UPDATE: Birth Certificate - without knowing exact location of birth?

[Jenny in Florida]

UPDATE: I finally managed to speak to a human being at the state department of health/vital statistics, and they tell me that we don't need to drive to Jacksonville. The local county office should be able to issue a copy on the same day even without knowing the details of city/county where she was born. Now, having been around the track a few times with government offices, I won't actually believe it is that easy until I see a copy of the document in her hands, but at least we can try that first.

ORIGINAL POST:

We are going on a cruise at the end of this month, taking our son and his girlfriend with us. Three of us have passports, but his gf does not. The info from the cruise line indicates that she will be okay with government ID and a certified birth certificate . . . which would be great if her parents were willing to hand over her birth certificate. (Don't get me started on the parental thing; I seriously do not understand their deal.)

Gf asked her parents for her birth certificate and has been repeatedly stalled and challenged about why she needs it. Two weeks ago, when there was still time to order the document online, I sat down with the gf to place the order, but it turned out that the application required her to list the county, city and hospital in which she was born, and she didn't know any of that info. (I thought it was weird, but it occurs to me that my son probably couldn't rattle off that info for himself, either. Of course, he wouldn't be afraid to ask me, but that's not the point.)

As of tonight, her parents are still stalling and being coy about where the document might be, so we have decided to just road trip to Jacksonville (about 2.5 hours each way) to try and take care of this in person. If we knew for sure even what county she was born in, we might be able to do less driving, but, there you go.

My question is: If she shows up in person with the government ID, will the state department of health be able to process the application and find the document if she doesn't have the location information? Has anyone encountered this?

Edited April 8, 2019 by Jenny in Florida

[Jean in Newcastle]

I find it strange that she wouldn’t know where she lived as an infant. Even if my kids didn’t know the hospital (they do) there are only five choices in this metropolitan area and a couple of hours work should come up with the answer. Is that kind if thing a possibility for her?  Could she ask a grandparent?  Other extended family?

[Tap]

Call the office you plan to drive to and ask. In our state, some things are done by the county office and some in the state office.  

She doesn't know what city she was born in? I can understand hospital, but at her age (teens/20s?) , I would assume she would know the city just from hearing it, or seeing it on forms. If she has a baby book at home or any new born baby memorabilia, that may contain clues too.  

If her parents have hid this from her, she may be able to piece it together. Try Googling the parents names. I know my address from 20 years ago comes up if you Google my name. That may give her some clues to start with. 

[happypamama]

The state where we had one of our children does not issue an actual BC; you just get a notice that it was recorded, and you have to actually request the BC. We were able to go to the processing place in any county in the state, not necessarily the one where he was born, and get one printed in just a few minutes. I can't remember what info we actually needed, but you might see if you can get it in your county. 

[KidsHappen]

Well if you are talking about Jacksonville, FL it only has one county, Duval. So you would already have the city and county. That should be all you need. They should be able to pull the info from the county register. 

[Junie]

I'm wondering if there is information on the birth certificate that the parents don't want their daughter to know. 

You might want to prepare yourself to help her through any surprise information that she might find. 😞

Edited April 8, 2019 by Junie

[klmama]

Just now, Junie said:

I'm wondering if there is information on the birth certificate that the parents don't want their daughter to know.  😞

That's my thought, too.

[Ellie]

1 hour ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 Two weeks ago, when there was still time to order the document online, I sat down with the gf to place the order, but it turned out that the application required her to list the county, city and hospital in which she was born, and she didn't know any of that info. (I thought it was weird, but it occurs to me that my son probably couldn't rattle off that info for himself, either. Of course, he wouldn't be afraid to ask me, but that's not the point.)

That's weird that she had to list all of those, especially the hospital. Not everyone is born in a hospital. Must be a Florida thing. 😞

[Jenny in Florida]

36 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

Well if you are talking about Jacksonville, FL it only has one county, Duval. So you would already have the city and county. That should be all you need. They should be able to pull the info from the county register. 

 

Jacksonville is where the state's Bureau of Vital Statistics is, not where she was born. 

If we knew which county she was born in, we could go to the health department in that county, instead of driving all the way to Jacksonville.  

[Farrar]

I wonder if she was a homebirth and they never filed for her. In which case, she really might be in trouble, especially if they're not willing to help her clear it up. They won't issue her a birth certificate if they can't find a record of her birth. Was she homeschooled? Like, has she accessed other institutions over the years? I assume she's an adult, right? Is this a control thing on their part?

[Jenny in Florida]

1 hour ago, Tap said:

Call the office you plan to drive to and ask. In our state, some things are done by the county office and some in the state office.  

She doesn't know what city she was born in? I can understand hospital, but at her age (teens/20s?) , I would assume she would know the city just from hearing it, or seeing it on forms. If she has a baby book at home or any new born baby memorabilia, that may contain clues too.  

If her parents have hid this from her, she may be able to piece it together. Try Googling the parents names. I know my address from 20 years ago comes up if you Google my name. That may give her some clues to start with. 

 

I plan to call them in the morning, but I was wondering, in the meantime, whether anyone here had any helpful info.

By the way, I just tested my theory by asking my son where he was born. He had the state right, but wasn't even close on the city or county. I did make a point of telling him the correct information and making him repeat it to me, along with a story about the quirky reason his actual birth happened in that city rather than the one in which we lived at the time, in hopes that will help him remember it. But, yeah, he didn't know the info, despite the fact that we've never made any attempt at all to hide it from him and that he has seen and held a physical copy of his birth certificate in his very own hands.

Oh, and Goggle isn't any help. Her surname is one so common that it is used to represent common last names, and neither of her parents' first names (nor hers) are in any way unusual. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Jenny in Florida

[Jenny in Florida]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I find it strange that she wouldn’t know where she lived as an infant. Even if my kids didn’t know the hospital (they do) there are only five choices in this metropolitan area and a couple of hours work should come up with the answer. Is that kind if thing a possibility for her?  Could she ask a grandparent?  Other extended family?

 

Let's just say that her family situation is not ideal. There is no one she can think of to ask. 

And, no, she doesn't know where she lived as a baby. Her family moved around a lot. No way to really narrow the field that we can imagine.

[Loowit]

Would her doctors records have the information about which hospital she was born?

Knowing the town you lived as an infant may not be helpful,  but is a place to start. My kids were not born at our local hospital because I didn't like it. They were all born about an hour away. My kids all know now what city they were born in but they didn't a few weeks ago when we were talking about it. It is important information to know. It is needed for a passport and I have been ask at border crossings what city I was born in.

[Jenny in Florida]

38 minutes ago, Junie said:

I'm wondering if there is information on the birth certificate that the parents don't want their daughter to know. 

You might want to prepare yourself to help her through any surprise information that she might find. 😞

 

I wondered about that, too. I don't want to get into too much detail, but I suspect the withholding has more to do with much more mundane family issues based on some resentment about other things and is an attempt to assert some control.

[Tap]

7 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

I just tested my theory by asking my son where he was born. He had the state right, but wasn't even close on the city or county. I did make a point of telling him the correct information and making him repeat it to me, along with a story about the quirky reason his actual birth happened in that city rather than the one in which we lived at the time, in hopes that will help him remember it. But, yeah, he didn't know the info, despite the fact that we've never made any attempt at all to hide it from him and that he has seen and held a physical copy of his birth certificate in his very own hands.

It seems like something people would just know, but I guess if they were born in an area with multiple towns close together, or an unusual occurrence, it does make sense that they wouldn't know. I know my older kids know where they were born and dd12 knows too. But, they are cities where they lived, so it makes it easier.  As my kids grew up, they filled out school/doctor and other forms and I told them the info they didn't know. That way they would learn the information and get experience filling out forms. 

The state office should be able to help her, but I would call first to ask what information she needs to bring with her to get the certificate. When dd and I got copies of marriage/birth cert last year, they both required different documents as proof of who we were. 

[Jenny in Florida]

17 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I wonder if she was a homebirth and they never filed for her. In which case, she really might be in trouble, especially if they're not willing to help her clear it up. They won't issue her a birth certificate if they can't find a record of her birth. Was she homeschooled? Like, has she accessed other institutions over the years? I assume she's an adult, right? Is this a control thing on their part?

 

We know that a birth certificate exists, because they had to provide one when she registered for college a couple of years ago.

And, while I can't speak for the parents, yes, I do believe it is a control thing.

[Jenny in Florida]

12 minutes ago, Loowit said:

Would her doctors records have the information about which hospital she was born?

Knowing the town you lived as an infant may not be helpful,  but is a place to start. My kids were not born at our local hospital because I didn't like it. They were all born about an hour away. My kids all know now what city they were born in but they didn't a few weeks ago when we were talking about it. It is important information to know. It is needed for a passport and I have been ask at border crossings what city I was born in.

 

Well, until a few months ago, she also hadn't been to see a doctor in a good eight or more years. 

Like I said, not an ideal situation.

[Jenny in Florida]

1 hour ago, happypamama said:

The state where we had one of our children does not issue an actual BC; you just get a notice that it was recorded, and you have to actually request the BC. We were able to go to the processing place in any county in the state, not necessarily the one where he was born, and get one printed in just a few minutes. I can't remember what info we actually needed, but you might see if you can get it in your county. 

 

You can go to the health department in the county in which you were born or go to the state office to access records from any county.

[Tap]

Just now, Jenny in Florida said:

 

You can go to the health department in the county in which you were born or go to the state office to access records from any county.

This is how it is in our state too.

[Catwoman]

Why is she afraid to ask her parents where she was born, or to tell them that if they don’t give her the birth certificate, she will have no choice to get one on her own?

This is very confusing. 

[Catwoman]

54 minutes ago, Junie said:

I'm wondering if there is information on the birth certificate that the parents don't want their daughter to know. 

You might want to prepare yourself to help her through any surprise information that she might find. 😞

 

52 minutes ago, klmama said:

That's my thought, too.

 

Same here. This is very odd. 

[Jenny in Florida]

21 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Why is she afraid to ask her parents where she was born, or to tell them that if they don’t give her the birth certificate, she will have no choice to get one on her own?

This is very confusing. 

 

As I've said a couple of times, the family situation -- and her relationship with her mother, in particular -- is not idea.

[Catwoman]

21 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

As I've said a couple of times, the family situation -- and her relationship with her mother, in particular -- is not idea.

 

Yes, but unless the relationship is downright hostile, it still shouldn’t be a big deal for a young adult to ask her parents for her birth certificate, and I find it extremely odd that she isn’t even comfortable asking them where she was born. 

[gardenmom5]

if she knows the state - she should be able to get the BC at the state health dept.  I needed BC's, and just went to the state health dept.  I've never had to provide hospital information.

 

the fact the parents are being so coy - I would consider a flag that something is hinky.  it could be as simple as they're controlling jerks, or to the extent of she doesn't have one because they never filed.  (are they anti-gov't types?  we've seen cases where parents are so antagonistic to the government, they homebirth and don't file a BC.)

[EmseB]

2 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

We know that a birth certificate exists, because they had to provide one when she registered for college a couple of years ago.

And, while I can't speak for the parents, yes, I do believe it is a control thing.

Does the college have a copy on file in her records?

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

Why is she afraid to ask her parents where she was born, or to tell them that if they don’t give her the birth certificate, she will have no choice to get one on her own?

This is very confusing. 

it sounds like she has asked - but the parents aren't willing to tell her.

 

3 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

Gf asked her parents for her birth certificate and has been repeatedly stalled and challenged about why she needs it.

 

[Liz CA]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Yes, but unless the relationship is downright hostile, it still shouldn’t be a big deal for a young adult to ask her parents for her birth certificate, and I find it extremely odd that she isn’t even comfortable asking them where she was born. 

 

What seems odd is that most kids at a fairly young age want to know what town/city they were born in. I sincerely hope that it is "just" a control issue on the parents' part and not something they should have shared with her a long time ago.

[Carrie12345]

Huh. I don’t know that I could tell you the city I was born in, but I know it wasn’t the town my parents lived in. (Though I could look it up because I remember the hospital name b/c it’s distinctive.) None of my kids lived in the city/town they were birthed in. Two were born over the state border, lol. I doubt most of them would guess correctly.

But the secrecy is worrisome. I hope it all works out for her!

[Ottakee]

I would also have her call the college.  If they can email her a copy you will know who to contact.

I also agree that there may be stuff on the birth certificate they don't want her to know...adoption, different birth father or ???

[Lanny]

7 hours ago, Junie said:

I'm wondering if there is information on the birth certificate that the parents don't want their daughter to know. 

You might want to prepare yourself to help her through any surprise information that she might find. 😞

 

+1 for this.  It looks like there is something the parents are hiding from her. Was she adopted?  Was she born outside the USA and is not a U.S. Citizen because her parents were not qualifying U.S. Citizens and unable to transfer U.S. Citizenship to her.?    Or, born outside the USA and neither of her parents were U.S. Citizens?

Does she have a Social Security Card?  If not, why not?

Yes, OP, you need to prepare her that there may be a huge surprise for her when she gets this information.

For many reasons, she needs to have a copy of her Birth Certificate, not just now, but for other things in the future, including proving that she is a U.S. Citizen.

Good luck to her!

[Bambam]

Do the parents not want the girl to go on the cruise with you guys? How old is gf? 

So, the girl has asked her mom and her dad for the birth certificate and they won't give it to her? That seems like a very poor relationship - or very controlling parents. 

Didn't she have to have it to get her DL? I don't remember having to submit it for college admission (but we are in a different state). 

I'd have her call the state office and ask if she can come and obtain a copy and what information/proof of identify does she need to have to obtain a certified copy? There is no way I'd drive that far without knowing that info and making sure I had everything I needed. 

[Pink and Green Mom]

Let me throw this out there to you - if you are leaving the country within a certain amount of time (I think it is a month) you can apply to get same day passports in Miami.  We did that when we went on a cruise because my children were adopted from overseas and we didn't want to send irreplacable paperwork through the mail to get a passport in the normal way.

While we were there we encountered all kinds of people applying for US passports without having vital documents like their birth certifcate (one couple had no BC for thier newborn and proved their child was a US citizen based on a Facebook posting announcing the birth - I kid you not).  I'm just throwing it out there saying it may be worth a call to the passport agency to find out what you can do if a birth certificate isn't possible to obtain.  You do have to book your appointment in advance (we had our appoinments at 9 am and left Miami with passports in hand around 3 pm).

[RootAnn]

My DH didn't know the city of his birth until after our marriage. (There were two possibilities of hospitals & he didn't know which one they chose.) 

My oldest wasn't sure the city of her birth when asked a confirming question recently by an official who had a copy of her birth certificate in front of her. She knows the state she was born in, but the hospital wasn't in a city we lived in or mentioned regularly. (Think something like Minneapolis-St Paul where we always shorted it to Minn. & never mention St Paul. Except much, much smaller/less heard of.)

I don't think any of my other kids could tell you their city of birth despite us pointing out which hospital they were born in when we've driven by them. Of course, they all have access to their BC and we would tell them the info if asked.

I'm another one wondering how she got governmental ID without a BC - or did the parents provide it for that & squirrel it away again?

Good luck today! I'd be concerned she wasn't born in state so your trip might not be fruitful. . . 

[Wheres Toto]

Sounds very odd.  The birth certificate, common last name (fake?), and moved around a lot brings weird scenarios to my mind, but I have a strong imagination.

My oldest could tell you the hospital she was born at but would probably need to look up the town.  My other two probably couldn't tell you at all.  They were not born at any of the hospitals closest to where we live (there's no hospital in our town but one about 3 miles away).  The one they were born at is in a different county.  To get copes of birth certificates in the past we had to contact that county office.

[maize]

It's possible you could have put unknown for at least the hospital name on the form and they would have found the certificate for you. I imagine not knowing the name of the hospital you were born in is common.

I think my oldest knows what city she was born in because it is the city we lived in and we talk about it though she was only a few months old when we moved out of state. My others know which state they were born in but I doubt any of them know which city--for most it is not the same as where we lived and I don't think all of them even know the name of the town we lived in when they were born, we moved around within a larger metropolitan area. To be honest I'd have to look up which city my last three were born in--I know the name of the hospital but we're in an area where towns run right into each other and that hospital is near the boundaries of three. I think I know which it falls into but am not 100% sure. 

[Lanny]

I have  read the other replies and I agree that  the parents are very controlling. Also, the parents and their daughter have a very poor relationship. I have always known the city and the name of the hospital where I was born. Since I was a boy, but that may be unusual, from some of the responses here.

Does she have a Social Security Number?   

There are just so many reasons why she needs to have a copy of her Birth Certificate and know this information. Now and in the future.

ETA: If she was not born in a hospital, but was born in the USA, she is a U.S. Citizen but she will need to prove that.

At this time, what proof, if any, does she have that she is a U.S. Citizen? 

Did she and her parents file the FAFSA form for Financial Aid?  

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Lanny
add ETA

[Beth S]

My great-grandmother learned she was adopted when applying for her Marriage License . . . .

[Jenny in Florida]

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Yes, but unless the relationship is downright hostile, it still shouldn’t be a big deal for a young adult to ask her parents for her birth certificate, and I find it extremely odd that she isn’t even comfortable asking them where she was born. 

 

She has asked for the birth certificate. She has been repeatedly put off and challenged about why she needs it. 

I'm not going to get into a lot of personal details about the situation on a public forum, and I'm not sure what point you are trying to make challenging me about the why of it. I agree with  you that it "shouldn't" be a big deal, but the relationship is what it is.

[Jenny in Florida]

2 hours ago, Bambam said:

Do the parents not want the girl to go on the cruise with you guys? How old is gf? 

So, the girl has asked her mom and her dad for the birth certificate and they won't give it to her? That seems like a very poor relationship - or very controlling parents. 

Didn't she have to have it to get her DL? I don't remember having to submit it for college admission (but we are in a different state). 

I'd have her call the state office and ask if she can come and obtain a copy and what information/proof of identify does she need to have to obtain a certified copy? There is no way I'd drive that far without knowing that info and making sure I had everything I needed. 

 

Well, from what I understand, they are not super excited that she is going with us. She is an adult, however, and is making her own choice.

She doesn't have a driver's license, but does have a state ID. On the occasions when she has needed to provide a birth certificate, one or both parents have been with her, have produced the birth certificate and then put it away again.

We have decided to put off the trip until later in the week while she tries another couple of avenues, but we are making calls today to make sure we are prepared in case we do need to make the drive to the state office.

[Jenny in Florida]

2 hours ago, Pink and Green Mom said:

Let me throw this out there to you - if you are leaving the country within a certain amount of time (I think it is a month) you can apply to get same day passports in Miami.  We did that when we went on a cruise because my children were adopted from overseas and we didn't want to send irreplacable paperwork through the mail to get a passport in the normal way.

While we were there we encountered all kinds of people applying for US passports without having vital documents like their birth certifcate (one couple had no BC for thier newborn and proved their child was a US citizen based on a Facebook posting announcing the birth - I kid you not).  I'm just throwing it out there saying it may be worth a call to the passport agency to find out what you can do if a birth certificate isn't possible to obtain.  You do have to book your appointment in advance (we had our appoinments at 9 am and left Miami with passports in hand around 3 pm).

 

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

I do know that if you have overseas travel booked, there is an option to do a rush service on passports. Once we have a birth certificate in hand, we might help her do that just so she is prepared and won't have to go through anything like this in the future.

[unsinkable]

If I was the GF, I'd be searching the house for my own birth certificate. Fire box, files, drawers with other papers. I'd look in purses & wallets, too. 

My kids know where theirs are, and other vital documents, in case they need them when I'm not around. But then my kids know they can go in my pockets (I don't use a purse in winter) to get money or my bank card in an emergency. Mi bank card es su bank card. My parents were the same way, and they had their issues. LOL

There might be some big secret on her BC, or her parents might just be jerks.

[Jenny in Florida]

2 hours ago, RootAnn said:

I'm another one wondering how she got governmental ID without a BC - or did the parents provide it for that & squirrel it away again?

Good luck today! I'd be concerned she wasn't born in state so your trip might not be fruitful. . . 

 

When necessary, her parents have produced the document and then put it away again.

We've actually decided to delay a couple of days. GF is sick and wants to try one more time with her parents before we commit to five plus hours in the car.

But, yes, I have the exact same concern about her possibly not being born in this state at all.

[scholastica]

This might be a long shot, but since she knows her parents names, can she do one of the records search options out there now? There are free and paid options. I'm not too familiar with how they work, but it's just a thought.  They sound very controlling and unhealthy, but if they are still supporting her, she's somewhat at their mercy. I agree to start looking for it in the house, like a PP said. 

[Jenny in Florida]

15 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

If I was the GF, I'd be searching the house for my own birth certificate. Fire box, files, drawers with other papers. I'd look in purses & wallets, too. 

My kids know where theirs are, and other vital documents, in case they need them when I'm not around. But then my kids know they can go in my pockets (I don't use a purse in winter) to get money or my bank card in an emergency. Mi bank card es su bank card. My parents were the same way, and they had their issues. LOL

There might be some big secret on her BC, or her parents might just be jerks.

 

Honestly, I think the possibility of her getting caught searching the house is at least as problematic as going "behind her parents' back" to get a copy of the birth certificate for herself. Either way, this is likely to be unpleasant. I'm just trying to support this young woman and make getting our ducks in a row for this cruise as low-stress as can be managed under the circumstances.

The trip is supposed to be, in part, a celebration of my son's 21st birthday, and I'm struggling with feeling angry and resentful and frustrated about how difficult this situation has become. My poor husband, who is already being treated for anxiety, has been worrying about the ID situation for weeks. So, while I will admit to being baffled by the gf's parents' response to what should be a simple, normal, no-big-deal request, I am too busy trying to insulate my husband from the drama and reassure him that it will be taken care of while also not putting any pressure on the gf to aggravate an already difficult relationship with her parents to be able to devote a lot of energy to that aspect of things.

I'm still hoping we'll be able to take care of this soon and with little enough pain and upset that we can all move on to focusing on looking forward to the trip.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Jenny in Florida

[unsinkable]

I hope it works out. I think it is wonderful that you are trying to help her and are taking her on the trip.

Is this the same GF that your DS lived with for a bit? Or at least stayed over at her house? Maybe I'm mixing things up. But if he did, it seems unusual that her parents would be lenient in that sense but balking about providing her the info and BC she needs.

[Jenny in Florida]

16 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I hope it works out. I think it is wonderful that you are trying to help her and are taking her on the trip.

Is this the same GF that your DS lived with for a bit? Or at least stayed over at her house? Maybe I'm mixing things up. But if he did, it seems unusual that her parents would be lenient in that sense but balking about providing her the info and BC she needs.

 

Yes, same gf. Like I said, weird and less than ideal situation.

[Pen]

10 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

We know that a birth certificate exists, because they had to provide one when she registered for college a couple of years ago.

And, while I can't speak for the parents, yes, I do believe it is a control thing.

 

Someone else has probably said this but get the registration record from college- it probably lists city of birth.  That may be enough to get bcert even if hospital not known, or homebirth

[Pen]

10 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

 

We know that a birth certificate exists, because they had to provide one when she registered for college a couple of years ago.

And, while I can't speak for the parents, yes, I do believe it is a control thing.

 

Someone else has probably said this but get the registration record from college- it probably lists city of birth.  That may be enough to get bcert even if hospital not known, or homebirth

ditto dmv to try to get info from her id

If she has a social security card , the numbers on them relate to where they were issued—though that may not represent birthplace...   but again may be a way to track down information 

[Jyhwkmama]

Can she go to the college and ask to look at her file? Maybe they have a copy.

[Jyhwkmama]

Just now, Pen said:

 

Someone else has probably said this but get the registration record from college- it probably lists city of birth.  That may be enough to get bcert even if hospital not known, or homebirth

ditto dmv to try to get info from her id

If she has a social security card , the numbers on them relate to where they were issued—though that may not represent birthplace...   but again may be a way to track down information 

Yes. SS cards have a code.  For those born before 2011, it can tell you state of origin:
https://www.lavasurfer.com/info/socialsecurity.html