sensitive content

[EthiopianFood]

Final update: We are now in action mode, so I feel like I shouldn't comment anymore on this thread. I GREATLY APPRECIATE all your support and wisdom. I posted soon after I found out, and I am thinking much more clearly than I was at that time. It is amazing what shock can do to a person's brain. Please, please wish me luck as we proceed in a nightmare of a situation. I have never dealt with something so.... I don't know the word. I can barely sleep. Hopefully this will turn out to be disgusting family gossip and nothing else. :(

Edited June 29, 2010 by RaeAnne

[mommytobees]

Let me ask you this:

 

What are you going to feel if you find out in 5-10 years that during this "thought process" this child was being s*x**lly m*l*sted?

 

I'm not looking for an answer, I'm challenging your thought process.

 

Furthermore, the primary caregiver in this situation might be criminally liable if it is determined that she knew about "it".

 

Now, "it" may or may not be happening.

 

As for what I would feel obligated to do?

 

I would call the police and ask to speak with a detective. I would ask point blank what legal steps could or should be taken. If anything I already knew could be substantiated and/or was more than hearsay.

 

Also, are you a mandatory reporter? I don't know what you "do" other than homeschool.

 

HTH,

Kris

[Pamela H in Texas]

I agree with Kris. I have no idea what the law is regarding this or whether this behavior is indicative of the propensity for other behavior. I would not hesitate to contact someone to inquire though because a child's life is involved.

 

As for the consequences of this course? The behavior causes the result, not the telling of the behavior. Additionally, there are things out there to help people in the situation the primary and child may be faced with. All sorts of people live on disability income alone. It's not ideal, but that hard life is better than the possible alternative hard life! Also, it is perfectly fine, IMO, for you to set boundaries for yourself and your family. If only the child is welcome, then you need to stick with that. The primary will have to weigh what options are available differently, but that is not your concern. She WILL have options though they may not be the best.

 

Hope this helps.

[Peela]

Gosh, that would so hard.

I think I would ask the police what they thought- telling them what you have said here. And go from there. That is what I wodl feel obligated to do under the circumstances.

But man, that's a hard call to make.

[Laura in VA]

I would call the police and tell them your concerns.

 

Too many red flags for me to ignore it. You mentioned that the same thing occurred 5 years ago, which means there is still a problem. The child is at risk, in my opinion.

[NanceXToo]

I would report it. No hesitation. I couldn't live with myself if I found out a child was being abused while I pondered the issue.

[Mynyel]

Let me ask you this:

 

What are you going to feel if you find out in 5-10 years that during this "thought process" this child was being s*x**lly m*l*sted?

 

I'm not looking for an answer, I'm challenging your thought process.

 

Furthermore, the primary caregiver in this situation might be criminally liable if it is determined that she knew about "it".

 

Now, "it" may or may not be happening.

 

As for what I would feel obligated to do?

 

I would call the police and ask to speak with a detective. I would ask point blank what legal steps could or should be taken. If anything I already knew could be substantiated and/or was more than hearsay.

 

Also, are you a mandatory reporter? I don't know what you "do" other than homeschool.

 

HTH,

Kris

 

 

:iagree:

 

One thing to think about as well.

 

Since you know about "it" and perhaps do nothing would that also put you in jeopardy of guilt through omission?

 

I don't know legalities but one could stretch and say that any party who knows but doesn't do anything is guilty as well.

 

Not saying it is the case...just pointing out what may happen.

 

ETA:

 

I would report it. There may be consequences for the action however, this person needs help and isn't going to get it with people "sitting on their hands" (not meaning to sound harsh) so to speak. They need to take their lumps. It will be better for everyone in the long run.

[calandalsmom]

this is a wretched crime. please report it.

[Care]

I'm assuming here that you're asking because the photographs are heavily inappropriate, and not just questionable (e.g. criminal content versus just baby-in-bathtub). If that is the case, absolutely report it. Sure, the finances stink for the people involved, but if these pictures are what I'm assuming you mean, the potential downside for this child is far worse. Also, as Pamela said, the *action* causes the consequence, not the telling of the action. Call the local PD, ask their opinion, and proceed from there.

 

If we're talking some questionable photos... give some thought to whether or not these parents ought to lose their kids over these photos. If the answer is yes, then see above. :001_smile:

[SailorMom]

If the photos are what we are all thinking they are - this is a disease/disorder/illness - whatever - that gets steadily worse over time. It can easily advance from pictures to more, and anyone nearby is at risk. There is no justifiable reason to have those sorts of pictures...

Please report this.....

[springmama]

Loss of income and disability should not come into play here. If there is a sick individual in the home, the child is in danger. No other circumstances matter at this point. Save the child. Period. Do whatever you need to do to keep that little one safe.

[KnitWit]

Deleted...concerned about words used...will pm.

[mcconnellboys]

Report. NOW.

[Jen500]

If someone found downloaded "inappropriate child photographs" in an adult family member's office space, and there was a child living in the home of the same age as the ones in the pictures, what would you feel you would be obligated to do?

 

 

 

This is more than just a matter of protecting the child in the house. What about the children in the photos? Not reporting this would be supporting the child p*$n industry.

[jillian]

I am a mandatory reporter but even if I wasn't I would make a call to CPS/DSHS without a second thought and perhaps the authorities about what was found on the computer. No way in f-ing he-l-l would I let that go

 

Eta: I haven't read any other responses

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Report NOW. Should have been reported years ago.

 

Other people's income/ability to make income is NOT your concern. The child at risk IS. In some states (like mine) EVERYONE is a mandated reporter. You may be liable for lawsuits if you do NOT report.

 

Please............report it now!

[Denisemomof4]

it's your duty and responsibility to report it to ensure that child's safety. That child needs to be removed from the home.

 

I'd ask to have the child come live with me, that they'd sign papers giving me guardianship. If they weren't willing to do this, I'd immediately report. DON'T mess around with this. Our PASTOR ignored me and another person's concerns and a child in our church was harmed because of it. The parents of said child didn't want to put the child on the witness stand, so the jjerk got off doing NO time. He is registered, but going on to lead a happy life. It makes me SICK.

[elfgivas]

I am a mandatory reporter but even if I wasn't I would make a call to CPS/DSHS without a second thought and perhaps the authorities about what was found on the computer. No way in f-ing he-l-l would I let that go

 

sometimes there are no good choices left. reporting is the "least bad" choice.

 

good luck - i'm afraid you'll need it.

ann

[kathkath]

Hi there,

I just want to encourage you. You are in a tough place but I think you know what the right thing to do is.

 

However, should you call, please tell no one you did, including this board. No one, in order to protect yourself. I would not call the pd, I would call child services, or whoever takes abuse calls. Child protective services will keep it confidential and do what they need to to get to the bottom of it. Once you call it will be out of your hands. Anything you say to anyone else, even if you are 100% sure it is said in confidence, may come back to haunt you. So just tell the 1 person you need to tell, and know you've done your job.

 

I'll be thinking about you.

[gpsings]

As an adult child of this type of situation, I can tell you, I felt deeply abandoned and unloved by the many adults who 'had a feeling' or knew 'something wasn't right' and the many adults who knew that my father had a secret life, and didn't say anything for whatever reason. I can't tell you the destruction caused in my life because of it.

 

Do what's right according to your conscience, please.

[KnitWit]

What was found is a CRIME. Whether CPS is called or not, the appropriate authorities to deal with the CRIME need to be notified. I see TWO issues here.

 

Just my .02

[KidsHappen]

I am the last person that would be likely to call CPS in any circumstance. However, even I would be calling in this situation. The pictures themselves are a crime even if there is nothing else going on. I am sorry you are having to deal with a rough situation. I know it is hard but you really need to call CPS.

[sassenach]

I would report it. No question, no hesitation.

[Lolosoli]

No second thoughts...I'd report it! Those photos are of innocent children.

 

Somebody has to stand up!

[Terabith]

Agree with the reporting it, assuming that these are the kinds of pictures we are thinking of, in terms of questionable. Questionable can cover numerous situations, however, so if it's something like baby in bath, or even unclothed child doing something, if it seems innocent (which does NOT seem to be the case at all, but just making clear my thought process), then I probably wouldn't........ But it doesn't sound like this is at all innocient.

 

What I mean is, I nanny for a family that lives out in the middle of nowhere, and they have a little girl the same age as my youngest. Last summer, the three girls (4, 4, and 5.5) were playing. There was a backyard wading pool, my kids didn't have swim suits, and they asked if they could go dipping. I knew parents and so said yes. They got out and were running around and got out watercolor paint. They spent a good hour painting themselves ALL (and I do mean ALL) over with the watercolor paint. It was absolutely friggin adorable, and totally innocent. I pondered taking pictures, bc I wished the parents could see, but I knew that while innocent, it could be considered "questionable."

 

But, I don't think this sounds like that kind of situation. If it's what we are thinking of, it needs to be reported, both to police and to CPS.

[Daisy]

It wouldn't matter how close these individuals were to my immediate family, I would report it.

 

The potential consequences for not reporting it are simply too costly.

[Terabith]

Honestly, the police are the ones who are probably the more appropriate contacts at this point........

[Starr]

You certainly do not have an obligation to keep it a secret! Pay attention to above posters.

[Pink Fairy]

What do you think will happen if you lay out these three options to the primary? It sounds like you think she will agree to one of them, is that correct? What is the likelihood that she may tell you it's none of your business, and even if the police investigate she would lie about the existance of the photos?

 

Just looking for more info.

[dansamy]

The pictures are illegal. They do not, in and of themselves, constitute abuse of the child presently in the home. However, possession of them by the adult is illegal. That needs to be reported to the police. You have one actual crime here (possession) and one potential crime (child abuse).

[KnitWit]

If it is what it *appears* to be via the OP...that kind of thing is NEVER an isolated case. N.E.V.E.R. It should not be up for discussion with anyone really. The primary already had their chance and passed on it. Too bad.

[KnitWit]

The pictures are illegal. They do not, in and of themselves, constitute abuse of the child presently in the home. However, possession of them by the adult is illegal. That needs to be reported to the police. You have one actual crime here (possession) and one potential crime (child abuse).

 

Yes.

[susancollins]

I would report them tonight is possible if not tommorrow. The mental, physical, and emotional harm that can be caused to this child or any other children by this person is life changing. My mother was m*le*ted when she was a little girl and she is still dealing with emotional and mental challenges on a daily basis. I will pray for you and your family, but you must report them.

[mcconnellboys]

How does CPS know that no abuse is occurring? I would think the presence of such material in the home would put them on high alert that inappropriate behavior with this child might also be occurring.....

[justasque]

From what I understand from your update, CPS feels their hands are tied on the potential abuse issue. Nonetheless, there is also a crime here. The police are your next step. You must take this step, and push a little if you have to.

 

An intervention is tempting, but I'm not sure it's wise, in terms of your own safety. I'd ask for police advice. If losing custody, even temporarily, is in the cards due to the investigation, you can step in then and offer to take the child, without anyone knowing you're the source of the complaint.

[Caraway]

I would not do an intervention. I would call the police immediately.

[EmilyK]

I would call the police or FBI, since possession of these images is itself a crime (I assume we are talking about the US; apologies if we aren't).

 

I would also call child services.

[Lostinabook]

Update: I called the CPS screener. They don't get involved unless the child is being shown the pictures. Essentially, they can't prosecute for abuse that hasn't yet occurred.

 

Maybe CPS won't get involved for possession, but the FBI will.

[LibraryLover]

Wait one dang minute. The existence of the photos is a crime. This is a police matter.

 

Wait. I see dansamy said this already.

[RanchGirl]

I would call the police and/or FBI regarding the pictures. I would not allow the child to go back to that home if I could do anything to stop it. Hopefully you can force the issue since she is with you now, by just keeping her there.

 

Also if possible make sure you have evidence of the crimes (photos or a witness), so that you have proof if there is a family hubbub and the mother chooses the pervert's side and claims you are making this up.

[Sara R]

The pictures are illegal. They do not, in and of themselves, constitute abuse of the child presently in the home. However, possession of them by the adult is illegal. That needs to be reported to the police. You have one actual crime here (possession) and one potential crime (child abuse).

 

Yes. CPS's only power is to remove children from the home. They don't prosecute crimes. The police does. Report it to the proper people.

[Corraleno]

The pictures are illegal. They do not, in and of themselves, constitute abuse of the child presently in the home. However, possession of them by the adult is illegal. That needs to be reported to the police. You have one actual crime here (possession) and one potential crime (child abuse).

Wasn't the original photo destroyed, though?

 

I would call the police FIRST, before you say anything to the family, and explain to the police that his guy has been caught twice with child p*rn, but you believe the photos may have been destroyed or deleted. They could seize his computer to look for additional photos, or they could even set up a sting first and then arrest him if he takes the bait. Either way I would not tip off the family before you call the police, because if the pedophile does have any photos stashed away somewhere, he will have a chance to get rid of them. Then the whole thing just looks like a dysfunctional family squabble, and the police may actually be less likely to get involved if there is another incident.

 

Jackie

Edited June 28, 2010 by Corraleno

[EthiopianFood]

What do you think will happen if you lay out these three options to the primary? It sounds like you think she will agree to one of them, is that correct? What is the likelihood that she may tell you it's none of your business, and even if the police investigate she would lie about the existance of the photos?

 

Just looking for more info.

 

I think she would be too embarrassed for the police to get involved to not choose something. This is based on knowing her, and what motivates her.

 

Thank you everyone for your opinions. It seems like a clear majority believe it is more important to try to get him prosecuted than to simply help the child. I appreciate your perspective.

[Laura in VA]

I think she would be too embarrassed for the police to get involved to not choose something. This is based on knowing her, and what motivates her.

 

Thank you everyone for your opinions. It seems like a clear majority believe it is more important to try to get him prosecuted than to simply help the child. I appreciate your perspective.

 

I believe the clear majority believe it *is* helping the child (and perhaps many other children), by alerting the authorities. Allowing the child to be in a home where this type of behavior is occurring, is most definitely not "helping".

[Pamela H in Texas]

And though the evidence was "destroyed," they were likely gotten through a computer. Very few criminals know how to TRULY clean a drive, but the FBI will know.

 

There are many children who could be helped by this becoming a police matter:

 

1) IF the child is subject to abuse now or will be in the future by this man

2) The children from the photos

3) The children of other people viewing these photos who may now or later be abused by their fathers, stepfathers, etc.

 

It is short-sighted and turning a blind eye to A LOT of child abuse to NOT turn this person in.

 

There is a good chance that this man will NOT be prosecuted, but that the information gleaned from a criminal investigation could help many many children directly and indirectly.

[KnitWit]

Even if a computer has been cleaned, the stuff is sitting on a server...*somewhere*. It can be found.

[lionfamily1999]

If someone found downloaded "inappropriate child photographs" in an adult family member's office space,

I would report this immediately. Child pornography is illegal for a reason. Everything else aside, I would report the pictures.

[Impish]

Loss of income and disability should not come into play here. If there is a sick individual in the home, the child is in danger. No other circumstances matter at this point. Save the child. Period. Do whatever you need to do to keep that little one safe.

:iagree: A crime is being committed. By reporting this, you may enable the police to catch the scuzz that is actually taking the pictures, and save a child, or children. Its not just about the child you know, who may or may not be being abused at this point (I'd think its highly likely though), but also about those poor babies that are in the photos.

 

Call the police. Its not so much punishing the creepy crawler that has the pics now, although I believe that to be appropriate, its about all the children being harmed by the child p**n industry. You have the chance to help one. Call now.

[melissel]

Raeann, I would be very worried that if I start a family fight before I take this child out of town, I would come back to find myself in the midst of kidnapping charges. Ridiculous, yes, but desperate people do desperate things, especially if they want to take the focus off themselves.

 

I agree with the others. The police/FBI must be called. I also don't know if I would take her anywhere but to your own house at this point. I also agree with the PP who said that you need to be careful that this doesn't start to look like an ugly family squabble that the authorities want to stay out of--the police/FBI have to be able to get their hands on the proof quickly so the correct action can be taken for this little girl who is in danger, and for all the other children who are indirectly involved.

 

I'm sorry you're in this situation. It can't end well for anyone except the little girl, who needs to be free of this criminal as soon as possible. You have the power to help her, as well as other children in danger from this man. Please use it to help them all.

[MariannNOVA]

I believe the clear majority believe it *is* helping the child (and perhaps many other children), by alerting the authorities. Allowing the child to be in a home where this type of behavior is occurring, is most definitely not "helping".

 

I agree.