Seminary question

[DawnM]

If you are a Christian (any sort), would you want your pastor to have attended seminary or some sort of post college training in the Bible and theology?

I have never been to a church that had a pastor who did not attend seminary.   

A friend has started going to a new church.   They love it.  I don't think it is my type of church, but I looked at the website and even watched the lead pastor's video with his wife.   They seem like a lovely couple, three young children, etc....but he never attended seminary or any training.  He went to college, became a teacher for several years in a small private Christian school.   Then he just "felt the call" and started working in his church and started preaching.

Maybe I live under a rock and this is a new trend?   

Thoughts?

[ScoutTN]

Seminary, and theological exams, both oral and written, are required for pastors in my denomination. Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) 

Edited August 27 by ScoutTN

[Tenaj]

I do think this is a new trend.  I'm not sure how I feel about it.  

On the one hand, I homeschool and I'm not an expert in all subjects so I get the idea that higher education isn't all it's cracked up to be.  

On the other hand, preaching is a high calling.  A huge responsibility.  I think I'd like to see at least a on-the-job training program of some kind, or mentoring period.

[marbel]

I wouldn't attend a church/denomination that had a pastor who had not gone to seminary. "Feeling the call" is not enough for me. 

[maize]

My church has lay clergy, no professionals. I've never had a congregational leader who had attended seminary. Leadership rotates every few years, and we don't have pastoral sermons--members of the congregation are assigned to prepare and share thoughts on assigned topics on a rotating basis. Congregations are overseen by higher levels of organization and leadership within the denomination.

[TheReader]

It isn't new, it just varies (widely) by denomination. 

I do strongly prefer my pastor to have seminary or other training/teaching in understanding the Bible, not just interpreting things on his own and giving his own spin on it. 

[Katy]

A lot of non-denominational churches and Baptist churches don’t require seminary or any education at all. I attended churches like this for years. I won’t do it anymore. They are problematic because they tend to create a cult of personality around one charismatic leader, often with narcissistic tendencies. The church grows, it becomes more and more about money. Even if the leader is amazing and actually makes an attempt to follow God and collects no salary because he makes enough money from writing books, there’s still structural problems. The church grows, they need more pastors. There’s really no education or structural oversight so there will be problems. It will likely lead to a church split or the whole thing falling apart when the charismatic leader leaves. 

[lauraw4321]

It’s not a new trend unless you are looking at it from a historical perspective. 

[lauraw4321]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

A lot of non-denominational churches and Baptist churches don’t require seminary or any education at all. I attended churches like this for years. I won’t do it anymore. They are problematic because they tend to create a cult of personality around one charismatic leader, often with narcissistic tendencies. The church grows, it becomes more and more about money. Even if the leader is amazing and actually makes an attempt to follow God and collects no salary because he makes enough money from writing books, there’s still structural problems. The church grows, they need more pastors. There’s really no education or structural oversight so there will be problems. It will likely lead to a church split or the whole thing falling apart when the charismatic leader leaves. 

Yup, I echo and confirm everything Katy says here. 

[Lecka]

This is nothing new.  It is different in different denominations.

 

Separately I had a wonderful lay minister in a small town, in a denomination that requires seminary…. We did not get an ordained minister while I was there because I think we were too small.  
 

 

At this time in my life, having an ordained/attended seminary minister is something I care about and value, but I have changed denominations.  To me I think it’s a positive, but I don’t think it’s strange not to have it.  
 

 

There is a related issue too, of what seminary did someone attend.  They can really be very different, and especially when they are not accredited.  And some people are not even “looking for” what is offered by an accredited seminary (or a seminary that’s part of an accredited school, maybe).  Some seminaries can be — night classes run by a senior pastor, and it’s called seminary and they get a certificate.  This is pretty different than going to an accredited college with a seminary.  But I don’t think it’s in the Bible anywhere “you have to go to an accredited seminary.”  

[Ethel Mertz]

My denomination (Episcopal) requires seminary. (Full disclosure: I’m an Episcopal priest)

[Pawz4me]

It's far from new. I'm old and none of the Baptist preachers from my childhood had a seminary education. Most had no education beyond high school. "Having a calling" was all that mattered. @Katysummed up the problems with that. Not that those same problems can't happen with someone who is highly educated, but it seems to me they're less likely.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

If you are a Christian (any sort), would you want your pastor to have attended seminary or some sort of post college training in the Bible and theology?

I have never been to a church that had a pastor who did not attend seminary.   

A friend has started going to a new church.   They love it.  I don't think it is my type of church, but I looked at the website and even watched the lead pastor's video with his wife.   They seem like a lovely couple, three young children, etc....but he never attended seminary or any training.  He went to college, became a teacher for several years in a small private Christian school.   Then he just "felt the call" and started working in his church and started preaching.

Maybe I live under a rock and this is a new trend?   

Thoughts?

Looking at the pattern of Christians from the first century,  they were uneducated and ordinary men.   
 

Editing to add, that humans tend to fall into following one man and that is problematic.  

Edited August 27 by Scarlett

[DawnM]

54 minutes ago, Katy said:

A lot of non-denominational churches and Baptist churches don’t require seminary or any education at all. I attended churches like this for years. I won’t do it anymore. They are problematic because they tend to create a cult of personality around one charismatic leader, often with narcissistic tendencies. The church grows, it becomes more and more about money. Even if the leader is amazing and actually makes an attempt to follow God and collects no salary because he makes enough money from writing books, there’s still structural problems. The church grows, they need more pastors. There’s really no education or structural oversight so there will be problems. It will likely lead to a church split or the whole thing falling apart when the charismatic leader leaves. 

Oh my goodness, this just gave me JP Miller chills as it describes him!~   Not the writing a book thing (I don't think he is capable of writing anything!) but the rest.   

[DawnM]

36 minutes ago, Ethel Mertz said:

My denomination (Episcopal) requires seminary. (Full disclosure: I’m an Episcopal priest)

That's awesome.

I grew up in a denomination called Missionary.   It is a small denomination that is similar to Free Methodist or Nazarene in doctrine.   We had women pastors and elders.   I went to another denomination for several years that was a patriarchal type structure and I will never go back to that again!   I will only attend churches that allow women to be ordained.

[DawnM]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Looking at the pattern of Christians from the first century,  they were uneducated and ordinary men.   

There were no seminaries back then, let alone a New Testament to study.   I guess I just see that as different.   

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, DawnM said:

There were no seminaries back then, let alone a New Testament to study.   I guess I just see that as different.   

There were scrolls to study and there was specific instructions for all to listen to the reading of the law.  It is different of course now that we have the compiled Holy Scriptures. 

[Jaybee]

Seminary, or at least a solid four-year Bible college degree. I went to seminary, and learned so much there. It deeply enriched my understanding of the Bible, church history, denominational history, solid principles of hermeneutics, ethical issues, and more. It taught me how to study and research with solid reputable tools. I'm not crazy about the personality cult churches. 

[wintermom]

My current faith requires seminary. It is rigorous, with lots of time for discernment, personal reflection, practical leadership opportunities and support along the journey. It tends to lead to a more uniform message with foundations that are accessable for church members. Leaders rotated relatively frequently, so the focus is on the message rather than the messanger.

[forty-two]

My denomination requires a four year M.Div. program.  My dh is a pastor, and he thinks one of the strengths of the program is requiring learning biblical Greek and Hebrew, so that all the subsequent biblical studies classes use the original language, instead of translations (the only translations allowed in class were their own).  In his experience, lots of problems come when people build a teaching on a translation that doesn't reflect the text in the original language.

[prairiewindmomma]

Having grown up in a church with a seminary/divinity school model, then spending another 20+ years in a church with lay pastors….there are some very real and stark differences between the two….particularly in ethics around pastoral care. 

[TexasProud]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

A lot of non-denominational churches and Baptist churches don’t require seminary or any education at all.

Every single Baptist church I have attended has required all ministers to have a seminary degree (which means you also have a bachelors).  All Baptist churches I have attended have required the head pastor to have a PHD. 

Edited August 27 by TexasProud

[Carol in Cal.]

23 minutes ago, forty-two said:

My denomination requires a four year M.Div. program.  My dh is a pastor, and he thinks one of the strengths of the program is requiring learning biblical Greek and Hebrew, so that all the subsequent biblical studies classes use the original language, instead of translations (the only translations allowed in class were their own).  In his experience, lots of problems come when people build a teaching on a translation that doesn't reflect the text in the original language.

+1

[lauraw4321]

15 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Every single Baptist church I have attended has required all ministers to have a seminary degree (which means you also have a bachelors).  All Baptist churches I have attended have required the head pastor to have a PHD. 

That's just luck.

 

https://hds.harvard.edu/academics/ministry-studies/denominational-instruction/ordination-requirements/baptist-ordination#:~:text=As Protestants%2C Baptists have historically,and the candidate's saving faith.

[Lecka]

17 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Every single Baptist church I have attended has required all ministers to have a seminary degree (which means you also have a bachelors).  All Baptist churches I have attended have required the head pastor to have a PHD. 

It has been hit or miss, at Baptist churches I have attended.  Ime the larger churches, in cities, part of a major denomination (aka Southern Baptist or American Baptist) do all have a pastor who has been to seminary.  

 

But there’s tons of other Baptist churches that do not fit that criteria.  
 

I think the same about non-denominational, there are some where the leadership have a mainstream divinity or seminary degree, and I do think they tend to be the larger ones in cities,  as well.  Just as a general thing.  
 

But I think it’s very individual for non-denominational churches, too.

 

I’m sure this is regional, but most of the non-denominational churches I am familiar with are basically what I would consider to be an “independent” Baptist church, as far as doctrine and church services.  
 

But “Independent Baptist” has its own meaning, so an “independent” Baptist church needs a different name.  
 

But I am sure that is regional.  
 

 

 

[Lecka]

23 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Every single Baptist church I have attended has required all ministers to have a seminary degree (which means you also have a bachelors).  All Baptist churches I have attended have required the head pastor to have a PHD. 

Part of this is, how much does someone have to earn to pay back a student loan for a seminary degree including a PhD?

 

Just realistically, how can a smaller church in a less economically booming area, manage this?  
 

It’s not realistic.  
 

Yes, there are exceptions, where someone got a scholarship or a home church managed to take donations… but to say “every” place can afford to do this, I don’t think is realistic.  
 

I was a member of a church that did take donations for a young man who wanted to go into ministry, and maybe in another time or place he would have done it, but he was looking at major student loans even with many generous gifts from our congregation…. And he went in a different direction where he would be able to do meaningful volunteer work while getting a degree that would be more financially reasonable for his situation.  
 

However I don’t know a “lot” about how they works, and maybe there are low-cost options I don’t know about.  

[Lecka]

36 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Every single Baptist church I have attended has required all ministers to have a seminary degree (which means you also have a bachelors).  All Baptist churches I have attended have required the head pastor to have a PHD. 

And still on this topic…. 

 

Okay, the lay minister I had (in a denomination that requires seminary) very openly preached sermons that she either got or got and adapted slightly from websites that would provide sermon ideas or essays, for people to use.  I liked her, I thought she did a good job.  We were lucky to have her.  
 

Okay, would this be what a professional person would choose, when they had another option?  
 

I mean, she basically didn’t write her own sermons, and she also had a separate full-time job, so is it realistic for her to write a sermon from scratch every week?  
 

She did go through a lay ministry program and she was in close contact with an ordained minister in a town that… was not close enough for me to drive there for church.  
 

Anyway — I think this would explain a lot.  
 

Our sister church in a neighboring town (choir sang at both and I drove there to sing, after my service ended) held fundraisers to pay for their heating oil.  That is where their money went, really mainly to just keep the doors open and the building in some kind of repair.  A wonderful church and church body, but in an area with low wages.  

[fairfarmhand]

Growing up Independent Baptist...I knew of very few churches that had pastors with even college degrees. The calling was all that mattered. In fact, my own Dad is a pastor without the degree or college at all. There are pros and cons. 

The small church thing is a big deal. Tiny churches can barely afford to pay a pastor anything. Some struggle to keep the lights on. So having ministers who don't have training, it is kind of what happens. And I love those tiny churches. I really think there is great benefit, especially for young pastors to serve in a place that doesn't have a big following. That is simple and basic. 

However, lacking training does have its downsides. I've seen that too. 

[bolt.]

I think both theological and skills training at the Seminary level are essential to being a capable primary pastor of a healthy church. In some cases a Bible College can provide similar levels of capability, perhaps for smaller churches or pastoral teams.

It's not that untrained gifted people can't be successful or helpful -- in some cases they can be, especially if they are generally intelligent, curious, and capable of self-educating. It's just that things can get complicated in ministry, and untrained people are more likely to go off the rails at least some of the time.

In a way, it's a bit like homeschooling. We, largely untrained but curious and intelligent educators, are capably managing small groups of learners in casual and customizable settings. 'Pastors' can be like that too: personable, flexible, and biblical, with good resources. But, in the same way: I sure wouldn't send my kids to a 'school' run by 'teachers' and admin who had no formal education or credentials. I would talk to an untrained friend about my problems, but I also know when I would need a trained therapist. In the same way, I wouldn't attend anything beyond a small group with an untrained 'pastor'. It's a recipe for disaster.

Plus a sole pastor also has to run a non-profit organization in keeping with the laws and tax codes too. Money complicates everything. It's not an easy job! (Is this pastor being paid? If so, how? And with what oversight?)

Edited August 27 by bolt.

[Bootsie]

I do not think that everyone needs a seminary degree to be an effective minister.  But, personally, I would not attend a church where the minister did not have any training but simply decied he had a calling.  I am part of a connectional church; I see accountability as important.  I think discernment to enter mnistry occurs within a Christian community.  I think it encourages growth as a mnister and the development of humility.  

[Kidlit]

I will go so far as to say that I've been a part of churches (especially as a child) in which some people would consider a seminary degree a negative rather than a positive.  I do not feel this way, but historically others have.  I've heard it referred to as "cemetery" rather than "seminary," the implication being that it's where a person's faith and "spirit" dies.  In addition to a distrust of education in general, I think it had to do with the professionalizing of what should be a "calling."  I saw this primarily in Pentecostal/charismatic churches in the 1980s and early 90s. 
 

Again, I don't share the opinion, but It definitely existed. 

Edited August 27 by Kidlit
Tense issues

[rebcoola]

Our old baptist church had 3 elders typically 1 who was the main preacher had been to seminary but it was not required and he wasn't higher than other elders.  BY far my favorite pastor of all time was layman.

[fairfarmhand]

I think for any pastor, having the humility to know when they're out of their area of expertise is essential. Like someone mentioned counseling. Many seminaries require very little training in counseling. I'm quite suspicious of pastoral counseling as a result, whether or not someone has a seminary degree. Many pastors can do more harm than good if they get in over their heads. And yes, some basic counseling can get into deep waters quickly. 

[TexasProud]

Ok, y'all are talking about different types of churches.  Ok, when I hear Baptist, I think Southern Baptist.  

Yes, absolutely there are what are called bivocational pastors who work jobs.  I have never been interested in a church that small. However, I know many do.  

For me, I attended my UMC church growing up and we grew from being little meeting in a cafeteria, to having 150 in the youth group alone.  I married my husband and went to his church and it was way too big.  The choir had 300 and they had maybe 3,000 attending.  But again, his parents went to that church when there were only 100 and they knew everyone.   Since then, we have attended churches that have anywhere from 250 to 500 attending the service in the morning.  I like that size because it is still small enough to know everyone.  However, it has a big enough pool of volunteers to do activities.

But that is my preference.

You are absolutely right that a lot of little churches do not have people with seminary degrees.  Right now the big issue we have found is for youth ministers.  I cannot remember how many churches want a youth minister, but in the old days you had to have a seminary degree to do it.  Now they can't find people with that kind of degree who are willing to do that job.  Way to much liability in the news and just not worth it to them. 

[Katy]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Every single Baptist church I have attended has required all ministers to have a seminary degree (which means you also have a bachelors).  All Baptist churches I have attended have required the head pastor to have a PHD. 

I’ve been to 7 Southern Baptist churches that had no requirement for any kind of degree at all. Each Southern Baptist church has their own rules on such matters. 

[lauraw4321]

3 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Ok, y'all are talking about different types of churches.  Ok, when I hear Baptist, I think Southern Baptist.  

Yes, absolutely there are what are called bivocational pastors who work jobs.  I have never been interested in a church that small. However, I know many do.  

For me, I attended my UMC church growing up and we grew from being little meeting in a cafeteria, to having 150 in the youth group alone.  I married my husband and went to his church and it was way too big.  The choir had 300 and they had maybe 3,000 attending.  But again, his parents went to that church when there were only 100 and they knew everyone.   Since then, we have attended churches that have anywhere from 250 to 500 attending the service in the morning.  I like that size because it is still small enough to know everyone.  However, it has a big enough pool of volunteers to do activities.

But that is my preference.

You are absolutely right that a lot of little churches do not have people with seminary degrees.  Right now the big issue we have found is for youth ministers.  I cannot remember how many churches want a youth minister, but in the old days you had to have a seminary degree to do it.  Now they can't find people with that kind of degree who are willing to do that job.  Way to much liability in the news and just not worth it to them. 

The SBC doesn't set rules for its churches. Within the SBC, some churches do and do not require seminary / training. 

[TexasProud]

Just now, lauraw4321 said:

The SBC doesn't set rules for its churches. Within the SBC, some churches do and do not require seminary / training. 

All I know is that all of my friends that I went to college with and every church here that I know of  (well the decent sized ones) have people that have gone to seminary.  Not only that.  Many of us in the congregation have seminary degrees. 

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

All I know is that all of my friends that I went to college with and every church here that I know of  (well the decent sized ones) have people that have gone to seminary.  Not only that.  Many of us in the congregation have seminary degrees. 

I understand, but again, that's luck.

https://www.sbc.net/about/what-we-do/faq/

In answer to the question about the process for ordination:

Actually, there is no standard process or policy concerning ordination in the SBC. The SBC is not a church; as such, it neither ordains nor “recognizes” ordination. Both initial ordination and recognition of previous ordination are addressed strictly on a local church level. Every cooperating church is autonomous and decides individually whether or not to ordain an individual, or whether to require ordination of its pastor or ministry staff. When a church senses that God has led a person into pastoral ministry, it is a common practice to have a council (usually of pastors) review his testimony of salvation, his pastoral calling from the Lord, and his qualifications (including theological preparation and scriptural qualifications according to 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:7–9) for pastoral ministry. Based upon that interview the church typically decides whether or not ordination would be appropriate.

Some cooperating churches may require seminary training from an SBC seminary prior to ordination, while others may not; such a requirement is entirely up to the church.

Of course, every cooperating church is free to approach ordination in the manner it deems best.

 

What I find offensive/hilarious about this is that while there's no rule, according to the SBC, your church will be kicked out of the SBC if you ordain women.

[TexasProud]

11 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

 

 

What I find offensive/hilarious about this is that while there's no rule, according to the SBC, your church will be kicked out of the SBC if you ordain women.

Yes, I was about to say this when I was reading your paragraphs, but then you said it at the end.  Yes, I find that quite ironic. 

[scholarly]

My (non)denomination strongly prefers at least bachelor's degree from a Bible college, but fewer go to seminary. My (non)denomination on the whole disapproves of women in leadership, but I went to seminary and I now adjunct at a Bible college. It's been very difficult for me to attend churches where the pastors are less educated than I (or were even my students!), but I am not allowed to speak publicly in church. Thankfully I now attend one of the few churches in our movement that is egalitarian.

[marbel]

43 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, absolutely there are what are called bivocational pastors who work jobs.  I have never been interested in a church that small. However, I know many do.

Being a bivocational pastor does not necessarily mean there is no seminary degree, if that's what you meant.

I attended a church where both pastors were part-time and had full time jobs separate from the church. The church at that time could not support a full time pastor so both took a token salary while keeping their regular jobs. They were both seminary graduates.  200+ members/regular attendees; I don't know if that's considered small or not, certainly it was not large. But not tiny either.  I suppose their setup was unusual, but it was not completely unheard of. 

 

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, marbel said:

Being a bivocational pastor does not necessarily mean there is no seminary degree, if that's what you meant.

I attended a church where both pastors were part-time and had full time jobs separate from the church. The church at that time could not support a full time pastor so both took a token salary while keeping their regular jobs. They were both seminary graduates.  200+ members/regular attendees; I don't know if that's considered small or not, certainly it was not large. But not tiny either.  I suppose their setup was unusual, but it was not completely unheard of. 

 

Yes, I know.  My son did that for awhile. Yes, you are right.  I just assumed that most may not have the seminary degree which may have been a bad assumption.  But did not mean to imply that none of them do. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, I was about to say this when I was reading your paragraphs, but then you said it at the end.  Yes, I find that quite ironic. 

So am I understanding correctly that you now attend a Southern Baptist Church where women are not allowed to be ordained or pastors?

[QueenCat]

I've never been a member of a church where the lead pastor didn't have a M.Div. Usually, if they were an associate, they were working on theirs & moving along to their own church after finishing. I can see issues with someone without the education not knowing how to handle pastoral care & so much more. Seminary is about far more than biblical knowledge.

And the tangent of women leaders.... I've been a member of ELCA, UMC, and Univeralist churches. Women are equal to men. 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

So am I understanding correctly that you now attend a Southern Baptist Church where women are not allowed to be ordained or pastors?

I have since I got married in 1990.  That said, we have a woman minister on staff as a children's minister.  We have had an ordained woman as a children's minister in the past and perhaps a youth minister a really long time ago.  My own pastor wanted to ordain our current children's minister, but was surprised when he got pushback from enough of the church for it not to pass.  (Of course, a big reason it didn't pass is because some members who hardly ever come anymore knew about the vote and all came back so they could make sure and defeat it.... )

And that is part of the controversial part of that SBC resolution that didn't pass.  I know that most people in the convention (including my husband) do not believe that women should be head pastor.  However, many (like my husband) have no problem a woman being a worship leader, associate pastor, children's minister, etc. They don't really have any issue with them preaching. I mean, almost every single Sunday school teacher in our church is a woman.  But no one has said what they mean by pastor, so I am not sure if that resolution would mean we would be in trouble since we have a woman children's minister.  

Now, I adore our local church.  But I DO believe women can be head pastors. I grew up Methodist and had one. 🙂 In our church, I feel free to speak and teach and do whatever.  In fact, before the children's minister debacle, he had talked to me about ordaining me. But a pastor cannot do that without the vote of the church.  And what made me super sad is that some of the most vocal ones speaking against it that were active members were some of our older and active women... Some of them were not nice at all and accused the pastor of teaching heresy.  And it made me mad because really if only the active people on all the committees and the ones doing the work had voted, it would have passed by a landslide.  

 

[annandatje]

2 hours ago, Frances said:

So am I understanding correctly that you now attend a Southern Baptist Church where women are not allowed to be ordained or pastors?

The  Southern Baptist treatment of women was why former President Jimmy Carter withdrew his SBC membership.

[TexasProud]

12 minutes ago, annandatje said:

The  Southern Baptist treatment of women was why former President Jimmy Carter withdrew his SBC membership.

Yes, Beth Moore, Russell Moore (not related) and many, many others.  SEveral are considering leaving the membership of the denomination.  Several are because of the sexual abuse scandals and the way they were handled.

If we were to ever move, I doubt we would join an SBC church, but we love our local church and our local church has almost nothing to do with the national organization. We have withdrawn most of our contributions.  We are more involved in the state one. 

Edited August 27 by TexasProud

[TechWife]

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Looking at the pattern of Christians from the first century,  they were uneducated and ordinary men.   
 

Editing to add, that humans tend to fall into following one man and that is problematic.  

First century Christian leaders were indeed educated. They weren’t seminary educated because there were no seminaries. Just reading what they wrote is evidence of their knowledge, though. The most obvious example is Paul, who wrote much of the New Testament and through that demonstrated the depth and breadth of his knowledge about Jewish law as well as Greek, Roman & Hellenistic law & culture in addition to the Christian faith.

 

[Terabith]

I would not attend a church where the pastor had not attended seminary.  But then, I am a layperson with an M.Div from an accredited seminary, so I value seminary education highly.  

I do think, however, that this dynamic may have to change.  Seminary education is very expensive, and with churches increasingly moving towards part time pastors, pastors are not going to be able to afford student loans for a part time job.  It is a real problem for the church as a whole.

[TechWife]

8 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Every single Baptist church I have attended has required all ministers to have a seminary degree (which means you also have a bachelors).  All Baptist churches I have attended have required the head pastor to have a PHD. 

As a longtime Baptist, I think requiring a lead pastor to have a PhD is very unusual. The only benefit I can think of would be to lend credibility to a pastor in a community where a large number of people  hold terminal degrees in their fields.

The churches I’ve been a member of all required a Masters degree from a denominational specific seminary for lead pastors. Occasionally, other staff pastors/ministers may have masters degrees from similar denominations. The only exception I’ve experienced is for music ministers who might have a bachelors in music education from a Bible college. Unfortunately, the church I attend no longer requires the “worship leader” to have a bachelors degree in anything, and it shows. In many churches the music minister role is filled by a volunteer. Often that volunteer is a school music teacher of some sort and so has a bachelor’s in a music discipline. The “worship leader” movement has really diluted that down though.