Do you obey laws/rules?

[Laura Corin]

Assume that we are talking about your attitude for you and your children now, not in your (possibly wayward) youth. Also assume that we are talking about the rules/laws of the institution (school, swimming pool, library)/country that you are in at that time.

 

If you are selective in your law/rule following, feel free to explain if you wish.

 

L

[NicAnn]

Similar here. I follow the rules of private organizations, or things I am choosing to participate in. However there are government rules which I ignore or bend because of my own moral and religious views. I also try to protest laws that criminalize victimless crimes whenever I can.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I obey the laws of both public and private institutions for the most part, but I do admit to driving over the speed limit and bringing popcorn and the occasional banana into movie theaters for my youngest, who is extremely sensitive to food chemicals (and yellow dye in particular). I'll pay for their crummy popcorn for myself, but I'm not going to feed it to her, and there are no real options at our theater for her. (And possibly some other things that I can't think of off the top of my head, but not many, if any.) We have a few people of the broader "If I think a rule is stupid, I'm just not going to follow it or make my kids follow it" mindset in our general group, and it makes me :cursing: .

[Laura Corin]

How about you, Laura?

 

 

I was trying to think as I posted it. I have in mind the way that when the subject of speeding came up a couple of years ago, many people seemed to think that 'law-abiding' didn't include speeding.

 

- The only law that I can think of that I break is parking on the single yellow line outside my sons' school. 'Everyone does it', not that that is an excuse. In fact, most days I just load or unload the children into the car (which is legal) but sometimes I walk into the school to pick up Hobbes' harp - it's illegal to leave the car.

- In China, I used someone else's immigration status to allow the family to ship the household effects to Scotland. I suspect that a bribe was involved, although I didn't see money change hands (the removal company sorted it out for us).

- I homeschooled in both Hong Kong and China - in both cases, homeschooling was outwith the legal framework, but prosecutions were not being pursued against foreigners.

 

Rules?

- I use my sons' library tickets instead of my own, because the regime for fines is more lenient. The librarians see me do it - I've explicitly stated to them that using just one ticket helps me to keep track (which is part of the story). But I suspect that I'm not meant to.

- I occasionally take a break here when at work (mostly I just come here at lunchtime, which is permitted).

 

I can't think of any others off hand, but more might occur to me. I'm clearly not an absolutist, but I don't do much rule breaking.

 

ETA: and then there are the eight members of the D'Ascoyne family I murdered to gain my inheritance. Forgot about those.

 

L

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I was trying to think as I posted it. I have in mind the way that when the subject of speeding came up a couple of years ago, many people seemed to think that 'law-abiding' didn't include speeding.

 

- The only law that I can think of that I break is parking on the single yellow line outside my sons' school. 'Everyone does it', not that that is an excuse. In fact, most days I just load or unload the children into the car (which is legal) but sometimes I walk into the school to pick up Hobbes' harp - it's illegal to leave the car.

- In China, I used someone else's immigration status to allow the family to ship the household effects to Scotland. I suspect that a bribe was involved, although I didn't see money change hands (the removal company sorted it out for us).

 

Rules?

- I use my sons' library tickets instead of my own, because the regime for fines is more lenient. The librarians see me do it - I've explicitly stated to them that using just one ticket helps me to keep track. But I suspect that I'm not meant to.

- I occasionally take a break here when at work (mostly I just come here at lunchtime, which is permitted).

 

I can't think of any others off hand, but more might occur to me. I'm clearly not an absolutist, but I don't do much rule breaking.

 

L

 

 

I remember that discussion! That was the first thing I thought of, and why I mentioned speeding right off the bat :lol:

 

I feel the same way as the bolded, generally.

[T'smom]

I'm usually a compulsive rule follower. I will follow rules I don't like and tell my kids that we follow the rules even when other people don't. There is a notable exception. The McDonald's play land is only for kids 3+. We don't go there often, but when we do, I let my 2 yo play. I feel guilty about it, but, I guess not guilty enough to stop!

[Jane in NC]

Was a Catholic guilt complex instilled in me as a child? I am rule follower although I can think of one exception. There are pedestrian bridges in the nearby salt march over which one is supposed to walk one's bike. If no one is on the bridge, I will ride my bike over it. Now you know my crime. :lol:

[bolt.]

In general, I follow most rules and very nearly all laws (that I am aware of) -- but, in a similar vein to many above, there are areas in which I make myself the exception to the rule, if I have some substantiation or justification for my action. I rarely think in 'flip side' terms that 'paying the price is preferable to abiding by the rule'... But I know that some do.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The only rule I don't follow to the letter is the speed limit. And even then I mostly follow the rule I was told by a police officer that going up to 4 miles over is acceptable. If I do speed and am pulled over - which is rare - then I do not argue and pay my fine.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

If I do speed and am pulled over - which is rare - then I do not argue and pay my fine.

 

 

Oh yes, this. I have no qualms about paying whatever fine I incur and wouldn't dream of fighting a ticket if I got one (like when I got my first ticket in 20 years, in VA last year :blushing: ).

 

That's another point in favor of moving to NC--the highway speeds are already set at the speed I'm most comfortable driving! I wish it was like that here *sigh*

[Laura Corin]

The only rule I don't follow to the letter is the speed limit. And even then I mostly follow the rule I was told by a police officer that going up to 4 miles over is acceptable. If I do speed and am pulled over - which is rare - then I do not argue and pay my fine.

 

 

My concern with this is that the leeway on speed limits is partly there to cover speedometers not being very accurate. So my 'ten percent over' might actually be more than that if my speedo is wrong.

 

L

[Jean in Newcastle]

My concern with this is that the leeway on speed limits is partly there to cover speedometers not being very accurate. So my 'ten percent over' might actually be more than that if my speedo is wrong.

 

L

 

According to those things that measure your speed by the side of some roads (I don't know if you have those but it flashes your speed), my speedometer actually reads higher than I am going in real life - IF those road side radar things are accurate. But I wouldn't actually depend on that.

[twoxcell]

I obey all laws and rules to the best of my ability and knowledge. I am a rule follower by nature. ;)

[PeacefulChaos]

The only rule I don't follow to the letter is the speed limit. And even then I mostly follow the rule I was told by a police officer that going up to 4 miles over is acceptable. If I do speed and am pulled over - which is rare - then I do not argue and pay my fine.

 

 

Get this - DH was pulled over for going 11 over, and the cop actually SAID to him that if he had been going 10 over, he wouldn't have pulled him over.

:svengo:

Way to admit it, man!! :lol:

 

I answered that I follow all the rules, because I do... after all, that officer said 10 over was fine.... :D

[zoobie]

I mostly follow rules and laws, but we have four highly contraband, totally indoor house cats! My county only allows 2 domesticated pets per acre or portion thereof, and I'm not going to apply for a variance. ;)

[Joker]

Mostly.

 

I do take a water bottle into movie theaters (that I've hidden in my purse). I buy both dds drinks and snacks there, though.

I also sometimes break the speed limit, but it's only to go with the flow of traffic. On the interstate, even though I'll be going up to 10 miles over, I am still in the slow lane.

I also frequently order off the kids menu (even though it clearly says I'm too old). Dds will also continue to do so even after they've aged out at places that serve huge portions.

[wendyroo]

I follow most rules and laws, but I do think about the spirit of the law rather than automatically obeying the letter of the law in situations where that doesn't make sense.

 

Another benchmark I use is considering the consequence if everyone decided to bend the rule in the way I want to. Using this standard I would NEVER litter because if every person decided to throw trash on the ground even occasionally the place would be a pig sty. OTOH, I have been known to leave my kids in the car while I ran up to the library and dropped books in the outside drop box. It is technically illegal to leave my kids unattended in a vehicle even though they were always within sight, they were strapped into car seats and I am only away from the car for less than a minute. Realistically, though, if everyone were to leave their kids in the car in that situation, if anything the world would be a safer place without all those kids walking through the parking lot, so I feel morally okay with bending that law.

 

Wendy

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm taking advantage of the "to the best of my ability" clause. :thumbup1:

 

Oh, 10 over is fine? I'll take that!

[nd293]

I also follow rules of private organizations where possible, although perhaps the word 'practical' would have been more accurate. It occurs to me that I broke a rule yesterday by taking my 6yr old son into the women's changeroom. Technically it would have been possible to wait for the single family changeroom, but it certainly was not practical.

 

I chose the second option for national rules. I respect the need for rules, but believe in beingg sensible. The city rules for keeping chickens, for example, would mean that they would be caged animals. I won't follow that - I think it's unethical. One of the child car seat also doesn't meet regulations - it meets all sorts of international standards, and that's enough for me. Basically, I use common sense, and make sure that I'm not assuming I'm 'better' than the law (eg I don't keep my old car seat because I think I won't get in an accident, but because I believe that international standards should be recognized as equal to local standards). And my older dd is aware that this is how I think.

[Guest]

I'm also a rule follower. In fact, after reading this thread, I think the biggest rule that I break is that I may bring my own box of candy into the movie theater, every two years that we actually go to the theater. I'm sure there are others, but generally I try and follow rules.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm also a rule follower. In fact, after reading this thread, I think the biggest rule that I break is that I may bring my own box of candy into the movie theater, every two years that we actually go to the theater. I'm sure there are others, but generally I try and follow rules.

 

 

I'm pretty sure we've had a hot thread about movie theater food too.

 

(Am I the only one watching for a certain few people to post to this thread? :leaving: )

[Arcadia]

I'll pay for their crummy popcorn for myself, but I'm not going to feed it to her, and there are no real options at our theater for her.

 

 

I have brought in milk (the Horizon Organic don't need to be refrigerated kind) to theaters and amusement parks (including Disneyland and and Legoland) plenty of times for myself and my kids. I have brought in fruit strips for myself too. The "food patrol" at the gates did not have problems with those, they are okay with milk. Funny thing is some places who forbade outside food don't sell milk and that was my kids favorite when they are hungry.

[Firefly]

I see I'm good company amongst movie theater rule-breakers. :D I always bring my own small water bottle because I don't drink soda (or water bottled in plastic). That said, mostly I am a rule follower.

[Desert Strawberry]

I would expect that the results of this poll would be vastly skewed towards rule -following. I'm not sure how many posters would be comfortable identifying themselves as criminals and outlaws.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I would expect that the results of this poll would be vastly skewed towards rule -following. I'm not sure how many posters would be comfortable identifying themselves as criminals and outlaws.

 

 

Well, the poll itself is anonymous, so they're not really IDing themselves. Unless you mean, admitting it to themselves?

[Joker]

 

Well, the poll itself is anonymous, so they're not really IDing themselves. Unless you mean, even to themselves?

 

 

Well, you never know who's watching. :ph34r: The NSA might be very interested in how many WTM moms take their own food into the theater. :auto:

[mommymilkies]

I usually follow laws. But I find some stupid. With my kids' food allergies, I sometimes bring in my food or condiments if they are not allergy friendly. One time I lied about my kid being 2 to get in reduced at a movie theatre. I was kinda mad I have to pay at all since she just turned three and was asleep from the moment we walked in the door. I believe most theaters are just thievery, anyway. $4 for a cup of water? I don't freaking think so. That's just stupid.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have a speeding tendency. I once received a ticket for doing 52, so I disagree that there is a certain secret allowed speed. But, I was out of state and think that had something to do with it.

 

[zoobie]

 

 

I have brought in milk (the Horizon Organic don't need to be refrigerated kind) to theaters and amusement parks (including Disneyland and and Legoland) plenty of times for myself and my kids. I have brought in fruit strips for myself too. The "food patrol" at the gates did not have problems with those, they are okay with milk. Funny thing is some places who forbade outside food don't sell milk and that was my kids favorite when they are hungry.

 

Disney allows outside food. They're not checking your bags for nibbles. :)

[MyThreeSons]

I voted "to the best of my ability", and yet I just broke a traffic law -- or at least something that a police officer once told me was a law, yet he couldn't cite a code number, nor have I been able to verify it. I flashed my headlights to let an oncoming vehicle know to slow down. There was a very soggy baby kitten -- no more than six weeks old -- in the lane he was driving in.

 

I must admit that I flash my headlights probably an average of once a week or so, but always for a safety issue. When I moved here, I was told that was standard procedure on these country roads, and I've been grateful for someone warning me several times. I must honestly say that, even if someone can show me it is truly against the law, I would still do it if there was a true safety issue -- an accident or stalled vehicle, an obstacle in the road, etc.

 

The officer who told me it was illegal was mad because I'd flashed my lights to warn him of a huge slowdown right around the curve he was approaching. I didn't realize he was a police officer. And the slowdown was because of a DUI/insurance checkpoint.

[Joker]

I don't know how many places have laws against flashing your lights, but I don't do it to oncoming traffic. I've always heard most people flash their lights to alert oncoming traffic of speed traps or something similar. I've been flashed a few times on the interstate, but that has been with my blinker on and they were alerting me it was okay to switch lanes.

[Tap]

I consider the consequence for rules and then decide if the consequences are worth the 'crime' per-se.

 

If I let my 14 3/4 yo DD do something that is '15 and up', then I am breaking a rule. If the consequences are that she may be removed from the event, then we accept that consequence.

 

If I speed, I know I may get a ticket. I accept that.

 

I have a strong moral compass, so I don't break rules all that often, but I do do it. I am definitely a don't ask/don't tell on many things and I firmly believe that sometimes' it is better to ask forgiveness that permission' but that comes from working for a large national company with more rules than any one person could possibly know.

[elegantlion]

I am a follower of laws, usually because I have this fear (not bad, just fear, guilt - I'm not catholic) that I'll get in trouble if I don't follow it. I have one "law" I'm breaking because I don't have the money to rectify it right now. I feel terrible, when in actually it's a simple licensing fee that they will only charge me a fine once I take care of what I need to do to buy the license.

 

I also have been put in the position where I've had to drive with expired tags, no more. I once had a cop turn around on the interstate to give me a ticket because my tags were expired by about a month. I refuse to drive improperly licensed cars now - yeah, it was an issue this spring.

 

Follower of rules? Sometimes. I don't take snacks to the movie theater, I don't speed (can't afford a ticket). I never said my ds was under 12 once he turned 12 to get a discount,

[Dory]

I will obey laws so long as they don't go against my beliefs and I will follow the rules of an institution so long as it doesn't go against what is best for my family. I don't even bring food into the theatre. I have sped a few times but always because there was something major happening and the speeding was for the good of someone else.

 

I am not by nature a rule follower and I tend to have a hard time with authority figures, but my beliefs would dictate that I need I follow the laws of the land unless they go against my beliefs.

[LaxMom]

Yup. I'm a rule follower, with the exception of speeding on highways. I do not speed in towns, especially in neighborhoods, but on the highway I'm usually quite a bit over. However, I am also moving with the flow of traffic, so I'm observing the rule about not creating a hazard. (Which I have seen pulled over, too)

 

True fact: TurboTax pisses me off because it rejects entering the interest earned on our savings account for being too little to bother the IRS with.

[Word Nerd]

I do ignore some institutional rules but am mostly a rule follower. If an institution has draconian rules (e.g., a pool we went to recently that included such rules as "no jumping in from the side of the pool!"), I'll respect them but never go back. I do speed but try not to. I also ignore some lines/questions on school forms, usually for information they can contact me about later if they ever need to know.

[AlmiraGulch]

I speed when I drive. A lot. I wouldn't complain if I were to be ticketed, though. I'd have to just accept the consequences. I am a big fan of non-violent civil disobedience when laws are unjust, although I haven't done it myself.

 

As for rules, I pretty much follow them, but if I disagree with them then I just don't go to the place or do the thing with the rules I don't like.

 

Oh! Yesterday i went through the "10 Items or Fewer" lane with 12 items. Honestly? I think I was so impressed and distracted by the sign said "fewer" instead of "less" that I didn't even count before I started unloading!

[annandatje]

Once in awhile, I unintentionally find myself going over the speed limit, but never by very much. I do not go more than five miles over posted limit on non-urban area expressways. On other roads, I comply with posted limits. I've received two speeding two tickets in forty years of driving; one was for five miles over limit.

[LucyStoner]

I mostly follow laws and rules. I would and have broken laws as part of civil disobedience. But I don't willy nilly ignore laws- there generally needs to be a reason and purpose to my choice. Also, while I don't speed demon it and have never been pulled over for a driving offense, I keep up with the flow of traffic in the fast lane and I don't lose any sleep over it either.

 

As for organizational rules, it depends. I don't ignore rules on the idea that I am special or they don't apply but if the rule is truly stupid or irrelevant at the moment (say late at night when the rule is designed for daytime volume), yeah I will break the rules from time to time. An example would be a merchant sign indicating traffic flow through a parking lot or turning back onto the street. If the parking lot is empty in the night I am taking the most direct route to the street. Also, if I am told I must provide something I don't see the need to give out- say my sons' SSNs for something silly, then I tell them no. I don't care what their rules are.

 

All that said, I am also the person who paid the age 8 to adult rate vs the much cheaper age 3-7 kids rate on the very day my son turned 8 and would have passed for 7. If I am undercharged, I let them know and pay the amount unless told to forget it (as I was when I got home and realized my IKEA total was so low because they forgot to scan my desk. When I called to pay, the manager told me to keep it).

[MyThreeSons]

 

According to those things that measure your speed by the side of some roads (I don't know if you have those but it flashes your speed), my speedometer actually reads higher than I am going in real life - IF those road side radar things are accurate. But I wouldn't actually depend on that.

 

 

If your tire size is different than what was stock on your car, that can affect the accuracy of your speedometer. Larger tires, you may be going faster than the speedometer reads, while with smaller tires you may be going slower than it reads. It's not usually a huge difference, unless you put on some super-sized tires.

[goldberry]

I must admit that I flash my headlights probably an average of once a week or so, but always for a safety issue. When I moved here, I was told that was standard procedure on these country roads, and I've been grateful for someone warning me several times. I must honestly say that, even if someone can show me it is truly against the law, I would still do it if there was a true safety issue -- an accident or stalled vehicle, an obstacle in the road, etc.

 

 

 

I live rural, and people always flash for animals near the road. I've never flashed because of a policeman.

 

I'm a rule follower.

 

I do go a LITTLE over the speed limit (5 or less) just to avoid being run over, and even that doesn't usually work.

I also bring water into the movie theater, after considering that I could get it from the faucet if I wanted anyway.

 

I don't believe in violating rules just because they are stupid (and there are plenty of those), or violating a rule at an institution I have the choice to leave or not attend.

[justamouse]

It depends.

 

I go across state lines to purchase goods that are illegal in my state.

 

I don't speed.

[Dandelion]

I follow most laws, although I do tend to speed. I also most likely broke some other laws in my "wayward youth" as Laura put it, but have since straightened up my ways (no one got hurt and no crimes were committed - lots of fun was had by all). :coolgleamA: :D

 

I follow most rules, unless I just think they're truly asinine and breaking them isn't going to hurt anyone or short-change a person or business financially.

 

Having said that, I am honest to a fault and will not lie or misrepresent facts in order to benefit. If a store forgets to charge me for something, I will point it out to them. I have walked back into stores after discovering that an item wasn't rung up (like a large item on the bottom of the shopping cart) to point out the error and pay for the item. I'm also very conscious of not adversely affecting others (being too loud, affecting others enjoyment of a place or event, etc.) and am very careful not to do that, or let my kids do that. When I break a rule, it is more because the rule just doesn't make any sense to me - not because I'm trying to benefit somehow (financially or otherwise). Having grown up in Germany with the Autobahn, I just think speed limits are ridiculously low in some places and I think some institutions make silly rules. :p

[Jean in Newcastle]

At institutions there have been times when I have asked for permission do something that doesn't quite match the rules. For example, I am supposed to be present during dd's swim lesson but when we had a family emergency I asked the manager if I could drop dd off for her lesson and then pick her up later. 90% of the time, people have always given me an o.k. to do so. That way I am able to still follow the rules (since I consider getting approval to be following the rules) while meeting my needs which don't always follow institutional rules.

[Miss Peregrine]

I will not claim garage sale or recycling money on my taxes. I mean, really!

[Χά�ων]

My moral compass tends to line up with the laws. Only one privately owned place has rules that I ignore and that is because the rules are only selectively enforced if the doped up college drop outs do not like someone they make a big deal out of minor stuff while ignoring dangerous things done by those they like. We tend to avoid that place as much as possible but not always within reason.

[Cera]

I voted "to the best of my ability", and yet I just broke a traffic law -- or at least something that a police officer once told me was a law, yet he couldn't cite a code number, nor have I been able to verify it. I flashed my headlights to let an oncoming vehicle know to slow down. There was a very soggy baby kitten -- no more than six weeks old -- in the lane he was driving in.

 

I must admit that I flash my headlights probably an average of once a week or so, but always for a safety issue. When I moved here, I was told that was standard procedure on these country roads, and I've been grateful for someone warning me several times. I must honestly say that, even if someone can show me it is truly against the law, I would still do it if there was a true safety issue -- an accident or stalled vehicle, an obstacle in the road, etc.

 

The officer who told me it was illegal was mad because I'd flashed my lights to warn him of a huge slowdown right around the curve he was approaching. I didn't realize he was a police officer. And the slowdown was because of a DUI/insurance checkpoint.

 

 

He probably thought you were warning him of the DUI/Insurance checkpoint. Where I am from it is common to flash your lights to let other drivers know they are coming up on a police officer so they can slow down to avoid a ticket or change their route to avoid a checkpoint. As far as I know it is illegal to do so. I always flash my lights to let other drivers know of deer or other obstructions in the road though.

[Laura Corin]

However, I am also moving with the flow of traffic, so I'm observing the rule about not creating a hazard. (Which I have seen pulled over, too)

 

 

I need instruction on this one. As far as I know, in the UK there's no 'going with the flow' speed limit exemption. Can you tell me how it works? For example:

 

- Situation 1: Open stretch of freeway/motorway. I am going at the speed limit. If they can get into the next lane, people change lanes to overtake me. If there is no space, they drive behind me at the speed limit.

 

- Situation 2: Freeway/motorway but traffic in lanes to filter in different directions. I drive at the speed limit, as do the other drivers behind me and heading my way

 

- Situation 3: Single lane road. I drive at the speed limit and so do all the people behind me.

 

I'm not being snarky - I've just never understood this rule. I suspect I broke it all the time when I lived in California for two years.

 

Explain please.

 

L

[Jane in NC]

I need instruction on this one. As far as I know, in the UK there's no 'going with the flow' speed limit exemption. Can you tell me how it works? For example:

 

- Situation 1: Open stretch of freeway/motorway. I am going at the speed limit. If they can get into the next lane, people change lanes to overtake me. If there is no space, they drive behind me at the speed limit.

 

- Situation 2: Freeway/motorway but traffic in lanes to filter in different directions. I drive at the speed limit, as do the other drivers behind me and heading my way

 

- Situation 3: Single lane road. I drive at the speed limit and so do all the people behind me.

 

I'm not being snarky - I've just never understood this rule. I suspect I broke it all the time when I lived in California for two years.

 

Explain please.

 

L

I tend to maintain a speed that corresponds to the speed limit (maybe even slower--some of the small curvy roads near me are hazardous when wet). The argument that I hear on going with the flow usually applies to urban traffic. Many American cities are encircled by highways with four or five lanes in each direction. Posted speeds often seem ignored and those traveling at slower speeds seem to be impeding the flow of traffic (i.e. everyone else who has pedal to the metal). Here is a case where it might be better to go with the flow than have someone on your bumper who is traveling at 60 mph.

 

Frankly I find this method of driving to be stressful for me and unnecessarily hard on a car if you have to break and accelerate often. But then I don't live in a city.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I am of the opinion that unless a law makes me sin then I should obey it for both public and private areas. Who am I to say I can bend that law/rule? And why can I bend one but Mr. Smith cannot because as sure as God made little green worms the other guy bending the rules will irritate me? I also believe that by showing my children I obey the laws, no matter how small, it teaches them the same. Start bending or breaking the small ones and it will escalate. Your children see these small breakings and decide they don;t need to follow ALL the rules either, so they sneak the cookie before dinner because they were hungry or they take their sisters pen because they needed it and cheat on a test because they forgot to study....all rules broken to accommodate their needs. Bending and choosing to ignore laws/rules all boils down to a ME society.

 

The jails are full of people who felt the laws did not have to be followed fully.