goldberry Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This is happening to a friend of mine. Daughter started dating boyfriend her senior year in high school. Boyfriend was 22, living at home, working pt at Sonic and playing video games the rest of the time. Relationship almost caused daughter not to graduate, daughter left home several times, etc. Daughter eventually does graduate and gets pregnant. Boyfriend and daughter move into govt assisted housing together. Boyfriend brags to my friend about how he knows how to get the most he can out of the system. Daughter works full time, boyfriend refuses extra hours at his pt job so he can play videos and hang out with his friends. Other things are happening during this time as well that are extremely disrespectful and uncaring to daughter, as well as to my friend. Baby is born, boyfriend cannot be trusted to take care the baby due to irresponsible behavior. Daughter is finally understanding her tremendous responsibility here, wants to go back to school. My friend offers for her to move back home with the baby and they will help her with schooling and with baby. She does so. Continues to see boyfriend and visit him with baby, but seems to be seeing him more realistically. Eventually asks my friend, can boyfriend come live with us too? Friend says, uh, no. Daughter thinks my friend is being "unreasonable". Boyfriend is still really rude to daughter and to my friend. No gratefulness for any help, no respect at all. Has never contributed financially, emotionally, or practically to the relationship. Boyfriend gets kicked out of his govt housing and is now living in car. Asks daughter to marry him. Daughter says yes. Daughter now wants to know, "are you going to be helping with wedding?" This would include both planning and finances. I should add that there has been an ongoing issue with daughter feeling like mom (my friend) never "supports her decisions". Many times she seems to be pushing my friend, just to show that in fact, see, you never support my decision. The only reason friend is even considering being involved is so that daughter won't go through with it just for spite. If the mom/daughter issue is not there, she might be able to see more clearly and possibly have a change of heart. Friend is leaning toward not being involved, but is worried that might shut the door altogether, leaving daughter on the other side whether she wants or not. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Obviously, she has tried to dissuade her daughter from marrying the guy, and it has not worked. I think she should not outright forbid it and threaten to "disown her", as this would surely make the guy more attractive. If she is completely set on marrying, I might offer her to have the wedding *I* consider appropriate for the couple's financial situation: a small informal family affair at home. Under no circumstances would I shoulder the cost of an elaborate wedding, nor would I contribute to the planning of such an event. I would make it perfectly clear that I did not consider this appropriate. But offering my yard and a homebaked cake and an informal outdoor dinner for immediate family? Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 No, I probably would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Obviously, she has tried to dissuade her daughter from marrying the guy, and it has not worked. I think she should not outright forbid it and threaten to "disown her", as this would surely make the guy more attractive. My friend would never consider that anyway. It's more that if she refused to contribute/help plan the wedding, daughter is the one who would consider that disowning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 "Dear, you are an adult and free to make your own decisions. I will not interfere with your marrying whomever you choose. I have made it clear what sort of support I am able and willing to provide. Financing your wedding is not included in that support. Those monies are designated for your education (which I will continue to support whether or not you go through with a wedding)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. I can see both sides of it- not being involved could further alienate mom and daughter but hosting a wedding between your daughter and a man who seems to have essentially no redeeming qualities is understandly rough. I have to wonder what going on with the daughter's self esteem and self worth that she is staying mired in this dramarama. The daughter is in her early 20s now? It is extremely difficult to find affordable housing when you are low income and have previously been kicked out of government housing. Marrying this man could easily be a ticket to homelessness. I guess I would lean towards helping with a modest wedding (like what Renegrude described) on the condition/strong encouragment that they do premarital counseling and planning with a well qualified counselor. Many an engagement ends when stuff comes up in premarital counseling/planning. And if that does not happen in this instance and the wedding proceeds, at least divorce is legal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 FWIW, this guy sounds like a master manipulator. "Mom won't let me move in with you? What if we get married? Surely she can't say no then..." I feel bad for the daughter but she is an adult and needs to own the consequences of her decisions. As does her bf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danybug Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This might not be totally realistic, but maybe the mother could say we are not financially prepared, so as we get the money together we would be glad to help if it is a date set "this far out". Then give a time frame set a year or more from now and maybe the daughter will mature out of the relationship and be able to make a better decision. Maybe she could throw in the can we help with school first as well. I think going a route like this might be safest in not "forcing" her to make a rash decision out of spite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 The daughter does not evaluate any situation well, from the description. If I were the mom, I am guessing that I might offer to pay for the license and for the Justice of the Peace fee. I would consider this wedding to be an "after the fact" event and keep things minimal and simple. A small family picnic somewhere for festivity. The daughter is going to judge her mother negatively, no matter what the woman does, I have the impression. Neither sense nor need for a fancy wedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This might not be totally realistic, but maybe the mother could say we are not financially prepared, so as we get the money together we would be glad to help if it is a date set "this far out". Then give a time frame set a year or more from now and maybe the daughter will mature out of the relationship and be able to make a better decision. Maybe she could throw in the can we help with school first as well. I think going a route like this might be safest in not "forcing" her to make a rash decision out of spite. I could see this totally backfiring as the dd becomes so enamored by the romantic wedding planning process that she fails to hone in on the fact that she's engaged to a deadbeat. But it might make the guy cut and run, if he realized he'd be spending the next 12 months living in his car, waiting for the wedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Where will they live if they get married? Is he thinking your friend will let him move in her house with dd and baby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 The daughter is going to judge her mother negatively, no matter what the woman does, I have the impression. Yep, I think you're right. This might not be totally realistic, but maybe the mother could say we are not financially prepared, so as we get the money together we would be glad to help if it is a date set "this far out". Then give a time frame set a year or more from now and maybe the daughter will mature out of the relationship and be able to make a better decision. Maybe she could throw in the can we help with school first as well. I think going a route like this might be safest in not "forcing" her to make a rash decision out of spite. That's a good idea, I will definitely share it. FWIW, this guy sounds like a master manipulator. "Mom won't let me move in with you? What if we get married? Surely she can't say no then..." I know, I keep thinking daughter must be clueless... I have to wonder what going on with the daughter's self esteem and self worth that she is staying mired in this dramarama. I am wondering this as well. She has had a good upbringing by my friend, but bad on the father's side (divorced). My friend is thinking the father experience must have had more impact that she thought it was having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 On a positive he has still stuck around in one form or another. It sounds like his form of sticking around has more of a parasitic purpose than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If this were my daughter, here is what I would offer: "Sweetie, I would love to help you, but my primary concern is for my grandchild. So, what I'd like to do is a small, affair at home or the state park or the gazebo at the courthouse or wherever. I'll cook and provide some nice food. We'll go down to David's Bridal and get a nice dress off the clearance rack and rent a suit for hubby. I'll wear a pretty outfit, and we'll get him a boutenniere and nice bouquet for you. But, instead of splurging for expensive pictures and decorations, or catered food, I feel that with finite resources, I need to spend more on the baby or to help ensure a viable, financial plan for my grandchild. In lieu of paying for a big event, I am going to pay for..." It could be six months rent in a safe neighborhood, small, but healthy apartment. It could be six months of daycare at the best place in town, or a year of diapers, wipes, and organic baby food. Whatever it is, it would be something that would help insure some stability and good care for the baby, and a legitimate offer to help. This leaves the door open for a future relationship with the couple and keeping tabs on that little one. I would not allow them to live at home if I could assist with some rent. If the marriage is going to have a chance, they are going to have to figure it out together. If the young woman determines that he's a lout and the relationship is not going to work, she needs to be able to come home WITHOUT him and if he's living there and knows how to work the system, he knows that once you agree to let him in, you have to go through the eviction process to get him out. It could be ugly and someone could be hurt. If he rises to the occasion, all the better, and he's more likely to do this if he doesn't have grandma there or feel there is someone constantly interferring in his relationship with his wife. Now, that said, if he's the kind of lout I think he is, he may abandon her as soon as he figures out that their won't be a honking big wedding/party for he and his buddies, and he won't be allowed to move in and live off his mother in law's paycheck. This is why my dear niece is not married to the father of her child. Once he realized that my brother and his wife would not be a cash cow for him personally, but would only do things to financially benefit his child and in ways that he couldn't readily get his hands on the money for, he zoomed on out of there and never looked back. Sigh....., but hey, now niece is working hard in college, supporting her child, my brother is able to be an excellent grandpa, and she is dating a decent young man who is loving to my great niece. It was hard at first, but working out now. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 My oldest child is eight, so take my opinion for what it's worth. I think it's a mistake to use wedding assistance as a means of voting on your child's choice of spouse. If your friend is considering helping out because she hopes to sabotage the relationship, that's likely to backfire in a huge way. If she always intended to help with wedding expenses (for someday in the future) or has money set aside from that, I would offer that money with the understanding that it could either be spent on a wedding or something else, such as buying a car, renting an apartment, etc. I would make it clear that this is a one-time gift of a defined quantity of money - not to be repeated in the future if she wants a different wedding someday or wants to be set up in a different kind of life. I would under no circumstances offer to pay for "a wedding" for my child, even if she were marrying the greatest guy in the world - I'd tell her how much money she could have, and she could decide how to spend it and where to get the extra money if she wanted things my gift wouldn't pay for. If she hasn't always planned on helping her kids with wedding expenses, I would say that. "Gee, honey, we've paid for your education, but I never set aside money for kids' weddings. I'm happy to listen to your ideas and help you think about how how you want to make it happen, though." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This might not be totally realistic, but maybe the mother could say we are not financially prepared, so as we get the money together we would be glad to help if it is a date set "this far out". Then give a time frame set a year or more from now and maybe the daughter will mature out of the relationship and be able to make a better decision. Maybe she could throw in the can we help with school first as well. I think going a route like this might be safest in not "forcing" her to make a rash decision out of spite. But that implies that the mother thinks this marriage is a good idea. I don't think that's the case. I think it's better to be truthful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly1730 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I've not read any of the responses but having just planned and paid for a wedding for our daughter, I can, without reservation, say "no". A wedding is more than a party, it's a commitment before God and man. Doesn't sound to me like this boy is committed. Sorry:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I've not read any of the responses but having just planned and paid for a wedding for our daughter, I can, without reservation, say "no". A wedding is more than a party, it's a commitment before God and man. Doesn't sound to me like this boy is committed. Sorry:( Being Christian, I agree with the bolded text. That is why I suggested a JP certificate instead of a religious-based wedding. I feel very, very sad for the daughter and baby. If OP's friend stands firm and does not allow them to sponge off her through providing living space and financial support -- and even if she does allow it -- the daughter and baby are in for a life even more miserable than it already may be. I am not walking in these people's shoes, so I can't know for definite how much monetary support I might be tempted/willing to provide for the sake of the baby's well being. I do believe that I would be there for the daughter, down the road, when everything blows up in Mt. Vesuvius style, and she needs a safe haven for healing and restarting her life. Currently, she has a recipe for future spousal abuse. I take no joy in saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'd probably make my help with the wedding conditional on 6 months' worth of couples' counseling. He is the baby's father and if he can manage to get his act together that would obviously be the best outcome for everyone. Certainly I've seen cases where loser boyfriends have managed to grow up and turn into decent husbands and fathers. He has to want to turn his life around, however. A good couples' counselor should hopefully be able to clarify whether the relationship can be saved, and if it can, help him get onto the right path. With the economy as lousy as it has been for as long as it has been, I think there are a fair number of young men who are clinically depressed and drifting aimlessly as a result. A counselor would be able to help with that, if it turns out to be the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 If she is completely set on marrying, I might offer her to have the wedding *I* consider appropriate for the couple's financial situation: a small informal family affair at home. <snip> But offering my yard and a homebaked cake and an informal outdoor dinner for immediate family? Sure. I agree. I also agree with paying for counseling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I would pay for counseling for certain, as well as a consultation with a family lawyer to learn the effects of a marriage on child custody. The thought of that choice makes me sick to my stomach to be honest. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhomemaker Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I would provide a small amount of funds for the wedding. If they want something over and above that amount, they will have to save for it. I would also help with planning- "help" being the operative word here. I would not do it all myself, but I would be involved. This marriage will either work out eventually, in which case you will want to look back and have the experience of being involved in your daughter's wedding, or it won't and she will need mom and dad. Either way, I think being involved is the best option for the parents. I especially wouldn't want to burn bridges and leave her feeling like she has no where to go. What if she stays in the marriage longer than she should because of that? As an aside, regardless of what the parents decide about the wedding, I think they do need to sit her down and explain what they will and will not do after the marriage takes place especially concerning living arrangements. It may be if the bf knows he can't freeload on them after the wedding, he will drop the whole idea. I don't think it's a coincidence that he proposed after they said he couldn't live with them. Sounds like he is trying to worm his way into a permanent mooching situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I've been thinking about this all evening. I just could not offer to pay for the wedding, or go along with helping to arrange the wedding as if everything's OK. Some might say to do that to stay in her good graces, but what does it really say to her? It might say to her that she knows he's a loser but even her mother doesn't seem to think she can do any better and so helps her to marry him. I would tell her that I can't think it's a good idea to marry a man of his poor character, but concede that other men have risen to the occasion in response to the love of a good woman and I know his future story is not yet written. He might have qualities she's observed that you have not yet seen for yourself. I would tell her I would like to be invited to the wedding if they do get married, and I would promise to be kind and supportive to them both as they start their new life together, treating him as a son if he is her husband. And I would tell her that I'd pray every day for the success of their marriage. No money for the wedding. No letting them live with me. No more college money, either. Where I come from, getting married is fairly well the definition of growing up (as if having a baby after graduating from high school wasn't) and adults receive encouragement and support from their families, they are not supported by their families. If she is not yet ready to grow up and leave home on her own steam, pooling her resources with her new husband's, then she may stay at home and continue her education according to the arrangement she already has with you. Flame away, whoever will, but parents are allowed a conscience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'm not sure how long it would take me to get past a slumped shouldered "You want me to pay for you to marry someone who isn't nice to you?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Hmmm. I'm tempted to say I'd match what they come up w/for it. Given the situation, that might be $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 My background- I got married in 1993 and had a $2,000 wedding and honeymoon because I don't believe in soaking my parents for a day of fluff, froof and photo ops. I believe it's taking a vow before God and mine was specifically, "God deal with me ever so severely if anything but death separates you from me." So I'm not a "let's see if this manages to work itself out" type gal. My parents (mom, dad, and step-dad) paid for it and I felt morally obligated to keep it simple even though they didn't put any limits on it. I was 20, my husband was 26, had an engineering career and owned a home. Neither of us had children. General policy with my daughters (now 17,15 and 7) That being said, there's no guarantee my daughters will have the same religious convictions I do. They may not take the teaching I gave them about life, love and relationships either. When they get married I plan to give them the amount of money we can afford for the wedding and a wedding gift. This avoids any mommy dearest manipulation that oppresses too many brides. Once it leaves my bank account it's up to the bride to decide how to spend it. If it's on fluff, froof and photo ops I will smile and say in a genuinely kind tone, "Isn't that nice." If it's on a Justice of the Peace, a cake and the rest goes into the bank for a down payment on a house, then I'll say the exact same thing in the same tone. Unless...... This specific situation- If there's a illegitimate grandchild involved with a flaky dad (and frankly, a flaky daughter in this situation) then it all changes. I will only cover the JP, and very inexpensive dress, cake and punch and a night at a modest hotel. Everything else will go into a fund for education or job training for the daughter because this daughter clearly has shown very poor judgement and can't be really trusted with important, life affecting decisions. She also can't afford NOT to go back to school or get job training because I guarantee you this baby daddy will be no support at all long term. Everybody needs to prepare for the daughter supporting her child herself and that means job training or college in a field that will actually feed, clothe and shelter her child. (No degrees in Philosophy, Medieval Literature, Renaissance Art,...) If you father a child but don't feel the need to work your butt off to support that child, then no, I wouldn't offer to let you stay with me even if you marry my daughter. If you father a child and are working really hard to support the child, I would seriously consider it. The hard work shows a repentant attitude for creating such a mess and shows he understands he made a huge mistake and is trying to make it right. I would also make it clear in one short, private conversation with the daughter why I think this marriage is a really bad idea. Then I would forever hold my peace. I would tell her, "You and (the grandchild's name) are welcome to come home to us any time, no questions asked, no I told you sos, no warning needed. Here's a key." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzymom Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 It must be heartbreaking so see her daughter go down this path with this guy. I could not pay for a wedding under these circumstances. I couldn't stop my d/d from compounding her mistakes and marrying the guy, but I could not help her do so. The wedding is really the cost of the license and gas to City Hall. I think some of the other suggestions are great. Offering to put money aside for baby's needs, daughter's education, daughter's counseling or couples counseling (though the "couples" portion of that would be a struggle for me) make more sense. What. a. mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 No money for the wedding. No letting them live with me. No more college money, either. I wouldn't pay for anything because my feeling is that if money is given then a pattern may be established and an expectation/demand for more will be forthcoming. Dd wants to get married then she can pay for it along with everything else, including the care of her child. This is a leech situation that won't see the end if the parents don't stop it now, IMO. I don't do manipulation or demands. My dc will make their choices and they will own those choices. At least that's what they've been told since they were old enough to understand. If they get angry because I won't pay for a wedding that's on them, not me. I should add that there has been an ongoing issue with daughter feeling like mom (my friend) never "supports her decisions". Many times she seems to be pushing my friend, just to show that in fact, see, you never support my decision. If it was my dd then I'd simply say, "You are right, I don't support your decision." No issue there because she's right, I don't. Dd can do with that what she wants to. Paying for a wedding of any sort would be, IMO, supporting a really, really bad decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Well, I have never expected to pay for any of my kids weddings. Yes, if they have one I will certainly get dressed up and go and celebrate with them. But I don't expect to PAY for the wedding. So I wouldn't expect your friend to be paying. That being said - if they needed $$$ to cover the courthouse fees for the license or the justice of the peace, I would probably give them that money as a gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 So the daughter and grandchild live with the mom, and babydaddy does not, and she wants to marry him and.... do what? They move out or he moves in? I'd help, modestly, with the former. I would not help with the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 A parent never owes a child a wedding IMO. There is NO way I would hand over a dime to this wedding. I think I would tell my daughter that when he mans up, has a job, and a living situation that would be safe for the daughter and the baby, you would consider supporting a marriage between them. She is not an adult. She may be age wise but she is living in her parent's home and taking advantage of their kindness to go to school and help with the baby. THAT is a gift and she seems not to be viewing it as such. Sometimes tough love and being the bad guy is appropriate. That is a parent's nightmare! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 One more thing- I'm not in general a fan of pre-nuptial agreements but in this case, the daughter absolutely needs to get one to prevent her from having to pay alimony in the event they divorce. More and more women these days are being forced to pay their ex-husbands alimony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'd not give a dime to either of them for anything. Which is not to say I wouldn't buy diapers, or babysit, or show up for the wedding. I'd have no qualms telling her I have no obligation to support her decisions, financially or otherwise. My job as mom is to guide and encourage wise and kind decisions, not to support everything they want or persist in doing even when their own children suffer for it. I'd tell her clearly that married or not, boyfriend isn't living in my house. (And I'd mean it too. No work + no contributing parenting = not living here. I'd be upset to have my kid and or grandkid stay with them, but that's her bad choice.) I'm presuming baby is otherwise cared for. If not, then that's a whole other issue. I hope that's one thing your friend doesn't have to worry about. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 in regards to education for her dd - if the mom choses to go that route (and yes -- something she can actually earn a living at), she needs to pay the actual school bill, NOT give the money to the dd. the dd might or might not have good intentions, but the guy is a manipulator and I wouldn't put it past him to steal school (or any other) money and blow it on himself. I do like the idea of making paying for a JP (which is all I would do) conditional on them having couples counseling and a minimum six month to a year engagement. (which could be enough to wake her up, or make him split.) and not be allowed to live with the parents. the guy is worthless and looking to be a leech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 He probably wants to get married so he can get back into housing. In many places, public housing is limited in who is eligible--a single non-disabled person generally isn't. A pregnant woman, single parent, or couple with a child can. Odds are that's why he was thrown out--he no longer qualified. That doesn't preclude him qualifying again once they're married. If she was my kid, I would probably make the offers to help with the child and her education unconditional, but not contribute to the cost of the wedding, though I would also not continually harp on my disapproval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 He probably wants to get married so he can get back into housing. In many places, public housing is limited in who is eligible--a single non-disabled person generally isn't. A pregnant woman, single parent, or couple with a child can. Odds are that's why he was thrown out--he no longer qualified. That doesn't preclude him qualifying again once they're married. If she was my kid, I would probably make the offers to help with the child and her education unconditional, but not contribute to the cost of the wedding, though I would also not continually harp on my disapproval. Yes, all of that and the never give cash for college either. I'd pay it online and I'd continue each semester that she could show me passing grades. Same goes for helping with grandbaby. I'd buy diapers, but not give cash. I'd babysit for her at classes, but not for him. And I wouldn't harp. I'd probably not say much of anything about it unless asked after I'd stated my stance. There's no point in harping about it. I stated what I'm willing or not willing to do and I'm not negotiating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 So sad. Why do women attach themselves to such losers?? My old neighbor had (on purpose) 3 kids by the time she was 20 with a bum who was in and out of jail. They all (even jailbird) lived in her mom's 2 bedroom house. What a waste! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I agree with the posters who believe he is just trying to get back on housing, and/or move in with the mom and live off her. That said.... I have seen this sort of relationship enough in my life to know (sadly) that these relationships only seem to completely die with divorce. So, getting married is one step closer to getting divorced and getting the poor girl moved on with her life. In no uncertain terms should the mother give the dd the impression that once this lout is her SIL he can move into her house. I would tell them both up front, anyone who is not respectful to my dd does not live under my roof. Period. But I would still pay for the darn wedding, as cheaply as I could for the sake of the grandchild involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'd make a specific $ amount available to her in an account in her name for any wedding she ever plans -- contingent on a certain # of months of bi-weekly post-engagement counseling or a particular # of sessions (which I would additionally commit to pay for directly to the provider). The money becomes available after the last of the appointments... Not for deposits or anything in advance. I would be clear that I wanted no say in the type of wedding or the selection of spouse. It's just an amount: and not a penny more (other than a wedding gift). It doesn't even need to be spent on a wedding -- a post-marriage house down payment, vacation, car purchase, or regular living expenses... Whatever. None of my concern. I'd also be clear about continuing to fund any acceptable education options for her. It's entirely possible that this will crash and burn. Better to have an educated single mom if it comes to that, than to cross that bridge later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Well, I think the dd is after a Bridezilla $$$ blingy type of wedding? That being said, if she really wants a wedding, I'd pay for the JP, cake and BBQ at my place. But there is NO way I am footing the bill for a lavish wedding for 2 kiddos who still need to grow up. Time has a way of waking up people to their folly in a severe manner. I like the idea of paying for her education regardless of her being married or a single mom. That girl needs a plan for $$ with a boyfriend like that. That poor baby born to those parents. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lots-o-rice Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just another look at this one. My SIL refused to pay for her dd's wedding. This is a different case SIL was in the wrong here. My niece's grandparents and other relatives paid for the wedding, and SIL and BIL got to act like mother and father of the bride. Not the best situation. Now, here is the rub. My SIL passed away suddenly 1.5 years later. (this March) My niece has taken her death very hard. Lots of unsolved relationship stuff that is very painful. Not having her mom with her at that very important part of her life was devastating, and now she is unable to work on that or do any mending. My suggestion is for her to do whatever she can to keep the relationship, but not enable and have dd understand her opinion on the situation. The idea of contributing to the wedding, but in a smaller way, using the money for caring for the child more is a good one. You never know what the future will hold, so holding on to relationships is so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennifersLost Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 There have been a few good suggestions. As someone who went through a time like this in my early 20s - and picked an awful man to have 3 kids with - I have to say that by not financing the wedding now, your friend may be able to give her the gift of a beautiful wedding someday to a wonderful man who really does love her. My family had to suffer through seeing me waste nearly 7 years on an abusive, addictive man (and I agree that this relationship sounds really ripe for later abuse, and I might argue it's happening now), before I finally left him. He was the one to push for our split because he'd run through all my money and resources at that point, and I began to grow up and see that I wanted something different in life. He ended up finding another woman willing to support him and sponged off of her for ages. Anyway, within 2 years of that split I met my husband (we've been married now for over a decade). I was so thrilled NOT to have been married prior to our wedding. I was able to state with a clean conscience that I would love him for eternity, and I was able to have friends and family and have a full on wedding because I had not used up that goodwill or money before. So, of course your friend has to decide for herself, but I think I would tell her dd that she and her boyfriend have not proven themselves responsible enough to be married and that I couldn't therefore fund it. I would say that I might change my mind if the two of them participated in family counseling for a year, and supported themselves for a year. I would delineate very clearly what I would and would not spend money on in the meantime. In other words, I would not allow the boyfriend to move in and be supported by me under ANY circumstances. This boyfriend is a master manipulator - he KNOWS that as soon as he's "the husband" your friend will be stuck supporting him for life. I have a feeling that with those two stipulations in place, the boyfriend will be long gone before any wedding takes place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I don't think I would help with the wedding, but I would continue to help with my grandchild and daughter's education. Of course I've never been in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Obviously, she has tried to dissuade her daughter from marrying the guy, and it has not worked. I think she should not outright forbid it and threaten to "disown her", as this would surely make the guy more attractive. If she is completely set on marrying, I might offer her to have the wedding *I* consider appropriate for the couple's financial situation: a small informal family affair at home. Under no circumstances would I shoulder the cost of an elaborate wedding, nor would I contribute to the planning of such an event. I would make it perfectly clear that I did not consider this appropriate. But offering my yard and a homebaked cake and an informal outdoor dinner for immediate family? Sure. This is wise sensible advice that would apply regardless of mother's like or dislike of fiance. When a grandchild is not being adequately supported by its parents, it does not make good sense to spend any more than a minimal amount on wedding festivities. Same applies when the adult child does not have marketable skills: allocate resources to vocational training or a functional college education. I am often flabbergasted by the amount that people are willing to drop on a wedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I really don't know what I would do. I think one idea would be "I'll pay $100 toward the cost of a JP etc, but if you finish your education (4 yr degree?), then I'll pay $1,000" Then hope that by the time she gets her degree she is finished with him. I would also have a heart to heart about where they plan to live and what would happen if they got kicked out of housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yes. After premarital counseling, parenting classes, budget classes/program, vocational training/college and substance abuse treatment (guessing the boyfriend is a stoner, or, at minimum, an addicted gamer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I would offer to match her dollar for dollar of what she saves from a paycheck. I would also tell her that she and baby can stay in the house, but with or without a marriage licence, the new hubby is still not welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 In this specific situation I would also be willing to schedule an appointment, drive her to the appointment and pay for birth control like a depo shot or something that has less room for user error. It's absolutely critical she doesn't have any more babies until she's in a stable marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 If I would put some money towards a wedding in general, I would put some money towards this wedding. I'd probably set a small amount and work with dd on how it would be used. Then, I'd tell her our wedding gift would be direct payment of daycare for X time period so she could finish the degree or training she chose or my wedding gift might be direct payment of tuition for X time period because the training that resulted from tuition would directly benefit the family. I'd be very careful going in because I'd want my dd to feel she had a safe place to return with the grandchild if things were bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I am not sure how I'd word it, but I would not pay for something that I believed would hurt my daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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