I am beyond angry UPDATE

[Chris in VA]

We got an email this am from my son, who is in his final semester of film school at VCU. He's worked hard and done very well.

 

All students in the cinema program major in cinema and then either take another major, or do two minors. They walk at June graduation but do one more summer of film making, which is what he's currently doing.

 

Ds just found out the program made a huge blunder--he is being told, AFTER getting approval, that he cannot receive his history minor w/o six more credits, and therefore cannot receive his degree.

Someone, not him, royally screwed up.

 

His teacher/counselor petitioned the history dept to substitute other credits he has, but they denied it.

 

So, either the cinema dept head has to get permission to grant him a degree with only one minor, which is highly unlikely, or he has another semester of school in the fall.

 

I am SO freak in angry at the level of incompetence!

 

We can't afford more tuition, he can't afford it, he is demoralised, and it's just such a mistake.

 

edited for language but still angry

 

 

Update--He was able to both advocate food himself and enlist the help of the Cinema program director.

He's officially getting his BA in Cinema, with a minor in Art History. I don't think not being awarded the second minor (in history) is going to cripple his job chances.

Lesson? Don't trust your college advisors, and learn to stick up for yourself!:-)

[creekland]

UGH! Is there ANY chance he has the approval in writing? Is there any chance the college will let him take the credits at a discount since it was their mistake? (They'd have to give him some sort of grant.) :grouphug:

[JeneralMom]

I had something similar happen. My advisor was new and apparently didn't fill a form in properly or get it in on time, so despite doing all my credits, writing (and getting an A) an Honours thesis, and graduating in May, I was denied the Honours and told I would only get my degree the next December once she had corrected her error (but there was no way to fix the Honours mistake). Made me so sad and demoralized.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

Apparently, he needed six more credits in the 300 courses--so I think he has the credits but they are not in high enough courses.

I looked at our com coll to see if they offer anything he could take and then transfer, but they only go up to 299 level courses.

I will have to wait and see what his dept heads can do, but right now there is no way around it.

[bettyandbob]

I assume your son and his advisor checked the requirements when he declared the history minor and the exact course requirements were changed in the intervening semesters. Can they go back through the catalogues and show he met the requirements that were published at the time he declared.

[MomsintheGarden]

That absolutely stinks! I hope the Dept head can work it out for your Ds soon.

[lmrich]

Yikes. How awful!

[jenn-]

Apparently, he needed six more credits in the 300 courses--so I think he has the credits but they are not in high enough courses.

I looked at our com coll to see if they offer anything he could take and then transfer, but they only go up to 299 level courses.

I will have to wait and see what his dept heads can do, but right now there is no way around it.

 

 

I almost had this problem as a psych major. All of our classes were 300 and below and we needed so many 400 level classes. I had to take random classes from different departments my senior year to make sure I had enough of those upper level classes.

[DawnM]

All of the classes needed should have been clearly posted/stated in the schedule/catalog. If what he took matches what the requirements in there were, there shouldn't be a problem. Can he prove it that way?

 

I actually had some issues with my advisor when I was in college and had to show HIM what I should be taking instead of relying on him to help me schedule my classes. He would have really messed me up.

[flyingiguana]

Some colleges have a 4 year graduation guarantee -- if you follow their advice, you can graduate in 4 years, or the extra time is paid for by the college.

 

Any chance this college has that?

 

And sometimes petitioning a second time will get results. If they start to see that you're going to be a pest, they may just relent.

 

However, some colleges have started charging for petitions....

[elegantlion]

(((Chris))) I'm sorry. I hope it gets fixed. He's worked so hard.

[chiguirre]

Oh Chris! That's just awful. I hope that he can find someone to fix the problem or dig up his old catalogs (maybe try the library).

[QuirkyKapers]

I would be so mad too. I would keep bugging people and insist on a meeting with someone. I would make them go through everything with a fine tooth comb. :grouphug: I hate when people end up paying the price for someone else's incompetence.

[dakarimom5]

I learned only one thing from my orientation to college class. If you start a degree in say 1999 and don't finish until 2013, you have the right to graduate under the requirements of the year you started. Could something like that help your son?

[Seasider]

Their mistake. They need to get creative and craft an independent study project for/with him worth six hours of credit. Or his next film project can be co-produced with your local news station's action reporter.

[skimomma]

Something similar happened to my dh. But, he did not find out until a year after he thought he graduated when he was denied a job offering because they called the university and the university said he was not a "graduate." You can imagine the shock....and we still wonder how many other job opportunities were unknowingly lost. Because we no longer lived near the school, dh had to take the class in question somewhere else. But it was not a class offered by community colleges. He ended up doing some sort of DE option and it was quite expensive. We can laugh about it now but it was not at all funny at the time. It made his graduation year change by two which he also still resents.

 

In the school's defense, dh should have been able to figure this out earlier. His diploma was never mailed. At that time they mailed them to your "permanent address" which was typically your parents address. He just assumed it was mailed and never followed up. That or a quick check at his transcript would have tipped him off sooner. He had substituted a class requirement with department permission but never got it in writing (he assumed it was recorded in his files) and had no proof so there was no arguing it. The class he had used as a substitute (because the required class had been full many semesters running) was actually a higher-level and more difficult course, but with college accreditation audits, the school really could not just let it go without proof of the original agreement, which dh could not provide.

[Starr]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[skimomma]

I learned only one thing from my orientation to college class. If you start a degree in say 1999 and don't finish until 2013, you have the right to graduate under the requirements of the year you started. Could something like that help your son?

 

 

This is only true if you are continuously enrolled, FYI. Not that I think it will matter for the OP, but important for people to understand.

[unsinkable]

Oh, Chris! How frustrating and disappointing!

 

If a CC doesn't have the classes what about an online university? Would that be cheaper and easier?

[Laurie4b]

Perhaps you could apply for a grant from the school and he could take the history courses online?

[Twigs]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[TXBeth]

I learned early on to never, ever trust an academic advisor. They often have no clue what they are talking about. You have to read the catalog yourself, figure out your plan, and take it in for them to sign. If you need them to file a special document, you print it, take it to their office to sign, and then take it on to where it belongs.

[Mommyof4ks]

I to would look at the catalogue from the year he started and prove that he has taken the classes needed for the degree. My advisor was great about classes for my major, but I had to keep on top of my minor and basics, because she had me taking a couple of classes I did not need at one point, so I had to drop those and enroll in what I needed the day before classes started, what a mess.

[AngieW in Texas]

They tried to hold my dh over that barrel, but he had a written copy of the agreement to let him count two higher level philosophy courses in place of the one freshman-level philosophy course, so they had to let him have it.

[Crafty Mathy Mom]

My advisor messed me up my junior year. Chemistry majors were required to have 2 300+ level maths. My advisor approved Calculus III and Advanced Statistical Methods. When the department head returned from sabbatical, he wouldn't let me graduate with a BS unless I had two different math classes. I had to drop out of the honors program my senior year to fit them in. My senior year was brutal, but I ended up with a double major in chemistry and math. It's been a blessing though. I wouldn't have my part time job if I didn't have that math major.

[Crafty Mathy Mom]

double post

[Farrar]

I had something similar happen in college. My self-designed minor was approved and then the approval mysteriously disappeared weeks before graduation. Also, I took the language exemption exam and the records of that disappeared. In the end, with a help from my advisor a new minor was created and the good memories of someone in the French department the exemption was resurrected so it was all worked out. Here's hoping something similar happens in this case!

[FaithManor]

UGH! Is there ANY chance he has the approval in writing? Is there any chance the college will let him take the credits at a discount since it was their mistake? (They'd have to give him some sort of grant.) :grouphug:

 

Does he have the approval in letter form on school letterhead with the stamp or signature of the person authorized to give approval? If so, in Michigan it would be illegal for them to do this. Ask me how I know? A couple of local kids had this exact same thing happen to them at a local university. One of the dads hired an attorney - cost him $100.00 - and the attorney sent copies of the kids' approval letters plus his own "this is the lawsuit you can expect if you do not honor your promises since this is illegal" letter. In less than 24 hrs., the legal department of the university contacted the students and told them they would be graduating with their degrees.

 

It was $100.00 well spent.

 

Faith

[Orthodox6]

PM sent.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I had this happen to me. I was allowed to walk in graduation with my class but I took the extra semester.

[Night Elf]

At my last college, the old catalogs were kept in the admissions office. You were allowed to graduate with the requirements listed in the year you began. However, if you were out of school for more than 2 semesters, you were held to the new requirements. I don't know how they handle part-timers.

 

I had some course substitutions but they were required to be on a certain form. I held onto them and actually did have to bring one in for a head advisor who was trying to deny me the substitution after the fact. I can see them being able to get away with this if there is no official copy of it though. We want to trust these people, but really it's important for the student to make sure he's following all the requirements. That's sad but true. It sounds as if they are trying to change things now though. He needs to get his hands on his catalog and find the information about graduation requirements.

[Chris in VA]

The problem was that they use Degree Works to keep a roadmap, of sorts, for the students to follow.Ds says it told him he was all set to check out with his minors, but when he took the proper paper to the hist dept, they said it was a problem with the program--computer program.

His dept head is aware of the problem and will work on it next week. Ds is considering online courses. Everyone in the cinema dept has been very helpful.

Sigh. At least ds sounded better today. Thank God for Skype--we can call overseas for about two cents a minute.

[Jeannie in NJ]

my dh is a college professor. He said that the higher ups hate to hear from angry parents so talk or if possible meet with the dean and if that does not work let him know that you will be going over his head. Colleges can and do make adjustments but often only after the parents make a stink. just saw your post right before mine, sounds like things might work out.

[Chris in VA]

Thanks, Jeannie--my husband is pretty hot about it. He was an adjunct and knows about the importance of good advising. You can bet he.

'S giving the program director just enough time to figure it out, then they will be hearing from us.

[KungFuPanda]

Can they let him walk with his class, then take the final class during the filming semester and have his diploma granted then?

 

I had my college advisor tell me that only half my military language credits would count. I had to call the D.O.D. and they told him something like "Look in the yellow book on page 237." And just like that . . . I had 12 upper level language credits that the university didn't offer. I also didn't apply for graduation so I graduated a semester later. It seems obvious NOW, but I just didn't know I had to APPLY to graduate. I wasn't planning to attend the ceremony, I just wanted my degree. I mean, you don't know what you don't know and you THINK your advisor's job is to know this stuff and keep you informed, but they seem to have no accountability in the process.

[Little Nyssa]

I'm sorry this is happening Chris! I hope it gets worked out!

 

OT, but have you gone on your trip to Israel yet? How is it going?

[Kareni]

How very frustrating for your son and you, Chris. I hope that all will be resolved to the good.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Audrey]

Wait! It was THEIR computer program's error and they KNEW there was a problem, yet failed to alert students to potential errors in the grad requirements issued by THEIR faulty program??

 

Oh, heck in a handbasket... you can bet your behind that you have some legal leverage there. Lawyer up and ride hard.

[Chris in VA]

Lol--"lawyer up and ride hard" --never heard that one before.

 

Kungfupanda, he's already walked, and in his second production summer--no time for classes as they get around fifteen credits for these summer semesters, working about fifty hours during the week and often on the weekend.

We will hear soon what should happen. I did say that, if they agree to let him graduate with one minor instead of two, he should make sure he would be able to do the six credits and receive the second minor sometime in the future, should he have money and time then to get it.

Little Nyssa, yes, we are in Israel now (dd, dh, and I) and ds will be joining us when production ends in July, for two weeks, spending his grad money. It wouldn't have been enough to play for more classes, at least.

I am actually happy to be overseas, as it means ds has to handle his own life.

[Kate in Arabia]

I had something similar happen in grad school, thought I was all done and was told so by my advisor, at the last minute he said I was one course short (after having finished my thesis and everything), I ended up taking a "directed study" course to make it up. I found it difficult to get that last course finished. In my mind I had "graduated" and moved on with life -- got married, worked full time, had a child, etc. -- it was a lot harder somehow to finish up that last credit when I was no longer on campus and in the whole "going to college" mode. So personally I would recommend trying to get it all fixed somehow over offering to do extra courses later.

[jelbe5]

Their mistake. They need to get creative and craft an independent study project for/with him worth six hours of credit. Or his next film project can be co-produced with your local news station's action reporter.

 

I second this excellent advice!

 

Also the idea of consulting with an attorney. I would not waste time fretting here but would be pro-active and threaten lawsuit and press leak if prompt action is not taken by the college to rectify this.

[MyThreeSons]

I managed to squeeze four years of education into ten years. :laugh: I worked full time most of the time I was in college, taking one or two classes each semester. Engineering lab classes were often only one credit, but required as much classroom and homework time as a three credit course.

 

There was one required class that I was dreading, and I kept putting it off, because I knew it was no longer required, and they were going to drop it altogether. But, since it was in the book when I began, and I had been continuously enrolled, I had to take it my final semester. It turned out to not be so bad after all.

 

Then, my adviser informed me that they had reviewed my transferred classes -- 7 years after I had transferred in! -- and decided that I was a couple of credits short. At my first college, Physics was done in two, four credit semesters, while this university did it in three, three credit semesters. We covered the same material -- and I could prove it -- but I ended up having to take another Physics class that last semester. And I had to take another one of those dreaded lab classes, because my previous school's course catalog (which I had kept), didn't specifically state that the four credit course was comprised of three lecture credits and one lab credit. They called my old school, but the professor I had was no longer there to confirm that there was a lab component. To this day, I don't understand why the department head or dean couldn't have done that.

 

Because of another paperwork snafu, my date of graduation is officially August, although I finished taking classes in May. But, I do have that diploma!

[FaithManor]

Wait! It was THEIR computer program's error and they KNEW there was a problem, yet failed to alert students to potential errors in the grad requirements issued by THEIR faulty program??

 

Oh, heck in a handbasket... you can bet your behind that you have some legal leverage there. Lawyer up and ride hard.

 

 

Giddyap!!

 

Absolutely you have legal leverage. The university is pushing the students around because they make money off making them take more courses, plain and simple.

 

This is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO illegal in many states. Their error, their problem, not the students' issue.

 

Faith

[Chris in VA]

Well, I am not sure that we have any legal grounds. The website clearly says a minor in history needs eighteen hours, twelve 300 level or above. The computer program has a cover-your-butt that says something like, not all requirements may be listed, or something like that. We'll see.

[Tammyla]

Oh, Chris...I hope this works out. I'd kick up a fuss even with the little disclaimer and press for their making it right for your son.

[Chris in VA]

Lol--I just realized that I have had the wrong minor in my siggy for ds. Instead of art, it's supposed to be history...the one he's currently having trouble with!

[J-rap]

How frustrating. My daughter had a similar problem, and ended up having to drop a major, because she didn't want to have to pay for an extra semester (and her scholarship will have ended). Both the education department and the registrar had approved of her plan earlier in the year!

 

So, she has switched things around a little, and is able to take two online courses over the summer at our state university. It is through that new online program offered through many schools now (I forget what it's called) where you don't have to pay anything. At least her school has agreed to take those credits to fulfill what is required for her change of plans. I wonder if your son could do something like that?

[Excelsior! Academy]

I can not believe how many people this has happened to. This is ridiculous. Surely there is something to be done. How unfair!

[Peplophoros]

I can understand your anger, but lawyers? Really?

 

This is like the bank telling you that you have thousands of dollars more in the bank than you actually have. Then you spend it. Yes, they made a mistake, but ultimately the responsibility to keep up with your own records is yours, and you certainly don't get the right to spend (or graduate) with money (credits) that aren't yours. The requirements seem to have been clearly laid out. The fact that he didn't keep track (two 300-level history courses are a big deal...of course you're getting gruff from the History Dept.!) is ultimately his fault.

 

Sorry, but your outrage seems misplaced. :sad: