Sisyphus Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 So, that sucks. But using the "put on your oxygen mask first" mantra, I think I did the right thing. Dad had a stroke about 4 years ago. His personality totally changed, which sucks, and is not his fault. but, it's been 4 years, and all the kids, and my mom, have tried to get him to a psychiatrist to deal with the personality changes, and...nothing. He won't entertain it. He has become paranoid, mean (really difficult for me, as my dad was the most perfect example of a loving Christian man for so many years), just awful. It's hard to talk to him on the phone. My mom has begged him to go to counseling. I've tried to speak with his doctor, with no success, as have my siblings and mom. We are out of ideas. My mom has to deal with him every day, all day, and she just can't any more. I get it. I think she needs to go- if that won't wake him up to reality (they have been married almost 50 years) nothing will. But it's hard. He is simply not the same man, and it isn't his fault, but he won't allow any help to fix any of this. My mom really has to leave- she can't do this any more. She is depressed and he cuts her off from her only support, her sister- she needs to go. But I really, honestly, just told my mom to leave my dad. And they had such an amazing marriage and were such wonderful people, for my whole 42 years, it kills me. I am so sad about it all. It's so unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OK Family Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 It is unfair and has to be incredibly difficult for all of you. No advice just hugs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm sorry. How very hard and sad. :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Strokes are evil and can turn a loved one into a perfect stranger overnight. It is hard and there are often support groups specifically for the families of stroke victims at major hospitals because of the night and day difference in personalities. Unfortunately, the personality changes are definitely negative and like you said, can turn a person mean. Even if he won't go to counseling, please get her to go to one that specializes in this topic. If she leaves or not, she really needs someone who understands and can counsel her through her decision. ((((Hugs)))) it is a very hard path to walk. I wish your family the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm so sorry. What a heart-rending situation all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura's Haven Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I am sending you a whole bunch of great big hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (Hugs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Thanks all. I emailed my aunt, I am also far away and that sucks, to thank her for being there for my mom through all this.I should be there, I should be there...but I'm on an opposite coast. I hate it. I hate the stroke. I hate what my dad has become. I hate my mom being afraid and sad and alone. I hate evey last bit of it. It is so unfair. He isn't this person he has become. But the person he was is so gone, for so long, what do you do? I don't know. My mom doesmt know. But she needs to be happy and whole somewhere, I know that. It sucks. I hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: I have a friend who had a stroke. He has changed and it's very tough on his wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Although it was not an adulthood long marriage, it was a huge part of my decision to end my 2nd marriage. I get what you and your mom experienced. A complete and no reversible personality change. I encourage you to not think of it as a way to "shake him up" or with the hope he"ll "hit bott" or change. Leave or separate because it is the right thing for mom to be apart. To separate with the motive of motivating the other person to change is an unhealthy way to move forward. ((()(hugs)))) to all involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 My friend's husband suffered a traumatic brain injury. He became another person and violent. You can't force an adult person to get treatment if they don't want it. She eventually divorced him and now he is homeless and paranoid. Yes, it is very sad. On one hand you don't want to leave a person you love just because they are "sick". But if they don't want help and don't want to get better, and are putting you or your family in danger, you have to do what you have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Your dad needs a neurologist, not a psychiatrist, whatever else happens . (((Hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I am so sorry. That sounds so awful. Change is hard even when it's for the better, your poor mother is really going to have a hard time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm so sorry. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 My stepfather's first wife had a stroke and ended up much like your father. In their case she told him to leave. I don't know if it means anything to you, but it's at least interesting that your father still wants her there. Like the others, I'll say you're incorrect to think this is something he's going to rationalize out of by going to a counselor. Also, as someone who has btdt, you won't like what could happen if he's left alone. Hopefully your mom can connect with the doctors and get some good counsel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Although it was not an adulthood long marriage, it was a huge part of my decision to end my 2nd marriage. I get what you and your mom experienced. A complete and no reversible personality change. I encourage you to not think of it as a way to "shake him up" or with the hope he"ll "hit bott" or change. Leave or separate because it is the right thing for mom to be apart. To separate with the motive of motivating the other person to change is an unhealthy way to move forward. ((()(hugs)))) to all involved. :iagree: Realistically, he's not going to change because his changes haven't been intentional. Everything was caused by the stroke. He may not even be thinking rationally enough to consider that he is doing anything wrong, nor that he needs help. What an awful situation. I feel so sorry for Sisyphus and her mom -- and I may feel even sorrier for her dad, because it's not his fault he had a stroke and that it affected him so dramatically. :( I'm sure both Sisyphus and her mom are sick with sadness and heartbreak over the situation, and that they have kept hoping that their "real" husband and father (from before the stroke) would come back to them. I wish there was a way to reverse his condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm so sorry. For your mom, you, your dad. Everybody. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 If you know he had a stroke then I assume he had a neurologist at some point after it happened. Did the neurologist have something to say about his particular situation, what to expect, what could be done to ease his new symptoms/behavior, what couldn't be done, who to talk to, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm sorry. I can't fathom what you're going through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 It's not his fault he changed, but it's his fault he won't go to counseling. I'm sorry. I can't fathom what you're going through. I'm thinking it's not really his fault because it sounds like he has suffered some definite neurological damage, and he honestly might not be thinking rationally about the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 If you know he had a stroke then I assume he had a neurologist at some point after it happened. Did the neurologist have something to say about his particular situation, what to expect, what could be done to ease his new symptoms/behavior, what couldn't be done, who to talk to, etc.? I'm wondering the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 It's not his fault he changed, but it's his fault he won't go to counseling. I'm sorry. I can't fathom what you're going through. I don't think that argument can be made without knowing what part(s) of his brain was/were damaged by the stroke. It might be true but saying so categorically would required an expert medical opinion by a neurologist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 You guys are right. I was trying to be sympathetic. I changed my post. I'm thinking it's not really his fault because it sounds like he has suffered some definite neurological damage, and he honestly might not be thinking rationally about the situation. I don't think that argument can be made without knowing what part(s) of his brain was/were damaged by the stroke. It might be true but saying so categorically would required an expert medical opinion by a neurologist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I am so sorry for the pain this is causing you. I learned the hard way that it is not much easier for adults to have their parents divorce then it is for kids to have their parents divorce. Just keep holding out hope that perhaps they both can find many years of happiness ahead of them, even if it is not together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevergiveup Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 My mom was an alcoholic. When I was 18 I had to sign some papers to have her committed to a hospital for awhile. Is there something like this your mom can do with your dad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm sorry this has happened to your family. :grouphug: Have you and your sibs talked about what kind of care you'll be able to provide for your dad once he's single? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 It isn't uncommon to have vascular dementia follow a stroke as well. Vascular dementia is progressive with no treatment, and it will get worse. Counselling won't help. If she separates, it likely won't help if that's the problem. Brain damage is a physical problem. As part of the paranoia, he could also really turn on her. You need to be prepared for that. My mother was always a disturbed woman. She was violent and manipulative with her children, and treated my father like dirt at times. When vascular dementia arrived, his quality of life got worse and worse because she was his caregiver. I can't even talk about what she did to him without tearing up, and I probably only know a fraction of what went on. I tried to convince him to leave and called Adult Protective Services. Multiple medical personnel and family friends tried as well. But he stayed, and didn't get out of there until his final illness and hospice. Sorry to scare you, but this could go in some difficult directions for you and your mother. You need to think about that. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I agree with the others about a neurologist. Would he agree to go to a medical doctor? This is obviously not an easy decision because you've got to deal with your dad whether your mom stays or goes. Would she have somewhere to go, like with her sister, if she leaves? And if she leaves how will your father do in taking care of himself? And if she stays, would she agree to go to a therapist that might have some expertise in helping loved ones in times like these? Your mom will have to learn how to cope if he worsens. It sounds like she's at the end of her rope already. A therapist might give her a new way of looking at things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Would your father be willing to try hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) for a period of time? HBOT can help stroke victims even decades later. This study mentions that it helps with movement and speaking but your father's paranoia and meanness could also be due to a lack of neuronal activity. I know a stroke victim who used this with good success. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130123144218.htm http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/expeditions/2013/06/28/hyperbaric-oxygen-a-spectrum-of-emerging-treatments/ One study found that patients receiving HBOT exhibited better cognitive function than patients of the control group after 12 weeks of treatment (Xiao et al. 2012). This is Xiao's study mentioned in the above quote. The results are not definitive but some people appear to have been helped. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0047316/ Main results: One study involving 64 patients was included. It compared HBOT as an adjuvant to donepezil with donepezil alone. This one included study was judged to be of poor methodological quality. Patients receiving HBOT plus donepezil had significantly better cognitive function than the donepezil only group after 12 weeks of treatment, measured by the Miniâ€Mental State Examination (MMSE) (WMD 3.50; 95% CI 0.91 to 6.09) or by Hasegawa's Dementia Rating Scale (HDS) (WMD 3.10; 95% CI 1.16 to 5.04). There were no deaths or withdrawals, and the study did not mention safety assessment at all. Global function, behavioral disturbance and activities of daily living were not investigated in the study. I am sorry you and your mother are going through this. It must be very tough. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: Sisyphus. I'm very sorry you, your mom, and your dad are going through this. Your dad needs a neurologist, not a psychiatrist, whatever else happens . (((Hugs))) Honestly, both may be helpful. Some of what she is describing may actually represent secondary depression. Vascular dementia is another possibility and in some cases psychotropic medications do have a role. There are certainly concerns and risks as well so working with a good psychiatrist with a lot of experience with geriatric patients can be key. Ideally they will also coordinate care with the neurologist and other involved physicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm so very sorry for you and your mother and father. I really do understand. Brain injuries are terrible, and they cannot -- in any way, shape or form -- be fixed by going to a counselor. For those who question why he isn't taking initiative to do that or think he'll come to his senses once she leaves, please understand that a brain injury doesn't work that way at all. The brain has completely lost its ability to put that connection together, or come to that conclusion itself rationally. Those pathways are gone. The ONLY thing that can help is if he were to go to a brain rehab program -- it would need to be a long-term setting, like this one: http://rusk.med.nyu.edu/brain-injury-rehabilitation-program At a setting like that, they have trained therapists who actually retrain the brain on proper social skills, controlling impulses and negative behavior, and many, many other things. Those things may need to be completely relearned again. These programs can be very successful; if your mother has the energy to look into this, I would highly recommend it. Sometimes, insurance will cover all of it. I, too, wonder if your mother would be more peaceful about it if they were to just separate rather than get a divorce, given how they are both Christians and the sacredness of their vows. I truly hope your mother can get some help too -- she would probably benefit from a good counselor herself. It is a terrible thing she is experiencing. Anyway, again, I am so very sorry. Brain injuries are horrible. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 She is depressed and he cuts her off from her only support, her sister- she needs to go. What does that mean? Is he physically restraining her from leaving the house? Does he hide her car keys? Does he hide the phone? Does he physically harm her if she tries contacting her sister or leaving the house? Does he yell and scream? Does he whine and pout? I ask because I've notice a lot of women who tell themselves their husbands stop them from doing these things but when asked for details, what some mean is that their husband verbally and often loudly disapproves, so she chooses to stay at home or not speak to sis because she's emotionally uncomfortable with his obnoxious disapproval. It's often a generational thing, sometimes it's a personality thing and other times it's a childhood experience thing. If she sees a therapist that deals with spouses of brain injured people, I think it could help her clarify what options she really has. If she really is being stopped by him, then a therapist who deals with the spouses of brain injured people can provide clarity which options are realistic and which are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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