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wuhan - coronavirus

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On 4/2/2020 at 10:57 PM, Jean in Newcastle said:

And if everyone is wearing those masks then you have filtering going on both sides which would limit the particulates even further.  

Yup. But the big idea is they don't protect you as much as they do others. My mask protects you, your mask protects me. We need to GET enough masks, and then make them as essential in public as wearing clothing. 

On 4/3/2020 at 8:29 AM, vonfirmath said:

 

I wish this was true because it would mean most of my sponsored kids' families would be fine because they tend to live in countries along the equator. And they tend to live their lives outside. But Ecuador is being hit HARD -- Bodies in the street and everything  It may have an effect, but not enough.

 

I keep seeing people talk about warm weather stopping this, and given that Florida has had weather in the 90s recently (a cold front came through and we are only in 80s now) and our cases continue to go up and up, I'm not counting on warm weather to do much. Especially in the USA where people have air conditioning anyway. 

 

16 hours ago, Pen said:

 

GARLIC?

 

I think someone raised garlic some pages back?

 

It isn’t listed in my best herbal antiviral book as being active against coronavirus or having been helpful for SARS1, afaik.  It at least certainly isn’t listed as an herb to particularly consider for coronavirus. 

Ribivarin pharmaceutical antiviral was apparently also only minimally effective, so something, whether herb or pharmaceutical being “antiviral” does not mean it will be effective against all virus forms. 

Thank you!

16 hours ago, HeighHo said:

 

Vit D has another feature -- fat cells love it and grab it, taking it out of circulation.  This is one of the reasons people are asked to maintain a healthy weight....their Vit D will circulate rather than be stored.

Yup. Obese people often have low D. I am right at 30BMI right now, and my D is down to 33. "Normal" but I feel much better when it is at least over 40. Need to up my supplement, and I'm already getting quite a bit of sunshine a week mowing the yard, etc here in florida. 

11 hours ago, mumto2 said:

I read a very similar article behind a paywall in The Telegraph yesterday and just spotted it in the Daily Mail.....yes I know but the main bits are identical, the mail is just significantly longer with pictures.  Since the main points are the same I am linking the one everyone can read......... a team of German researchers are doing research in the hardest hit part of Germany to try and figure out in real life how the virus is spreading.  They have tested doorknobs, animal fur etc in patients homes and found no virus on those surfaces.  At this point they are concluding only person to person but very early.  
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8182767/Scientist-casts-doubt-coronavirus-spread.html

Interesting and somewhat calming......that said neither Dh or I plan to stop wearing gloves to open Amazon packages. 😉 My hand washing protocols are still in place , it’s just made me feel a bit less stressed about one mistake and someone touches their face and infects us all! 

Well, given that we know they found the virus on surfaces on one of the cruise ships 17 days later, I REALLY doubt that fomites are not an issue. I'm guessing those people were just cleaning well. Or maybe it depends on the temperature and humidity in the air? But it would be VERY irresponsible for anyone to promote the idea that it can't be spread on surfaces until we know a lot more. 

 

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11 hours ago, mumto2 said:

I read a very similar article behind a paywall in The Telegraph yesterday and just spotted it in the Daily Mail.....yes I know but the main bits are identical, the mail is just significantly longer with pictures.  Since the main points are the same I am linking the one everyone can read......... a team of German researchers are doing research in the hardest hit part of Germany to try and figure out in real life how the virus is spreading.  They have tested doorknobs, animal fur etc in patients homes and found no virus on those surfaces.  At this point they are concluding only person to person but very early.  
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8182767/Scientist-casts-doubt-coronavirus-spread.html

Interesting and somewhat calming......that said neither Dh or I plan to stop wearing gloves to open Amazon packages. 😉 My hand washing protocols are still in place , it’s just made me feel a bit less stressed about one mistake and someone touches their face and infects us all! 

 

I am skeptical of that Mail article because:

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/singapore-coronavirus-study-shows-that-virus-lingers-in-rooms-and-toilets

and the Princeton and several other combined entities study about virus time remaining viable on surfaces

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5 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Well, given that we know they found the virus on surfaces on one of the cruise ships 17 days later, I REALLY doubt that fomites are not an issue. I'm guessing those people were just cleaning well. Or maybe it depends on the temperature and humidity in the air? But it would be VERY irresponsible for anyone to promote the idea that it can't be spread on surfaces until we know a lot more. 

 

I agree that it is safest to go ahead assuming it can spread on surfaces until more info comes in. But the study was looking for live virus - the virus found on the ship was not live virus. Somebody explained this upthread; I believe they called it the shell of the virus. It could not have infected anybody.

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3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I am skeptical of that Mail article because:

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/singapore-coronavirus-study-shows-that-virus-lingers-in-rooms-and-toilets

and the Princeton and several other combined entities study about virus time remaining viable on surfaces

I think there is general agreement that the virus *could* spread from surfaces. However, if person-to-person is the way it is spread most of the time, it changes the messaging that is out there.

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10 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Thank you!

 

Oh good, I could not recall who had raised garlic question to tag — I’m glad you noticed it!   

 

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4 minutes ago, TracyP said:

I think there is general agreement that the virus *could* spread from surfaces. However, if person-to-person is the way it is spread most of the time, it changes the messaging that is out there.

 

If you at least in part mean let’s all wear masks, or st least scarves or bandanas over our noses and mouths,  I agree.  

And if we can figure out separators for cashiers and others let’s do that. 

Etc. 

And let’s keep washing our hands well too. 

 

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21 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I wonder why hairdressers were exempted. 

 

Have you looked at me lately? haha Just kidding, it seems like a bad idea.

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2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

If you at least in part mean let’s all wear masks, or st least scarves or bandanas over our noses and mouths,  I agree.  

And if we can figure out separators for cashiers and others let’s do that. 

Etc. 

And let’s keep washing our hands well too. 

 

That's exactly what I mean. 

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33 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Well, given that we know they found the virus on surfaces on one of the cruise ships 17 days later, I REALLY doubt that fomites are not an issue. I'm guessing those people were just cleaning well. Or maybe it depends on the temperature and humidity in the air? But it would be VERY irresponsible for anyone to promote the idea that it can't be spread on surfaces until we know a lot more. 

As others have already pointed out, they did not find live virus on the cruiseship after 17 days, but just the RNA.

The director of the German institute cited in the mail article explained (in German media today https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covid-19-wie-lange-sich-das-coronavirus-auf-oberflaechen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1117010)  that they did detect virus on those surfaces (door handles, cell phones, remotes etc) but were unable to culture the virus from these samples and concluded that they found RNA but no live virus. He said they tested households where highly infectious people had lived and were not able to get live virus off surfaces. 

ETA: The source I quoted is the German public radio, equivalent to NPR. In my decades long experience, they have balanced and rational reporting, and I would consider it trustworthy.

Edited by regentrude
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29 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Yup. But the big idea is they don't protect you as much as they do others. My mask protects you, your mask protects me. We need to GET enough masks, and then make them as essential in public as wearing clothing. 

I keep seeing people talk about warm weather stopping this, and given that Florida has had weather in the 90s recently (a cold front came through and we are only in 80s now) and our cases continue to go up and up, I'm not counting on warm weather to do much. Especially in the USA where people have air conditioning anyway. 

 

Thank you!

Yup. Obese people often have low D. I am right at 30BMI right now, and my D is down to 33. "Normal" but I feel much better when it is at least over 40. Need to up my supplement, and I'm already getting quite a bit of sunshine a week mowing the yard, etc here in florida. 

Well, given that we know they found the virus on surfaces on one of the cruise ships 17 days later, I REALLY doubt that fomites are not an issue. I'm guessing those people were just cleaning well. Or maybe it depends on the temperature and humidity in the air? But it would be VERY irresponsible for anyone to promote the idea that it can't be spread on surfaces until we know a lot more. 

 


They found genetic material from the virus 17 days later, not infectious virions (if I’m using this word correctly). The studies on how long the virus lingers are meaningful, but this tidbit isn’t. I think we’ve found intact DNA from many, many years ago from many creatures.

Edited by square_25
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6 hours ago, Terabith said:

There's a pretty huge difference between placing an order and ordering a company to produce PPE for US purposes and doing what he did, which was essentially stealing orders on their way to Germany and Canada that had been paid for and promised.  (Which, not only had he not invoked the Defense Act until Thursday, but he hadn't placed orders.)  The first is completely legitimate.  The second is basically an act of piracy.  Very uncool.  

Considering that the federal (US) govt has been intercepting and cancelling legitimate paid-for orders from its own states mid-order/shipment (I know MA has had a bunch intercepted; I'm sure it's lots more), it's hardly surprising they're doing it to other countries.  The act should have been invoked much earlier so that it was just prioritization, not mid-process.

But of course, we're now learning from Jared that the stuff the feds have is for them, not for the states (y'know the people of America) either.  🤬

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https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973
 

this was the previous study we talked about that had the 3 hours for aerosols and 72 for plastic and stainless steel.  However finding some viable virus particles versus enough to probably cause infection may be different things.  I think the half life was estimated at around 6 hours.  

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6 hours ago, Terabith said:

There's a pretty huge difference between placing an order and ordering a company to produce PPE for US purposes and doing what he did, which was essentially stealing orders on their way to Germany and Canada that had been paid for and promised.  (Which, not only had he not invoked the Defense Act until Thursday, but he hadn't placed orders.)  The first is completely legitimate.  The second is basically an act of piracy.  Very uncool.  

Yes. It's grabbing another customer's toilet paper from their cart.

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Sounds like we have a bubble that is just our immediate family, although dh is on his way to add his mom to our bubble.   Other than the grocery store, none of us have been in public places in weeks.   We're in NJ where stay at home orders have been in place for a while, although violated quite a bit.  Now people seem to be taking it seriously since it's pretty hard to ignore when it's right over the river.  Dh said most people were wearing masks at the grocery store yesterday.

I saw this morning that NY is over 100,000 cases and about 12 deaths an hour. 

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22 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Considering that the federal (US) govt has been intercepting and cancelling legitimate paid-for orders from its own states mid-order/shipment (I know MA has had a bunch intercepted; I'm sure it's lots more), it's hardly surprising they're doing it to other countries.  The act should have been invoked much earlier so that it was just prioritization, not mid-process.

But of course, we're now learning from Jared that the stuff the feds have is for them, not for the states (y'know the people of America) either.  🤬

 

I do wonder who it IS for. It's not the states, it's not the District of Columbia, so this is a little mysterious to me. 

Yeah, taking the orders from states mid-shipment after telling the states to buy their own stuff is just... I don't know, words fail me. I think my 7 year old could organize things better than this. 

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15 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Yes. It's grabbing another customer's toilet paper from their cart.

 

That isn’t the analogy I would use.  

 I think there are extremely serious ethical dilemmas.

And I think it matters a lot if Place something was destined to go to was Italy or Spain with a problem perhaps bigger than USA own problems, or somewhere that isn’t having a severe problem or at least nowhere near the problem USA is having. 

Legally it is probably a breach of contract. Breach of contract is a Very common legal issue and one that has accepted remedies in law. 

It may not be breach of contract if the contract had language that excluded such a situation. 

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2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I do wonder who it IS for. It's not the states, it's not the District of Columbia, so this is a little mysterious to me. 

Yeah, taking the orders from states mid-shipment after telling the states to buy their own stuff is just... I don't know, words fail me. I think my 7 year old could organize things better than this. 

To be fair, since issues are coming up the federal task force is trying to halt, assess, and improve.  With the current needs changing daily and the complexity of the response needed there are bound to be mistakes.

I don’t judge based on what goes wrong, but how quickly and well it is FIXED when the error is assessed.  

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32 minutes ago, regentrude said:

As others have already pointed out, they did not find live virus on the cruiseship after 17 days, but just the RNA.

The director of the German institute cited in the mail article explained (in German media today https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covid-19-wie-lange-sich-das-coronavirus-auf-oberflaechen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1117010)  that they did detect virus on those surfaces (door handles, cell phones, remotes etc) but were unable to culture the virus from these samples and concluded that they found RNA but no live virus. He said they tested households where highly infectious people had lived and were not able to get live virus off surfaces. 

ETA: The source I quoted is the German public radio, equivalent to NPR. In my decades long experience, they have balanced and rational reporting, and I would consider it trustworthy.

I originally found a report of the study in The Telegraph but since most can’t get behind the paywall used The Daily Mail because it made the same points.  So glad you were able to listen and read in German to the information.

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5 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

To be fair, since issues are coming up the federal task force is trying to halt, assess, and improve.  With the current needs changing daily and the complexity of the response needed there are bound to be mistakes.

I don’t judge based on what goes wrong, but how quickly and well it is FIXED when the error is assessed.  

You are not going to convince that seizing shipments to states midway without coordinating with the states themselves and without an explicit plan for how to distribute things is a good idea. And there are no needs changing daily. It's been abundantly obvious the whole time that states bidding against each other was going to be a confusing mess that drove up prices. That's really basic economics. Nothing has changed. 

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11 minutes ago, Pen said:

That isn’t the analogy I would use.  

 I think there are extremely serious ethical dilemmas.

And I think it matters a lot if Place something was destined to go to was Italy or Spain with a problem perhaps bigger than USA own problems, or somewhere that isn’t having a severe problem or at least nowhere near the problem USA is having. 

It is exactly like snatching the toilet paper from another customer who is waiting in line at the checkout (and handing the cashier an extra ten bucks so they let you cut in line). It's exactly the kind of behavior we would find despicable from another person.
The mask shipment ordered for Berlin was on the airport to be flown over when they swooped in and took it.

FWIW, Germany has more cases per capita than the US (1100 vs 840). So nope, no justification on that count either.

Edited by regentrude
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8 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

Sounds like we have a bubble that is just our immediate family, although dh is on his way to add his mom to our bubble.   Other than the grocery store, none of us have been in public places in weeks.   We're in NJ where stay at home orders have been in place for a while, although violated quite a bit.  Now people seem to be taking it seriously since it's pretty hard to ignore when it's right over the river.  Dh said most people were wearing masks at the grocery store yesterday.

I saw this morning that NY is over 100,000 cases and about 12 deaths an hour. 

 

Yes.

and gone from single refrigerator trucks for bodies to multiple it looks like in pictures.  

Not yet filling ice rinks with dead bodies, and I haven’t yet heard reports of people in NYC stuck at home with dead relatives they cannot get moved out. (Are these things to be thankful for? That it’s not as bad as Italy, Ecuador? Or will they be coming next?) 

 

But elsewhere reports are that people are still holding parties, huge church services...

 

 

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45 minutes ago, regentrude said:

As others have already pointed out, they did not find live virus on the cruiseship after 17 days, but just the RNA.

The director of the German institute cited in the mail article explained (in German media today https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covid-19-wie-lange-sich-das-coronavirus-auf-oberflaechen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1117010)  that they did detect virus on those surfaces (door handles, cell phones, remotes etc) but were unable to culture the virus from these samples and concluded that they found RNA but no live virus. He said they tested households where highly infectious people had lived and were not able to get live virus off surfaces. 

ETA: The source I quoted is the German public radio, equivalent to NPR. In my decades long experience, they have balanced and rational reporting, and I would consider it trustworthy.

 

What,  from the German,  was the time lapse between the infectious people being in the household and trying to culture the viruses? 

 

 

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Just now, Pen said:

What,  from the German,  was the time lapse between the infectious people being in the household and trying to culture the viruses? 

I only saw the radio report, not a scientific study. He did not give details.
They started this week conducting a detailed study in the town that is one of the epicenters, but results are not yet available.

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28 minutes ago, regentrude said:

It is exactly like snatching the toilet paper from another customer who is waiting in line at the checkout (and handing the cashier an extra ten bucks so they let you cut in line).

 

I think TP squabble analogy trivializes the situation.   

 

? It might be more like triaging people for a ventilator when there are several patients all needing it.

Is Germany out of PPE for health workers and asking the public to make masks for health workers?  If so, then I agree that Germany is equally in need.  

https://www.stcharleshealthcare.org/covid-19/hand-sewn-masks

 

 

Possibly good news whether for USA or Germany or wherever: 

 

Edited by Pen
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11 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

On the flip side it would mean all the world health organisation emphasis on hand washing instead of mask wearing was just plain wrong.  Which is kind of depressing because they’ve been pushing it hard for six weeks or so.

But wouldn’t the droplets from coughs and sneezes land on your hands which people promptly put to their face?  I think there is a difference between hands and general surfaces/packages sitting on a truck for hours being the main means of transmission.  Also, we are learning more about this new virus all the time so I don’t think the previous advice was wrong, but we have have learned more so they are adding recommendations rather than changing.

Edited by Mom2mthj
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5 hours ago, lewelma said:

Not how bubbles actually work here. For the people in your bubble, you can be closer than 2 meters to, you can share a toilet and kitchen with them, and you don't have to wear protective gear around them. When you go work in an essential service, your employer is required to give you protective gear or have you 2 meters away from other employees/customers.  People you work with are not in your bubble.

The idea of the bubble is to keep *close* interactions in clearly-defined separate units and to not allow them to overlap.  This is the core feature of our lockdown.

 

The way I see it, shared bathrooms, shared equipment and even shared paperwork could be weak spots. So at work folks can’t relax like at home. Otherwise sounds like a good plan, for jobs that can be done without contact. 

 

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I found this map really interesting in that it shows as countries start to see more cases and are in the midst of their surge, they shut down exports to preserve as much as possible. Its human nature. As the plane is going down, you can’t save your child without first putting the mask on yourself. 
 

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/03/30/countries-race-to-limit-ban-exports-of-masks-ventilators-other-gear/

9C6BA365-8DD4-48B9-97CC-36F99E5605B6.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

I am skeptical of that Mail article because:

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/singapore-coronavirus-study-shows-that-virus-lingers-in-rooms-and-toilets

and the Princeton and several other combined entities study about virus time remaining viable on surfaces

Just because there is viable virus on surfaces doesn't mean that it's a major route of transmission.  The virus has to get from the surface into a place in your respiratory tract where it can set up shop in order to infect you.  Since viruses don't leap off of surfaces, you must do this yourself.  And by "doing this yourself," I mean that you have to stick it into your nose, eye, or mouth.  Not just "touch your face," but really get it into an entry point to the respiratory tract.  

Virus floating around in the air--now *that's* where the action is.

Edited by EKS
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1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Yes. It's grabbing another customer's toilet paper from their cart.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html   you might find this interesting.  Could it be that the customer already has a stocked closet, as well as less projected need in the near term, so could afford to give up a few rolls from the next delivery cart? 

Edited by HeighHo
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I think it's absolutely reasonable to stop exports (as I already said upthread.) In fact, we should have done it sooner, probably. However, seizing shipments is bound to lead to bad will and is therefore a silly thing to do. 

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🙂 @Pen Oregon

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/104-year-old-american-is-worlds-oldest-coronavirus-survivor

“NEW YORK - An American who survived World War II and the Spanish Flu pandemic is now the world's oldest coronavirus survivor after a miraculous recovery.

Mr Bill Lapschies, 104, displayed symptoms associated with the virus on March 5 and was quickly put into isolation at the Edward C. Allworth Veterans' Home in Lebanon, Oregon, where he resides.

Mr Lapschies was one of the first two residents at the home to test positive for the virus. The other victim, a man in his 90s, has since died, reported The Daily Mail.

...

Mr Lapschies became symptomatic around the same time Oregon recorded its first Covid-19 case in nearly Marion County.

He had a 'moderate' case of coronavirus according to Dr Rob Richardson, his physician. However, he did not develop any serious breathing problems.

Dr Richardson said that Mr Lapschies would likely have been transferred to a hospital if he had not been residing at the veterans' home.

...

Two nurses in contact with Mr Lapchies and the other resident who was first infected and later died had shown the same symptoms.

Both nurses were told to get tested by the home, but were turned away with 'mild' symptoms and continued to work for a week before they both tested positive.

Mr Lapchies celebrated his 104th birthday with his family on Wednesday (April 1), 25 days since he first displayed Covid-19 symptoms.

...

Other elderly people have also beaten Covid-19.

Ms Zhang Guangfen, a 103-year-old grandmother in China, recovered after six days of treatment in Wuhan. She is believed to be the oldest surviving coronavirus patient in China.

A 103-year-old woman in Iran also recovered after being hospitalised for a week.

In Genoa, Italy, Ms Italica Grondona, 102, was nicknamed 'Highlander' - in homage to the fictional immortal character - after she recovered following a 20-day stay in hospital.

In South Korea, the oldest survivor is a 96-year-old woman from Cheongdo County.”

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15 minutes ago, Plum said:

I found this map really interesting in that it shows as countries start to see more cases and are in the midst of their surge, they shut down exports to preserve as much as possible. Its human nature. As the plane is going down, you can’t save your child without first putting the mask on yourself. 
 

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/03/30/countries-race-to-limit-ban-exports-of-masks-ventilators-other-gear/

9C6BA365-8DD4-48B9-97CC-36F99E5605B6.jpeg

Except this may be more akin to the situation where there’s only one oxygen mask and you’re deciding who gets it.  Not a good place to be globally.  

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Food for thought on the speed of the US response. I don’t always agree with Brit Hume, but he is someone I always stop and listen to nonetheless.

https://disrn.com/news/fauci-on-january-21-coronavirus-not-a-major-threat--not-something-citizens-of-us-should-be-worried-about

BF63ADE0-5107-4C4A-9607-85460DDB29FD.thumb.jpeg.1d48f9947c993497d8a3abafb0f0798a.jpeg
That was said January 24th.

Edited by Arctic Mama
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4 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Food for thought on the speed of the US response. I don’t always agree with Brit Hume, but he is someone I always stop and listen to nonetheless.

https://disrn.com/news/fauci-on-january-21-coronavirus-not-a-major-threat--not-something-citizens-of-us-should-be-worried-about

BF63ADE0-5107-4C4A-9607-85460DDB29FD.thumb.jpeg.1d48f9947c993497d8a3abafb0f0798a.jpeg
That was said January 24th.

There is a difference between the average Joe being worried about a thing and a government preparing for a thing.

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1 hour ago, regentrude said:

It is exactly like snatching the toilet paper from another customer who is waiting in line at the checkout (and handing the cashier an extra ten bucks so they let you cut in line). It's exactly the kind of behavior we would find despicable from another person.
The mask shipment ordered for Berlin was on the airport to be flown over when they swooped in and took it.

FWIW, Germany has more cases per capita than the US (1100 vs 840). So nope, no justification on that count either.

Germany isn't innocent of the same thing they are criticizing. They have blocked more than one shipment going through their country in route to another country (although not purchased from a German company). One example that gives a summary: https://www.thelocal.com/20200312/mask-hysteria

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20 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html   you might find this interesting.  Could it be that the customer already has a stocked closet, as well as less projected need in the near term, so could afford to give up a few rolls from the next delivery cart? 

There is no well stocked closet, and the implication makes me really upset because it hits close to home. My sister is a doctor in Germany at a major university hospital. For several weeks now, she has been going into the OR with a simple cloth mask she has to take home each night and launder and boil to sterilize. That is all they have.  

While Germany may have a lower death rate than other countries, they absolutely have a shortage of protective equipment.

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1 hour ago, Starr said:

Have you looked at me lately? haha Just kidding, it seems like a bad idea.

 

Yes. And so does me seriously thinking about a DIY pixie cut. 😁

It’s a no-win on the coiffure front! People are having fun, though. My teen’s friends are all experimenting - girls with various colors, boys flat out shaving their heads. Beats roaming the street in virulent packs. 

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4 minutes ago, EKS said:

There is a difference between the average Joe being worried about a thing and a government preparing for a thing.

When that is the message, however, and then citizens are being castigated for being confused on the severity or significance of the threat, that’s where I take issue.  And there has been plenty of that going around.  But the message for weeks was that the danger was low, partially based on faulty data, I think.

There has been so much shade thrown on this thread at various governors and parts of the feds and so much praise for Fauci. But the fact is the people generating the models and informing the policy have done more than a small about face on it, and the lag in citizens understanding the shift seems predictable in light of that.

It’s not up for debate, it’s just a tidbit I wasn’t sure everyone on this thread was aware of, to throw in the massive hopper of information whereby we glean a more thorough understanding of what happened, and when.

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1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

 

Yes. And so does me seriously thinking about a DIY pixie cut. 😁

It’s a no-win on the coiffure front! People are having fun, though. My teen’s friends are all experimenting - girls with various colors, boys flat out shaving their heads. Beats roaming the street in virulent packs. 

That’s going on here, too.  I’m just getting to see how much gray I have in my roots 😗

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1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

But of course, we're now learning from Jared that the stuff the feds have is for them, not for the states (y'know the people of America) either.  🤬

 

Definitely a did he really just say that? moment. 

🤐

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58 minutes ago, Pen said:

Is Germany out of PPE for health workers and asking the public to make masks for health workers?  If so, then I agree that Germany is equally in need.  

As I wrote in another post just now:

my sister is a doctor in a major university hospital in Germany (so no small rural hospital). All she has had for weeks now to wear into the OR is one simple cloth mask she has to take home every night after her shift, and wash and boil or steam iron to sterilize it, so she can wear this mask again the next day. 
A cloth mask that is soaked after a couple of hours  (which is normally a complete no-no), but she has to wear all day.

They do not have enough paper towels in the scrub room for doctors and nurses to dry their hands.

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Government PPE snatching is going on in many countries, not just US or Germany. As much as this is going on between countries, I'm wondering what the overall outcome will be as far as international relations.

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19 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Food for thought on the speed of the US response. I don’t always agree with Brit Hume, but he is someone I always stop and listen to nonetheless.

https://disrn.com/news/fauci-on-january-21-coronavirus-not-a-major-threat--not-something-citizens-of-us-should-be-worried-about

BF63ADE0-5107-4C4A-9607-85460DDB29FD.thumb.jpeg.1d48f9947c993497d8a3abafb0f0798a.jpeg
That was said January 24th.

 

The data was rather scant at that point. And we might have not messed up the testing. There are other possible routes than the ones we took. 

ETA: also, note the "right now." 

Edited by square_25
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3 minutes ago, Renai said:

Government PPE snatching is going on in many countries, not just US or Germany. As much as this is going on between countries, I'm wondering what the overall outcome will be as far as international relations.

I think borders and local manufacturing is going to make a comeback in a big, big way.  This is a huge blow to the globalists.

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Abbott Labs has shipped almost 200,000 of their 5 min rapid tests to 21 states by the end of the day yesterday.

APR 3 2020

We began distributing our rapid point-of-care COVID-19 tests for our ID NOW system on Tuesday, March 31. By the end of today we will have shipped more than 190,000 rapid tests to customers in 21 states. We're producing 50,000 tests every day now and we'll continue to ship daily to more customers in more places.

https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom/product-and-innovation/an-update-on-abbotts-work-on-COVID-19-testing.html

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2 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I think borders and local manufacturing is going to make a comeback in a big, big way.  This is a huge blow to the globalists.

That would be interesting. Probably largely automated, I would guess? I don't know a ton about this. This would probably make things more expensive, yes? 

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1 hour ago, regentrude said:

It is exactly like snatching the toilet paper from another customer who is waiting in line at the checkout (and handing the cashier an extra ten bucks so they let you cut in line). It's exactly the kind of behavior we would find despicable from another person.
The mask shipment ordered for Berlin was on the airport to be flown over when they swooped in and took it.

FWIW, Germany has more cases per capita than the US (1100 vs 840). So nope, no justification on that count either.

 

So it’s actually more like swiping toilet paper from the cart of someone with IBS. 

Orders in process should have been let go. In-process and future production could have been restricted to US use. Would have been much easier to do this nicely a month or more ago. 

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