Surprise Facebook Soap Opera

[bolt.]

Deleted for privacy. Thanks everyone. I couldn't have done it without you. I'd have done something, but probably not the best thing.

Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt.

[Rosie_0801]

As far as I'm concerned, honourable people don't have affairs with married people (unless their spouse is fine with it) even if they are soul mates. Honourable people support their soul mates in the lives they have chosen and don't begin relationships until after their soul mate has healed up from their divorce, which Honourable Person didn't assist in causing. And if Soul Mate doesn't get divorced, then Honourable Person does their self actualising without them.

 

 

It didn't seem real before because you value being non-judgemental.

[Scarlett]

There is always a life behind the lie. Times like this rules are good. Adultery is wrong. Not just for you but for everyone. Abd there are real consequences.

[zoobie]

It's not honorable, as Rosie said, and it's definitely not healthy for her.

[bolt.]

Deleted for privacy.

Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt.

[Guest]

Zarah sounds like a selfish, immature person. Yan probably isn't any better, if he is cheating on his wife for years on end.

 

I'd refuse to deal with either of them and make plain why. You're not obligated to support or even ignore their drama. It's okay to cut people like that out when it begins affecting you emotionally. Maybe that is exactly the wake up call someone like Zarah needs.

[Rosie_0801]

Does it matter that he led her on with promises of divorce?

 

Nah, that means he's a scuzzbucket not worth cheating with. :p 

 

 

*I* don't think I could keep giving and giving to someone in this situation, because I have a ridiculously crazy life as it is. My resources are finite. 

 

I'd probably say something like "He's cheating on his wife, he has lied to you, he's screwing over his kid by putting his resources into weakening rather than strengthening the family. Ew. Break it off with him, change your phone number and we'll eat ice cream together every day until you develop an appropriate amount of disgust with him. Be awesome. This is not awesome."

[IfIOnly]

I've been through this twice now as a friend of the married spouse betrayed. I have no words of wisdom. It's just sickening and heartbreaking and messy and devestating. Saying a prayer for all involved.

[Scarlett]

Nah, that means he's a scuzzbucket not worth cheating with. :p

 

 

*I* don't think I could keep giving and giving to someone in this situation, because I have a ridiculously crazy life as it is. My resources are finite.

 

I'd probably say something like "He's cheating on his wife, he has lied to you, he's screwing over his kid by putting his resources into weakening rather than strengthening the family. Ew. Break it off with him, change your phone number and we'll eat ice cream together every day until you develop an appropriate amount of disgust with him. Be awesome. This is not awesome."

Like.

 

Rosie always has the best way of putting things.

 

You don't have to be unkind to someone to express and uphold your own moral code. They will either respect and be influenced by it or they will get sick of no support for their bad and immoral choice and go their own way.

[hornblower]

It's real now. It's not abstract people who are being hurt. It's the way we are programmed - no matter how much we try, I think we have very powerful programming to care more about kith & kin, our village, our tribe, our community. 

Are you asking us for input on what you should do? 

[Alte Veste Academy]

Does it matter that I genuinely friendly-love her?

 

How do people get healthier without good relationships in their lives?

If you genuinely love her, respect her enough to say exactly this...

 

I'd probably say something like "He's cheating on his wife, he has lied to you, he's screwing over his kid by putting his resources into weakening rather than strengthening the family. Ew. Break it off with him, change your phone number and we'll eat ice cream together every day until you develop an appropriate amount of disgust with him. Be awesome. This is not awesome."

Think of it this way, as the good relationship in her life. How can she get healthier if those who love her do not hold her to a higher standard?

[goldberry]

 

I'd probably say something like "He's cheating on his wife, he has lied to you, he's screwing over his kid by putting his resources into weakening rather than strengthening the family. Ew. Break it off with him, change your phone number and we'll eat ice cream together every day until you develop an appropriate amount of disgust with him. Be awesome. This is not awesome."

 

Perfect! 

[bolt.]

Deleted for privacy.

Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt.

[sassenach]

My childhood best friend has made some terrible life decisions, which include cheating on her then husband, neglecting her kids and entering into a toxic and abusive relationship.

 

Here is how I handle it. 1) I'm honest. I tell her when I disagree with her choices. I do not pretend that unhealthy things are healthy. 2) I allow her to bring up or not bring up those areas of her life. If she wants to hear my honest feedback, she can start the conversation. Otherwise, we talk about work, the kids, her parents, etc. 3) when the shit hits the fan, I am there. I stay on the phone while she packs up the house and flees. I will stay on the phone for hours and comfort her when she is ready to face the mess. (We don't live in close proximity)

 

The way this plays out is when she is with her narcissistic bf, I won't hear from her for weeks at a time. She'll call occasionally and we'll catch up on general life things. When she needs a reality check and things are getting rocky, she'll call me more often. When it gets really bad, we talk every day.

 

It honestly sounds like you're entrenched in some unhealthy enabling. It's God's grace that He has given you a fuller view of the wife. He's convicting you. What you are to do with that, I don't know, but at the very least, you need to stop entertaining conversations about this relationship, except to advise her to end it.

[Rosie_0801]

I'd tell her you know Xena and can't pretend any more that this isn't messing with the lives of real people who didn't sign up for a breach of trust. Or whatever wording feels right for you.

 

It isn't only Christians who are judgmental. I'm not Christian.

 

You don't leave your soul mate for the sake of an old friend from high school, you leave them for the sake of your own integrity.

 

 

Good luck navigating an icky situation.  :grouphug:

[sassenach]

Yes, input would be good. I have so many possible approaches, and all of them make sense in their own way. More questions than answers.

 

I can't fathom leaving her high and dry -- but, maybe? How do I explain my change of heart? Do I *tell* her I know Xena?

 

Does it really come down to 'break up with him or else I'm outta here!'?

 

How do I not end up souring her on all those judgemental Christisns? Nothing else has shifted her. Won't she just be worse off with him and without me? Who leaves their soul mate for the sake of an old friend from high school? What would Jesus do? Did he only care snout the honourable people of the world?

 

What about counsellor's ethics? I know I'm not a professional -- but if pro's feel that unilateral support is so important that they have to set aside moral judgements, surely that's the best way for me too to help her? Pros -- am I misunderstanding this?

You're not a counselor, you are a Christ follower. There is nothing biblical about supporting this relationship. It's entirely possible to reject a person's actions without rejecting them as a person, but will require confronting her actions in truth and love. What you won't be able to do is change your relationship with her (from one that seemingly supports adultery to one that doesn't) without honestly confronting this issue.

[Carol in Cal.]

Pros that feel that do not earn my respect.  I think that the amorality of some facets of several professions doesn't do them any great credit.  I don't think they should be emulated.

 

I think you can stay friends with her, but you can also say that you don't approve of that relationship.  You don't have to approve of everything she does to approve of or support her do you?  

 

I tend to look down on the guy in this situation much more so than the OW.  However, I don't approve of people encouraging others to betray their spouses.  And he's playing her, clearly.  This has been going on for several years, there is a young child in the picture, and he has no reason to change the status quo and doesn't seem likely to do so.  Plus, if he does, someone is going to get badly hurt; very likely more than one person.  And basically the man is not worth it.  If I were you I would encourage her to stop seeing him so that she can develop a life of her own, and he can figure out without that distraction and drama what to do about his marriage.   

 

 

 

[fraidycat]

Nah, that means he's a scuzzbucket not worth cheating with. :p

 

 

*I* don't think I could keep giving and giving to someone in this situation, because I have a ridiculously crazy life as it is. My resources are finite.

 

I'd probably say something like "He's cheating on his wife, he has lied to you, he's screwing over his kid by putting his resources into weakening rather than strengthening the family. Ew. Break it off with him, change your phone number and we'll eat ice cream together every day until you develop an appropriate amount of disgust with him. Be awesome. This is not awesome."

:iagree:

 

And this is golden:

 

You don't leave your soul mate for the sake of an old friend from high school, you leave them for the sake of your own integrity.

:

Although, I might add that loving someone doesn't equal enabling them. Quite the opposite. Loving someone means doing what is best for them, even if it's hard.

Edited August 12, 2016 by fraidycat

[bolt.]

Deleted for privacy.

Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt.

[BooksandBoys]

One of my best friends went through a very dark period (her words) after the man who she thought she would marry left her. In that dark period, she dated three different married men (in succession, not simultaneously). I was married during this period, and not in a great place in my own marriage. This is relevant.

I told her I loved her.

I told her he was leading her on (each of them promised they'd leave their wives for her. None did).

I asked her to contemplate the idea that all the horror stories the men told about their wives might not be true. And to consider what my own husband could say sbout me if he wanted to make up very slightly true stories that made him look good.

I asked her to consider how she would feel if she learned my husband was cheating on me.

I loved her.

We remained close friends, but, just as she challenged me to look at my own stuff, I pushed her to do the same. I don't know that other friendships I have could have survived that level of honesty.

 

She eventually stopped with the married men. She found a good guy, married him, and is having a baby.

[fraidycat]

To clarify, she knows I "don't approve" on moral grounds -- and that I think her life would be better without this relationship for ordinary reasons too. But I may still be enabling or communicating a sense of undercover approval though my attempts at being a listening ear / shoulder to cry on.

 

Honestly I "don't approve" of any non-marital sexual relationship, or any non-heteto sexual behaviour at all, nor do I approve of divorce in most cases, and I think spanking is immoral too. I also think that many religions (and also atheism) constitue idolatry... And that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as the many ways that my friends behave in ways that are contrary to my values... Because they aren't me, and they don't hold my values. (There's also speeding and not being careful with library books.) I try to manage to be a good person to my friends anyways. Maybe I'm so used to overlooking this stuff, reminding myself that freedom and respect are foundational in good relationships, and that my religion governs my conduct not theirs -- and being kind anyhow... Did I fail to notice that this offence is particularly egregious? That it needs something else in terms of my response?

 

Now I sound totally judgemental. I really don't know quite how to explain myself.

Yes.

 

Most of what you mentioned as your personal no-nos are not hurting innocent people.

 

There are innocent people being hurt right now, whether they are aware of it or not, through lies and betrayal. The wife and child are innocent pawns in a game of evil being played by the husband and other woman.

[Ausmumof3]

Not being careful with library books... That really is the unforgivable sin.

 

I don't know the answer but I don't think unconditional love means unconditional approval. You can be kind and do stuff with her without approving of her relationship and when she's crying about the ins and outs you can express your true opinion. You can still do all the other stuff you do.

[hornblower]

Yeah, I'm an atheist & I'm judgemental. 

Since you asked, I'd tell her this is weighing on you & you cannot continue the friendship until something changes. 

Fwiw, I was once entrusted with information about a relationship. I lasted about 5h before I called the person and told them they had to tell their s/o or I would. It was wrong, it was immoral & I wanted nothing to do with it. I wouldn't have looked for this info, I wasn't snooping; they chose to tell me. Once I became aware of it, I couldn't NOT act. It wouldn't have been fair to the other person. 

I agree that it is enabling & it is enabling something that is wrong & that hurts people. 

[MotherGoose]

Yes, input would be good. I have so many possible approaches, and all of them make sense in their own way. More questions than answers.

 

I can't fathom leaving her high and dry -- but, maybe? How do I explain my change of heart? Do I *tell* her I know Xena?

 

Does it really come down to 'break up with him or else I'm outta here!'?

 

How do I not end up souring her on all those judgemental Christisns? Nothing else has shifted her. Won't she just be worse off with him and without me? Who leaves their soul mate for the sake of an old friend from high school? What would Jesus do? Did he only care snout the honourable people of the world?

 

What about counsellor's ethics? I know I'm not a professional -- but if pro's feel that unilateral support is so important that they have to set aside moral judgements, surely that's the best way for me too to help her? Pros -- am I misunderstanding this?

As a former counselor: you aren't a counselor, you're a friend. You don't have to provide unconditional judgment and support, and even a good counsellor will find a way to call people on their bad behavior. Loving and supporting someone does not mean agreeing with everything they do; on the contrary the most loving thing you can do is call people on their behavior.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I don't really have any advice except to say that unconditional love and unconditional support are different things from unconditional acceptance of behavior.  Whether Z reacts well or not, sometimes love is telling someone that their behavior is wrong and hurting others and themselves.  And if Z is unwilling to change, it's fair for you to say, "I can't hear about this anymore without speaking, so either don't tell me about this aspect of your life, or expect me to give you honest feedback every time you do."

[J-rap]

I think you can find a type of peace knowing that common decency isn't just a Christian values thing.  I believe that there is a common decency that everyone should (and most want) to live up to.  So, I think you can tell your friend that you have reached a level of discomfort with her situation where you are finding it difficult to continue the friendship.

 

Now, that doesn't mean you have to stop meeting with her entirely, if you still feel deep down that that's something you need to do.  (And I get that.)  But, you have at least been very honest with her and she knows exactly how you feel about things.

 

ETA:  I have a couple crazy friends (from really dysfunctional backgrounds) too so I do understand the conflicted feelings you have, and how you somehow still want to be there for them in their lives.

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by J-rap

[PrincessMommy]

There's got to be a better way to be a friend without compromising our own moral beliefs.   I don't think you should dump her as a friend, but I do agree that you should be honest with her and with yourself.   She is involved in something that is hurting another family (I'm assuming they have kids??).    You owe it to her to be honest. 

 

[marbel]

What Rosie said, and this:

 

 

I don't really have any advice except to say that unconditional love and unconditional support are different things from unconditional acceptance of behavior.  Whether Z reacts well or not, sometimes love is telling someone that their behavior is wrong and hurting others and themselves.  And if Z is unwilling to change, it's fair for you to say, "I can't hear about this anymore without speaking, so either don't tell me about this aspect of your life, or expect me to give you honest feedback every time you do."

 

Though I might go further and say that I could not continue to befriend someone who is participating in something so hurtful to others.

 

Maybe there are reasons Z has no other friends but you.  Maybe in your desire not to be judgmental you are not being discerning enough about her and her behavior/ethics/morals?   (I'm just musing on that; not telling you to dump her. I have in fact cut off a relationship with a friend over that very thing, but that doesn't mean you should do as I have done, or that I necessarily did the right thing and you are doing the wrong thing by maintaining the friendship.) 

 

ETA: I know you are a very thoughtful person, so I don't assume you haven't thought about Z's lack of friendships, etc.  It just seems like you are going out of your way to be nonjudgmental when sometimes judgment is called for.  (I am not talking about Biblical judgment, "do not judge lest ye be judged," because I am not telling you to condemn her to hell.) 

 

Edited August 12, 2016 by marbel

[kroe1]

Friends do not make us feel bad. You need a friend, not the abuser that you are calling a friend.

[ktgrok]

Like.

 

Rosie always has the best way of putting things.

 

You don't have to be unkind to someone to express and uphold your own moral code. They will either respect and be influenced by it or they will get sick of no support for their bad and immoral choice and go their own way.

 

This. You can still hang out and bring her groceries without being a yes man who agrees with all her choices. Would YOU want your friend to tell you you were doing the right thing if you clearly were not??? I mean, if she says "I have this great idea for a new exercise routine, I'm going to dodge cars during rush hour traffic - it will be exhilarating and with my limited eyesight really fun!" would you say "that's great, I support your goals" or would you say "Um, bad idea, that's hugely dangerous and I cannot support you in doing that."  It's the same thing. She's playing with fire and going to get burned 

 

Honestly, she sounds like way more energy than the friendship is worth..I don't do charity friendship, I just don't have the emotional resources. I wouldn't be friends with someone courting drama like she is anymore than I'd hang out and spend time with a heroin addict..not because they aren't human beings worthy of grace, but because I know from past experience that if a drowning person doesn't want to be saved they are likely to pull me down with them. I won't do that again. 

[Haiku]

Although I also don't demand people be just like me in order to be my friend, I also don't make a habit of maintaining friendships with people who are doing rotten things. I don't think it matters why you now feel more uncomfortable with this woman's affair. The fact is that you do, and Zarah is a grown woman making her own choices. It's not your job to be "her only friend in the world." It's her job to shape up. Were it me, I would say, "I can't continue to support you in what you're doing. You're potentially wrecking lives, and it's wrong." Then I would distance myself.

[madteaparty]

My loyalty would be to my friend, but, I've found that ideal hard to live by and have had to take breaks from my "other woman" friend. I'm not even a Christian anyway. Sucks.

Edited August 12, 2016 by madteaparty

[ktgrok]

Maybe think of some other behavior that would be hurtful and not tolerable.....would you still treat her the same if she was robbing houses? Or abusing animals? Or mugging people on the street at gun point? I'm assuming you DO have boundaries somewhere...we all do. You just have to decide if this is one of them. 

[marbel]

Maybe think of some other behavior that would be hurtful and not tolerable.....would you still treat her the same if she was robbing houses? Or abusing animals? Or mugging people on the street at gun point? I'm assuming you DO have boundaries somewhere...we all do. You just have to decide if this is one of them. 

 

That is a good way of looking at things, but the things you list are illegal.   There is a harder line there, right?   There are lots of people who find nothing morally repugnant about carrying on a romance while married or with a married person. (And plenty of people who manage to convince themselves that it's OK.)   I'm trying to think of some legal equivalents but I can't come up with one. 

 

[ktgrok]

That is a good way of looking at things, but the things you list are illegal.   There is a harder line there, right?   There are lots of people who find nothing morally repugnant about carrying on a romance while married or with a married person. (And plenty of people who manage to convince themselves that it's OK.)   I'm trying to think of some legal equivalents but I can't come up with one. 

 

 

My point was just that there ARE boundaries to friendships. Maybe that boundary is legal/illegal, maybe it is somewhere else. But having a boundary at all isn't a bad thing, in and of itself. 

[Bluegoat]

It sounds like me you have been a little too worried about being judgmental, have confused being honest about a specific issue with dropping your friend, and mistakenly thought that being supportive means not saying when something is going wrong.

 

You can carry on your friendship and help your friend, and love her, while also being honest that you think her actions are objectively wrong - she is harming another woman and a child, and she is harming herself.  It's possible she will drop you, but that is her choice, it does not mean you are unloving.

 

Telling a friend when there is something seriously wrong going on is not being judgmental, or perhaps it would be better to ay it is not always wrong or bad to be judgmental.  I'll bet there are any number of other things you would feel comfortable being outright judgmental about.  If you were not close to this person, it might not be your place to say anything.  As someone who is close, I think you can say you do not approve, morally - the friendship presumably goes both ways.  And in this case, it is a problem for your friend, and helping her may well mean trying to help her see that clearly.

 

It sounds like your friend is really fooling herself about this guy, and also deliberately ignoring the hurt to his family.  Maybe if you say something about knowing the wife, about the young child, it will make it more real to her.  (Though honestly I'll bet if she drops him he will find another mistress.)  Maybe not, but you will have done what you can.

 

The question of why you didn't feel it really before in some ways is more important to you, because it shows a thinking problem.  In Christian terms, in an effort to be loving, you forgot that sin really concretely kills love, one way or another, and you didn't even look to see how that was manifested here, and possibly that sin doesn't always look like a Nazi or pedophile out to exploit others, it is usually much more mundane and understandable.  As a result, your actions were not promoting love at all.  That could be a thinking problem that goes well beyond this particular incident.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

That is a good way of looking at things, but the things you list are illegal.   There is a harder line there, right?   There are lots of people who find nothing morally repugnant about carrying on a romance while married or with a married person. (And plenty of people who manage to convince themselves that it's OK.)   I'm trying to think of some legal equivalents but I can't come up with one. 

 

 

I think this is a place where a lot of people's thinking gets confused - it isn't all that uncommon to hear people say things like "well, X in't illegal, and while you may not like it, that doesn't make it immoral for other people if they choose it."

 

I don't think the legality or illegality is really what tells us something is immoral.  It only tell us we can't take it to the law, at least without changing the law.  And there are all kinds of things that may be immoral, and hurt others, but for various reasons aren't good candidates for legal censure. 

[marbel]

I think this is a place where a lot of people's thinking gets confused - it isn't all that uncommon to hear people say things like "well, X in't illegal, and while you may not like it, that doesn't make it immoral for other people if they choose it."

 

I don't think the legality or illegality is really what tells us something is immoral.  It only tell us we can't take it to the law, at least without changing the law.  And there are all kinds of things that may be immoral, and hurt others, but for various reasons aren't good candidates for legal censure. 

 

Right.  The legal status of an action doesn't have anything to do with its moral/ethical status.   Sorry I was not clear on that - I am not confused about the difference and I do think extra-marital relationships are immoral and wrong*.

 

But it is a fact that there are people who see nothing immoral about having sexual/romantic relationships with married people (or a married person having a relationship outside their marriage).    And some people will have no problem with a friend who is in a relationship with a married man, but would end the friendship if the person was robbing banks.

 

Anecdote:  a coworker (an unmarried woman) recently moved from a European country and expressed romantic/sexual interest in another colleague. Upon being informed that he was married and had kids, she basically said "so what?" and explained that where she came from, such relationships were common and even expected in some circles.  When it was explained to her that such relationships are not typical in the US, she was stunned.  

 

*ETA: I know some people would say "unless the married couple agree to a different arrangement."

Edited August 12, 2016 by marbel

[Valley Girl]

You said she knows you don't approve. But continuing to listen to her thoughts, feelings, whatever about the relationship is sending her a very mixed message. There's nothing wrong with saying "I care about you. I want what's best for you. I don't think this relationship is healthy or fair to anyone involved. For my own conscience and peace of mind, I can't be your sounding board anymore. I'll gladly listen to you and support you in other areas of your life but not this one. If you want to talk about Yan, you'll need to do that with someone else." You can stand by your moral code without being unkind. If she reacts badly, that's really her problem. We're not obligated to throw our own moral code out the window (and there is a lot at stake here especially for Yan's wife and child) just because someone else is emotionally needy.

[Janeway]

After seeing some things happen earlier in our lives, my husband and I agreed to a rule to discontinue friendships with people who are having affairs. There is a mentality that goes along with having an affair. The home wrecker generally has a lot more that comes along with the personality that would do that sort of thing. And they also tend to be repeat offenders.

 

I would end it with Zarah. This will all blow up eventually and then there will be sides. You don't want to be around for that.

[Haiku]

I would end it with Zarah. This will all blow up eventually and then there will be sides. You don't want to be around for that.

 

So true.

[vonfirmath]

Nah, that means he's a scuzzbucket not worth cheating with. :p

 

 

*I* don't think I could keep giving and giving to someone in this situation, because I have a ridiculously crazy life as it is. My resources are finite. 

 

I'd probably say something like "He's cheating on his wife, he has lied to you, he's screwing over his kid by putting his resources into weakening rather than strengthening the family. Ew. Break it off with him, change your phone number and we'll eat ice cream together every day until you develop an appropriate amount of disgust with him. Be awesome. This is not awesome."

 

I want to Like this

Why can't I like this?!

 

Be there for her, yes. But be there for her while encouraging/helping her do the right thing.

[Haiku]

bolt, you may also want to consider: if your friend from grade school knew your husband was cheating on you, and she continued to maintain a friendship with the other woman, and she didn't inform you that your husband was being deceptive, what you would you think about her? Would you think she was a loyal and non-judgmental person who was being a good friend to the other woman, or ... something else?

 

I can't answer that question for you, of course, but maybe you could try looking at it from a perspective other than your own/your cheating friend's.

[JustEm]

I could not remain friends with someone in that situation. Actions I disagree with that do not harm other people are things I can look passed. But affairs hurt other people and they show a lack of compassion for others' feelings that disgusts me. People can try to convince themselves all they want that there is nothing wrong with what they're doing but if the spouse doesn't know or doesn't approve their are no excuses in the world to justify an affair. Now I have friends who have had affairs and were truly remorseful. That I can forgive and be friends with but and on going affair with no intentions of stopping is not something I can condone or respect the person enough to remain friends

[Guest]

Bolt, I understand the dilemma and I've been in a similar position. In my case, though, it was a close relative. It was difficult for me because I knew that the person behaving badly was in fact a hurt and unstable person. I do believe the saying, "Hurt people hurt people." So I would think, "If I abandon this person because I don't accept their behavior, I am hurting them further and probably ramping up their dysfunctional behaviours. Yet it is difficult to be kind and loving towards this person because of the dysfunctional behaviour already displayed."

 

I was never actually able to help this person. I did put distance there and eventually the sh!t hit the fan, which was due to happen with or without my by-standing. It was a sad situation and multiple people were hurt.

[zoobie]

What do you get out of the relationship? You've talked about what you do for her. You've said she has no one other than you. Why is that? Because she's bled everyone else dry or because she's an introvert in a bad spot? If her boyfriend can find the time to have sex with her, he can take her to the grocery store. You don't have to dump her, but I wouldn't be her listening ear or support system for anything related to the affair. 

 

This has nothing to do with Christianity or a counselor's ethics. I'm not a Christian, and I wouldn't want to be enmeshed in that kind of behavior. If you are a counselor, you're not **her** counselor, or you are breaking ethics right there. A therapist wouldn't encourage and enable destructive behavior. 

 

Should you tell the wife? How good of friends are you? 

[Forget-Me-Not]

You mention that you and Zarah recently reconnected, but also that you are her only friend and she really needs you. You are doing a lot for her. How did she survive before you came back into her life? Who was her shoulder? Who drove her? Who bought her groceries?

 

I ask, because she sounds (from your description) like the kind of person who burns through friendships quickly and exhausts people until they have no more to give. We already know she is engaging in at least one other unhealthy and dysfunctional relationship. Honestly, this sounds a like it might be straying into the realm of codependency. I can't make that call; it's just an impression I got reading this thread. Something to consider.

 

Yan made promises, at least legal, if not religiously, to another woman. He is breaking those promises. He is cheating on his child too, in terms of time and emotional energy spent in a place it should not be. People are being harmed, whether they know yet or not. I have had too many betrayed friends to ever befriend and support someone who was the "other" in a relationship.

 

However, if *you* feel you would like to continue with Zarah, I think you're going to have to be honest with her and tell her that you can't condone or support her relationship and you can't provide emotional support for her issues with that relationship anymore. This will change the dynamics of your friendship, and you may need to prepare for the reality that she will disengage and may not need you as much as you think.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Forget-me-not

[Ravin]

Okay, I am saying this as a person who is NOT a Christian and who shares my home and have a friendship with my spouse's girlfriend of the past 8 years (who he also dated back in high school). I mean, she is basically stepmom to my kids, helping raise them, and DH and I are still happily married.

 

If Xena does not know about what is going on between Zara and Yan, then what they are doing is morally wrong. They are setting Xena and her child up to be hurt. It is reprehensible and dishonorable, and that has nothing to do with Christianity.

 

In your shoes I would probably tell your friend exactly what I think of her relationship, and that I know Xena, and that while I want to be her friend, I will not condone what she is doing with Yan. I would tell her this as gently as possible, but I would be firm about it.

 

How she reacts is up to her.

[bolt.]

Deleted for privacy.

Edited August 18, 2016 by bolt.

[Scarlett]

Any thoughts on -- Should I be thinking about contacting Xena and letting all the cats out of the bag? If so, what (if anything) do I say to Zarah about that?

Oh I have thoughts on it. Every betrayed spouse deserves to know the truth about her own life. I would contract the wife and tell her. I would not warn the Other Woman that you are going to do this. I would give it time to all hit the fan and when your OW friend tells you about it you can say yes I told her. It was wrong to keep such information from her.