Dd9 charged for bathroom visits

[readinmom]

We received a letter home yesterday that stated that dd9 had used the bathroom __x___ amount of times during the week. It was calculated that she had wasted ___x______ amount of valuable instructional minutes and would be held in at lunch and recess to make up this time. Furthermore, we needed a note from a doctor if this was to continue.

 

??????????????????????????????????????

 

Not only does the government own my dd, they now control her bladder:confused:

[LibraryLover]

I'm sorry the school has so many issues, and that you have to send them when you are so reluctant. I hope you and your children can find some good people at the school and start to feel more comfortable.

 

I am not sure of your story...what happened that you are not hsing?

 

What's going on in your part of CA?

Edited October 25, 2012 by LibraryLover

[MomatHWTK]

I get a note from the doctor just for spite. I might be trying to be a good person, but I'm not that good. :glare:

[swellmomma]

We received a letter home yesterday that stated that dd9 had used the bathroom __x___ amount of times during the week. It was calculated that she had wasted ___x______ amount of valuable instructional minutes and would be held in at lunch and recess to make up this time. Furthermore, we needed a note from a doctor if this was to continue.

 

??????????????????????????????????????

 

Not only does the government own my dd, they now control her bladder:confused:

 

It would be a cold day in h*ll before I allowed my child to be punished for using the washroom. The only note they would be getting would be my notice of intent to homeschool.

[Guest submarines]

:blink:

[Mimm]

I think it's barbaric to restrict a child's access to the bathroom and I'm honestly appalled that it's so common in our schools. I'm sorry you are going through this, and I hope you'll make a stink at the school about it.

[SKL]

We received a letter home yesterday that stated that dd9 had used the bathroom __x___ amount of times during the week. It was calculated that she had wasted ___x______ amount of valuable instructional minutes and would be held in at lunch and recess to make up this time. Furthermore, we needed a note from a doctor if this was to continue.

 

??????????????????????????????????????

 

Not only does the government own my dd, they now control her bladder:confused:

 

I got a comment from my kids' teacher regarding frequent bathroom trips. Neither of them needs to go that often. I gathered that my dds were taking these breaks to escape the stress of the classroom. It was detrimental to their progress. I talked to them and told them to stop it.

 

It may sound petty, but unless your son is easily keeping up with his class, or really needs to empty his bladder that often, I think it's right to encourage him to stay in the classroom during instruction.

 

There's also the element of "what if everyone did that?" in PS.

[LibraryLover]

I got a comment from my kids' teacher regarding frequent bathroom trips. Neither of them needs to go that often. I gathered that my dds were taking these breaks to escape the stress of the classroom. It was detrimental to their progress. I talked to them and told them to stop it.

 

It may sound petty, but unless your son is easily keeping up with his class, or really needs to empty his bladder that often, I think it's right to encourage him to stay in the classroom during instruction.

 

There's also the element of "what if everyone did that?" in PS.

 

 

There is that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think you're cut out to be a ps parent.

 

I am not sure of your story...what happened that you are not hsing?

 

What's going on in your part of CA?

 

That's rather rude. Just because she is questioning the note from the school does not mean that she isn't a good ps parent.

 

I would talk to the teacher to find out if there are regular times set aside when the kids can go to the bathroom without disrupting instruction. Surely other children have bodily needs to that they take care of without censure.

[Dandelion]

That is just the height of absurdity. :001_huh: WOW.

 

I think I'd be having a very pointed conversation with the teacher noting that if "instructional minutes" are so valuable and critical that regular bathroom breaks cannot be accommodated, then the school - and this teacher - have a much bigger problem than my child's bathroom needs. Basically, I'd be telling them that if they can't do their jobs while still allowing kids to go to the bathroom, then they are the ones who deserve a &*&%! penalty - with a smile on my face and using nice words, of course. ;)

 

ETA: my perception of this issue is framed by the fact that I still - 35 years later - remember an incident where my kindergarten teacher refused to allow me to go to the bathroom when I really needed to. I ended up having an accident in my seat, in the classroom, and it was horrifying to me. So, I readily admit that I'm not the most objective person when it comes to this issue. I'm very much "pro-bathroom-rights". ;-)

Edited October 25, 2012 by Dandelion

[Aggie]

Can I ask how many times they said she used the bathroom? Does her class have planned bathroom breaks throughout the day? Or are they all expected to hold it all day?

 

As a former ps teacher, I *know* there were kids who went just to get out of lessons. But I couldn't not let them go. And I'm telling you, it's very disruptive for a child to leave in the beginning or middle of a lesson, esp multiple times per day. And when it's the same student, it's frustrating.

 

Do you think she might have a bladder infection? Does she use the bathroom a lot at home?

 

So you know, I had one child do this at home! Trying to get out of work, she was.

[myfunnybunch]

Furthermore, we needed a note from a doctor if this was to continue.

 

If I was a pediatrician, I'd be writing a nasty-gram to the school. Like they're not busy enough, now they have to write notes giving children permission to go to the bathroom? :001_huh:

 

Surely there's got to be a middle ground between saying to the kid, "You're spending an awful lot of time in the bathroom," and using teacher time tracking the number of minutes "wasted" in order to send home a penalty letter. What ever happened to a conversation with parents?

 

Sheesh.

 

Cat

[Annie G]

The kid could also be bored. When we were kids, we'd ask to go to the water fountain. Maybe it's like that- if the kid isn't used to sitting for long periods of time, she could just be having trouble staying focused.

[Jpoy85]

Wow. Thats crazy!

[swellmomma]

I get that multiple bathroom visits per class period are distruptive but at the same time I think that ps teachers forget what small bladders children have. I ad 2 accidents at school growing up. one in grade 1 because I asked to go to teh bathroom and was told no I had to wait until recess...30 minutes away. and once on a field trip in 3rd grade because I was told no I had to wait until lunch time when the whole class would get a bathroom break. Lunch time was over an hour away. I had to finish the field trip in wet clothes and humiliated. I can see having a child wait if the next typical break (recess/lunch) is in only a few minutes, but I know out here there is generally 2-2.5 hours between those natural breaks. My kids usually go to the bathroom every 90 minutes so they would need a few extra breaks per day for sure. I am sure many kids are the same.

[eloquacious]

So. Please read everything that follows with the big giant banner in front: I cannot believe what your child's school did. It is beyond absurd and grossly indecent ... as human beings.

 

That being said, as a former PS teacher, I can say that bathroom trips were INCREDIBLY disruptive to the classroom, particularly with the young men. Crazy things happened in bathrooms, things not worthy of discussion.

 

I also distinctly recall my one year in an American high school, and having to haul from one end of school to the other in 3 minutes because teacher A let us out 2 minutes later and teacher B didn't tolerate lateness. There is no way here to visit the locker for books, let alone use the WC... and yes, that meant that we had bladder infections and back pain.

 

The solution, which seems so obvious now in retrospect, was found in my German secondary school.

 

We got breaks.

 

As in, you know, recess. Kids got to go outside. Walk around, talk to each other. If it was cold and they preferred to stay indoors, they could do that, too. There was plenty of time to go to the loo.

 

How are we in such a time crunch as a society that we can't even allow children to go to the bathroom???

[Ghee]

Surely there's got to be a middle ground between saying to the kid, "You're spending an awful lot of time in the bathroom," and using teacher time tracking the number of minutes "wasted" in order to send home a penalty letter. What ever happened to a conversation with parents?

 

Sheesh.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Is this the first you've heard of it? That is what strikes me as bizarre. No "Ms XYZ, little Janie is in the bathroom 12 times a day and it's disruptive. I'd hate to keep her in if she has a medical issue, but, otherwise, we can't keep having her leave. Could you talk with her about it?" C'mon!

 

I would first talk to my child and find out how often SHE says she is going and how often SHE says she is allowed to go. Then I'd talk to the teacher. I'd see how information lined up. Sometimes kids miss hearing their row or table called, or they think they can't go yet because they aren't done copying spelling words or whatever. If (and only if) she is being given plenty of chances to potty during the day, but still seems to need more, we would go to the dr for a check up. If it turned out she was expected to hold it all day except for lunch or PE, we'd be having a serious convo at the school. Of course, a third option is that she would rather spend time in the bathroom than in the classroom. That would mean a serious convo at home. I'd still rule out a medical issue or too few allowances for bathroom visits first.

[Celia]

I think it's a good thing that these issues are monitored in ps. It can be a way to get out of class, and some pretty nasty things can go on during bathroom breaks in those school washrooms!

 

And if it is really a child needing to go often, well, they might need some encouragement to try to remember to go during the break. Busy socializing or playing, and forgetting to think of going to the bathroom until they sit down in class and are still. So in that case, perhaps a bit of detention or whatever might help with that.

[LibraryLover]

That's rather rude. Just because she is questioning the note from the school does not mean that she isn't a good ps parent.

 

I would talk to the teacher to find out if there are regular times set aside when the kids can go to the bathroom without disrupting instruction. Surely other children have bodily needs to that they take care of without censure.

 

 

Sorry it sounded like that. I was trying to offer sympathy, especially given her principal's "I own your kids" comment. I will think about how to reword so it does not sound rude.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sorry it sounded like that. I was trying to offer sympathy, especially given her principal's "I own your kids" comment. I will think about how to reword so it does not sound rude.

 

No problem. :001_smile:

[Pink Fairy]

OP, that is odd. What does your dd say? How many times a day are we talking about? If my kid was taking a lot of bathroom breaks when we were trying to do school I'd want to know why. Bladder infection? Boredom? But this teacher should have called and talked to you. The note is just unprofessional and a tad silly.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Mamabegood

[LibraryLover]

No problem. :001_smile:

 

I think it's ok now. I edited.

[Joker]

I think it's a good thing that these issues are monitored in ps. It can be a way to get out of class, and some pretty nasty things can go on during bathroom breaks in those school washrooms!

 

And if it is really a child needing to go often, well, they might need some encouragement to try to remember to go during the break. Busy socializing or playing, and forgetting to think of going to the bathroom until they sit down in class and are still. So in that case, perhaps a bit of detention or whatever might help with that.

 

Most schools don't have breaks anymore, though. Older dd goes to ps middle school and they only get 3 minutes between classes (there are over 1000 kids in her middle school and it is huge). She spends those minutes actually getting to and from class. Lunch is 25 minutes and after she goes through the line to get her food there is only enough time to eat. The only time to go to the bathroom is during class time which they discourage. It's absolutely crazy.

[T'smom]

I used to be a teacher. One year, the math schedule and one students bathroom needs did NOT mesh well. I tried everything, trying to get him to go earlier, asking if he could try to wait until after instruction.....but nothing worked. And he was NOT taking a short bathroom breaks. He was usually gone 20 minutes. Always the bulk of math instruction. I certainly would not send a note like the one that was sent, but I did have to have a convo with his mom. I was out of ideas and he was missing most of math every.single.day. I had no leeway as far as classroom schedule went. We had exact times we were supposed to be doing things and we were being checked up on.

 

Anyway I guess my point is just that teachers are trying to juggle everything the best that they can. It also may be a policy over which she has no control.

[ElaineJ]

I think it's barbaric to restrict a child's access to the bathroom and I'm honestly appalled that it's so common in our schools. I'm sorry you are going through this, and I hope you'll make a stink at the school about it.

 

Sorry, but the suggestion to "make a stink at the school" had me LOL in light of the topic under discussion. :lol:

 

What is it with public schools and bathroom usage lately? It seems like we've uncovered a trend here. Don't they have more important things to worry about?

 

Elaine

[Arcadia]

My 6 yr old needs to go toilet often if he drinks anything. His paediatrician is willing to write the school a note if he goes to B&M.

My 7 yr old has toilet phobia while in B&M and in the two years has never gone to the toilet.

 

I would ask how often the child goes to the toilet in a day before becoming defensive.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Was this an actual form letter or what?

[Catwoman]

We received a letter home yesterday that stated that dd9 had used the bathroom __x___ amount of times during the week. It was calculated that she had wasted ___x______ amount of valuable instructional minutes and would be held in at lunch and recess to make up this time. Furthermore, we needed a note from a doctor if this was to continue.

 

??????????????????????????????????????

 

Not only does the government own my dd, they now control her bladder:confused:

 

Honestly, I wish you had filled in the numbers in your OP, so we would know how many times she was excused from class to use the bathroom. If it was 5 times in a week, that's one thing, but if it was 50, that's something else entirely. We don't know whether or not she has repeatedly spoken with your dd about the problem, or if she thinks your dd is using bathroom breaks as an excuse to get out of doing certain subjects in school.

 

I assume you called the teacher immediately to ask what was going on, so I'm wondering how she responded.

 

Certainly, the teacher should have given you a call to discuss the problem before she sent you the letter, but perhaps the school's policy states that she has to put everything in writing.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Catwoman

[Elizabeth in MN]

People, this kid is NINE years old. Nine. That's not an adult sized bladder. Heck, we wouldn't be batting an eye if she were still wetting the bed because we know the bladder is too small still.

 

Another issue is constipation. It can be common in childhood. I know that, for me, it was hard to relax enough to relieve myself when the whole school was moving around the building.

 

In CA labor law you get a ten minute rest break for every four hours of work. If you work eight hours in a day you get an hour for a meal break IN ADDITION to the two ten minute breaks. Donuts to dollars the school is not extending these sensible laws to the kids.

[happi duck]

I'd be okay with something like: "Mrs. Jones, Billy uses the bathroom 10 times a day. Are there any medical issues of which the school should be aware? Also, I just wanted to let you know that when he misses instruction, I will keep him in from recess to be sure he understands the lesson."

 

The note the op received struck me as weird.

[Catwoman]

The note the op received struck me as weird.

 

I wish she had posted the actual note, instead of paraphrasing it, so we would have known exactly how many bathroom breaks her dd has been taking. The exact words would have also helped us interpret the tone of the letter.

[Steffanyace]

Just to rule it out . . . Frequent urination can be a symptom of diabetes.

 

Would the teacher let you sit in the class for a day? Maybe there is something going on in that class that is making her really uncomfortable.

[airforcefamily]

One of the reasons we how homeschool was the scheduled bathroom time with punishments for using the bathroom at other times in their private school. On one occasion I went directly to the principle to say how terrible the policy was.

[Rivka]

I wish she had posted the actual note, instead of paraphrasing it, so we would have known exactly how many bathroom breaks her dd has been taking. The exact words would have also helped us interpret the tone of the letter.

 

:iagree: I get that these may be JAWM rants, but I feel like these recent school-related posts are missing a lot of context that would help me decide whether to be outraged.

[Rivka]

Sorry it sounded like that. I was trying to offer sympathy, especially given her principal's "I own your kids" comment. I will think about how to reword so it does not sound rude.

 

It looks like "I own your kids" was another poster, actually.

[Hunter's Moon]

Ugh, this happened to me in PS Elementary. I was in 4th grade I believe.

 

The school pressured my mother so much that she brought me to get a bladder ultrasound.

 

Everything was normal, I just have to pee a lot. Still do.

 

AND the teacher asked my mother very loudly the morning after the ultrasound how my bladder was. I was so embarrassed :blushing:

[mrsrevmeg]

I would probably send the teacher asking how much class instruction time was wasted by timing my child's bathroom visits. But I am just snarky like that.

[momto3innc]

Without the amount of times listed, it's really difficult to make a judgement call.

As a former classroom teacher, you would have those kids that would want to go all. the. time. Always at the worst possible times. I found it very hard not to always let them go (because you never wanted a child to have a problem), but it was incredibly disruptive to the other kids as they came and went (and then it would usually start a chain reaction of everyone else wanting to leave) plus it affected the child who was leaving by missing instruction time. It doesn't mean the child was not very nice but I did have times where I had to talk to parents about their child's frequent breaks and try to figure out what the issue was. Because if they are gone say 4 times a day for 10 minutes each...well, that does add up. Not saying it's the case with your child OP, but I can see both sides.

Now if it's once a morning because they don't have good breaks...very much a school problem. If it's 4 or 5 times a morning?? Well, I would want to know if it was a physical problem or a different kind of issue.

Hope it gets resolved quickly!

[Dmmetler]

First of all, I think the note is a little over the top. Having said that, when I was a PS teacher, we had a 4th grade girl who ended up being DXed with diabetes because we noticed she was in the bathroom ALL the time, and told her parents about it.

 

I also think there are other reasons that a child might need a bathroom, like stress or sensory issues and that if this is discovered, maybe that can be managed better. My DD, when she was in preschool, would go to the bathroom and just sit for this reason-once her teacher figured out that was what she was doing, she would let DD sit under a table, where she could see/hear what was going on, but still have some separation from the group, when she needed to have a break, and it avoided the problem of having one child monopolizing the bathroom (in a class where most of the kids were only a year or two past toilet training and when they needed to go, needed to go NOW!).

[Jen+4dc]

:iagree:

 

Is this the first you've heard of it? That is what strikes me as bizarre. No "Ms XYZ, little Janie is in the bathroom 12 times a day and it's disruptive. I'd hate to keep her in if she has a medical issue, but, otherwise, we can't keep having her leave. Could you talk with her about it?" C'mon!

 

I would first talk to my child and find out how often SHE says she is going and how often SHE says she is allowed to go. Then I'd talk to the teacher. I'd see how information lined up. Sometimes kids miss hearing their row or table called, or they think they can't go yet because they aren't done copying spelling words or whatever. If (and only if) she is being given plenty of chances to potty during the day, but still seems to need more, we would go to the dr for a check up. If it turned out she was expected to hold it all day except for lunch or PE, we'd be having a serious convo at the school. Of course, a third option is that she would rather spend time in the bathroom than in the classroom. That would mean a serious convo at home. I'd still rule out a medical issue or too few allowances for bathroom visits first.

:iagree:

 

I'd be okay with something like: "Mrs. Jones, Billy uses the bathroom 10 times a day. Are there any medical issues of which the school should be aware? Also, I just wanted to let you know that when he misses instruction, I will keep him in from recess to be sure he understands the lesson."

 

There's better ways to address this than an threatening note. How about a questioning or friendly "Please help me figure this out to help your child" note.

[LisaKinVA]

I wouldn't have appreciated the tone of the note, that is for certain. As others have said, there are more appropriate ways to handle it.

 

It's been a long time since I was in elementary school...I don't recall any issues with bathroom use during class time. I recall breaks between subjects (where we were excused), I recall having morning and afternoon recess, plenty of opportunities. Every once in awhile, I had to use the bathroom during class...but I don't remember that being a regular occurrence.

 

There were more problems in MS/HS...not having time for anything.

[bettyandbob]

I think you need to ask how many times a day your child is going to the bathroom. Also ask is the child going at specific breaks (between lunch and recess, on the way to "specials", etc). Does the teacher give bathroom breaks in addition to the times your child is going.

 

The children are in the school building 6.5 hours. How many times should a child typically need to go?

 

Is your child going to bath room during every reading instruction period (or other class). Is this because your child does not like the subject or because the class occurs shortly after lunch or arrival at school (could she go to the bathroom at lunch or upon arrival at school to remedy this).

 

You need to look at the number of times and the class periods.

 

I don't think you need to jump to the school/teacher is unreasonable until you do the research. It is possible that your child gets up during an instructional period a couple times a day. She is missing that subject and her moving in and out of the room and requesting a pass, etc is disrupting 24 other students as well.

 

So, look at all the factors that affect when your child is going to the bathroom. I would not expect a child to need more than 3 bathroom trips in a 6.5 hour day. I would expect at 9 most children could adjust to specific natural breaks between instructional subjects, but there could be poor scheduling issues in the school day that need to be addressed.

[blondeviolin]

So she has to stay over breaks when she would naturally have time to use the restroom? And that's supposed to fix her not going during class? :001_huh:

[Ali in OR]

Having been a public school teacher, I would be talking to my child about why she is missing so much class. My attitude would be to side with the teacher and support her authority. My children do not have any problem "holding it" during long car rides, long days at sporting events, at home, etc., so it would be rather suspicious that they need to use the bathroom often during schoolwork.

 

As a teacher I did have one student who had a legitimate need to be able to get to a bathroom frequently (her mom discussed it with me). I seated her near the door and she was allowed to discreetly step out to use the bathroom whenever she needed to (high school student). Once she had permission, she really didn't use the privilege much, but it reduced her stress and anxiety to know that she could if she needed to. If I had a child in that situation, I would discuss the problem with her teacher and find a solution that works for both the child and the teacher. But for my healthy kids with no particular bathroom issues? I expect them to time their bathroom needs for break times.

[Slipper]

When my two (homeschool) girls were in school, they both had problems going to the bathroom. My middle daughter has celiac disease and sometimes, if she needs to go, she needs to go WITHOUT asking permission. That happened approximately twice a year. With permission, maybe four times a year. The rest of the time, she was able to go during scheduled break times. I don't know if the OP's child has to change classes if she is nine years old. Here, class changes do not begin until 5th grade.

 

My younger daughter had stress which led to urine and fecal problems during the day. She was too embarrassed and ashamed to ask to go to the bathroom.

 

The school discouraged using the bathroom except during regular breaks due to vandalism going on in the bathrooms. It was a concern that if a student walked in on the person doing the vandalism, they could get hurt. My girls were still allowed to go whenever they needed and we did provide a doctor's note.

 

And bathroom shenanigans are legendary almost anywhere. :) Especially boys. Water fights, flinging wet toilet paper, even smearing feces along the walls at the school my girls attended. Scissors were confiscated after they realized someone was carving racial slurs into the stall walls.

 

I, also, wish you had posted how many times a day (or week) that your child was using the restroom.

[RoundAbout]

The tone of the note is the problem. I would hope that teachers/school would fill me in on excessive bathroom use, at the very least because it might be a sign of a medical condition that needs to be checked out. I don't think anything is gained, and much is lost, when an adversarial tone is set from the get go. Suppose this girl does have a problem - whether its hating school, math anxiety, diabetes, or drinking too much OJ in morning. What purpose does punishment serve, except to be made guilty about one's feelings and basic bodily functions? I don't understand why this couldn't have been brought up in a more productive and friendly manner.

[tangomoon]

Completely agree that a conversation with the parent should have been the first move to help determine what's going on.

 

In CA labor law you get a ten minute rest break for every four hours of work. If you work eight hours in a day you get an hour for a meal break IN ADDITION to the two ten minute breaks. Donuts to dollars the school is not extending these sensible laws to the kids.

 

Unless CA is vastly different from the other states where I and my husband have previously taught, it's not being extended to the teachers, either. It's not uncommon at all for teachers to still need to be on duty throughout the lunch period. In larger schools we had a planning period, but often in the smaller ones we didn't. Dealing with pregnancy bladder while teaching was harsh ~ I'd have to ask a fellow teacher to stand between the doors of our classrooms while I raced as quickly as possible.

[Joanne]

The tone of the note is the problem. I would hope that teachers/school would fill me in on excessive bathroom use, at the very least because it might be a sign of a medical condition that needs to be checked out. I don't think anything is gained, and much is lost, when an adversarial tone is set from the get go. Suppose this girl does have a problem - whether its hating school, math anxiety, diabetes, or drinking too much OJ in morning. What purpose does punishment serve, except to be made guilty about one's feelings and basic bodily functions? I don't understand why this couldn't have been brought up in a more productive and friendly manner.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

There *are* legit reasons for frequent bathroom access. There are professional, kind, and ways to assume positive intent actions that professionals can take to engage parents.

 

However, there tends to be a "tone" here about these threads that any restriction of bathroom activity is inappropriate. I've taught school. I now lead psychoeducational and process groups. The disruption of frequent leaving the classroom is signficicant.

[happi duck]

I would probably send the teacher asking how much class instruction time was wasted by timing my child's bathroom visits. But I am just snarky like that.

 

:D

[kristi26]

So, I have to chime in here. When I was a kid, I actually had an undiagnosed medical condition for several years before anyone took notice. It made me have to go to the bathroom every 30 minutes or so. I am POSITIVE that my teachers just thought I was trying to get out of class. I was not. Honestly. I would wait until I couldn't anymore and then ask. It was embarrassing going all the time but I had to! Even in high school, I would go between every single class and sometimes even had to ask during class too.