wuhan - coronavirus

[SoCal_Bear]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

Question:

If a city’s mayor extends a SAH order til June 1, then the governor extends a SAH order til May 20, which applies to the city?

I’m pretty sure the residents and businesses of that city have to follow the later date, but need some backup. 

In practice, that happened here already in CA. Local restrictions trumped state when it was stricter. Just like how state restrictions trumped federal when it was stricter. This also happened in other states as well. Florida comes to mind when local jurisdictions took action before the state did.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by calbear

[SoCal_Bear]

White House announces 3 phase plan. Every state will have power over when their state begins to move through the process.

https://apnews.com/420a38ec14101eab70e07be367ee6422

[TravelingChris]

9 hours ago, Storygirl said:

Our public school district put out a message saying that teachers would still be grading and giving feedback on assignments. But that remote learning grades would not lower any student's GPA; they will base the course grade upon last quarter, if the student's grades drop. So students can improve their grades ( I think), but they won't be penalized if their grades get worse.

My kids could read this message on their Chromebooks, and maybe they did, but I did not bring it to their attention. I have one child who would decide that he didn't need to do any work any more, so I didn't want him to notice the policy. My other kids are doing fine grade-wise, so the policy doesn't impact them, anyway.

Now I can see that as a policy- but someone who was getting d;s or failing getting an A- that is ridiculous.  And it will end up hurting the better students when it comes to college admissions too since colleges will know about such awful policies and maybe discount those A's.

[BeachGal]

Ozone therapy is working well in Italy. They are now using it in 17 hospitals.

It was not used initially but when they did a trial on 36 patients who were about to be intubated, 35 who were given ozone treatments improved. Only one needed to be intubated.

They used ozone autohemotherapy where they removed about 7/8 cup of blood into a sterilized glass container and then bubbled in ozone gas for about 10" or so. Then, the blood was injected back into the patient. They did this several times. 

Because ozone gas is so unstable, it breaks down quickly into oxygen but a small amount of ozone remains. Often it's a mixture of 95-98% oxygen and 5-2% ozone. Provided it's not breathed in, it's very safe. It's an old treatment that was used before antibiotics.

Here is a translated article from Italy's La Repubblica:

https://www.repubblica.it/salute/medicina-e-ricerca/2020/04/06/news/coronavirus_l_ozonoterapia_evita_la_terapia_intensiva-253290022/?refresh_ce

Coronavirus, ozone therapy avoids intensive therapy

By Luana de Francisco

April 6 2020

Experimentation in Udine: out of 36 patients with pneumonia and respiratory difficulties only one was intubated. Treatment, associated with antivirals, reduces lung damage and slows inflammation. Describes the Amato De Monte protocol, the Englaro case doctor.

The most effective clinical response could come from ozone therapy in patients who have contracted Covid-19 and struggle to avoid hospitalization in intensive care. Proof of this are the results obtained from the trial launched at the Udine hospital, where out of 36 patients with pneumonia and breathing difficulties, only one was intubated: the others have all improved and some have even been discharged from the hospital.

The development of the protocol and the request to AIFA

The intuition to take advantage of the ozone therapy against coronavirus bears the signature of the director of the Department of Anesthesia and Resuscitation of the "Central Friuli" University Health Authority, Amato De Monte. The same who, in 2009, accompanied Eluana Englaro, in a vegetative coma for 17 years, on the path of gradual suspension of nutrition and hydration. Together with the infectious disease specialist Carlo Tascini, who directs the infectious diseases clinic, and a team of colleagues, he has developed a protocol that could revolutionize the approach to treatment and which, not surprisingly, has already attracted the interest of specialists all over Italy. It is precisely from the data obtained so far that the request for authorization from the Italian Medicines Agency and the Ethics Committee of the Spallanzani Institute in Rome started to proceed with a study on 200 Covid-19 patients. In order to aim at its recognition from the methodological point of view at the level of the international scientific community.

How the procedure works

The treatment of patients with ozone therapy associated with antiviral drugs has therefore shown a slowing of inflammation and a reduction of lung damage. The procedure requires 200 milliliters of blood to be taken from the patient, allowed to interact with the ozone for about ten minutes and then re-injected. So three or four times at most. In other words, the infusion of ozone helps to strengthen the body's response in the fight against the effects of the infection in progress.

Ozone therapy, moreover, in the Friuli hospitals of Udine and Tolmezzo is by no means a novelty. And in Italy, among those who practice and teach it for some time, not surprisingly, there is De Monte. "To be exact, since 1996," explains the primary, who is also a teacher at the ozone therapy course organized at the University of Siena by Professor Emma Borrelli, a student of Professor Velio Bocci, the first to bring the practice to our country. "Before the coronavirus broke out - reports De Monte - a study had already been approved at the hospital in Udine to use it on patients with vascular problems in the lower limbs. I know that in other hospitals it is being used in ICU. We too had started from there, but wrongly, because we realized that at that point it was too late for the importance of the damage caused to the lungs. It is so - he continues - that, together with colleague Tascini, we decided to see how it worked if applied early, on patients who risked being intubated, because with impaired breathing and already in ventilation with a helmet or CPAP ".

Improvements in three sessions

The result is there for all to see. "After only three sessions - continues De Monte - we have seen sensational improvements, with a decisive reduction in the need for oxygen support". In short, it is difficult to imagine that, in the face of these findings, the same cannot be obtained even on a wider audience of patients. In any case, in the worst case scenario the therapy does not work: there are no side effects. At this point, therefore, the difference could be the time factor. "The hope is to get an answer as soon as possible - concludes De Monte - because the more immediate its use, the greater the help we will be able to give."

Edited April 17, 2020 by BeachGal
added a sentence

[TravelingChris]

7 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 This makes sense. Family member needs to be “vetted” as not ill somehow. The whole thing boils down to needing millions and millions of tests, antibody testing, etc. It’s the only way to get this in better control.  It seems the asymtomatic carriers are many and will never know without testing.

And what is even worse is that it really does appear that some of these asymptomatic and long term presymptomatic people are unknowing Typhoid Mary types = super- spreaders.  And no one has yet figured out why and no one has yet figured out why some people are asymptomatic or even totally do not get the disease even with close contact with others who have it.

[BeachGal]

Ibiza is also using ozone autohemotherapy and getting good results.

https://theibizan.com/ozone-therapy-proving-successful-in-covid-19-patients/

The Nuestra Señora del Rosario Polyclinica in Ibiza is the first in Spain to use the Ozone technique in treating Covid-19 patients, with success.

In a press release the clinic said “Many patients who were about to be intubated and connected to mechanical ventilation have, thanks to ozone therapy, not only avoided it but improved to the point of not requiring oxygen with just a few treatment sessions.” 

The clinic also stated that they are seeing improvements in patients after just ‘2 or 3 treatment sessions’. Ozone therapy has the benefit of improving oxygenation at the tissue level and therefore reduces the inflammatory response suffered by patients.

Italy and China Trial Ozone

At the Santa María della Misericordia University Hospital in Udine, Italy, 36 patients with Covid-19 pneumonia who had respiratory failure were administered Ozone therapy. Only 3% required intubation compared to the usual 15%. There is a high mortality of intubated patients and given a fifth were spared intubation; it is an achievement to highlight. There are also four clinical trials underway in China and the provisional results could not be more hopeful.

Nuestra Señora del Rosario Polyclinic

“In Spain, only we have begun to administer it with the mandatory authorisation of the Quality Committee of the hospital centre, and the results have been spectacular,” says Dr. Alberto Hernández, Assistant Physician for Anaesthesia and Resuscitation at the Nuestra Señora del Rosario Polyclinic in Ibiza. “We have registered a clinical trial, but we need to tell the world that Ozone is a very effective and beneficial therapy in these patients and that we must immediately incorporate it into the treatment of these patients.”

Dr. José Baeza, President of the Spanish Society of Ozone Therapy and Vice President of the World Federation of Ozone Therapy, states that “given the absence of an effective treatment or a vaccine and in the context of the current health emergency ” All hospitalised patients should receive Ozone therapy as the clear benefit is evident, and Ozone therapy has no significant side effects.”

Approval

On April 4, the therapy was authorised for it’s first use at the Polyclinic. After presenting the potential benefits of Ozone therapy at a medical scientific session, the centre’s group of experts in Covid-19 infection: Drs Montserrat Viñals and Asunción Pablos, from the Internal Medicine service, Dr. Adriana Martín from the Service of Intensive Medicine, and Dr. María Victoria Velasco from the Emergency Service of the Nuestra Señora del Rosario Polyclinica in Ibiza, gave their approval to the protocol for the administration of Ozone in patients with Covid-19 presented by Dr. Alberto Hernández.

The First Patient

A 49-year-old man who had already required ICU admission was deteriorating on the ward. He had deteriorated to the point that he required oxygen at the highest concentration and yet it was oxygenating his lungs poorly. Intubation and connection to a ventilator was planned, but surprisingly, after the first session of Ozone therapy, the improvement was significant and oxygen requirements could be decreased.

Dr. Alberto Hernández explained that “the improvement after the first session of Ozone treatment was spectacular. We were surprised, his respiratory rate normalised, his oxygen levels increased, and we were able to stop supplying him with as much oxygen since the patient was able to oxygenate himself. To our surprise, when we carried out an analytical control, we observed how Ferritin, an analysis determination that is being used as a prognostic marker in this disease, not only had not followed the upward trend, but had decreased significantly; that decline continued in the following days. This result encouraged us to administer it to other patients who are following the same improvement as our first patient. “

We Will Help Other Hospitals

Dr. Hernández said “Let no one hesitate to contact us in order to establish the appropriate circuits and structure to be able to incorporate Ozone therapy as soon as possible in the different hospital centres that wish to do so.”

From the Polyclinic Group, Francisco Vilás, its CEO, pointed out that “we will be happy to contribute and help any hospital that asks us for help, in such exceptional circumstances as those we are experiencing that we can contribute to help in this unfortunate pandemic. Full of pride, we will make our human and technical resources and our experience with Ozone therapy available to those who request it.”

[TravelingChris]

10 minutes ago, calbear said:

White House announces 3 phase plan. Every state will have power over when their state begins to move through the process.

https://apnews.com/420a38ec14101eab70e07be367ee6422

This article makes it seem like the President is doing this.  It is the CDC's recommendations and there are specific health guidelines that need to be met in order to get to each stage.  As of today-- only three states could start level 1.https://www.npr.org/2020/04/16/833451041/watch-white-house-to-share-coronavirus-guidelines-on-a-path-to-reopening-the-cou

This article describes what are the criterias for getting to each level and also what each level means except it does leave out the medical procedures, etc resumption schedule that I heard Dr. Birx talking about at the White House briefing.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Question:

If a city’s mayor extends a SAH order til June 1, then the governor extends a SAH order til May 20, which applies to the city?

I’m pretty sure the residents and businesses of that city have to follow the later date, but need some backup. 

 

I would assume the later date—but would seek clarification from local powers that be. 

[Ausmumof3]

Bno: Wuhan, where the coronavirus pandemic began, revises death toll to 3,869, an increase of 50%

[Arcadia]

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 @Laura Corin

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-52294799/engineering-enthusiasts-3d-print-thousands-of-face-shields
“Groups and companies across Scotland are helping to provide personal protective equipment (PPE) to the NHS.

Among them is Edinburgh Shield Force, a club of engineering enthusiasts, who are 3D printing face shields for Scottish hospitals.

BBC Scotland's The Nine spoke to some of the volunteers who have already delivered thousands of visors.”

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Question:

If a city’s mayor extends a SAH order til June 1, then the governor extends a SAH order til May 20, which applies to the city?

I’m pretty sure the residents and businesses of that city have to follow the later date, but need some backup. 

June 1st to the city, which means other cities in the same state might end SAH on May 20th. 
 

Also the SAH orders may have different restrictions. Santa Cruz county which is not a hotspot is loosening their Shelter in Place restrictions for its residents. My county is a hotspot and has ban using our own reusable bag when buying things, among other restrictions.

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd@sassenach

https://abc7news.com/food/bay-area-produce-shortage-after-safeway-employee-dies-from-covid-19-complications/6109205/

“TRACY, Calif. (KGO) -- Bay Area residents are seeing a shortage in produce items at grocery stores, mostly at Safeway locations.

This comes the same week the grocery chain confirmed an employee at a distribution center in Tracy passed away from COVID-19.

Wendy Gutshall, Director of Public and Government Affairs for Safeway released this statement:

"Like many of our neighbors in Northern California, COVID-19 has touched our own Safeway family with confirmed diagnoses among our associates. We were saddened to learn that an associate at our Tracy Distribution Center has passed away due to complications related to COVID-19. Our hearts are heavy, and our thoughts are with that associate's family."

The statement also goes on to say "3% of our approximately 1,700 associates at the Tracy Distribution Center have tested positive for COVID-19."

Gutshall also released this statement to ABC7 News regarding why customers are seeing a produce shortage:
"The Produce Warehouse in the Tracy Distribution Center is running short on staff for a variety of reasons and requires us to streamline operations with the remaining team to ensure that our stores are still able to be supplied with the necessary order for our customers. The distribution center will run on the streamline operations structure for the time being, as they continue to secure additional resources."”

[iamonlyone]

Our daughter's college is in this county (although she is home now). I like the proactive data collecting they are doing:

"Johnson County has launched its $400,000 program expanding community testing in order to better collect data on the outbreak of COVID-19. The county is inviting hundreds of randomly selected residents, who are supposed to be representative of the population, to be tested at a drive-thru location.

"Meanwhile, Johnson County has also collected data about the coronavirus outbreak through an online survey, which was available last week. Areola said more than 72,000 people responded, with about 1.5% reporting that they might have symptoms.

"In addition to testing randomly selected residents, this week the county is starting to expand testing for nursing home staff and clients, as well as front-line workers, such as grocery store employees, delivery drivers and first responders."

Full article: https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article242010356.html

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by iamonlyone

[ElizabethB]

It is interesting to me that many of the treatments being considered have been around for a long time.

Plasma since 1934.

https://www.history.com/news/blood-plasma-covid-19-measles-spanish-flu

Hydroxy chloroquine, 1950's, is a safer version based on the older chloroquine (1934).

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/20/chloroquine-past-and-present

Ozone therapy has been around for 150 years, Tesla was involved! 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312702/

Ivermectin was first used in 1981, the story of its discovery is interesting.

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/ivermectin-mectizan.html

And, grandmas have been pushing vitamin D in its cod liver oil form forever.

Edited April 17, 2020 by ElizabethB

[Storygirl]

13 hours ago, Storygirl said:

The nursing home called my dad when they had a staff member test positive. They called him back yesterday with the results for my mom (negative). Our state has also added a chart online that lists how many cases are in every nursing home that has cases, so I was able to look it up and see that my mom's place has four cases.

I am not a primary contact for the nursing home, so the news comes through my dad. He is not, unfortunately, the best at communicating, so I get some of my information from my sister, who gets it from Dad or sometimes hears from the nursing home staff herself (she is the second contact person, since she lives in my hometown, and I do not).

Our state is now requiring nursing facilities to contact families if there is a positive case, but that is a new guideline. Our Governor stated that he made this decision based not on privacy laws, but on what he thinks is decent and what he would want if he had family in a nursing home. But they did have to run it by the lawyers, I think, so it took a few days to go into effect.

Quoting myself in order to update. My response above was to indicate how I learned the information, and I learned more information just now. This time, it was by reading an online story in the local paper, which states that the information published on the state website was outdated by the time it was put up. There are 8 cases at my mom's nursing home, not just four. There are 35 residents (a specific fact I did not know), and 4 are positive, with 4 staff positive. They have set up a special wing for the positive people, and the same staff will always work with them. A concerning fact is that 3 of the 4 residents have shown no symptoms yet, which indicates how hard it is to detect and prevent the spread.

My dad and siblings will no doubt read this in the paper, too. I don't know how much of this was shared with my dad on the phone, but I suspect that there is more info in the paper than he was told (he tends to not ask questions).

My mom lives in the skilled nursing section, but there are many more residents at that facility in assisted living quarters and in independent houses on the grounds. It sounds like they have only tested those in skilled nursing so far. The families of those in skilled nursing were notified by phone, but I don't know if they also shared the information with the people in the other sections of the facility. Maybe? Since the nursing home was closed to the public, the residents of the other sections have not been allowed in to the nursing home part, so hopefully it has been contained to the one building.

In this case, it seems that the virus was accidentally brought into the facility by a staff member.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Storygirl

[EmseB]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Bno: Wuhan, where the coronavirus pandemic began, revises death toll to 3,869, an increase of 50%

Given the size of the city and what we know now about how long they let it spread before lockdown, it seems like an increase of 1000% would be more realistic.

[EmseB]

60% of the 600 positive cases on the USS Teddy Roosevelt are asymptomatic so far.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/uss-theodore-roosevelt-sailors-coronavirus-asymptomatic

[lewelma]

The goal of elimination is on target in NZ.

8 new cases today with 4200 symptomatic people tested. All 8 were were in known clusters (family of confirmed cases).

Random community testing has started in areas with clusters. First set of 300 asymptomatic people was done at a grocery store in a 'hot spot', and found 0 cases. 

800 of all 1400 cases have officially recovered. 

All kiwis returning from overseas are in 14-day supervised quarantine. 

Current strict lockdown in effect until Thursday at the earliest. The date when we enter a looser lockdown (but still a lockdown) will be announced on Monday.

Crossing fingers.

Edited April 17, 2020 by lewelma

[Laura Corin]

3 hours ago, Arcadia said:

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 @Laura Corin

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-52294799/engineering-enthusiasts-3d-print-thousands-of-face-shields
“Groups and companies across Scotland are helping to provide personal protective equipment (PPE) to the NHS.

Among them is Edinburgh Shield Force, a club of engineering enthusiasts, who are 3D printing face shields for Scottish hospitals.

BBC Scotland's The Nine spoke to some of the volunteers who have already delivered thousands of visors.”

Great!

I heard from my friend who is an intake triage nurse practitioner on the Covid ward at the big hospital in our county. She's not very busy. Even in Glasgow, which is the Scottish hotspot, I haven't heard of the hospitals being overwhelmed. As in a lot of other places, I suspect that low population density is helping, along with social distancing. The situation in care homes is only going to get worse though 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Laura Corin

[sassenach]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd@sassenach

https://abc7news.com/food/bay-area-produce-shortage-after-safeway-employee-dies-from-covid-19-complications/6109205/

“TRACY, Calif. (KGO) -- Bay Area residents are seeing a shortage in produce items at grocery stores, mostly at Safeway locations.

This comes the same week the grocery chain confirmed an employee at a distribution center in Tracy passed away from COVID-19.

Wendy Gutshall, Director of Public and Government Affairs for Safeway released this statement:

"Like many of our neighbors in Northern California, COVID-19 has touched our own Safeway family with confirmed diagnoses among our associates. We were saddened to learn that an associate at our Tracy Distribution Center has passed away due to complications related to COVID-19. Our hearts are heavy, and our thoughts are with that associate's family."

The statement also goes on to say "3% of our approximately 1,700 associates at the Tracy Distribution Center have tested positive for COVID-19."

Gutshall also released this statement to ABC7 News regarding why customers are seeing a produce shortage:
"The Produce Warehouse in the Tracy Distribution Center is running short on staff for a variety of reasons and requires us to streamline operations with the remaining team to ensure that our stores are still able to be supplied with the necessary order for our customers. The distribution center will run on the streamline operations structure for the time being, as they continue to secure additional resources."”

I was at Safeway today and the produce was plentiful except for salad greens. They almost completely wiped out (I did manage to get a large spring mix). Otherwise everything was fresh and abundant. The store felt much less chaotic than the last time I shopped there, which was 2-3 weeks ago. 
 

I wipe down and wash every single thing I bring home. 

[ElizabethB]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

60% of the 600 positive cases on the USS Teddy Roosevelt are asymptomatic so far.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/uss-theodore-roosevelt-sailors-coronavirus-asymptomatic

That is really high.  It is also a younger, thinner, and healthier population than average, but still a very high asymptomatic rate.  

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/03/covid-19s-death-toll-appears-higher-than-official-figures-suggest 
the text isn’t pasting correctly but if you follow the link you need and email top one is Bergamo 

Deaths per 100,000 people per week, selected regions

Region’s normal death rate

Confirmed covid-19 deaths

Excess deaths not attributed to covid-1

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Given the size of the city and what we know now about how long they let it spread before lockdown, it seems like an increase of 1000% would be more realistic.

Yes I’m sure it’s much higher.

bbc dude on twitter noted they released the higher figures the same day as the bad economic figures.  Maybe they realised people would question whether destroying the economy had been worth it so they needed to report more 

[Laura Corin]

I just called my mother's care home in Scotland.  They are doing fine - no cases.  They have all the PPE they need for the moment: the local Rotary Club helped them out with sourcing masks and the local schools (probably the Design and Technology teachers) have been bulk 3D printing visor headbands and combining them with plastic sheets to make effective disposable visors.  Care homes don't fall under the NHS (coordination between the two sectors is a long-term issue that has been a political hot potato for decades).

[Ausmumof3]

NEW: Russia reports 4,069 new cases of coronavirus and 41 new deaths, a daily record

[Ausmumof3]

Only one new case in my state today.  They are doing a two week testing blitz where testing is basically open to anyone with even mild symptoms who want a test. I’m feeling quite positive and cautiously hopeful at this stage.

[Ausmumof3]

On 4/16/2020 at 5:49 PM, CAJinBE said:

I was wondering the same thing about the nursing home staff. If they are coming and going, the virus is probably going both ways as well. My mom is in a senior living, not nursing home, and she can't go anywhere or see relatives except they will allow her to see people at a distance outside recently. But the staff doesn't live there and she sees them every day. I know they are distancing and she doesn't receive any direct care, but there are still germs around everywhere. They are also making her food and delivering it to her door. I know they are trying their best under difficult circumstances, but this along with many other things about this virus mitigation doesn't make sense. 

 

On 4/16/2020 at 12:53 PM, Harriet Vane said:

 Re visitors in nursing homes

I have given this a great deal of thought as my beloved father-in-law is staying with us for now. He has dementia. He had originally chosen a graduated care facility near my sister-in-law, but the shelter-in-place orders went into effect and we asked him to visit with us rather than transition into a new setting in which he would be confined to his own quarters without being able to see any of us.

The staff at nursing homes come and go each day. When they leave the facility, they interact with their families, who may have been to different workplaces all day themselves. They might go to the store or put gas in their cars or they may make poor choices on social distancing. Every single person who goes in and out of an extended care facility represents a danger of infection.

So if you refuse admittance to family members, you actually do NOT reduce the risk of infection, but you do substantially increase the risk of abuse because there are no concerned family members who will see bruises, who will notice theft, who will see neglect. Refusing all visitors places an extremely vulnerable population exclusively into the hands of people who are not nearly as motivated to protect them as their own family members are.

So I think, in the long run, emphasizing masks and hand washing and allowing a limited number of approved visitors access to loved ones will increase safety, ease the anxieties of isolation and lockdown for elderly residents, and will not significantly add to the infection risk.

Yes it’s not a straightforward decision.  My dads brother is in a nursing home and he’s not really likely to see the year out.  It feels pretty tragic that he might pass away without seeing his wife or children in a couple of months.  Maybe some risks are just worth taking.  And then he has a huge family which means not even all his kids would be able to attend a funeral with current laws.  But then you have to balance the needs of other residents of course.

[Ausmumof3]

Artania cruise ship crew member becomes Australia's youngest fatality 😞 

(AAP)

A 42-year-old man from the Artania cruise ship died at Royal Perth Hospital. The Filipino is the first person under 50 in Australia to die due to coronavirus.

It brings the number of COVID-19 deaths in WA to 7.

WA Health Minister Roger Cook said the man was put in touch with his family before he died.

"His family have been notified, and were put in contact with that crew member via translators and the shipping company," he said.

"They were able to reach out to him in his dying days.

"My thoughts and sympathies are with his family and friends, and fellow crew members, at what must undoubtedly be a very difficult time for them."

The Artania has been docked at Fremantle port for weeks, and has been at the centre of a standoff with state and federal authorities.

WA Premier Mark McGowan had previously demanded Artania leave Australian waters, but the crew sought to remain for a further two weeks.

The majority of the ship's foreign passengers were flown to Europe on charter flights, but hundreds of crew remained on board.

The ship has previously been given a deadline by the Australian Border Force to leave Fremantle port by tomorrow.

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, EmseB said:

60% of the 600 positive cases on the USS Teddy Roosevelt are asymptomatic so far.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/uss-theodore-roosevelt-sailors-coronavirus-asymptomatic

 

 

2 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

That is really high.  It is also a younger, thinner, and healthier population than average, but still a very high asymptomatic rate.  

I wonder if they are early in the infection and will later become symptomatic.  One thing that’s kind of positive with asymptomatic carriers I guess is it hugely lowers the case fatality rate.  But then it makes it harder to detect and contain.

[Carrie12345]

I need to get this off my chest. And let me preface by saying I do hope that all the fishiness  with China gets ironed out. The whole world needs to better understand what went down.

That said, why are we (primarily USA, but not just USA, though I’m going to speak USA-centric since I lost the bandwidth to keep close tabs on other countries) so hell-bent on talking about our testing/tracking/tallying so darn positively??? Obviously I mean as an entity and not individually.  “The best” does not mean adequate in this situation. I may be the best cook in my house, but that doesn’t  necessarily make me any good.

It’s getting really old (to me) to hear about other countries’ failings while we’re trying to make sense of our own stuff, like deaths at home/care centers, deciding how to categorize causes of death, restricting testing, etc., etc.  It’s complicated, no doubt, but that just means (to me) that it was even more complicated in the very beginning, with or without cover ups and/or egregious errors.

I just wish “we” would put less emphasis on comparing ourselves to crummy stats and focus on improving our own.

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I need to get this off my chest. And let me preface by saying I do hope that all the fishiness  with China gets ironed out. The whole world needs to better understand what went down.

That said, why are we (primarily USA, but not just USA, though I’m going to speak USA-centric since I lost the bandwidth to keep close tabs on other countries) so hell-bent on talking about our testing/tracking/tallying so darn positively??? Obviously I mean as an entity and not individually.  “The best” does not mean adequate in this situation. I may be the best cook in my house, but that doesn’t  necessarily make me any good.

It’s getting really old (to me) to hear about other countries’ failings while we’re trying to make sense of our own stuff, like deaths at home/care centers, deciding how to categorize causes of death, restricting testing, etc., etc.  It’s complicated, no doubt, but that just means (to me) that it was even more complicated in the very beginning, with or without cover ups and/or egregious errors.

I just wish “we” would put less emphasis on comparing ourselves to crummy stats and focus on improving our own.

I started following a few Chinese news sources in the early days when I was trying to figure out what was going on.  There’s a fair bit of propaganda coming out now from there denigrating other countries responses and praising chinas which is a tad obnoxious given how it seems to have started.  So I think maybe it’s a pushback against that.  But yes overall focusing on our own response moving forward is going to be way more productive.

[TravelingChris]

7 hours ago, Arcadia said:

June 1st to the city, which means other cities in the same state might end SAH on May 20th. 
 

Also the SAH orders may have different restrictions. Santa Cruz county which is not a hotspot is loosening their Shelter in Place restrictions for its residents. My county is a hotspot and has ban using our own reusable bag when buying things, among other restrictions.

I was at a Church women's conference last year and the speaker was talking about a lot of things but mentioned saving our planet and using reusable bottles all the time, reusable bags for groceries, etc.  I had to explain to people that I can't use reusable bags for groceries because of my immune issues. I also mentioned that I use plastic water bottles too again because of health.  There were some people who derided me for not caring about the environment--- and I didn't really defend myself - although I do the responsible things for the environment that I can- not litter, if i have disposable gloves around-  pick up other's litter, recycle, and support various environmental groups through donations.

[TravelingChris]

6 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

It is interesting to me that many of the treatments being considered have been around for a long time.

Plasma since 1934.

https://www.history.com/news/blood-plasma-covid-19-measles-spanish-flu

Hydroxy chloroquine, 1950's, is a safer version based on the older chloroquine (1934).

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/20/chloroquine-past-and-present

Ozone therapy has been around for 150 years, Tesla was involved! 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312702/

Ivermectin was first used in 1981, the story of its discovery is interesting.

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/ivermectin-mectizan.html

And, grandmas have been pushing vitamin D in its cod liver oil form forever.

Another one being tested is nitric oxide with promising results in people people being intubated.   That one has been around too for quite a while and is used with preemie babies.

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

That is really high.  It is also a younger, thinner, and healthier population than average, but still a very high asymptomatic rate.  

At that is not necessarily a good thing - I mean it is for them, of course, but it probably means that there is a high percentage of asymptomatic younger people and children (who seem to be almost all asymptomatic) and once we open up- they will be the vectors for new diseases potentially since they won't know they are spreading the disease.

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I think there's now decent evidence that the infection fatality rate is a percent or somewhat smaller. But then that was pretty much what people were guessing to begin with. 

The deaths over confirmed cases worldwide is 6.7 pc right now.  For a one percent would that mean there would have to be roughly 7 times as many cases as we have confirmed?  And no extra deaths.  If 50-60 pc of cases are asymptomatic and a high percentage have mild symptoms that don’t lead to people getting tested that probably makes sense.  I seem to remember early days WHO suggesting cfr of 2 pc but that’s different to IFR anyway.

[Ausmumof3]

https://mobile.twitter.com/davidasinclair/status/1247604925338652673
 

good thread with questions and answers relating to specific studies etc

mentions statins, ibuprofen, IFR<1pc, flu vaccine, DRACOs

ons

[Lanny]

Yesterday, DW told me that one of her nieces was upset because she couldn't get an appointment with a doctor in the Obligatory Health Plan, for her DS.  That doctor passed away, this week, because of the Covid-19. The web page I am looking at this time is showing 144 deaths in Colombia. Population is approximately 50 million.

On a related front, DW told me yesterday that there was a new Decree, on 15 April 2020, and the ban on International flights has been continued, until they establish regulations. For example, I believe they will not permit the Middle seats in the Coach cabins to be occupied. This affects our DD because she has a ticket to fly from the USA to Colombia during the first half of May 2020. I am not sure at this time if they will begin to allow International flights to/from Colombia before the date of her reservation or not. If not, she needs a "Plan B" and to "Shelter in Place" in the USA.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I need to get this off my chest. And let me preface by saying I do hope that all the fishiness  with China gets ironed out. The whole world needs to better understand what went down.

That said, why are we (primarily USA, but not just USA, though I’m going to speak USA-centric since I lost the bandwidth to keep close tabs on other countries) so hell-bent on talking about our testing/tracking/tallying so darn positively??? Obviously I mean as an entity and not individually.  “The best” does not mean adequate in this situation. I may be the best cook in my house, but that doesn’t  necessarily make me any good.

It’s getting really old (to me) to hear about other countries’ failings while we’re trying to make sense of our own stuff, like deaths at home/care centers, deciding how to categorize causes of death, restricting testing, etc., etc.  It’s complicated, no doubt, but that just means (to me) that it was even more complicated in the very beginning, with or without cover ups and/or egregious errors.

I just wish “we” would put less emphasis on comparing ourselves to crummy stats and focus on improving our own.

I totally feel the same way. And I am so disappointed that this crisis, too, is now politically factionized. I mean, I guess it always was, but now it’s depicted as the Rights-Centric-Open-the-Economy people vs. the “Cower-In-Place” Bleeding-Hearts. WHY does EVERYTHING have to become a political issue? The constant boastful white-washing by He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named is absolutely *horrible* for the country. 

[sassenach]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/03/covid-19s-death-toll-appears-higher-than-official-figures-suggest 
the text isn’t pasting correctly but if you follow the link you need and email top one is Bergamo 

Deaths per 100,000 people per week, selected regions

Region’s normal death rate

Confirmed covid-19 deaths

Excess deaths not attributed to covid-1

 

What I noticed in the US data is that overall deaths are down compared to an average year. I think sheltering is probably preventing auto deaths, flu deaths, and maybe even heart attack deaths because of all the additional sleep (there are less heart attacks after the fall time change, for example). 

Edited April 17, 2020 by sassenach

[vonfirmath]

3 minutes ago, sassenach said:

What I noticed in the US data is that overall deaths are down compared to an average year. I think sheltering is probably preventing auto deaths, flu deaths, and maybe even heat attack deaths because of all the additional sleep (there are less heart attacks after the fall time change, for example). 

 

:( They may be down overall, but in my circle of acquaintances they are up. I normally don't hear of any and we've had two over the last two weeks. My sister's husband's uncle and a former's teacher's husband (Though Mrs. Bump stated this was caused by the stress of working to put his classes (He was a teacher at Houston Community College) online.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

 

I think there's now decent evidence that the infection fatality rate is a percent or somewhat smaller. But then that was pretty much what people were guessing to begin with. 

If I’m working it out right for the infection rate to be 1pc there must be over 14,000,000 cases globally.  1.4 million in the Uk.  Over 3.4 million in the US.  

 

[Ausmumof3]

13 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

😞 They may be down overall, but in my circle of acquaintances they are up. I normally don't hear of any and we've had two over the last two weeks. My sister's husband's uncle and a former's teacher's husband (Though Mrs. Bump stated this was caused by the stress of working to put his classes (He was a teacher at Houston Community College) online.

I wonder if there could be a drop (people staying home, less car accidents, trauma, eating out) followed by an increase due to stress for financial reasons, loneliness relationship issues.

i think for a lot of people the first couple of weeks of stay at home orders are a kind of much needed breather but after that we need to figure out how to make life work in different circumstances 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Matryoshka]

21 minutes ago, sassenach said:

What I noticed in the US data is that overall deaths are down compared to an average year. I think sheltering is probably preventing auto deaths, flu deaths, and maybe even heat attack deaths because of all the additional sleep (there are less heart attacks after the fall time change, for example). 

Huh. Do you have a citation for that?  I find that really odd, especially since other countries (especially Italy, as cited above) are seeing practically a doubling of deaths over the past year.  Do we normally have so many auto deaths vs Italy?  That seems unlikely - they drive like maniacs there. 😉  Also doesn't seem like suicide deaths or things like that would be down - everyone's been predicting those would go up with stay-at-home...  I saw that NYC has had something like 4x the rate of fatal 911 calls recently over past years data.  That also doesn't seem to indicated that overall deaths are down, but the very much the opposite.  Maybe this reflects parts of the country where Covid hasn't really hit yet???  That might make more sense... if Covid isn't spreading (yet) in many areas so it isn't increasing deaths there, then other deaths would be down and make the overall number lower?

Edited April 17, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Matryoshka said:

Huh. Do you have a citation for that?  I find that really odd, especially since other countries (especially Italy, as cited above) are seeing practically a doubling of deaths over the past year.  Do we normally have so many auto deaths vs Italy?  That seems unlikely - they drive like maniacs there. 😉  Also doesn't seem like suicide deaths or things like that would be down - everyone's been predicting those would go up with stay-at-home...  I saw that NYC has had something like 4x the rate of fatal 911 calls recently over past years data.  That also doesn't seem to indicated that overall deaths are down, but the very much the opposite.  Maybe this reflects parts of the country where Covid hasn't really hit yet???  That might make more sense... if Covid isn't spreading (yet) in many areas so it isn't increasing deaths there, then other deaths would be down and make the overall number lower?

It would also fit with the stories of really quiet emergency rooms.  A kind of calm before storm scenario.

[Laura Corin]

Coronavirus: world's biggest trial of drug to treat Covid-19 begins in UK

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/world-biggest-drug-trial-covid-19-uk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Laura Corin

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Yeah, I think there are vast undercounts on the numbers of cases. Practically no one is testing anyone but the sickest people. 

I think Iceland and New Zealand would be the ones to watch for accurate CFRs. 

Taiwan, which took action very early, and only had something like 369 deaths, is another one to look at and they probably have studies there.

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Taiwan, which took action very early, and only had something like 369 deaths, is another one to look at and they probably have studies there.

The deaths/cases for Taiwan is around 1.5pc.  So a lot lower than European countries etc.

[TCB]

I agree that the politicizing of this is coming from both sides of the great US divide. It amazes me and makes me extremely sad that even in a pandemic people feel they have to take sides - maybe I’m just naive - I have the impression that in previous times of hardship like the World Wars etc people pulled together - but maybe that’s just romantic nonsense.

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I totally feel the same way. And I am so disappointed that this crisis, too, is now politically factionized. I mean, I guess it always was, but now it’s depicted as the Rights-Centric-Open-the-Economy people vs. the “Cower-In-Place” Bleeding-Hearts. WHY does EVERYTHING have to become a political issue? The constant boastful white-washing by He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named is absolutely *horrible* for the country. 

What white washing"???? That happened months ago.  What I really hate is that most of the media go and have a very biased viewpoint and keep making it seem like the WH is trying to kill people.  That is so far from the truth  and the responsible governors have praised the WH responses often.  There are responsible govs and non responsible governors.  It does not seem to be based on party at all.  Neither does the open it up or be careful, and slowly open up.  BUt the thing I hate is the House of Representatives is not going to be in session until May 4th and the money for the small businesses ran out yesterday.

And the CDC plans seems the best and is totally centric--- after 2 weeks of declining health stats, you can go to level 1- then you need 2 weeks more of declining health stats to go to level 2 then you need 2 more weeks of good stats to go to level 3.  If at any time at any level the COVID stats start to climb again, you have to go up at least one level, depending on health circumstances.  I am super glad they made this plan because it not only opens up some businesses with a lot of social distancing, cleaning and masking requirements, it opens up so-called elective procedures- first in outpatient facilities in level 1, I believe.  But I was listening and watching Dr. Birx give the presentation and she said there was a lot more to it but it was not up as of early this morning.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by TravelingChris

[Wheres Toto]

34 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Huh. Do you have a citation for that?  I find that really odd, especially since other countries (especially Italy, as cited above) are seeing practically a doubling of deaths over the past year.  Do we normally have so many auto deaths vs Italy?  That seems unlikely - they drive like maniacs there. 😉  Also doesn't seem like suicide deaths or things like that would be down - everyone's been predicting those would go up with stay-at-home...  I saw that NYC has had something like 4x the rate of fatal 911 calls recently over past years data.  That also doesn't seem to indicated that overall deaths are down, but the very much the opposite.  Maybe this reflects parts of the country where Covid hasn't really hit yet???  That might make more sense... if Covid isn't spreading (yet) in many areas so it isn't increasing deaths there, then other deaths would be down and make the overall number lower?

I think that is what it has to be.  Because deaths definitely aren't down in NYC/NJ.