What would you say to this young mom?

[rbk mama]

I need help knowing how to say something to a young mom who is part of a group I am in.  She has two toddlers, the younger one is 14 months old.  There are a few other young moms in this group who have infants.  This 14 month old toddler is a typical toddler in that she views infants as her playthings - nothing abnormal about that.  So she will hit them, with her hands or with a toy.  Her mother DOES NOTHING.  The mothers of the infants (as well as the other ladies in the group) are in a constant state of alert about this roaming toddler, especially when she roams near the infants.  Its baffling to me that the toddler's mother doesn't think of keeping a better watch over her child.  At one point one of the mothers told her that her daughter was hitting her baby, and could she keep her from doing that.  Her response was, "Was it very hard?"   :ohmy:  I'm wondering if there is a gentle, helpful way I can speak to this mom about her child and her responsibility toward the young babies in our group.  Any ideas?

[dirty ethel rackham]

Um, I would say, "please supervise your toddler and keep her from hitting the other children or you will have to leave and not be invited back."  But that is me sitting here with a migraine. 

[ThisIsTheDay]

When the toddler goes near any baby, I would say to the mother, "You need to keep Precious away from the babies.  She likes them so much, but she is not old enough to understand that she cannot hit them or touch them with toys."

 

I would speak in a kind tone, the way I would with an 8 year old.  I am not trying to be mean, nor would I speak down to the mom (because I speak up to 8 year olds). 

 

I would not expect the mother to clue in the first time, so I would continue to say the same thing each time Precious gets near a baby, and I would also expect other moms to step up and give the mom a similar encouragement too.  And I do view it as an encouragement.  She's obviously clueless, and it's a whole lot better than other things that could be said to her. 

[El...]

When the toddler goes near any baby, I would say to the mother, "You need to keep Precious away from the babies.  She likes them so much, but she is not old enough to understand that she cannot hit them or touch them with toys."

 

I would speak in a kind tone, the way I would with an 8 year old.  I am not trying to be mean, nor would I speak down to the mom (because I speak up to 8 year olds). 

 

I would not expect the mother to clue in the first time, so I would continue to say the same thing each time Precious gets near a baby, and I would also expect other moms to step up and give the mom a similar encouragement too.  And I do view it as an encouragement.  She's obviously clueless, and it's a whole lot better than other things that could be said to her. 

Yes, this. 

 

However, I did know one lady who would respond to that kind of gentle hint with crazy.  Just in case she goes to the crazy, know that it  doesn't mean you pushed her there.  The above is very kind, IMO.

[barnwife]

When the toddler goes near any baby, I would say to the mother, "You need to keep Precious away from the babies.  She likes them so much, but she is not old enough to understand that she cannot hit them or touch them with toys."

 

I would speak in a kind tone, the way I would with an 8 year old.  I am not trying to be mean, nor would I speak down to the mom (because I speak up to 8 year olds). 

 

I would not expect the mother to clue in the first time, so I would continue to say the same thing each time Precious gets near a baby, and I would also expect other moms to step up and give the mom a similar encouragement too.  And I do view it as an encouragement.  She's obviously clueless, and it's a whole lot better than other things that could be said to her. 

 

I would do something like this. Except every time it was happening I'd bring Precious back to her mom in addition to saying things like the above.

 

I would not hesitate at all in such a situation to correct another person's child. I know that may not be popular, but there you have it. If you (general you) aren't going to parent your child in a way that keeps my children safe, I will model it for you. (As in the removing Precious from near a baby and taking her to mom with a gentle reminder that teaching toddlers to use gentle hands is a constant battle in the situation in the OP.)

 

[momacacia]

Um, I would say, "please supervise your toddler and keep her from hitting the other children or you will have to leave and not be invited back." But that is me sitting here with a migraine.

This^^^. And this is me sitting here without a migraine but with my newborn 1 week old in my lap. #4thxmama #dontputupwithstuff :)

[Katy]

I've got a toothache so I might be crabby too, but yes, I'd correct her as if she was a child until she either got it or stopped showing up.

[Seasider]

Um, I would say, "please supervise your toddler and keep her from hitting the other children or you will have to leave and not be invited back." But that is me sitting here with a migraine.

Say this, with a compassionate smile (says the gal without a migraine; Ethel's logic isn't broken by her headache!)

[mommymilkies]

I just want to add that it has nothing to do with the Mom's age.  You have some good advice above.  I'd be gentle but firm about why this is important, or not invite her back if she doesn't understand.

[unsinkable]

Why can't the moms of the infants deal with it every time it happens?

[purpleowl]

I'd say it nicely once - "Hey, could you please keep her from hitting the other kids?"  After that I would switch to a no-nonsense "Keep your child from hitting others, or you and your child will need to leave."  It sounds like you may be past the nice stage at this point.

[HS Mom in NC]

Why can't the moms of the infants deal with it every time it happens?

 

What is it about the group culture that stops each mom from saying something to the toddler's mother?  That's just really odd.

 

When it comes to one child potentially harming another child, I have no problem walking up to that child,stopping their hand from hitting and saying, "No hitting." in a very firm tone.  I also have no problem walking the child back to mom and saying, "Your child tried to hit that baby." in a matter of fact tone.  If she said to me, "Was it hard?" I would answer, "It doesn't matter if it's hard or not.  That's not acceptable behavior." in matter of fact tone. 

 

Gentle and nice has already been tried in the OP.  The mother didn't respond to gentle and nice.  Now it's time to move to matter of fact and firm.  If matter of fact and firm doesn't work, it's time to move to negative and uncompromising like, "We don't allow children to hit each other here.  If you don't intervene and put an end to this behavior now, you and your child won't be welcome in this group."

[StephanieZ]

I agree that it is bizarre that the moms of the infants don't speak up. Steam would have come out my ears the first time . . . the second time, I would have exploded, for sure, if there had been a second time. To me, any of the above responses are appropriate. That mom needs to get a clue or get OUT. I wouldn't worry about her feelings; I'd just be worrying about the babies! Toddlers need supervision and can easily be dangerous. That mom is clueless. 

[ThisIsTheDay]

I agree that it is bizarre that the moms of the infants don't speak up. Steam would have come out my ears the first time . . . the second time, I would have exploded, for sure, if there had been a second time. To me, any of the above responses are appropriate. That mom needs to get a clue or get OUT. I wouldn't worry about her feelings; I'd just be worrying about the babies! Toddlers need supervision and can easily be dangerous. That mom is clueless. 

 

I think the bolded above is a really good point.  If someone intervenes, it needs to be done in a way in which that person is comfortable intervening.  I can have such a bitchy attitude, and over literally the past two decades, I've worked really hard at having a much more neutral and kind approach. 

 

PLEASE know that I am in NO WAY saying that any other approach is unkind or nasty--it's just that *I* am not capable of pulling it off.  I can absolutely see others responding more firmly and being wonderful and effective, without the same nasty undertones that come too easily to me.

 

It surprises me too that so many of the moms with the babies are silent, but sometimes you are so taken aback and don't have the experience to immediately respond in a way that you are comfortable.  We have become such an easily offended society, and many in this group may not quite know when it's okay NOT to just sit back and be silent.

[mamiof5]

I don't know...tough situation. If it happens again maybe remind her that if she had a baby maybe she'd be OK with a toddler hitting the baby, but most people are not and most moms are concerned about their baby's safety? Not sure if there's a way to sugar coat it

[Catwoman]

Why can't the moms of the infants deal with it every time it happens?

:iagree:

 

I don't understand why any of the moms would tolerate a child hitting an infant. That makes no sense to me. When it happens, why don't they immediately confront the toddler's mom and tell her that she needs to stop her child from touching the babies? I'm shocked that the other moms haven't gotten nasty with her about it -- if her toddler hit my baby, you can bet I wouldn't have laughed it off or let it go. Who would put up with that??? I also can't figure out why this toddler is unsupervised. Where is the mother when this child is running around hitting babies -- and again, why hasn't someone told the mom to keep an eye on her own child?

 

Obviously, the toddler's mother is at fault here but if no one has approached her and told her that her child's behavior is unacceptable, it's hard to place all of the blame on her. She may truly be that incredibly clueless, or she may be oblivious to what her child is doing because she is too busy trying to spend time with the other moms instead of keeping an eye on her kid. Whatever the case, she needs a reminder about group rules, and if she ignores the warning or gets defensive, it may be time to suggest she join a different group.

[Word Nerd]

What is it about the group culture that stops each mom from saying something to the toddler's mother? That's just really odd.

 

When it comes to one child potentially harming another child, I have no problem walking up to that child,stopping their hand from hitting and saying, "No hitting." in a very firm tone. I also have no problem walking the child back to mom and saying, "Your child tried to hit that baby." in a matter of fact tone. If she said to me, "Was it hard?" I would answer, "It doesn't matter if it's hard or not. That's not acceptable behavior." in matter of fact tone.

 

Gentle and nice has already been tried in the OP. The mother didn't respond to gentle and nice. Now it's time to move to matter of fact and firm. If matter of fact and firm doesn't work, it's time to move to negative and uncompromising like, "We don't allow children to hit each other here. If you don't intervene and put an end to this behavior now, you and your child won't be welcome in this group."

I agree. Gentle isn't working. Be direct and tell her your expectations, and model the behavior you want to see. That's kinder than allowing the situation to continue, which will only breed resentment of her by group members.

[Guest]

To the toddler, "Don't touch the baby that way."

 

To the mother, "He's gotta stop hitting the baby."

[rbk mama]

:iagree:

 

I don't understand why any of the moms would tolerate a child hitting an infant. That makes no sense to me. When it happens, why don't they immediately confront the toddler's mom and tell her that she needs to stop her child from touching the babies? I'm shocked that the other moms haven't gotten nasty with her about it -- if her toddler hit my baby, you can bet I wouldn't have laughed it off or let it go. Who would put up with that??? I also can't figure out why this toddler is unsupervised. Where is the mother when this child is running around hitting babies -- and again, why hasn't someone told the mom to keep an eye on her own child?

 

Obviously, the toddler's mother is at fault here but if no one has approached her and told her that her child's behavior is unacceptable, it's hard to place all of the blame on her. She may truly be that incredibly clueless, or she may be oblivious to what her child is doing because she is too busy trying to spend time with the other moms instead of keeping an eye on her kid. Whatever the case, she needs a reminder about group rules, and if she ignores the warning or gets defensive, it may be time to suggest she join a different group.

 

 

I agree. Gentle isn't working. Be direct and tell her your expectations, and model the behavior you want to see. That's kinder than allowing the situation to continue, which will only breed resentment of her by group members.

 

 

Thanks everyone for the advice!  These later few posts that I quoted made me realize that maybe more info was needed.  It's actually a smallish group, with all of us sitting in a circle, and the toddlers moving in and out of the group.  The infants are with their moms.  We are all sitting there watching as this one toddler roams around doing whatever she wants.  When she approaches the babies, I think every single lady present EXCEPT the toddler's mother is watching anxiously to see if this child will hit the baby.  The babies' mothers are naturally doing what they can to prevent it.  After it happened a few times, they are much more careful whenever the toddler comes by.  But no one has outright told this toddlers mother that she really needs to watch her kid more closely.  I'm not sure if its because we're all together and it would seem like a too public type of confrontation. 

 

In fact, the rest of us had never even spoken to each other about it until recently when this mother was out of town for a few weeks (and the one mother shared that she had said something to her, but as I posted got the baffling response, "Was it very hard?")  So now I'm feeling like we probably were wrong to never directly address this earlier, and there IS resentment that has built up.

 

How do you get across the idea that SHE the MOTHER is responsible to keep her kid from hurting others, and so she needs to be RIGHT WITH HER every time she is close to babies, or else physically bar her from approaching them at all?  It seems like a very basic parenting concept that she is just not on the same page about, so it feels bigger to me than just saying "keep her from hitting others" - to which I sort of feel like she would just shrug and say, I told her not to.  She pretty much lets both her kids run free and do whatever they want.  We are often taking things out of their hands that they shouldn't be playing with. 

[Xahm]

I have two little ones, and the way I hope someone would approach me if I were so clueless would be to ask "hey, we notice this is happening and we want to back you up in your normal way of teaching your child to be gentle. Do you have a set phrase she usually hears as you take her away from the baby?" Then I the clueless mom would both be made aware there is a problem and placed in a position to have a troubleshooting conversation without being put on the defensive by someone assuming, even correctly, that I am not parenting my child properly.

[Carrie12345]

I am NOT good with confrontation, and I think what that mother's (not) doing is horrible.  But I'm equally horrified that mothers of infants would be "watching anxiously to see if this child will hit the baby.  The babies' mothers are naturally doing what they can to prevent it."

 

Um, no.  That's your BABY.  If you're not going to restrain the toddler yourself or call out the mother, pick your $^&* infant up and protect it BEFORE it gets assaulted by an unparented little tornado!  Those helpless babies don't care about social niceties.

[marbel]

I am NOT good with confrontation, and I think what that mother's (not) doing is horrible.  But I'm equally horrified that mothers of infants would be "watching anxiously to see if this child will hit the baby.  The babies' mothers are naturally doing what they can to prevent it."

 

Um, no.  That's your BABY.  If you're not going to restrain the toddler yourself or call out the mother, pick your $^&* infant up and protect it BEFORE it gets assaulted by an unparented little tornado!  Those helpless babies don't care about social niceties.

 

This is what I was about to say.  I don't get it.  Why aren't the mothers picking up their babies, and/or gently restraining the toddler's hands while also asking the toddler's mother to come get her child?

 

I do that all the time in our church nursery (other than talking to the child's mother, who is obviously not there).  I get that toddlers can be fascinated with babies and don't know how to be gentle.  Most mothers are working with their kids on that and are happy to have other mothers reinforce it. 

 

 

[rbk mama]

I am NOT good with confrontation, and I think what that mother's (not) doing is horrible.  But I'm equally horrified that mothers of infants would be "watching anxiously to see if this child will hit the baby.  The babies' mothers are naturally doing what they can to prevent it."

 

Um, no.  That's your BABY.  If you're not going to restrain the toddler yourself or call out the mother, pick your $^&* infant up and protect it BEFORE it gets assaulted by an unparented little tornado!  Those helpless babies don't care about social niceties.

 

 

This is what I was about to say.  I don't get it.  Why aren't the mothers picking up their babies, and/or gently restraining the toddler's hands while also asking the toddler's mother to come get her child?

 

I do that all the time in our church nursery (other than talking to the child's mother, who is obviously not there).  I get that toddlers can be fascinated with babies and don't know how to be gentle.  Most mothers are working with their kids on that and are happy to have other mothers reinforce it. 

 

 

I'm always trying to be as succinct as possible, but obviously I should have added in more detail here.  So we're not all sitting around watching babies getting pummeled.  By watching anxiously, I mean - watching to see if it looks like this toddler will get too close.  She doesn't always come up to the babies; sometimes she wanders somewhat close and then away.  So the parents are all tense, looking to see if they need to pick up their babies.  Obviously they pick them up when the toddler comes near them now - its obvious that they have to.  What bugs me though is that they HAVE TO do this, because this toddler's mother won't restrain her.  It seems unfair to the babies' mothers to have to keep this sort of vigilance all the time.  In a church nursery, when the toddlers' parents are not there, it totally makes sense that you need to do this all the time.  But when she's sitting right there watching? 

 

Anyway, I like the advice about modeling the behaviors you want to see.  I feel strange doing that in front of the mother, but I guess we just need to.  Maybe she will get a clue and do it herself then.

[Guest]

I say this gently, and having been there myself I am sure at some point.

 

You're way over-thinking this!

 

Just tell the kid not to hit babies. Actually just say "don't touch the baby, sweetheart." That's not a confrontation, that's how you speak to toddlers who are touching babies.

 

And you totally don't need to have a sit down with the mom, intervention-style. Just be like, "Se can't touch the babies." It's not a confrontation! It's a fact like "It's hot out here, I need to find some shade." The reason it's not a confrontation is because everyone on the planet with a baby knows toddlers can't hit them. Even this mother, I bet, wouldn't let her daughter hit him if she had a new baby. She's just going with the flow. The flow needs to stop being secretive and weird about how the toddler is touching the babies. This isn't something for hushed tones when the mother is out of town. It's something that calls for  the words no and stop and don't.

'

[Word Nerd]

this is what I figured

 

 

I just assumed that. I'm not sure where anyone got the idea they were sitting around watching their babies get smacked but too afraid to intervene. Of course that's not what she meant.

[Jean in Newcastle]

While I do think the toddler's mom should do more redirecting, I don't think this amount of vigilence from the infants' mothers is unusual either.  If you are in a group with infants and toddlers it comes with the territory.  

[EmseB]

Can you make some sort of group announcement that states the obvious -- like, "a few people have been wondering about the rules for older children in this group so we need to clarify...please make sure they are keeping their hands to themselves, blah, blah, blah".

 

It's not fair for everyone to be on edge, but sometimes not singling someone out can be easier than direct confrontation.

 

 

[Mergath]

How do you get across the idea that SHE the MOTHER is responsible to keep her kid from hurting others, and so she needs to be RIGHT WITH HER every time she is close to babies, or else physically bar her from approaching them at all?  It seems like a very basic parenting concept that she is just not on the same page about, so it feels bigger to me than just saying "keep her from hitting others" - to which I sort of feel like she would just shrug and say, I told her not to.  She pretty much lets both her kids run free and do whatever they want.  We are often taking things out of their hands that they shouldn't be playing with. 

 

You say, "Hey, you're the mother here and you need to be RIGHT WITH your daughter if she gets close to the babies."

 

I'm sure she's enjoying having a nice break from parenting and letting everyone else do it for her during your groups, but it's time for her to either keep a closer eye on her kid or find a new group. Repeatedly hitting infants is not okay. The first couple of times her toddler did it, okay, maybe she didn't know it was going to happen. But she obviously knows now and doesn't care. 

[luuknam]

In fact, the rest of us had never even spoken to each other about it until recently when this mother was out of town for a few weeks (and the one mother shared that she had said something to her, but as I posted got the baffling response, "Was it very hard?")  So now I'm feeling like we probably were wrong to never directly address this earlier, and there IS resentment that has built up.

 

How do you get across the idea that SHE the MOTHER is responsible to keep her kid from hurting others, and so she needs to be RIGHT WITH HER every time she is close to babies, or else physically bar her from approaching them at all?  It seems like a very basic parenting concept that she is just not on the same page about, so it feels bigger to me than just saying "keep her from hitting others" - to which I sort of feel like she would just shrug and say, I told her not to.  She pretty much lets both her kids run free and do whatever they want.  We are often taking things out of their hands that they shouldn't be playing with. 

 

So, I've encountered the attitude that it's no big deal as long as no real damage is done before, which is a way of viewing things, and if that's how this mom sees things, the only thing you can do is tell her that while in the group she has to stop her kid from doing that or she won't be allowed back in the group. Not every group fits every parent.

 

Or, it's possible that mom is simply overwhelmed, and you might get somewhere by starting out with something along the lines of "you seem to be struggling with how to deal with Precious when she's not behaving her nicest... are you okay?" [wait for answer] Then, depending on the answer, you might simply be able to tell her "this is what works for me when my child does stuff like that".

[LibraryLover]

When I had a 15 month old and a newborn, I was in a fog. I was utterly exhausted. I always appreciated a little help. Maybe someone can gently bring the 14 month old back to her, saying kindly, "She's just a baby herself. She doesn't understand that she might be hurting the younger babes when she touches them." It's not a confrontation to look out for and support each other. I didn't feel normal for about a year. And normal is pushing it. lol. It took years to get over that degree of sleep deprivation.

[Seasider]

When I had a 15 month old and a newborn, I was in a fog. I was utterly exhausted. I always appreciated a little help. Maybe someone can just be really nice to her. Bring the 14 month old back to her, saying kindly, "She's just a baby herself. She doesn't understand that she might be hurting the younger babes." It's not a confrontation to look out and support each other. I didn't feel normal for about a year. And normal is pushing it. lol. It took years to get over that degree of sleep deprivation.

Good point!

[Tammyla]

I would in a noticeably loud, but kind voice tell the child that we do not hit at play group, and take her by the hand to momma and recommend a minute to calm down before returning to play.   I would also verbally model how to handle the issue with the child and mom.  You know, hitting hurts.  it's okay to fell angry, but we don't hit...we use our words. 

 

 

(I want to say, that I wouldn't do this with a first timer, but you mention this is getting to the group.) 

[JessReplanted]

Two toddlers.. and the youngest one is 14 months? That is a hard age. The mom might be hoping that the group will help her keep an eye on her ever-wandering & striking toddler. I would correct and redirect the child, and I would mention something to the mom about it, but I would be gentle and gracious.

[Mom22ns]

If you are sitting around in a circle, are all the adults staying in their seats? I'm wondering if this mom thinks she would be disrupting by going after her child and is assuming that the other parents will redirect when she gets near them? She may have no idea that it bothers anyone to redirect her child. Asking "was it hard" may have just been an embarrassed parent hoping her child hadn't hurt anyone, not thinking it was ok. I think you really need to be open with this mom. "Please stay with your toddler when she gets close to the babies. It is fine to get up and move and follow her around." If she doesn't then a one on one conversation before or after the meeting where you explain that other mom's are having a hard time protecting their babies and you need her to be more vigilant. 

 

At the same time, as a mom in the group, I wouldn't hesitate to stop this toddler before she gets close and tell her, "No you can't play with the baby right now. Please go play ___". Physically redirecting if needed. Model the behavior to the mother, but also TELL her you want her to do it.

 

In the groups I was in when my kids were toddlers, no one had to follow their child about. We all treated all the kids as if they were ours, so anyone close would have redirected. If a mom with a baby didn't have a free hand to redirect, the next nearest mom would have. No one would have had to chase their toddler (although I'm a helicopter parent by nature and often did :). 

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Um, I would say, "please supervise your toddler and keep her from hitting the other children or you will have to leave and not be invited back."  But that is me sitting here with a migraine. 

 

I still think this is the whole answer.

 

This sort of socialization is what mommy groups are for. Sometimes the toddlers need to be guided into proper group behavior, sometimes the mommies do, whatever.

[happypamama]

If I were the mom of the toddler, I'd be on her like a hawk, holding her hands to guide her and everything. But if I were the mom of one of the babies, I would probably shift the baby to one arm when I saw the toddler coming, and I'd reach out for the toddler with the other hand. If needed, I'd have that arm ready to block her from hitting the baby, but I would prefer to do something like reach for her hand and help her stroke the baby's foot gently or something, while saying, "Gentle, gentle touch. Baby likes gentle," in as calm a voice as possible. I'm also not above settling the toddler on my lap too and stroking her hair or arm while repeating, "Gentle, gentle," as a way of diffusing her natural energy and getting her to associate the word "gentle" with a calm and gentle action. Fourteen months can start to understand gentle, albeit some more successfully than others. Since the mom isn't, for whatever reason, educating her toddler, I would try to do so in a loving and kind way.

 

Is there a chance for active play for the toddler at this group? A high energy toddler needs that! (And it's hard having a high energy, very physical little girl. Both boys and girls need to be taught how to behave, but society will look down on a rough girl much more than a rough boy.)

 

But for the mom, I think someone taking the toddler back to the mom and asking if there is a phrase she uses or something is really a great idea. If her other toddler is a handful, maybe she is overwhelmed and needs some additional support. But I think telling her that if the toddler is going to roam, she needs to be right with her to catch her before she hurts a baby, and if that doesn't work, she needs to be directed to find a different group. But do what you can to help her and her toddler, because you don't want her feeling down on herself as a parent because her toddler needs some extra time to learn to manage herself. There's giving her a gentle kick in the behind, and then there's kicking her too hard.

[Word Nerd]

Two toddlers.. and the youngest one is 14 months? That is a hard age. The mom might be hoping that the group will help her keep an eye on her ever-wandering & striking toddler. I would correct and redirect the child, and I would mention something to the mom about it, but I would be gentle and gracious.

The group members have babies and toddlers of their own to keep an eye on. I doubt she's more in need of help than anyone else there.

[kiwik]

The group members have babies and toddlers of their own to keep an eye on. I doubt she's more in need of help than anyone else there.

She could easily be more in need of help. We don't know what is going on in her life. The was it hard was probably just worry. I have a child who can be violent and I have often needed to ask what degree of whatever before i could deal with it. Of course I also had to follow him around and look out for potential targets and head him off. But I slipped up sometimes and even now I sometimes can't get there quickly enough when I can see a problem developing.

[JessReplanted]

The group members have babies and toddlers of their own to keep an eye on. I doubt she's more in need of help than anyone else there.

 

Have you ever been in a group of women where everyone helps to keep an eye on whoever is closest to them? This is what I mean. Of course the child is the mother's responsibility. I do think that the other women can help lovingly correct the child though.

[Ellie]

What is it about the group culture that stops each mom from saying something to the toddler's mother?  That's just really odd.

 

When it comes to one child potentially harming another child, I have no problem walking up to that child,stopping their hand from hitting and saying, "No hitting." in a very firm tone.  I also have no problem walking the child back to mom and saying, "Your child tried to hit that baby." in a matter of fact tone.  If she said to me, "Was it hard?" I would answer, "It doesn't matter if it's hard or not.  That's not acceptable behavior." in matter of fact tone. 

 

Gentle and nice has already been tried in the OP.  The mother didn't respond to gentle and nice.  Now it's time to move to matter of fact and firm.  If matter of fact and firm doesn't work, it's time to move to negative and uncompromising like, "We don't allow children to hit each other here.  If you don't intervene and put an end to this behavior now, you and your child won't be welcome in this group."

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[Word Nerd]

Have you ever been in a group of women where everyone helps to keep an eye on whoever is closest to them? This is what I mean. Of course the child is the mother's responsibility. I do think that the other women can help lovingly correct the child though.

The issue is that the gentle, dulcet, tip-toeing approach has already been tried and is not effective. Firm, direct, matter-of-fact instructions are needed. It's not like anyone is advocating screaming at the toddler or mother.

[Retired]

I live in the south and my babies are grown.  I do know that still in my culture I will "mother" a strangers kid.  I will see some kid in a Walmart buggy trying to climb out when the mom turns to get something of the shelf.  I will say no no or something.  The mom always thanks me.   They are usually just new moms and overwhelmed.  I've taken a crying baby from a frustrated mom in the store and calm them down.  Then I talk to the mom and calm her down.

 

I'm a nurse and a nurturer no matter what the situation.  I just step in on the behalf of any child.  I also live in rural area with poverty and less educated populace.  We have a lot of teen moms.  We have a lot of poor moms.   There is a cycle of ignorance and poverty here which affects child rearing.

 

I think your mom with 2 young kids is overwhelmed.  The other moms should just help parent the toddler during group time.

 

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Have you ever been in a group of women where everyone helps to keep an eye on whoever is closest to them? This is what I mean. Of course the child is the mother's responsibility. I do think that the other women can help lovingly correct the child though.

I think it is the mother's cavalier attitude about the hitting ("was it hard?") that is the problem.  The mother of the hitting toddler does not see a problem with her toddler hitting babies.  A responsible mother would apologize and try to figure out a solution to prevent it from happening again, not blow it off. 

 

The issue is that the gentle, dulcet, tip-toeing approach has already been tried and is not effective. Firm, direct, matter-of-fact instructions are needed. It's not like anyone is advocating screaming at the toddler or mother.

Exactly.  This mother needs to be told in no uncertain terms that allowing her child to hit other children (especially babies) is not acceptable and that she needs to act. Offer suggestions of what can be effective.   If she does not want to do this or does not feel it is necessary, then she should not expect that other families will want to socialize with her. 

[Guest]

When I had a 15 month old and a newborn, I was in a fog. I was utterly exhausted. I always appreciated a little help. Maybe someone can gently bring the 14 month old back to her, saying kindly, "She's just a baby herself. She doesn't understand that she might be hurting the younger babes when she touches them." It's not a confrontation to look out for and support each other. I didn't feel normal for about a year. And normal is pushing it. lol. It took years to get over that degree of sleep deprivation.

Yeah. Been there, done that. One and a half year olds don't have much judgment, and they aren't trying to hurt infants in playing with them. But they do sometimes get too rough. Redirect and correct, rinse and repeat. Even just saying "hey mom friend, can you keep an eye on your baby so she doesn't get too rough?" Is not out of bounds or offensive. But some moms view group play dates as their time to relax their vigil on their kids and just let them play. That's okay, but they do sometimes need some intervening still.

 

I have two sweet kids who get rough on accident and don't seem to realize it or stop when others want them to stop. I try and catch it as much as possible, but I do miss sometimes and get preoccupied or don't think my kids have crossed lines in social contact that the other mom's think they have. It's okay to say something and step in, especially if mom doesn't have the same boundaries you do! As that mom, who can't always watch the baby and toddler and yes, baby gets whacked occasionally, it doesn't offend me at all if someone steps in and intervenes. Sometimes I can't, sometimes, I don't notice, sometimes I'm just tired of policing a toddler who LOVES babies but hasn't learned to be gentle 100% of the time.

 

As that mom, I give you permission. Any other mom friend worth her salt wouldn't get ruffled over a casual group parenting encounter. I promise.

[Guest]

She could easily be more in need of help. We don't know what is going on in her life. The was it hard was probably just worry. I have a child who can be violent and I have often needed to ask what degree of whatever before i could deal with it. Of course I also had to follow him around and look out for potential targets and head him off. But I slipped up sometimes and even now I sometimes can't get there quickly enough when I can see a problem developing.

Exactly.

[Word Nerd]

She could easily be more in need of help. We don't know what is going on in her life. The was it hard was probably just worry. I have a child who can be violent and I have often needed to ask what degree of whatever before i could deal with it. Of course I also had to follow him around and look out for potential targets and head him off. But I slipped up sometimes and even now I sometimes can't get there quickly enough when I can see a problem developing.

No, we don't know that, nor do we know what's going on in the lives of the other moms there or how challenging or in need of help they are. That was my point.

[luuknam]

No, we don't know that, nor do we know what's going on in the lives of the other moms there or how challenging or in need of help they are. That was my point.

 

The group members have babies and toddlers of their own to keep an eye on. I doubt she's more in need of help than anyone else there.

 

It's already been said, but it's easily possible that she's got more problems than some/most/all the other moms there. Yes, babies and toddlers are hard. But some people have mental or physical health problems (temporary or permanent), family problems (DV, etc), poverty, name it (and some people have all those problems, since it seems problems like to go together).

 

Some gentle probing would probably give the OP an idea of whether this person just has wacky parenting ideas or is overwhelmed (and possibly more so than others). Nobody is advocating letting the toddler hit all the babies nor doing nothing. You just don't have to start out assuming that this mom isn't in any more need of help than anyone else and that the only reason she's not watching her kid more is that she's just a bitch.

[Pegs]

I'd probably just start parenting the toddler to model it for the mom, then require her to take over, and scaffold as appropriate.

 

"We don't hit babies! Let's use gentle hands."

 

*take toddler by the wrist and use her hand to stroke the back of mine. Touch toddler gently on the hands*

 

"Here, let's touch the baby gently. Isn't he soft? Shall we go and show Mommy our gentle hands? Look Mommy, we're using gentle hands!"

 

To the mom, "You'll need to stick with her for a while I think."

 

Fifteen minutes later: "It's such an intense age, isn't it? They need constant supervision! Can I give you a break?" (Reinforcing gentle hands for both toddler and mom, and demonstrating that toddler really does need constant supervision at this stage.)

[Word Nerd]

You just don't have to start out assuming that this mom isn't in any more need of help than anyone else and that the only reason she's not watching her kid more is that she's just a bitch.

Which is not what I said. At all. Of course it's possible she needs more help. It's also possible other moms there need more help or are facing one or more of the problems you mentioned. We shouldn't make assumptions about any of them, this mom included.

[Pegs]

Which is not what I said. At all. Of course it's possible she needs more help. It's also possible other moms there need more help or are facing one or more of the problems you mentioned. We shouldn't make assumptions about any of them, this mom included.

Hmm. I tend to think that not parenting appropriate to the setting is a pretty clear indicator that a woman is lacking support. Even if she doesn't have anything particularly big going on behind the scenes, she obviously requires guidance on the problem being discussed at present.