Isabella Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Hi all, My first grandchild (boy) is due in several weeks. I'd love to get a gift for him that will be special. Not clothes or toys that will be thrown out after a year or two. Any ideas? I don't have any set price in mind. It's more important to get something special, than to fit a price range. Any help appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Haba pacifier clips are my absolute favorite useful babyshower gift: http://www.habausa.com/products/baby-toys/pacifier-chains-and-clips.html  I'm not big into special keepsake gifts as a mom, to be honest. Any given to me by my family or friends would have just made me feel guilty for letting them collect dust or regifting them. We aren't sentimental and don't have much space. The only exceptions I can think of are hand knit or crocheted blankets. Like, everything else is fair game for chucking. A really clever useful gift for that season of life was so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 My parents got each of my kids a full set of coins from the mint for the year they were born. The kids now think that's cool. We also got a crocheted blanket from my close friend's mother for each kid that they still have years later. I'm trying to think of anything else....I like things kids can use and not just throw in a closet as a momento so blankies work well for that. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Also congrats on the upcoming grand baby! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieJ Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I make crochet afghans and then I sew flannel burp vloths and blankets. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Frog Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I always associate special blankies or lovies with a grandma. I would think something hand made, like a baby quilt or blanket, would be appropriate. Of course, I'm not a grandma yet, so I'll yield to others with more experience if they have other suggestions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 My maternal grandma made each grandchild a quilted blanket out of leftover cloth so each grandchild has a unique blanket. We used them well into adulthood as "security blanket". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy the Valiant Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Books! Â Special ones that form the beginning of a library! <3 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 No suggestions, but CONGRATULATIONS!!! Â :party: :party: :party: :party: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryMak07 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 My grandma gave my son a lovely wooden train where each letter is a train piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 How about a Christmas stocking? I think it'd be sweet to receive them from grandma. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Maybe a small cedar chest to store keep sakes or some art for the nursery. A glider would be good, as a Pp mentioned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Haba pacifier clips are my absolute favorite useful babyshower gift: http://www.habausa.com/products/baby-toys/pacifier-chains-and-clips.html  I'm not big into special keepsake gifts as a mom, to be honest. Any given to me by my family or friends would have just made me feel guilty for letting them collect dust or regifting them. We aren't sentimental and don't have much space. The only exceptions I can think of are hand knit or crocheted blankets. Like, everything else is fair game for chucking. A really clever useful gift for that season of life was so much better. I understand your reasoning! My daughter doesn't have much room, and also a minimalist. She loves the idea of things that will last a lifetime. Hence something special that will last is what I'm looking for. :-)   My parents got each of my kids a full set of coins from the mint for the year they were born. The kids now think that's cool. We also got a crocheted blanket from my close friend's mother for each kid that they still have years later. I'm trying to think of anything else....I like things kids can use and not just throw in a closet as a momento so blankies work well for that. :) Very cool idea re. the coins, but I think my daughter would think there is no purpose. Loved the crocheted rug idea if I could crochet. i don't think it'd be the same if I commission someone else to do it?   Also congrats on the upcoming grand baby! :) Thankyou!! So exciting.   I make crochet afghans and then I sew flannel burp vloths and blankets. Awesome. I wish I could. I could see that would be special.  Do his parents already have a nice chair/glider for his room? They don't, and I've suggested that, but I get the feeling my daughter would rather get it herself. I'm trying to gauge when to step back, or step up, regarding this new baby and all that!  I always associate special blankies or lovies with a grandma. I would think something hand made, like a baby quilt or blanket, would be appropriate. Of course, I'm not a grandma yet, so I'll yield to others with more experience if they have other suggestions. Yes, I think so too. But don't know how it would be if I didn't make it myself, and I don't have too many skills there!   My maternal grandma made each grandchild a quilted blanket out of leftover cloth so each grandchild has a unique blanket. We used them well into adulthood as "security blanket". How wonderful. That is so special. Wish I had the time/skills to do that!  Books!  Special ones that form the beginning of a library! <3 Yes, this is what I had thought of, too. Do you have any book rec's? I would love some really special well-written books. :-)  No suggestions, but CONGRATULATIONS!!!  :party: :party: :party: :party: Thank you, thank you! I'm super excited!  My grandma gave my son a lovely wooden train where each letter is a train piece. This sounds lovely. I will look at some online. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 How about a Christmas stocking? I think it'd be sweet to receive them from grandma. What a cute idea. Maybe a great idea for his first Christmas. That might give me a chance to make it and put his name and birthyear on it.  Congrats!  Something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Grandma-Tell-Your-Memories-Heirloom/dp/1563834138/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487383679&sr=8-1&keywords=grandmas+memories That is precious. I've already started a journal of his mum's pregnancy and all that's happening in preparing for his arrival, and will continue it on through the years so that it can be a running record of all of our lives (in brief of course!).  My mother-in-law gave us a "Baby's First Christmas" tree ornament for each of our kids that has the date and a place for a baby picture. That was nice because Christmas ornaments are the one form of decorative stuff I actually keep. This is also a nice idea for a christmas pressie each year.  Maybe a small cedar chest to store keep sakes or some art for the nursery. A glider would be good, as a Pp mentioned. They have a small house, but I will certainly ask my daughter if this would fit. It's a nice idea. I have already got a piece of art for his nursery wall. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I like the ornament idea. You could even get him one each year!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junie Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I think a teddy bear or some other stuffie (maybe your favorite animal) would be a lovely gift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianCat Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) I think offering to pay for a chair or glider for the baby's room would be a very nice gesture. Â Â Â Some small things that were meaningful to us from our kids' grandparents: Â Â My MIL bought DD a plaque for her bedroom wall when she was born. Â It wasn't overly babyish, but it fit the decor of her bedroom, and when we moved into our current house (when DD was 5), it didn't fit the decor of DD's new bedroom, but did look nice in our laundry room. Â MIL passed away about a year and a half ago, and I see that plaque every time I leave my house through the laundry room, and it makes me smile because it's bright and cheerful. Â So it's special to me, as well as DD. Â If DD ever wants it back for her room, or when she moves out of the house for college or as an adult, she is welcome to take it to remember her Mema. Â My mom used to do a lot of cross stitching, so when DS was born, she gave him a little stuffed teddy bear (she made sure it was washable) with his name cross stitched onto a little apron. Â He slept with it all the time, and it was very special to him. Â When I was pregnant with DD and we found out we were having a girl, she made him a "sister bear" (because we didn't have a name for DD until after she was born). Â Â Then when DD was born, she gave her two bears, one with her name and one with DS's name. Â Those little bears were SO well loved! Â I have them packed away now that both kids are "too old" to sleep with stuffed animals, but will never throw them out. Â Congratulations on your grandbaby! Edited February 18, 2017 by SebastianCat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianCat Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 My mother-in-law gave us a "Baby's First Christmas" tree ornament for each of our kids that has the date and a place for a baby picture. That was nice because Christmas ornaments are the one form of decorative stuff I actually keep. I don't remember which relative gave DS a "Baby's First Christmas" ornament, but one thing to keep in mind is that your grandson will NOT always be a baby and won't always enjoy a very babyish looking ornament. Â That particular ornament never gets unboxed at Christmas time, because my DS is now 14 and hates it. Â I would recommend for a grandson that you pick something fairly neutral and not babyish, keeping in mind that he won't be a baby forever. Â Â Some ideas for a baby boy would include the family's favorite sports team, or an ornament that can hold a baby picture, or an ornament for the city where they live, or just a generic looking ornament that can be engraved with "____'s First Christmas." Â I think the one that was given to my DS is pink and has a very feminine looking baby on it, and I don't blame him for not wanting to display it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applethyme Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I like pretty story books. Llama, Llama series, Father Bruce, Silly Sally, Chicka Chicka Boom Boom are all favorites in our house. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrips Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 How about a letter to him? One he will open when he's older and treasure? Maybe with some family history including stories of his parent and you? And your first thoughts of him? Â And silk trimmed baby blankets are a lifetime keepsake in our family. Always nice to snuggle up with in the car, bed or sofa. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I got big things from our parents for my kids. We had twins first, my mom got us one crib and my inlaws bought us a double-stroller. Our second baby, my mom got us a baby backpack carrier and my inlaws got us a three tier basket thing that I saw in a store to use as a "dresser" (which I still use as a dresser for youngest dd). Last baby, inlaw side contributed towards a Bob stroller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Do his parents already have a nice chair/glider for his room?  I second the chair idea. Shortly after my first was born and I realized how many hours I was going to be holding/rocking/nursing baby, I went out and picked out a Lazyboy rocker/recliner for my nursery that was just the right size and comfort level for me. It stayed in the nursery for those first baby years and then went into our main living area for reading, snuggling, rocking sick kids, etc. I tried to send it out the door when my oldest moved out and you should have heard the protests. Many happy memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 We bought a crib for our first grandchild (with consultation with the parents to be sure it was what they wanted), and that has been very much appreciated. Â Another idea: start your grandchild's college fund - that's a gift that will keep on giving!! Â Anne 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in SJ Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I got a set of these for my first (actually 2 sets) and used them every year for all the kids:  https://www.amazon.com/Reed-Barton-Childrens-Giftware-CANDLE/dp/B000WA3X2K/ref=pd_bxgy_201_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=HKTS3VZ4Z2EQR4SES8ZG  They are small, they come in a tiny box that can sit in a drawer, they dress up a cake or cupcake enough to be special & my kids loved picking out their animals every year.  For book recommendations I enjoy giving the Sandra Boynton board books or  "I Love You As Much," and "My Love Will Be With You." by Laura Kraus Melmed.   Amber in SJ   2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) I know it sounds cliche, but each of ours were given a silver spoon. Not literally silver, but really nice stainless, long-handled baby spoons. They look like mini iced teas spoons. they were actually useful to feed babies, and I have used them for years with condiments or with demitasse/espresso cups. Happy baby memories and reminders to pray for my young adults every time I glimpse one in the silverware drawer. I hope maybe one day a grandchild or two will use his or her parent's spoon. Â ETA one also got a handsome little stainless steel julep cup - a baby mug, Deep South style. Still have that and can't wait to pass it along to the next generation. Edited February 18, 2017 by Seasider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecropia Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Books! Â Special ones that form the beginning of a library! <3 Â With a little handwritten note on the inside cover. Â Whenever we read a certain book to our children we see Grandma's note and read it first, and we all have Grandma in mind :001_smile: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 How about a photo book https://www.shutterfly.com/photo-books  Include parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins? Baby pictures of parents, childhood homes? You can add captions. Sign up for emails or look around the website, there are always massive coupons, today there are 40%- 50% off books, so never order at full price :)  And CONGRATS!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdrinca Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Do his parents already have a nice chair/glider for his room? Â This! An heirloom-quality rocking chair would be a special gift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Since a lot of times on these threads parents say books, that's something that would last for years if the baby doesn't chew/tear it up first. You could do a recordable book where you are reading it. It would obviously have to be handled by Mom and Dad so as to not get damaged. Â I'm into practical gifts myself, but we did buy a few recordable books a few years ago and one this past Dec. to have the grandparents record their voices on them. We got them at Hallmark. They are all Christmas books, but others might exist. Â When ds was born my parents got us a glider we wanted and my inlaws got us a heavy duty stroller. Ds is 8 now and we still have both. I used the stroller a few days ago with dd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 We have a Nuna Leaf; it's quite durable, babies love it, and it supports up to I think 140 lb, so our older kids like to sit in it and rock too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Congratulations!  I'm thinking through all the things I still have that my son was given when he was born...he's 21.5.  :0). And I keep too much stuff, for what that is worth.   A really sweet teddy bear. A hardback collection of books you love (I'm thinking Narnia, LotR...) that might get read much later. A hardback book that will be a good bedtime book for a few years. A totally sweet handmade (by you or someone else) item of clothing that can become a generational keepsake. A savings bond.  (Yes.) A family portrait session with you in it. A digital picture frame that pictures can be sent to via email.  One from you and one for you.  So happy for you!  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Congratulations! Â I am an older mom so I made several friend's babies keepsakes before my dc's were born. The most popular appear to be quilts which I made fairly large in bright colours, more lap size. A couple are still moving around with the adults that own them. Others have worn out but were loved. Â I did cross stitch birth announcements too. Those lasted awhile on walls but I think are all put away. Â U 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) Congratulations! Â How about something practical like a portacrib? Â A foldable crib that you can take traveling, and to grandma's house. Â :) Â When we got ours, I felt like it was the handiest thing I'd ever owned! Edited February 18, 2017 by J-rap 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joules Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 My mother-in-law gave us a "Baby's First Christmas" tree ornament for each of our kids that has the date and a place for a baby picture. That was nice because Christmas ornaments are the one form of decorative stuff I actually keep. Â My mother started a tradition where she gave ornaments to each of the grandchildren each year for 21 years. She lovingly picked out something that would appeal to that grandchild each year, so they were all different and meaningful. Â She passed when the last grandchild was 14 (my ds) and the oldest was 34. Â Those ornaments are ds's most prized possession and the one thing that he owns that is in the "emergency evacuation" stash (with photos and documents and such.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 A Comfort Silkie with his name embroidered and a stack of books. Any favorites your daughter had as a little girl would be nice. Quick as a Cricket and We're Going on a Bear Hunt were two favorites of my boys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I wouldn't simply assume that all clothes/toys/blankets will be thrown out, especially if they were a special gift from grandma. If it's not too large and very pretty/cute, there's a good chance it will be kept. It's the big gifts that take up a lot of room that get harder and harder to keep over the years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Thanks, everyone, you've given some wonderful suggestions, and ones that will be of use for first Christmas and first birthday, too.  I talked to my daughter this afternoon, and she agreed that a glider would be great, but she hadn't wanted to agree before because she didn't want me to spend too much. I told her I'd love to, so we've agreed on that, and she also loved the idea of some special books to begin his library, especially with a little note from Grandma in the front of it.  We were also planning already to start up a savings account for him that we will deposit a smaller amount weekly, and then extra on his birthdays etc. His parents will be doing one for him, too.  Thanks also for all your congratulations and good wishes. We are all very excited to meet him and love on him! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavender's green Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 When I had my third baby a little over a year ago, I felt like we already had all the toys and keepsakes in the world, but I really wanted her to have something special, something that could be played with, stored for years, and then passed on. Tall order. But I found the perfect thing at the birth center's boutique. A hand-turned wooden rattle. There are 3 separate pieces (the main shaft plus two rings that move around it and against each other to rattle) but it's all carved out of one piece of wood; very elegant-looking. I like that it's nice and small and won't take up much room in her baby box. The man who makes them was one of the birth center's first births, way back when. Now he's a woodworker/artist and whenever he sees a fallen hardwood tree on the side of the road, he take some of the wood and makes these rattles for the birth center to sell, as a way to give back to them. You probably won't find this exact same item, but if you look around at baby boutiques, art fairs, and farmer's markets, you might find something with a neat backstory. Â Another idea...my babies and toddlers love nesting dolls. It's a lot of fun to choose the perfect set for someone! And it's a non-babyish item. There are even sets that tell a story through the pictures as you open them. Really fun to way interact with a little person. Â I also like the idea of nice sets of read-aloud books. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadtheworld Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Congrats on the grand baby!  What about a share of stock? A company I found on google, http://www.giveashare.com/unique-gift-ideas.asp?recipient=Kids, lets you buy a share of places like Disney and even has various framing options so it could be a cute piece of wall art too.  Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I think if you want to get a memento gift for the grandchild you should keep it yourself and give it to them when they are old enough. Don't stick the parents with the burden of storing and keeping track of the thing for years. That's not a gift, that's a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Silver engraved bank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Thanks, everyone, you've given some wonderful suggestions, and ones that will be of use for first Christmas and first birthday, too.  I talked to my daughter this afternoon, and she agreed that a glider would be great, but she hadn't wanted to agree before because she didn't want me to spend too much. I told her I'd love to, so we've agreed on that, and she also loved the idea of some special books to begin his library, especially with a little note from Grandma in the front of it.  We were also planning already to start up a savings account for him that we will deposit a smaller amount weekly, and then extra on his birthdays etc. His parents will be doing one for him, too.  Thanks also for all your congratulations and good wishes. We are all very excited to meet him and love on him!  A few years down the road my mom bought my son a small lookalike rocker for a Christmas gift. He loved it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 A gorgeous wooden cradle -- one that is of a quality to be handed down for generations, but newly made so you know the finishes are safe and it's up to modern safety standards? I'd have loved that. Swoon.  My mom gave our first born a beautiful, substantially large, painting. It's a Noah's Ark themed work (which was the theme of her nursery, as well). I would guess we'll have it in the family forever, as I can't imagine discarding it.  A silver baby spoon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) Savings for college or the future. People used to do savings bonds. I don't know what they do now. Edited February 18, 2017 by Janeway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Savings for college or the future. People used to do savings bonds. I don't know what they do now.  Educational IRAs (Coverdell Accounts) are what my mom did. Gave us checks, and then we deposited to our kid's account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamanthaCarter Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I treasure the little engraved silver baptism cups my mom and dad got us for our babies. <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 With a little handwritten note on the inside cover.  Whenever we read a certain book to our children we see Grandma's note and read it first, and we all have Grandma in mind :001_smile:   Oh!!!! You can get a personalized Sandra Boyton book!!!!! We have one for our daughter and she LOVES it still. It has her name and picture added to the story. SaveSave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Thanks, everyone, you've given some wonderful suggestions, and ones that will be of use for first Christmas and first birthday, too.  I talked to my daughter this afternoon, and she agreed that a glider would be great, but she hadn't wanted to agree before because she didn't want me to spend too much. I told her I'd love to, so we've agreed on that, and she also loved the idea of some special books to begin his library, especially with a little note from Grandma in the front of it.  We were also planning already to start up a savings account for him that we will deposit a smaller amount weekly, and then extra on his birthdays etc. His parents will be doing one for him, too.  Thanks also for all your congratulations and good wishes. We are all very excited to meet him and love on him!  I think that's perfect. My mother in law got me my glider, and that was 17 years ago. I still have it, and will be rocking baby number 4 in it sometime in the next month, when she makes her appearance. She's now my ex MIL< and we have had some...hard..times in our relationship, but I do think of her fondly every time I think about that chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocassie Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Pay for a newborn photo shoot or family pictures. Â Savings account. Â Handmade item - blanket, hat, outfit, etc. Â Bookshelf w/a few starter books. Â Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorien Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) It sounds like you've already thought of some things, but what about a piggy bank? My inlaws give each new baby a piggy bank for their first Christmas, and those banks are very much loved! The banks are all different, but the kids don't care. Savings accounts are great, but little kids need places to put pennies! Ă°Å¸Ëœâ‚¬  Eta: for books.... Nice hardback copies of The Adventures of Winnie the Pooh and Peter Rabbit? Edited February 18, 2017 by Lorien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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