Beware: This is a vent.

[PeacefulChaos]

Thank you to everyone for  your responses.  Seriously.  I really appreciate it.  :)

[Guest submarines]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[BlessedMom]

(((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))

[zoobie]

I would want to run far, far away too. :grouphug:

 

Would DH's job skills be portable? Something's been telling you to GO for a long time. Maybe listen to that voice. You could always move back. Will you always regret not trying it?

[Truscifi]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Excelsior! Academy]

Our church all but split a year or so ago.  It is amazing to hear the opinions and beliefs of those that left and how the rest of us that stayed are going to ......

 

Church and beliefs are very personal.  Read the Bible.  Compare your church's teachings with what you read and decide if they line up.  If they do, stick by 'em.  If they don't, move on.  Kindly reply to anyone, anyone, that inquires that you have done such.  Then pass the bean dip.

[hillfarm]

Perhaps your dh could gently tell his df that you are both searching for direction from God regarding where He wants you to be, and that you will obey that direction. You will take your FIL's counsel under advisement, but you will not make a decision until you feel the Lord has led you to one.

 

And then it sounds like Boundary Time for you all. You and your dh need to set some boundaries regarding topics that you will not discuss outside your immediate family, regarding what you will do if your IL's decide to start talking to your dc about it, regarding what actually would cause you to seek another church, and how counsel from your FIL should be weighed and integrated with your dh's position as head of your household.

 

Sorry you are experiencing this. I can imagine how hard it is for your FIL to have felt so challenged and insulted and then to have to face the fact that not everyone in his extended family sees things the way he does. Hopefully all this is motivated out of his love and concern for you all and not just a desire to control you, or mold you in his image. Regardless, unless you receive divine direction to leave, I would stay where you are.

 

[SadieMarie]

Sometimes change is good.  It can be really invigorating.  I love moving.  Before we bought this house I moved every couple of years.  Now sometimes, no matter how much I love it here, I think about how fun it would be to move someplace completely new and different.  It would be an adventure.

 

Homeschooling was never a calling for me so I totally get that.  And why can't you get up at nine?  Get up at nine if you want.  You are actually in charge of your own life and your expectations (lol no comments from people who know me please, about unrealistic expectations and you know, do as I say and not as I do).  

 

My in-laws live halfway across the country and that is just about right.  We just got back from a visit and there were tears and Jerry Springer moments.  So even though I don't get to vote on your life, I vote that you guys get the eff out.  

 

 

[Cinder]

:grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would move away from the ILs.  

[sunflowerlady]

I am sorry. That sound like things are tough all the way around.

[nevergiveup]

You sound really dissatisfied with most aspects of your life.  If it is not the life you want to live, you are the only one who can change it.

You said leaving is "kind of impossible".  Is it really impossible, or is the thought of it overwhelming since you are dealing with so much else?

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

[idnib]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

I love being home with my kids and homeschooling, but I would have a hard time if I felt like I didn't have a choice to do it. That would be very difficult for me.

 

Honestly, in your situation, I would probably move. Between the in-laws, the lack of school choice, and the shortage of cultural activities, it's a lot to deal with. Life is short.

[trulycrabby]

I am sorry you are so stressed! :grouphug: Where you and your DH go to church is no one's business! I don't care how well meaning your in-laws are, they are stepping so far over boundaries that I wouldn't hesitate to tell them whenever it is brought up. If he brings up religion, leave. If you have to cut them out of your lives for awhile, then you have to do it because they must respect your individual right to choose where to worship.

[T'smom]

Why is moving impossible? Your dh could start looking for another job.

[PeacefulChaos]

Why is moving impossible? Your dh could start looking for another job.

His job isn't high demand. Neither of us have any sort of special job skills or degree.

Add to that he just got a small promotion where he is now, which I'm thankful for. Neither of us really can say we want to turn our backs on this when it's something that finally happened in our favor, you know?

So not impossible.... But really really hard. And maybe not advisable.

[minuway]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

[Forget-Me-Not]

I"m sorry.  That sounds tiring and very frustrating. 

It's time to tell the ILs to back off about church.  "We've made our decision.  It's not up for discussion anymore."  If they continue, then get up and leave, whether you are in public or private.  Walk away or hang up the phone. 

 

Honestly, your FIL sounds a little . . . fixated, I guess? Are you seeing signs of dementia or mental illness? 

 

[MomtoCandJ]

Hugs.... That just stinks all around

[texasmama]

(((hugs)))  I'd move to the  moon.

[Laurie4b]

I don't have much patience reading about your FIL right now. (Not you, OP, but that obsession with the externals.) In the Middle East, Isis is sweeping through countries and Christans and others are being driven out and wiped out of areas they've lived since the time of Christ. Muslims are killing other Muslims. Ebola is kiliing people in West Africa. Israel and Hamas are in a bad cycle again. Why is there any energy to care what color the stupid curtains are?

[dirty ethel rackham]

{{Peaceful Chaos}}  I am so sorry you are dealing with this.  It has to be frustrating for you.  I think it would be helpful to look at the things you can change rather than the things you can't.  If you can't move, then you can't.  Not everyone is in a situation to just pick up and leave.  I would encourage your dh to be open to the possibility of moving and looking elsewhere, with the expectation that nothing may come up for a while.  In the meantime, what can you change.  Probably not your ILs.  They sound bats#it crazy (I just love that expression:).)  But, you can change your interactions with them.  Boundaries, Boundaries, Boundaries.  Read Joanne's stuff about Pass the Beandip.  There is no reason you should have to put up with that.  You need to enforce the boundary that you are not going to discuss religion or other sensitive topics.  When they try to bring it up, enforce that boundary and change the subject.  If they cannot stop themselves from overstepping the boundary, then you have to leave.  It may come down to drastically limited contact, but that is for your sanity.  I think almost all of us here have had to enforce boundaries with people who just couldn't leave something alone and respect other people's choices.  It is often a painful process, but also a very freeing process. 

 

I think you need to give yourself permission to homeschool in a way that works for your family ... not some outsider's notion of what it should look like.  If a 9 am wakeup time works for you, then do it.  I have a friend whose family keeps really late hours.  It was a choice they made when her dh worked really long hours.  The only way the kids could have a relationship with their father was to be awake when he got home.  That meant their day didn't start until late morning.  They knew that they wouldn't be able to take advantage of some morning activities, but that was OK for them.  They were happy with their choice.  When their kids wanted to do things that involved being out the door much earlier, they adjusted.  One kid wanted to go to high school and that meant leaving the house before 7 am.  He managed. 

 

If you can't change the physical place where you live, what can you change about your life that would give you more satisfaction?  I hear you on not feeling like I have worth and value because I have spent the last 18 years at home raising/schooling kids.  I still have one at home that I am homeschooling, so I am not ready for my 3rd act, but most of my friends are.  They have moved on or are in the process of moving onto new things and I often feel left behind.  What I realized is that I have to create opportunities where I feel important.  What that looks like for you will probably look different than what it looks like for me.  I am struggling with this, but I am working on it.  I have experience homeschooling so I gathered some other experienced moms and helped put together some workshops for newbies.  We have one next week on Homeschooler College Application process 101.  I am connecting with other moms who have not been in my social circle, but are in a similar boat - still homeschooling but fewer kids at home and less contact with other homeschoolers due to increasing independence of their children.    (I am not always this positive about my here-and-now, but I had a great catch-up lunch with a dear friend that turned into a 4 hour chat - so happy!)  Not that I am saying that this is what you should do, but that you may need to find out what can feed you during this difficult time. 

 

Sometimes, a few sessions with an understanding counselor can help you deal with the difficult parts of your life and, more importantly, help you find joy and enjoyment that get you through the rough spots. 

 

I hope things get easier.

[kiana]

I do think you should leave ...

 

your ILs.

 

Every time he opens his mouth. Man. What a piece of work.

[wintermom]

Well, when I'm about to feed my dogs and they are misbehave, I remove the food bowl. They love their food - and they make a very quick change in behaviour. What kind of "food bowl" do you and your dh have with the ILS? Is it your company, the grandkids? The ILS are misbehaving and need a reality check. They obviously LOVE their new church, and they enjoy trying to bring you to it. Remove that out of the equation, and you'll probably remove a big chunk of that problem (or see a lot less of them).

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[El...]

Oh, that sounds so, so tacky of him!  I'm sorry.  I think there are some ways to get out of the repeated conversations, if you plan what you are going to do and say in advance, but no, leaving a church is not something I'd do out of some sort of strained family loyalty pressure.

 

:grouphug:

[DawnM]

Wow.  Very sorry you are dealing with all of this.  I would find a whole new place to live in neither "choice."

[Ellie]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Honestly, Mr. Ellie and I would probably have left when your FIL did, if not before, because the things that offend him also offend us.

 

However, your FIL is acting like a horse's patoot. I hope Mr PeacefulChaos figures it out and takes a position, which is what he needs to do.I'm kind of thinking that he should have stood up in the middle of your FIL's tirade and walked out of the house with you. JMHO.

 

I feel your pain, dear. Praying for you and the whole situation. :grouphug:

[Seasider]

If I were you, and did decide to leave my current church, not for a million dollars would you get me under the eaves of FIL's place. There has to be some neutral ground.

[Peaceful Isle]

Hugs to you :(

[SadieMarie]

I am sorry you are so stuck.  Maybe it would help to focus on the dissatisfying things in your life that you can change.  Sleep until nine and lighten up on some of the expectations you have put on yourself.  Try to find some fun in the day to day kwim?  Sometimes when hsing was getting to be really a drag I would just declare a project day.  Everyone gets to pick an enjoyable project (including me) and just dive in.  You could also start doing some research about moving, just to move your focus a bit to a better place in the future.  For us, and this is just me, I would not accept, as an adult, my parents or in-laws giving me ultimatums like that.  I would cut them loose first.  But that is just me and I totally understand that others value family differently than I do and would not make that decision.  So good luck with whatever you decide to do and I hope your FIL comes to his senses and sees how much pain he is causing for the people he loves.

[Cera]

I don't think there is anything wrong with really looking at your options.  Research some areas you might be interested in and look at the job market.  Deciding if moving is even an option is the first step.  If it is you will need to sit down together and choose what to do.  If it isn't you can focus your energy on figuring out how to make your life in your current location what you want it to be.  

 

Fwiw, I left an area like you are describing for an area about 30 minutes outside of a big(ish) city.  It was hard but so worth it.  I am much, much happier and my kids absolutely love all the opportunities they have here.

[Aiden]

I agree with those who say to look into the possibility of moving, assuming your husband is on board with that. He can start looking and applying for jobs, and you won't move unless and until you have a plan that includes an acceptable job somewhere else--it may happen sooner than you think or not at all, but you'll never know if the door's open unless you push at it a bit.

 

WRT the ILs ... my husband and I have a policy: He deals with his crazy family, and I deal with mine. If my family gets out of line, I shut them down or otherwise deal with them; he doesn't have to do that. If his family gets out of line, he shuts them down or deals with them; I don't have to do that. In my opinion, the bad behavior of your husband's father is not something you should have to deal with--either by being forced to tolerate/listen to it, or by being forced to establish boundaries with him. Your *husband* should establish boundaries with *his* father, and one of those boundaries should be "You never again bring this up in front of my wife or my children, or the consequence will be that you never again have the opportunity to bring it up in front of them, because you'll never again see them." If your husband also doesn't want to deal with his father on this issue, he can include himself in that ultimatum.

 

I also would encourage your husband to take time thinking through his church options--enough time that he can be confident that he's not coming to a conclusion just because of his father's manipulations. If that means telling his father that he's going to have no contact with him for a month (or three!) to think things through and pray, then so be it. If he wants to continue the relationship with his father but make it clear that there's to be no discussion of church, then he needs to figure out a way to enforce that and make it happen.

 

I personally practice submission to my husband, so although I'd make my opinion known to him, I'd allow him to make the decision and go with whatever he decided. If you also practice wifely submission, you absolutely should let your husband know your opinions so he can take them into account in his decision. If you do not practice submission to your husband, and you know that you will not be attending your FIL's church no matter what your husband decides to do, then your husband needs to know that as well.

[CaffeineDiary]

So, there are three issues here.  The first is that your father in law is being an abusive jerk.  The second is your feelings about homeschooling.  And the third is the questions about the church.

 

The third question doesn't interest me, so I'm going to ignore it.  The second question is yours to wrestle with, and I don't really have any great insight.  So I'm going to focus on the first question.

 

Your father in law is being abusive.  His behavior is absolutely unacceptable, and his religion isn't an excuse for that. If it was me, I would 100%, absolutely, unambiguously draw a line across which he is not allowed to cross.  That line is "opening his mouth, about his religion, in your presence."  And, frankly, again, if it was me, I would be using allllll sorts of expletives to make this crystal clear.  There is a time for calm and reasoned discussion, and there is a time for "Take this book and stick it where the sun don't shine", and your F-I-L crossed that line sometime in the past several months.

 

This is made worse by the fact that you've let him get away with it for so many months.  Presumably, this is because your husband has not been doing his job, which is to step up, be a man, and tell your F-I-L to knock off the abuse of his wife.  So, first things first, I think you need to explain to your husband that him not protecting you from your father in law's abuse is an existential threat to your marriage.  Because it should be. (EDIT: I want to be clear that I do NOT believe in submission, and the reason this is your husband's job is not because you're a woman, but because it's his father.  If the situation was that your mother was abusing your husband in this way, I would say it was your job to protect him from her abuse.)

 

If you really must have a non-cursing solution to the problem then I would say if your f-i-l opens his mouth about this again - and I mean, you have to do this when he STARTS talking about it, not after FORTY FIVE MINUTES), interrupt and END THE FREAKING CONVERSATION.

 

"I will not discuss this with you.  The topic is closed." 

[he continues]

If you are in his house, GET UP AND LEAVE.

If he is in your house, "You have to leave my house right now.  You are not welcome here if you continue to discuss this topic."

 

Your father in law believes that there is a power imbalance between you (he is correct) and that it tips in his favor (he is wrong).  In actuality, since you control access to his grandchildren, the power imbalance tips in your favor.  You need to wake up, realize this, and make clear that you're not afraid to exercise your power.  Because, and here I want to be perfectly blunt, if your father in law is willing to emotionally abuse you over this issue, he will also be willing to emotionally abuse your children.  So I think that the sooner you make it clear that his behavior is not acceptable and you're willing to respond to his abusive behavior by removing your family from his presence, the sooner he will stop acting like an entitled abuser.

[TammyS]

Operating on the assumption that your FIL is not a complete jerk, but maybe doesn't get hints (a condition which I have compassion for, I'm one of those people who need to be TOLD, because I don't read subtext and don't even feel like subtext is a good thing, I believe that once we reach the age of 3 we need to learn to use our words...but I digress), I would proactively talk to FIL (whether that's you, dh, or both is up for your consideration).  I would be simple, short, to the point.  "We get that you have these thoughts about the church, but we are tired of hearing them.  If we have questions or want to discuss it, we'll ask.  Do not bring it up again, because if you do, we will have to leave you alone until you can stop."  Make this a STATEMENT, not a discussion.  Possibly do it by a quick stop-by to their home or a phone call, but make it the single focus of that particular visit/conversation.

 

As for the rest of your unhappiness.....do something to make yourself happier.   I don't mean to seem flip, but you are in charge of your life, so make the changes you need to make. Even if the ultimate changes are far off, a plan to get you moving in that direction will be a start.

 

I'm sad to hear that you don't feel that you have value as a mother.  It may not be glamorous, but I think you are wrong that those things that you do are "worthless" just because they are "mundane".  What would happen to your life if no one cleaned your house, bought groceries, or did the laundry?  In 100 years no one will give a crap if you wrote a best selling novel.  But who your children become will matter because they will be part of what the world becomes, and they will be the people who raise your grandchildren, who will be part of what the world becomes, etc forever.  Personally, I think you are one of the most valuable people on the planet right now. 

[CaffeineDiary]

One more thing: I respectfully disagree with the people telling you to move.  This is not a situation where a flight response is appropriate.  This is a situation where your FIL needs to be firmly whacked on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper.

 

Tammy's comment that when you communicate this to your F-I-L, "make it a statement, not a discussion" is spot on.

[kroe1]

You guys are really stuck between a rock and another rock.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, I cannot imagine how hard it is on your FIL that his own son does not belong to his church where he preaches. That is a low blow to him. I agree with Ellie that you guys should have left at the same time out of respect. Family is with you forever, churches not likely.

 

The FIL is being tough on you to the point of desperation.

 

I think your choices now are to attend FIL's church or move to a new town. To continue at your current church is too much strain on the family,

 

Please understand where I am coming from. I work in an ER. I see people at the worst time in life. Everything in life at that moment boils down to whom you call when you are in trouble. I rarely see friends in the ER, I rarely see preachers in an ER, I rarely see step-families in an ER. What I see is blood relatives. This perspective has given me a new assessment of my own family who drives me absolutely bonkers. I didn't get to pick them, but they are who I call when I am in trouble.

[CaffeineDiary]

You guys are really stuck between a rock and another rock.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, I cannot imagine how hard it is on your FIL that his own son does not belong to his church where he preaches. That is a low blow to him. I agree with Ellie that you guys should have left at the same time out of respect. Family is with you forever, churches not likely.

 

The FIL is being tough on you to the point of desperation.

 

I think your choices now are to attend FIL's church or move to a new town. To continue at your current church is too much strain on the family,

 

 

Respect is a two-way street.  Why is it up to her to pander to her father in law because of HIS choices?  Why isn't the solution to the strain that the FIL should move back to the old church? 

 

As a man, it's clear to me that the strain in this situation isn't actually because of the church, it's because her father in law is not respecting her.  Her allowing that disrespect to continue unchecked is the worst possible choice.  If she moved to the new church tomorrow, I guarantee you he would find some other aspect of her life to treat with disrespect.  Some people just like breaking things.  When the thing they are trying to break is your family, it is of paramount importance that you stand up to them and tell them to stop.

[Happy]

Well, when I'm about to feed my dogs and they are misbehave, I remove the food bowl. They love their food - and they make a very quick change in behaviour. What kind of "food bowl" do you and your dh have with the ILS? Is it your company, the grandkids? The ILS are misbehaving and need a reality check. They obviously LOVE their new church, and they enjoy trying to bring you to it. Remove that out of the equation, and you'll probably remove a big chunk of that problem (or see a lot less of them).

 

You know, from what I've read in this thread, it does NOT sound like he loves his church. It sounds like he hates the old one. There's a difference to me. If I wanted someone to come to my church, I'd tell them all the wonderful things we were doing to love God and each other. I would NOT tell them how wrong they are to be in old church.

 

Honey--Flies...that sort of thing.

 

People really get their knickers in a knot about church stuff. We've been in leadership in our church and seen horrible actions (words, deeds, etc.) by people who decided to hate....they rarely call it hate, of course, but it is what it is. A person can have deep reservations about what a church is doing--enough to leave--and still do that leaving in a loving, gentle, and probably sad manner. Some people love turmoil more than they love the people around them.

[Forget-Me-Not]

You guys are really stuck between a rock and another rock.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, I cannot imagine how hard it is on your FIL that his own son does not belong to his church where he preaches. That is a low blow to him. I agree with Ellie that you guys should have left at the same time out of respect. Family is with you forever, churches not likely.

 

The FIL is being tough on you to the point of desperation.

 

I think your choices now are to attend FIL's church or move to a new town. To continue at your current church is too much strain on the family,

 

Please understand where I am coming from. I work in an ER. I see people at the worst time in life. Everything in life at that moment boils down to whom you call when you are in trouble. I rarely see friends in the ER, I rarely see preachers in an ER, I rarely see step-families in an ER. What I see is blood relatives. This perspective has given me a new assessment of my own family who drives me absolutely bonkers. I didn't get to pick them, but they are who I call when I am in trouble.

I believe you really misread Ellie's post. She did not say anything of the sort.

[Lady Marmalade]

Five years ago we decided we'd had enough of small town life.   DH had a good job, though, and we were not willing to part with that.

 

So we sat down with a map, figured out how long of a commute would be the max he would want to deal with per day, and then drew a circle with a compass.  45 minutes from his place of employment turned out to be an awfully big circle.

 

We moved to a city within that circle- best thing we ever did for our family.

[kroe1]

Respect is a two-way street. Why is it up to her to pander to her father in law because of HIS choices? Why isn't the solution to the strain that the FIL should move back to the old church?

 

Because I have learned that winning the war is much better than any isolated battle. Let him bend on the next issue important to her.

[SadieMarie]

Because I have learned that winning the war is much better than any isolated battle. Let him bend on the next issue important to her.

 

The thing is, what I am taking away from the OP is that she has been bending every which way regarding just about everything in her life.  And a person can only bend so much before they break or get angry and frustrated and refuse to bend.  So sometimes you bend more and sometimes you say "no more."   Only Peacefulchaos knows where she is with this.  And some of us are more bendy than others lol.  Frustration, anger, unhappiness... all can be pretty reliable signs that it is time for a change.  What that change should be depends on the person and their unique situation.  

[Garga]

You can very pleasantly tell him to stop discussing it. This could be a very simple easy conversation. I've found that when I stand up to people, they often capitulate easily.

 

That's step 1. If he doesn't capitulate easily, then you move to step 2, which is where you get firm and mean and threaten to cut him off. (Actually, as others have said, this should come from your DH since it's his dad.)

 

That's one problem. But the other two are ones you can be working on as well. I love what another poster did with the 45 minute drive and the big circle on the map to see where they could move that would be within 45 minutes of dh's job and also close to a bigger city. Don't forget to check the school systems (or private schools) in those areas as well.

 

If you're really in the middle of nowhere (out west or somewhere), you can then begin a real search for other job opportunities for DH somewhere else. If you don't look, you'll never know whether it could be done or not. Even if it really isn't a possibility, at least you'll know for sure.

[Meadowlark]

I think your husband needs to step up and tell his father to butt out. It sounds like these people just won't quit. He needs to set a boundary. Maybe even be honest and tell them this is driving you away, and if things don't get better, you'll be moving. Surely that would upset him? He sounds like a passionate man who genuinely cares about you all, but he needs to know that enough is enough.

 

On the topic of moving, I would not hesitate! Even without the in-.law problems, it seems like your ready for a change. As someone mentioned earlier, change is invigorating! Although hard and scary, imagine a whole new place with possibilities to explore. You can do it! Just keep your options open and be ready to jump if the opportunity arises-or take the opportunity!

[sunshine clementine]

Wow..we have the same in-laws. Btdt, it got really ugly too when I couldn't take anymore. Hope you can find an amiable solution.

[Leav97]

You guys are really stuck between a rock and another rock.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, I cannot imagine how hard it is on your FIL that his own son does not belong to his church where he preaches. That is a low blow to him. I agree with Ellie that you guys should have left at the same time out of respect. Family is with you forever, churches not likely.

 

The FIL is being tough on you to the point of desperation.

 

I think your choices now are to attend FIL's church or move to a new town. To continue at your current church is too much strain on the family,

 

Please understand where I am coming from. I work in an ER. I see people at the worst time in life. Everything in life at that moment boils down to whom you call when you are in trouble. I rarely see friends in the ER, I rarely see preachers in an ER, I rarely see step-families in an ER. What I see is blood relatives. This perspective has given me a new assessment of my own family who drives me absolutely bonkers. I didn't get to pick them, but they are who I call when I am in trouble.

 

Would you be advocating the same thing if FIL had converted to Buddhism or Islam?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Legalism is terribly destructive to one's soul.  I wouldn't touch FIL's church with a ten foot pole.  (And I do agree somewhat on not like The Message as a source of truth, though I'm more open on styles of music and the color of curtains is a total non-issue for me.)

[QueenCat]

Legalism is terribly destructive to one's soul.  I wouldn't touch FIL's church with a ten foot pole. 

 

:iagree: 100% The only time I might go there, in OP's situation, is for a special reason (funeral, wedding, etc).