Why do people think personal fundraising is OK...

[bettyandbob]

There are more and more people telling people they want cash at their wedding--I was taught that you tell people what to give you may make suggestions if asked, but you don't demand.

 

This has trickled down to birthdays.

 

And today I read the post about requesting random people to help with summer camp costs. However this is the first time. I've heard of people making such random requests for sports or school tuition.

 

I thought you were to live within your means and budget for things you wanted. Sure other people get to go the exclusive camp. I wish my kids could go, but I won't beg people on the street and I don't want to teach my kids that they have some entitlement to camp and begging is an acceptable means to fulfill the entitlement.

 

How did this behavior start. Are children being set up to believe they should always just have what they want no matter the family circumstance. What does this say about our culture.

[Tracey in TX]

Hooray! I thought I was the last person standing with these beliefs. It scares me for our societal future setting our children up with such high, unsustainable desires. Makes me think of the end of the Roman Empire where greed, lust, and desires were the ultimate downfall of a great civilization (subject to interpretation, of course).

 

When I was pregnant with our triplets and already had two toddlers, it was the hardest thing imaginable to list specific needs for baby gifts. One baby shower was actually cash (suggested by hostess) only b/c the outrageous cost of a triplet stroller. It was the only way we could afford it, but couldn't literally leave house w/o one. In retrospect it probably appeared greedy, but felt that God had allowed this situation for me to be humbled. It worked.

 

I see your point, and ITA. Wish we could return to a bit simpler times voluntarily. Not sure we, as a nation, as capable of doing so in crisis mode yet.

[jmgconner]

I see the trend as well. My DSIL is such a sweet person, but she sends out the link to her DD's gift registry with the birthday party invitation. I didn't know that we now have gift registries for birthdays? :confused:

[clarkacademy]

I don't think it's right. I would never dream of it.

[Plucky]

That makes me ill.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm reminded of the days during the depression when a hobo wouldn't dream of taking a handout without doing some work for it first. I remember hearing one story of a family where their woodpile was moved from one spot to another - not because it needed to be, but because they needed to give the hobos something to do to earn their sandwich and hot coffee!

 

What happened to our self-pride (the good kind) that wants to feel good about working hard for the things in our life. And our graciousness in accepting it when someone gifts us unexpectedly and generously (but not in asking for it)?!

[Jennifer in MI]

I'm reminded of the days during the depression when a hobo wouldn't dream of taking a handout without doing some work for it first. I remember hearing one story of a family where their woodpile was moved from one spot to another - not because it needed to be, but because they needed to give the hobos something to do to earn their sandwich and hot coffee!

 

What happened to our self-pride (the good kind) that wants to feel good about working hard for the things in our life. And our graciousness in accepting it when someone gifts us unexpectedly and generously (but not in asking for it)?!

 

Amen!!!! The sense of entitlement just kills me.

 

I think this trickles down to all sorts of other things too. I volunteer for an organization and I'm seeing more and more that people are expecting gifts and all for their time. We're supposed to be VOLUNTEERS people!!! Yes, an occasional, "thank you for volunteering" is fine. But, I headed up a state-wide conference for this organization. When I sent out the emails with certificates for discounts on the registration for people who had extra positions, I was often asked, "Is this ALL I get?" Grrrrr. . . .

 

This has become a real pet peeve of mine . . . More to say - but I gotta' go drop kids off at karate!

[Pajama Mama]

I think it's crazy to have registries for kids birthdays. I make an exception for *my* mom who doesn't live near us. I make up wish lists on Am*zon.com for my kids' bdays and Christmas. That way she has a wide choice of items that the kids like and then she can have it shipped here. We didn't do this when the kids were younger. But now they like certain things and she'd rather get them what they really want. But registries for kids in general is crazy.

 

ETA:After posting I remembered that I do ask for money for one for my kids bdays and such. Well, I don't ask but if folks ask me what to buy him I suggest cash mostly. He's a special needs kids and toys and equipment for him are very expensive. He's mentally challenged so people never know what age to buy for him anyway. This thread makes me wonder. Do you think that I offend people when I ask for cash for him?

[Tammy]

I thought you were to live within your means and budget for things you wanted. Sure other people get to go the exclusive camp. I wish my kids could go, but I won't beg people on the street and I don't want to teach my kids that they have some entitlement to camp and begging is an acceptable means to fulfill the entitlement.

 

I didn't see where she was 'begging' people on the street... I also didn't read into that email that her kids thought they had an entitlement to go to camp.

 

I really don't see the big deal....it doesn't hurt to ask for help. If you don't want to help....you certainly don't have to. She asked her acquaintances....not people on the street. Since so many people feel it was rude....I doubt she will get enough money to send her kids anyway....

 

Tammy

[nancypants]

There are more and more people telling people they want cash at their wedding--I was taught that you tell people what to give you may make suggestions if asked, but you don't demand.

 

This has trickled down to birthdays.

 

And today I read the post about requesting random people to help with summer camp costs. However this is the first time. I've heard of people making such random requests for sports or school tuition.

 

I thought you were to live within your means and budget for things you wanted. Sure other people get to go the exclusive camp. I wish my kids could go, but I won't beg people on the street and I don't want to teach my kids that they have some entitlement to camp and begging is an acceptable means to fulfill the entitlement.

 

How did this behavior start. Are children being set up to believe they should always just have what they want no matter the family circumstance. What does this say about our culture.

 

:iagree: The entitlement mentality is rampant here in Canada as well.

[plain jane]

I see it as a reflection of how self-centred and materialistic our culture has become.

 

With the use of credit cards so rampant there is no longer the mentality amongst most people to spend within their means. Unfortunately, most people, don't even know what their means are anymore. Everyone wants bigger and better and they want it now. With credit so readily available most people no longer feel the need to wait and work towards what they want. They buy it now and deal with the consequences later. It's all about instant gratification.

 

Our culture has become so materialistic that there is no longer a clear distinction between wants and needs. For most people things like camps and sports are not "nice-ities" they are necessities. Everyone else is doing it, so should they. No matter what the cost.

 

I think media and TV play a big role in this too. So much of what is portrayed in the media and advertising is *me* centred. What can *I* get? What's in it for *me*. Parents are not imparting on their children the joy of serving others because they themselves have not learned that. I think it's very sad.

[Rebecca in GA]

We had to give up a few things to get our children to summer camp this year, and it never would have occurred to me to ask for help. We're not destitute by any means and we do try to step in and fill needs when we can, but I would have a difficult time providing someone's luxuries.

 

A friend of mine once worked as a church secretary, and she told me about two "have needs" cases that came in. One was a transient couple who drove up in a battered van and asked for a cooking pot. They had very obvious needs but said they were fine, that they had plenty of cans and boxes of food but just needed something to cook them in.

 

The other was a young person in a very nice car who wanted the church to help with his/her (can't remember which) gym membership and cable TV bill, along with other utilities. My friend was blown away by this person's attitude of entitlement and what s/he perceived as "necessities."

 

Could someone link the thread to which the OP referred?

[plain jane]

Could someone link the thread to which the OP referred?

 

Here's the link to the thread.

[Rebecca in GA]

Here's the link to the thread.

 

Thank you! :)

[Holly IN]

I agree....

 

The only time I would actually make suggestions is if people asked me what to get my child. My dd is having a birthday party this Friday so only one of the parents asked me what my child wants. I told her a gift card would be great since she is trying to save up for Shirley Temple dvds. Everybody else didn't ask and I didn't tell. I didn't feel right in doing so. Same with Christmas even though I wish my MIL would ask us. We end up throwing all of her gifts away because they were junk!! We rather that she not give us gifts and save her money since they need it more than we do.

 

I am not sure where the whole entitlement mentality is coming from but I have a feeling it is only going to get worse.

 

Holly

[Shelly in IL]

Hahahahahaha!!

[plain jane]

 

I am not sure where the whole entitlement mentality is coming from but I have a feeling it is only going to get worse.

 

Holly

 

 

:iagree:

[Jennifer in MI]

Hahahahahaha!!

 

Seriously LOL!!! I'll pitch in if you'll pitch in for my fund - I have to order a Sonlight Core plus supplements, Rainbow Science (ouch!), and NOEO Science yet.

[Melinda in VT]

I didn't see where she was 'begging' people on the street... I also didn't read into that email that her kids thought they had an entitlement to go to camp.

 

I really don't see the big deal....it doesn't hurt to ask for help. If you don't want to help....you certainly don't have to. She asked her acquaintances....not people on the street. Since so many people feel it was rude....I doubt she will get enough money to send her kids anyway....

 

Tammy

 

Well, the dictionary definition of beg ("to ask for as a gift, as charity, or as a favor") doesn't say anything about being on the street. I don't see much distinction between holding out a hat to a stranger on the street and sending an email to friends and acquaintances. It's begging either way.

[teamturner]

Seriously LOL!!! I'll pitch in if you'll pitch in for my fund - I have to order a Sonlight Core plus supplements, Rainbow Science (ouch!), and NOEO Science yet.

 

So funny! I'm getting Winter Promise...help me please!

 

I agree with the other ladies in that I only give gift suggestions if I am asked. One year, I decided I just didn't want my twin boys to get so many toys at all, so I had each guest bring a new book and we had a book exchange. (Their b-day is just before Christmas so the toy population really explodes that time of year, KWIM?) My kids have never been to camp and I doubt they ever will. The only camps I ever went to were church youth camp and church choir camp (very affordable)!

 

For those of us who are Christians, I think we have to remember that all we have comes from God and He gives us what we need and contentment would need to be exercised in our hearts. I know I have struggled with contentment at various times and I have had to pray for God to work in my heart to help me trust in His provision.

[VaKim]

I see it as a reflection of how self-centred and materialistic our culture has become.

 

With the use of credit cards so rampant there is no longer the mentality amongst most people to spend within their means. Unfortunately, most people, don't even know what their means are anymore. Everyone wants bigger and better and they want it now. With credit so readily available most people no longer feel the need to wait and work towards what they want. They buy it now and deal with the consequences later. It's all about instant gratification.

 

Our culture has become so materialistic that there is no longer a clear distinction between wants and needs. For most people things like camps and sports are not "nice-ities" they are necessities. Everyone else is doing it, so should they. No matter what the cost.

 

I think media and TV play a big role in this too. So much of what is portrayed in the media and advertising is *me* centred. What can *I* get? What's in it for *me*. Parents are not imparting on their children the joy of serving others because they themselves have not learned that. I think it's very sad.

 

:iagree:

[elegantlion]

I need a car. :auto: It's for field trips and such.

 

(rolling eyes) Yes, the spirit of entitlement drives me bonkers. My dh is a self-employed carpenter. He has had a few people work for him that ask for money everyday and then disappear for a few days after payday. Then they wonder why they are broke!

 

Ds and I had a great chat about the difference between needs and wants. The classical science program has a great little section in chapter two on wants vs needs.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

it's tough right now for just about everyone I know. We sent our kids to MK camp here this past week, but, we had to save for it and give up other things in order to have the money for that.

 

I know a lot of people who do the same. I guess it shocked me to see that e-mail being sent about needing money for camp because, in my circle of friends, people would just basically say, "I guess camp is out for this summer. We'll find an affordable alternative if we can for you." Some would have parents that would help, but, even then, most would save that help for a true emergency.

 

I see it in the attitudes of a lot of people. They don't want a starter house, they want the dream house right off even if it's out of their budget. They want new furniture for their house, so they buy it on credit. They want the fancy SUV. Now they can't afford it all and it's the mentality that other's will have to help them out. It's sad. There's no sense of accomplishment for building from the ground up like so many of our parents and grandparents did. Why is that?

[jonesloonybin]

We did register for our wedding and had a "wishing well" for cards and some people put money but it was never asked for. My mother in law always asks for a list for all of us for Christmas. Otherwise if someone asks what they should get for my kids for Birthdays, I will give them general ideas...(ex: she really likes art or horses or boardgames) I never say specific things. That way they can choose. Now I will say that when either set of grandparents ask if they kids need or want anything I will mention "homeschool" type games or things. And for the "christmas list" for dh and I , I am going to mention a gift card for Office max since we need a new printer. But the grandparents like christmas lists. Also, my kids will make lists or look through catalogs and circle things they like for christmas...but they know that does not mean they are getting it...just giving us ideas of what interests them...and I usually have Catalogs that have educational or creative toys..not just Toys r us.

[nitascool]

I have 4 children. My oldest would love to go to camp this year. I'd love to send him. We can't afford it (among many other things). Our church would pay for camp if we asked. But we decided that there are other children who would benefit much more from the experience then our son. I have no problem asking, but with the funds being limited I want the child who needs it most (that child who's parents aren't believers) to go.

 

On the other hand our local art center is having a day camp this year. We can afford exactly half. My dh and I have decided to ask for assistance from his grandparents. We won't be doing a mass email, but we will be "begging" for a little help from those who really love him. (He is artistically gifted, he very seldom asks for anything, and he has offered to 'work it off".)

 

Next year this same son will be participate in Soapbox Derby. His aunt and uncle head our local chapter. While we'd love for him to be involved there is no way we could afford the cost, which is much more then the cost of camp. His aunt and uncle have agreed to fund his participation (equipment cost), provided that we pay the modest entry fees.

 

*Just a side note... they asked that he be involved in Soapbox Derby because they are concerned about his socialization. The truth is we just couldn't afford to fund that type of socialization even if I worked a full time job.

 

My dh has a low paying job, our life extras include a membership to the YMCA (sliding scale 4th of the cost of a regular membership) which came out of our school budget and DSL. Once a month we go out to eat at Subway or McDonald's. If we want our children to do anything that cost extra we have to take it out of our "school fund" which has already been spent for this year.

 

So we do ask for assistance on occasion. By no means do we feel or allow our children to feel entitled to assistance. In most cases we ask their grandparents privately with the qualifier that we'd like them to "Think about it and see if it's in their budget".

 

As they get older our children will be earning their way to many things, not entirely for the experience of the work ethic either. Even at 8 my ds has begun to experiment with his earning potential.

 

It won't always be this way for our family. Dh is making steps to raise his income. If he and/or I were sitting on our butts eating Bon Bons all day then I couldn't in good conscience ask our families for assistance... but because he is working toward more financial stability, we don't waste the finances that we do have, and I stay home because our children's education is of most importance... I don't see a problem with asking for occasional assistance to do an extra. *When I say occational... we've asked for assistance from my parents exactly once, and his parents exactly 3 times in the 10 3/4 years we've been married.

[74Heaven]

I would never ask for anything. It is just my nature and how I was raised. Do it yourself; earn it yourself. Work for it.

 

OTOH, I have thought sometimes about asking some rich relatives if they would mind paying for camp or piano lessons or something. And I have relatives who are extremely wealthy, i.e. the mansion with pool, several acres and cabins at a lake, several companies etc. These are also very generous relatives.

 

We say no to a lot of opptys for out kids based solely on budget. If we had the money, we'd allow more drama classes, dance, piano, more travel, etc. In fact, I'd order homeschool curriculum more differently, if we had more money. (And we have plenty of money btw, just life seems to cost a lot!)

 

It seems to me that most of our friends get financial help and assistance from relatives, parents, etc.

 

My general thinking is (and yes, I know this), they'd love to pay (help out) if only I could bring myself to ask...

 

But alas, I can't. And I think that is good because asking/receiving changes the relationship somehow.

 

But...

[rockermom]

I felt bad with wedding and baby registries. I felt like I was telling people to buy me stuff.

 

For DS (1)'s birthday, when someone would ask, I would say that he needed nothing (true). If they wanted they could deposit $5 or $10 into his savings... or they could buy whatever they wanted. I wanted them to be clear that "nothing" was my preference.

 

I think birthdays have become outrageous. We only have family birthdays.

[Scarlett]

It seems to me that most of our friends get financial help and assistance from relatives, parents, etc.

 

My general thinking is (and yes, I know this), they'd love to pay (help out) if only I could bring myself to ask...

 

But alas, I can't. And I think that is good because asking/receiving changes the relationship somehow.

 

But...

 

BUT, I for one am glad you are not asking. That is the whole point. EVERY person on this board knows someone who has more than them, but we don't have automatic rights to what is not ours.

 

What this thread is making me aware of is that I might be missing opportunities to really help people in my life. THAT is what I am going to focus on now.

 

p.s. I could really use a new car, so if anyone has anything extra....;)

[Rebecca in GA]

What this thread is making me aware of is that I might be missing opportunities to really help people in my life. THAT is what I am going to focus on now.

 

That is a great thing to take away from this thread! It really does put things in perspective to fill a personal need, and I have found peace and contentment in my own circumstances when I serve someone else.

[HSMom2One]

I see it as a reflection of how self-centred and materialistic our culture has become.

 

With the use of credit cards so rampant there is no longer the mentality amongst most people to spend within their means. Unfortunately, most people, don't even know what their means are anymore. Everyone wants bigger and better and they want it now. With credit so readily available most people no longer feel the need to wait and work towards what they want. They buy it now and deal with the consequences later. It's all about instant gratification.

 

Our culture has become so materialistic that there is no longer a clear distinction between wants and needs. For most people things like camps and sports are not "nice-ities" they are necessities. Everyone else is doing it, so should they. No matter what the cost.

 

I think media and TV play a big role in this too. So much of what is portrayed in the media and advertising is *me* centred. What can *I* get? What's in it for *me*. Parents are not imparting on their children the joy of serving others because they themselves have not learned that. I think it's very sad.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

I am SO with you on this one, Jane! And I hate it so much when people put so much emphasis on the gifts during any of the holidays...it's like that's the only point of the holiday vs. time with each other and the other wonderful traditions that are part of that special day. People have also forgotten about the simple joys of giving and receiving. I don't want anyone to tell me what to buy them for a gift. I love the process of thinking it through and making it personal from my heart. I love it when I'm the recipient of that type of giving as well -- rather than listing what I want and just getting it.

 

Let's just throw away all the lists and registries, don't you think? We can join forces and be rebels!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[KidsHappen]

So kids didn't go and I haven't heard a word about it. They seem to be getting the overall, "we can afford it" thing. Although my youngest recently over heard my dh and I talking about how the price of corn was going up and she asked today if we could still make cookies as it doesn't have corn in it. Gotta love a kids who has her priorities strainght, if we can still make cookies, then life is good. :)

[Fourmother]

I guess people do it because it works. Someone must be responding to these fundraising drives, otherwise the beggars wouldn't keep doing it. And it's not just requests for cash and gifts. One of my peeves is being asked to pay to attend a party. Once I was invited to a baby shower tea at the Four Seasons. The admission was $20. It really was a shame since the mother-to-be is a down to earth person who would never do something so tacky. The woman who was the hostess, well she is quite a different story. Here's another one... When a cousin graduated from high school 10-15 years ago, my aunt hosted a lovely dinner/cruise celebration. We were asked to pay $50 per person for the privilege, not including any gift. :lol: When I get things like this I just ignore them or send my polite regrets.

[Pine Ledge Academy]

This has been an interesting thread...and has led to a few thoughts...

in this country, most of us have more than we need, I know my family does.

in this country there are always others in need, what am I doing about that?

we should desire our legacy to be not what we had or our accomplishments, but how much we loved others...and that can take so many forms.

and, if someone felt the need to ask someone for something, I am not the one to judge her motives. I can cast no stones, for I am also guilty of something every day. Be gracious.

[Sojourner]

And it's not just requests for cash and gifts. One of my peeves is being asked to pay to attend a party. Once I was invited to a baby shower tea at the Four Seasons. The admission was $20. It really was a shame since the mother-to-be is a down to earth person who would never do something so tacky. The woman who was the hostess, well she is quite a different story. Here's another one... When a cousin graduated from high school 10-15 years ago, my aunt hosted a lovely dinner/cruise celebration. We were asked to pay $50 per person for the privilege, not including any gift.

 

Along these lines, I just don't get the reasoning (or as a teacher of mine used to say "the unmitigated gall")behind "destination" weddings where you are expected to pay for travel and accomodations as well as a gift. Spoke with a neighbor about this and she said, "oh you just use it as your vacation trip that year"! This is the neighbor who is in debt up to their eyeballs. No thanks!

[Audrey]

There are more and more people telling people they want cash at their wedding--I was taught that you tell people what to give you may make suggestions if asked, but you don't demand.

 

This has trickled down to birthdays.

 

And today I read the post about requesting random people to help with summer camp costs. However this is the first time. I've heard of people making such random requests for sports or school tuition.

 

I thought you were to live within your means and budget for things you wanted. Sure other people get to go the exclusive camp. I wish my kids could go, but I won't beg people on the street and I don't want to teach my kids that they have some entitlement to camp and begging is an acceptable means to fulfill the entitlement.

 

How did this behavior start. Are children being set up to believe they should always just have what they want no matter the family circumstance. What does this say about our culture.

 

 

I don't know how it started, but it needs to stop. It won't stop unless people with principles stand up against such overt expressions of greed. I have ALWAYS found personal requests for money (as you described) to be the tackiest of the tacky things one can do. It is an egregious affront, AFAIC. :glare:

 

When I receive one of these "requests," I refuse to send any kind of gift, period. I will not bow to this culture of presumed entitlement. When asked why no cash, I am also not at all afraid to tell people who make these requests how disgusted I am that they would stoop so low.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Audrey

[Danestress]

Many (not all) people who have "destination weddings" are using it as crowd control. They already know that you won't make the trip for the wedding, and they were sort of hoping you wouldn't - not "you" in particular of course, but many guests.

 

I think a lot of young couples look around and see their parents putting wedding pressure on them, maybe they have a dozen friends who want to be a bridesmaid and 4 dozen co-workers who will be insulted if they aren't invited, and their parents are social and have a lot of friends who expect an invitation. FOr those couples, a 'destination wedding' can be a way to meet the expectation that they will invite those people without having a 400 person wedding.

 

I hate weddings. I hate all weddings. I have never been to a wedding I didn't hate other than my own, which I didn't hate but wouldn't never call the "best day of my life" lol. I think brides who really don't like weddings and really don't want one sometimes choose destination weddings as a way to make Mom happy by inviting all her friends without having acutally host a party for them.

[Blessedfamily]

I'm reminded of the days during the depression when a hobo wouldn't dream of taking a handout without doing some work for it first. I remember hearing one story of a family where their woodpile was moved from one spot to another - not because it needed to be, but because they needed to give the hobos something to do to earn their sandwich and hot coffee!

 

What happened to our self-pride (the good kind) that wants to feel good about working hard for the things in our life. And our graciousness in accepting it when someone gifts us unexpectedly and generously (but not in asking for it)?!

 

I like this post.

 

 

Let me repeat that I read of a couple sending bank deposit slips with their wedding invitations. One of the guests was writing to a "Miss Manners" -type person to ask what she thought. "Miss Manners" said it was acceptable.:001_huh:

[Sojourner]

Many (not all) people who have "destination weddings" are using it as crowd control. They already know that you won't make the trip for the wedding, and they were sort of hoping you wouldn't - not "you" in particular of course, but many guests.

 

I think brides who really don't like weddings and really don't want one sometimes choose destination weddings as a way to make Mom happy by inviting all her friends without having acutally host a party for them.

 

Fair point, except in my experience, the couple always has a separate reception/party afterward (sometimes in two areas if their families are separated far geographically) for those who couldn't attend the actual ceremony. Also, there are often hurt feelings if you are a part of the immediate family or asked to be part of the bridal party and say you just cannot manage the cost/time off to attend away.

Hopefully one benefit of the downturn in the economy is it will bring things more into perspective and under control in the future.

[Anne]

ETA:After posting I remembered that I do ask for money for one for my kids bdays and such. Well, I don't ask but if folks ask me what to buy him I suggest cash mostly. He's a special needs kids and toys and equipment for him are very expensive. He's mentally challenged so people never know what age to buy for him anyway. This thread makes me wonder. Do you think that I offend people when I ask for cash for him?

 

You know, I think the equation changes when someone asks. I would never be offended by suggestions that I asked for, whether the suggestions are items or cash.

 

Anne

[Heather in Neverland]

OK, I've got one for you all...

 

I have a friend who is getting married in June. We just received an invitation to a get-together to raise money for their HONEYMOON. No lie. It is not an engagement party. It is not a bridal shower. It is a honeymoon party. A party that we go to and give money for their honeymoon. Seriously.

[swellmomma]

I am always shocked when I see things like this. I knew one girl who put a button on her blog asking for money to buy a house. I have never seen a registry for kids birthdays, around her normally kids have a list of wants for xmas or birthdays that they tell people when specifically asked, but have not seen a registry. I think if we were directed to one for a birthday I would likely skip out on that party. As for money for weddings, we let people know for our wedding that cash insted of gifts was preferred. We had already been living together for 2 years and had 2 kids before we got married, and needed the cash for our expenses more than we needed another toaster kwim. I did not put that with the invites nor did we register, my bridesmaids and mother just let people know as they rsvp'd.

 

I am surprised at those who ask for the money to cover things like summer camps etc without doing anything to cover it themselves. There is lots of ways to lower the costs of activities by bartering services for tuition, that's how my kids do gymnastics(I clean the gynmastics club- 8hours of cleaning means 1 free semester of gymnastics for 1 child- I just do it s afew times per semester), and to pay for baseball I work bingos to cover the cost. Many camps offer similiar opportunities, to trade fundraising/volunteer time in exchange for lowered or free enrollement fees. I guess I don't see why others can't put in some effort to cover what they can not fork over monetarily on their own and not resort to asking for handouts.

[swellmomma]

Fair point, except in my experience, the couple always has a separate reception/party afterward (sometimes in two areas if their families are separated far geographically) for those who couldn't attend the actual ceremony. Also, there are often hurt feelings if you are a part of the immediate family or asked to be part of the bridal party and say you just cannot manage the cost/time off to attend away.

Hopefully one benefit of the downturn in the economy is it will bring things more into perspective and under control in the future.

 

 

This happened with my sister's wedding. They got married in mexico, I had JUST miscarried, and did not have formal custody of my older 2 kdis yet and my ex would not sign a letter allowing me to get their passports and take them to mexico, not to mention the costs involved. SO I had to be the only family member to miss my sister's wedding. They did have a huge reception when they got back I got to attend, but because I had not been in Mexico was told I was not part of her actual "wedding party" sitting at the head table where everyone else who made the trip sat. AND THEN for their first anniversary they had a Mexico "reunion" party and only invited those that had made the trip. There is nothing more hurtful than to be excluded from a family members wedding because you could not leave the country to participate.

 

My brother was planning a WDW wedding, now they have decided to either do mexico or jamaica, and while the custody issues etc are over, I doubt I will have the money to fund taking 4 kids to mexico or jamaica so once again we are the odd ones out. Though he also plans on a huge reception when they get back.

 

So both times had nothing to do with crowd control.

[AndyJoy]

When I was a teen, my best friend and I used to jokingly make up acronyms for charities like BAANC (buy Andrea a new car) or FMCE (fund my college education) whenever we heard about someone soliciting for something personal and unnecessary.

 

I don't, however, see anything wrong with asking grandparents to help fund an experience (piano lessons, camp, etc.) rather than buying more stuff for the kids. Stuff passes away quickly, but experiences build memories that last a lifetime. My parents are completely on board with this, as they know I have saved a lot of toys for kids already.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

AAAaaauuuuuuggggghhhhh! Camp Entitlement! I can't stand this stuff! I just want to say that I think it is both T.a.c.k.y! and morally wrong! I want to tell them that

1) I will not buy the cookies (popcorn, candles, et c) b/c I won't support this form of child labor (they wouldn't do it if their little girlies weren't making them a profit).

2) I won't buy the cookies b/c I think it's wrong to teach you that it's acceptable to practically panhandle to get people to pay for you to live a lifestyle you can't afford.

3) I will not buy your cookies b/c camp is NOT an entitlement.

4) I cannot afford to buy your cookies b/c I am saving my money and making sacrifices to send my daughter to camp b/c I dont believe it's anyone else's responsibilty to send her for me!

5) Instead of teaching my daughter to expect other people to pay her way, I would prefer to teach her that sacrifice and hard work are virtues.

 

Having said that, though, if a girl wanted to bake some cookies or make some lemonade and have a stand in her front yard, I'd support that.

 

Why, I wonder. Does that make me a hipocrite? I have very strong opinions about Girl Scout, et al. selling but proudly support home-grown entrepreneurial enterprises. All of a sudden I dont' make sense to myself. I am proud of a girl or boy who decides to get a job, mow some lawns, pet sit, et c. to earn some extra money or save toward something s/he wants but the other is just galling.

 

I wonder why.

 

On the birthday issue . . .

 

When friends ask what my girl wants for her birthday I tell the truth, "The gift of Lucy's presence at her party is really what she wants more than anything."

 

My mom is the only one who gets the actual requests for specific gifts. I'm not sure why we do that.

 

I kind of liked the way my neighbor did it. To be honest, I dont' usually ask what the kid wants. If I know the kid, I get what I think she'll like. If I don't, I try to get something I think most kids would like. My neighbor invited my daughter to a b-day party. I like them and wanted to get him something I thought he'd like but I don't know them as well as I should. I asked if he's been asking for anyting specific. Her answer was something like, "Oh, you know little boys . . . He likes superheroes, fast cars, and anything Star Wars." Well, w/o telling me, "he wants the Millennium Falcon Lego set" she was still able to let me know what he likes in general. I thought it was a workable answer.

[Guest Katia]

I also hate the sense of entitlement and find requests for money disgusting. However.....does the equation change if it is ministry/church related? What do you think?

 

I got a letter several years ago from the daughter of some people we knew when this daughter was like 11yo. She was now in college and wanted to go on a mission trip to China sponsored through the college. Would we please donate money so that she could participate in this ministry? They were told to send this form letter to every.single.person. they could think of, no matter how well they knew them. We hadn't seen or heard from these people in over 6 years. We sent no money and I shredded the letter in disgust.

 

Then, we got this letter from the same family, just different daughters. They had just won something (regionals?) in something called Talents for Christ (TfC.....I immediately thought of KfC,lol) and since they qualified to go to nationals (held in a different state) they were asking for travel money so that they could go and beat the socks off of other Christian kids competing in the same 'ministry'. When exactly did ministry become a competition? (that's for another thread I suspect)

 

Uggh! Personally, I don't see any difference in asking for money to go to China with college kids, going to a competition, or going to camp. It's still a trip that if you can't afford you shouldn't be going....no matter what you'll be doing when you get there.

 

Other people think this is 'donating to a good cause' simply because it is church or ministry related. And, while I agree that if these kids were in my church and our church as a whole decided to sponsor them.....or if my dh and I saw a need and decided on our own (read as: without any prompting from said kids) to give them money.....that is ENTIRELY different than someone sending you a letter begging for handouts.

 

It just seems to me that when it is church/ministry related that people think it is 'ok' to beg.

What think you?

[5kidsforME]

I also hate the sense of entitlement and find requests for money disgusting. However.....does the equation change if it is ministry/church related? What do you think?

 

I got a letter several years ago from the daughter of some people we knew when this daughter was like 11yo. She was now in college and wanted to go on a mission trip to China sponsored through the college. Would we please donate money so that she could participate in this ministry? They were told to send this form letter to every.single.person. they could think of, no matter how well they knew them. We hadn't seen or heard from these people in over 6 years. We sent no money and I shredded the letter in disgust.

 

Then, we got this letter from the same family, just different daughters. They had just won something (regionals?) in something called Talents for Christ (TfC.....I immediately thought of KfC,lol) and since they qualified to go to nationals (held in a different state) they were asking for travel money so that they could go and beat the socks off of other Christian kids competing in the same 'ministry'. When exactly did ministry become a competition? (that's for another thread I suspect)

 

Uggh! Personally, I don't see any difference in asking for money to go to China with college kids, going to a competition, or going to camp. It's still a trip that if you can't afford you shouldn't be going....no matter what you'll be doing when you get there.

 

Other people think this is 'donating to a good cause' simply because it is church or ministry related. And, while I agree that if these kids were in my church and our church as a whole decided to sponsor them.....or if my dh and I saw a need and decided on our own (read as: without any prompting from said kids) to give them money.....that is ENTIRELY different than someone sending you a letter begging for handouts.

 

It just seems to me that when it is church/ministry related that people think it is 'ok' to beg.

What think you?

 

My nephew and BIL went to Africa on a missions trip. They were asked/told by the church that they could pay for half of it themselves and they were supposed to raise the rest.

[Peek a Boo]

5) Instead of teaching my daughter to expect other people to pay her way, I would prefer to teach her that sacrifice and hard work are virtues.

 

Having said that, though, if a girl wanted to bake some cookies or make some lemonade and have a stand in her front yard, I'd support that.

 

Why, I wonder. Does that make me a hipocrite? I have very strong opinions about Girl Scout, et al. selling but proudly support home-grown entrepreneurial enterprises. All of a sudden I dont' make sense to myself. I am proud of a girl or boy who decides to get a job, mow some lawns, pet sit, et c. to earn some extra money or save toward something s/he wants but the other is just galling.

 

I wonder why.

 

I can't get on the "entitlement" bandwagon when people are being asked to give/ buy *willingly*.

 

It is precisely BECAUSE of the obvious reasoning above that I have let the kids participate in fundraisers for Scouts, 4-H, and now--yup-- CAMP.

 

Selling overpriced chocolate bars and popcorn? I wouldn't buy them, but others will, and they happen to like that they are giving AND getting. Go figger what people will spend money on: makeup. beauty products. belt buckles. sending kids to camp. I guess everyone has their own ideas of what is worthy of them spending their money on.

 

And what defines putting a kid to WORK? As the poster quoted above mentions, why do we insist on seeing a specific kind of work from someone? Did they put any effort into selling the chocolate door to door as opppsed to setting up a static lemonade stand? Was there no WORK involved in learning to approach someone and make your case known? Why do we think it is worth it to have someone "work" at a meaningless task when they could offer a product instead?

 

Lots of people are content to just donate money and pass on whatever is offered. And a LOT have the guts to say no thanks, but good luck.

 

I have found that a lot of people won't hire a kid to mow their lawn, walk their dogs, or do much of anything, thanks to our litigious society and current economy. Kid gets hurt on your property, you could be TOAST. A guy down the street wants to let our 4-H club USE his 7 acres, but he's torn about the possible lawsuits. Especially with kids.

 

Oldest wants to go to Philmont Scout Camp this summer. I told dh that there is NO WAY we can cover that as long as he's unemployed. Even if his deceased dad's house sells, that money needs to be for our basic expenses till he's gainfully employed. I was content to point out that since dh didn't get to attend Philmont till he was an adult leader, It wouldn't kill oldest to have to wait either.

 

HOWEVER! As someone who is very active in our local community, I did suggest that if ds wanted to put together a cover letter, resume [he needs one for 4-H anyway], and letters of reference, he might want to approach some local businesses to see if they would be interested in sponsoring him. They already know that he is an active community youth leader [they've talked to him at city events and council meetings], and they know the problems that a lot of kids encounter trying to earn money the traditional way. It has been my experience in listening to business owners that they are usually Too Happy to help give back to the community, especially when it involves leadership and character opportunities for local youth.

 

Is he willing to work for the money? ayup.

has he had any takers? nope.

 

On the Christian front, we are told to make our needs known. I am at peace with however it works: if he gets all his ducks lined up and approaches the businesses himself and gets turned down, then he will have learned an important lesson that he won't soon forget. If they decide to sponsor him, then I am content that he did a LOT of preparation and character training to get that sponsorship and that God opens doors for even "non-necessary" things.

 

As Christians, our brothers and sisters in Christ NEED the opportunity to give. It is a blessing to be able to help people, Christian or not. Whether it be as simple as having an extra teaspoon of vanilla to share w/ a neighbor, offering to double back and pick up a friend's kids for the Valentine's party, or picking up donations of food for the local food pantry, filling a person's physical and emotional needs runs the gamut of abilities. Our family has experienced the joy of giving over and over in the community, in different capacities of "neediness." I am very thankful that people have made their needs and wants KNOWN.

 

On that other end, I want my kids to understand that NO, we can't just ask for anything we want. If you are going to make a need or desire known, you must do so graciously and w/ the expectation that some people will NOT appreciate you making the request in the first place. As I mentioned in the "shoes indoors" thread, when you know there's a certain segment of the population [such as the respondents in this thread] that think what you are doing is rude, be prepared for a gracious conflict and employ peacemaking skills wherever you can. :D

 

I like communication.

 

I like finding out that I can give a person a gift that they actually ENJOY. Whether that be building up a camp/college/car fund or hunting down a specific piece to make their kitchen a homey place for THEM, I give because I want them to be happy, not so i can say "but I gave them such a great USEFUL gift!" Practicality is often in the mind of the gifter.......

 

i don't mind requests for donations. I don't mind letting people know that my kids are blessed w/ TONS of toys and books so if they feel led to bring a gift, then please consider cash, gift cards, or adding to their [X] collection. cash is a green gift in more than one way, as someone else mentioned. If the recipient actually likes and uses their present, it is less likely to end up in a landfill. I like consumable gifts myself ;)

 

I don't mind people taking the initiative to fund their activities from people willing to fund the activity for whatever personal reasons they want.

 

I DO mind the gvt taking my money by force and giving it to anyone who qualifies regardless what those people have done to EARN my money.

 

Asking vs begging

 

Begging has a lot of negative connotations, which is why we don't often use it when we are trying to justify a request. But there is likely some area or some time that we have each begged for something.

 

entitle:

2 : to furnish with proper grounds for seeking or claiming something <this ticket entitles the bearer to free admission>

 

Who gets to define proper grounds? In these cases, it's teh people who are being asked to part with their money: Why should I fund your project?

Grants. scholarships. coupons.

 

entitlement:

1 a: the state or condition of being entitled : right b: a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract

2: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group ; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program

3: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

 

I do see a difference between being entitled to seek something vs an entitlement attitude and begging.

Is it begging to offer something in exchange for money?

work? a product? personal satisfaction of the giver in giving? a better-prepared youth that will equip said youth to better serve the community?

 

 

Beg

synonyms beg , entreat , beseech , implore , supplicate , adjure , importune mean to ask urgently. beg suggests earnestness or insistence especially in asking for a favor <children begging to stay up late>. entreat implies an effort to persuade or to overcome resistance <entreated him to change his mind>. beseech implies great eagerness or anxiety <I beseech you to have mercy>. implore adds to beseech a suggestion of greater urgency or anguished appeal <implored her not to leave him>. supplicate suggests a posture of humility <with bowed heads they supplicated their Lord>. adjure implies advising as well as pleading and suggests the invoking of something sacred <in God's name I adjure you to cease>. importune suggests an annoying persistence in trying to break down resistance to a request <importuning viewers for contributions>.

 

will i allow my kids to beg [w/ earnestness and insistence] that people fund their projects or buy their products? NO. They must take no for an answer and leave the person w/ a smile for the day. Any request they make/ product they sell can NOT be mixed w/ an insistence that the world will end if their request is not met --quite the opposite.

 

will i allow the kids to present their request/product before someone? yes.

 

That being said, I won't let them approach someone who I already know is struggling financially, even if they see that same someone buy overpriced Girl Scout cookies from another homeschooler in the group. ;)

[lionfamily1999]

When my dd was invited to attend the NYSP camp in DC, one of their reccomendations was to send out appeals to friends and family to help cover the cost. It is a great program, it looks nice on transcripts, and it costs an arm and a leg. When dd was invited to Johns Hopkins, they sent the same ideas to raise funds.

 

The people that were ticked off by our 'audacity' were sent a sincere apology, everybody else got thank you cards, pictures and post cards.

[kalanamak]

 

Our culture has become so materialistic that there is no longer a clear distinction between wants and needs. For most people things like camps and sports are not "nice-ities" they are necessities. Everyone else is doing it, so should they. No matter what the cost.

 

 

 

I think this thought drove a wedge between hubby, his ex, and their kids. The kids didn't get everything their peers did, and they glowered and resented. It is not pretty.

[lionfamily1999]

DD and ds are both 'gifted' with ds leaning more towards the higher end of the spectrum. Dh and I cannot afford to send them to all of the camps and things they are invited too. The scholarships they're offered defer some of the costs, but once uniforms and transportation are figured in... it's not as much as it seems. Now, my family has NO PROBLEM saying we're holding the kids back/down, letting their potential go to waste, etc. Thankfully, they put THEIR money where their mouths are.

 

Oh, it must be so cold and lonely up there at the top glaring down at us bottom feeders.

 

I don't know why people are so scared to seek assistance, I don't know why people would rather go hungry than seek help. After all, we're such a giving society. We care so much about each other's needs. I don't know why people feel guilt when they have to sign up for gov. aid. It couldn't possibly be because they'd be called greedy. As long as it's government aid, it's okay. Then it's just tax dollars that come from random places. As long as they don't ask their family or friends for help..... Sheesh, that's just tacky!

 

As far as ASKING for cash instead of presents........ well, if they were asked what they wanted and they wanted cash, then isn't that just being honest? Should they hedge around and say.. paper that is worth a dollar amount?