So this happened and I don't know what to think...

[SKL]

Could it be possible that you assumed racism partly because of her skin color?

[Guest submarines]

I'm white. It is impossible to say whether the librarian was just a moron or a racist moron, but the way the situation is presented here it does seem that the comment was more likely to have been racially motivated than not. 

 

I'm astounded at how many people here say they wouldn't be offended and the librarian was doing her job. But then I'm sorry if this such  a common experience that is has been normalized in the eyes of many. I'm also astounded how many here insist it wasn't racism. 

 

 

 

 

[Halftime Hope]

One Caucasian cashier in her 50s at Cub grocery store asked me at the checkout, "Do you have food stamps?"

 

By the way, fellow WTMers, I am Asian, and I have never used food stamps.

 

Please help me decide if this is racism or not.

 

Another question to my fellow WTMers: Have you been asked this same question?

 

A question I've found useful is, "Why do you ask?"  It helps me get to the heart of what is behind a person's words AND it forces them to examine their thinking.  If a person is thinking incorrectly, one can often see them evaluate their thought process and then either backpeddle or, once in a while, they'll be honest and identify their incorrect thinking aloud, and then apologize.

 

And yes, I've been asked this question before, but very rarely.

[....]

One Caucasian cashier in her 50s at Cub grocery store asked me at the checkout, "Do you have food stamps?"

 

By the way, fellow WTMers, I am Asian, and I have never used food stamps.

 

Please help me decide if this is racism or not.

 

I think mildly, it was.  My husband is from Korea and I have all kinds of stories.  My father-in-law/mother-in-law are the only Korean people in their neighborhood and they've had a brick thrown at them.  A BRICK!  I can barely type this without getting teary-eyed (I mean, they're really old, YKWIM?  They're not hurting anyone.).  My father-in-law was also (on a different occasion) hit over the head with something in his restaurant and he fell onto the floor unconscious.  People have graffiti-ed nasty things on their garage door.  I also was in the passenger seat of our car once when some idiot started fighting with my husband (who was driving), there was just this weird feeling in the air and I could sense it was because the dude thought he could push my husband around.  

 

It's hard to know people's motives.  I have some other stories, but I can't post them on the internet.    

[clarkacademy]

I think mildly, it was.  My husband is from Korea and I have all kinds of stories.  My father-in-law/mother-in-law are the only Korean people in their neighborhood and they've had a brick thrown at them.  A BRICK!  I can barely type this without getting teary-eyed (I mean, they're really old, YKWIM?  They're not hurting anyone.).  My father-in-law was also (on a different occasion) hit over the head with something in his restaurant and he fell onto the floor unconscious.  People have graffiti-ed nasty things on their garage door.  I also was in the passenger seat of our car once when some idiot started fighting with my husband (who was driving), there was just this weird feeling in the air and I could sense it was because the dude thought he could push my husband around.  

 

It's hard to know people's motives.  I have some other stories, but I can't post them on the internet.    

Or again the cashier asking could have had a number of reasons for asking. You weren't there and it is not fair to assume that.

[....]

Or again the cashier asking could have had a number of reasons for asking. You weren't there and it is not fair to assume that.

 

This is true.  But, I feel like if the cashier only asked her and not the other customers, it probably was.  Yeah, if she was asking the other customers, then - no, it wasn't.

[J-rap]

I'm sorry you experienced that and that you're left to wonder. I think it is impossible to know, really. I maybe would have been tempted to hide behind a bookshelf and observe her for awhile, to see how she treated others!

[SKL]

As someone else said, the only way to know for sure if this incident was rooted in racism is to observe how she treats other people who say they have no intention of checking out books for their KG-age child.

[Mom2OandE]

My instinct is that it wasn't an issue of color. As homeschoolers we all know what she said is true. I think she wanted to relay information that she felt passionately about; however, she lacked tact or the proper opening to have such a conversation.

 

At least this is what I'd hope happened.

 

In situations like this I've become accustomed to spouting back more information and statistics forcing them to realize I know what I'm doing. It's a tad passive aggressive but it changes the I reaction of the conversation.

[Kerileanne99]

A woman behind the counter hands me a pamphlet saying it could help us. I take it without looking and say thank you.

 

We finish and leave. I looked at the pamphlet at home. It was for adult literacy classes! It had nothing to do parenting.

 

It still annoys me more than 3 years later.

Oh, wow! While that is very offensive, it is also absurdly hilarious: this woman was so concerned that she handed you a PAMPHLET to READ about learning how to read?!

I think I might have had to go back in and ask her to read it to me😄

[KrissiK]

I certainly wouldn't have gotten racism out of that remark. Some librarians are condescending. Some of ours are. Because I have five kids and when they come into our library it's liked a tornado hit. Not that my kids are poorly behaved, they know how to behave in the library, but they just have tremendous energy, and they are always asking the librarians questions and they check out books. Our librarians should love me.... I pay so many overdue fines they could probably afford to build a new wing. But you should have heard the talking to I got once regarding how it shouldn't be so difficult for me to get my books back on time. It was all I could do to just not smack the guy.

[Zuzu822]

In the interest of full disclosure, I have a MLIS and am a former school library media specialist.  My mother spent over 30 years in the same career. BOTH of us have libraries we avoid because of obnoxious professionals. If angers me because of the collective bad name it gives to people who choose library and information science (as noted by one PP).

 

That said, I have had TWO people in the last week lecture me about the importance of reading to children. In both cases I was out with just my youngest (7 months), and I'm sure they assumed I was a first time mom and needed the "information." 

 

 

[Snickerdoodle]

I'm also astounded how many here insist it wasn't racism. 

 

I just don't see how a librarian telling a mom to read more books to her kids automatically makes that racism.      It seems more to me that she just has an overbearing enthusiasm for her vocation without taking regard to her audience when speaking.

 

I've had college elementary education students tell me to read more to my kids.   I just shrug it off as the the enthusiasm of the newly initiated.   

 

[blondeviolin]

I certainly wouldn't have gotten racism out of that remark. Some librarians are condescending. Some of ours are. Because I have five kids and when they come into our library it's liked a tornado hit. Not that my kids are poorly behaved, they know how to behave in the library, but they just have tremendous energy, and they are always asking the librarians questions and they check out books. Our librarians should love me.... I pay so many overdue fines they could probably afford to build a new wing. But you should have heard the talking to I got once regarding how it shouldn't be so difficult for me to get my books back on time. It was all I could do to just not smack the guy.

Oh, some of the looks we get taking the kids to the library! My kids are usually super well behaved there. But I've had librarians comment on reading, negative homeschooling remarks, and how I'm doing my children a disservice by having more than two. I have a really hard time with that last one. Somehow, one particular librarians believes it would have been better for my last three to not have ever existed than to be born into a family that loves, cherishes, educates, provides, etc. :001_huh:

 

OP, I'm sorry you had such an icky experience!

[Dmmetler]

At minimum, she was insensitive. It might have been racist, it might have been ageist (parent with young child in range-fire all torpedos) or she just might be a boor. Either way, I agree with passing the message up the food chain.

 

 

Our library gets used a great deal as after school care, so there are a lot of school-aged kids just hanging out there, using the computers, sitting around, playing on Nintendo DSs or iPods, and so on. I've seen DD looked at with serious suspicion when she goes up to ask a librarian for help in actually finding a book unless I'm right with her-which leads to a two edged sword. Do I let her manage it herself, in trying to build her independence and communications skills, or do I go with her and end up with the adult ignoring her and talking to me? Either way, she's not taken seriously. Ultimately, I mostly go to the library every week or so and pick up a stack of books on reserve, and let DD pick out her own books from the e-books section online or the used bookstore.

 

I wish the library could be as much a refuge for her as it was for me-but it isn't.

 

 

[MedicMom]

I've had librarians tell me the same thing. For the record, I am not a young mom, though I have toddlers, and my son is extraordinarily Caucasian looking(I resemble my Eastern European heritage but I somehow how wound up with a blond haired blue eyed child).

 

I would chalk it up to her joining the huge child literacy push that is going on nationwide right now.

[gardenmom5]

I would have responded to her with, "Oh, we're supposed to READ the books?   I was using them to prop my couch up/kill bugs with/a hard surface to scratch lottery tickets/perform satanic rituals with.   I had no idea they were TO READ, thanks so much for your helpful advice!"

 

I had a librarian tell my daughter that she read her 10 books for the library reading program too fast, and she was obviously reading books that were too easy for her and had to go home and try again.  Never mind that they were all age appropriate books and my daughter is just a very fast reader and was for whatever reason extremely motivated to get her (stupid) t-shirt.  FWIW, it had nothing to do with race.  

the miss manners technique for dealing with stupid remarks.  pretend not to understand and make them spell it out.  my long-time peds 'new' nurse asked if I had weaned ds.  no. ( he was my 4th, he was 12 months - I nurse until 18 months.)  she didn't like my answer, and kept pursuing the subject. playing dumb just encouraged her.  I finally let her know, in NO uncertain terms, I have four kids, I've done this before. (iow: back off.)  what came out of her mouth next was enlightening.   "there all yours?" blink. blink. blink.  (maybe she thought they were step-kids.)

 

Yeah, there is no way to know what motivated her.  I suppose it's very hard for a nonwrhite person not to see racism behind every rude or condescending comment.  (I don't mean that in a snarky way at all.)   She could have simply been confused by your comment about the book backlog.  

 

I have also dealt with rude, ignorant, condescending librarians.   Most of the current folks are pretty good but I've had a few moments, always over overdue books.  More than once I've had a librarian tell me "just look in the car or under your bed; you have it" only to later find the book on the library shelf, having been returned by me but not checked in by staff. 

 

There are just a lot of rude, clueless, condescending people out there.

I dealt with a librarian like that.  she wasn't even an American.  (and spoke with a thick accent.)  she did go to look on the library shelf for the book - which I repeatedly tried to tell her came from a different branch library because I ordered it online.  (we have a large system.)   I asked another librarian at a later date about the book and she tracked it down on the computer right where it was supposed to be.  someone just took their time scanning it or something.

 

One Caucasian cashier in her 50s at Cub grocery store asked me at the checkout, "Do you have food stamps?"

 

By the way, fellow WTMers, I am Asian, and I have never used food stamps.

 

Please help me decide if this is racism or not.

 

Another question to my fellow WTMers: Have you been asked this same question?

yes.  years ago (when my olders were very young) I was asked if I was on WIC.  I didn't even know what it was. 

was she a new clerk?  or perhaps had just had a bad experience dealing with the ebt cards on a previous purchase and was trying to head off potential hassle.  computers have made life so much easier.  (;p)

 

we live in an attendance area for our local elementary school runs the gamut from section 8 housing to "executive" homes.   that didn't stop one teacher from lumping everyone in the "you go to this school, you must be poor and getting government subsidies" basket.  

[Callie]

BTDT sorta.  I've used our library since I was a child and my children have gone there weekly (or more) since they were about two.  We are also farmers.  We get dirty. Sometimes I take my kids to volunteer or evening activities straight from the farm where I have been sweating all day.  My kids would never go dirty they bathe, apply make up and dress well.  I am a 40 minute round trip from the library so I hide out in a back corner and read while they do whatever.

 

Anyway.  Last year I dropped my girls off to volunteer at a program designed to teach parents the importance of reading to their children from an early age.  They provided a free meal, gift bags and other incentives to draw people in.  

 

As I was making my way back to my hidey-hole corner the woman who was heading up the program swooped in and began telling me how happy she was that I was there (and at this point I thought she was thanking me for bringing my girls to volunteer).  Nope.  She began explaining to me how to use the library, when busy parents can squeeze in a little reading time (haha I've schooled four kids using Sonlight).  

 

The look on her face when I explained I was dropping my kids off to volunteer was priceless.  It actually looked like a slow motion double take.  I honestly do not think she believed me and it was quite a lesson for ME not to ever judge people on appearances. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Callie]

One Caucasian cashier in her 50s at Cub grocery store asked me at the checkout, "Do you have food stamps?"

 

By the way, fellow WTMers, I am Asian, and I have never used food stamps.

 

Please help me decide if this is racism or not.

 

Another question to my fellow WTMers: Have you been asked this same question?

I'm white as is my husband and four daughters.

 

Not food stamps, but when I was pregnant with my fourth child and my third child was less than a year old I had an ob keep insisting that I apply for WIC.  I told him several times over a couple of visits that we would not/did not qualify for those services.  I finally was flat out rude to him about it.  I still do not understand why he continued to press the issue.  

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Oh, wow! While that is very offensive, it is also absurdly hilarious: this woman was so concerned that she handed you a PAMPHLET to READ about learning how to read?!

I think I might have had to go back in and ask her to read it to me😄

Even funnier; that didn't even occur to me! Lol!

[Parrothead]

Wow! I'm sorry that happened to you.

 

It is hard to read tone. So while it doesn't "sound" more than a clueless remark to read it on-line, I'm sure you didn't get her tone and body language wrong. I'd have a word with her supervisor.

[Saddlemomma]

That would have offended me, not because of skin color, but because she is an idiot to presume anything about anybody.  Or to admit such a presumption out loud.  Bah.

 

I would have been tempted to say, "she's going to read them herself as soon as she gets done with [insert heady tome here].  ;)

 

:iagree:   I don't think it was racially motivated at all.  I just think she ASSUMED you didn't read to your dd.  I probably would have just thanked her for her advice and said we do just fine thank you.  As you said, she found out quite quickly how wrong her assumption was when she checked you out.  That must have been very embarrassing for her.

 

[elfgivas]

:grouphug:  trust your gut.  if it felt like racism, then it likely was.

 

one of the things this thread has reminded me of is how very hard it is to truly walk in someone else's shoes.

 

eg.  if you have a child with a nut allergy, you become really aware of how people answer your questions about nuts.  you develop almost a sixth sense about when their "no, there aren't any" is because they checked and were diligent, and when it is because on brief reflection they don't remember tasting any.  it can make a huge difference.  someone whose child isn't allergic to nuts may think you're crazy for deciding the person doesn't really know.  someone else with a nut allergy will get it instantly.

 

sexism and racism can be the same.  when you experience it regularly, you can become dulled to it.... or you can become aware of the clues that that is what is operating.  sexism has to be REally Blatant for my dh to notice, whereas my female friends children and relations get it instantly.

 

i'm sorry this happened to you.  trust your gut.

ann

[Harriet Vane]

For those who are struggling to see how/why this could be racist:

 

For a person of color, this type of conversation or reaction has happened so many times in their lives and the lives of their friends that it is easy to see a pattern. While some people may be rude equally to all, people of color know (have lived the reality) that many people are rude primarily to people of color. That is racism.

 

It is possible that the librarian was just conceited and that the incident was not racially motivated. However it is at least equally likely that the librarian's words were motivated by an innate racism, and further. Given the OP's experience as a woman of color, I would say that it is VERY likely that the incident was racist. I trust the OP's reaction because I know she almost certainly has had enough experience with racism to know it when she sees it. If it looks like a duck . . .

 

It is normal for white folks, who have not experienced this pattern of interaction on a daily basis (racism) to feel that a truly racist incident is uncommon. White folks feel that because for them, it has been uncommon. Even if a white person experiences racial bias on occasion, it still is not likely to be on the same scale as or as many times as the racism that someone with brown skin experiences. Therefore, white folks hearing of an incident like that described in the OP would naturally default to other explanations for the bad behavior.

 

For those who are sick of hearing about racism, it is absolutely unkind to minimize that genuine pain that people of color experience. You have not walked a mile in their shoes. You really don't know what it's like. Would you minimize the experiences of a white child who is bullied in a public school, just because you yourself was not bullied? Would you minimize the experiences of someone who suffered under a controlling, abusive family or religious institution just because YOUR family was not that way, or because your church is not that way? Rather than condemning people of color for whining about racism, you might try a little harder to acknowledge that you don't have a clue what they live with, and that so many would not be speaking out if they had not been hurt.

[Kebo]

People make assumptions all the time. Many of them are wrong.

 

She made a wrong assumption about you. You don't have enough information to know if your assumption about her is right or wrong.

 

You know what is said about assumptions.....

[marbel]

<snip>

 

 

For those who are sick of hearing about racism, it is absolutely unkind to minimize that genuine pain that people of color experience. You have not walked a mile in their shoes. You really don't know what it's like. Would you minimize the experiences of a white child who is bullied in a public school, just because you yourself was not bullied? Would you minimize the experiences of someone who suffered under a controlling, abusive family or religious institution just because YOUR family was not that way, or because your church is not that way? Rather than condemning people of color for whining about racism, you might try a little harder to acknowledge that you don't have a clue what they live with, and that so many would not be speaking out if they had not been hurt.

 

I don't think people are complaining about the OP "whining" about it.  She said she didn't know what to think.

 

Certainly I understand that as a white person myself I don't experience bias in the way nonwhite people do.  Totally get that.  But here is where I get stuck:

 

It seems that:

 

- if someone (any race) makes an insensitive, rude, condescending, etc., comment to a white person, the speaker is simply insensitive, rude, etc.

 

- if a white person makes an insensitive, rude, condescending, etc., comment to a nonwhite person, the speaker is probably racist.

 

(USA/North America is assumed.)

 

Why does it seem impossible that a white person can make a stupid comment to, or ask a stupid question of, a nonwhite person without being racist?  No snark, just a real question.  That's the message I'm getting, anyway. 

 

Notice I said "I get stuck."  Not mad, not tired of whining... just stuck.

[Alice]

It’s hard to know if it’s racism or just a clueless librarian. I’m Caucasian and aware that I probably don’t see racism in situations where people of color do, because I haven’t had to experience it.

 

But, I can imagine librarians saying something similar to me. Routinely I check out 100+ books at a time using multiple cards. I always have books on hold for school. We are in the library at least once a week. Most of the librarians knows us well, and are pretty nice even the ones that seem to have the “AAAH! She’s taking away our precious books!†attitude. However, last Saturday I was there without my kids. I was looking for the Beatrix Potter books which they keep in a weird place since they are small. They used to keep them with the board books but I couldn’t find them. I wasn’t sure if they were gone or had been moved as they have recently been rearranging the children’s section. The main computer was down so I coudn’t check the catalog to see where they were. So...I went to the information desk to ask a librarian who I had never seen before. First, she checked for Beatrix Potter on the computer and came up with bunches of books about Potter but not by Potter. I kept trying to explain that I wanted the original books by Potter but I seriously think she had never read them or didn’t know what I was talking about. She tried to explain that books are shelved by author, under P for Potter. I could see she didn’t know and tried to walk away at which time she insisted on walking to the children’t section and trying to show me how to look for the books. It was ludicrous to say the least. 

 

I guess before calling her boss or anything I would wait and see what future interactions you have with this person. Maybe she was thoughtless. Maybe just mean. Maybe having a bad day. Maybe truly she misunderstood you and was trying to be helpful. Maybe she is a racist and you helped open her eyes. Maybe she is a racist and her views haven’t changed. But regardless, it seems like it would be best to give her the benefit of the doubt. 

[Susan in TN]

Whatever the clueless librarian's intent, I hope other librarian gave her an earful when you were gone.

[8circles]

I've been treated like this by librarians & I'm caucasian - all the librarians at our branch are as well.  Most of them are quite cranky and have no social skills.  Not sure if what you experienced was racially motivated or not, but my experience would indicate not.  I don't think we can ever know for sure.  I just try to smile & pretend they're normal.

 

I've also been asked about WIC and food stamps at the grocery store.  I can't say I ever notice if the cashiers are caucasian or not.  I'm not offended by those questions anyway so they've been non-events.

[Harriet Vane]

I don't think people are complaining about the OP "whining" about it.  She said she didn't know what to think.

 

Certainly I understand that as a white person myself I don't experience bias in the way nonwhite people do.  Totally get that.  But here is where I get stuck:

 

It seems that:

 

- if someone (any race) makes an insensitive, rude, condescending, etc., comment to a white person, the speaker is simply insensitive, rude, etc.

 

- if a white person makes an insensitive, rude, condescending, etc., comment to a nonwhite person, the speaker is probably racist.

 

(USA/North America is assumed.)

 

Why does it seem impossible that a white person can make a stupid comment to, or ask a stupid question of, a nonwhite person without being racist?  No snark, just a real question.  That's the message I'm getting, anyway. 

 

Notice I said "I get stuck."  Not mad, not tired of whining... just stuck.

 

When I mentioned whining, I swear I thought I read a comment from some previous poster who said she was sick and tired of hearing about racism. I have re-read the thread, and cannot find that comment. Either someone has edited their post, or it's possible I may have been projecting other conversations or remembering another thread.

 

To answer your question:

 

Yes, it's possible for white folks to be rude simply because they are rude, clueless, or stupid in general.

 

However, a person of color can readily recognize patterns of behavior. It is true that they are often judged by the color of their skin (often subconsciously but also often purposely). Because it happens regularly and routinely, it is reasonable for them to attribute certain words or behaviors to that cause.

 

For example, when I was a teenager I was quite independent. My family was unhappy and dysfunctional, and help for basic tasks was not forthcoming. From the time I was sixteen years old, I took myself to all my appointments--all doctors (gp, eye, dentist, etc.), any job or academic interviews, etc. I also always took my car (a beater bought with my own money) to the mechanic on my own. (It was a beater, so I had to bring it in a lot.)

 

Unfortunately, a lot of the adults I had to deal with treated me badly because of my age. My mechanic was horribly rude to me many times. He never treated my parents that way, and never treated the other adults in his shop that way (at least not when I was there). With me, though, he was impatient and really rude.

 

I had the same experience with doctors and their staffs--not ALL, mind you, but so many that it was obvious they had a low opinion of a teen with a state medical card who came in alone.

 

There was one eye doctor who brushed off my (legitimate) concerns about my glasses' prescription being incorrect. Totally blew it off, plus his nurse was really rude, at one point actually taking me by the arm and physically dragging me to the door while telling me to give the glasses more time. I had done NOTHING to deserve that behavior. I was a preppy honor roll student with a job at a religious bookstore, for crying out loud. I had not been sarcastic, loud, or rude. I had been wearing glasses since second grade, and I knew for darned sure that the prescription was totally wrong. For this, I begged an adult friend of mine to simply come with to the next appointment. It was amazing how much more charming everyone behaved towards me with my older friend, sitting there in his tie.

 

Nearly all these kinds of unpleasant encounters at the doctor's office magically disappeared once I was an adult and had insurance (as opposed to a state medical card).

 

In my situation, it is possible that some of those medical professionals were simply ugly people who treated everyone poorly. However, my overwhelming experience over many years taught me that most of those encounters were based on a prejudice against me for being poor or young or both.

 

In the same way, people of color experience a consistent pattern of behavior. They are able to recognize that behavior because they have experienced it so many times, as have their friends and family. If they misjudge a few for racism rather than simply garden-variety rudeness, they have a legitimate context for that mistake. However, I trust the experience and the instincts of those who live with the effects of racism.

 

[idnib]

OP here...

 

Wow, I picked the wrong day to not check WTM first thing! Still making my way through the responses....

 

In skimming I've seen a couple of comments about "jumping to conclusions" and I want to say I really haven't assumed racism or any other motivation. I'm mulling it over and that's why I asked for other people's opinions and experiences. "I don't know what to think" is right there in the title. Right now it sounds more like she has bad social skills...never blame on racism what can be blamed on idiocy?

 

Honestly if she were someone I would never see again I would shrug and forget about it. Because of the possibility of seeing her every week I am trying to figure it out. I love love love this library and I want to deal with my feelings, either by deciding to just move on, talk to the director, etc. I don't want to feel weird every week in a place I love to go and take my kids.

 

Thanks to people who've responded so far. It sounds like there are a lot of librarians who are difficult to deal with. My MIL is a public librarian so I've heard some stories from the other point of view too.

[Cricket]

I really don't see what the big deal is. What the librarian said is correct. Reading aloud to kids is beneficial. The fact that you already knew this and do it frequently doesn't mean the librarian is a moron or trying to be condescending, although sometimes I wonder if talking down to people is a class you take at library school. :-) You don't know the kinds of people she deals with all day. Most of the people who come into our library are there for the computers, not books.

 

What ever happened to cutting people a little slack? Her advice wasn't helpful so say "thank you" and move on. I don't think she meant anything by it other than trying to be helpful so don't feel weird going back there! :-)

[gardenmom5]

unless you know for a fact otherwise . . . . , I've tried to drill home to my children to give the other person the benefit of the doubt.  just because *we* take something one way does *not* mean that is how it was intended.  (otherwise the self-help communication book section wouldn't be doing such a bang-up business.)  some people really are 'merely' socially clueless/inarticulate, or trying so hard to be helpful - they end up offending someone. (my dd was very hurt by someone doing "just that".  she did eventually talk to the person about it.  the other woman was very apologetic, as she was made to realize her attempts to be helpful and include everyone so they would feel part of the group had unwittingly excluded dd.)  some have indicated there is currently a literacy push going on (I spend about 5 minutes at time in the library - just to pick up books. so I'm oblivious.), so she may well have just been "following the script" without regard to whom she was delivering said script.

 

see if she's any better the next time you see her.  I realize that can be uncomfortable, as she's done such a smash up job of making a really bad first impression.  at the very least, since she's seen what you do check out, you probably shouldn't get anymore lectures on reading to your kids.  if she's still that clueless next time, I would strongly suggest a heads up to the head librarian.

[momto10blessings]

One Caucasian cashier in her 50s at Cub grocery store asked me at the checkout, "Do you have food stamps?"

 

By the way, fellow WTMers, I am Asian, and I have never used food stamps.

 

Please help me decide if this is racism or not.

 

Another question to my fellow WTMers: Have you been asked this same question?

I had a cashier ask me this once and I was confused as to why she asked me. Then I noticed a small sign on the register saying that EBT was not working.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Or again the cashier asking could have had a number of reasons for asking. You weren't there and it is not fair to assume that.

I just want to add that this happened 8 years ago and I had my toddler and my baby with me.

[SKL]

The OP said "I rarely experience direct personal racism."  I do understand that there are places where this would be an impossibility, but there are also places where overt racism is rare.

 

I also think people need to remember that even if the comment was colored by a racist view, it does not mean the person was intentionally discriminating.  In this day and age, it is far more likely to be subconscious - especially in a place where, as the OP says, direct personal racism is unusual.  I am not saying it is OK but it calls for a different reaction.  I prefer not to call it "motivated by racism" because that implies intent to marginalize or hurt.  If that was present, I doubt that the OP would be wondering what it was.  A subconscious racist view is a type of ignorance which is best approached by education, not punishment IMO.

[JadeOrchidSong]

That was the only time someone ever asked me if I used food stamps. Thanks for sharing your food stamp question experience.

 

Just last week a well-meaning staff member at Rainbow Foods who didn't know I was done with the coffee grinding came over to try to help me read and use the coffee grinder. I didn't ask the help at all, and I thanked him sincerely for trying to read the directions for me. He probably has helped some people who do have trouble reading English or are machine challenged, I guess. I do not hold any grudges against him because I go to that store regularly and I genuinely feel he is a kind person, not condescending or anything. He simply doesn't know that I am an English teacher and speak three languages. To him, I look like another Hmong woman who may need some help. And I am glad that genuine and well-meaning help is available as is shown by this young man.

 

On the other hand, it is hard to be on the receiving end of true racism that only you know in your gut is there. It simply can be compared to the universal fact that people who never have experienced something can never FULLY know what it is like. For example, a person who has no children can never fully understand the joy and the struggle of raising children no matter how hard he or she tries, and a person who never suffers from depression can not fully grasp the excruciating pain this disease inflicts.

 

So as a pp says, trust your gut. No matter what other people say, you are the one whose instinct can tell you what you are going through.

[gardenmom5]

 

On the other hand, it is hard to be on the receiving end of true racism that only you know in your gut is there. It simply can be compared to the universal fact that people who never have experienced something can never FULLY know what it is like. 

I live in a very racially/ethnically diverse area.   I'm white.  I *have* been on the receiving end of racism - by blacks.   one of whom I worked with so I got to deal with her shenanigans and insults on a regular basis. she was a bully and a witch.  the boss (latino) protected her - until he couldn't anymore.

 

eta: I've worked with other black women in the past - never had a problem and got along with them just fine.  this one woman and she would drive off any white women working there.  I replaced one (who came back a few times), I watched another come and go.  there was also an indian woman there - who was treated very differently by this creep. (though she did steal the money out of her wallet.) there were only four of us - but the turnover was very high among those who were white, all within months.  I briefly moved to a different dept so I still saw who was working there.

[NicAnn]

I think it's more likely she assumed you didn't read to your kids. Reading aloud is uncommon, particularly in some areas. That's why we have incentives and charts for it all over our library and schools. That's why our DVD section is larger than the book area.

 

I regularly have librarians assume I'm an idiot, or that my kids only read junk. It used to make me mad, but now I see that they are just jaded from the other patrons.

[SKL]

Hmm, I guess I am slow.  I just thought that most people who take the trouble to bring their kids to the library understand the value of reading.

[LucyStoner]

I don't know what her thought process was, but I I do know I always wish I could think faster on my feet! I'd like to think that my response to "Why don't you read them to her?It just takes a few minutes a day. It's important to read to kids. It makes them more successful. You should read books and have books available to children in the home," would be "Is there a reason you believe I *don't*?"

 

(Says a white girl with no racism experience, but faced a lot of assumptions as a former young mom who looked even younger than she was.)

 

Your post is reminding me of what it was like to be a 22-23 year old first time mom in a city where most middle class first time parents are in their mid to late 30s.  At the hospital we were asked repeatedly about getting help to sign up for social services (we didn't need them/qualify) and when I was out with my older son when he was little people not infrequently assumed I was the nanny and, because they mistook my hands on new first time mothering style for being Mary Poppins, tried to hire me away from the parents of my son.  Sometimes it was subtle.  Sometimes it was overt with a dollar figure cited.  It was annoying then but also totally hilarious. 

[T'smom]

I am white and one time I made a late night run to Wal-mart with my two kids and bought a variety of things. I loaded my stuff on the counter and when the cashier finished with the customer in front of me, he looked at my stuff, did this eye roll/sigh thing and told me I needed to separate my items. I was completely confused, I had no idea what he was talking about. I just said "what??" And he said the stuff that isn't covered with (whatever the name of the food stamp program is) has to be separated out. I just stood there looking stupidly at him because I still had no idea what he was talking about....I didn't know the "official" name of the food stamp program. It was finally dawning on me what he meant as it was dawning on him that i wasn't on food stamps. He was apologetic and told me that he has lots of people that don't tell him that they are using the food stamp card until he's already scanned things together.... I would think that wouldn't be a problem with computers, but this was only a couple years ago. Obviously, I didn't feel like it was a race thing, but definitely a classist thing.

[Lisa R.]

 

In situations like this I've become accustomed to spouting back more information and statistics forcing them to realize I know what I'm doing. It's a tad passive aggressive but it changes the I reaction of the conversation.

 

I totally disagree. I've seen this method done before, and it does not achieve the desired effect.

 

People that are displaying ignorance are highly unlikely to be swayed when suddenly hearing facts, and we therefore waste our time sharing information to them. People who have their mind made up about what they perceive to be our ignorance will see this type of a response as defensiveness and likely perceive this (often correctly) as insecurity. Responding like this sounds defensive and insecure. It's a loss either way.

 

Why not hold your head high and ignore? 

[mom2bee]

I think I know exactly what you're talking about, idnib. I'd have suspected some sort of prejudiced myself, even if I weren't sure to classify it as racism.

 

Good think that Karma worked it out that she was able to look up your library record and see that the thing in her throat was the tip of her own foot. :glare:

 

If she tries something like that again, you could try asking her: "Oh. Well, why do you assume that I don't read to my child? Is it because you assume I'm in the "Minority XX's don't read at home"-camp or is because you misunderstood me when I said that she has a ready supply of library books at home already, that need to be read?

[mom2bee]

I am white and one time I made a late night run to Wal-mart with my two kids and bought a variety of things. I loaded my stuff on the counter and when the cashier finished with the customer in front of me, he looked at my stuff, did this eye roll/sigh thing and told me I needed to separate my items. I was completely confused, I had no idea what he was talking about. I just said "what??" And he said the stuff that isn't covered with (whatever the name of the food stamp program is) has to be separated out. I just stood there looking stupidly at him because I still had no idea what he was talking about....I didn't know the "official" name of the food stamp program. It was finally dawning on me what he meant as it was dawning on him that i wasn't on food stamps. He was apologetic and told me that he has lots of people that don't tell him that they are using the food stamp card until he's already scanned things together.... I would think that wouldn't be a problem with computers, but this was only a couple years ago. Obviously, I didn't feel like it was a race thing, but definitely a classist thing.

 

Oh.Wow....Just...wow. (insert: dumbfounded emoticon here)

[Mommy22alyns]

It would have felt condescending to me, personally.

 

This is making me glad we know all the library employees at our little library.

[trulycrabby]

You were extremely gracious, and hopefully, the librarian learned an invaluable lesson not to make assumptions about people, and to approach every one with an open mind.

[marbel]

Your post is reminding me of what it was like to be a 22-23 year old first time mom in a city where most middle class first time parents are in their mid to late 30s.  At the hospital we were asked repeatedly about getting help to sign up for social services (we didn't need them/qualify) and when I was out with my older son when he was little people not infrequently assumed I was the nanny and, because they mistook my hands on new first time mothering style for being Mary Poppins, tried to hire me away from the parents of my son.  Sometimes it was subtle.  Sometimes it was overt with a dollar figure cited.  It was annoying then but also totally hilarious. 

 

When I was pregnant with my 2nd child I was 42 years old.  The hospital was constantly hounding me to sign up for this or that publicly-funded program - not only for the baby but for domestic abuse.  It was sickening. I had to keep telling them that we didn't qualify, didn't need it, didn't have abuse going on, but they'd insist that surely they could help me with something, or that I should apply because maybe I did qualify and didn't realize it.   

 

I was stunned that they pursued me so aggressively, but if those programs need to have a steady stream of people signing up or they lose funding. 

[gardenmom5]

When I was pregnant with my 2nd child I was 42 years old.  The hospital was constantly hounding me to sign up for this or that publicly-funded program - not only for the baby but for domestic abuse.  It was sickening.

you can find DV in any economic level or ethnic group.  if there is going to be physical abuse, it is more likely to manifest during pregnancy.  most women who are abused are ashamed to admit it, and so they will push to get them to open up.  yes - it's annoying for the rest of us.

I had bruises all over my lower arm - so the mom-baby nurse was "very concerned" as soon as she saw them.  (I also had bruising from my epidural).  I did get a profuse apology when I told her it was the results of the labor nurse refusing to allow someone more competent to reinsert my IV even though they have a rule of only allowing two attempts before they are required to get someone else.  

 

eta: I would much rather have had a profuse apology from the nurse who didn't follow the rules and caused trouble in the first place.  I did write a letter of complaint to the head of the mom-baby unit about her.  (the bruises were just the tip of the iceberg with that woman.)

[marbel]

you can find DV in any economic level or ethnic group.  if there is going to be physical abuse, it is more likely to manifest during pregnancy.  most women who are abused are ashamed to admit it, and so they will push to get them to open up.  yes - it's annoying for the rest of us.

 

<snip>

 

Yes, my mention of DV didn't really belong there.  I was relating my general frustration at being hounded about problems I didn't have - but you are correct; it's not the same thing.