lovinmyboys Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I know most everyone has yelled at their children at some point, but I thought it was usually out of frustration/exasperation not purposefully. I figured most people try not to yell. After a conversation today, I am wondering if it is pretty common for people to believe their kids "deserve" to be yelled at, or "need" to be yelled at so they change their behavior. I'm not talking about abusive or "bad" parents. Is this a common belief? If I don't think kids need to be yelled at, is there something I could say to these people that would be received well? Or is it just "you have your beliefs and I have mine." Would you be ok with other adults yelling at your child (teacher, coach, neighbor, family member)? I'm not talking about verbal abuse-just raised voice talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I think that the (very) occasional "moment of alarm" yelling at someone can be very useful for loved ones of all ages. It makes an impression when angry or frustrated yelling is not the norm. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 My kids' dance teacher does a lot of yelling, I'm not delighted by it but it is not uncommon in a coaching kind of situation. He's not angry, just trying to motivate them. I don't think it is necessary but in that context unless a particular child is sensitive about it I don't think it is harmful. Yelling in frustration and anger bother me, but it is the anger part not the yelling part that I mostly perceive as a problem. Anger without yelling can be hurtful too. I may be hypersensitive to anger though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I have found that people who yell as their main means of motivation are pretty ineffective and yet yes there are apparently those who genuinely feel that is the only way to make an impact and they do it deliberately, not just out of frustration/anger. To me that indicates that either they probably were never able to come up with a more effective means of communication and this is the default position or this was what they grew up with and never even tried another way. When I talk rationally to my kids, even if sometimes it is very firm, they usually are more likely to listen to me than DH. Why? DH tends to yell, although it really isn't yelling so much as jumping on them. He has done it enough times for little things that they tend to tune him out when he is yelling over a big thing. It is ineffective. If I yell, on the other hand, they know things are serious and they need to pay attention since I just rarely ever yell. I don't normally need to. In fact, I make a concerted effort not to. I find listening and discussion far more effective. I know that there are many who disagree with me, though, including in my extended family. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 No. I believe most people do not think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I've never done that nor heard of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 No, it's more a discipline thing on the part of the parents. When we don't respond consistently we end up getting inconsistent behavior, and the yelling is what happens when we can't patiently deal with the inconsistent behavior. Of course the logical reaction is to get more consistent and be patient and bla bla bla. But we are human. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Though on a case-by-case basis, there are times when yelling is the most effective thing at that moment to get the needed result. I have certainly been heard saying: I hate yelling, but when they get to the point of ignoring whatever I say in a normal voice, it's going to happen. I still blame myself for not teaching them well enough to respond to my normal voice. Now if you're the soccer or swim coach, yeah, yell away. That's a different thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 My kids know if I yell, it's serious. I think I've only done it twice in the past year (child wandered into a dangerous area, child rode bike right out into the road without looking). It was necessary for the shock value, to impress how unacceptable that action, and the lack of listening, was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I know most everyone has yelled at their children at some point, but I thought it was usually out of frustration/exasperation not purposefully. I figured most people try not to yell. After a conversation today, I am wondering if it is pretty common for people to believe their kids "deserve" to be yelled at, or "need" to be yelled at so they change their behavior. I'm not talking about abusive or "bad" parents. Is this a common belief? If I don't think kids need to be yelled at, is there something I could say to these people that would be received well? Or is it just "you have your beliefs and I have mine." Would you be ok with other adults yelling at your child (teacher, coach, neighbor, family member)? I'm not talking about verbal abuse-just raised voice talking. Raised voices don't even slightly phase me. Even if they mixed in bad words it might not phase me. It depends on the context of the situation and on the relationship I and or my child has with that person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I'm not a yeller. I yell only out of frustration and I'm always upset about doing so afterwards. So I don't believe in the "power" of yelling. The exception might be if my child was in danger. Although not even every instance of that would warrant yelling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Perfectly ok yelling: Yelling across the house for your child to come here. Yelling out in alarm when a child is about to stumble into the street or other dangerous situation. Yelling over a class room of chatting kids that they need to take their seats and quiet down. Not ok yelling: Yelling in anger or irritation. Yes, sometimes I yell. I used to yell much more. :( It's something I have always hated about my parenting and I've worked very hard to stop. The last time I yelled was months ago. Ten years ago, months did not go by without me yelling. Raising your voice to be heard is in a totally different category. Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes it's simply easier. I'm changing a poopy diaper, and the dog is freaking out to come inside because it's raining. You bet I'm going to shout for someone to let the dog in. But, no, I do not think that kids need to be yelled at in anger. However, sometimes it's understandable that a parent freaks out about a child doing something very dangerous or something like that. However, it's never ok to call a kid names, imply that they're stupid or incapable, belittle or humiliate the child in front of people. The content and tone of the words actually matter a lot more to me than the volume. A quiet and contemptuous, "Acting stupid again huh? You will never learn." is much more damaging than a shouted, "Hey! Knock it off huh? Third time I've said this!" 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Gosh, I hope not. Yelling is hitting with words. I have heard some "family culture" defense mechanisms but raising voices is, for many, experienced as scary. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 with my older kids I did not yell. I told them once then they got a smack. they have grown up to be very well behaved marvelous kids. the younger one DS11) we tried a different parenting style. I have to yell at him a lot. he is a pest and I really wish that we had given him smacks and trained him properly instead of trying ineffective modern methods of parenting. for the twins- Sigh! a completely different kettle of fish- sometimes they do get yelled at and it is a STOP RIGHT NOW YELL because they are doing something that is potentially dangerous and they do not respond to normal talk when they chose not to. When teaching in the classroom - I do yell, example -when I am telling a boy to stop kicking another student in the back I do it in a loud yelling voice. Yelling to me is when you need to get attention very quickly and need an immediate response. If done all the time then it becomes ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Well... I do think my kids and sometimes other kids... need me to raise my voice and speak really seriously sometimes. I was prepared to say no, but the way the OP phrased it seems... unclear to me. I mean, I don't think anyone needs to be railed at in anger ever. Like you said, sometimes it happens to most everyone in a bad moment, but I don't advocate that or yelling as a way of communicating in general. On the other hand, sometimes I've had my kids be hysterical (either giddy happy silly or upset) or not listening in a really important moment. I feel like it's okay to speak louder and say, "Hey, I need you to listen right now." I have zero problem with a coach or teacher raising their voice to calmly say to a class or team that my kid is on that everyone needs to pay attention or that something that just happened was serious or something along those lines. In fact, I feel like I've seen that many times. The coach on my ds's soccer team is the quietest, gentlest speaker, but he's raised his voice to say, "Guys, you need to listen up or you'll miss this information" when the kids are goofing off occasionally. I don't find that abusive. On the other hand, I don't think I'd describe that as "yelling." But the OP said "I'm not talking about verbal abuse, just raised voice talking." If you've got a group and can work them in a quiet voice 100% of the time, great. But I've worked with some amazing, gentle teachers over the years and not seen that very often. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm with Farrar - I have had to raise my voice with my kids at times. To me (remembering my own childhood) yelling wasn't scary, it meant my parents were really serious, possibly angry, about something. Just as an example: I might ask my kids to do something for me by a certain time. Say we are having company and the bathroom needs cleaning. After some time has gone by I might check the room and it's not done, so I remind them. Then, when company is about to arrive, I check again and see it's still not done. At that point, I'm not likely to go calmly find them and nicely remind them to clean the bathroom. I'm going to stand in the bathroom doorway and call their names loudly so they can hear me and they know to come to me right now. And I will probably not be calm and quiet and polite when I tell them to get their chore done immediately. I will be angry, and they'll know it. If they find that scary and upsetting, maybe they should just do what I ask the first time. Even the 2nd time. And yes, I do consider it a failure on my part when my kids don't obey quickly. But none of us are immune to distraction or putting off unpleasant tasks. Note that my kids are teens. I wouldn't yell at a 4-year-old that way. But of course expectations would be different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I don't think kids need to be yelled at, perse But I do think kids need to know a parent is serious and a situation has gone past a certain point. My husband and I yell more than we would like, however it is definitely a family culture thing, our parents yelled, our friends parents yelled, it's common here. It wasn't scary, so much as attention grabbing. When they started yelling we realized they were serious and we had screwed up. If I ask for something to be done 3 times and it's not, the fourth time I'm not going to be asking nicely, lets put it that way! I don't have a problem with needing to show that mummy is upset, hurt and frustrated. Kids need to know their actions effect the people around them, my eldest is well aware that sometimes when she is naughty on purpose she really upsets and hurts mummys feelings, I've even been known to cry in frustration sometimes.. But it doesnt HAVE to be yelling which displays it. Yelling is one of many options. So is that deathly serious quiet tone for some families (though, in our family cultures, that tone indicates the situation has gone beyond yelling into serious, deep, trouble. You want to talk fear, THAT was the voice we were afraid of, not yelling!), or various other changes in tone/words, sometimes it's a distanced attitude, sometimes it's mummy storming off to her bedroom to be alone, each family has their own signs. Yelling is just another of them. As for my family, I'm working hard at not yelling for the minor things and to tone it back, I don't want to yell as much as my parents did and it's a hard habit to break. However, I feel no need to stop altogether. Sometimes the kids are just driving mummy insane, and mummy is a human too. I think it's important children see that their behaviour has an effect on me. Yelling is a reasonable, and common way of expressing it. Plenty of adults yell at other adults too. As a student at school we definitely had teachers who were 'yellers', some were notorious for it, so I don't think it bothers many parents. I would want to know that the yelling is justified, for a major infraction not a minor mistake, but I don't necessarily take issue with an adult yelling at one of my older children (toddlers are too young, I wouldn't consider it ok until the child is, perhaps, 8+) and I am quite sure, in the area we live, it will occur at some extracurriculars over the years. Edited to add: at no point am I talking about the words being abusive. It's things like "Child1, I've asked you to get off your sister already, now GET OFF' or 'Child2, You were told to put the dishes away, what are you doing!' or 'Child3, Stop right now!' (in response to a dangerous situation about to happen) or, if I am really upset, a lecture being delivered in a yelling tone, however the words themselves are the same words I would use when calm, no insults or abuse or anything, just loud and angry/upset 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I don't think anger is bad. Anger is an emotion that everyone experiences at one time or another. How you react to that anger can be positive or negative. I generally do not think yelling or lashing out is a positive way to deal to deal with anger. I also think some people can get angry over things that should roll off their back and is rooted in other things from the past. When I was younger, I had to work on this actively. I am SO SO much more laid back than when I was younger. All that said, I have definitely raised my voice to my kids from time to time. Usually after an extremely LONG run of some anger inducing behavoir. If I'm out of line, I apologize for yelling after the fact. I definitely don't like yelling, but usually by the time I do it, something REALLY needs to happen immediately. Yelling in an emergency situation does not count IMO. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Yeah, what is it about kids not acting on something we've said multiple times? Just yesterday I asked a simple yes/no question. I asked 3 times and on the 3rd time it was more of a growl. My kid informed me that a workman was in the house hearing me. I responded that maybe he too gets irritated with his kids when they've ignored him repeatedly. :/ Last week I was having a similar discussion with a friend of mine. I told her my kids must be dumb since they haven't figured out my "I'm this close to losing it on someone" voice. Or I must not be scary enough. I certainly knew when my mom was in that stage - the one where you keep quiet and listen and do exactly what she says OR ELSE. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm a recovering yeller. Growing up my parents were bad yeller. Our whole family was a bunch of yellers. I was the kid in school that would have temper tantrum and yell at the children who picked on me. I've been working hard to get over this. I don't like it. Frankly, I think that it's a self-control issue and I think that people who argue that it's necessary or justifying themselves. Sometimes when my dh has called me out on yelling I've given this as an excuse but I always come around and admit that it's not best. Dh on the other hand is a wonder. He has never yelled at me or my children ever. He can get angry but yelling is just not his go-to release. I wish that I was like that. His family of origin is much calmer than mine. I suspect that it's both nature and nurture that has given him this trait. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I know most everyone has yelled at their children at some point, but I thought it was usually out of frustration/exasperation not purposefully. I figured most people try not to yell. After a conversation today, I am wondering if it is pretty common for people to believe their kids "deserve" to be yelled at, or "need" to be yelled at so they change their behavior. I'm not talking about abusive or "bad" parents. Is this a common belief? If I don't think kids need to be yelled at, is there something I could say to these people that would be received well? Or is it just "you have your beliefs and I have mine." Would you be ok with other adults yelling at your child (teacher, coach, neighbor, family member)? I'm not talking about verbal abuse-just raised voice talking. It is a common opinion, clearly. I don't think it's born from fact, but from rationalization. I think children are often not treated the way they actually deserve, but are instead treated instead in a way that serves an adult's emotional needs and impulses. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Well, I don't like being yelled at. It doesn't inspire me to work harder, change what I'm doing, or make myself better. So, I think it's a safe bet that the same is true for my kids. That being said, everyone yells at one time or another. If they're angry or stressed or hungry or frustrated. If I yell it's because I don't feel like I'm being heard. I get heard that way, sure, but it's not especially productive. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Well... I have what I dubbed Mom voice. I start off with my regular level but I have one child who does not take me seriously/does not understand the importance of what I have asked to be done until my voice reaches that level. It's not outright yelling, but I feel I have to project a booming voice for the instruction or question to be registered. It has been discussed ad nauseam in our house. Some days are better than other. However, to directly answer the OP, no, I don't think a child *needs* yelling or to be yelled. Communicate with them as you would any human being you respect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm torn. I'm not a yeller and my kids haven't been desensitized to it. However, as an adult, I've been in all sorts of situations where NOT getting rattled by yelling has been to my benefit. I've seen grown women reduced to emotional, ineffectual messes because of volume??? Being able to handle it without getting derailed is a life skill. It's one you'd prefer not to use, but it's a tool nonetheless. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I would NOT be okay with another adult yelling at my child... unless it was necessary for safety reasons (iow, one of my children running from somebody and into danger, or one of my children at a distance and doing something dangerous. I am naturally a very loud person. We yell frequently... everything from across the house "I Love You," to "Get OFF of that entertainment center/cabinet/table" (ahem... The Marvelous Flying Marco), so I'm afraid my children are so used to the loudness of it all that even if they needed to be yelled at, to keep them safe, they may not pay attention. Some of my earliest memories are of my father telling me, at least a dozen times daily, "Inside voice, Aimee". I *am* actively trying to curb that, though, as DS6 is very sensitive to people being loud (yelling). I yell too much and I need to stop. So, I think that while there are exceptions to most rules (including this), I do NOT believe that children NEED to be yelled at (again, there are exceptions and some children may need that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Dh and I are not at all yellers so it's not something my dds are used to. When they were young it upset them a great deal to be yelled at by anyone. Now that they are teens it doesn't bother them as much but they don't choose to spend much time with anyone who yells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I try to be the best parent I can be, but I'm not perfect because I'm human. I've yelled at times I shouldn't have done it. When I mess up, I apologize to them. I want to teach them that most of all. My parents yelled at each other, me, and my sisters. They actually yelled at each other quite a bit, but would always make up. The yelling decreased as I got older. Somehow I never thought they didn't love each other, though. I think I realized that no two people are going to get along 100% of the time. People are going to get frustrated and angry with each other, but that doesn't mean the love stops. My parents were married for over 53 years when my mom died last year. Despite the mistakes they made as parents, I turned out just fine. I'm well-adjusted and have been happily married for 24 years. (They spanked us, too!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 My goodness, yes. My mother worked as a waitress once, and the restaurant manager came out and yelled at her and another waitress for some reason (irrelevant as to why). Mom shrugged it off and went back to work. The other woman burst into tears, ran out of the store, and never came back to work again. Mom was more stunned over the other woman's reaction than she was at the restaurant manager's tone of voice. I think there's something to be said for learning the life skill of dealing with other people's yelling. :iagree: I had an incident last month where I took a small group of girls to the American Girl cafe for my dd's birthday. Because of allergies, I did not buy a birthday package. I have done this actually 3 previous years and it was great. We still got red carpet service. And we've been in there a few times when it was not a birthday, and same thing. Always a super fun outing. To take this group of girls, it was going to run probably $150 no problem to do a meal and dessert. It took 15 minutes to have the waitress acknowledge us. The service was substandard for a chain. There was no greeting to allow us to even say it was a birthday we were celebrating. The girls had to ask for stuff for their dolls. Our food came at different times. Mine was cold. I complained to the waitress. I didn't yell at all. I calmly but firmly listed all the problems and said I was not impressed and I'll be writing a letter. She started crying and sent over a manager. Never saw her again. It was WAY over the top unless something else was going on in her life (in which case, maybe she shouldn't have been working that day). The manager was very gracious and cut us half off our meal and gave the girls free gift bags. And I told the girls, if you pay for something, you are entitled to get what you pay for. American Girl cafe is marketed as an experience restaurant. I do agree it's a very important life skill not to let other people's emotions affect you. I had a hard time with this growing up and I try to regularly remind my kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 My goodness, yes. My mother worked as a waitress once, and the restaurant manager came out and yelled at her and another waitress for some reason (irrelevant as to why). Mom shrugged it off and went back to work. The other woman burst into tears, ran out of the store, and never came back to work again. Mom was more stunned over the other woman's reaction than she was at the restaurant manager's tone of voice. I think there's something to be said for learning the life skill of dealing with other people's yelling. I don't cry, but I have called them out on it. Especially if it was not warranted and unprofessional. I once was yelled at by some dim bulb of a manager at a job. It was a minor mistake. She screamed at me in front of customers. I told her I had no respect for her comments made in such an unprofessional manner. The higher up manager sided with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I think kids need to experience the consequences of their actions, and sometimes that consequence is that you have annoyed your parent so much that she or gets frustrated and yells. It's part of life. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinmyboys Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 My question was coming from an incident with dh. The last year, DH has only been able to be home a few times and this weekend was one. I felt like he was doing a lot of yelling, so I privately and nicely mentioned it to him. It was just stuff like "you are supposed to be getting ready for baseball and you are looking at your baseball cards." Nothing really mean, just frustrated yelling. I very occasionally yell when I am frustrated, but I try not to. Dh really surprised me by saying he thought kids needed to be yelled at to learn how to get ready on time. And that yelling is a consequence of bad behavior. I have 4 kids with him and had never heard him say anything like that so I was surprised. Like I said, I get yelling when you are supposed to be leaving and a kid is dawdling. That is frustrating. But, to me, I don't purposefully yell. It is more a reflection of my emotions not being in control at the moment than a consequence for the kid. Anyway, I think we got it worked out. And I do agree that it is good for kids to know that sometimes they make people frustrated. But I think that happens enough because even though I try to stay calm with them, I do occasionally get frustrated. I don't need to add yelling on purpose. In dh's case, I think he was mostly yelling out of frustration and then telling me it isn't bad to do so, because kids need to learn that their behavior is frustrating. I guess I sort of see that side. In our specific case, I don't think DH is home enough to become frustrated by the kids. Of course I have purposefully yelled when some one was about to touch something hot, or a non swimmer was getting to close to the pool. As far as coaches, my oldest had a flag football coach at the y when he was six who was a motivational yeller. I didn't think he yelled in a bad way, but it really bothered my son. I think it was a good life experience for him though. That son also plays competitive baseball and has had the same coach for four years. That coach has never yelled (except to be heard). It is amazing. I have seen some other coaches that I would never let my son play for because of the way they yell at the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomtoCandJ Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I yell because otherwise I tend to be ignored :( 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Come to think about it, there have been a couple times when I declined to participate in something / send my kids because the person in charge was a yeller. I mean yelling is their normal voice for certain things. No thanks, I aspire to a more peaceful life. :P My kids' first preschool teacher (when they were 2.5yo) was a yeller/screamer. Thankfully she (or maybe her boss) decided that she was better suited for other work. My kids went to that same preschool for 3 years and no other adult ever yelled AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 My goodness, yes. My mother worked as a waitress once, and the restaurant manager came out and yelled at her and another waitress for some reason (irrelevant as to why). Mom shrugged it off and went back to work. The other woman burst into tears, ran out of the store, and never came back to work again. Mom was more stunned over the other woman's reaction than she was at the restaurant manager's tone of voice. I think there's something to be said for learning the life skill of dealing with other people's yelling. But, on the flip side, it's possible she had that reaction because she was yelled at abusively as a kid. I still think the OP's question is odd. I think in a group for practical reasons that raised voices are necessary occasionally. But I don't think that should be called "yelling." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Dh really surprised me by saying he thought kids needed to be yelled at to learn how to get ready on time. And that yelling is a consequence of bad behavior. I have 4 kids with him and had never heard him say anything like that so I was surprised. Like I said, I get yelling when you are supposed to be leaving and a kid is dawdling. That is frustrating. But, to me, I don't purposefully yell. It is more a reflection of my emotions not being in control at the moment than a consequence for the kid. When applied with that intention, I agree with Joanne, it's "hitting with words." It's manipulation. It's coercion of behavior predicated on threat of harm. Imagine if you yelled at your husband every time he behaved in a way you interpreted as "bad." Or if he yelled at you as a consequence his frustrations when you're even peripherally involved. You two would likely change your behavior to either avoid whatever inspires the yelling, or learn how to stand your ground. You might try it on others. If you grew up in an environment where that's "just what ya do," how could you be expected to not take it, and then turn around and dish it out when you could be relatively assured of success? There's a reason we don't yell at neighbors and strangers when they frustrate us - they can threaten us and hurt us back. Kids can't. They're vulnerable. Yelling at, and threatening vulnerable people is a social skill that can be unquestionably effective, but is hardly socially appropriate. Except when it's aimed against our own kids. That's messed up. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I don't think I need to be yelled at to give my best. It makes me feel uncomfortable and intimidated. I figure the same is true for my kids. In the day to day course of things there isn't a lot of yelling happening here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Oh that's true. I'm pretty loud. Maybe *I* wouldn't consider myself to be yelling AT my kids unless I am really mad (which HAS happened...so I would know the difference for myself), but the OP or someone else would see us while I am yelling in a you GOT to listen to me right now kind of way, and think "she is yelling at her kids." Good point. I have had friends comment about my "yelling" at my kids when I didn't actually feel like I was yelling. I needed to get my kids' attention, and going up to them, making eye contact, and speaking softly isn't always realistic in a busy household. I might even sound a little militaristic if my kids have been ignoring me or putzing a lot recently. Is that yelling? Not in my view. Another time, my kids went out to play and they [supposedly] didn't hear me when I called them to come back (we had to go somewhere on a schedule). After what I considered a reasonable amount of looking and calling "normally," I called a little louder. ("[Lastname] Girls" is what I say when I call them.) My friend was there and she was horrified that I would "shout like that" in the neighborhood. She comes from a very different culture, so I assume that was why we saw that differently. It isn't crazy to call loud enough for the kids to hear and come home, is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 About the husband not being home enough to get frustrated with the kids - maybe it was more stressing over having a lot to accomplish in limited time. I know I can get really frustrated when I have made a precision schedule, and someone's putzing can throw it out of whack and cause everyone to miss out on things. I think it is worse, the less time I have to get things done. If I'm honest, I would not say that makes the yelling a good thing for child development. To me that sounds like rationalizing. However, we all rationalize at times, don't we? ;) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Just a different point of view. I am from a loud family. We yell "Come here.", "Phone", "Pass the butter". We don't call names but I admit to lecturing loudly. I know some moms who use a creepy, sweet voice to always speak to their kids. I'm not for abusive language but I avoid those weird, calm types. (switched co-op class over it) Perhaps those who don't know our family think we yell too much. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I yell a lot, unfortunately. But I don't think it's effective and I certainly don't think kids "deserve it". No matter what they do, there is always a better way to communicate (I am not talking about running into traffic incidents). I think people should use "grown up" test - the way you speak to a child - would you speak the same way to an adult? If the answer is "no", then I think it's the wrong way to speak 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Just a different point of view. I am from a loud family. We yell "Come here.", "Phone", "Pass the butter". We don't call names but I admit to lecturing loudly. I know some moms who use a creepy, sweet voice to always speak to their kids. I'm not for abusive language but I avoid those weird, calm types. (switched co-op class over it) Perhaps those who don't know our family think we yell too much. I don't yell. I project! Honestly, I am loud and so are my kids. But in my drama class, my own kids can always be heard in the back of the auditorium. It throws some of the kids for a loop for a bit because I stand in the back and holler "Can't hear you!" And I make a point of always projecting when onstage so I am demonstrating what I want from them. Eventually, they get to where they are amused by my volume and personal style. When the moms come in, they are often a little startled, but they see that the kids take my direction in stride, I am never unkind, and we are having tons of fun. Now at home, I do speak firmly, and sometimes loudly to get my kids' attention. My kids call this yelling. I am not railing at them, but especially with my 2 intense kids, I HAVE to ramp up the intensity myself to communicate that what they're doing is not ok. I tried the whole Michelle Duggar whisper thing and it was like telling my dd "I don't care enough about this issue to make a point to you." She needs me to be focused, direct, firm, and often just a bit louder than normal conversational tone. I guess it's because we ARE so loud that I have to ramp it up a bit to make the point. And I have spoken to adults similarly when things got very serious. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think people should use "grown up" test - the way you speak to a child - would you speak the same way to an adult? If the answer is "no", then I think it's the wrong way to speak This sounds great in theory. Real kids don't act like adults, they don't listen or think or respond like adults. They do need to be handled differently than we handle adults. Parenting exists only because kids need things adults don't need. There are many things I'd never do/say to an adult, that I have a duty to do/say to my kids. Getting my kids to actually respond to what I have to tell them is part of the deal. With an adult, I could shrug my shoulders and say "oh well, I told him." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yelling out of anger or frustration AT a person is wrong. I think it's OK to yell sometimes. Joy, grief, etc...it's OK to let our kids see some of our emotions. In fact, they have these feelings too and we need to model how we handle it. Scream in a pillow, not at your sister. kwim. I often raise my voice to call a child to me. And, I admit that my tone gives away my intentions most of the time. (Is that a "Come and eat dinner?" or is it a "Come and explain the mess you left 20 minutes ago?") I raise my voice to get attention in a crowded room. I use my voice to model and cue, and sometimes that is loud and sometimes it is not. I've also been in too many situations where an abusive person didn't need to raise their volume to "hit" with their words. Then I've seen some who have really nothing to say, but say it all loudly just to keep all eyes in the room on them and away from people who are actually saying something. Volume is only a small factor, really. It can be deceptive to use volume as a main indicator of the healthiness of yelling. Content and the emotions behind it, and the aim matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 This sounds great in theory. Real kids don't act like adults, they don't listen or think or respond like adults. They do need to be handled differently than we handle adults. Parenting exists only because kids need things adults don't need. There are many things I'd never do/say to an adult, that I have a duty to do/say to my kids. Getting my kids to actually respond to what I have to tell them is part of the deal. With an adult, I could shrug my shoulders and say "oh well, I told him." Well, if yelling at your kids produces the desired results, then by all means... I don't yell at my kids bc I need them to respond. I yell bc I am angry that they didn't respond in the first place. I consider it my problem, not theirs. BTW, I actually think that kids act better than adults, but get worse treatment bc our expectations are way higher for them than for adults. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 There's a reason we don't yell at neighbors and strangers when they frustrate us - they can threaten us and hurt us back. If my neighbor is playing around with BB guns in the back yard and damages my home, there is no reason to yell. I discuss the problem with the neighbor, bring in authorities if required and get the damage paid for. The neighbor, as an adult, is held responsible for his actions, and it is not my job to help him make better choices next time. When my 6 year old repeatedly smashes my expensive bike helmet with a large rock because he "forgot" he wasn't supposed to, that is a wholly different situation. There is no discussing the issue rationally with a child who often "forgets" he is not supposed to destroy (or even touch) others' property, there are no authorities (other than DH and myself) to step in and show him the error in his ways and try to guide him down the path of becoming a responsible adult and there is no insurance or responsible party stepping in to pay for damages...and our budget suffers a lot from his destruction. All of Peter's therapists and psychiatrists have emphasized that we need to make our reactions BIG if we want Peter to take any notice. We certainly don't have to be mean, but Peter does not readily notice emotion, so we do react with a loud, firm, "I am VERY upset by this!!" or "PETER, you really hurt Elliot. You MAY NOT hurt other people!!" Wendy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Some thoughts after a discussion with dh last night: Do anyone of you feel that as a society, we've become more sensitive and less tough/able to handle criticism, yelling, etc.? Dh and I were discussing this last night, and I believe so. Our lives are so different than the lives of people living even 100-200 years ago. Has the ease of our life made us unable to handle it when things are tough? Our discussion came out of him seeing a statistic on veteran suicides. In our pondering of why there would be so many now when men have fought wars for all of time, we discussed the fact that we don't see people die anymore. In the past, people died at home, in accidents on the farm, etc. Life was hard and most pushed on through. If you are seeing someone die for the first time on a battle field, how much more disturbing would it be? Are they put on medications which make suicide more likely to happen? I saw a thread about adults being diagnosed with Asperger's and noticed how many talked about adults having it but not being diagnosed. It seemed that most of those adults didn't need a diagnosis because they developed coping skills and went on with their lives. Do we as a society actually cripple kids with it by trying to intervene too much with therapy, medications, etc.? Does putting the label on it and treating it, tell the child he can't cope with it? Obviously, I don't think we should stand off and do nothing when someone is hurting. I'm just asking if we do too much. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yes, I think we are, to some extent, setting our kids up to be hypersensitive older kids and adults. It's become easier and easier to protect our kids from emotionally hard stuff. (Physically hard stuff too.) Plus, we're more often there to see their struggles, vs. them being out in the world without adult supervision when they have a mishap or a power struggle or a scare. There have been some times when I've felt the maternal urge to protect my kids against the realities of life, e.g., your entry was sub-par and you came in dead last; you did a great job but you're getting a participation ribbon because you weren't what the judges prefer; this math is too hard but it's not going to get easier. Funny thing is that my kids always surprise me at times like that. Kids have emotional reserves that we don't necessarily see. Let's let them discover their strength. As far as yelling, I don't like the way my home feels when yelling happens a lot. I don't like doing it and I don't like hearing it. I don't want to raise yellers. So I try not to do it (much). But not because I think my kids can't take it. Lord knows I lived through a lot of yelling, screaming, and really creative cussing throughout my childhood. Oddly enough, my memories are of a loving home in spite of the yelling. Recently I saw excerpts from an article about this topic. It links trigger warnings, etc. to the unnecessary coddling we do for kids. And "political correctness" that is absurd. For example, asking someone "where were you born" if they are obviously Asian or whatever. You can't do that because it could be interpreted as "you aren't an American" or whatever. We can't take anything at face value any more, everything has to be filtered through layers and layers of "what if they think we think ____." Oh and the whole "we're not going to have boys' and girls' sections in the stores any more." Never mind that 99.??? % of kids view themselves as "boys" or "girls." Perhaps those 99.??? % are wrong and bad because they are hurting those who feel differently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I yell. I'm working on it. I don't know anyone who thinks kids deserve it, all the moms I know share that they struggle with it as well. We all beat outselves up about it. It's one more thing to feel guilty about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I would quibble and debate with him in more depth over details and other factors, but in short, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I don't think not yelling =coddling. In my house not yelling = learning how to express your anger, disappointment, frustration in a way that the recipient can understand and learn from. My husband grew up in a household of yellers. He thinks he had the most loving home and the bestest childhood on the planet. And yet!! He doesn't like yelling at our kids and cautions me when my yelling gets out of hand. Why is that? If it wasn't a big at all? I can't stand PC. I can't understand at all!!! the whole non-gender thing. I don't like or understand a lot of things that are happening in our society today. But at the same time every generation has always longed for "good ol' days" and every generation thought that "today's kids" are so much worse than before. I think today's life and today's kids are not better or worse, just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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