unsinkable Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) Real 'Sybil' Admits Multiple Personalities Were Fake When Sybil first came out in 1973, not only did it shoot to the top of the best-seller lists — it manufactured a psychiatric phenomenon. The book was billed as the true story of a woman who suffered from multiple personality disorder. Within a few years of its publication, reported cases of multiple personality disorder — now known as dissociative identity disorder — leapt from fewer than 100 to thousands. But in a new book, Sybil Exposed, writer Debbie Nathan argues that most of the story is based on a lie. http://www.npr.org/2011/10/20/141514464/real-sybil-admits-multiple-personalities-were-fake Very interesting... Edited October 23, 2011 by unsinkable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I read that on the web and thought, "Crazy!" and then burst out laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Whoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 I read that on the web and thought, "Crazy!" and then burst out laughing. Yeah, it's like a part of me didn't want to believe it but another part of me thinks that maybe it's true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I was interested in this when I was a teenager. Back then, I was ambivalent about whether it was true. Over the years, that has turned into not believing in this phenomenon at all. So this was just another confirmation of the thoughts I had already formed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 It was the topic on Science Friday. At first I was like, eh, this is a bit dull, but then as it went on, the two experts started getting more and more snippy and I realized they loathed each other. One said all multiple personalities are fake and the other said they're real. It was pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Yeah, it's like a part of me didn't want to believe it but another part of me thinks that maybe it's true... I do wonder what we're going to think about this in say, 50 years. Will it be completely debunked or will we have learned that although Sybil was a liar, this really does still happen? It makes me think of all the doctors working now. Will they ALL change their minds about multiple personalities? Only some of them? Good grief. Court cases. Talk about battles of the "experts." Will they stop teaching it in medical schools? Only the good ones? Or the bad ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 I do wonder what we're going to think about this in say, 50 years. Will it be completely debunked or will we have learned that although Sybil was a liar, this really does still happen? It makes me think of all the doctors working now. Will they ALL change their minds about multiple personalities? Only some of them? Good grief. Court cases. Talk about battles of the "experts." Will they stop teaching it in medical schools? Only the good ones? Or the bad ones? Good questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 It is interesting, as if I had never seen that movie, I wouldn't have believed the disorder was real to begin with. Now I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Even if it is all true, everyone knows that it is an extremely rare case. Something could be so rare you could go your entire life without encountering it, and still be real. Now that this woman is dead, how can anyone know for sure how much she was faking? The patient's "confession" of fibbing was actually in the movie, wasn't it? At least, it was in the book. It's not "new news." Apparently it wasn't enough then to convince everyone that this was a hoax. To me, it's hard to accept that someone could be smart/charismatic/consistent enough to make all that stuff up and still looney enough to act it out in public. Clearly she had severe psychological issues. I mean, I'm pretty imaginitive, but I'd have to be off my nut to "play pretend" around adults. Anyhoo. Right or wrong, I refuse to stop blaming my gaffes and memory losses on my other personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 It is interesting, as if I had never seen that movie, I wouldn't have believed the disorder was real to begin with. Now I don't know. I was gonna say - it was a good movie, so who cares if the book is true? But then, I'm in the tax field . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Off to read the article, but just wanted to add that sometimes, denial of your condition is part of the condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Huh. Very interesting. I have a friend that is *very* attached to her doctor. She has completely cut off contact with her entire family, at her doc's urging, because she believes she was abused by her stepfather when we were teens. These memories were repressed and found through hypnosis and other therapies. I am suspicious, but would never say anything to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I was gonna say - it was a good movie, so who cares if the book is true? Yes, Sally Field was worth seeing regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Huh. Very interesting. I have a friend that is *very* attached to her doctor. She has completely cut off contact with her entire family, at her doc's urging, because she believes she was abused by her stepfather when we were teens. These memories were repressed and found through hypnosis and other therapies. I am suspicious, but would never say anything to her. I have a close family member who was going through this for a while (but not the parent-child incest part). It took a long time for her to realize that paying someone to tell her to hate her parents was doing nothing but sending her on the path toward bankruptcy. I recall one conversation with her where I pointed out that parents are human. She looked shocked, then said, "I thought you'd support me." Like I said, eventually she snapped out of it, thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillian Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Even if Sybil's case wasn't true, DID (it is now called Dissociative Identity Disorder not Multiple Personality Disorder) is a real phenomenon. Haven't read the article...off to do that now...but several of my professors state that DID is common especially among children/tweens from abusive homes but once they are free of the situation the disorder resolves with relatively minor therapeutic intervention (i.e. not years and years if it's caught early). ETA: hypnosis while it can be used for ill and malpractice is a legitimate therapeutic technique if done by a professional and not someone who took a weekend course. If a therapist is properly trained therapeutic hypnosis can be a very legitimate way to help process and deal with extreme psychological factors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Isn't there someone on this board who has this? I remember reading this book when I was a teen and also, When Rabbit Howls. I found it all very fascinating. Would love to read this new book. My library doesn't have it. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Isn't there someone on this board who has this? I remember reading this book when I was a teen and also, When Rabbit Howls. I found it all very fascinating. Would love to read this new book. My library doesn't have it. :glare: There are at least 2 posters who have discussed their diagnosis of DID here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Isn't there someone on this board who has this? Mosaicmind has been open about it. I think there was someone else, too, but I can't remember who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginevra Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Isn't there someone on this board who has this? I remember reading this book when I was a teen and also, When Rabbit Howls. I found it all very fascinating. Would love to read this new book. My library doesn't have it. :glare: Yes. Mosaicmind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 One high profile case being faked isn't enough to conclude that the entire disorder doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 One high profile case being faked isn't enough to conclude that the entire disorder doesn't exist. No, but the thing I got from listening to Science Friday's discussion is that there's a considerable controversy that is separate from this recent revelation. Some scientists say there's evidence that it does not exist. Others say there's evidence that it does. Each had specific studies to back up their side. I would say in a way it does matter because *if* the disorder is not real, as some scientists allege, then the massive cultural impact of the Sybil book and movie is part of what made people believe it did. But I have no horse in this fight. I have no idea if it's real or not. Just saying that it's pretty clear that there's differing expert opinions so there's not a clear "right" answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I've been fascinated with the multiple personality disorder for a long time. I even chose to study psychology because of that. I don't think I ever came up with my own conclusion. I always had some doubts, but mainly because it sounds so incredibly fantastical. On the other hand, I do believe that we know very little about the human mind and that the human mind and brain are incredibly powerful mechanisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 No, but the thing I got from listening to Science Friday's discussion is that there's a considerable controversy that is separate from this recent revelation. Some scientists say there's evidence that it does not exist. Others say there's evidence that it does. Each had specific studies to back up their side. I would say in a way it does matter because *if* the disorder is not real, as some scientists allege, then the massive cultural impact of the Sybil book and movie is part of what made people believe it did. But I have no horse in this fight. I have no idea if it's real or not. Just saying that it's pretty clear that there's differing expert opinions so there's not a clear "right" answer. It has always been controversial. However the bolded is a fascinating fact in itself. Akin to mass hysteria phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I did my intro to psych term paper on MPD (as it was called then). It was really fascinating research. I saw Sybil (the movie) while home from school sick once. I'm pretty sure I was in high school, but I might've been only a freshman. It was pretty disturbing. The scene of her at the piano..... I'm not sure I could watch it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I read a really disturbing article years and years ago (maybe in The Atlantic?) about how once a psychological condition has a name and an official diagnosis then it suddenly jumps in how often it's seen. The question is, which came first - the chicken or the egg. The article talked about multiple personalities, but the thing that made is so disturbing was that it also talked about an issue where people think their limbs are not a part of their body and need to be removed. And some of the people... remove them. Eek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 No, but the thing I got from listening to Science Friday's discussion is that there's a considerable controversy that is separate from this recent revelation. Some scientists say there's evidence that it does not exist. Others say there's evidence that it does. Each had specific studies to back up their side. I would say in a way it does matter because *if* the disorder is not real, as some scientists allege, then the massive cultural impact of the Sybil book and movie is part of what made people believe it did. But I have no horse in this fight. I have no idea if it's real or not. Just saying that it's pretty clear that there's differing expert opinions so there's not a clear "right" answer. But Sybil wasn't the first case study, was she? I believe the book and movie "The Three Faces of Eve" predates Sybil by quite a few years ( the movie is B&W). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I was interested in this when I was a teenager. Back then, I was ambivalent about whether it was true. Over the years, that has turned into not believing in this phenomenon at all. So this was just another confirmation of the thoughts I had already formed. I agree. I've always believed it to be fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Yeah, it's like a part of me didn't want to believe it but another part of me thinks that maybe it's true... Half of me believes it but the other half . . . oh, wait a minute . . . .:lol: Sorry, I must remind myself that this stuff is serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 This is kind of my issue with psychology/psychiatry in general. It's almost all completely subjective. You make a diagnosis, prescribe meds, etc. based simply on what the patient tells you. Just doesn't seem very scientific to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 This is kind of my issue with psychology/psychiatry in general. It's almost all completely subjective. You make a diagnosis, prescribe meds, etc. based simply on what the patient tells you. Just doesn't seem very scientific to me. To be fair, much of it is NOT subjective nor is it patient-reported. Things like flat affect, negative symptoms, word salad, etc. are observed by the clinician. Having said that, I am no fan of what I believe to be an overdiagnosis of this particular disorder in North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Wow, that's just scary and sad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'd be more inclined to believe the claim if Sybil wasn't deceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Yeah, it's like a part of me didn't want to believe it but another part of me thinks that maybe it's true... :lol::lol: I have met one patient in all these years who might have been legit, but I didn't know her long enough to tell. Every other patient I've had who happily proclaims this has used it to manipulate and control everyone (I mean dozens) of people. I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl. My favorite was a woman who had a couple of infant personalities and her previous home had spoon fed her during these episodes. My RN announced to her that we were an "adult facility" and if she became that infant, she would be shipped off. What a bunch of malarky, but it worked. Infant didn't raise a cry her whole stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Kalamanak, did you read about the guy in CA who is demanding an apology from a US Senator because he requested that his Disability case be reviewed because he is an adult who pretends he is a baby and wants to be fed and got another disability reciever to act as his 'mommy' and change his diapers, etc? It was in the news this week. Your post reminded me of it. The SS office reviewed it and so nothing wrong with him getting disability. Meanwhile, fellow sufferers of serious chronic illnesses like DVT and Sjogren's Syndrome are routinely denied for years before maybe getting a positive review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Sybil, Pluto, almost nothing we learned was true! I know there are more examples, but I am getting old and can't think of any right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I tend towards cynical in these types of things, but I have a good friend who's daughter "hears voices". I don't know her official DX, though it impacts her life fairly seriously. I do know that whatever her diagnosis, she has a very real problem. I believe it because I've seen one of her episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well. I saw the movie Sybil when I was about 14 and it disturbed and traumatized me. My mother was a schizophrenic (as Sybil's mother was, supposedly) and I was terrorized by the implication that I would grow up to be as disturbed as Sybil even though I was not abused. I spent my teenage years watching my own every move and thought, fearing that anything I might say or do, or especially if I got angry or felt sad, was a sign that I was going seriously crazy. I don't think this fear really lifted until I passed my mother's age at her first hospitalization (32) and had my first child, without ever having signs of schizophrenia or other serious mental illness, Thank God. If I had only known then that there was even a possibility that Sybil's story was not true, I would not have suffered so much. May God forgive the people who wrote this book and made this movie, because they did not know or care how they might be traumatizing the innocent, while they themselves tried to become rich & famous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The SS office reviewed it and so nothing wrong with him getting disability. Meanwhile, fellow sufferers of serious chronic illnesses like DVT and Sjogren's Syndrome are routinely denied for years before maybe getting a positive review. I didn't see it but how well I remember a woman with osteogenesis imperfecta with hundreds of broken bones, the blue sclera, the bent-over-double-like-an-ancient-farm-worker woman who got turned down twice. She died within a year because she couldn't breathe with her deformed rib cage. I wrote letter after letter and wished she could just park her tiny, crumpled body on someone's desk until she got somewhere. It comes down to lawyers. There is a whole business on "selling" yourself to disability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I tend towards cynical in these types of things, but I have a good friend who's daughter "hears voices". I don't know her official DX, though it impacts her life fairly seriously. I do know that whatever her diagnosis, she has a very real problem. I believe it because I've seen one of her episodes. Several other common psych disorders include hearing voices, such as schizophrenia and bipolar. I can remember reading controversy on DID in college ten years ago. It seems like it would be a difficult disorder to "prove" and one that someone with a personality disorder might fake for benefit for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Elizabeth Loftus, PhD., has done a lot of research in repressed memory. Along with another researching from Michigan, she found an original case upon which alot of "repressed" memories of s*xual abuse cases are based, was in reality a VERY UGLY chlid custody battle and the father/step-mother coached the child how to lie about her mother. The *step-mother* confirmed that in an interview with Elizabeth Loftus. (EL didn't tell sm she was doing research on the findings.) she made some enemies in academia for publishing something so contray to established protocol. Edited October 24, 2011 by gardenmom5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Off to read the article, but just wanted to add that sometimes, denial of your condition is part of the condition. What if one of her personalities is a liar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Little Nyssa, I am so sorry to hear about how this book affected you.:grouphug::grouphug: I am sure that both DID or MP and repressed memories have very negatively affected a lot of people. Whether it is criminals using these methods to try to place blame elsewhere or vulnerable people who are very suggestible, it makes a lot of victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 My friend's mother has it. It has been a very long road and difficult on everyone. From what I have read, it has almost always involved childhood Satanic ritual abuse and childhood sexual abuse. My friend's mother said she was able to remember the sexual abuse but that there was no Satanic ritual abuse. Then later those suppressed memories did come up. She had a horrible childhood and was quite neglected and abused by foster families in the 40s and 50s. Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 That crossed my mind too. "I'd ask him if he was a green tree frog." (Gratuitous reference to The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enigma_of_Kaspar_Hauser ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 From what I have read, it has almost always involved childhood Satanic ritual abuse and childhood sexual abuse. They general consensus is that widespread ritual abuse doesn't exist, so I don't know how anyone could get a statistic like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 They general consensus is that widespread ritual abuse doesn't exist, so I don't know how anyone could get a statistic like that. And I find it very interesting that there is a certain stereotype of woman who has this "memory". I really thought nothing of it until I sat at a table at a health food bar and listened to two women talk. They both fit the stereotype (off the top of my head 40s-50, thin, neat, well dressed and not uneducated). They had never met before, except on line. One was the "professional". She was both a counselor, a Satanic ritual abuse survivor, and a lay preacher, and had out her lap top taking this woman's information while they sat. They used the term "Satanic ritual abuse" so much, I was expecting them to start calling it SRA. The woman recounted vivid and horrendous details, all without a shred of emotion, and the other woman clicked it into her computer like she was entering the VIN at the DMV. She set up a schedule of counseling sessions, laid hands on the lady, prayed, and then clicked off in her perfect pumps. I was so gobsmacked I started reading about it, including a case I recall from college where a pair of sisters accused their father of doing this. He was devastated, and since he was assistant sheriff or something like that, under intense scrutiny. His whole rural property was excavated for a shred of evidence (why is evidence always in shreds?) to fit their story. None was found. And I especially encourage those too young to remember the Frontline story about the daycare center in N Carolina to look for it. I believe it was called the Innocence Lost Trilogy. I am reminded of the Charles Lamb quote about how credulity is a man's weakness, but a child's strength. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well, the statistic comes from those who have MPD in their accounts. I am just reporting what I have read. I am by no means an expert on the subject. Dawn They general consensus is that widespread ritual abuse doesn't exist, so I don't know how anyone could get a statistic like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well, the statistic comes from those who have MPD in their accounts. I am just reporting what I have read. I am by no means an expert on the subject. Dawn Do you have a reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdomandtreasures Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 This thread is over a decade old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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