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Local to me - The Royal Adelaide Show has been cancelled in only the fifth time in the event’s 181 year history.

The only other times the event has been cancelled was both World Wars, the Victorian Gold Rush of the 1850s and the 1919 Spanish Flu pandemic.

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

Thought I'd post a pic of my dd, getting ready to spend another day in a coronavirus triage tent!  

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The Israeli Prime Minister, the president, and the head of one of the other parties all reportedly had their nonresident adult children present at their Passover seders last week, in direct contravention to the rules established for the entire country.  The president apologized, the PM hand-waved it away, and the other guy said that he thought the rules were stupid.  Good work, everyone.

We are back on complete lockdown -- can only grocery shop in our own neighborhood -- through Thursday morning (i.e., the end of the Passover holiday).  After that the government is supposed to start considering various exit plans.  

The death rate here continues to be relatively low -- 0.1%, and the rate of serious cases has been consistently 2% for quite some time.  

Edited by JennyD
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ABC:  An expert has warned against a “herd immunity” approach to fighting COVID-19, saying Australians must wait for a vaccine before we can return to normal life.

RELATED: Follow more coronavirus news

Professor Raina MacIntyre, Head of the Biosecurity Research Program at UNSW Sydney’s Kirby Institute, warned that “allowing (the virus) to just rip through the community does not get rid of it”.

“What happens is, you have cycling epidemics…They kill a lot of people and they occur at huge rates,” she told The Australian Science Academy. “These are like the kind of epidemics we've never seen in our lifetimes, because we've benefited from vaccination.

“So if we let (COVID-19) rip, that's what we're going to see. We're going to see massive scale epidemics. They're not going to go away. It's going to be a worst-case scenario, a massive hit on the economy. Most workplaces won't be able to function because too many people will be off sick. And a lot of people will die, including younger, healthy people.”

There are more than 6300 confirmed COVID-19 cases in Australia, with 2870 in New South Wales, 1291 in Victoria, 998 in Queensland, 433 in South Australia, 527 in Western Australia, 150 in Tasmania, 103 in the Australian Capital Territory and 28 in the Northern Territory.

The death toll now stands at 61.

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https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/coronavirus-updates-us-navy-battles-growing-outbreak-hospital/story?id=70134122&id=70134122&cid=social_twitter_abcn&__twitter_impression=true
 

7 cases of Coronavirus among crew on the US Hospital ship 

3:30 a.m.: 7 crew members on USNS Mercy test positive for virus

A growing number of crew members aboard the USNS Mercy hospital ship docked in Los Angeles have tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

A total of seven medical treatment facility crew members have now been infected and are currently isolated off the ship, according to U.S. Navy Cmdr. John Face, a 3rd Fleet spokesman. The first positive case was confirmed on April 9.

Face said everyone who was considered to have been in close contact with the infected individuals remain in quarantine off the ship and have tested negative, with the exception of one crew member who was the fifth positive case.

The USNS Mercy hospital ship is docked at the Port of Los Angeles during the global pandemic of the novel coronavirus, in Los Angeles, California, U.S., April 13, 2020.Mario Anzuoni/Reuters

"The ship is following protocols and taking every precaution to ensure the health and safety of all crew members and patients on board," Face told ABC News in a statement early Monday. "This will not affect the ability for Mercy to receive patients at this time."

After arriving in the Port of Los Angeles last month, the USNS Mercy began treating non-coronavirus patients from area hospitals to help free up resources for COVID-19 patients.

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3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

7 cases of Coronavirus among crew on the US Hospital ship 

A growing number of crew members aboard the USNS Mercy hospital ship docked in Los Angeles have tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

A total of seven medical treatment facility crew members have now been infected and are currently isolated off the ship, according to U.S. Navy Cmdr. John Face, a 3rd Fleet spokesman. The first positive case was confirmed on April 9.

So, they brought it with them or picked it up there? I don't remember when they left wherever they were to head to LA.

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1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

So, they brought it with them or picked it up there? I don't remember when they left wherever they were to head to LA.

Think USNS Mercy was originally docked at San Diego 

Mar 27, 2020 · ... hospital ship USNS Mercy arrived in Los Angeles, California, on Friday after departing Monday from Naval Base San Diego.” https://www.navytimes.com/news/coronavirus/2020/03/27/usns-mercy-arrives-in-los-angeles-to-support-covid-19-response/

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🙂 🇬🇧 more than $2million raised now

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8216893/Captain-Tom-Moore-raises-1-2million-NHS-amidst-coronavirus-pandemic.html

A Second World War captain has raised more than £1.2million for 'our brave nurses and doctors' in the NHS by walking in his garden.

Captain Tom Moore, 99, set out last Thursday to walk 100 lengths of his garden before he turned 100-years-old on April 30.  He originally hoped to raise £1,000 for NHS Charities Together, but smashed that total in less than a day.

In less than a week the Bedfordshire veteran has captured the nation's heart and raised more than £1.2million to support doctors and nurses as they battle on the frontline of the coronavirus pandemic. 
...

'Whereas in the last war we had soldiers in uniform in khaki, this time our army are in doctors and nurse's uniform. They're doing such a marvellous job.

Tom and his family set out to raise £1,000 initially, but as donations flooded, the family decided to raise the target, with the latest goal set at £500,000, a figure that was comfortably beaten yesterday.

Speaking this morning Tom's daughter Sophie said: 'We have decided as a family we won't reset the target. We feel that we have shown a window into the world of a gem. Now the nation has taken this gem of a man into our hearts. 

'We feel that it's now up to the British public to take this as far as it should go, Tom will continue to walk and we, the family and friends, will continue to support him, this is now in the hands of the British public.'”

ETA:

donation link

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/tomswalkforthenhs

“£4,165,292.00
raised of £500,000.00 target
by 207463 supporters”  at 10:15pm Pacific Time April 14th
Edited by Arcadia
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New US map county.  If you click to the bottom tab and pick the one to the right, by population, you'll see the 3 ski counties that are high relative to their population, Blaine County in Idaho, Summit County in Utah, and in Colorado, I think Eagle County, @Margaret in CO will know.  So, @Margaret in CO , why is Gunnison high?  Is that a ski area, too? 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

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15 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009316
 

study screening all pregnant women in a New York hospital shows lots and lots of asymptomatic cases.  Only a few went on to develop symptoms.

84.6 pc negative

13.5 pc asymptomatic.

1.9 pc symptomatic 

 

 

How randomly are pregnant women in NY distributed?  Not totally random, but could be a proxy for total infection rate in NY.

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@mathnerd Santa Clara County

https://abc7news.com/health/live-santa-clara-cos-dr-cody-gives-covid-19-update/6102388/

“That being said, Dr. Cody warned it would be a long road to fully reopening.

"We're still probably at the beginning of what is going to be a very long marathon here in the county, across the region and indeed across the country."

Dr. Cody outlined three criteria that need to be met before moving toward reopening society and the economy: ensuring hospitals have enough capacity (including beds, staff, and personal protective equipment) to treat the virus, more widespread testing, and extensive contact tracing.

"We're a month in and we need to keep at it a bit longer," said Dr. Cody. "If we just lifted the shelter-in-place and went back to business, we'd be back where we were very quickly."”

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2 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

New US map county.  If you click to the bottom tab and pick the one to the right, by population, you'll see the 3 ski counties that are high relative to their population, Blaine County in Idaho, Summit County in Utah, and in Colorado, I think Eagle County, @Margaret in CO will know.  So, @Margaret in CO , why is Gunnison high?  Is that a ski area, too? 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

I don't know where they get their stats but I looked at my county.  It had stats about what kind of insurance.  It neglected one of the highest kinds in my city- Tricare, the military insurance that covers both current and retired military.  It is one of the larger types of insurance here and even larger proportion in some areas where most of the population is military.  They had veteran's, medicare, medicaid, employee, direct purchase and no insurance.  Both dh and I would be not in any of those categories as so would lots and lots of others.

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1 hour ago, ElizabethB said:

How randomly are pregnant women in NY distributed?  Not totally random, but could be a proxy for total infection rate in NY.

Yes.  although I think the immune system can sometimes be a bit weird when pregnant so I’m not sure how much can be extrapolated about the asymptomatic cases.

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2 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Death tolls likely far higher in Europe and the U.K. than currently reported or estimated, due to reporting discrepancies.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-death-toll-in-europe-likely-far-higher-than-first-reported-11586896486?tesla=y
 

Almost certainly true for Iran and China.  I guess we will never really know the true toll.  

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I wonder how much of the US increase is because of a difference in how they are counting the death toll.  The trend had been flat or downward for a few days.

Diagnosed cases continue to trend down despite much broader testing, so that is good news.

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16 minutes ago, SKL said:

I wonder how much of the US increase is because of a difference in how they are counting the death toll.  The trend had been flat or downward for a few days.

Diagnosed cases continue to trend down despite much broader testing, so that is good news.

That seems to be typical once lockdowns start being effective.  Same in Italy, etc.  Less new cases but more deaths as the existing cases run their course.

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2 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

The federal government today is wittering on about everyone sending their kids back to school, totally safe etc, so I think the dream of eliminating the virus here has been and gone. 

Looks like NSW schools will be open to all from Week 3 of Term 2 (with none of the Danish measures) which is in about 3 weeks times.

Parental chatter is that their kids are done, miss their friends etc and 'need' to go back for their socialisation.

I think people who can will maybe keep kids home.  I feel sorry for the teachers.

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8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes.  although I think the immune system can sometimes be a bit weird when pregnant so I’m not sure how much can be extrapolated about the asymptomatic cases.

Yes, the immune system usually decreases a lot which is why most RA women do not have symptoms or much lesser symptoms while pregnant.

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The thing I hope opens up very soon is the so-called elective surgeries.  I heard yesterday that includes cancer surgery, transplants, heart things like implanting something to stop arrythmias, etc.  ALl these things are  not elective and many more.  In a lot of orthopedic surgery- the risk of getting more serious problems from the surgery and less likely good outcome increases if surgery isn't done soon.

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2 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

The federal government today is wittering on about everyone sending their kids back to school, totally safe etc, so I think the dream of eliminating the virus here has been and gone. 

Looks like NSW schools will be open to all from Week 3 of Term 2 (with none of the Danish measures) which is in about 3 weeks times.

Parental chatter is that their kids are done, miss their friends etc and 'need' to go back for their socialisation.

My daughter is an only child. Thankfully she has friends that she can chat with online but it is not the same thing as personal contact. She is not seeing any other kids right now but I don't know how much longer this can go on. Kids need the company of other children. I can understand why parents are anxious to get their kids back in school. 

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13 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

I can't get past that firewall, not sure why since supposedly their COVID coverage is free, but from the title in the link, I can guess what it says, and I'm not really surprised.


At the same time, as cardiologists are contending with the immediate effects of COVID-19 on the heart, they’re asking how much of the damage could be long-lasting. In an early study of COVID-19 patients in China, heart failure was seen in nearly 12% of those who survived, including in some who had shown no signs of respiratory distress.

When lungs do a poor job of delivering oxygen to the body, the heart can come under severe stress and may emerge weaker. That’s concerning enough in an illness that typically causes breathing problems. But when even those without respiratory distress sustain injury to the heart, doctors have to wonder whether they have underestimated COVID-19’s ability to wreak lasting havoc.
“COVID-19 is not just a respiratory disorder,” said 
Dr. Harlan Krumholtz, a cardiologist at Yale University. “It can affect the heart, the liver, the kidneys, the brain, the endocrine system and the blood system.”

...

“I think there will be long-term sequelae,” said Yale cardiologist Dr. Joseph Brennan, using the medical term for a disease’s downstream effects. 

“I don’t know that for real,” he cautioned. “But this disease is so overwhelming” that some of the recovered are likely to face ongoing health concerns, he said.

Another question that could take years to answer is whether the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19 may lie dormant in the body for years and spring back later in different form.

It wouldn’t be the first virus to behave that way. After a chicken pox infection, for instance, the herpes virus that causes the illness hides quietly for decades and often emerges as the painful affliction shingles. The virus that causes hepatitis B can sow the seeds of liver cancer years later. And in the months after the West African Ebola epidemic subsided in 2016, the virus responsible for that illness was found to have taken up residence in the vitreous fluid of some of its victims’ eyes, causing blindness or vision impairment in 40% of those affected.”

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3 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

The thing I hope opens up very soon is the so-called elective surgeries.  I heard yesterday that includes cancer surgery, transplants, heart things like implanting something to stop arrythmias, etc.  ALl these things are  not elective and many more.  In a lot of orthopedic surgery- the risk of getting more serious problems from the surgery and less likely good outcome increases if surgery isn't done soon.

I have a friend who was scheduled for back surgery (it was a follow up to a back surgery several months ago where there were complications and they could not complete the intended surgery) that has been cancelled.  Now he is having to wait.  Some days he is in unbearable pain.  He is quickly losing the limited mobility he had, which is not good for long-term prognosis.  By the time these elective surgeries are allowed again, scheduling will be very backed up.

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6 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

 

Parents here who want their children back in school for social reasons need to be doing some heavy duty lobbying of government to provide adequate health protection for teachers and support staff.

A basic here that needs to be met before sending kids back is that school cleaners need their contracted hours extended so they can spend more than 4 min per classroom as it is at my school atm. 

I am a bit tired of being told to work in unsafe conditions 'for the kids'.

A basic platform of worker's rights is safety at work.

If people choose to send their children into conditions where the workers are not safe, when they have the choice to do otherwise, it's akin to crossing a picket line. IMO.

 

Yes, I agree. It reminds me of how we've taken to calling people who work at the grocery stores "heroes." When our kids go back to school, will we call our public school teachers "heroes" too? Making us feel better for asking them, these "heroes," to serve us without adequate pay and protection. But we call them "heroes" and maybe bring them a pizza so it's all okay. <eyeroll>  I'm taken by the term "hero" in these contexts. The assumption being that it's selfless service. It's essentially dehumanizing because no one should be expected to place their job above their own best interests. 

If only there was enough money to provide a solution to take care of our kids and the people who care for them. Crazy talk...Amazon might have to pay a dollar in taxes so that's obviously not a workable solution. "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."

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7 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I have a friend who was scheduled for back surgery (it was a follow up to a back surgery several months ago where there were complications and they could not complete the intended surgery) that has been cancelled.  Now he is having to wait.  Some days he is in unbearable pain.  He is quickly losing the limited mobility he had, which is not good for long-term prognosis.  By the time these elective surgeries are allowed again, scheduling will be very backed up.

Meanwhile, my Fil had a skin cancer removed yesterday. I would have thought that would be re-scheduled. Then on the way home, he wanted a coke to go with his chips, so Mil went in the store without her mask to get him a coke. We're doing all we can to keep them home, but sometimes they won't stay.

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1 hour ago, Math teacher said:

Meanwhile, my Fil had a skin cancer removed yesterday. I would have thought that would be re-scheduled.

 

Melanoma suspected? 

1 hour ago, Math teacher said:

Then on the way home, he wanted a coke to go with his chips, so Mil went in the store without her mask to get him a coke. We're doing all we can to keep them home, but sometimes they won't stay.

 

“Parents today.” 🥺😳

Sigh. 

 

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1 minute ago, Math teacher said:

He has little skin cancers removed all the time, so I doubt it, but not sure.

 

It might add some unnecessary risk to your parents or the medical staff, but afaik the main “elective surgeries” that were shut down in many places to make room for potential CV19 surges and not to have other people at unnecessary risk of getting CV19 in hospitals were the type of surgeries that require hospital — and tiny skin cancers rarely involve a hospital. 

 

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My brother just had a Covid test done at a local ER and was told he wouldn't have the results for three days. He's to go home and stay away from his family and other people until then. What upsets me is how difficult it was for him to even be seen. He has a cough and started having trouble breathing, especially at night, and he never has respiratory issues so it was scary. It took him several days and finally a local ER agreed to let him come in. They just moved so he doesn't have a regular doctor there yet. I keep hearing of a larger than normal amount of people dying in their homes and I wonder how many of them have tried to get seen to just be pushed aside. I'm hoping he doesn't get worse and if he does that it won't be as difficult to get help again. 

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

It might add some unnecessary risk to your parents or the medical staff, but afaik the main “elective surgeries” that were shut down in many places to make room for potential CV19 surges and not to have other people at unnecessary risk of getting CV19 in hospitals were the type of surgeries that require hospital — and tiny skin cancers rarely involve a hospital. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

It might add some unnecessary risk to your parents or the medical staff, but afaik the main “elective surgeries” that were shut down in many places to make room for potential CV19 surges and not to have other people at unnecessary risk of getting CV19 in hospitals were the type of surgeries that require hospital — and tiny skin cancers rarely involve a hospital. 

 

Yes- that was my concern. Risk to them and also to dh and I. Inlaws both have COPD and other issues, dh and I are both immune compromised.

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19 minutes ago, Math teacher said:

 

Yes- that was my concern. Risk to them and also to dh and I. Inlaws both have COPD and other issues, dh and I are both immune compromised.

 

I guess You can’t stop adult parents from doing what they will do.  

But you Can presumably take a safety approach for yourself — such as tell them you cannot _____ (eg be in person with them) as long as they are _____ (doing risky things) nor for [2-4] weeks after they stop doing things that might result in infection.  

With my 18yo I had to take a similar approach— That was before state mandated Stay Home rules,  but for my own well being he had to decide whether to move out and do as he liked or live at home and basically isolate as I needed.  

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As expected, Belgium has extended the lockdown until May 3. Garden and hardware type stores are going to be allowed to reopen. No decision was made on schools yet. The odd thing is that they are going to start allowing one visitor per patient into nursing homes if that person has been symptom free for 14 days. I think that's kind of crazy. There's talk of masks being suggested for grocery shopping and public transportation but not yet required. 

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I guess You can’t stop adult parents from doing what they will do.  

But you Can presumably take a safety approach for yourself — such as tell them you cannot _____ (eg be in person with them) as long as they are _____ (doing risky things) nor for [2-4] weeks after they stop doing things that might result in infection.  

With my 18yo I had to take a similar approach— That was before state mandated Stay Home rules,  but for my own well being he had to decide whether to move out and do as he liked or live at home and basically isolate as I needed.  

That is my intention-hopefully dh will agree.

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5 hours ago, Joker said:

 I keep hearing of a larger than normal amount of people dying in their homes and I wonder how many of them have tried to get seen to just be pushed aside. I'm hoping he doesn't get worse and if he does that it won't be as difficult to get help again. 

From what I am reading, the first time people get into the ER, they are sent home & "get better" for a couple days, then (I'm assuming the cytokine storm kicks in and) they get really bad. When they come in the second time, they are admitted, ventilated, and many times don't recover. That's why the one hospital in California, I think it is, sends the people home with some meds (hydrochlor...whatever it is called) trying to get them better before it gets to the point of no return.

I hope he gets help and gets better.

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6 hours ago, Pen said:

It might add some unnecessary risk to your parents or the medical staff, but afaik the main “elective surgeries” that were shut down in many places to make room for potential CV19 surges and not to have other people at unnecessary risk of getting CV19 in hospitals were the type of surgeries that require hospital — and tiny skin cancers rarely involve a hospital. 

In our state, they've said over and over it's mostly about PPE. There was some changing over to make specific expanded respiratory ICUs, but if we had PPE, they would open up more medical stuff. Even still, they are saying that people who are in increasing pain, etc. should speak with their doctor about reclassifying their surgery. They gave a whole list of criteria they used for classifying things as elective, and they said that a patient's status as elective could become not elective if those things change/worsen, etc. 

Many small procedures don't exhaust the kind of PPE they are most worried about. 

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7 hours ago, CAJinBE said:

As expected, Belgium has extended the lockdown until May 3. Garden and hardware type stores are going to be allowed to reopen. No decision was made on schools yet. The odd thing is that they are going to start allowing one visitor per patient into nursing homes if that person has been symptom free for 14 days. I think that's kind of crazy. There's talk of masks being suggested for grocery shopping and public transportation but not yet required. 

 Re visitors in nursing homes

I have given this a great deal of thought as my beloved father-in-law is staying with us for now. He has dementia. He had originally chosen a graduated care facility near my sister-in-law, but the shelter-in-place orders went into effect and we asked him to visit with us rather than transition into a new setting in which he would be confined to his own quarters without being able to see any of us.

The staff at nursing homes come and go each day. When they leave the facility, they interact with their families, who may have been to different workplaces all day themselves. They might go to the store or put gas in their cars or they may make poor choices on social distancing. Every single person who goes in and out of an extended care facility represents a danger of infection.

So if you refuse admittance to family members, you actually do NOT reduce the risk of infection, but you do substantially increase the risk of abuse because there are no concerned family members who will see bruises, who will notice theft, who will see neglect. Refusing all visitors places an extremely vulnerable population exclusively into the hands of people who are not nearly as motivated to protect them as their own family members are.

So I think, in the long run, emphasizing masks and hand washing and allowing a limited number of approved visitors access to loved ones will increase safety, ease the anxieties of isolation and lockdown for elderly residents, and will not significantly add to the infection risk.

Edited by Harriet Vane
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9 hours ago, CAJinBE said:

As expected, Belgium has extended the lockdown until May 3. Garden and hardware type stores are going to be allowed to reopen. No decision was made on schools yet. The odd thing is that they are going to start allowing one visitor per patient into nursing homes if that person has been symptom free for 14 days. I think that's kind of crazy. There's talk of masks being suggested for grocery shopping and public transportation but not yet required. 

 

2 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

 Re visitors in nursing homes

I have given this a great deal of thought as my beloved father-in-law is staying with us for now. He has dementia. He had originally chosen a graduated care facility near my sister-in-law, but the shelter-in-place orders went into effect and we asked him to visit with us rather than transition into a new setting in which he would be confined to his own quarters without being able to see any of us.

The staff at nursing homes come and go each day. When they leave the facility, they interact with their families, who may have been to different workplaces all day themselves. They might go to the store or put gas in their cars or they may make poor choices on social distancing. Every single person who goes in and out of an extended care facility represents a danger of infection.

So if you refuse admittance to family members, you actually do NOT reduce the risk of infection, but you do substantially increase the risk of abuse because there are no concerned family members who will see bruises, who will notice theft, who will see neglect. Refusing all visitors places an extremely vulnerable population exclusively into the hands of people who are not nearly as motivated to protect them as their own family members are.

So I think, in the long run, emphasizing masks and hand washing and allowing a limited number of approved visitors access to loved ones will increase safety, ease the anxieties of isolation and lockdown for elderly residents, and will not significantly add to the infection risk.

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-outbreak-how-it-spread-nationwide-from-washington-state-nursing-home/

From

March 24, so situation is much different now as NYC, Boston, New Orleans, Detroit etc became main hot spots, but still interesting IMO and still relevant to Nursing home discussions.  Article starts: 

 

Nearly half of all American deaths from the novel coronavirus trace back to the Life Care Center in Kirkland, Wash. Its story is instructive.

Nearly half of all coronavirus deaths so far in the United States can be traced to a single nursing home in Kirkland, Wash., just east of Seattle. Life Care Center, a low-slung building in a quiet part of town, is now the epicenter of the pandemic spreading throughout the United States.

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-outbreak-how-it-spread-nationwide-from-washington-state-nursing-home/

From

March 24, so situation is much different now as NYC, Boston, New Orleans, Detroit etc became main hot spots, but still interesting IMO and still relevant to Nursing home discussions.  Article starts: 

 

Nearly half of all American deaths from the novel coronavirus trace back to the Life Care Center in Kirkland, Wash. Its story is instructive.

Nearly half of all coronavirus deaths so far in the United States can be traced to a single nursing home in Kirkland, Wash., just east of Seattle. Life Care Center, a low-slung building in a quiet part of town, is now the epicenter of the pandemic spreading throughout the United States.

I read the article. I am a little confused—I know about that nursing home and had read other egregious accounts of the lack of sanitation or controls. The thing is, even a locked down facility has the contagion risk from staff that I mentioned, so it does not seem that allowing a tightly controlled list of family visitors is any more dangerous. 

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I was wondering the same thing about the nursing home staff. If they are coming and going, the virus is probably going both ways as well. My mom is in a senior living, not nursing home, and she can't go anywhere or see relatives except they will allow her to see people at a distance outside recently. But the staff doesn't live there and she sees them every day. I know they are distancing and she doesn't receive any direct care, but there are still germs around everywhere. They are also making her food and delivering it to her door. I know they are trying their best under difficult circumstances, but this along with many other things about this virus mitigation doesn't make sense. 

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Nurses suspended for refusing Covid-19 care without N95 masks. Just a couple snippets:

".. a handful of nurses told their managers they wouldn’t enter COVID-19 patient rooms without N95 masks. The hospital suspended them, according to the National Nurses Union, which represents them. 

Guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don’t require N95 masks for COVID-19 caregivers, but many hospitals are opting for the added protection because the infection has proven to be extremely contagious."

https://www.mail.com/int/entertainment/lifestyle/9858344-nurses-suspended-refusing-covid-19-care-without-n9.html#.1272-stage-ss1-2

I can't believe te CDC guidelines at this time don't call for more than surgical masks. That seems ignorant and irresponsible. I get that there is a shortage but that doesn't mean you don't admit how important it is to wear proper PPE when interacting with possibly very contagious individuals.

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I’m having a difficult time with the nursing home situation, particularly in NJ. I’m not going to link the story because it upset me too much, but there was a horrible issue in a particular facility that was absolutely not dealt with properly. On the same days as reading that, we came to learn that there was a positive case in my grandmother’s facility.

It’s a little weird, because I have been operating under the assumption that her place had at least one case; that seemed to be the general assumption from the state. Other people in the family don’t interpret things the way I do though, so it’s been strange to watch them all processing while I already did days ago.

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A big chunk of the deaths and infections in my area are coming from nursing homes. It is everything StellaM said. Workers are working in more than 1 facility spreading the virus around and then spreading it in the community. They have just started telling them that they can only work in one place and paying them for lost wages. I hope this curbs the spreading. I do think we really have to pay attention to what goes on in nursing homes if we want to stop the pandemic and prevent death. And those poor residents are so vulnerable.

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4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Nurses suspended for refusing Covid-19 care without N95 masks. Just a couple snippets:

".. a handful of nurses told their managers they wouldn’t enter COVID-19 patient rooms without N95 masks. The hospital suspended them, according to the National Nurses Union, which represents them. 

Guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don’t require N95 masks for COVID-19 caregivers, but many hospitals are opting for the added protection because the infection has proven to be extremely contagious."

https://www.mail.com/int/entertainment/lifestyle/9858344-nurses-suspended-refusing-covid-19-care-without-n9.html#.1272-stage-ss1-2

I can't believe te CDC guidelines at this time don't call for more than surgical masks. That seems ignorant and irresponsible. I get that there is a shortage but that doesn't mean you don't admit how important it is to wear proper PPE when interacting with possibly very contagious individuals.

Our hospital is taking airborne precautions with Covid and suspected Covid patients. I’m sure the CDC guidelines are because of the shortages and that is horrendous. I don’t think we can be 100% sure about transmission yet but I can’t believe they are willing to say definitively  that it isn’t airborne.

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4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Nurses suspended for refusing Covid-19 care without N95 masks. Just a couple snippets:

".. a handful of nurses told their managers they wouldn’t enter COVID-19 patient rooms without N95 masks. The hospital suspended them, according to the National Nurses Union, which represents them. 

Guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don’t require N95 masks for COVID-19 caregivers, but many hospitals are opting for the added protection because the infection has proven to be extremely contagious."

https://www.mail.com/int/entertainment/lifestyle/9858344-nurses-suspended-refusing-covid-19-care-without-n9.html#.1272-stage-ss1-2

I can't believe te CDC guidelines at this time don't call for more than surgical masks. That seems ignorant and irresponsible. I get that there is a shortage but that doesn't mean you don't admit how important it is to wear proper PPE when interacting with possibly very contagious individuals.

I feel like hospitals probably have regulations that say they have to follow CDC guidelines. The CDC knows this and also knows ain't nobody going to follow CDC guidelines anymore! So they changed their guidelines so hospitals could say they are complying and we can all feel safe because, look- hospitals are protecting their nurses by following CDC guidelines. 

Spread in nursing homes reflects that policies and procedures were unsafe previously. I don't think the only choice is to lock them down and make them unsafe in other ways- honestly, if someone was in the same care home that my great grandmother was, it would be kinder to just euthanize than lock them up, unvisited, alone, for a year or more. There needs to be policies to reduce the risks of covid and the risks of abuse and despair. The way things have been don't have to be the way things become. 

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5 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

I read the article. I am a little confused—I know about that nursing home and had read other egregious accounts of the lack of sanitation or controls. The thing is, even a locked down facility has the contagion risk from staff that I mentioned, so it does not seem that allowing a tightly controlled list of family visitors is any more dangerous. 

 

I think that nursing homes need far more tight precautions—especially as states start to “open”—

it could include some tightly controlled family visitors, perhaps 4 visitors per 50 bed unit who can come repeatedly during a month with test for CV19 at start and restrictions on what they do, and visit and look at conditions for all residents, not just own family

plus tighter, not looser, cautions regarding caregivers and staff.  PPE, testing, protocols, single facility work ...  

visitors can very quickly not only cause all the problems of staff, but may also be from farther away such that a visitor from one city drives from, say, San Diego to Seattle and back, visiting friends and family (including elders in Nursing Homes) along the way, and quickly spreads infection along the route travelled

Especially if states have just opened and lots of people are antsy to visit their elders that could happen quite a lot.  And summer could easily bring both travel up down a major interstate, but also bicoastal travel in various ways, including from NYC and Boston to areas much further than Rhode Island.  And it becomes much more easy also to drive across Cascades/Sierras  and Rocky Mountains in summer, possibly spreading more infection into the current low case rate states, where any one case seeded into any one home can become another Kirkland...

My mother’s rural out of the way area became a CV19 area due to just one infectious traveller from NYC (~ 1000 miles away).  Had that infectious person visited a nursing home there could have easily been many more cases including ICU requiring ones, and there are no local to them ICU type beds at all for around 150 miles. 

 

Edited by Pen
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