ksr5377 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I realize the answer to this will vary from person to person, just trying to get an idea of what is average. Â We just moved from one of the largest cities in American to a farm, outside of a "city" of about 8,000. Â I have been able to find most of the activities that we are used to doing within about an hours in various directions. Â Due to the distance, we just won't be doing all of the things we used to do. Â However, I would like to be able to do some of our favorite activities. Â Is driving 45 minutes one way for a home school basketball team crazy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) We drive 30-45 mins, depending on traffic, and we aren't even rural. Suburban traffic in/around one of the US's largest cities, what can I say? In other words, I would drive 45 mins if it were an activity we valued. Â Eta: frequency of the event would come into play; once a week, yes. Twice a week, has to be a high value activity. More than that, it would have to be something seriously amazing. Likewise, ability to combine (ie, run errands while in town, etc.) would help make it worthwhile. Edited September 21, 2016 by TheReader 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I drive 40 minutes each way for our martial arts class, which is an hour. There are probably 20 others closer to me (at least 25 minutes away, nothing closer), but this teacher is worth the drive. We stack it with other quick errands/library, so it makes it worthwhile. And, three kids take the daytime homeschool class together, so that makes it more palatable to me. Â My big two also do an evening MA class once a week at the same place. Same drive, but their classes are back to back, so I leave them both there and have two hours to grocery shop by myself. Â I drive minimum of 20 for groceries, and 25 for better selection and prices, and 20 for library if they're not stacked with other errands. So 40 for an activity isn't too bad for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuzu822 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) We live in a small town in CNY, having just moved from the Syracuse area. We drive back to a Syracuse suburb for piano lessons every week. It's 40-45 minutes. Our teacher is amazing and then I can go to Wegmans. ;) We drive 20-30 minutes from home in the opposite direction for organ lessons, art classes at a local museum and institute, and other shopping. The Y, however, is only 10 minutes away and a decent library is 15. Â My husband's "regular" job is 45-50 minutes away, and his music jobs are 30-40 minutes. All in totally different directions from each other, of course. Â Our entire extended family on both sides is 8-12 minutes away, and that makes everything else more than worth it. :) Edited September 21, 2016 by Zuzu822 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beebug123 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 We moved to a rural part of the county in San Diego and I drive 65min (one way) one day a week for skating practice. We have activites every day of the week that require about 30 min driving, and between them some days I drive 3 hours per day. Plus add in the times there are traffic :( I do find that you get used to the driving very quickly and learn to make the most of it. My girls keep only books in the car and it has been a great way for them to build their reading skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
December Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 We have one weekly activity that we drive 45 minutes for, and then there will be various one off activities or doctor's appt, speech therapy, that all require driving about an hour one way. Â So I will end up driving that far about 3 days out of 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) nm Edited November 5, 2016 by cathey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I really don't like driving. I drove ds 45 min. each way to attend a 30 min. martial arts class one year. I hated that. It seemed like a waste. Afterwards we would sometimes run an errand/grab dinner but it didn't make it exactly worthwhile. When dh drove him they would often go grocery shopping afterwards, but that meant they would come in the house between 9-10pm. I was not a fan. Now that he's older the class would be longer so maybe more worthwhile, but it would meet twice a week instead of once and I can't commit to that. We were interested in theory, but practically speaking it just isn't possible at the moment. Â If I didn't have to drag a toddler everywhere I might be more open to driving for certain things, but still turned off by anything that meets more than once a week. So that pretty much outrules most sports between practices and games. Actually, we are trying private school this year and the transportation plan we had fell through so I'm driving him every.single.day and I hate it. Not 45 min. one way, more like round trip. Dh does drive sometimes, but it mostly falls on me because of his work schedule. I'm trying to see if there are closer things we could do like maybe Boys & Girls Club. Do you have any options like that? 4H? Â I think for me roads/routes affect my opinion on drive time. Like are we talking 45 min. interstate or back roads? Middle of no where or city? I have driven places where there was no where to stop for gas. I asked someone at the church where the nearest gas station was and they told me I was best going to the next town (?!). I just can't handle stuff like that. I worry about being stranded! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEmama Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 We live in a small town so not exactly rural, but yes I drive that regularly for classes and activities. Â When we lived very rural, I would have driven any length of time for any worthwhile activities at all (and did). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrittanyM Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I don't think it's unreasonable at all, but I live in a small town and have to drive 25 minutes just for the grocery store. I think you just have to prioritize what is important to you and decide how much you're willing to be gone. Right now we only do a homeschool co-op once a week and drive 45 minutes every other week for it since its at our house on the alternate weeks. After the beginning of the year oldest DD will probably be starting ballet though so that will add us driving half an hour once a week in. Â Â Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKWAcademy Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 We drive ~45 minutes one way for my daughter's gymnastics, three times per week. We pass several mediocre gyms to get to the good one. So far, although costing us an arm and leg, it's been worth it. I suppose next year it will be four times per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) We regularly drove 45 min - 1 hour each way, 2-3 times per week.  It was admittedly draining, particularly on the weeks that were 3 times.  We moved a tad closer to town, where the drive became 30-45 minutes.  It seemed much easier, although it doesn't sound like much.  ETA, only child, so it was just DD and me.  We actually did a lot of talking/bonding on those drives.  I kind of miss them now. :sad: Edited September 22, 2016 by goldberry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Ideally no more than 30, but I have done 45 minutes and an hour for special events related to an activity. That was Girl Scouts from last year, and this year we moved troops to be closer. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I realize the answer to this will vary from person to person, just trying to get an idea of what is average. We just moved from one of the largest cities in American to a farm, outside of a "city" of about 8,000. I have been able to find most of the activities that we are used to doing within about an hours in various directions. Due to the distance, we just won't be doing all of the things we used to do. However, I would like to be able to do some of our favorite activities. Is driving 45 minutes one way for a home school basketball team crazy? I don't really live rurally by any definition but some of our providers are 45-ish minutes away in good weather, as are grandparents and church. We drive it 2-3 times a week and it doesn't bother me, but we will be moving closer since there is no good reason not to. Â It can be pricy if you do a lot of other driving but if you combine errands and trips it's certainly not insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Everything is about 25 minutes from me but there is one big thing I do weekly that is 45 minutes. Once a week is my limit for most weeks, unless there's something really special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 We  go 30 -45 minutes one way for ice skating, and did that also for homeschool co-op. But I try to keep it to twice per week max, and as we have gotten to know more people sometimes my ds can get rides with others.  I don't think it is crazy to go 45 min one way for a basketball team if it is really important to your family and you are up to doing it.   I'd suggest seeing if there isn't something closer that your kids can join though. Here homeschoolers can join the public school for sports or they can join a rural sports program that has a mix of public and homeschool kids. I know that can differ a lot from place to place, but there may be opportunities nearby that you have not been aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaVT Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I'm kind of rural. We live 5 minutes outside the capital of VT, but it's a really little capital and we have to drive everywhere. We drive 45 min each way once a week for a few activities in Burlington. Other days we typically stay within a 20 or so minute drive to things (tennis, swim, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 One big factor here is driving in Jan - March, when the snow and ice are bad. Many homeschoolers reduce their activities in the winter, but ramp up again in the spring. Or they drive to the local ski hill and ditch some other activities in winter.  I don't think I'd want to drive 45 - 60 minutes for every single activity, but for a special activity once a week it would be fine. I think 20 - 30 min is closer to what is normal for me (suburbs of a 1 million person city with pretty decent non-rush hour driving). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 We do 90mins each way once a week, a great teacher, right around the corner from my best friend's house. We take the day to visit friends and do excursions. Our other activity is <30 mins, but everything is about that far from our place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksr5377 Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 Thanks for input. Â I'm seeing that this drive really isn't as far as I originally thought! Â We were so fortunate when we lived in the city to live very close to a park and rec center and library that hosted tons of classes for homeschoolers. Â There were also a lot of homeschooling friends in the area, everything was a 5 minute drive, 15 to get to Costco. Â So I'm still getting used to the idea of driving 20 minutes just for a Walmart, let alone anything further. Â Â Art and physical education are the two things I really struggle with doing at home. Â I have found an art class about 40 minutes away that is offered 3 times a month. Â The basketball team is 45 minutes, and at her age group only practices two times a week. It's also in the town where the closest everything-other-than-Walmart is, so I'm sure I'll be able to think of lots of errands to run. Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I routinely drive 45 to an hour each way. Then there are the longer things...ds playing chess at the Detroit Institute of Arts durinf Open chess night - 85 miles each way, camp at Michigan Tech -350 miles each way, rocket team to DC and back five years in a row - round trip 1500, 1.5 hrs to ds 1's college for concerts and plays as well as classes for ds 3, and six concerts a year at the DSO which is round trip of 170 miles, plus 3 hrs. up to Schuss Mountain/Shanty Creek five times each winter to ski and snowboard, hiking and enjoying the scenery. Â We put a lot of mileage on the minivan for activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I live rural. I drive 75 miles one way for doctor and groceries. I am unwilling to go more than 25 miles (one of two towns, both under 2,000 people, from my house, in different directions) for regular activities (read: weekly). Once a month type trips, however are easily an hour away. Like others have mentioned, I think you have to figure it out for yourself. What are your roads like? Mud? Gravel? Blacktop? Highway? People? Gas stations? Will snow or rain be a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Thanks for input.  I'm seeing that this drive really isn't as far as I originally thought!  We were so fortunate when we lived in the city to live very close to a park and rec center and library that hosted tons of classes for homeschoolers.  There were also a lot of homeschooling friends in the area, everything was a 5 minute drive, 15 to get to Costco.  So I'm still getting used to the idea of driving 20 minutes just for a Walmart, let alone anything further.   Art and physical education are the two things I really struggle with doing at home.  I have found an art class about 40 minutes away that is offered 3 times a month.  The basketball team is 45 minutes, and at her age group only practices two times a week. It's also in the town where the closest everything-other-than-Walmart is, so I'm sure I'll be able to think of lots of errands to run.   Like you, I moved from a place where everything was within 10 minutes or less. I honestly used to think a 15 minute drive was a bit of a drag and 20 minutes was Just Too Much.  And like you, I now live in a place where I drive 23 minutes to my grocery store and any drive under 20 minutes is considerd super-close. It took me a number of years to transition to that kind of thinking. Before we moved here, my MIL warned me, "Be prepared for it to take a long time to get anywhere." I didn't really understand it until I moved here. I forgot my wallet one day when shopping and the cashier said, "We'll keep your cart here until you get back," but it would have mean 75 minutes on the road to get home, then back, then home again and the frozen food would thaw and the milk sour. I said, "Oh forget it," and just went without for a few days, making due with odd food combinations, until I could get the energy to head back out to the store.  My son is taking a Spanish class 14 minutes away and I was thrilled (!) at how close it is. And then they told me they're moving to a new facility 35 minutes away. Sigh. In January, I'll be making the 35 minute drive there then the 35 minute drive back, all for a 45 minute class. I'm not happy, but there aren't a lot of resources for foreign language around here. Not at the level I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 You guys are freaks champs. ;) lol 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 When we lived rurally, we drove 30-45 mins to activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momofeat Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 We drive at least 45 minutes one way for almost everything we do. We drive an hour for ds to go to baseball practice at least twice/week.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Betty Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) We live rural. We don't have activities worked into our schedule yet. I'm Not sure that we will. We have to be very very very selective due to the energy & time it takes to run the home based office / succeed in DH's industry... We find ways to get enough variety as a family (not just kid activity) without leaving the neighborhood or a 2 mile radius whenever possible. Even grocery shopping trips and commuting for work is *super strictly* managed and while at first i felt a bit stir crazy now I am used to it and LOVE having all the energy, time, AND money I used to "waste" just driving around for stuff that is not truly necessary, at least for this season in our lives. Even church. Rather than drive 40 mins to our church we watch it streaming live online :) Edited September 22, 2016 by Shred Betty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I'm not a bit rural, but there isn't anything much that doesn't require allowing 30 minutes each way due to traffic. Over the years, we've done plenty of things that require 45 to 60 minutes each way.  If we had stayed in the neighborhood or within 2 miles, my kids would have had, let's see . . . lots of sports to choose from, but they're not very sporty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I used to drive 45 minutes each way for chess club once a week, and the same for book group once a month (for the kids). Â Other activities (scouts, etc.) were fifteen minutes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 We are quite rural. Â When my kids were all young and at home, I wouldn't drive more than 20 minutes regularly (next town over). Â Â When most were off at college and such except the younger two, and they were teens, we actually drove 2.5 hours (each way) once/week for a special activity that they were in. Â It did get tiresome, but my dh and I would take turns, and sometimes we'd stay in their event city overnight (my parents lived there). Â It also allowed us a chance to shop and run errands, since we don't have much in our small, rural town. Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I don't think it's unreasonable at all, but I live in a small town and have to drive 25 minutes just for the grocery store. I think you just have to prioritize what is important to you and decide how much you're willing to be gone. Right now we only do a homeschool co-op once a week and drive 45 minutes every other week for it since its at our house on the alternate weeks. After the beginning of the year oldest DD will probably be starting ballet though so that will add us driving half an hour once a week in.   Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk  This is about how it is for us too.  We have a choice of two different Walmarts 20 minutes or so away.  Everything else is a 30 - 45 minute drive depending on traffic.  We allow 45 minutes to get most places, unless it's rush hour and then we allow more.  This allows us to be early to most things.  I don't mind driving as long as I'm not stressed out about getting somewhere on time.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 45 minutes is my "I'll definitely do this" threshold. Anything abovee that and it better be pretty special. Â We lived in burbs once that had less going on than the real area we are in now, though. Tourist-trap towns are crap for culture!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 We drove a LOT when we homeschooled.  35-40 min. each way for scouts 35 min. to Co-op 30 min. to park days 45 min. to museums, plays, downtown activities 20 min. each way to church, youth group, activities 45 min. to Aspie therapy each way  Then last year one child went to the local Community College (20 min to the bus stop and 45 to the downtown campus. Middle son went to a charter school, 30 min. to get there, 45 home, twice per day sometimes.  Some days I was in the car more than 4 hours! It was horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I live in a large suburb, surrounded by other large suburbs, or a fairly large SW PA city. It can take me 30-45 minutes to drive 10 miles due to traffic. Ă°Å¸ËœÂ¡ The city itself is 17 miles from my house, and in rush hour it has taken me 90 minutes to get downtown.  I don't love the time wasted driving. My kids are old enough to drop off (two have driver's licenses) and I do combine shopping, errands, or meeting with other friends when possible or appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I live in a large suburb, surrounded by other large suburbs, or a fairly large SW PA city. It can take me 30-45 minutes to drive 10 miles due to traffic. Ă°Å¸ËœÂ¡ The city itself is 17 miles from my house, and in rush hour it has taken me 90 minutes to get downtown.  I don't love the time wasted driving. My kids are old enough to drop off (two have driver's licenses) and I do combine shopping, errands, or meeting with other friends when possible or appropriate. That is us too. We live 19 miles from the heart of the city and it can take a LONG time if the traffic is bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 We drive 30 minutes for karate 2-3 times/wk. Â Anywhere from 10-50 for baseball and softball 4-6 days a week during the season (across 3-4 kids) depending on who we're playing. Â Once a week, we drive just over an hour for co-op. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I realize the answer to this will vary from person to person, just trying to get an idea of what is average. Â We just moved from one of the largest cities in American to a farm, outside of a "city" of about 8,000. Â I have been able to find most of the activities that we are used to doing within about an hours in various directions. Â Due to the distance, we just won't be doing all of the things we used to do. Â However, I would like to be able to do some of our favorite activities. Â Is driving 45 minutes one way for a home school basketball team crazy? Â That would be rough on me. Â Last year, DS didn't have his license yet. Â We drove "in" to the edge of town closest to us for college classes in the AM and then picked him up. Â It's about 13 miles or 20 minutes each way. Â Then, for Mock (3 times a week) Â and for Chemistry (once a week) we drove further into town - about 2o-25 miles and about 32 minutes one way. Â That said, look at it as an investment. Â Is what you put in to the activity (time, money, etc.) worth what he/you gets out of the activity? Â Last year was really challenging. Â I still look back and say that while I'd never want to repeat that scenario again (he has his license and we've already gotten DD her permit to prevent this again) it WAS worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanalouwho Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 The closest town to us is about 20 mins. That is the minimum we drive for anything. Right now it's speech therapy/OT and basketball. When basketball is over, I plan on starting martial arts which will be 45 mins away. Â I think it will be worth it. Although I hate that drive. Â Sent from my HTCD200LVW using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) We live in a small town.   Co-op was 20-30 mins away one way.   We are not doing co-op this year.   Now we are going to a dance studio that is more serious than our local park and rec.  That is 20 mins away one way.  Doing that 1 day a week.  2 times for 6 weeks in the winter. Hopefully the change is worth it. We shall see.  I want to go an 1 hour away one way for things that they don't have here.  But I really can't commit to that.   Everything else it in town.  So at most a 5-10 min drive from the house. Edited September 22, 2016 by mommyoffive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I'm willing to drive. The max we've driven for a weekly commitment is a little over an hour. DH & I chose where we live, and we love it, but we didn't want our kids to miss out on certain activities, so we'll drive for those activities. Often this means forging friendships w/ kids who live far away too, so we drive for parties and visits too.  We're almost empty nesters. No regrets here about where we live or all that time spent going to activities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I'm willing to drive. The max we've driven for a weekly commitment is a little over an hour. DH & I chose where we live, and we love it, but we didn't want our kids to miss out on certain activities, so we'll drive for those activities. Often this means forging friendships w/ kids who live far away too, so we drive for parties and visits too.  We're almost empty nesters. No regrets here about where we live or all that time spent going to activities.   I feel like you do. I think the only drawback is if kids want to have guests, those guests have to drive "out" to you, kwim? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Also, for the OP: you mentioned a homeschool basketball team. Is there another option that is closer, but not limited to homeschoolers? I don't know the ages of your kids, but for me, we would do a closer team is possible. Â But we DID drive a out 30 mins to a homeschool volleyball team. We did have 1-3 other families to carpool with, depending on the year. The main reason we did the homeschool team is the school district team had a schedule that was not workable for us, and a club team was beyond our means financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 You guys are freaks champs. ;) lol Hehe this is what I was thinking. I'm currently living in a house I hate because of how convenient it is to everything I need. The library, dh's work, kid's kung fu classes, and 2 grocery stores are within a mile of my house all in the same direction. The only thing it is missing is my banks but I could easily pick one of the 3 that are within a mile of my house. I just haven't done that yet. The farthest I go for an activity is dd's dance, which is once a week and only a 15 to 20 minute drive. The only reason I go that far is because it is a mile from my parents house and very affordable. If money were no option we'd do dance class at the studio next to where the do kung fu and where dh works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartlikealion Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) Hehe this is what I was thinking. I'm currently living in a house I hate because of how convenient it is to everything I need. The library, dh's work, kid's kung fu classes, and 2 grocery stores are within a mile of my house all in the same direction. The only thing it is missing is my banks but I could easily pick one of the 3 that are within a mile of my house. I just haven't done that yet. The farthest I go for an activity is dd's dance, which is once a week and only a 15 to 20 minute drive. The only reason I go that far is because it is a mile from my parents house and very affordable. If money were no option we'd do dance class at the studio next to where the do kung fu and where dh works. Â I have the opposite problem. The only reason I'm where I am is because of low rent and distance to dh's work. Everything else is far away. I want to move closer to shopping, activities, etc. but then our rent will jump way up and we'll require a second vehicle because dh will no longer be able to walk to work and I'll most likely be working to make ends meet. I've been trying to problem solve this for a while. Â Edited September 22, 2016 by heartlikealion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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