Deleted

[Calizzy]

Deleted. I really do appreciate the alternate perspectives, but I would hate for my neighbor to stumble onto this post so I have deleted it. Thanks!

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Calizzy

[Catwoman]

I would never force my child to play with another child.

You can suggest it as a kind thing to do, but if she doesn’t want to play with the kid, that should be her decision to make.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Catwoman

[JustEm]

In your position, I would encourage group play and ask all your girls and the other girls to try to help the other girl feel more included and help her fit in.  I wouldn't expect any of my children to play one on one with a kid they did not enjoy plying with, especially multiple times a week.  

Have you sat down with your dd and talked about possible things she'd be ok doing with that neighbor girl by herself.  Like my dd has a neighbor friend who she loves swimming with, playing sports with, and jumping on the trampoline.  But she hates just sitting and talking with the girl.  She has another neighbor friend who she enjoys baking with but not much else.  Instead of just making your dd spend time with the neighbor girl can you help her figure out activities with this girl that might be more tolerable.

[Katy]

I would ask why she doesn't like her.  If it's just that they don't click, I probably would force the issue, because it's mean to not be inclusive.

There may be a good reason she doesn't want to play with her, one that you would agree with too.  Listen first, then decide.

[Tanaqui]

This other girl doesn't like being left out... but she also doesn't like being the obvious pity playmate, the girl whose neighbors are forced to play with her. You're not really doing her any favors by perpetuating this.q

[SKL]

Well, assuming your daughter doesn't have a good reason to avoid the girl, I think I would continue to try to get them together from time to time.  Maybe if you did it at your house your daughter would feel more comfortable?  Perhaps you could bring out a fun game, toy, snack, or sports equipment that is reserved for friend visits.  Give your daughter advance warning and keep the visits to a pre-set, reasonably short duration.

To me, a good goal is to try to get the "crisis schooler" familiar enough with your daughter that she could successfully join the group when all the neighborhood girls play.

I wouldn't keep it up forever if it was not working, but I would give it a bit more of a chance at this point.

[Farrar]

No, I would not force her. I might suggest or urge her to try and include her, but if she's going to make a stink, that's clearly not going to be in the girl's favor. I would lay down any consequences if she is actually rude or unkind to this girl. Sometimes there's a very thin line there between just not enjoying another kid and thinking it's okay to go along with others call names and the like.

I think this is a really tough thing. The year I was dean at a small school, I felt like I spent an inordinate amount of time dealing with issues similar to this. In general, I found that it was often to really call out the kids on when they had crossed the line in terms of exclusion. Like, it's okay not to want to hang out with another kid and you're not obliged to do so. However, it's rude and cruel to say things like, "I don't like you, so we're all going over there to get away from you now." And a lot of the time, it's hard for kids to understand where that line is. Often, I spent a lot of time helping the excluded kid learn to pick up some social currency to fit in. But seeing as this isn't your kid, it's not for you to take on. Your dd's only obligation is to be kind. And I would emphasize that to her. About how to be kind, even if you don't want to be friends.

[MEmama]

26 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I would never force my child to play with another child.

You can suggest it as a kind thing to do, but if she doesn’t want to play with the kid, that should be her decision to make.

This.

You might think you are being kind to the neighbor, but how are you being kind to your daughter by not respecting her feelings? 

[Bambam]

I would try to organize/arrange group play activities in the evening where everyone could play together (tag, running through sprinklers, drawing obstacle course and everyone ride their bikes through it, decorate drive ways with chalk, etc) so that child could be included. 

If my child had tried to play with this girl several times and did not want to go back, I wouldn't make her. 

It is not your responsibility to provide or find a playmate for this child. You tried, but it didn't work for your family. If there is a local homeschool support group, suggest she join that.  

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Bambam

[J-rap]

I'd definitely listen to my dd and accept her feelings as real.  I would also talk with her about how sometimes it's just nice to reach out to someone who is otherwise lonely and having a difficult time.  I wouldn't force her anymore to go to her house to play if she doesn't want to (and maybe there's something else about the home that makes your dd feel uncomfortable as well).  But, I might require her to invite her over now and then, and have a specific fun activity planned with set hours, and you be a part of it too.  Like, making candy together, or playing a board game together.

Maybe now and then, you can invite the other girls over too.  Don't leave them on their own though, but manage it yourself in order to keep everyone together, like doing a craft project together that you're leading, or something along those lines.

We did place a high priority on reaching out to kids who were lonely or left out.  I didn't force my kids to spend time with them alone though, if my kids didn't want to or felt uncomfortable, but we'd invite them to birthday parties, or special events which I was part of too.

 

 

[marbel]

We used to be friends with a family that had kids about the same age as mine.  My son and the boy about his age were not compatible at all. When the families got together, the boys hung out/played together but only then. The other mom used to invite my son to go over to their house when my daughter was going to see theirs, but we usually declined. They just didn't get along. When I finally just said it to the other boy's mom, it was such a relief because, you know, we can't all be compatible with everyone! And she got it, and there was no tension at all.

So, I think if you want to have your daughter reach out to this girl, you should reach out to the mom and have the whole family over, or the moms and girls for some activity. But I would not force a child to play with someone with whom she is incompatible. 

But first, as others have said, I would dig to find out what it is your daughter does not like. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by marbel

[SquirrellyMama]

Yes, I would make her play with the other girl. I have made my kids play with kids who were lonely and awkward. It was the kind thing to do. I have also hung out with their moms who were lonely and awkward because it was kind. We found things to talk about. 

I won't ever look back and regret doing this.

I have from time to time decided not to hang out with certain people and didn't force my kids to play with their kids. They were the holier than thou personality types

 

Kelly

[catz]

When my kids were younger we had neighborhood kids in and out all the time.  I would encourage group play and inclusivity that way.  Especially outdoors right now.  But I wouldn't go out of my way to do something special to accommodate one particular child.  

[MrsMommy]

No.

[Zebra]

Absolutely not.

Kids need to feel respected and allowed to have some boundaries too.    She doesn't need to be cruel to this girl, but I don't think she should be forced to play with her either.   It sets a bad precedent IMHO.

[Kebo]

If you had the neighbor's girl over to hang out with your three girls, do you think it's possible she might get along well with either your older or younger daughter?  Just because two people are close in age doesn't make them a match, but she might be a good friend to one of the others.  Or not ... but you wouldn't have much to lose by inviting her over to play board games, or watch a movie, or build a fort or whatever your girls like to do. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Kebo

[Calizzy]

.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Calizzy

[freesia]

I have been in a similar situation and it is really hard. Until my ds was 13 I did “make” him. A part of me regrets it because part of the other child’s awkwardness led to behaviors which were mean to my ds. I kept explaining them away, but they had an impact on ds and I think it would have been better to send him a clear message that no one can treat you unkindly. So you might want to find out if she is very critical or rigid.

I would work on teaching her to include the girl in the group. That is the right thing to do. And yes, doing that has led to my ds being excluded bc the others didn’t want a child around. It is still the right thing to not exclude someone in a group/public setting. 

If you think it’s a matter of not clicking, I would probably have her over a few times with a project like baking. Sometimes it takes a while for friendship to develop. A book club is another idea. Under your circumstances I probably wouldn’t send dd where I couldn’t watch and see what is actually going on. 

Oh—another thing I’ve done is suggest to a parent their child watch the Marvel Movies ( insert whatever is popular with the neighborhood gang.) its a good idea for kids to have common, easy interests in common. 

[Melissa in Australia]

I was the other girl.

Eventually You get use to keeping your own company and not having friends, and grow up to not need other people 

[hippiemamato3]

5 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I was the other girl.

Eventually You get use to keeping your own company and not having friends, and grow up to not need other people 

That seems a little dramatic in regards to this other child. Right now she is homeschooling and doesn't have friends ON HER STREET. That doesn't mean she's never going to have friends. Not everyone clicks, and that's ok. I'd still encourage her to play from time to time unless there's a specific reason not to...but otherwise, this little girl and her mom can join homeschool groups and meet some other friends. 

[Melissa in Australia]

2 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

That seems a little dramatic in regards to this other child. Right now she is homeschooling and doesn't have friends ON HER STREET. That doesn't mean she's never going to have friends. Not everyone clicks, and that's ok. I'd still encourage her to play from time to time unless there's a specific reason not to...but otherwise, this little girl and her mom can join homeschool groups and meet some other friends. 

Believe me I was that other girl. 

I didn't have a friend in my street, in my school, in my town. 

Nothing dramatic about it. There are little girls that nobody wants to play with. They don't click with them, they don't fit in their social circle, they couldn't be bothered to make the little girl feel like a friend or a valued human. Those little girls get use to it. That is just  the way life is. It is a fact. 

[Moonhawk]

If the neighbor girl is going through shock of regular school to home school, I can understand it being difficult on her and the mom looking for anyone to fill the social side, even someone who isn't the best fit.

Could you and the mom instead set it up not to be "fun playtime" but that you do a set activity, like art stuff, together? Quasi school. So she gets a little bit of socialization but your daughter doesn't have to overly interact with her and play with someone she doesn't click with. 

I'd either do this or group playtime, but would not force one on ones. 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, J-rap said:

I'd definitely listen to my dd and accept her feelings as real.  I would also talk with her about how sometimes it's just nice to reach out to someone who is otherwise lonely and having a difficult time.  I wouldn't force her anymore to go to her house to play if she doesn't want to (and maybe there's something else about the home that makes your dd feel uncomfortable as well).  But, I might require her to invite her over now and then, and have a specific fun activity planned with set hours, and you be a part of it too.  Like, making candy together, or playing a board game together.

Maybe now and then, you can invite the other girls over too.  Don't leave them on their own though, but manage it yourself in order to keep everyone together, like doing a craft project together that you're leading, or something along those lines.

We did place a high priority on reaching out to kids who were lonely or left out.  I didn't force my kids to spend time with them alone though, if my kids didn't want to or felt uncomfortable, but we'd invite them to birthday parties, or special events which I was part of too.

 

 

 

This.

and also where you can see how other girl acts... what is “weird”? And is it something that should perhaps be brought to attention of her mom who could perhaps help? 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Calizzy said:

But when I ask why she doesn't want to play she just says "she's weird." So I guess I just feel like my dd is being snobby which I have no tolerance for.

Ok, so I have kind of a warped prism, living someone who is ASD2 who loses friends after two playdates, sigh. Seems to me this girl has *issues* and they aren't being dealt with. Your dd is saying the girl has issues (social, something) and you're saying your dd is snobby. What if your dd is *right*? What if the girl is having some issues with social skills, how she comes across, restricted interests, whatever? Does that change it? Would you tell your dd to play with the girl anyway?

I can tell you I have met ZERO parents who force their kids to play with my pain in the butt boy. Zero. So to me, if the girl has issues and the parents aren't dealing with it, it's their problem the kid has no friends. I agree pity visits do no one any good. They only delay the girl getting her issues identified and dealt with and the parents helping her to find peers with whom she better connects.

PS. I wish you lived near me and were willing to tell your dc to play with my pain in the butt dc. It is SO thoughtful and kind. I mean, I'm really with you that it's very thoughtful. I'm just saying people don't do it and as a parent of that dc I have given up expecting it. The world is harsh and people have to find friends their own way.

Edited September 8, 2020 by PeterPan

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Calizzy said:

If she felt unsafe or uncomfortable I would not force it. But when I ask why she doesn't want to play she just says "she's weird." So I guess I just feel like my dd is being snobby which I have no tolerance for. I do think that my kids and the other 3 girls are a clique and the other girl is left out when we try to have then all together. 

Can you find a way to try new things with the established group so that they are more open to additional people? Is the group cohesive around specific activities or certain personalities? I ask because groups are exclusive for a variety of reasons. Our old neighborhood had a vibe of "all we do is play sports." Of course, they were good at them. My older kid had a vision issue that we didn't know about for a long time (convergence) that put him well behind the curve for sports. Our other kid was too young to really be in the main and too easily hurt, and now we know he has a connective tissue disorder that causes heart issues, so he has activity restrictions. To some extent, being inflexible about the activities is rude. If there were a child in a wheelchair that couldn't do certain things, we'd feel some sense of obligation to be inclusive or at least feel bad if we're not. With something like, "this kid doesn't like sports or isn't good at them," we don't go farther. We don't label the kids who are obsessed with sports as not being well-rounded even though that's just as truthful as saying the kids who aren't good at them are weird.

Anyway, I don't know what the dynamic is in your situation, but I applaud you for being on guard about it and trying to change it. For my kids, what changed is that some of the kids moved, and it made sports harder. Then, if they did do something with sports, it was more like playing HORSE than actual basketball, which was better for a variety of skill levels. Also, the kids that didn't get along with others as well were the ones that left, and the bigger kids moved on when the group got too small for real baseball. The main boy who was left was actually a worry to his parents because he wasn't "focused"--he liked to do ALL kinds of activities. This ended up working very well for my boys, and since we didn't mind messes in our yard, he came over to our yard to do his messy stuff, lol! This kid was a quintessential jack of all trades, but in that family, that was considered "unhealthy." 

Anyway, I think kids sometimes need to be shown how to be inclusive and get out of a rut, but I do agree that there comes a point when things shouldn't be forced. It sounds like you still don't know enough to know if you're there yet.

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Believe me I was that other girl. 

I didn't have a friend in my street, in my school, in my town. 

Nothing dramatic about it. There are little girls that nobody wants to play with. They don't click with them, they don't fit in their social circle, they couldn't be bothered to make the little girl feel like a friend or a valued human. Those little girls get use to it. That is just  the way life is. It is a fact. 

I was sort of that other girl, but other times not. I was the "good girl" that was supposed to be able to be all things to all people. I was berated by adults for being stuck up even if my only option was to join groups of girls that were very much led by the least common maturity level. Fun times. Even now, adults can be cliquey--they want me to do everything the way they do and be stressed about the same things. It's more drama. I do have more ability as an adult to find my tribe, but it can be very frustrating. It's also clear that as a way of not overextending themselves, some people put up a "closed for business" sign to new people in their circles. Navigating that without taking it personally is a skill I've added (I think), but it's really, really frustrating when you are the new person and you don't know anyone.

In my actual neighborhood, we had the drama queen (got along with nobody, ever), the sort of drama queen (very easily threatened and would bite and hit when she didn't get her way), and the sweet girl with the really, really weird brothers who was super sensitive and fragile (I suspect her brothers had some kind of genetic disorder that nobody knew about--there were physical issues as well as their being very odd). I still played with 2 out of 3 of these girls regularly and for years and had genuine fun. After the sensitive girl moved, we wrote letters. It's not too much to ask kids to give it a try with some assistance until things click along or it's clear nothing is going to go anywhere. I definitely had times that happened too, such as with the girl adopted into a very strict fundamentalist Christian family who was kind of the village tattletale because it got attention with her new parents. Sigh. No one was ever as strict as them, so it was a lose-lose situation. (And I had family members stricter than them, but they had cultivated interests that were fun, and they weren't tattletales and disapproving of those not like them.)

[PeterPan]

11 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

This.

and also where you can see how other girl acts... what is “weird”? And is it something that should perhaps be brought to attention of her mom who could perhaps help? 

I know, lol. Can you imagine that conversation though? Does op have an observations to guide her? Awkward. Sometimes people know the kid had issues and aren't discussing it and sometimes they aren't on that train yet.

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

I know, lol. Can you imagine that conversation though? Does op have an observations to guide her? Awkward. Sometimes people know the kid had issues and aren't discussing it and sometimes they aren't on that train yet.

True, but sometimes "odd" is in the eye of the beholder and a very subjective term to avoid having to change your habits to include others. Odd to my neighbors was just "gifted generalist" behavior in our world. It's not just compared with my kids--we know other gifted generalist kids; I am well aware that my kids have their own oddities, but that was not the problem in our neighborhood--some of the other boys were just plain mean or were also odd. This boy was causing his parents' concern by being well-rounded, lol!!! 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Calizzy said:

If she felt unsafe or uncomfortable I would not force it. But when I ask why she doesn't want to play she just says "she's weird." So I guess I just feel like my dd is being snobby which I have no tolerance for. I do think that my kids and the other 3 girls are a clique and the other girl is left out when we try to have then all together. 

 

Why don’t you believe your dd when she tells you she thinks the other girl is weird? And why is it snobby to not want to play with a kid she thinks is weird? Why don’t you trust your child’s judgment? Don’t you think it’s important for your child to develop a sense of discernment, and to feel free to avoid people she thinks are weird? 

Also, would you really be doing that other child a favor by trying to force a friendship between her and your dd, who clearly doesn’t like the girl and thinks she is weird?

The other girl is probably a perfectly nice kid, but if she and your dd aren't hitting it off, what possible reason would there be to try to force a friendship between them? Why not just let the girl’s mom try to help her find a different friend — one who actually likes her and wants to spend time with her? It would seem pretty mean to force your dd to pretend to like the girl, because eventually the truth will come out, and it would be far more hurtful for the girl to find out that your dd only played with her out of pity or because you made her do it,  than if your dd never had to play with her at all.

Personally, I think it may be kinder in the long run to let the girl find a different friend.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Believe me I was that other girl. 

I didn't have a friend in my street, in my school, in my town. 

Nothing dramatic about it. There are little girls that nobody wants to play with. They don't click with them, they don't fit in their social circle, they couldn't be bothered to make the little girl feel like a friend or a valued human. Those little girls get use to it. That is just  the way life is. It is a fact. 

 

I’m very sorry you had to go through that. 😞 

As someone who has been through it, though, you may be the best person to answer...  Wouldn’t it have been worse to have a “friend” who was only pretending to like you because her mom made her play with you, than to not have had that kid as a “friend” at all?

Maybe I’m looking at this the wrong way, but it would seem so awful for that girl to think Calizzy’s dd liked her, only to discover later that Calizzy’s dd secretly thought of her as “weird” all along.

[Catwoman]

15 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Just because the girl is "awkward" or "weird" doesn't mean there's something wrong with her. I was the girl who no girls would be friends with because I was "weird"; however, boys had no trouble being friends with me. There was nothing wrong with me, I was, and am, just different. Boys seemed to be more OK with different than girls.

 

It sounds like you did okay, though, because you found friends who really liked you. Who would want a female friend who secretly thought you were weird and didn’t truly like you, right? Weren’t you better off spending your time finding real friends instead of being with a girl who was only being nice to you because her mom told her she had to be your friend?

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Maybe I’m looking at this the wrong way, but it would seem so awful for that girl to think Calizzy’s dd liked her, only to discover later that Calizzy’s dd secretly thought of her as “weird” all along.

This assumes that the OP's daughter can't learn to communicate what is "odd," learn to appreciate differences, or perhaps just try something a couple more times before writing this girl off. The OP said there is cliquey behavior going on. Many of us are encouraging her to drop it if something can't be worked out reasonably soon. No one said, "fake it until you make it" or "pretend to be friends." 

I remember quite some time ago, you were in favor of ginning up a false compliment to make someone feel better ("I like your earrings" was it, I think) when you could just be friendly or say hello, etc. No compliment necessary. And you didn't understand why that bothered anyone. You are literally championing the exact opposite perspective now. 

[Catwoman]

27 minutes ago, kbutton said:

This assumes that the OP's daughter can't learn to communicate what is "odd," learn to appreciate differences, or perhaps just try something a couple more times before writing this girl off. The OP said there is cliquey behavior going on. Many of us are encouraging her to drop it if something can't be worked out reasonably soon. No one said, "fake it until you make it" or "pretend to be friends." 

I remember quite some time ago, you were in favor of ginning up a false compliment to make someone feel better ("I like your earrings" was it, I think) when you could just be friendly or say hello, etc. No compliment necessary. And you didn't understand why that bothered anyone. You are literally championing the exact opposite perspective now. 

 

No, it’s not the opposite perspective at all. I never said the dd shouldn’t be pleasant to the other girl in passing. I would never suggest that she be mean to the girl, no matter how weird she might view the kid. 

My objection is to forcing the dd to play with the other girl. I don’t think it’s a kindness to try to force a friendship that one party clearly does not want. 

If the kids see each other as part of a larger group, that’s fine. If they become friends in a natural and unforced way, that would be great for both girls. But to force one-on-one play multiple times a week actually does mean that Calizzy’s dd will have to pretend to like the other girl, unless Calizzy is fine with her dd telling the girl what she truly thinks of her. And that’s not going to be beneficial to either girl.

Honestly, I find it very odd that you would still be annoyed that I sometimes pay a quick, inconsequential, insincere compliment to a stranger who is having a bad day, yet you seem to think it is fine for Calizzy to force her dd to have an entire insincere friendship with a neighbor girl. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Catwoman
iPad added odd punctuation!

[Melissa in Australia]

36 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I’m very sorry you had to go through that. 😞 

As someone who has been through it, though, you may be the best person to answer...  Wouldn’t it have been worse to have a “friend” who was only pretending to like you because her mom made her play with you, than to not have had that kid as a “friend” at all?

Maybe I’m looking at this the wrong way, but it would seem so awful for that girl to think Calizzy’s dd liked her, only to discover later that Calizzy’s dd secretly thought of her as “weird” all along.

I don't think that op should force her Dd to play with the little girl. I am pointing out that that is life, there are people that nobody wants to play with. And those little girls get use to it very quickly. 

There is absolutely nothing worse than have someone playing with you the have them say I am only playing with you because my mum made me, or my mum bribed me to. That is way worse than being left alone. 

 

 

[JustEm]

I would encourage you to press your dd on what she means when she says the girl is weird and help your dd figure out if there are activities that she would be willing to do with the girl that wouldn't be so unbearable to her.  If you dd is in fact being snobby (not sure what that means) you forcing her to hang out with this girl isn't going to cure her of that/  It is more likely to make her resentful and fight hanging out with her more.  But having an ongoing conversation with her about being open to looking passed her weirdness could go a long way.  However, I wouldn't just be having that conversation with your one dd, I would be encouraging all 3 of your girls to play with this girl and finding ways to include her.  At lest encourage them to try it but don't force them to

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I don't think that op should force her Dd to play with the little girl. I am pointing out that that is life, there are people that nobody wants to play with. And those little girls get use to it very quickly. 

There is absolutely nothing worse than have someone playing with you the have them say I am only playing with you because my mum made me, or my mum bribed me to. That is way worse than being left alone. 

 

 

 

I agree completely. 

And really, that other girl might be a great kid, and the only issue might be that she doesn’t share the same interests as Calizzy’s dds and their friends. 

What Calizzy views as cliquish behavior may simply be nothing more than her dds and their friends having a lot in common and the other girl not enjoying the same things. Just because kids are the same age doesn’t mean that they share the same interests or have compatible personalities.

[Calizzy]

.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Calizzy

[Pen]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I know, lol. Can you imagine that conversation though? Does op have an observations to guide her? Awkward. Sometimes people know the kid had issues and aren't discussing it and sometimes they aren't on that train yet.

 

But sometimes it can be really helpful- - like if a kid makes strange faces, or acts like a Hermione Granger know it all, sometimes they can learn to do different. 

 

[katilac]

45 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

 But why is this lesson only for a 9 year old and not her sisters ? 

This is a good point. It sounds like there are six girls of varied ages in your dd's original friend group. Why is it only her that the neighbor is requesting to play with? And why is she the only one who has to learn to be more accepting and kind? It strikes me as odd that, out of six girls, this girl and/or her mom are interested in one and one only. 

What do you mean when you say the new girl has a hard time fitting in when the group plays? If they're including her sometimes, I think that's all you can ask. She has to be patient, too, and adjust herself to the existing group dynamics to a large extent. She's not suddenly going to be as close a friend as everyone else has been, that's not realistic. Because she's been living on the street a good while but never made friends with them, that's probably a clue that they aren't terribly compatible. 

1 hour ago, Calizzy said:

We attend church and we often invite new people over for a meal or to a park. We don't always actually LIKE these people, but we are trying to be kind and hospitable, which are traits that I hope to encourage in my children. And I do think it is real world experience to learn how to appreciate and play with people who are different than you, or what you might naturally like. 

 I don't think this is particularly kind, though. If you don't know them, of course welcome them and talk to them, maybe set up an open park day where they can meet other families and the kids can play. Get to know them a bit, give friendship with them a chance. But if you already don't like them, I don't see why you would invite them over for a meal. That makes for a long evening for everyone involved, lol. And I don't think it's much different for adults than kids: if I found out that someone invited me over when they didn't actually like me, I'd be mortified. And probably pretty mad as well, to tell the truth.  

Yes, you have to be able to interact with people who are different and people you don't like. That doesn't mean you have to socialize with them. 

[Carrie12345]

So, my position is that there’s really just not enough known about this other little girl.

As a parent, I have not/do not “make” my kids play with other kids, sometimes with exceptions for group gatherings so there’s no overt exclusion of kids who aren’t actively being mean. (I have removed my kids from being hit by sticks.)  I am an ASD parent, so I do try to be sensitive when it comes to awkward kids, but some other kids ARE just mean/bad influences/not ready for healthy interaction. And there are yet others that just don’t click. And I do think my kids have followed my cues well. They tend to take the awkward and unfairly excluded under their wings and remove themselves from the mean/snobby/negative influence kids. They seem to be taking that into their adult lives, which is exactly what I wanted.

If you have the opportunity to observe the kids playing together, take it, or make it, and then figure out what social standards you want reinforced for your kids based on the reality of the situation.

P.S. All the teen girls on our street follow each other on social media these days, but they no longer get together. They just don’t happen to click that way.

[RootAnn]

As someone with kids who have been on both sides of this, I vote no on forcing any of my kids to play. Your 9 yr old has tried & it didn't work out. You can try another DD, but I would not force this one again.

I do ask my kids to play with (in a socially distanced way) the young girls next door when possible but that is more like babysitting because of the age difference. (My youngest is approx 5 yrs older than their oldest.) But I do not force mine to play with the grandchild up the street that is approximately the same age as my youngest even though her grandmother wants my kids to show her good examples. Granddaughter acts rude, condescending, and bossy to my kids. I will not require or request my children to put up with that attitude so my kids can be salt & light. Nope.

I've previously made that decision & regret it. My kids who are the weird one would tell you they'd rather be miserable & lonely than be played with under duress.

[PeterPan]

Why is the neglected girl not coming out to join the larger group? I agree there's something odd about saying the dd has to *leave* her friend group to play with the other girl. I'm all over INCLUSION. If the dd plus the 3 neighbors need some tips to try to be INCLUSIVE, that would be awesome. But if the neighbor won't come out and join the group, that's not your deal. 

I must be missing something. Logistics or something.

And I'm with @Dreamergal that sometimes the person we're trying to set up isn't the right friend for the person. I had that with dd, where one girl would come over and a younger sibling was more than one who wanted to hang with dd. So getting the lonely person into a group where they can figure out who they click with or have the opportunity to feel included and develop their skills could be better, rather than forcing it on an individual level.

[MEmama]

I've been both the loner girl and the daughter no one listened to or respected. Believe me, having a mother who doesn’t have your back does way more damage. 

[JustEm]

My biggest concern in the matter is that you are only requiring one of your girls to hang out with her.  What are the other sisters doing during this time? Are they playing with the other neighbor kids?  if so, I would completely understand why your dd wouldn't want to hang with the solo neighbor girl instead of her friends in the neighborhood. If they aren't, then what is stopping you from having all 3 of your girls play with her? 

I understand the solo girl has a hard time fitting in the with the big neighborhood group playing but that is something she needs to work on.  You could help her by having her get to know all of your dd's since that is a large percentage of the whole neighborhood group.  So, even if she wants to just play with one of your dd's meet her in the middle and arrange things for things that aren't the huge kid group but just your 3 girls.  

[Ausmumof3]

I missed the OP but I think usually with these situations forcing doesn’t help but sometimes parent mediated group activities that get everyone together sometimes can.  Like a movie day, baking day or something.  Or sports etc.  however that depends if you have the time and energy to do it and whether the other parents would go along or not.

and yes I too have been on all sides of the issue, the weird kid no one wants to play with, the kid who doesn’t want to play with another kid for various reasons, and the parent whose tried to force interaction unsuccessfully.  The only thing that ever has remotely worked is activities that take the social/hangout aspect away and replace with a situation where the focus is more on the activity than the socialising.

[marbel]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

I've been both the loner girl and the daughter no one listened to or respected. Believe me, having a mother who doesn’t have your back does way more damage. 

I know the OP is done with this thread but this stuck out to me.  I have been the loner, and so has my daughter, even moreso than I.  We moved when she was 8, from a semi-rural place where she had lots of friends and friendly acquaintances, to a "regular" suburban neighborhood where we knew no one. We tried several times to connect with the girls her age, but it never clicked. She wasn't weird, and they weren't weird, they were all just different. It still saddens me sometimes that she could not make friends with 2 girls whose homes we can see from our front  yard, and several others just around the corner. But she managed and has found her own friends over time... one in her high school years, and several now that she is in college. 

I think that good that that came out of our loner years was the ability to do things on our own. I used to travel, hike, go to movies, all kinds of things alone. I know people who wouldn't dream of doing anything alone, because they never had to  learn how to. 

 

[Farrar]

I was thinking about this post and how most people are saying to either not force it or to try and gently get to the issue. That's because we have the original perspective of the kid who doesn't want to play with another kid and is pushing back a bit.

If this post was the other mom, I can almost guarantee that everyone would talk about how cruel the other family was to support their dd's exclusionary attitudes. And lots of people would chime in about how they were excluded and bullied.

I don't bring this up to make it seem like the OP's dd is doing anything wrong. From everything we know, she's been perfectly polite, just not enjoyed her time with this other girl. But just that so much of this is in the perspective. I don't think we do our kids any favors when we force them to pretend like everyone is and can be friends. We hear a lot about exclusion being a form of bullying (and it can be) but I personally have seen it turn into bullying more often when kids are forced together. I think it sets a kid up to become a bully if they have expressed they don't want to play with another kid and they're consistently forced to. They feel unheard and angry and take it out on a kid who they would have been totally happy to live and let live - they just didn't want to play with.

[Farrar]

5 minutes ago, Bagels McGruffikin said:

I was thinking along these lines as well. I’m generally in favor of children trying hard to play together, but sometimes people just don’t mesh. If attempts have been made and the children still aren’t clicking I think it probably does more harm than good to force the issue unless it is a large group of children. One on one, though, I’m more in the camp of respecting the child’s no if they’ve given it a good shot.

To me, this is why we do group things. In scouts and school and church groups and so forth, everyone has to be included. Adults are there to make you practice that and preach why it's important to learn as a skill and how to be kind and inclusive in a group. But on your own time, that's your own time. Kids deserve that time and some level of control over who they play with and how they play. 

[RootAnn]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

But just that so much of this is in the perspective. I don't think we do our kids any favors when we force them to pretend like everyone is and can be friends. We hear a lot about exclusion being a form of bullying (and it can be) but I personally have seen it turn into bullying more often when kids are forced together. I think it sets a kid up to become a bully if they have expressed they don't want to play with another kid and they're consistently forced to. They feel unheard and angry and take it out on a kid who they would have been totally happy to live and let live - they just didn't want to play with.

Yes. I agree with this. Even if the kid being forced to play is very nice, I can see where resentment towards the mom would cause issues.

[kbutton]

22 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

No, it’s not the opposite perspective at all. I never said the dd shouldn’t be pleasant to the other girl in passing. I would never suggest that she be mean to the girl, no matter how weird she might view the kid. 

My objection is to forcing the dd to play with the other girl. I don’t think it’s a kindness to try to force a friendship that one party clearly does not want. 

If the kids see each other as part of a larger group, that’s fine. If they become friends in a natural and unforced way, that would be great for both girls. But to force one-on-one play multiple times a week actually does mean that Calizzy’s dd will have to pretend to like the other girl, unless Calizzy is fine with her dd telling the girl what she truly thinks of her. And that’s not going to be beneficial to either girl.

Honestly, I find it very odd that you would still be annoyed that I sometimes pay a quick, inconsequential, insincere compliment to a stranger who is having a bad day, yet you seem to think it is fine for Calizzy to force her dd to have an entire insincere friendship with a neighbor girl. 

I feel like both scenarios you are advocating are forced. Both the idea that someone HAS to pay someone a compliment, so it's okay to sincerely say something you don't mean and the idea that any kind of playdate to see if a friendship could develop means that it has to be long-term and based on a insincerity. 

I feel like your forcing a dichotomy in both cases that doesn't have to exist. Could it exist? Sure. Most people on here have warned about going too far either direction. 

The OP expressed concern about cliques. Many people have assumed that her daughter's take that the other girl is weird is the gospel truth vs. an impression that might be spot on or might just be influenced by the cliquish behavior. Others of us suggest trying out a relationship carefully.

It really doesn't have to be false. Plenty of people don't like someone or something at first, and then they are so happy they persisted. 

[katilac]

20 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Others of us suggest trying out a relationship carefully.

It really doesn't have to be false. Plenty of people don't like someone or something at first, and then they are so happy they persisted. 

But they have tried it out, right? The neighbor has played with the group, and not clicked or not liked it for whatever reason. Then at least a few one-on-one play dates with the daughter in question. When do you call time? At this point, I think they need to work it out themselves.