Help me figure out what to do about visiting my family, like in general

[SKL]

A couple gift ideas for the kids to keep at the grandparents' house, which could possibly help with the twins' high-maintenance-ness:

• A "wii" - the kind where the kids play physical games with / against each other.
• Two "mini tramps," and you can make some suggestions that can keep their minds and bodies busy.  My kid used to do this for therapy around that age.  For example, bounce while counting backwards or saying the ABCs (or whatever is cognitively appropriate for the twins).

I feel like we're catastrophizing the existence of the twins, but they aren't always going to be rambunctious, loud little maniacs.  They were 3 last time, they're 5 now - they've probably already calmed down a little - next time they'll be well into school age and probably much easier to be around.  Before you know it, they'll be in charge of the Christmas baking. 

So for the misophonia, I'd let my kid limit time with the kids this time (if she comes), but definitely not burn bridges.

I also think it's probably a good idea to explore sustainable solutions for your daughters' "hate" of children, because successfully interacting with other people's kids is a valuable life skill.  Someday they will have a work party at a boss's house, or family volunteer day at work, or a family wedding, or procreating neighbors, and there will be kids who will run and scream.  It's part of everyone's life.

My kid has misophonia too, and it is challenging, but completely opting out of life isn't an option.

Edited December 17, 2023 by SKL

[SKL]

Also ... you don't need to ask permission to provide food so your family can eat.  You've tried the traditional way and it didn't work.  Next time, you know what to do.

[Heartstrings]

34 minutes ago, Terabith said:

food, and I got lambasted and criticized and there was NO FOOD for dinner, and my kids were starving, and I tried to convince my parents to let us go out for Chinese or something, and my parents were just like, "Nobody needs to eat that often," but all we'd had for lunch was the same meager bowls of watery broccoli cheese soup that we'd been eating on all week and that my kids hate but my parents are convinced they love.

How did you resolve this?  Did you make your kids skip dinner or did you leave and go get food?  

[Heartstrings]

45 minutes ago, Terabith said:

  I just haven't been able to face it, and the kids are genuinely busy with things and have different schedules, and frankly are all adults now.

This is your “excuse” or reason.  You don’t really get to make your kids go visit grandma anymore.  Life changes when our kids become adults, and it’s hard but its ultimately good.  Only your youngest is still a minor, and if she’s about to graduate she won’t be for much longer.

You decide when or if to go, on your own. You invite your now adult kids to go with you.  

 If they agree to come knowing what its going to be like, you can come up with plans to minimize the negatives, like naps or a hotel or just out of the house activities or short visit.  They also come knowing the consequences and you don’t have to feel too guilty about that.  
 

If they decline you accept their decision and go.  You aren’t responsible for their relationship with grandparents.  
 

You also don’t have to follow “family culture”.  That’s not a rule or a law that you have to follow.  

Edited December 17, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Terabith]

13 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

How did you resolve this?  Did you make your kids skip dinner or did you leave and go get food?  

I finally went and got Chinese.  
 

My youngest is 18 but still in high school but she’s graduating soon.  

[Terabith]

My mom won’t allow active toys because she’s afraid someone might be hurt.  

[Faith-manor]

Honestly, I wouldn't visit. But that is me. I have a dil that is non-binary, they/them, and I don't subject our family to the insults and hideous behavior of members of my extended family. (Staring directly at my brother and his narcissistic, cruel, and vicious wife.)

But, your kids are adults, and can do what they want. They don't need to visit. People who completely disregard disabilities, and disrespect LGBTQ are toxic. It is okay for them to cut off folks like that even if they are relatives.

10 hrs is a long way to go for a short visit, but I think showing up one evening to say hi, spend an hour, go to the hotel, offer to take them to lunch the next day, take them home, go back to the hotel, and then meet for breakfast the day after and go back home is perfectly fine. Limit the contact and keep it in a neutral place. If you want to take your sister out, take them to a McD's with a play land or to the zoo. It isn't really fair to those little ones to be cooped up at grandma's either when they have so much energy they need to burn.

The hard thing about families is that our society has always functioned under the notion that children, even grown adult children, are always to endure toxic behavior from their "elders", and maintain a relationship out of sheer obligation. It gave so many parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles the idea that they get to behave however they like with no consequences. It turns families into bullies. For some families, it was a religious thing under the heading of " honor your father and mother" or "turn the other cheek". So much abuse and toxic behavior proliferated, like noxious weeds in a garden left too long unattended.

It is really bad. I have some news for you though. The stress in your life that is relieved when you let it go and stop turning yourself into knots to appease unappeasable people is enormous. The day I gave up on a trying to be the good daughter with my dad was the day my life became a million times better. He is dead now, and I have no regrets. I really do not. He was who he was, and nothing was ever going to change that. Releasing myself from " good" daughter responsibility was the very best thing I ever did. It was also really, really good for my kids and my husband when I let go.

Your parents are old. For sure you feel that societal guilt about not being a part of their lives. But they bear an enormous burden for why the relationship is what it is now, and they don't care. Trust me. They don't. Love is action, not feelings. The way they treat you and your kids is NOT from a place of love, but a place of seeking control. You want to believe that it is somehow from a good motivation because that hurts less.

Allow yourself to grieve. Be kind to yourself. It isn't easy by any stretch. I cried buckets before giving it up. I did, for my own sake and not his, spend the last day of his life with him. He verbally abused me right up to the very end. 

I wish you the very best. Many, many hugs!

Edited December 18, 2023 by Faith-manor

[Innisfree]

A very minor improvement that might be possible: would audiobooks, using headphones or earbuds, be an accepted way to entertain the kids for a while? Listening to literature is completely virtuous, yes, unlike staring at screens?

I hear that it’s not likely that your parents will understand the misophonia. I would still work on your sister, if she’s generally a reasonable person. I’d go as far as providing links to websites or buying her some books or, I don’t know, anything that might help her understand. I’d also point out that just like autism, there’s a spectrum of how people can be affected, so just because this person she knows can cope with xyz, that doesn’t mean your kid can. I would want to do everything possible to demonstrate that you’re dealing with serious issues, not just trying to avoid her kids.

If Sis can understand the situation, then she can help her kids understand. They’re getting old enough that they should be able to understand that noise really hurts their cousin, just as if they had been cut or scraped a knee. She can also help them practice quiet behavior, because they want to be able to visit quietly. Coloring books, play dough or modeling clay while listening to an audiobook, I know you know all the possibilities.

Mostly, though, I think you just need to find some comfort knowing that you’ve done the best you can. Let your kids off the hook, entirely. I remember your description of the visit with no food. Your parents don’t sound like they can be reasonable. That stinks, but it’s not your fault. You’ve made valiant efforts. You can still see folks for short visits that may not include your kids, which happens as kids grow up. I’m sorry it’s so difficult and painful.

[Danae]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

 

Oh, did I mention the food situation?  We're trapped in my parents' house there, and they serve the same horrible food every single day, and my kids hate it all, and any suggestions that we go out or something is always shot down.  That Christmas I pointed out that there were going to be 14 people in the house for Christmas Eve and Day, at least three meals, and that one thing of turkey cold cuts was not going to cut it for everyone and could we please buy some food, and I got lambasted and criticized and there was NO FOOD for dinner, and my kids were starving, and I tried to convince my parents to let us go out for Chinese or something, and my parents were just like, "Nobody needs to eat that often," but all we'd had for lunch was the same meager bowls of watery broccoli cheese soup that we'd been eating on all week and that my kids hate but my parents are convinced they love.  

 

I’m having flashbacks.  My MIL was the same way . . . offended that anyone wanted to eat when she wasn’t hungry, and expecting growing kids to eat like 80 year olds.  In case it helps anyone else . . . EShakti dresses have pockets large enough to fit a full meal in.  I used to sneak my kids food while MIL was in the bathroom.  That was before I figured out the “she’s not going to be happy anyway” thing and just insisted on stopping for meals at regular intervals (or going out for them) whether she liked it or not.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Danae
.

[katilac]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

my parents are simply not going to change 

Correct. You will need to do the changing. 

[Dmmetler]

Is there any way that you could meet in a third location? Somewhere that you could book multiple hotel suites/rooms so that the kids could escape, and the extended family kids wouldn't be dropped off for long hours? 

Or, alternatively, can you find a reason to "drop by" on the way to something else, where you have reason to leave after a few hours, and then maybe do the same on the return trip? Or fly in somewhere a few hours away, rent a car for a day to go pick them up for dinner or something, and then go back? Realistically, most things would probably be available closer to home, but THEY don't need to know it's just an excuse...

[freesia]

You have gotten a ton of great advice. I agree that a lot of it stems from your relationship with your mom. Does it help to know that in my family I’ve had no problem telling my mom that too much going on overstimulates us so we will only see the cousins in the afternoon. Or, when she was overwhelmed caretaking for my dad and feeding us tiny portions, I’d go get more food. That’s healthy. You “should “ be able to sit her down and say—if we are going to stay with you, we need xyz. Does that work or should we stay in a hotel?  She will survive the disappointment. It’s ok to disappoint her. 
 

I need to also say that we are a neurotypical family who loves children and what you are discribing with your niblings would drive us all insane. Ten hours of constant interaction???? Regularly? No, just no. It would even drive me crazy to interact for 10 hours straight with my own kids lol! 

Edited December 18, 2023 by freesia

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Is there any way that you could meet in a third location? Somewhere that you could book multiple hotel suites/rooms so that the kids could escape, and the extended family kids wouldn't be dropped off for long hours? 

Or, alternatively, can you find a reason to "drop by" on the way to something else, where you have reason to leave after a few hours, and then maybe do the same on the return trip? Or fly in somewhere a few hours away, rent a car for a day to go pick them up for dinner or something, and then go back? Realistically, most things would probably be available closer to home, but THEY don't need to know it's just an excuse...

I'm thinking I need to push for this.  I'm not 100% sure how well my parents are to travel at this point.  But I think it's a definite possibility.  It would mean my mom giving up on us seeing the aunts and such, but honestly, I just can't worry too much about all of these relationships.

[JustEm]

With all the added info. I likely would visit them. At least not with my kids. And i would not stay at their house under any circumstances 

[Carol in Cal.]

I would definitely invest in my own car seats.  

OR, at a minimum, state firmly that I would not accept responsibility for children without car seats and a change of clothes being left with them.  Anything short of that is ridiculous.

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, freesia said:

I need to also say that we are a neurotypical family who loves children and what you are discerning with your niblings would drive us all insane. Ten hours of constant interaction???? Regularly? No, just no. It would even drive me crazy to interact for 10 hours straight with my own kids lol! 

Right?  With my own kids, I would turn the tv on for a couple of hours in the afternoon, and we spent hours outside of the house at playgrounds and such, and also I would send them off to play on their own a bit.  

We also didn't have much warning.  Like there was no, "Okay, kid is going to come over tomorrow at nine am."  It would be my sister (whose life is complicated and hard) would be like, "Oh, I'm gonna bring twin A over," and it would just be like, SURPRISE!  

And then again with the sleepovers.  It was just unpredictable and unending.

My youngest kid tried gamely to interact with the twins and older cousin.  My older probably should practice the skill of being around children, but the reality is, I just don't think that's going to happen.  They are rigid and just.....I don't think pushing my older to interact more gracefully is frankly going to work.

[freesia]

11 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Right?  With my own kids, I would turn the tv on for a couple of hours in the afternoon, and we spent hours outside of the house at playgrounds and such, and also I would send them off to play on their own a bit.  

We also didn't have much warning.  Like there was no, "Okay, kid is going to come over tomorrow at nine am."  It would be my sister (whose life is complicated and hard) would be like, "Oh, I'm gonna bring twin A over," and it would just be like, SURPRISE!  

And then again with the sleepovers.  It was just unpredictable and unending.

My youngest kid tried gamely to interact with the twins and older cousin.  My older probably should practice the skill of being around children, but the reality is, I just don't think that's going to happen.  They are rigid and just.....I don't think pushing my older to interact more gracefully is frankly going to work.

And they are 20 years old. I think older people and people with only little kids forget that there is a point in their teens where you cannot force a kid to spend time with relatives. You can ask, but the more you push the less likely they are to do it. And sometimes they will just not do it bc they are self-absorbed. That’s outside of any other issue.you are right your oldest needs to learn to be more flexible however they are 20. They have agency. Other than encouraging growth you can’t teach it the way you might of 10 years ago. 
 

One thing I didn’t touch on is that I don’t think you all were rude about the sleepover. You said no. It was your mother’s job to entertain him. You’d already spent time with him. 

[catz]

Well I would 100% stay at a hotel.  I would not require any adult kids to visit if they didn't want to.  I might not go on THE holiday.  I would not share more than one meal a day at your parent's house.   If possible, I would create finite outings to do each day - eat at a restaurant, go to a museum, drive around and look at lights, etc.  Invite them to hang out the pool at the hotel WITH your sister for a couple hours and order pizza.  I do agree learning to tolerate kids is a life skill.  I do think there are years for teens where that can be tough.  But it's much easier for a couple hours than for days on end with no escape.

Making YOU the only one that travels and then making it difficult when you get there is not doing them any favors.  It is absolutely OK to have boundaries and help enforce boundaries for your kids.  "Kiddos don't do well with younger kids at this point and just need a little more space and room to have a break so we're staying at a hotel"  It's incredibly rude to expect your sensory kids to be performative on demand for their younger cousins 24-7 while they are visiting.  

If the drive is hard, Do 6 hours one day, get up and do 4 hours the next.  Find some interesting stuff in the middle.  Try not to make the whole thing miserable for you.  ETA if it were just you or you and your spouse, could you swing flying?

Edited December 18, 2023 by catz

[elegantlion]

14 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

How about just you and your DH go for a quick visit? Invent a reason that your kids can't come. And a reason you need to stay in a hotel, if you think you do.

This. Kids are adults. Maybe they have plans with friends that they committed to long before your planned visit. Maybe dh is going to have some Zoom meetings that require no outside noise and perhaps discussion of confidential issues. 

My sister stays in a hotel when she comes to visit my mom. I live in the same town as my mom. I don't blame my sister.at.all. My mom was miffed for the first few years but she's over it now. 

[KungFuPanda]

If no matter what you do there are complaints and misery AND you plan to go anyway, then get the hotel rooms. It won’t stop the criticism, but at least you can go late, leave early, and feed your family each day. Is anyone actually enjoying themselves?

[KSera]

I relate to a number of things about your situation, some specific to similarities our kids have. Based on our own experience, I agree that it’s worth upsetting the boat a bit by letting them know you’ll be needing to stay in a hotel in the future. There came a point where we had to make that switch (including when family visits us—it no longer worked for us to have them stay with us at night), and it was awkward to have to make that move, but after the first time, I think it was clear to everyone that it actually works better that way and it’s not been an issue since. I hope it might be that way for you as well. 
 

[Chris in VA]

7 hours ago, elegantlion said:

This. Kids are adults. Maybe they have plans with friends that they committed to long before your planned visit. Maybe dh is going to have some Zoom meetings that require no outside noise and perhaps discussion of confidential issues. 

My sister stays in a hotel when she comes to visit my mom. I live in the same town as my mom. I don't blame my sister.at.all. My mom was miffed for the first few years but she's over it now. 

This. What if you and your hubby (speaking to the OP) went on a "getaway," and told your mom you were just going to pop in and take them out to dinner, and maybe brunch the next day? The expectation of you staying at their house will be less (because you want to...you know) even for her, and the fact that you want to make time for them during a marital getaway would sound rather nice from her perspective. Then plan a nice time for you and hubby, and squeeze your parents in on the front end. 

It is hard when you have difficult relatives, but you have to do what sits right with you; cutting them off, for example, obviously wouldn't work for your heart. You seem like you are, even with lots of therapy (can relate), still healing from a hurtful childhood, hurts that continued into adulthood. It is ok to do what is right for you--you can learn to tolerate some of their discomfort, even if you feel uncomfortable with it because of how you were raised. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Chris in VA

[Katy]

The lack of food alone would have made my kids melt down. I’d forgotten that thread. Feeding teens is the bare minimum needed for civility. 

[marbel]

We  had some similarities with my in-laws.  They live an 11-hour drive from us. They live in a hard place to get to and the closest large airport was still 4 hours away. A regional airport that was closer was too expensive for my family of 4. The in-laws would not come to us. So, we made some changes over time to make the trip more bearable.

- Took 2 days to drive there, 1-2 days back. Somehow coming home from the long trip was easier in a day than going. We'd plan a nice stop on the way down, stay at their house a maximum of 2 days, and then come home. If we had the time, we'd stop overnight in a fun town we like so we'd end the trip on a high note.

- Started staying in a motel. The problem with their house was mold/mildew. It was so uncomfortable (I'd have a constant minor headache during visits, and my husband couldn't breathe well); the breaking point was when one of our kids had an allergic reaction that resolved with benadryl (so not super serious) but we weren't going to risk it another. We kept visits to their house to a couple of hours max, and sat outside when possible. My in-laws never believed their house was a problem even though we'd been telling them for years. 

- Brought plenty of food of our liking. Having a motel room helped as we could eat there. We kept snacks in the car and brought them into the house as needed. This was frowned upon but we stopped caring. 

- Ate breakfast before going to visit them, and insisted on taking them out for at least one dinner. Meals at their house were torture. My MIL was a horrible cook; she clearly hated it and hated to eat. She constantly talked about "fat people" and their bad eating habits. Fun conversation while trying to enjoy a meal! I could go on and on about that. 

It was hard; they were hurt/offended. They didn't understand us or our kids. We could tolerate their conversation OK (gossip about people we never knew, talk about their college football team which we don't care about) if we knew we could leave. At least the TV (weather channel) volume was kept low, so we could see it but not have to hear it. 

Our changes did affect the relationship. My MIL once told my husband not to come see them even though we had not been there for a few years. She died without them speaking much. My FIL has been more communicative since she died, though when he recently remarried my husband and his sister had to beg to attend the wedding. I was not invited nor were our kids. 

I'm sorry you are going through this. 💗

Edited December 18, 2023 by marbel

[Faith-manor]

I would also like to say that we are finding that in general with many elderly people, staying with them just doesn't work not even if they are the nicest people in the world generally. The reason for this is that so many of them can't really manage a lot of change to their routine, and their routines can be quite strange. For instance, my paternal grandfather could not fall to sleep before midnight for most of the final years of his life. He was also an early riser, about 5:30 am for most of his adulting years due to his jobs. It was like he had an internal alarm clock that couldn't be changed. Since this was not enough sleep for him, he took a 1-4 pm nap every, single day. My grandmother, a very dear person to me, demanded that the house be kept deathly quiet for his nap period. If you were staying with them, you couldn't even have a conversation anywhere in the home. Go outside, even in inclement weather. 3 hrs every single day. That really isn't very guest friendly, and most certainly not for kids. Then he would be up and things would be normal, but if you put your own kids to bed at 8 or 9 pm, Mr. Hard of Hearing, was still going to have the t.v. blaring at air raid siren volume until 11 pm when his last evening show went off. He was quiet until 11:45, and then made a helluva racket in the kitchen getting his nightly bowl of grapenuts cereal before going to bed. I have never heard a human so loud just getting cereal. One of the guest rooms was just off the kitchen so if you were sleeping, you were also waking up now.

I have witnessed all kinds of similar mayhem and strange schedules among the elderly, and frankly, that is all perfectly normal when bodies get that old, frail, and sensitive. No judgment there. My day is coming, for sure. It is just that this is often so very not easy on guests or just not doable especially with kids. And disruptions to these little routines can be very disconcerting to the elder. My mother in law hosted her eldest grandson and his s.o. over five days at Thanksgiving. These are the sweetest people, easy peasy guests in the grand scheme of things, quiet as mice, and super helpful (my nephew did a whole bunch of things for her around the house that was on her "honey do" list for my dh). When they left, she was utterly exhausted and said she didn't know how much longer she could host people. She just can't handle things being different, and just trying to converse more than usual, or think about meal times every day, or head to the bathroom and someone is in there....she just doesn't have the band width anymore.

So it is also okay to simply pull the plug on these things even when relationships are otherwise good, and go get hotels or vbro, or stay with different family members even if at first, it ruffles feathers. Blame it on yourself if you need to, "I have developed some sleep disturbances, and it will be very difficult for you if my insomnia kicks in and I am making noise and pacing the floor all night." Something like that. Make yourself out to be a terrible intrusion on their life, and a potential problem if you prefer to try to diffuse the tension by making sure they see you as the source of the issue and not them.

[Acadie]

Being the oldest seems like a factor here, to me, in addition to the mismatch.

When your sister's kids are late teens and 20s, they won't be there or visiting all the time, just due to life phase. Busy, don't feel like going, whatever. You're the family culture buster partly because your kids are the oldest and reaching this developmental phase first.

Same with staying in a hotel, since no one else has done that. 

I was the villain with my in-laws when we started staying at a hotel for visits, but now all dh's siblings do the same and it's easier on everyone, including MIL and FIL.

And it's kind of wild when adult children develop their own sense of family dynamics, and make their own choices about how often and with whom they want to connect. I agree with other posters that focusing on what you want for yourself in terms of visiting, as your parents age, is the way to go. And ground yourself in and communicate your and your immediate family members' experiences, feelings, life phases and needs. Everyone else can deal however they see fit. 

 

[Acadie]

I'm liking Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents: Practical Tools to Establish Boundaries & Reclaim Your Emotional Autonomy by Lindsay Gibson. There are related books by the same author, but this one seemed most to the point. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Acadie

[wintermom]

I haven't read the whole thread, so my comments are only based on the OP. I get the feeling that pleasing others (extended family) is more important than protecting the OP's own children. The comments about "deeply hurting" extended family by staying in a hotel is backwards, as it means that the OP's kids will be hurt.

And why is staying in a hotel going to "deeply hurt" anyone? If a mature adult cannot understand that others may want their own space while visiting, then are they really people worth spending a ton of time and energy with? 

Going forward with extended family visits, were it myself and my kids, I'd visit mostly on my own, and allow my kids to decide when to visit. I'd accommodate my own family's needs (my kids and my dh) well above anyone else's "potentially deeply hurt" feelings. My dh and I do not accommodate emotional manipulation from extended family. Together we set boundries for ourselves and our kids. No one has the "right" to make us or our kids stay anywhere we don't want to or visit for longer than we desire.

Edited December 18, 2023 by wintermom

[teachermom2834]

I think there is alot of value in what someone said upthread that they will be mad regardless of what you do. Once you recognize that they will be mad/offended no matter how you play it, it gets easier to adjust it to at least make it easier on your own end. 
 

My own dad, who is local so I don’t have to have extended visits with, is super sensitive and grumpy and just irritable and offended by everything. I try to placate him because often it is the easiest thing to do, but occasionally when I have to do something that is going to make him mad I just remind myself he always ends up mad anyway. Seriously, some years I have gone to great lengths to make sure a holiday is just the way he wants it and he is still grumpy. So once I realized that he is always mad at something and I really can’t change any of that, it does make it easier to do what I need to do. 
 

Then, I get to do what is best for my family and we are all happier which just makes things better overall. In the rare occasion he doesn’t end up mad it is just a sweet bonus for everyone and I didn’t go to any ridiculous length to make it happen. I do have to sometimes step back and remind myself “hey…he is always grumpy at Christmas so he will be mad no matter what time we eat.” I still have to reframe it for myself, it is a hard habit to break always trying to please someone. But it doesn’t work anyway!

[Terabith]

This isn't a long term solution, but I think the current plan for the next visit is we are going to Carbondale, Illinois, for the eclipse in April.  The eclipse is on Monday.  We will leave here (Roanoke) on Friday around 1 pm, after my preschool day is over, and this will allow the high school and college kids to attend morning classes.  We will drive to my parents' house in Jackson, TN on Friday, and get there late.  We will stay at their house.  I'm not going to introduce a hotel because this is going to be so quick and also we're spending a fortune on a crappy hotel for the eclipse.  (Like a real fortune.  Even booking a year in advance.) 

We will get up Saturday morning, spend the morning with my folks and have lunch with my parents and sister's family.  Maybe see an aunt or two, one if she's still alive, and the other if her crappy sleep schedule makes it convenient.  We will spend maybe 6 hours with them, and then leave early afternoon to drive the three hours up to Carbondale.  We'll visit with my friends there on Saturday night/ Sunday, see the eclipse Monday, and then drive probably to Knoxville on Monday night and home the rest of the way on Tuesday.  I wish we could get home in time for work/ school on Tuesday, but I don't think eclipse traffic or my driving stamina will permit me to do that all in one shot.  

It won't be super satisfying for my parents, but we'll all lay eyes on each other; they'll get to see even the oldest grandchild, but my kids can handle that short of a visit.  

The next time we go for longer, we'll look at hotels, and I think the days of going and spending a week may be over, although to be honest, it's really hard for me to drive there and back, and I need time to recover, but I'll see what I can do about that.  Is there PT for long distance driving?  I need new glasses too, but I've been putting that off for a zillion reasons.

[Kanin]

37 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I think the days of going and spending a week may be over

I can't think of anyone I could visit for a whole week, even staying in a hotel. No no no. I don't think most people thrive with their schedules changed for an entire week, especially when you have to consider other people's needs, too. Growing up, my mom always had a strict two-night rule for visiting. 

[fairfarmhand]

46 minutes ago, Terabith said:

This isn't a long term solution, but I think the current plan for the next visit is we are going to Carbondale, Illinois, for the eclipse in April.  The eclipse is on Monday.  We will leave here (Roanoke) on Friday around 1 pm, after my preschool day is over, and this will allow the high school and college kids to attend morning classes.  We will drive to my parents' house in Jackson, TN on Friday, and get there late.  We will stay at their house.  I'm not going to introduce a hotel because this is going to be so quick and also we're spending a fortune on a crappy hotel for the eclipse.  (Like a real fortune.  Even booking a year in advance.) 

We will get up Saturday morning, spend the morning with my folks and have lunch with my parents and sister's family.  Maybe see an aunt or two, one if she's still alive, and the other if her crappy sleep schedule makes it convenient.  We will spend maybe 6 hours with them, and then leave early afternoon to drive the three hours up to Carbondale.  We'll visit with my friends there on Saturday night/ Sunday, see the eclipse Monday, and then drive probably to Knoxville on Monday night and home the rest of the way on Tuesday.  I wish we could get home in time for work/ school on Tuesday, but I don't think eclipse traffic or my driving stamina will permit me to do that all in one shot.  

It won't be super satisfying for my parents, but we'll all lay eyes on each other; they'll get to see even the oldest grandchild, but my kids can handle that short of a visit.  

The next time we go for longer, we'll look at hotels, and I think the days of going and spending a week may be over, although to be honest, it's really hard for me to drive there and back, and I need time to recover, but I'll see what I can do about that.  Is there PT for long distance driving?  I need new glasses too, but I've been putting that off for a zillion reasons.

We stopped the week long visits when my kids started getting into middle school and had busier schedules. It's a long time for me as a daughter/daughter in law, I know it would have gotten on my mother in law's nerves. I can't imagine how that would drag on for my older teens/young adult kids. I think that it is perfectly acceptable to stop visiting for that long. 

 

[freesia]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

This isn't a long term solution, but I think the current plan for the next visit is we are going to Carbondale, Illinois, for the eclipse in April.  The eclipse is on Monday.  We will leave here (Roanoke) on Friday around 1 pm, after my preschool day is over, and this will allow the high school and college kids to attend morning classes.  We will drive to my parents' house in Jackson, TN on Friday, and get there late.  We will stay at their house.  I'm not going to introduce a hotel because this is going to be so quick and also we're spending a fortune on a crappy hotel for the eclipse.  (Like a real fortune.  Even booking a year in advance.) 

We will get up Saturday morning, spend the morning with my folks and have lunch with my parents and sister's family.  Maybe see an aunt or two, one if she's still alive, and the other if her crappy sleep schedule makes it convenient.  We will spend maybe 6 hours with them, and then leave early afternoon to drive the three hours up to Carbondale.  We'll visit with my friends there on Saturday night/ Sunday, see the eclipse Monday, and then drive probably to Knoxville on Monday night and home the rest of the way on Tuesday.  I wish we could get home in time for work/ school on Tuesday, but I don't think eclipse traffic or my driving stamina will permit me to do that all in one shot.  

It won't be super satisfying for my parents, but we'll all lay eyes on each other; they'll get to see even the oldest grandchild, but my kids can handle that short of a visit.  

The next time we go for longer, we'll look at hotels, and I think the days of going and spending a week may be over, although to be honest, it's really hard for me to drive there and back, and I need time to recover, but I'll see what I can do about that.  Is there PT for long distance driving?  I need new glasses too, but I've been putting that off for a zillion reasons.

That sounds like a good plan. For completely different reasons, I take visits to my mom one visit at a time—who comes, how long, where I stay, when. I think that’s common when are kids are teen to young adult 

Have you ever tried heated seats? I don’t know if it would work for your issue, but it changed my driving life. One of our cars has built in, full seat—back and bottom which is amazing, but we bought one that plugs in to the lighter for the other and it’s still good. 

[kathyl]

Yeah, a week makes for a long visit.  I quit doing that in my late 20's or early 30's?  Too much 'togetherness' was killing me ... and dc didn't care for it either.  Dh didn't seem to care, but he was always going somewhere and leaving me with the parents and our kids, so there's that ... 🤨 

Also, I think my parents quit making us go with them to visit the relatives when I was about 16yo or so.  

Btw, the hotel thing works both ways.  Now, whenever we go to visit any of our grown kids, WE stay in a hotel.  It's wonderful.  And dc prefer it that way, too.   

Edited December 19, 2023 by kathyl

[marbel]

My husband used to schedule our trips to his parents for 5-7 days to "amortize" the driving time. I finally convinced him that everyone was miserable and we had to drive anyway, so we cut the visit shorter. But in our case, he and I could take turns driving, it wasn't all on one person, so that helped. That also made it easier to take two days to drive. Same amount of time away from home, but less time in misery. 

[teachermom2834]

My 25 yo ds was just texting me telling me that he and his girlfriend and my 25 yo ds and his gf would like to come into town for new years and asked if there was room at the house for everyone to stay and if that was ok. I described the accommodations and told them they could stay if that was comfortable or they could stay somewhere else if that was more comfortable. Either is fine and I mean it. 
 

And really whatever makes everyone comfortable is what will make the most pleasant visit. It seemed like such a normal discussion and interaction. I am thankful and hope we can keep these lines of communication open. 
 

I absolutely will plan on staying in a hotel when we visit our adult kids. If they have plenty of room and we would truly be comfortable and it seems they really want us to stay we would but we will absolutely err on the side of a hotel. 

[Drama Llama]

16 minutes ago, marbel said:

My husband used to schedule our trips to his parents for 5-7 days to "amortize" the driving time. I finally convinced him that everyone was miserable and we had to drive anyway, so we cut the visit shorter. But in our case, he and I could take turns driving, it wasn't all on one person, so that helped. That also made it easier to take two days to drive. Same amount of time away from home, but less time in misery. 

Yeah, I sometimes think that it's ridiculous that I paid for all that gas and 2 nights in a hotel for my Thanksgiving visit to my mom where we literally spent a few hours with her.  But paying the same amount for misery makes even less sense.  

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

This isn't a long term solution, but I think the current plan for the next visit is we are going to Carbondale, Illinois, for the eclipse in April.  The eclipse is on Monday.  We will leave here (Roanoke) on Friday around 1 pm, after my preschool day is over, and this will allow the high school and college kids to attend morning classes.  We will drive to my parents' house in Jackson, TN on Friday, and get there late.  We will stay at their house.  I'm not going to introduce a hotel because this is going to be so quick and also we're spending a fortune on a crappy hotel for the eclipse.  (Like a real fortune.  Even booking a year in advance.) 

We will get up Saturday morning, spend the morning with my folks and have lunch with my parents and sister's family.  Maybe see an aunt or two, one if she's still alive, and the other if her crappy sleep schedule makes it convenient.  We will spend maybe 6 hours with them, and then leave early afternoon to drive the three hours up to Carbondale.  We'll visit with my friends there on Saturday night/ Sunday, see the eclipse Monday, and then drive probably to Knoxville on Monday night and home the rest of the way on Tuesday.  I wish we could get home in time for work/ school on Tuesday, but I don't think eclipse traffic or my driving stamina will permit me to do that all in one shot.  

It won't be super satisfying for my parents, but we'll all lay eyes on each other; they'll get to see even the oldest grandchild, but my kids can handle that short of a visit.  

The next time we go for longer, we'll look at hotels, and I think the days of going and spending a week may be over, although to be honest, it's really hard for me to drive there and back, and I need time to recover, but I'll see what I can do about that.  Is there PT for long distance driving?  I need new glasses too, but I've been putting that off for a zillion reasons.

I think that if you do this, you'll have a better sense of what might work next time.  I think this is a problem to solve like eating an elephant, one bite at a time. 

What parts hurt when you drive long distance? 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Drama Llama

[Carol in Cal.]

About that driving issue--I used to stagger out of my car, so stiff I could hardly straighten up.

Then I took a brief therapeutic restorative dance class from an Alexander Technique teacher, and her repeated injunctions to 'Bring your attention to...' (ie to this or that body part) led me to pay more attention everywhere in life.  This made me realize that I was tensing my back, hands, and shoulders a great deal while driving.  So I focussed on trying to stop doing that--it was unnecessary, and an unconscious habit.  What a difference this made in how I arrived!

[Terabith]

20 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

 

What parts hurt when you drive long distance? 

 

When I drive, I am very tense, even if I am consciously reminding myself to relax, and my trapezium and neck spasm and continue spasming for a long time.  My trapezium (upper back/ neck area) is super messed up.  I've done PT and stuff, which helped, but any kind of stress makes it flare up.

[Clarita]

When I visit my extended family it's a minimum 2 week deal. 13 hour flight later I'm going to make a vacation out of it. We stay at a hotel (or short term rental). We hang out with family some, and we also take a vacation there. My family lives in a large city though so maybe that's a different dynamic. I wouldn't imagine traveling for 13 hours just to do something for 2 hours and coming back.

[katilac]

6 hours ago, Terabith said:

 Is there PT for long distance driving?  

Look up car yoga. 

[Acadie]

For one of my pregnancies I received strict instructions to drive no more than 90 minutes at a time, then to walk 15 min before driving again. Not 15 minutes total for a rest stop--15 minutes just to walk, with additional time for getting fuel, going to the bathroom, etc. 

Doing this definitely increased the driving time for road trips, but I didn't feel stiff and sore at all. Like--not in the least! I couldn't believe it, because I typically get all knotted up on extended drives.

I'm not sure if walking would help you specifically, but I do wonder if setting aside significant time on the drive to stretch, walk, do yoga or whatever might ease some of the pain and discomfort you experience with long drives.

May you find what works for you, physically and emotionally!

[TravelingChris]

On 12/18/2023 at 7:33 AM, Faith-manor said:

I would also like to say that we are finding that in general with many elderly people, staying with them just doesn't work not even if they are the nicest people in the world generally. The reason for this is that so many of them can't really manage a lot of change to their routine, and their routines can be quite strange. For instance, my paternal grandfather could not fall to sleep before midnight for most of the final years of his life. He was also an early riser, about 5:30 am for most of his adulting years due to his jobs. It was like he had an internal alarm clock that couldn't be changed. Since this was not enough sleep for him, he took a 1-4 pm nap every, single day. My grandmother, a very dear person to me, demanded that the house be kept deathly quiet for his nap period. If you were staying with them, you couldn't even have a conversation anywhere in the home. Go outside, even in inclement weather. 3 hrs every single day. That really isn't very guest friendly, and most certainly not for kids. Then he would be up and things would be normal, but if you put your own kids to bed at 8 or 9 pm, Mr. Hard of Hearing, was still going to have the t.v. blaring at air raid siren volume until 11 pm when his last evening show went off. He was quiet until 11:45, and then made a helluva racket in the kitchen getting his nightly bowl of grapenuts cereal before going to bed. I have never heard a human so loud just getting cereal. One of the guest rooms was just off the kitchen so if you were sleeping, you were also waking up now.

I have witnessed all kinds of similar mayhem and strange schedules among the elderly, and frankly, that is all perfectly normal when bodies get that old, frail, and sensitive. No judgment there. My day is coming, for sure. It is just that this is often so very not easy on guests or just not doable especially with kids. And disruptions to these little routines can be very disconcerting to the elder. My mother in law hosted her eldest grandson and his s.o. over five days at Thanksgiving. These are the sweetest people, easy peasy guests in the grand scheme of things, quiet as mice, and super helpful (my nephew did a whole bunch of things for her around the house that was on her "honey do" list for my dh). When they left, she was utterly exhausted and said she didn't know how much longer she could host people. She just can't handle things being different, and just trying to converse more than usual, or think about meal times every day, or head to the bathroom and someone is in there....she just doesn't have the band width anymore.

So it is also okay to simply pull the plug on these things even when relationships are otherwise good, and go get hotels or vbro, or stay with different family members even if at first, it ruffles feathers. Blame it on yourself if you need to, "I have developed some sleep disturbances, and it will be very difficult for you if my insomnia kicks in and I am making noise and pacing the floor all night." Something like that. Make yourself out to be a terrible intrusion on their life, and a potential problem if you prefer to try to diffuse the tension by making sure they see you as the source of the issue and not them.

i HAD TO TELL MY BROTHER THAT HE HAD TO STAY AT A HOTELFOR A VISIT AFTE MY BACK SURGERY A FEW YEARS AGO.  mY OLDER DD1 DIDN'T GET IT.  i WAS NOT IN GOOD SHAPE.  aND MY MY BROTHER IS ocd AND THAT BUGS ME SO MUCH,  bECAUSE HE THINKS HE IS SO HEALTHY.

[Dmmetler]

19 hours ago, Terabith said:

This isn't a long term solution, but I think the current plan for the next visit is we are going to Carbondale, Illinois, for the eclipse in April.  The eclipse is on Monday.  We will leave here (Roanoke) on Friday around 1 pm, after my preschool day is over, and this will allow the high school and college kids to attend morning classes.  We will drive to my parents' house in Jackson, TN on Friday, and get there late.  We will stay at their house.  I'm not going to introduce a hotel because this is going to be so quick and also we're spending a fortune on a crappy hotel for the eclipse.  (Like a real fortune.  Even booking a year in advance.) 

We will get up Saturday morning, spend the morning with my folks and have lunch with my parents and sister's family.  Maybe see an aunt or two, one if she's still alive, and the other if her crappy sleep schedule makes it convenient.  We will spend maybe 6 hours with them, and then leave early afternoon to drive the three hours up to Carbondale.  We'll visit with my friends there on Saturday night/ Sunday, see the eclipse Monday, and then drive probably to Knoxville on Monday night and home the rest of the way on Tuesday.  I wish we could get home in time for work/ school on Tuesday, but I don't think eclipse traffic or my driving stamina will permit me to do that all in one shot.  

It won't be super satisfying for my parents, but we'll all lay eyes on each other; they'll get to see even the oldest grandchild, but my kids can handle that short of a visit.  

The next time we go for longer, we'll look at hotels, and I think the days of going and spending a week may be over, although to be honest, it's really hard for me to drive there and back, and I need time to recover, but I'll see what I can do about that.  Is there PT for long distance driving?  I need new glasses too, but I've been putting that off for a zillion reasons.

That sounds like a good plan. 
 

It won’t help for comments ABOUT transition in general, but I've noticed with my niblings and with my BK's extended family that the older generation seem to be willfully blind to physical changes. Like even my college student nephew who went on blockers at 13 and T at 16 gets comments about what a pretty girl he is. 

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

That sounds like a good plan. 
 

It won’t help for comments ABOUT transition in general, but I've noticed with my niblings and with my BK's extended family that the older generation seem to be willfully blind to physical changes. Like even my college student nephew who went on blockers at 13 and T at 16 gets comments about what a pretty girl he is. 

Yeah, one of the reasons I have not told my mom about my kid’s top surgery (and I think that’s the limit of planned transition) is that I think there’s a decent chance they might not notice or at least not say anything, and why put us all through the drama of telling if I don’t have to?  And also I feel like it’s not really my information to share unless my kid asks me to.  

[dsmith]

I'm stressed out just reading your post - that's a lot to deal with. My son is on the spectrum, and when he was younger the family just didn't understand his issues with sound, food, textures, etc. It wasn't until he had a nervous breakdown in 2nd grade that they mostly got it. They didn't realize how overwhelming sounds can be for him. Neither did we until then. I mean we knew, but didn't realize the impact on his mental health. Thankfully my mom was the one person who understood after dealing with some of my siblings/step-siblings with their own various diagnoses. We only host nowadays. I know that's not possible in your circumstances, but it's the only way ds can handle the holidays and family events. He has his room that he can escape to, and he often will eat in his room and come down for dessert. If we can't host, dh will attend unless ds decides he can handle a short visit. He can do smaller gatherings for maybe 2 - 3 hours outside of the home, but that's it. If we were to travel a hotel room or a house rental would be an absolute necessity for his mental health. I hope you are able to figure out a way to make this visit bearable for your family! And sometimes we need to upset others for the wellbeing of our kids, but it's not an easy thing to deal with. 

[Terabith]

5 hours ago, dsmith said:

I'm stressed out just reading your post - that's a lot to deal with. My son is on the spectrum, and when he was younger the family just didn't understand his issues with sound, food, textures, etc. It wasn't until he had a nervous breakdown in 2nd grade that they mostly got it. They didn't realize how overwhelming sounds can be for him. Neither did we until then. I mean we knew, but didn't realize the impact on his mental health. Thankfully my mom was the one person who understood after dealing with some of my siblings/step-siblings with their own various diagnoses. We only host nowadays. I know that's not possible in your circumstances, but it's the only way ds can handle the holidays and family events. He has his room that he can escape to, and he often will eat in his room and come down for dessert. If we can't host, dh will attend unless ds decides he can handle a short visit. He can do smaller gatherings for maybe 2 - 3 hours outside of the home, but that's it. If we were to travel a hotel room or a house rental would be an absolute necessity for his mental health. I hope you are able to figure out a way to make this visit bearable for your family! And sometimes we need to upset others for the wellbeing of our kids, but it's not an easy thing to deal with. 

I think a big part of the issue is my oldest operated completely fine and presented as totally neurotypical until they were 15, when the noise of public high school gave them a nervous breakdown.  It was really hard for me to realize how completely things had changed, because it was so sudden and because they had operated at such a high level and with no outward signs of strain for their entire childhood.  

My youngest has always had issues, but honestly, post puberty, she functions very, very well.  Honestly at a much higher level than oldest, despite youngest's learning disabilities.  Her autism is very, very subtle, and so it's very easy for people to overlook my kids as having genuine disabilities.