wuhan - coronavirus

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://theconversation.com/amp/coronavirus-how-accurate-are-coronavirus-tests-135972?__twitter_impression=true
 

Article on testing reliability issues 

Whoa — 30% of those with CV-19 confirmed by CT originally had false negatives on the test. 😲  Here is the paper that was linked/referred to in that article.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/19/us/coronavirus-antibody-tests.html#click=https://t.co/ZymVkFO0tz
 

more on issues with antibody testing.

i think it raises a valid point.  There’s been a lot of criticism of the lack of available testing.  The solution has been to open the floodgates a bit in terms of whose allowed to produce and use tests:  this seems like a good thing but may not be if it falsely assures people that they are immune to the virus when they actually aren’t.

“When the proportion of people exposed is that low, the tests’ false positive rate — signaling antibodies where there are none — can limit the tests’ utility.

Even Cellex’s F.D.A.-authorized test has a false positive rate of about 5 percent. That is still a significant margin of error: In a community where 5 percent of people have had the virus, Dr. Osterholm said, there would be as many false positives as true ones.“

@square_25

I think this is along the lines of what you were saying?

[Pen]

Oddlythough, I heard the press briefing and don’t recall part about nursing homes reporting cases. But I think I fell asleep in part of it. 

Sometimes though I carefully listen and watch something and find the report of it in news isn’t at all what I heard myself. Not even if I go over the original again trying to find what the news is reporting. 

 

[Arcadia]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

Not sure if already posted:

“Nursing homes will now be required to report all coronavirus cases to patients, families of patients and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, officials announced at Sunday’s White House coronavirus task force briefing.

“It’s important that patients and their families have the information that they need,” said Seema Verma, the administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. “And they need to understand what’s going on in the nursing home.”

Washington Post  

 

55 minutes ago, Pen said:

Oddlythough, I heard the press briefing and don’t recall part about nursing homes reporting cases. But I think I fell asleep in part of it. 

Sometimes though I carefully listen and watch something and find the report of it in news isn’t at all what I heard myself. Not even if I go over the original again trying to find what the news is reporting. 

 

link https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-releases/trump-administration-announces-new-nursing-homes-covid-19-transparency-effort

[Arcadia]

😀Pennsylvania https://abc7news.com/6115889/
“MARCUS HOOK, Pennsylvania -- Nearly a month after clocking in, employees at a company in Pennsylvania were finally able to go home.

More than 40 workers unanimously deciding to leave their families, agreeing to eat, sleep, and live at the facility where they make equipment for health care workers.

The team worked 12-hour shifts. TV and the occasional drive-by from family members were only outside contact they've had.

"There's been a glow in everyone's eyes, I'll say," said operations shift supervisor at Braskem America Joe Boyce.

Boyce said group was split among two shifts to make polypropylene, a non-woven fiber used to make N95 masks, hospital gowns, and sanitary wipes.

"We're truly honored to be able to give back and support people we will never meet in some way," he said.

...

But, it's a small price to pay knowing that work they've all put forth is making a difference in the battle against COVID-19.

"All the first responders, all the people on the frontlines, we thank you. That's what makes our job easy to do," Boyce said.

The group gets a week off before returning to a normal workweek.

Braskem is rewarding these employees with an increase in wages.”

[Spryte]

7 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

link https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-releases/trump-administration-announces-new-nursing-homes-covid-19-transparency-effort

Thanks for the link.  
 

We did finally get some info from nursing home.

My FIL in nursing care, called today to let us know about his roommate.  Roomie has been sent to quarantine, and is being tested.  FIL must keep his door closed, and staff wears full PPE when interacting with him.  A nurse called to inform us.  Quarantine is on first floor, no diagnosed cases at this time.
 

FIL is not too worried, as roomie always has a cough.  Hopefully it’s his usual cough.

[Melissa in Australia]

N Z is going to move from level 4 to level 3 restrictions https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/coronavirus-australia-live-updates-covid19-latest-news/12163098

What does the NZ move from Level 4 to Level 3 mean?

      

Ms Ardern is outlining what will be changed once New Zealand moves down one rung on the restriction ladder:

 

• If people are not at work, school, exercising or getting essentials, they must be at home (the same as alert level four)
• People must continue to work and learn from home if they can
• Early learning centres and schools will physically be open up to Year 10
• Industries like construction, manufacturing, forestry and retail will be allowed to open as long as they are 'COVID safe'
• Parks and beaches are open to exercise but people are encouraged to 'stay local' and keep 2m away from one another
• People can expand their bubble of social contacts to include close family, isolated people, or caregivers

[SoCal_Bear]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Is Belgium testing less than other countries?  The deaths over/confirmed cases is currently highest in the world there.

Belgium has the highest death rate per capita in the world.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

[CAJinBE]

This is from The Bulletin (an English news site in Belgium). 

Last update: Sunday 19 April. All updates from the past 24 hours are in bold

What's the latest?

Over the past 24 hours

• Newly confirmed cases: 1,313
• Hospitalised: 265
• Left hospital: 489
• Deaths: 230 (76 in hospital, 154 in care homes)

Totals since outbreak began

• Known cases: 38,496
• In hospital: 4,871 (-198)
• in intensive care: 1,081 (-38)
• on a ventilator: 809 (-37)
• Recoveries: 8,837 (+489)
• Deaths: 5,683

Belgium's coronavirus measures - including the closure of shops and schools and a requirement to stay at home - have been extended until at least 3 May. Big public events, such as festivals, are cancelled this summer until 31 August. Brussels' Ommegang parade (1-4 July) is among the cancelled events. Costume makers in the workshops will instead spend their time making masks for frontline workers. Tickets already purchased for the 2020 event will remain valid next year. The Meyboom, on 9 August, will go ahead but in a different form, according to Brussels mayor Philippe Close. It'll be the 712th edition of the Unesco-recognised folkloric event, which has not missed a single year through invasions and occupations.

[Ausmumof3]

39 minutes ago, calbear said:

Belgium has the highest death rate per capita in the world.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

 

40 minutes ago, calbear said:

Belgium has the highest death rate per capita in the world.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

I wonder why?  Poor people 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, square_25 said:

Lovely article, thank you. 

"To which I say, Yes! Great! What about them indeed! Put on your best-tailored thinking cap and go find out. Marinate in all the data you can find. Watch out for claims that seem sciencey but trace back to a 4chan post. Be mindful of the universal human tendency to filter out things we disagree with and embrace any evidence that we like. Dig in, first and foremost, with the goal of proving yourself wrong. If you can’t, then perhaps there’s something there."

I think that's an excellent way to try to live one's life :-). We all experience confirmation bias. The only thing to do is to be aware of it and to try to counterbalance it :-). 

I agree but I don’t think most people have the time or mental energy 

[Ausmumof3]

No new cases for SA again and almost 6000 tests since Thursday under the expanded criteria.  We are bringing some Australians home from India though they will be quarantine so I guess there’s some slight risk there but it seems like they are being incredibly careful.  WA and QLD also had no new cases in 24 hours and NSW has declining numbers of new cases.

[lewelma]

I'm hearing chattering here in the news that if Australia, NZ and Singapore can bring things under control, that they may resume flights between those three countries.  

8 cases for us today, all in known clusters.  1000 random community tests in 'hot spot' areas with 0 positives. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by lewelma

[Melissa in Australia]

Just now, lewelma said:

I'm hearing chattering here in the news that if Australia, NZ and Singapore can bring things under control, that they may resume flights between those three countries.  

I have hears some of this chatter as well. I heard that Australia was less interested than NZ in resuming international travel between the two countries atm.

[lewelma]

Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

I have hears some of this chatter as well. I heard that Australia was less interested than NZ in resuming international travel between the two countries atm.

haha. I believe it. Australia has less to gain. 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

I wonder why?  Poor people 

 

Belgium is also recording suspected COVID-19 deaths as COVID, unlike other countries that are only recording confirmed COVID-19 deaths. 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-is-belgium-a-europe-hotspot-for-covid-19-deaths-11975017

[lewelma]

2 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

Belgium is also recording suspected COVID-19 deaths as COVID, unlike other countries that are only recording confirmed COVID-19 deaths. 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-why-is-belgium-a-europe-hotspot-for-covid-19-deaths-11975017

NZ is doing autopsies on anyone who might have died of covid.  1 of our 12 deaths was identified after death.  And 3 of out 12 deaths were in people who were already in hospice and they were still listed as covid deaths. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

I'm hearing chattering here in the news that if Australia, NZ and Singapore can bring things under control, that they may resume flights between those three countries.  

8 cases for us today, all in known clusters.  1000 random community tests in 'hot spot' areas with 0 positives. 

Singapore have increasing cases in recent days. Guy D.H. used to work with says they have a lot of construction workers that are foreign labour and it’s a big problem for them.

[RootAnn]

So, someone posted a few pages ago that UWash is going start using their own antibody test. I was exited about this because UWash has been a leader in SARS-CoV-2 testing. I found the press conference (linked in the Twitter message that was posted here) and I realized I read their Twitter post wrong. They are starting to offer the antibody testing, but it isn't their test. They are using Abbott Labs' test which they helped to validate. 

Based on UW's testing, there were no false positives (100% sensitivity) & very, very few false negatives (99.6% specificity). They checked other older coronavirus samples with the new antibody test & found no cross-reactivity with those samples. They can test 4,000/day now and hope to ramp up to 14,000 tests/day in a couple of weeks in just their lab.

Your physician will have to order the test. They said a clinic within a workplace might be able to order it, too. @Jean in Newcastle maybe asked about availability?

This test is not good for someone who is currently symptomatic.

Quote

The UW Medicine Virology lab is receiving shipments of the Abbott laboratory–based antibody blood test for clinical use. Antibody blood tests are important to check people for past infection with the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, the cause of COVID-19. This particular test looks for the IgG antibody.

Edited April 20, 2020 by RootAnn

[TravelingChris]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:27 AM, RootAnn said:

I'm pretty sure the antibody is SARS-CoV2 specific or at least attempts to be. https://www.medicinenet.com/how_do_the_covid-19_coronavirus_tests_work/article.htm#what_are_immunoglobulin_detection-based_tests_for_covid-19_coronavirus

Again, poor wording.  IgG nd Igm are not specific enough wording.  I assume they mean something like IgG for COVID19 but they do not explain.  It will lead to people looking through their medical records, finding they have higher IgG and deciding they had Wuhan virus in 2011.

[TravelingChris]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:52 AM, maize said:

They were testing covid-19 specific IgG and IgM. 

While it is true that we all have a variety of antibodies in our blood, they are always specific to some antigen--that's in the basic definition of an antibody. These tests aren't just looking for any and all antibodies--they're looking for covid-19 specific antibodies. Just as, when pregnant women are tested for rubella antibodies, that test only measures rubella virus specific IgG; it's not going to come back positive because I happen to have influenza-specific IgG circulating.

Yes, of course but I am complaining about poor science writing.  Poor science writing leads to confusion (not really by me) but by less educated people about these subjects.  Then they look at Granny's med recent med record and see that her IgG was high last March and this leads to conspiracy theories.  

[mommyoffive]

On 4/18/2020 at 10:54 AM, Pen said:

 

Even if we lived in an era when testing weren’t possible at all, if we kept the most likely things to cause lots of (especially asymptomatic) spread shut  yet longer still (such as schools, cruise ships, packed audiences, choirs ...) the ones where they cannot be totally shut as restricted as possible preferably even more restrictive than now (such as nursing homes), and if we used as much of physical hygiene, physical distance, physical barriers (masks, face shields, gloves, nowadays plexiglass etc ...), PPE for people in vulnerable jobs, it would help a great deal.  

Also if there were a potential   ...   interruption and don’t recall my thoughts now...

Because spread from fecal matter is possible, I think some system of, perhaps self cleaning and self closing, public toilet lidding needs to be figured out as well. Or maybe it could be simpler than a self cleaning and self lowering lid.  Something so that they don’t get flushed and send droplet spume everywhere.  

It would use up a lot of paper, but a seat protector like sheet of over top of bowl before flushing might help — though they don’t stay in place well, and person flushing would have to push it down into bowl before leaving 

Aerosolized or spume of fecal matter seems to be a problem area for CV19 transmission somewhat like contaminated water is a problem for cholera.  

It’s my new area for writing letters to whatever I can think of may be useful entities for that. 

 

 

This does freak me out.  Most public toilets do no have lids.  I never understood that.  Hasn't it has been known for awhile that fecal matter spreads when you flush?  

[8filltheheart]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Singapore have increasing cases in recent days. Guy D.H. used to work with says they have a lot of construction workers that are foreign labour and it’s a big problem for them.

There was an article talking about this last week.

Quote

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-16/singapore-reports-record-728-new-covid-19-cases-none-imported

Of those affected by Covid-19 so far, six in 10 lived in dorms, the data showed. That ratio is expected to change quickly, with these tightly packed living facilities housing thousands of foreign workers becoming Singapore’s latest challenge in its fight to contain the spread.

I have no idea how this situations relates directly to college dorm living in general, but it gave me pause when I read the article (and others associated with it) bc I think college dorms are nasty breeding grounds for illnesses in general.  

[Acadie]

25 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

 

This does freak me out.  Most public toilets do no have lids.  I never understood that.  Hasn't it has been known for awhile that fecal matter spreads when you flush?  

 

The way many public toilets flush so powerfully that they spray everywhere has always been a huge pet peeve of mine. And with automated flushing you often can't even flush and step out of the way. It's just so disgusting and dangerous when a public toilet flushes and sprays droplets on you, while you're using it.

Who knows when I'll be traveling again--just sitting in my living room thinking about this completely squicks me out!

Edited April 20, 2020 by Acadie

[Jean in Newcastle]

I hope that it’s ok to ask this on this thread:  IF there are viral outbreaks from the protests happening, what would the time frame be?  Two weeks from the protest?  (This question is prompted by those where there was no social distancing- not the ones with a parade of cars. 
 

Related question: do we know yet if there was a viral surge in Wisconsin tied to the primary?  

[Garga]

8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I agree but I don’t think most people have the time or mental energy 

True...but maybe it will encourage people to say, “I don’t have the time to research this, so I won’t just blindly believe it.”

Edited April 20, 2020 by Garga

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Singapore have increasing cases in recent days. Guy D.H. used to work with says they have a lot of construction workers that are foreign labour and it’s a big problem for them.

They are mainly testing foreign workers now and there is a backlog of testing to do.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-1426-foreign-workers-dormitory-citizen-pr-moh-12658250
“SINGAPORE: Singapore reported a daily high of 1,426 new COVID-19 cases on Monday (Apr 20), bringing the national total to 8,014.”

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/manpower/180k-foreign-workers-dependants-to-stay-home-from-today
“Around 180,000 foreign workers in the construction industry and their dependants will be on stay-home notices starting today, as the number of coronavirus infections continues to rise.

The notices apply mostly to work permit and S Pass holders currently not staying in dormitories, as well as their dependants.

The figure, given by the Manpower Ministry yesterday in response to queries from The Straits Times, comes after Saturday's announcement that all work permit and S Pass holders in the construction industry will undergo a mandatory 14-day stay-home notice from today to May 4.”

[Pen]

41 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

 

This does freak me out.  Most public toilets do no have lids.  I never understood that.  Hasn't it has been known for awhile that fecal matter spreads when you flush?  

 

Yes.  

But lowering and raising lids is also a problem.  

Especially since many people don’t wash hands well if at all.  

[Pen]

18 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I hope that it’s ok to ask this on this thread:  IF there are viral outbreaks from the protests happening, what would the time frame be?  Two weeks from the protest?  (This question is prompted by those where there was no social distancing- not the ones with a parade of cars. 
 

Related question: do we know yet if there was a viral surge in Wisconsin tied to the primary?  

 

I think surges following events political or not take 3 to 5 weeks to become obvious to the general public: 

Mardi Gras February 25

2 weeks  March 11        43 cases        

3 weeks  March 18       575 cases

4 weeks  March 25       11,451 cases

5 weeks  April 1             45,776 cases

 

 

https://covidtracking.com/data/state/louisiana#historical

[mommyoffive]

30 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I hope that it’s ok to ask this on this thread:  IF there are viral outbreaks from the protests happening, what would the time frame be?  Two weeks from the protest?  (This question is prompted by those where there was no social distancing- not the ones with a parade of cars. 
 

Related question: do we know yet if there was a viral surge in Wisconsin tied to the primary?  

 

Doesn't seem to be a surge yet.  

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/health/2020/04/19/coronavirus-wisconsin-cases-up-over-140-surpassing-4-300-sunday/5161979002/

But there are different dates on when the peak is or did happen.  This one said it already did

https://www.tmj4.com/news/coronavirus/wisconsin-has-already-passed-the-covid-19-peak-study-suggests

But I have also seen a lot anywhere from April 26-May 26.  It is all over the place. 

[mommyoffive]

18 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Yes.  

But lowering and raising lids is also a problem.  

Especially since many people don’t wash hands well if at all.  

 

Maybe it would make people wash their hands more because they feel like they actually touched the toilet?  But also you can do it with your foot. 

[mommyoffive]

11 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I think surges following events political or not take 3 to 5 weeks to become obvious to the general public: 

Mardi Gras February 25

2 weeks  March 11        43 cases        

3 weeks  March 18       575 cases

4 weeks  March 25       11,451 cases

5 weeks  April 1             45,776 cases

 

 

https://covidtracking.com/data/state/louisiana#historical

 

Hopefully WI will not see that same surge.   At the time of Mardi Gras masks and social distancing was not in effect.  Plus the environments are a bit different.   I am totally not saying that having in person voting at that time was the right call.  It 100% was not. 

[TravelingChris]

On 4/18/2020 at 11:53 AM, Pen said:

 

👍

and to get non employees like nursing home residents’ levels up too!!!

Preferably to a good level IMO, not just barely better than deficiency level. 

😊 I was an early Vitamin D proponent on this big thread! I think when I saw you took that on,  I relaxed about rementioning it every so often for newcomers.   It is also probably a great idea to put in on other threads where people who don’t read or have not noticed it on big thread would see it! 😊

To the extent it would help reduce incidence or severity of illness it is extremely inexpensive compared to hospitalization etc.  

And there are a lot of sheep out there who probably aren’t having their D3 rich lanolin oils gathered and D3 extracted as their wool gets sheared at this time of year.  And it should be done so we don’t get low on D3! (Time for More letters maybe!)  

Plus D3 can help with immunity in general, and even mood.  

Unless someone has a specific reason not to use it, it seems like a clear thing to do. 

 

 

So we are normally getting Vitamin D from sheep?????  DD2 and I are quite allergic to lanolin but take vitamin D without issues. So is it just some brands or all Vitamin D?  Dh, DD, and I are all getting prescription Vit D gel capsules- DH daily and DD and I get weekly.

[mommyoffive]

Just now, Florimell said:

Most people who went out to vote were pretty careful and procedures were in place to insure as little contact as possible. That said, and although it is too early to have been from voting, there has been a spike in cases in Brown County (Green Bay) that went from 77 on the 13th to 215 on the 19th with limited testing, and they are being cagey and secretive about the source of the outbreak.

 

Yep, I read that too.    Not good. 

[TravelingChris]

On 4/18/2020 at 3:10 PM, Pen said:

@Matryoshka

Skin color matters in ability to convert cholesterol to D even if there is enough sun.  Darker has harder time than fair. 

And possibly People trying to eat low cholesterol affects vitamin D status too. 

And genetics does too-  my very fair dh and dd2  have a genetic thing where they do not efficiently convert Vit D from the sun or maybe also from food. I know they both have Gilbert;s syndrome and vit d deficiency seems to be highest in those with high bilirubin levels (which is what Gilbert;s syndrome does) but cause and effect are difficult to figure out.

[Pen]

16 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

So we are normally getting Vitamin D from sheep?????  DD2 and I are quite allergic to lanolin but take vitamin D without issues. So is it just some brands or all Vitamin D?  Dh, DD, and I are all getting prescription Vit D gel capsules- DH daily and DD and I get weekly.

 

D3 most often comes from sheep IME, second most often from fish.  (Maybe there is regional difference in availability or cost for the types.) 

D2 is lab synthesized afaik and is often what is in prescription type D.

 I think D3 is generally better, but obviously not if you are allergic. My son is allergic to wool, but seems not to be bothered by sheep derived D3–There’s probably not much sheep left after extraction of D3 for the oil in the capsules. 

[Pen]

@TravelingChris if your Rx Vitamin D says ergocalciferol then it is D2 — I would think it would say, or at least pharmacy would know

[Pen]

25 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

And genetics does too-  my very fair dh and dd2  have a genetic thing where they do not efficiently convert Vit D from the sun or maybe also from food. I know they both have Gilbert;s syndrome and vit d deficiency seems to be highest in those with high bilirubin levels (which is what Gilbert;s syndrome does) but cause and effect are difficult to figure out.

 

Thank you! I think I need to look into this possibility in our family!!!  There’s been unexplained elevated bilirubin which may have been dismissed as Gilbert’s and “nothing to worry about”.   Well, it was dismissed as nothing to worry about for sure, but can’t recall if “Gilbert’s” was referred to.  

[bolt.]

9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

I wonder why?  Poor people 

This article (out of Belgium) indicates that they believe the reporting methods for probable cause of death are more thorough and inclusive than comparable statistics coming out of other countries. it says that while, on the one hand they feel confident about the reporting methods "Those suspected cases are very probable cases, and are registered by a doctor." -- on the other hand aknowledging that this method can result in numbers that might be "sometimes overestimated".

https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/belgium-all-news/107216/coronavirus-how-did-belgium-get-the-highest-mortality-rate/

[Sneezyone]

44 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Thoughtful and well evidenced retrospective on the vent situation of the past month and the federal allocation issues.  There was a lot of misrepresenting and politicizing of this at the time, so it’s good to see a roundup and assessment down the road. Opinion piece, but an even handed one.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-ventilators-trump-administration-handled-potential-shortage-deftly/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

A) Rich Lowery is not a reliable narrator and this is not a news piece. He's an opinion writer.

B) Jared/Ivanka Kushner have not been appointed or confirmed to any position of authority over this nation and have ZERO expertise only genetics and a marriage certificate.

C) Patting themselves on the back for not sending ventilators that were only NOT needed because of the extreme social distancing measures being taken is...something. I cannot print my words for that. Those doomsday scenarios were only narrowly averted in some places and not at all (or its too early to tell) in others.

D) This 'piece' is long on opinions and short on facts. There are zero facts other than the number of vents he says were sent out (and those are mere round estimates). That's it. 

We've had 40,000+ deaths in less than 8 weeks. This is not a success story.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

17 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

It gave the quotes, timeline, and the current situation.  Your bias is showing in how you interpreted that.  It is an opinion piece but from a mag that isn’t particularly pro-Trump even though it is right leaning, and the author is much the same.  
 

The current situation is much improved on vent needs and response, that absolutely is a success and has somewhat disappeared from the headlines, unfortunately, after the initial reports and freakout.  This is a good followup.  If you don’t think so that’s your opinion and you have a right to it, but the piece stands - an assessment of the initial response from the media and government on the ventilator situation, the federal response, and how it is being negotiated with states to fill the need with both the supplies we have have currently and the supplies that are being built, in a responsive fashion. It’s good news there.

 

My bias for FACTS, and not opinion and spin, is possibly showing, yes.

Rich Lowery is NOT a newsman. FACT. He writes opinion pieces.

The current situation is stabilized in SOME places and rising in others because social distancing (to the extent its been practiced religiously) is working.

The initial response, ongoing today, is still lacking because front line workers STILL need necessary testing equipment and PPE. This is not a success story. Sorry.

All of these people clamoring to reopen the government have the lack of adequate testing supplies and tracing capacity (this is FOUR MONTHS IN) to thank for the inability to do so.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd

Facebook https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-releases-county-county-maps-covid-19-symptoms-n1187506

“Facebook released its first county-by-county maps of the U.S. on Monday showing the prevalence of self-reported COVID-19 symptoms based on data it has collected.

The maps, which will be updated daily, are meant to help health officials allocate resources and decide where parts of society can be reopened.

They use information from a voluntary survey Facebook has been prompting users to take. The survey, operated by the Carnegie Mellon University Delphi Research Center, is designed to help health researchers identify COVID-19 hot spots earlier.

...

The data doesn't include individual people's specific movements, and the survey, which is used to generate the maps, is something people must opt in to. Facebook plans to start offering the surveys internationally and will be releasing reports on the global prevalence of the disease.

"I think providing aggregate data to governments and health officials is one of the most important tools tech companies can provide," Zuckerberg said.

...

Privacy advocates have warned that such efforts must not be taken lightly.

The announcement comes after the White House and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention asked tech companies like Facebook, Google and Apple for greater access to Americans' location datain March to fight the spread of coronavirus.

Officials hoped to use the anonymous, aggregated data to track the virus' spread, a system called syndromic surveillance.

...

Facebook revealed three new tools in early April: co-location maps, which show the chances that people in one area will come into contact with people in another; movement range trends, which show regionally whether people are staying near their homes or visiting lots of parts of town; and a social connectedness index, which shows friendships across states and countries.”

 

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, Plum said:

If the options are letting them collect dust in a national stockpile, continue to use FEMA to distribute vents, hospitals loaning their own vents out, or the feds contracting it out to local vent companies to manage excess stock and distribute on as needed basis, I'd pick the latter. Hospitals don't pay for vents outright. They depreciate them. It gets complicated loaning them out, losing them when they are still on the books. I'm not saying it isn't doable, it is just not something I think hospitals would be willing to do over the long term, which it's sounding like this will be. Vent rental companies already have the infrastructure in place to maintain and distribute. Yes, they would probably need a larger warehouse and more workers. That's not a bad thing. 

Sooo...vent rental companies have more storage space than the feds?

[Frances]

44 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

It gave the quotes, timeline, and the current situation.  Your bias is showing in how you interpreted that.  It is an opinion piece but from a mag that isn’t particularly pro-Trump even though it is right leaning, and the author is much the same.  
 

The current situation is much improved on vent needs and response, that absolutely is a success and has somewhat disappeared from the headlines, unfortunately, after the initial reports and freakout.  This is a good followup.  If you don’t think so that’s your opinion and you have a right to it, but the piece stands - an assessment of the initial response from the media and government on the ventilator situation, the federal response, and how it is being negotiated with states to fill the need with both the supplies we have have currently and the supplies that are being built, in a responsive fashion. It’s good news there.

I think one significant thing missing from the discussion in the opinion piece is the progress made in treatments and realization among doctors that many things should be tried before using a vent. When the vent emergency first started, the estimates were based on not having major social distancing and using them much more frequently than doctors are now doing. The lower need for vents is a combination of social distancing and growing knowledge about the best treatment practices.

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Plum said:

If spread out locally. 🤷‍♀️ How many does each county need to stockpile? If it's a national vent rental company, they could reallocate assets. We will have an overage of vents at the end of this, maybe even in the middle if we get some prophylactic measures in place to prevent patients from ever needing a vent. I'm not super attached to this idea. I'm just spit-balling what I think might be a quicker and easier response than relying on the federal government. 

How is private storage better than public storage aside from higher costs and no accountability? Ask a SM how privatized housing is working out. There’s been zero accountability and the federal treasury was robbed. The purpose of the PUBLIC stockpile is to hold on to and maintain the supplies that are inefficiently stored/held by the private sector.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Pawz4me]

57 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

Vents for home use, and vents for hospital use are two different things.  Yes, a home vent is a better option than some of the things being floated, like repurposed breast pumps, but they still don't have the same breadth of settings, or other features that a hospital vent has.  

 

I  believe this is true. I believe most vents used in hospitals have more capabiliy than the ones used in all but the highest level skilled nursing facilities, too.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Plum said:

Well dh worked for a vent rental company at one point. This isn't a new service. It's under the same maintenance requirements that hospitals have otherwise, hospitals wouldn't accept them into the building. Established costs for service and maintenance are already in place. Hospitals already have contracts with vent rental companies. 

Except the public stockpile wasn't maintained. They were supposedly maintained and then they contracted it out to someone else where it sat in dispute so nothing got done.That's why over 150 vents didn't work when they were delivered to CA. And that's why they had to find a company that services outdated medical devices and could figure out how they worked so they could fix them. I don't know the specific age of the vents that were delivered, but that right there tells me they were over 10 years old. Medical equipment reaches end of life at 10 years. No one is going to be able to find parts to maintain them if there is a pandemic after that point. Manufacturers will not help you fix it. Regulations and all. At least this way, the vents are in rotation and regularly maintained. Service contracts are common and supposedly already in place for the national stockpile. If that is how all of these brand spanking new vents are going to be treated, then maybe working out a national service agreement would ensure everyone has access to a well-maintained vent. 

Aaaand who was responsible for the maintenance of the public stockpile lo these many years?? PUBLIC resources and services are only as good as the people who run them and CARE to run them well, this is true. Most times tho, PUBLIC services are outsourced to the very companies you describe with the profits being private and the losses being public with no accountability available for taxpayers in the form of votes or claw backs.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Plum said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators.html

 

Right. The great Orange menace and crew. 

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Plum said:

Bipartisan effort here. FDA regs are a b.... Vents could have been ordered that were already approved by the FDA. Why they weren't IDK? 🤷‍♀️

 

 

That says a contract was issued before one admin transferred over. It wasn’t purchased by the outgoing presumably b/c it wasn’t approved yet. That Something new became available after one admin left and another took over. That something new was never purchased by the new people AND the old stuff wasn’t maintained by the new people. That doesn’t say what you think it does.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

13 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

And how is this productive?  A vent needing parts or servicing isn’t ideal, but if the turnaround is a few days and a gasket or sterilization procedure it’s ready quickly and can be put into service. This is where pulling stock from less effected areas is a boon as well.

I realize one can punch holes in anything and find a downside no matter what, but having them available, even if they need work, is a major step ahead of having nothing ready.

Is this something that needs to be improved upon in the future? Sure.  It’s not something that can just sit, warehoused, without turnover and service.  But given where we are at, as long as the equipment is being worked on and parts or replacements are being queued, there is plenty of hope to go around and not just blame.

Plenty of things need working on as the virus has demonstrated, not the least of which is supply lines and factories and maintenance procedures and levels.  But that isn’t where the story ends, and quite frankly I’m uninterested in the political blame game compared to how the obstacles that inevitably come about are remedied.  Mistakes or errors or failures happen, it’s the speed and efficacy of the fix where it matters moving forward.

It’s productive in the sense that folks need to stop burying their heads in the sand about the series of incompetent actions that left us so exposed. We have so devalued experience, expertise and spending on preventive measures (whether it’s clean air/water/roads/energy) that we are ill prepared for the next threat too. Excuses don’t help us move forward. Acknowledgement and an effort to change/clean up the mess/messy people we have will.

ETA:The federal government has been hemorrhaging competent mid-level and senior people for the last several years. The workforce was already under  staffed and often retirement eligible and now it’s been totally hollowed out. The chickens have come home to roost. When all is said and done, the value of competent leadership, something many states are benefiting from, is going to be a major issue. It will take years to undo all the damage done to every. Single. flipping. agency. This was intentional and it should get much more attention than it has.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Sneezyone