Why do people think they are invincible?

[Carrie12345]

I just don’t get it.

A group of low-experience vacationers goes out into the marshy woods on a forecasted cold, rainy day.

This results in many people conducting a search in the dark, cold, rainy, marshy woods with a feels-like temperature in the 20s. For hours.

Like, why?!? Where are the brains?

In the same vein, don’t go out on a kayak during a PA winter without a life jacket and swimming skills. Or even with. And definitely don’t complain about response time in the middle of nowhere with volunteers only and on a holiday.

Also, don’t get drunk and argue with bears.

Or store flammable items near baseboard heaters.

I needed a good vent this morning.

 

[Pam in CT]

Please thank your EMTs for their service for us.

[regentrude]

I don't think they think at all.

On a canyoneering trip, we came across four women sitting above a drop-off with a waterfall that required rapelling down. They had a rope, but no idea what to do with it. We spent over an hour helping them down, me belaying from top, DH standing in the pool and receiving them and guiding them to dry land. 

It was quite remote and we were possibly the only two parties there that day.

Edited March 10 by regentrude

[ShepCarlin]

I'm going to say that they just don't think. At all. 

[regentrude]

Another scary one: coming out of the Grand Canyon from a backpacking trip, about an hour below the rim, we meet a lady who carries nothing but a cell phone and sunglasses. She asks how much further it is to the river.

Lady, it's another nine miles and 3000 vertical feet and you'll have to come back up and you have no water and it's already past noon. She was very determined and hard to dissuade from her plans. 

[KrissiK]

I don’t think they think they are invincible. That would imply they realize the risk and decide they can come out on top. There are a lot of people who are just plain dumb. They take selfies on rocks jutting out over the Grand Canyon, they come too close to white water spring runoff in the Sierras….

[Carol in Cal.]

They were raised in cocoons where everything was Disneylandified and so they basically think that if something is open to the public it is safe.   They never had to be careful, and so they are not in the habit of doing so.

[Laura Corin]

32 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

They were raised in cocoons where everything was Disneylandified and so they basically think that if something is open to the public it is safe.   They never had to be careful, and so they are not in the habit of doing so.

This is what seems to be the case here. Since the pandemic lockdown when more people came to appreciate the outdoors, and with some young people keen to take dramatic photos, some people are just setting off. If there's a path, they seem to feel it's just like walking around a city park.

[Carol in Cal.]

When my daughter went to high school downtown, the school was filled with kids who had never walked anywhere, or taken the bus, as far as I could tell.  I chaperoned a freshman volunteer work/community service introduction day, and part of it was walking a few blocks from the meeting location to an elementary school where kids were shown several kinds of things they could volunteer to do.  And guess what?  Those kids were so oblivious.  We were walking a couple of blocks along a one way, 3 lane commute road.  Cars were speeding by at 45-50 miles per hours, and the kids were not staying on the sidewalk!  They were casually drifting into the road as they were walking along, not even noticing this!  I was so embarrassed for them!  I felt like a herd dog with a bunch of really dumb sheep!

Same way of thinking, for sure.  Quite remarkable.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

4 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

I just don’t get it.

A group of low-experience vacationers goes out into the marshy woods on a forecasted cold, rainy day.

This results in many people conducting a search in the dark, cold, rainy, marshy woods with a feels-like temperature in the 20s. For hours.

Like, why?!? Where are the brains?

In the same vein, don’t go out on a kayak during a PA winter without a life jacket and swimming skills. Or even with. And definitely don’t complain about response time in the middle of nowhere with volunteers only and on a holiday.

Also, don’t get drunk and argue with bears.

Or store flammable items near baseboard heaters.

I needed a good vent this morning.

 

Recently we had someone kayak on our river. During flood conditions. In an ice storm.

It did not have a happy outcome.

People are wired to think nothing bad will happen to them until they’re in positions where all they see are the bad things that happen to people.  

[SKL]

4 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Also, don’t get drunk ....

I think this is the key to most dumb decisions.

[TravelingChris]

54 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think this is the key to most dumb decisions.

No, a lot of people are stupid. Here is how I learned about how extremely dangerous it can be to not pay attention to the weather: It was our first time being PCSed to the CA—LA city area. One day, I was reading in the paper about this pair that drove out to a dry river or arroyo in their car. There was a thunderstorm about five or ten miles away. The rushing water left only skeletons in the car.  

[Wheres Toto]

Sorry, another vote for people are dumb.  

We always have people who try to drive out on ice that's not thick enough, people who try to swim under the ice, we've had people go hiking in places they are unfamiliar with without carrying essentials or knowing anything about avoiding bears, people who try to pet bears, people who stick their heads into known bear caves, who drive in snow/ice conditions where the roads are closed/there's a state of emergency, climb up onto a roof without safety equipment, use power tools without safety equipment, shoot off fireworks while drunk, etc.  All the time.

[Faith-manor]

I wish I knew!

Lake Michigan - red flags, waves 10-12 ft high, riptide warnings everywhere with don't swim on the sign, people still go out and drown.

Lake Huron, Port Austin - Don't kayak, sail, motorboat, swim Shipwreck point - signs everywhere, big warnings, red flags, capital letters. So what does a dingdong set of parents from the burbs of Detroit do, people who have NEVER kayked before in their lives? Decide to kayak the point at sunset for the view with two kids in tow. Damn lucky to be alive. A fishing trawler saw them and called the sheriff whose water crew rescued them. They had capsized and were in the water for 2 hrs at that point. Thankfully the kids had life vests on. I doubt they would be alive to tell the tale otherwise.

Lake Huron,  Saginaw Bay - State Police, Coast Guard, DNR, and Sheriff warnings that the ice is thing, don't go out there. All over the news, the radio, and signs at the state parks. What does an ice fishing idiot do? Drives his pickup truck out on the ice, goes through, and drowns. 

Just the other day, Rocky Mountain National Park- Stay away from wildlife. Darwin Award Seeker decides to try to pet a moose and her calf, narrowly escapes the much deserved goring.

I will never get it. I actually think it is related to disrespect for authority. How dare anyone tell me I shouldn't do x, y, z. That's my working theory anyway.

[Ethel Mertz]

And then there was the guy in Virginia who said to his friend “hold my beer.” He shot a firecracker off the top of his head. Last beer ever. Last everything ever.

[kbutton]

26 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I actually think it is related to disrespect for authority. How dare anyone tell me I shouldn't do x, y, z. That's my working theory anyway.

Bingo. And ADHD trending toward ODD explains a lot. My husband’s family are the type to be standing in a picture past the signs saying to go no farther. I hate it. And they have enough common sense in some ways, plus TONS of travel experience that I never feel comfortable—is this one of those times to listen to experience or to be concerned?!? 

I do think there are some things that are somewhat location specific information—I would not know about flash floods in the dessert if I hadn’t watched CSI; I would’ve thought that dry river bed meant that there was a river there a long time ago. Even now, I don’t know how to know where those areas would be, but now I know to try to find out if I go to a dessert.

I know next to nothing about beach safety, but since I have heard a million ways to die or be injured at the beach, I would be super careful.

But much of this stuff is just common sense.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I have now been a paramedic for almost seventeen years.

Please do not underestimate the absolute stupidity of people. Especially males in the 16-30 age group lol.  But overall, people just think rules and common sense don’t apply to them.

[SKL]

I may or may not be a person who has tried numerous things I shouldn't have tried.  😛

I pretty much quit that when I became a mom ... now that it would matter if I fell off a cliff.

So now my kids do stupid things to periodically test the health of my heart.

Why did I do the things?  Well, I guess I figured that as long as I didn't make any mistakes, I would survive (and apparently I always did).  I didn't allow for the possibility that I'd make a mistake.  Which is extra dumb (arrogant?), considering that I'm such a klutz that I can't go a day without spilling my coffee.

Or maybe I actually was being secretly careful, considering the fact that I did not in fact die (nor have I ever needed an ambulance, yet).  😛

It might be genetic in my case.  Every kid in my FOO was known for climbing up and out of everything before they could even walk.  And I still get an itch to climb things when I'm out and about.

Edited March 10 by SKL

[Carol in Cal.]

Or the folks that go to watch tsunami waves come in.  PEOPLE!  These are 1) unpredictable in height and 2) unimaginable in force.  This adds up to not a spectator event!  

[Ausmumof3]

I think the thing is a certain amount of stupidity is probably what got us here to this point in history. Steam engines blew up regularly, power generation historically was horribly unsafe. At some point in history someone decided to sit on the back of a wild animal and take their chances I guess. It seems equally nuts to me that two drivers are willing to hurtle towards each other at 100kph separated by a tiny white line and trust the other driver isn’t going to plough into them. But we do it daily. If everyone was like me and only did the safe and known things progress wouldn’t happen.

 

That said, DH’s pulled someone out the ditch last night with an open beer in the drink holder. They’re lucky to be ok but their dog is missing. So frustrating. 

[Clarita]

There is some unsafe stuff that I understand. I've been out and about during a typhoon (there was a strong don't go out unless you have to warning) and I have to say it was kind of an experience. I was still in the city I don't think it was life threatening in anyway (I wasn't that far from the ocean...). It's really different to be out in it versus seeing a video of it. 

I've also gone past the "enter at your own risk sign" at Kilauea. We went back when we started feeling the floor get a little warm (shoes weren't melting yet). I don't know how people have the will power not to go and touch cooled lava and walk on it. There was definitely a little temptation to go out and see lava. 

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I may or may not be a person who has tried numerous things I shouldn't have tried.  😛

I pretty much quit that when I became a mom ... now that it would matter if I fell off a cliff.

So now my kids do stupid things to periodically test the health of my heart.

Why did I do the things?  Well, I guess I figured that as long as I didn't make any mistakes, I would survive (and apparently I always did).  I didn't allow for the possibility that I'd make a mistake.  Which is extra dumb (arrogant?), considering that I'm such a klutz that I can't go a day without spilling my coffee.

Or maybe I actually was being secretly careful, considering the fact that I did not in fact die (nor have I ever needed an ambulance, yet).  😛

It might be genetic in my case.  Every kid in my FOO was known for climbing up and out of everything before they could even walk.  And I still get an itch to climb things when I'm out and about.

Underdeveloped frontal lobes get some leeway, imo. And I’m not opposed to some degree of risk taking, just to be clear. Skydivers, skiers, ATV riders (where they are supposed to be) etc. make some degree of adventurous sense. Accidents are bound to happen, and everyone knows it.

I don’t like it when people recklessly put others in harm’s way to save their butts (or, sometimes, to retrieve their remains.)

[gardenmom5]

14 hours ago, regentrude said:

I don't think they think at all.

On a canyoneering trip, we came across four women sitting above a drop-off with a waterfall that required rapelling down. They had a rope, but no idea what to do with it. We spent over an hour helping them down, me belaying from top, DH standing in the pool and receiving them and guiding them to dry land. 

It was quite remote and we were possibly the only two parties there that day.

We have a friend who's an experienced rafter (incl. two self equipped two weeks -on the river - trips down the Colorado.  those permits are given via lottery only).,  certified for cat 5 rapids.  He was part of a group that came across an inexperienced group on  a local river that were so out of their depth they at least realized if they continued they'd likely die.  Because of how high the river was (and dangerous), - there weren't any other groups around.  Most rafters/kayakers don't' have the necessary skills.  His group told the beginners they could get them through, but I think they refused to continue.  I don't remember how it ended.  Our local news media will always give warnings when the weather is nice and people who have no clue what they're doing think "oh, let's go float down ___ river" . . . . . )


It's amazing how many people really don't have experience with genuine back country/ wilderness.  (think about how many people say "grocery store" when asked where meat/eggs/milk come from . . . )  People from temperate areas who don't understand desert.  usually, they are so out of their element, and they didn't think they needed to get educated first.

There are signs everywhere at Yellowstone saying "don't approach wildlife" . . but people do. . . . and if someone films it, they become the latest youtube video to go viral.  and people go off trail.  Pierce Brosnan is currently facing charges for going off trail at Yellowstone and posting pictures of himself in the mammoth hot springs.  Even if they're going after him because he's famous - if it gets someone else to *think* before doing something so stupid, well he can afford the fines.  Not everyone that goes into Yellowstone springs/hot pots/puddles, etc. lives to tell the tale.

[gardenmom5]

9 hours ago, kbutton said:

 

I do think there are some things that are somewhat location specific information—I would not know about flash floods in the dessert if I hadn’t watched CSI; I would’ve thought that dry river bed meant that there was a river there a long time ago. Even now, I don’t know how to know where those areas would be, but now I know to try to find out if I go to a dessert.

 

My friend did a lot of backcountry hiking/camping when her kids were younger.
She, somehow -not sure how, ended up at a boy scout planning meeting for a back country hike.  Somehow she found out exactly where these BOY SCOUT TROOP LEADERS were planning on winter camping/had camped in the past.  She absolutely exploded!  "that's an *avalanche* chute!"

[Melissa in Australia]

One of my boys calls it natural selection ~ human species ridding itself of dumb.

He especially makes this comment about people climbing over safety barriers  and standing on the edge of crumbling cliffs for selfies. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

One of my boys calls it natural selection ~ human species ridding itself of dumb.

He especially makes this comment about people climbing over safety barriers  and standing on the edge of crumbling cliffs for selfies. 

aka:
Darwin Award winners - or wannabes . . . . 

[TravelingChris]

16 hours ago, kbutton said:

Bingo. And ADHD trending toward ODD explains a lot. My husband’s family are the type to be standing in a picture past the signs saying to go no farther. I hate it. And they have enough common sense in some ways, plus TONS of travel experience that I never feel comfortable—is this one of those times to listen to experience or to be concerned?!? 

I do think there are some things that are somewhat location specific information—I would not know about flash floods in the dessert if I hadn’t watched CSI; I would’ve thought that dry river bed meant that there was a river there a long time ago. Even now, I don’t know how to know where those areas would be, but now I know to try to find out if I go to a dessert.

I know next to nothing about beach safety, but since I have heard a million ways to die or be injured at the beach, I would be super careful.

But much of this stuff is just common sense.

Everyone here is ADHD and my son is ADHD and ODD- yet he is not one of those who ignores weather and other such circumstances..  In fact, he used to be a Cave Rescuer.  

I don't think ADHD has anything to do with it.  At least, not if they are intelligent and educated about weather and other such stuff.  

You won't believe how many people do things like wild cave exploration  w/ absolutely no idea how to do it.  Like wearing flip flops in to the wild cave, not having helmet, etc.

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

aka:
Darwin Award winners - or wannabes . . . . 

That is what most of my family call them.  

[teachermom2834]

I am a really cautious person who probably always followed rules to an unreasonable degree so anytime I did anything like that is was definitely stupidity. City kid who didn’t understand nature, etc. When I moved to the south I thought all the thunderstorm warnings we would get were silly. I was like uh it is a thunderstorm…big whoop. Then I had a tree dropped through my house and I got it. But my experience with thunderstorms just wasn’t that powerful. Limited life experience and all that.

But in my foo there was a definite disrespect for authority/nothing bad is going to happen attitude. The craziest thing I remember is an amusement park we frequented as a kid was closing and there was a big roller coaster there my dad loved and my little sister was too small to ride it. The last day the park was open we went and my dad was relentless in pressuring this teenager to let my sister who was much too small ride the coaster. Eventually my dad won and my sister rode and she didn’t fly out and she lived to tell about it and it is one of my dad’s proudest stories. She lived. My dad got his way. He won the day. I think a lot of things go that way. 

[Tenaj]

My dh is the guy who likes to take (in my opinion) risks.  He's the one who stands out in the front yard during a tornado warning rather than sheltering with the rest of us - though a few weeks ago he did shelter for the first time ever and the tornado landed about 3 miles west of us (so basically went right over our house) so maybe he has some sixth sense that I don't have 

He says it's just a guy thing to push physical limits.  So far he's come out all right.  It makes me angry once in a while but usually only if he's involving me or the kids in the foolishness or making me responsible for the kids while he does something weird - about 8 years ago we were hiking in the Smoky Mountains when we saw a momma bear and cub.  So at that time with us,  we had three elderly relatives, all of my kids (youngest 6 and 😎and three very young granddaughters with us.  My dh goes towards the bears while I'm trying to get everyone else farther away.  I wasn't happy but we all survived 🙂 (can't edit sunglass emoji - should say "8")

Edited March 11 by Tenaj
Weird emoji

[gardenmom5]

39 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

My dh is the guy who likes to take (in my opinion) risks.  He's the one who stands out in the front yard during a tornado warning rather than sheltering with the rest of us - though a few weeks ago he did shelter for the first time ever and the tornado landed about 3 miles west of us (so basically went right over our house) so maybe he has some sixth sense that I don't have 

He says it's just a guy thing to push physical limits.  So far he's come out all right.  It makes me angry once in a while but usually only if he's involving me or the kids in the foolishness or making me responsible for the kids while he does something weird - about 8 years ago we were hiking in the Smoky Mountains when we saw a momma bear and cub.  So at that time with us,  we had three elderly relatives, all of my kids (youngest 6 and 😎and three very young granddaughters with us.  My dh goes towards the bears while I'm trying to get everyone else farther away.  I wasn't happy but we all survived 🙂 (can't edit sunglass emoji - should say "8")

 

I had to send that to dsil . . . . he saw a kiddie pool fly across their backyard, but he couldn't see anything so he *opened. the. front. door.*    (insert fainting emoji).   When he saw the (thankfully) small tornado coming down the street, he tried to close the door - but he couldn't.  This was when he was in a back brace and hadn't been out of the hospital post surgery very long.

Edited March 11 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

44 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

My dh is the guy who likes to take (in my opinion) risks.  He's the one who stands out in the front yard during a tornado warning rather than sheltering with the rest of us - though a few weeks ago he did shelter for the first time ever and the tornado landed about 3 miles west of us (so basically went right over our house) so maybe he has some sixth sense that I don't have 

He says it's just a guy thing to push physical limits.  So far he's come out all right.  It makes me angry once in a while but usually only if he's involving me or the kids in the foolishness or making me responsible for the kids while he does something weird - about 8 years ago we were hiking in the Smoky Mountains when we saw a momma bear and cub.  So at that time with us,  we had three elderly relatives, all of my kids (youngest 6 and 😎and three very young granddaughters with us.  My dh goes towards the bears while I'm trying to get everyone else farther away.  I wasn't happy but we all survived 🙂 (can't edit sunglass emoji - should say "8")

Are you from an area trees aren't that big?  or you don't get windstorms?   We don't have thunderstorms anything like the south (I've been through a fair few in Texas - incl one there were reader board signs all over telling people the storm was coming and they needed to be off the road by ___ pm when the storm was expected to hit.   And tornado sirens going off . . .   anyway

I'm from the PNW, suburb of Seattle (Seattle has wooded areas re: Fort Lawton/Discovery Park for starters)  - big windstorms bring down trees all. the. time.  Sometimes they will come down on houses - or cars.  Or power lines . . .    we can get storms that are remnants of typhoons that wandered into the eastern pacific  . . .(Dh still talks about "The Columbus Day Storm of 1962" (remnants of Typhoon Freda) and how they watched the trees behind their house fall down)  I recall one storm in the early 70s, they wouldn't let us leave school unless a parent actually picked us up.  The classroom window faced a brick wall across a courtyard.  At one point, the teacher closed the heavy rubber blackout drapes and told us to go to the far side of the room.  When we emerged, a deciduous tree was split in half on the ground, and there were trees down in the parking lot.  Several teachers cars were totaled.   That type of destructive wind where we are always comes from the south, so trees fall to the north. - so the most dangerous trees are the ones south of your house.  And, a neighbor had a couple trees come down on their house.

- I remember the video taken by the kids in their under garage tornado shelter as they stuck their camera up and you could see it come right down their street.

[kbutton]

5 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Everyone here is ADHD and my son is ADHD and ODD- yet he is not one of those who ignores weather and other such circumstances..  In fact, he used to be a Cave Rescuer.  

I don't think ADHD has anything to do with it.  At least, not if they are intelligent and educated about weather and other such stuff.  

I know lots of people with ADHD that use the additional information to justify taking risks because they define the risks right away or define their actions as being enough to mitigate the risks.

Obviously not all people with ADHD have the impulsive type, but I literally don’t know people IRL who do this stuff that don’t have ADHD.

[Bambam]

I think many folks just don't know what they don't know and don't think about researching/asking for input. 

Years ago in Houston, my DH and his co-workers advised a new employee, not from this area, that there was a hurricane in the Gulf headed for Houston, and he should fill up his car with gas, get water, etc. Guy must have thought they were making that stuff up, and he did none of it (despite the same thing being on all the news channels, etc). Afterwards, days with no electricity, many without drinkable water, trees down, etc and no gas to be found anywhere, he said he understood and he would do those preparation things next time.  Never having been in a hurricane prone location, it was all new and unbelievable to him. And he didn't listen to the various sources that were telling him what prep to do. 

[Ginevra]

My most recent hike on the Appalachian Trail, we encountered a large group of hikers (around 15-20). The man at the head was clearly the expert who knew the trail, knew the trail difficulty level, and knew his ability to complete the hike in one day. However, as we talked with some of the people at the end of the line, they had *NO IDEA* of anything. They did not even know the answer to whether they intended to go N-S or S-N. They were just following the leader with no idea of the plan at all. 
 

The man said the hike was a 20-mile section. So…pretty crazy to jump into a 20-mile hike without even knowing your direction! 

[Carrie12345]

Another kayaker today! Didn’t know how to swim and no life jacket. And it snowed Sunday, just to give an idea of how cold the water still is here.

[Lecka]

Oh, no!!!!!!

 

My Dad did the same thing with a hurricane in Houston.  He had spent his entire life in an area with severe drought and had no idea the damage water could do.  
 

I had a similar experience when I was an exchange student, I was really excited about rain and couldn’t believe how much it was raining.  Another exchange student said she didn’t like rain like that because where she was from they would have severe mud slides.  I could not believe it, but years later I saw video of massive flooding and mud slides in her country.  
 

My Dad is also kind-of a know-it-all you can’t tell things to, because he won’t listen.  It is part of his personality, it’s very hard for him to take in new information that is not “sensible” to him.  It just won’t make sense to him.  

[Heartstrings]

This survey shows that 6% of Americans think they could take a bear in a fight.   That might not be a large percentage but would still be a large number of people.  I’m betting if you think you can take a bear you wouldn’t think twice about a kayak.  
 

https://www.newsweek.com/surprising-americans-beat-wild-animals-fight-experts-1691793#:~:text=Could You Beat a Bear,weigh up to 1%2C700 pounds.

[Alicia64]

I've been a travel writer for over 15 years now and what you're talking about is a real problem. I don't want to horrify you so I won't give examples, but through the years I saw stupid accident after stupid accident.

Sometimes the incident is awful and beyond tragic. It seems like people are on vacation and they forget that they're still in the real world, just not at home.

Edited March 12 by Alicia64

[prairiewindmomma]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Another kayaker today! Didn’t know how to swim and no life jacket. And it snowed Sunday, just to give an idea of how cold the water still is here.

It's wild, isn't it.  We regularly see alerts on local streams and rivers.  I suspect someone will die this weekend---it's supposed to be our first sunny and warm day since last fall, so I know people are going to try to play weekend warrior.  Cold water shock is such a very real danger and people just don't understand it.

I think they should change some signage in high incident locations.  Instead of a place that has a sign that says, "Do not go past this point",  a more effective sign would be "9 people have died here since 2016 from falls off of crumbling cliffs after crossing this point"

 

[Heartstrings]

21 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

think they should change some signage in high incident locations.  Instead of a place that has a sign that says, "Do not go past this point",  a more effective sign would be "9 people have died here since 2016 from falls off of crumbling cliffs after crossing this point"

There is a beach on Lake Michigan that has a really steep climb to get back out.    It has a sign that says you’ll have to pay $3000 for a rescue.  I like that idea for a sign.  

[frogger]

20 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 "Do not go past this point",  a more effective sign would be "9 people have died here since 2016 from falls off of crumbling cliffs after crossing this point"

 

That may be more effective. I think it would work on some. 

 

 

 

I think what is normal to us in one area may be strange in another. My lack of knowledge in other locations makes me more risk adverse in strange ecosystems but I think what makes me recognize that is my knowledge of the wild where I live. 

My grandparents ranched in Arizona so I spent a lot of time in the desert but if I hadn't I doubt I would magically know that rain far away can flood the dry wash I am in while there are sunny blue skies overhead. Some things are just understood locally that don't make sense elsewhere. 

 

 

But there is also different risks people are willing to take. I am not willing to sit inside my home and do nothing to stay safe. Why even live then? That being said, I do try to learn.

DS likes to back country ski. That is why he has avalanche training, Wilderness 1st responder training, and is currently working on wilderness EMT certification.  Could he still die out there? Of course. Especially since people he is with are likely to be less trained than him. 😂 Would internet people judge him. Probably. But he is less likely to die of a heart attack sitting around on his computer all day.  So there is a balance. 

I should make sure our wills are up to date before we bikepack Denali past the road closure this summer. So many grizzelies! Lol 

 

[Anne]

3 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

This survey shows that 6% of Americans think they could take a bear in a fight.   That might not be a large percentage but would still be a large number of people.  I’m betting if you think you can take a bear you wouldn’t think twice about a kayak.  
 

https://www.newsweek.com/surprising-americans-beat-wild-animals-fight-experts-1691793#:~:text=Could You Beat a Bear,weigh up to 1%2C700 pounds.

We had a bear cub wander into our garage last summer.  We could not get that bear out of there quickly enough!!  Cub’s mama and siblings showed up *moments* after we herded the cub out!!

[Heartstrings]

6 minutes ago, Anne said:

We had a bear cub wander into our garage last summer.  We could not get that bear out of there quickly enough!!  Cub’s mama and siblings showed up *moments* after we herded the cub out!!

😳😳. I had a fit over an opossum  in my garage.  I’d have just died if there was a bear.   

[katilac]

On 3/10/2024 at 2:12 PM, kbutton said:

 I do think there are some things that are somewhat location specific information—I would not know about flash floods in the dessert if I hadn’t watched CSI; I would’ve thought that dry river bed meant that there was a river there a long time ago. Even now, I don’t know how to know where those areas would be, but now I know to try to find out if I go to a dessert.

 

But wouldn't you try and find out about any new place before going on a hike or such? And the other dangers in the desert besides flash floods?

On 3/10/2024 at 4:52 PM, SKL said:

Or maybe I actually was being secretly careful, considering the fact that I did not in fact die (nor have I ever needed an ambulance, yet).  😛

 

Or maybe it's true that God protects fools and children 😄

On 3/11/2024 at 7:22 AM, teachermom2834 said:

 The last day the park was open we went and my dad was relentless in pressuring this teenager to let my sister who was much too small ride the coaster. Eventually my dad won and my sister rode and she didn’t fly out and she lived to tell about it and it is one of my dad’s proudest stories. She lived.  

I get the "what if?" chills just reading this.

1 hour ago, frogger said:

 

DS likes to back country ski. That is why he has avalanche training, Wilderness 1st responder training, and is currently working on wilderness EMT certification.  Could he still die out there? Of course. Especially since people he is with are likely to be less trained than him. 😂 Would internet people judge him. Probably. But he is less likely to die of a heart attack sitting around on his computer all day.  So there is a balance. 

That's a completely different category than illegally going off-trail, or diving into the wilderness with no preparation.

[frogger]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

 That's a completely different category than illegally going off-trail, or diving into the wilderness with no preparation.

I agree but I assure you that a few lines on twitter or other favored social media would not relate all that context and there would be judgement that he was stupid. That was my point. 

 

Earlier in the post I mentioned death count on a sign might help. So it wasn't like I was completely disagreeing. I just find keyboard warriors in general over judgy. 

 

I do think the average American has usually been protected their whole life. Starting with safe playgrounds. They are clueless but I do think a lot of it is a failure to understand that decisions have consequences because they are always protected.

That and overuse of signs makes people start to ignore them and if they haven't been exposed to danger and good practices growing up, they just are clueless of their ignorance as most of us are about something we haven't been exposed to much.

[Carrie12345]

3 hours ago, frogger said:

That and overuse of signs makes people start to ignore them and if they haven't been exposed to danger and good practices growing up, they just are clueless of their ignorance as most of us are about something we haven't been exposed to much.

But, when it comes to adults at least, surely they’ve seen news stories about people who have done all of these things, no?

Obviously that isn’t enough. I mean, people still drink and drive and I can’t imagine anyone of driving age, at least in the US, who hasn’t heard about deaths and license revoking. “It won’t happen to me.”

[kbutton]

12 hours ago, katilac said:

But wouldn't you try and find out about any new place before going on a hike or such? And the other dangers in the desert besides flash floods?

It depends. If I’m with other people that have organized it or am visiting a local person that should know, I’d have been prone to trust them—Not so much now, but when at the time in life I was referring to when I made the comment.

I think so much goes back to what you know from experience unless warnings are posted.

Touristy places and touristy things are often assumed safe because everyone knows someone who’s been to that place.

 

[SKL]

Yes, I would have potentially made some of these mistakes out of ignorance.  Just like some folks from other states could be lost in a ditch until Spring if they decided to drive in some of our blizzards.

I had a friend who moved to the Great Lakes region from India to go to school.  He arrived in January.  People told him it gets cold here in the winter, so dress accordingly.  Him:  "so I wore a long-sleeved shirt instead of short sleeves."  LOL.  Do you even know what "cold" means if you've never experienced less than 60 degrees?

[AnotherNewName]

Humans are notoriously bad at risk assessments.  Which while maddening in some ways, it is also why we have bungled our way all around this planet from pole to pole.

Edited March 14 by AnotherNewName