect. Nobody is perfect, no marriage is perfect and being single and parenting with a former spouse is very difficult. 
Definitely get some counseling for yourself, and deal with your depression. Depression lies to us and sometimes tells us that things would be “better if only” when that is not necessarily the case.

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, scholastica said:

There is so much wisdom in what Garga said. I, too, have a spouse with ADHD. He was not diagnosed until he was an adult. He does recognize it and is frustrated by it himself. It is a very real disability and I see how he struggles. Despite that, he is very good at his job and works very hard. 
I had to accept that this was not going to change. I had to accept that part of my loving him was being the frontal lobe for both of us in many areas. When I find myself frustrated, I remind myself of all his wonderful qualities and that I, too, am not perfect. Nobody is perfect, no marriage is perfect and being single and parenting with a former spouse is very difficult. 
Definitely get some counseling for yourself, and deal with your depression. Depression lies to us and sometimes tells us that things would be “better if only” when that is not necessarily the case.

all of this is true. 

[Tanaqui]

3 hours ago, Kanin said:

I can only speak for myself, but I was sooo relieved when my parents split up. I finally didn't have to worry about how my parents were getting along and it was great. My mom was really sad for a few years but now she says she can't believe she stayed married as long as she did. 

There has got to be a big difference in how kids perceive two happy adults being married, and two unhappy adults remaining married. 

I read once - I don't remember where, so this is the epitome of anecdata, and it's not even my anecdote! - that it's a known thing that college counseling centers get an uptick after the first break, all the freshmen whose parents were waiting until the last kid went to college to split up.

Either the parents hid it really well and the kids were totally blindsided, or they didn't and the kids are furious that their parents made their childhood and adolescence miserable out of some idea that this was "better" for them. However it shakes out, it's not better to wait until the kids are grown for their sake.

[City Mouse]

My story is much like Garza’s. My DH has ADHD and probably dyslexia. Two now adult kids with ADHD. One of them has autism, and the other has LD-also probably dyslexia. We dont have a “typical” marriage or a “typical” family/kids, but that is ok. I have mostly figured out what is okay for us. Other people probably think that it is quite strange the DH and I often vacation separately, but it works for us. We both have lots of interests that the other does not share, but we do have some things that we enjoy together. I think that having separate interests and activities , and being ok with it, has allowed us to stay married 30 years. Also, I an an extreme introvert, and DH is the opposite. Neither one of us would be happy if we still thought that we had to spend most of our time together. However, it took a lot of time and soul searching for me to come to that realization. At my worst, when my kids were little, i had gotten as far as looking for apartments. 
I have also found that many couples that project “typical” or storybook type relationships have problems that are being hidden. I think the divorce rates support this.

 

[Katy]

My therapist sibling would argue but if he’s ambivalent and you want to focus on you, find a cognitive behavioral therapist for you. It will help your happiness immensely. 
 

eta: therapist sibling would say marriage & family therapy will help you express your needs.  It sounds to me that it might be healthier for you to focus on what you can control just now- like you. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Katy

[Clear Creek]

Your comment about him not seeming to have matured since you got married as young adults made me think of this chart. I found the chart very helpful, not only for having appropriate expectations of my child with ADHD, but with understanding that my husband's executive function age didn't (and won't) progress past the chronological age of 21. So I have to stop expecting it to. And I have to choose to live with him like that because this isn't something he can change or fix. It isn't something he is doing on purpose to hurt or annoy or exasperate me; he is honestly doing the best he can with the brain that he has. I have to remind myself daily that he has good intentions towards me.

I understand the struggles of being married to someone with ADHD. On the one hand my husband appears to be a mature adult and has worked at the same job for 15 years and is wonderful at it. But on the other hand he will never, ever be good with money. Or remember that after dinner the kitchen needs cleaned up...it is an absolute surprise to him every evening. I have had to learn the hard way that I have to be the one to pay the bills and budget our money. I also have to either clean the kitchen by myself every evening (and have a good attitude about it) or ask the kids to help, because he will inevitably go straight from dinner to watching tv with the kids - not because he wants to leave me with the cleanup, but because it literally doesn't register with him that it needs done, the same way that it doesn't register with him that he needs to close a drawer after opening it.

I don't think that people who don't have a spouse with ADHD can understand. From the outside it can look pretty intolerable, and I will admit to dreaming often of living alone. But I still love him, and he treats me well and loves me greatly. He just has the executive function skills of a teenage boy, and that can put an incredible strain on the marriage.

[Scarlett]

Can someone tell me how you go about finding a good on line marriage counselor?

[scholastica]

Marriage Friendly Therapists . I linked up thread to this list. They work with people who would like to stay married.