could your 11 yo do this writing assignment?

[shinyhappypeople]

Could your 11 yo sit down and a write a 7 paragraph essay in one sitting?  Assume the topic is assigned (something like "write about the effects of water erosion on the natural landscape")  Start to finish.  Brainstorming.  Planning. Rough draft.  Editing.  Final draft.  

 

A friends daughter just did it for the CCSS test and I'm dumbfounded. Seven paragraphs, one sitting, start to finish. 11 years old.  

 

 

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My nearly-11yo could do it and frequently does, but he is NOT average in this ability. It would be totally inappropriate to require a seven paragraph essay in one day in a school setting, especially for a test!

 

Do they have any idea at all what they're doing in schools anymore??

[Hyacinth]

No. My 12-yo couldn't do that (well) in one sitting.

[Library Momma]

What is the CCSS?

[JenneinCA]

My youngest will be 11 in about a week.

 

And there is no way he could do that. Absolutely no way.

 

(My daughter might have been able to do it at 11.

My older son could not have at 11 and most likely could not do it now at 14 either. He has written essays for the ACT and the CHSPE, but neither were seven paragraphs long and neither were edited or anything more than a very rough draft.)

[happypamama]

My 13yo probably could, or at least there would be a good chance she could, IF she knew enough about the topic to do so. But at eleven, probably not.

[shinyhappypeople]

What is the CCSS?

 

Common Core State Standards.  I think the actual test is called "smarter balanced."

[Arcadia]

If it is for California's 5th grade state writing test, most of the kids in my district don't care about how they score in that test.

 

My 5th grader would have type 7 one sentence paragraphs if he would even type anything at all.

[MysteryJen]

Out of all my kids, only my oldest could have done that. But he is planning to be a writer. None of my other kids could do that. I am pretty sure I could not have done that at 11.

 

Yet I managed college and grad school just fine.

[RootAnn]

My dd#1 couldn't do it. She's writing phobic & it is a battle to get even a paragraph out of her.

My dd#2 could do it if it was a creative writing prompt. She'd write a beautiful story. A non-fiction prompt? No way. She worked through writing some decent one paragraph summaries of the last several weeks in the third part of Treasured Conversations.

My dd#3 (younger than age given) could do a couple of paragraphs if she had a document source in front of her, but they wouldn't be great paragraphs.

[Library Momma]

Common Core State Standards.  I think the actual test is called "smarter balanced."

 

That is what I thought you meant.  My kids are taking them now.  My daughter (12yo 7th grade) took written portion on Tuesday.  She says that it just stated to write a "multiple paragraph essay."   She had to write an argumentative essay on solar panels and she wrote 4 paragraphs.   My son (10yo 5th grade ) will have his essay portion next week.

 

She also says that while she could have written a 7 paragraph essay in one sitting if necessary, they did not give you enough information to fill 7 paragraphs, and she would have been just be repeating herself. 

[shinyhappypeople]

That is what I thought you meant.  My kids are taking them now.  My daughter (12yo 7th grade) took written portion on Tuesday.  She says that it just stated to write a "multiple paragraph essay."   She had to write an argumentative essay on solar panels and she wrote 4 paragraphs.   My son (10yo 5th grade ) will have his essay portion next week.

 

She also says that while she could have written a 7 paragraph essay in one sitting if necessary, they did not give you enough information to fill 7 paragraphs, and she would have been just be repeating herself. 

 

Interesting.   I wonder where she got 7 paragraphs from?  Her grade's instructions might be different or maybe it's just how she interpreted the directions.

[MysteryJen]

My kids have noticed that their friends are writing longer papers, but there is a lot of padding. Mostly because their teachers have assigned a particular length. Dd1 edited some friends' papers and she said that the writing was fine, they just didn't say anything.

 

My kids write well when they are excited to say something. They write horribly (with decent grammar though) imo, on random standardized test prompts. I am not sure how hard I should work to fix that.

[HSmomof2]

Could your 11 yo sit down and a write a 7 paragraph essay in one sitting? Assume the topic is assigned (something like "write about the effects of water erosion on the natural landscape") Start to finish. Brainstorming. Planning. Rough draft. Editing. Final draft.

 

A friends daughter just did it for the CCSS test and I'm dumbfounded. Seven paragraphs, one sitting, start to finish. 11 years old.

Not just 11-year-olds.....this was part of my 9-year-old, 4th grade Dd's Smarter Balanced test yesterday. She came home completely stressed, with a headache and feeling very defeated. And she's an excellent student and writer. Just yet another reason we're coming home next year.

[TCB]

I thought at first that they had to just write it cold, off the top of their head, on what they knew about the subject. If so, then almost certainly not. However, if they were given information to write from then my dd11 could probably do it, but it would depend on how much time they had. My dd11 does not like writing and has always been a writing resistor, but, thanks to SWB's writing programs, she could probably make a pretty good attempt at it. I love WWE and WWS because of how well they have taught both my kids.

[HSmomof2]

My nearly-11yo could do it and frequently does, but he is NOT average in this ability. It would be totally inappropriate to require a seven paragraph essay in one day in a school setting, especially for a test!

 

Do they have any idea at all what they're doing in schools anymore??

To answer your question, from what I've seen, no. 😊

[Lori D.]

meh. Quantity does not mean quality.

 

JMO, but that type of assignment does not encourage high quality writing and critical thinking as prep for high school, college, jobs, and for real world communicating. It just encourages students to flood the page with words. I suppose there might be a use for that, if one of Ford Prefect's theories is right:

 

"One of the things Ford Prefect had always found hardest to understand about human beings was their habit of continually stating and repeating the obvious, as in 'It’s a nice day,' or 'You’re very tall,' or 'Oh dear you seem to have fallen down a thirty-foot well, are you all right?' At first Ford had formed a theory to account for this strange behavior. If human beings don’t keep exercising their lips… their mouths probably seize up. After a few months’ consideration and observation he abandoned this theory in favor of a new one. If they don’t keep on exercising their lips… their brains start working..." — The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

 

;)  :tongue_smilie:  :laugh:

 

[HS Mom in NC]

7 paragraphs in one sitting on an assigned topic?

 

The oldest at 11?  Yes.  No problem.  But then she's such a gifted writer her Creative Writing professor nominated her as the best writer at her community college this year.

 

My middle kid?  HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA.  Heavens no.

 

My youngest is 9.  She likes to write.  Sooo, maybe? When she's 11, that is.

[sassenach]

I think it's insane.  Completely insane and not at all developmentally appropriate.

 

Both of my kids did the SBAC through their charter and they both were able to write an essay, but who knows what the quality was.  DD10 is a gifted writer and really cared about the test (despite me actively downplaying it), and she felt pretty good about her efforts on the essay. However, her spelling is atrocious, so who knows what her actual score will be.  Ds12 is an average writer, really didn't care about the test, and felt like the essay he wrote was "good enough."  I'm both interested and apprehensive about their scores (but not seeing them as a reflection of their actual abilities).

 

The thing that I was reminded, once again, is that you would really have to teach to this test in order to score well.  It's looking for very specific things and if you spent the whole year teaching to them, you could probably get kids to produce adequate results. 

[sassenach]

http://dianeravitch.net/2015/04/29/reader-the-common-core-tests-cannot-be-independently-verified-for-validity-and-reliability/

 

This is an interesting blog post about the Smarter Balance test.

[SilverMoon]

My particular 11yo? Ah, no. He would list all the facts, and they'd be in order, as concisely as possible. The end.

[dirty ethel rackham]

My 14yodd would struggle to do that and she is a good writer.  Excellent quality, but she needs to take her time.  My older would not have been able to do it either.  They struggled with the SAT writing section and we had to say "good enough" on those portions rather than push harder.  Both are doing fine in college, but both are STEM majors at small LACs and got through their humanities classes ok. 

[Targhee]

My child at 11 would not have been able to it. But we weren't "training up" to do it either. Glad we aren't made to take CCSS assessments here!

[Ellie]

Could your 11 yo sit down and a write a 7 paragraph essay in one sitting?  Assume the topic is assigned (something like "write about the effects of water erosion on the natural landscape")  Start to finish.  Brainstorming.  Planning. Rough draft.  Editing.  Final draft.  

 

A friends daughter just did it for the CCSS test and I'm dumbfounded. Seven paragraphs, one sitting, start to finish. 11 years old.  

 

No.

 

I didn't do anything like that until high school.

[8filltheheart]

Just think Lincoln and his 272 word Gettysburg Address vs. Edward Everett and 2 hrs of something no one remembers. 

 

My kids cannot write a huge volume in a short period of time, but what they do write is worth reading.   :)

[kirstenhill]

My daughter turns 11 in a couple weeks.  There's no way she could do it now, and probably not a year from now (when she is 11, but nearly 12) either unless this year is miraculous in the growth of her writing ability.  She could do a very good paragraph in one sitting if she was familiar with the topic.  Multiple paragraphs would definitely take her several days and probably some scaffolding to do well.

[KrissiK]

No. We've been working at writing, a lot, but he doesn't like it and it's like pulling teeth. It might be easier on him if he had a transcriber and could just tell it all verbally and not worry about the physical process of writing it down.

[JDoe]

Could your 11 yo sit down and a write a 7 paragraph essay in one sitting?

 

 

In my dreams, maybe. ;)

[JessReplanted]

I would be interested to see what those 11 year-olds produced.  My 12 year old would not be able to do that well in one sitting.

However, if he was under the gun, I think he could produce something that was  7 paragraphs-ish and which would fit the criteria (in his limited, 12 year old opinion).

[Meriwether]

Neither my 11 year old nor my 10 year old could do that. Hmmm. Well actually Dd11 did do one paper almost that long in one day. It was a rough draft, though, not a polished paper.

[Mom-ninja.]

No

[Dmmetler]

My DD does that sort of thing for her blog posts on a regular basis, but they're topics she chooses, and usually is writing from one or more sources (usually science journal articles).

 

 

[BusyMom5]

I'm not sure. She could physically write that much, and she could probably divide it up into paragraphs, but they would not be well organized, she would definitely be stressed out!  The entire thing would not flow well, it would be a series of sentences that she just wrote as she thought them up, most likely unorganized, with topics cropping up in several paragraphs as she tried to fill the page.  Depending on the topic, she might have quite a bit to say.  If it's the wrong writing prompt, something she isn't interested in, I don't think she'd be able to write much at all. 

 

 

Our goals for 6th grade have been to cut out unnecessary information, duplicating information, organize our thoughts into related topics that flow well, and that sometimes even if something is interesting, it doesn't fit our topic, and must be left out. I feel like this CCSS test is the opposite of what I am trying to do.  It would encourage filler-writing- not writing a good essay.

 

 

[Wabi Sabi]

If he had to handwrite it? No. He has excellent handwriting, but his hand would tire before he could get seven paragraphs down on paper. 

If he was allowed to type? He'd get far more down on the page, but he wouldn't be able to edit it on his own, it would be riddled with mistakes and not well organized. He still relies on me to help proofread his rough drafts for mechanics, spelling, etc. 

[EndOfOrdinary]

We have been prepping for the SAT, so at this point my 10.5 year old could. Writing instruction was the major focus of last year because I knew this was coming. He doesn't like it, but he can do it.

[Farrar]

Neither of my 10.5 yos would be able to produce anything worth reading that would be that long and written in one sitting without any outside help.

 

They could sit down and write a good bit in one sitting and routinely do. Maybe even "7 paragraphs" worth, though they're not so hot at dividing up by paragraphs yet, honestly. Freewriting a la Brave Writer has helped us immensely with just getting lots of words on a page all at once. And they can write short pieces that are pretty good - like a single solid paragraph on a clear topic. But taking those two skills to the next level to write something longer that's clear and directed isn't something I would expect them to do for a little while. I was considered a pretty gifted writer in school and took honors classes at magnet schools that were considered in the top five in the state... and no one asked me to do that until 10th grade. Essays were either in untimed situations or much shorter before then.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Nope

 

What a ridiculous assignment for an 11 year old. 

[shinyhappypeople]

Yes. Not a big deal ...the dbq was taught in 5th, so the state testing english essays by 7th were pretty easy. They generally channel House.....attention getter, topic, details, explanation of details, close & wrap. The hardest part is maintaining good penmanship while writing fast. 2nd hardest part is lowering the writing level to gen ed.... no implied thesis is allowed in middle school, no matter what your fav author does.

 

What's "dbq"?

[Wildiris]

My DD-11 took the Smarter Balance Test last week. She disliked the essay part because she said the prompt was to write about the inventions of a six-year-old. My DD was not impressed. 

 

We took the test so the charter school we attend would get credit for the number of students tested. I do not think this test will accurately reflect what my student knows. Like the SAT, ACT, or AP testing, a student needs to do test prep to perform well on the test. I look at the Smarter Balance type of testing as a way to hone testing skills. I do not expect my DD to have done well on this test because I did not do any kind of test prep with her. I wanted to see what her score would be without any kind of preparation.

[Mommy22alyns]

In one sitting? Absolutely not.  Spaced out? Yes.

[JoJosMom]

Could she have done it?  Yes.

 

Could she have done it well?  No.

 

What exactly is this exercise to accomplish?  How in the heck is this considered to be an appropriate expectation for 11 year olds?!?  Yikes.

[Farrar]

I hate these conversations. Many experts feel these aren't the best use of kids' time and energy at this age, but if you argue against this sort of thing to the people who are for it or sometimes just the people who happened to get kids who are pretty naturally gifted at writing, then you're underestimating our children, against rigor, wasting your time as a homeschooler, etc. etc.

[idnib]

No he couldn't, because writing is his weakest area. He could probably do 2-3 good paragraphs with 3-4 sentences each. I will say I could have done it at that age. One I learned outlining in 5th grade and had a way to organize my thoughts and formalize a writing plan, writing became much easier for me.

 

I'm tutoring a public-schooled 3rd grader and he told me his class is writing a 2-page essay over a few days. They are working on it only in class because the teacher decided the parents were helping too much and basically doing the research at the library and over-prompting the kids too much. I'll be interested to read his essay when he's done with it. He's pretty excited, I have to say.

[idnib]

I'm not sure this is new. A long time ago I found some rubrics for assessing writing before CCSS came out. I can't find the handy dandy table I found then, but I did find the 2007 document for assessing grade 4 writing for the old standardized tests. In it there are samples of what types of writing receive 1-4 points. Page 31 is the beginning of the 4-point essay examples. And keep in mind this was for grade 4, not 11 year-olds.

[Mabelen]

I will let you know next week when my dd takes it. She has already mentioned it is too much and that she is sure to run out of time.

[Farrar]

I'm not sure this is new. A long time ago I found some rubrics for assessing writing before CCSS came out. I can't find the handy dandy table I found then, but I did find the 2007 document for assessing grade 4 writing for the old standardized tests. In it there are samples of what types of writing receive 1-4 points. Page 31 is the beginning of the 4-point essay examples. And keep in mind this was for grade 4, not 11 year-olds.

 

But 2007 is pretty new. I mean, that's less than ten years ago.

 

It's been a slow slide toward having kids do more and more at younger and younger ages at higher and higher stakes and with faster and faster times.

[8filltheheart]

I have no problem with 11 yr olds being expected to be able to write multiple paragraph compositions describing the impact of whatever, or the cycle of whatever. That is an age appropriate skill. Where I am glad I have 100% ability ignore government education goals is expecting a timed polished product of that length especially when combined with no foreknowledge of the topic. It isn't representative of any real life skill. Exam essays reflect topics being studied. Assigned compositions give time for research and thoughtful organization. Timed parameters on random topics reflect very little about actual writing skills and a whole lot more about student ability to perform under certain conditions.

[idnib]

But 2007 is pretty new. I mean, that's less than ten years ago.

 

It's been a slow slide toward having kids do more and more at younger and younger ages at higher and higher stakes and with faster and faster times.

 

Sorry, yes, I should have worded it better. It's relatively new, but not something new to CCSS. I was just trying to clarify that because the CCSS was mentioned in the first post.

[shinyhappypeople]

I have no problem with 11 yr olds being expected to be able to write multiple paragraph compositions describing the impact of whatever, or the cycle of whatever. That is an age appropriate skill. Where I am glad I have 100% ability ignore government education goals is expecting a timed polished product of that length especially when combined with no foreknowledge of the topic. It isn't representative of any real life skill. Exam essays reflect topics being studied. Assigned compositions give time for research and thoughtful organization. Timed parameters on random topics reflect very little about actual writing skills and a whole lot more about student ability to perform under certain conditions.

 

Yeah, the "at one sitting in testing conditions" is what made my eyes bug out a little.  My 10 yo could complete that assignment adequately. She'd pass.  My 11 you would probably submit something that looked like this because she doesn't enjoy writing, but she does love art.

[lllll]

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